The Trial Lawyers College Podcast

Join our special holiday interview with Valerie Malone as she discusses the season of giving. Valerie and Rafe exchange stories of good tidings and cheer.

TLC President John Sloan joins the podcast to examine the importance of taking time away from work to strengthen your skills of being a trial lawyer. John and Rafe discuss how participating in various TLC programs can grow and stretch you as a trial lawyer.

"It's integrity. If you don't have integrity in your thoughts, it's going to show. You're going to come across as fake, and nobody wants to be associated with that." Victoria Rusk, a mitigation specialist and investigator from Houston, TX, credits the Trial Lawyers College's In Defense of the Damned program with giving her the tools that enhance her civil case preparation and her strategy for consulting criminal defense attorneys. She helps clients understand what mitigation is and how the discovery and presentation of their background is critical to saving their life. The TLC method teaches that if the jury perceives that an attorney is disconnected from or embarrassed about their client, the jury could adopt that bias and judge the client harshly. Drawing from this, Rusk feels that assessing the case and witnesses help a lawyer better understand their clients' background. When attorneys genuinely empathize with their clients, they can present their client's mitigation story in a compelling way that helps jurors to overcome the feelings of anger stirred up by the prosecutor. Trial Lawyers College teaches lawyers to identify universal themes to be those many people can relate to, such as parenthood or significant loss. "As a mitigation specialist, we meet people where they are."

"It is the idea of just being yourself and connecting and being genuine and not just pretending to be genuine but being actually genuine...see how that actually works." This fall, former prosecutor Adam Murray enjoyed training at the Trial Lawyers College intensive five-day course in Shambhala, Colorado. Although he is not yet a TLC graduate, he describes his time at the TLC as a "life-changing experience." After leaving the seminar, he determined that the tools provided an entirely different perspective that would benefit all aspects of trial preparation, beginning with Voir Dire. "How can I be empowered to make sure that my client can get their story before the jury so that the right result happens?" Being able to authentically connect with the jurors from the beginning of the process helps attorneys avoid seeming adversarial. It allows lawyers to work collaboratively with the jury and to practice the law while retaining their humanity. Murray has since added a psychodrama room onto his office space for helping clients prepare for trial, so they would be better able to live out the critical moment on the stand. As they express their feelings regarding the experience, jurors can identify with the victim and their loss.

"Lawyers get bogged down in minutiae and facts. The facts are important. The facts are the latticework upon which you hang the flesh of your case, and the flesh of your case is going to be the principles, the values, the emotion, the feelings, the betrayal; those types of things are what make a case relatable to a jury." This week, Kenny Adair, former district judge and 2007 graduate of the Trial Lawyer College (TLC), attributes his success to TLC. When he left the program, he felt better equipped to discover and understand his clients' stories and tell them in a way that the jury would embrace. Through the use of reenactments, among other methods, he can discover the backstory and connect personally and emotionally to each case. Adair tells the essential story during voir dire, during the opening statement, when questioning the clients and witnesses, and during the closing argument. He identifies the hero or would-be hero and the villain, the liable party. He shows the villain's betrayal and is ready to capitalize on the defense counsel's trial behavior that compounds the original harm to the client.

"You've got to understand who your audience is really is. What are the morals of your jury? Once you understand their morals and whether they're liberal or conservative, and you tailor your opening statement towards that, you're well on your way to getting the verdict that you want." In this episode of the TLC Podcast, host Rafe Foreman meets with Kentucky-based trial lawyer Frank Mungo to discuss his unique approach to storytelling to resonate with the judge and jury in a variety of criminal cases. Guiding listeners through the details of some of his most successful trials, Frank provides an insightful look at the personal values and political biases that can influence judges' and jurors' connections with our clients and the ultimate outcome of a case.

"If the cancer is a wake-up call to spend the rest of my life—however long I have—to live a life with more quality and being more genuine, I'm not thinking that's too unfair." This episode of the TLC Podcast features Laurie Goodman, the beloved executive director of the Trial Lawyers College, who speaks with host Rafe Foreman about her April 2021 diagnosis of metastatic breast cancer. As she shares the insights she's discovered about herself in the wake of her ongoing health struggles, Laurie offers a critical reminder of the value of accepting one's life path, surrendering control, and making today the very best it can be.

"We are in a different mindset than our clients are. Even that is a barrier because, at that point, we don't see the context where our client comes from." This week's TLC podcast features trial lawyer Pat Montes, who offers a thought-provoking look at how language and culture impact a lawyer's relationships with their clients. Bringing to the table her unique perspective as a bilingual and bicultural attorney, Pat stresses the importance of working with clients in their native language rather than forcing them to struggle to convey their authentic story in English. As Pat and host Rafe Foreman continue their discussion, they raise a new set of questions: How can a client relate to their lawyer when they come from entirely different backgrounds? And how can a lawyer discover their client's story when their cultural differences, despite both speaking English, effectively mean they're speaking different languages? The answers to these questions and more are explored in-depth in this engaging podcast episode. Listen along as Pat and Rafe provide necessary insight into connecting with a diverse set of clients and ensuring equal justice for all.

