This Good Word With Steve Wiens

You win. Rabbi Alan is back on the show, and he's talking Midrash, which is an expansive way of viewing the Scriptures that will most likely shatter your brains (in the very best way possible). If you're new to the podcast, Rabbi Alan is one of my mentors - and one of the greatest influences in my life as far as how I see God and especially how I read the Bible. He's funny, brilliant, and he's been on the podcast six times, so he's no slouch. I love him and you will, too. And hey, I'm doing a LIVE PODCAST on Friday night, August 10th at Art House North in St. Paul, where I'll be taking the concepts we talked about in this episode even further, so grab your tickets soon. I'll be joined by my friend Shawn Smucker, author of The Day the Angels Fell and the follow-up that just came out, The Edge of Over There. I'll also be joined by my friends Tov Music (Steve and Heidi Haines), who are finishing up their first studio record, and it's some of the best music I've heard in a very long. Enjoy the podcast then go grab those tickets! In it together.

Jen Hatmaker is hilarious. And really, really courageous. I unabashedly love her. We talked about her writing, the Enneagram (of course), and her courageous journey in and out of the evangelical subculture. What else can I say? It's Jen Hatmaker! Enjoy.

Aundi Kobler is a therapist who specializes in helping people overcome trauma, especially in helping people understand how trauma is stored in the body differently than other memories. "According to leading researchers like Bessel van der Kolk and Peter Levine," Kolber writes, "trauma occurs when a person’s natural threat response is activated in their body, but their ability to cope becomes overwhelmed and ultimately stuck in a hyper/hypo vigilant mode. Thus, the traumatic event(s) become “stuck” in a person’s body instead of being stored as a normal memory. This inability to properly integrate the event into the narrative of their life is what results in symptoms such as flashbacks, disturbing thoughts, physical ailments or emotional volatility." This was such a fascinating conversation - both in terms of understanding bigger traumatic experiences but also smaller ones, which might happen several times in a given day. It was also really helpful for those of us who are trying to support someone who has been through a significant trauma. Enjoy the podcast! You can get in touch with Aundi by checking out her website, following her on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook, and also by reading her published articles below: Relevant Magazine: 3 Ways to Support Someone Recovering From Trauma When the Wound is Healing Huffington Post: Learning to Celebrate in the Middle of Pain Resources: The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk

Jamie Wright is a writer and speaker best known for her snarky faith and lifestyle blog, Jamie the Very Worst Missionary. She recently published her first book, The Very Worst Missionary: A Memoir or Whatever. It's gorgeous, raw, hilarious, and deeply moving. If you're losing your faith, leaving a religious system that no longer works, or if you can no longer pretend that you believe what you actually do not believe, you're going to love Jamie's book and also this conversation. You can find out more about Jamie here, and you can also follow her on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Enjoy.

When we're talking about race, diversity, inclusion, and white supremacy, language really matters. In this episode, I interviewed Daniel Hill, author of the fabulous new book White Awake: An Honest Look at What it Means to be White. One of the most helpful distinctions he draws out is the importance of understanding the narrative of racial difference. Race is a social construct created by human beings to assign different levels of human value onto people on the basis of differences. This profoundly evil construct is what enabled slavery. It enabled White Christians in the south to see no problem in watching a black man get lynched at the same park where they were enjoying their church picnic. Daniel is the pastor of River City Community Church, a vibrant, multi-ethnic church in the Humboldt Park neighborhood of Chicago, and he's also the author of 10:10 Life to the Fullest. You can also connect with Daniel on Twitter. Enjoy!

Micha Boyett is the author of Found: A Story of Questions, Grace, & Everyday Prayer. She's also a blogger, wife and mom with a Master of Fine Arts in Poetry. Oh - and she's a former youth pastor. I met Micha at the Festival of Faith and Writing last spring, and after talking with her just once, I knew I had to have her on the podcast. We talked about a lot of things, but what I found most fascinating was how she reframed motherhood as monastical - instead of just doing the daily grind of diapers, bottles, playdates, and losing yourself completely, she began to see it as a way of approaching God through prayer. I loved our conversation so much that we didn't even get to the main thing I wanted to talk to her about in the first place, so we're trying to schedule a part 2 with Micha. I wanted to talk to her about her youngest son, Ace (which is the BEST name ever) because he has Down Syndrome. Micha is trying to change the cultural conversation about what it's like to have children with Down Syndrome, so she and two other moms who also have kids with Down Syndrome have a killer new podcast called The Lucky Few in which they talk all about it - so check it out! You can read Micha's writing on her blog, and you can also connect with her on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram. Enjoy!

Karen Gonzalez is an advocate and an ally for immigrants and refugees. She works with World Relief, a nonprofit which helps immigrants and refugees navigate their way through the difficult waters of living in the United States. We talked all about the challenges that immigrants and refugees face these days in the U.S., we talked about the recent family separation crisis facing immigrants, and we talked about ways that we can get involved to promote change. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Karen's new book is coming out next spring, so make sure to keep an eye out for it. I can't wait to read it. Enjoy! Resources we talked about: Fact Sheet about Families Being Separated at the Border Love Undocumented Welcoming the Stranger How to find out which Congressperson you should call World Relief Get in touch with Karen: Website Twitter Instagram

Liz Ditty is a speaker and writer trained through Sustainable Faith as a spiritual director. She loves encouraging others who have heard the wrong story about God to take their questions and hurts straight to God. She's a regular teacher at Westgate Church in the Silicon Valley and lives with her husband and two children in San Jose. Liz's new book, God's Many Voices is available for pre-order, and you can get in touch with Liz on her website. Enjoy!

For this week's episode, I did something I have never done before (at least I can't remember doing it) - I am replaying a sermon that I recently preached. It's called Life on Trial, and in it, I imagine that the biblical concept of "eternal life" is on trial. What does it mean? Who gets to define it? What does Christianity say about it and what does Jesus say about it? And why are those two answers different? Hope you enjoy this, my friends. If you'd like to hear other sermons from our church, go here.

Sonder is the realization that each random passerby is living a life as vivid and complex as your own. Sonderlust is the realization that you are envious of those random passersby because you assume that they are living better lives than you are. It is also the name of one of my favorite podcasts, hosted by today's guest, my new best friend Sarah Heath. She's a pastor, a speaker who travels all over the United States, and she wrote a great book called What's Your Story. Sonderlust the Podcast explores the journey Sarah is taking after accepting a challenge from her best guy friend John: A year of figuring out exactly how it is she wants to live her life. John gave Sarah four unique challenges, all of which she explores episode-by-episode. You have to love your job. You need to go on dates. You have to love where you live. You must find friends outside of your work circle. I loved my conversation with Sarah - she's funny, honest, and wise. Take a listen and then go check out her podcast, but it's a serial podcast, so you have to start with episode one. You can follow Sarah on Instagram, Twitter, or by checking out her website. Enjoy!

Matt Bays is one of those author friends who I consider near and dear, although we've never met in real life. I consider his wisdom to be hard-won, a real gift for the rest of us. His journey has included so much pain, and yet he still finds a way to be hopeful. Enjoy, my friends.

In part 1, I wanted to help you keep perspective on the good work that you're doing - whatever it is - and to help you remember that all good work takes time. I hate that there aren't too many satisfying metrics in the "slog time" - those moments where you just have to keep going: whether it's writing, editing, teaching, hammering, cooking, driving, or tutoring. I also talked about drilling down and trying to name what it is that you're building - beyond just the book, movie, bakery, or curriculum. What bigger thing are you hoping will happen when that smaller thing -the book, movie, poem, recipe, building, business, or whatever - is done. In part 2, I talked about some examples of times that I've had to keep perspective when I've missed deadlines, when I get jealous of other authors, or when I'm tempted to do somebody else's thing rather than just keep working on building that thing that I'm building. I talked about the critical importance of having a "cutting room floor" file. And I talked about how to know if your idea is still fuzzy, and also how to know if it's ready to pitch to someone. Enjoy!

In this episode, I wanted to help you keep perspective on the good work that you're doing - whatever it is - and to help you remember that all good work takes time. I hate that there aren't too many satisfying metrics in the "slog time" - those moments where you just have to keep going: whether it's writing, editing, teaching, hammering, cooking, driving, or tutoring. I also talked about drilling down and trying to name what it is that you're building - beyond just the book, movie, bakery, or curriculum. What bigger thing are you hoping will happen when that smaller thing -the book, movie, poem, recipe, building, business, or whatever - is done. Enjoy! Part two will come out in two days, in which I'll talk more about some examples of times that I've had to keep perspective when I've missed deadlines, when I get jealous of other authors, or when I'm tempted to do somebody else's thing rather than just keep working on building that thing that I'm building.

Adam Hamilton is the pastor of Church of the Ressurection in Kansas City, Missouri, and also the author of several books, including his newest, titled Unafraid: Living with Courage and Hope in Uncertain Times. We had a really interesting, practical conversation about fear and how to deal with it in our lives in a way that is productive rather than paralyzing. You can find out more about Adam's work, including some of the resources he mentioned at the end of the show on his website. Enjoy!

No matter how big or small your creative effort is, if there comes a time when it gets out there into the world, there will inevitably be "the day after" the big event. What happens on the day after? How do you feel and what do you do? In this episode, I talked about the four stages of the creative process, from idea to preparation to actually doing it to the day after, and I covered the range of emotions you feel during each stage. I recorded this episode especially for my friend Aaron, who is planting a church this Sunday, and has been through stages one and two, and is about to go through stages three and four. I hope this is helpful for any of you who are doing anything creative! At the break in the podcast, I mentioned Author School, which is a course led by Rachelle Gardner, who has helped more than 150 authors bring their idea to published form. She's insightful, super helpful, and this course is great for anyone who is trying to get their manuscript in front of a publisher or is trying to put together a proposal, or a query letter, or is trying to decide whether to self-publish or go the traditional publishing route. For more information, check out Author School.

In this episode, I almost lost my voice. Ha! My passion level for this subject is high to quite high. I tried to do several things: 1. I talked Ressurection - it's holy week. 2. I talked about why losing your faith is actually good. If we are growing and honest at all, we end up losing our faith many times. It's what happens to healthy people. And then some of us keep following the faith/God/Spirit where it is going. 3. I talked about the vital importance of following where it goes, how to do that, what not to be afraid of, what's normal, and what to expect from other people when we do. Whew! This was a fun one. Enjoy.

One of my dearest friends, Steve Haines, interviewed me on this episode, and it was incredible. He asks such probing, spacious questions. We talked Star Wars, pastoring, spiritual practices, childhood, and Mary Martin Wiens even made a surprise appearance (honestly - we didn't even know she was going to show up) at the end... and she basically stole the show. This one was so much fun. Enjoy.

Friends! I've been waiting to interview one of my dearest friends, Steve Haines, for a really long time, and it finally happened. We talked art, creativity, life, protest, faith, and his new project, Tov Music. At the end, you'll hear a scratch track from one of the songs on his new record, and it's so very good. I hope you fall in love with Steve like I have. He's one of the best. Next week, you'll hear Haines interview Wiens. So fun! Enjoy! To find out more about Steve's new project, visit Tov Music.

Most people that I talk to feel guilty about their spiritual practices. They feel like they should be doing more, or doing better at them, and because they're failing, God must be really disappointed with them. Let's quit that nonsense. In this episode, I introduced some simple, really enjoyable, momentary spiritual practices that could help you attune yourself to God by finding some practices that help you enjoy God. I really hope this is helpful, and I'd love to hear from you if it was! Have a great day, my friends.

Have you ever felt like you just can't work on one more thing about yourself without totally imploding? Maybe it's time to quit trying so hard to smooth out all the rough edges. Maybe some things are just a part of the package that is you - and they're not going to change. What if you could give yourself the freedom to let some of those rough things stay rough? How do you know if that rough part is something you need to work on or something you can just let go? How do you know who to listen to? How do you know who to blow off? This one was a fun one, friends. I'm a firm believer that you can't work on everything, and that you just need to let some rough edges stay rough. Enjoy!

In this episode, I talked about getting in touch with the reality that you really don't see as well as you think you do (relax, neither do I). I told a story about when an undocumented immigrant spoke at our church. I also told a story about a time when Jesus essentially said everybody was blind - except for a blind guy. Cards face up on the table: I really do want to see more than I currently see. I want to see through the lenses of people who don't believe what I believe, who don't look like me, and who have widely different perspectives. So I talked about one way to get there. Enjoy the podcast, my friends.

Oh, my sweet Lord. This is one of my favorite episodes. Laura Parrott Perry is the author of a brand new book called She Wrote it Down: How at Secret-Keeper Became a Storyteller. It's penetrating, gorgeous, raw, hopeful, and at times hilarious. I loved it. Laura says that we all live inside our stories and we make homes of them. But when our stories become secrets, those homes become prisons. If you have a story you are not telling anyone, anywhere, in any way - that is not privacy, it's secrecy. The difference between privacy and secrecy is simple: Shame. A lifelong secret-keeper, Laura Parrott Perry began the process of transforming into a storyteller when the dark secrets she'd been carrying around became too heavy and her life began to collapse under the weight of them. Sexual abuse, eating disorders, alcohol, perfectionism... Those secrets were all Laura's story that was making itself known when she was unwilling to tell it. Bit by bit, story by story, Laura began to shine a light into all those dark corners and tell the truth. She surrendered to the facts of her life and her past, and in doing so began to write a beautiful new future. Fair Warning: This episode contains stories of childhood sexual abuse. You guys, this conversation was so beautiful, so hopeful, and so honest. If your story is making itself known in any unsettling way because you are keeping it a secret, I hope Laura's words help. Laura is also the co-founder of a nonprofit called Say it Survivor, which is committed to raise awareness and remove the stigma surrounding sexual abuse by telling our story shamelessly and encouraging other survivors to do the same. You can get in touch with Laura through her website, Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. Enjoy the podcast!

Scott Perkins was on staff at a large church, had a marriage that looked like it was thriving from the outside. But on the inside, he was exhausted and looking for an escape hatch. So he resigned his position, separated from his wife, and started a new relationship. That's how his book Tree of Lies begins. Scott went on a long journey where he eventually discovered that focusing on behaviors and trying hard to get it right is not the path to God, it's the path to burnout. In this conversation, we covered lots of ground: we talked about true self and false self, freedom and rest, and how to get honest about your actual life. Enjoy. Links we discussed on the show: Tree of Lies book The Deeper Journey by Robert Mulholland His Worksheet to assess your life Tree of Lies Website

Just in the last few years, it seems as though the tide of culture, in general, is sweeping everybody away from their true, essential selves and into the quagmire of tribe and groupthink. It's becoming harder and harder to know who you are, what you think, and how you feel. It's becoming harder and harder to spend time on what's genuinely important. During this episode, I shared some stories, practices, and questions that might help you to regain a sense of your essential self. These include learning to say the shortest, truest thing, knowing how to identify toxic relationships (and giving yourself permission to set boundaries and even leave them), and learning to simply sit with the Divine and experience God's love, who accepts you as you are and not as you should be. Enjoy.

This episode is for anyone who has jettisoned a theological framework that couldn't hold your deep questions and your desire to see an integrated thread of seemingly different traditions. Danny Coleman grew up in the charismatic stream of Evangelical Christianity, where his particular church put sole emphasis on that future moment when all will someday be made new by Jesus at his second coming. Danny kept wondering if there was more, and it led him to a house church, then the Quakers, then... this book. It is refreshing and hopeful. Coleman's view combines Christian contemplation, Buddhist meditation, and process theology in developing a transformative and inclusive view of God, each other, and the universe. This episode will stretch your thinking, most likely. Enjoy! Connect with Daniel by heading over to his website, or by viewing this brief video or this one (where he discusses process theology). You can buy his book here.

What difference are you making in the world, and how can you know if you're wasting your time? Who are you to think that you have influence over people in a way that might make their life better? How do you know your own sphere of influence? How can you tell where it starts and where it stops? How can you grow healthier in the way that you view influence? In this episode, I tackled the dirty word "influence." I believe you can be wrecked by constantly wanting more and more influence, always hungry for the affirmation that it never really gives. But I also believe there is a way to think about influence that is healthy, necessary and life-giving. Enjoy. Books & Podcasts I mentioned: The Typology Podcast with Ian Morgan Cron The Road Back to You Podcast with Suzanne Stabile and Ian Morgan Cron The Road Back to You book by Suzanne Stabile and Ian Morgan Cron The Sacred Enneagram by Chris Heuertz

Sean Palmer is the teaching pastor of Ecclesia Houston, a diverse church in the heart of downtown Houston. Ecclesia has been a huge part of the recovery efforts after Hurricane Harvey nearly destroyed the city, raising more than $2 million dollars and hosting volunteers from all around the world, putting them to work at rebuilding. Sean and I talked a lot about the church - particularly how it can be a beloved community in the world once again. His new book, Unarmed Empire: In Search of Beloved Community, is a powerful message of hope about the church in 2018 and beyond. You can get in touch with Sean on Facebook and Twitter, and by listening to his podcast, Not So Black and White. Enjoy.

Steve Saccone is a pioneer in the field of unrestricted education and leadership development. For more than a decade, he has partnered with churches nationwide, as well as globally, to design and launch innovative internship programs called Protégé. His work in and with local churches has equipped many to develop transformational leaders and more effective leadership pipelines. He has written several books, including Relational Intelligence, Protégé, The Protege Playbook, and his latest one, Talking About God: Honest Conversations About Spirituality. I've known Steve for more than a decade, and his compassion for people shines brightly in this conversation, and also in this book. Please check out his website for more information, and follow him on Facebook and Twitter. Enjoy!

Rabbi Alan is back! Well, sort of. It's been so long since I've had him on that I needed to resurrect this brilliant episode that we recorded last Christmas. Because - maybe you missed it then, or you are new around here. Either way, you're going to love Rabbi Alan. Enjoy.

I met Ash Gallagher in southern California, but that's not where she lives. She's a correspondent and producer working and living in the middle east, covering stories in Iraq, Israel, and Palestine. Our conversation was broad-ranging - we talked about the effect that President Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is having on Palestinians, and we talked about the heroic spirit of the Iraqi people. She's knowledgeable, gritty, and hopeful. Enjoy! You can get in touch with Ash by checking out her website or by following her on Instagram. Other resources mentioned in this episode: Rabbis For Human Rights Lynne Hybels Preemptive Love Coalition

Inhale, exhale. Waking, sleeping.Working, resting. Giving, receiving. Day, night. Grabbing hold of, letting go. Confronting, forgiving. All of life is based on Sine Waves - we go up, we come down. Advent especially is a time to recognize those places where we've gotten stuck and are no longer moving through the regular rhythms. It's a time to cry out in desperation. It's also a time to receive comfort from the God who actually cares. Enjoy.

So what is the Eucharist? Maybe you call it the Lord's Supper, or Communion, or Holy Communion, or the Common Table, or something else entirely. Maybe you celebrate it daily or weekly at Mass. Maybe you celebrate it monthly at church. Maybe you don't think about it or celebrate it at all. Well, it's one of my very favorite things. To practice and also to talk about. In this episode, I talked about the language and history of the Eucharist and about where it's found in the Scriptures. I told a story about a time that the Eucharist changed every atom in my body, and I offered a new way to think about practicing the Eucharist. Enjoy the podcast.

Where can we find truth in a culture where everybody feels lied to all the time? What happens to the psyche of a people who feel lied to? In this episode, I compared and contrasted three definitions of truth - and explored what it would look like to reimagine a culture full of people who graciously carried truth, not like a weapon, but like a firm place to stand in a culture where everything feels like quicksand and fog. Enjoy!

I have a strong suspicion that many of my listeners and readers are the kind of people who hate Christian cliches and who are tempted to throw away their faith because of troubling doctrines like... Hell - how can we possibly believe that a loving God could decide that anyone needs to spend an eternity of conscious torment? A Violent God - how does the God we seem to see in the Old Testament square with Jesus? The church - are we at the beginning of a new reformation? Sound like you? In this episode, I tackled all three, in the hopes that you might find a way to hang on to your faith, but also explore some new ways to see some old things. Some of the resources I mentioned in this episode: The Four Views of Hell Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God CrossVision Enjoy! My work: Purchase my new book, Whole: Restoring What's Broken in Me, You, and the Entire World here! I host a weekly podcast. I write books. I have a website. I am the pastor of a great little church. I am sometimes available to travel to hang with your tribe to help you all become more you. And yes, I do Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Oh, and if you’d like to stay up to date with my writing and events and such, you can subscribe to my email list. There. We’re all caught up.

I recorded this podcast on location in Little Falls, Minnesota, which is something that most podcasters only dream about. Ha! During this episode, I talked about five ways that I'm trying to tend to my own soul in this time of angst, extreme reaction, polarization, and overall insanity. I hope it helps you! It helped me to stop and think about some tangible ways to stop the insanity. Enjoy!

Kaitlin's brand new book, Glory Happening: Finding the Divine in Everyday Places is out, and it's gorgeous. You're going to want to get it RIGHT NOW. We live in a hurricane generation, and we're getting uprooted all. the. time. Kaitlin's book has a grounding effect; it is a slow kindness that will spread all throughout your being. Kaitlin is a Native American writer, teacher, and worship leader. You can get in touch with her on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and on her website, where you can read her blog and book her for a speaking event. Enjoy!

A pastor for almost two decades, Carol Howard Merritt as served Presbyterian (USA) churches in the swamps of Cajun Louisiana, a bayside village in Rhode Island, and an urban neighborhood of Washington, DC. Her committee and board work with the church includes serving as Moderator of the Special General Assembly Committee on the Nature of the Church in the 21st Century. This breadth and depth of practical experience informs her consultations with denominational governing bodies, seminaries, and local churches. The award-winning author of Tribal Church: Ministering to the Missing Generation, Reframing Hope: Vital Ministry in a New Generation, and Healing Spiritual Wounds: Reconnecting with a Loving God After Experiencing a Hurtful Church. Carol is a frequent contributor to books, websites, magazines, and journals. She is a regular writer at the Christian Century where her blog is hosted. Carol is an Adjunct Faculty member at Dubuque Theological Seminary and a Senior Consultant at Center for Progressive Renewal. She is a founder and host of UNCO, an open-space “unconference” that attracts church leaders across denominations and generations. Since 2011, a growing community of participants meets to generate ideas and develop plans for ministry. You can find Carol on Twitter, Facebook, and on her website.

I want to help you get started on that thing you've been dreaming about, but you haven't started yet. That book. That podcast. That piece of technology. That film. That nonprofit. That church. That piece of art. That piece of jewelry you want to put on Etsy. That small business. I've been creating things for my entire life, and if I could sit down with you and hear about the thing that you're dreaming about, I'd want to ask you the five questions that I talked about in this episode. And there is a special invitation at the end - because I believe this world is going to be better the sooner you get your idea out there in the real world. Enjoy, friends.

We waste time. We spend time. We wish time would slow down, or speed up. Mostly, we're all too aware that there's not enough time for everything we want to squeeze in. Time is a bully. But what if there was a different way to look at time? How can we capture those moments that are ripe with life, brimming with hope, and exploding with possibility? In this episode, I talk about two different kinds of time: Chronos time, and Kairos time. Enjoy.

Winn Collier is the pastor of All Souls Charlottesville, and he just wrote an "epistolary novel" called Love Big, Be Well: Letters To a Small Town Church, which I devoured in 3 hours. Winn is a pastor's pastor, with a sacramental, hopeful outlook on what it means to be faithful in an age that is being formed by the dumpster fire that is social media. This was the first time that Winn and I talked, but from the very beginning, I knew he was a kindred spirit. If you need to get a sense of hope, this is the person to listen to. Then go out and get this book - it feels like coming home. You can connect with Winn on his website, on Facebook, or Instagram. Music on today's episode is by Sara Groves (He's Always Been Faithful) Enjoy!

Nearly three hundred years ago, a young preacher by the name of Jonathan Edwards gave a sermon called "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God," which has aruably become the most influential sermon in the history of the Evangelical church. In it, he says “The bow of God's wrath is bent, and the arrow made ready on the string, and justice bends the arrow at your heart, and strains the bow, and it is nothing but the mere pleasure of God, and that of an angry God, without any promise or obligation at all, that keeps the arrow one moment from being made drunk with your blood.” Lovely image. Brian Zahnd is the founding pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri. When he was in his twenties, he was greatly affected by Edwards' vision of God as angry, violent and retributive. "What I did know was that I liked Jesus," Zahnd says, "But I was really scared of his Dad, the faceless white giant with obvious anger issues." In his brand new book, Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God: The Scandalous Truth of the Very Good News, Zahnd paints a very different, very biblical portrait of God: one that looks like Jesus. In it, he asks questions like: Is seeing God primarily as wrathful toward sinners true or biblical? Is fearing God a normal expected behavior? And where might the natural implications of this theological framework lead us? I loved this book, and I loved my conversation with Brian. Enjoy! Oh, and Here is the hilarious and poignant youtube video of "Fyodor Dostoyevsky" reviewing Brian's book. Music on today's episode is by Masss (Silver Collar)

Carlos A. Rodriquez was born and raised in Puerto Rico, and he's traveling there early next week with as many water filters as possible so that people can have access to clean water. Please join me by donating here so that Carlos can get thousands of water filters to people in need. They cost $13 apiece, so please consider being generous! Carlos is a pastor in North Carolina, and he's also the author of Simply Sonship, and his brand new book, Drop The Stones. Oh, and make sure to check out his podcast - he has had some amazing conversations with people like Brian Zahnd, Brian McLaren, Richard Rohr, and others. Carlos is hilarious, deep, gentle, and I loved my conversation with him. Enjoy! The music on today's episode is from Stefan Van Voorst (Halfway).

Let's be honest: Forgiveness is so very hard. I suppose that we all know that letting go would be of some value to our own personal well being; we just can't seem to be able to do it. Or maybe you've been to church and you were told that you "had to" forgive, which only heaped shame and guilt on your already burdened shoulders. So let's not do that. But let's talk about forgiveness. What isn't it? What is it? And how can we move towards it, even when it feels impossible? Enjoy. Music on today's episode is from my brilliant friend Matt Moberg (Tangled Up)

Richard Rohr is a Franciscan Friar, and the author of many bestselling books, including Everything Belongs, Falling Upward, and The Divine Dance. I met him last summer when a few other pastors spent a weekend with Father Richard at the Center for Action and Contemplation in Albuquerque, New Mexico. He was hilarious, wise, deep, generous with his time, and we all loved our time with him. So when I reached out to him to be on the podcast, and he graciously agreed, I couldn't wait to share him with you. He's one of the most influential theologians of the 21st century, and is way ahead of his time. Enjoy! Music on today's podcast is The Prayer of St. Francis, performed by Meredith Van Voorst.

This is the second time I've had Seth on the podcast - I love this guy. September is National Recovery month, so in this episode, we talked about how his understanding of sobriety has matured since Coming Clean: A Story of Faith came out two years ago. We talked about the foundational principle that God has created everything for good - including sex and beer. But we also talked about the pursuit of the deeper desire of intimacy with Christ that seems both elusive and right in front of our face. Enjoy the podcast! And then connect with Seth on his website, or by subscribing to his Tiny Letters, or by joining his Patreon Community. And make sure to grab a copy of Coming Clean. Music on today's episode is from Andy Gullahorn (Song: I Want to Be Well).

Emotions are so raw right now. White supremacy, CNN, Alt-Right, Alt-Left, Fake News, Fox & Friends, Antifa, President Trump, Nashville Statement... the list goes on and on. We all know what instant reaction looks like. What does dialogue look like? Is it possible to learn more about each other, even while holding wildly differing views? How do we give dignity to someone when we disagree? How do we learn from someone even if we don't change our mind? In this episode, I talk about tangible ways to enter into dialogue with "the other" - not necessarily to adopt their point of view, but to humanize them instead of caricaturing them. Enjoy. Music on this episode is from Stefan Van Voorst (song: Love Will Show its Face)

"When something shatters, the broken pieces find their way into hidden cracks and crevices. Then they end up inside of us, causing pain, especially to the most vulnerable. It’s easy to walk past the fragments of brokenness. We’re busy and overwhelmed. And maybe that particular piece of jagged glass hasn’t hurt you. But it is hurting someone. Last night, I watched a video showing a five-year-old boy in Aleppo, Syria, being pulled from a burning building and placed in an ambulance. His home had just been bombed, and he was covered in dust, stunned. The left side of his face was bloody, but he didn’t say a word. He didn’t cry. He simply touched his face with his hand and then wiped that blood on the orange seat where he sat. Who is going to pull the jagged glass out of his mouth? I’m a pastor, and I live in the suburbs, far away from buildings that get bombed. But I see jagged glass everywhere. Last Sunday at church, a dad came up to me with tears in his eyes. “He’s back in treatment,” he choked out, speaking of his youngest son and the addiction that keeps getting the best of him. I hugged this brokenhearted dad, prayed with him, and held him as he cried." That's from the preface of my second book, Whole: Restoring What is Broken in Me, You, and the Entire World, which just released on Tuesday, August 22nd. This one took a long time to write. Lots of editing, lots of head scratching in front of a blinking cursor. I felt lost a lot of the time. But I'm really, really proud of what came together. My good friend Becky read it several weeks ago, and we spent about an hour discussing what went into writing this book, and why it's important for this time in our world. This is part 2. You can listen to Part 1 here. Enjoy! Music from this week's episode is from Joel Hanson (song: Let Me Tell You Everything).

"When something shatters, the broken pieces find their way into hidden cracks and crevices. Then they end up inside of us, causing pain, especially to the most vulnerable. It’s easy to walk past the fragments of brokenness. We’re busy and overwhelmed. And maybe that particular piece of jagged glass hasn’t hurt you. But it is hurting someone. Last night, I watched a video showing a five-year-old boy in Aleppo, Syria, being pulled from a burning building and placed in an ambulance. His home had just been bombed, and he was covered in dust, stunned. The left side of his face was bloody, but he didn’t say a word. He didn’t cry. He simply touched his face with his hand and then wiped that blood on the orange seat where he sat. Who is going to pull the jagged glass out of his mouth? I’m a pastor, and I live in the suburbs, far away from buildings that get bombed. But I see jagged glass everywhere. Last Sunday at church, a dad came up to me with tears in his eyes. “He’s back in treatment,” he choked out, speaking of his youngest son and the addiction that keeps getting the best of him. I hugged this brokenhearted dad, prayed with him, and held him as he cried." That's from the preface of my second book, Whole: Restoring What is Broken in Me, You, and the Entire World, which is set to release on Tuesday, August 22nd. This one took a long time to write. Lots of editing, lots of head scratching in front of a blinking cursor. I felt lost a lot of the time. But I'm really, really proud of what came together. My good friend Becky read it several weeks ago, and we spent about an hour discussing what went into writing this book, and why it's important for this time in our world. Part 2 will be next week. Enjoy! Music from this week's episode is from Joel Hanson (song: Let Me Tell You Everything).

Esther Emery was lost: her marriage was a mess, her career had stalled out, and she didn't know what to do. So she decided to go off of the internet for a year. A YEAR. Then she wrote a book about that experience, and it's gorgeous, thoughtful, and challenging. Her book is called What Falls from the Sky: How I Disconnected from the Internet and Reconnected with the God Who Made the Clouds. It's so good. Here's what Sarah Bessey has to say about Esther's book: "You've never read a book like this one: frankly self-deprecating, boldly complex, intense, joyfully honest, devastatingly beautiful, heartbreakingly funny. What Falls From the Sky is about so much more than one woman's year without the internet, it's about marriage and choices, faith and rest, community and family, grief and hope, food and dirt, all the thigns that make our lives worth living. It is impossible to live an unexamined life with Esther as your friend. She is completely herself and so her story sings of freedom within the silence and even within the noise." I loved my conversation with Esther, and I think you will, too. Get in touch with Esther and all she does by visiting her website. The music on today's episode is from Nichole Nordeman (Beautiful Day).

I wasn't ready for how much I would enjoy my conversation with Science Mike - I've heard his voice a bunch on his own podcast (Ask Science Mike) and The Liturgists - his story is expansive, rich, beautiful, and hopeful. We talked about God, fundamentalism, Spiral Dynamics, America, and... Ghostbusters. Mike McHargue (better known as Science Mike) is an author, podcaster, and speaker who travels the world helping people understand the science of life's most profound experiences. His bestselling debut book, Finding God in the Waves, has helped thousands understand faith in the 21st century. Mike hosts Ask Science Mike, a weekly question and answer podcast helping hundreds of thousands explore the questions they've always been afraid to ask. He cohosts The Liturgists Podcast with his friend Michael Gungor. With over a million downloads per month, The Liturgists Podcast is reshaping how the spiritually homeless and frustrated relate to God. Mike frequently appears before sold-out audiences in New York, Chicago, and London. He's a favorite for churches, colleges, and conferences exploring the intersection of science and faith, with recent stops at The University of Georgia, Mars Hill Church (Grand Rapids), The Wild Goose Conference, and Google. Mike is a frequent contributor to RELEVANT magazine, Storyline, BioLogos, and The Washington Post. He's also a frequent guest on radio program and podcasts worldwide, including recent interviews on SiriusXM and NPR. Mike McHargue is one of those rare voices that can speak knowledgeably and authentically about both science and faith. He's a for anyone looking to dig deeper into doubt, atheism, and how God rewires our brains. Mike's mix of honesty, humor, and affability allow him to connect with remarkably diverse audiences.