"There are people who do bad things, but I've never met anybody who I felt was just a bad person." Continuing our series on 'Reconstructing Success,' California Public Defender Emily Fisher explores the ways that trial lawyers can intentionally improve injustices and inefficiencies in the justice system. As she guides listeners through her blueprint to resolving these systemic issues, Emily provides a thought-provoking starting point for the empathic trial lawyer to fine-tune their advocacy for their clients and bring humanity back into the courtroom.

"When we tell good stories, the listeners engage." This week, host Rafe Foreman meets with accomplished civil trial lawyer Scott Glovsky to explore his methods of successfully conveying the emotion behind his clients' stories to the jury. A passionate advocate for individuals who've faced unjust denials by their health insurance companies, Scott delves into the intersection between the struggles of his clients and the motivations of their insurers. As the episode comes to a close, Rafe and Scott encourage listeners to think about the underlying emotional connection that their story is conveying. Is it adequate? Is it complete? Is it thorough? These are all essential questions a trial lawyer must ask themselves to ensure that they can lead the jury to find justice for their clients.

"There are so many people who have incredible talents that are going to waste because they've been excluded. It's not hard to find if you just open your eyes….and when we see it, we need to use our position of power and privilege in the groups and organizations that we're leading to elevate that talent and allow them to have the space to shine." This week, trial lawyer and legal educator Keeley Blanchard joins Rafe Foreman in an integral discussion on the importance of inclusion, diversity, and representation in the legal profession. As a trainer of public defenders, Keeley explains how valuable it can be for members of underserved communities to see and be taught by legal leaders who share a key part of their identity, whether that's their race, disability, gender, or sexual orientation. However, Keeley reminds listeners of the barriers that currently limit that from happening at the frequency that it should, prompting her to explore the solutions to this pressing issue. As Rafe and Keeley dissect this issue from the perspective of their own marginalized identities as well as their points of privilege, they encourage legal professionals and leaders to identify the biases they have within themselves and to do the work to overcome them in order to provide a safe and welcoming space for all.

John Sloan hosts the TLC Podcast this week to interview Rafe Foreman and partner attorney Susan Hutchison on the incredible verdict the two trial lawyers won in a groundbreaking and unconventional gender discrimination case. Listen along as Rafe and Susan describe how they successfully conveyed their 72-year-old client's story to the jury after a false sexual assault accusation led to him losing his 20-year job with an HVAC company. In a compelling episode led by a dynamic group of voices that TLC students have come to know and love over the years, John leads Rafe and Susan as they provide a powerful testament to the efficacy of the psychodramatic methods and the value of truly reaching one's client to discover the winning story.

"Everything I need to know I learned in psychodrama. I remind myself to listen with my heart, tune into the emotions -- not just the words -- be open, be honest, and be kind because we have more in common than we'll ever know...and to be fearless because no matter how alone we're feeling, we are never alone and our TLC group -- every single one of them -- will be there to help you when you're going through a problem." This week, host Rafe Foreman is joined by Connie Taylor Henderson, who practices law with her husband and her son in Vancouver, Washington. Continuing our current podcast series titled "Restructuring Success," Connie backpacks off of the upcoming Warrior Magazine theme with an engaging dive into why TLC is worth fighting for. By sharing the impact that TLC has had on her life both personally and professionally and reflecting on TLC's past, present, and future in these turbulent yet promising times, Connie's words are sure to resonate with all who have been touched by the TLC methods.

"Do something to make someone else's day better. If we all do that, every day, we'll change the world." This week, Washington attorney Mark Wagner continues our 'Restructuring Success' series with a refreshing take on the true meaning of success. Channeling the core message of the Trial Lawyers College, Mark argues that success is all in how we treat others. Through engaging storytelling and a matter-of-fact method of expression, Mark reminds listeners of the humanity in all of us and that we are more alike than we are different.

"Success is really subjective, and I think that's okay. The only thing that I need to do to live truthfully is to define the things that are important to me and let the rest burn. What's scarier -- disappointing people or thinking, at the end of the day, what kind of life could I have had if I had just been a little bit braver?" This week, Ilinois criminal defense attorney Cambry McNabb joins host Rafe Foreman to explore the true meaning of success. As a young lawyer who attended the Trial Lawyers College early in her career, Cambry has had her fair share of successes, but not all of those successes had perfect outcomes. Discussing the most noteworthy trials and tribulations of her legal practice, Cambry treats listeners to a thought-provoking dive into what it means to win or lose a case.

"Always be willing to be flexible -- don't get so married to your methodologies that you can't change those, too. It is in preparation and hard work but it's also in willing to be open to the ideas of others." This week, Todd Kelly of Austin, Texas, joins host Rafe Foreman to kick off our new podcast series titled 'Reconstructing Success' with an engaging overview of the importance of preparation and planning as a trial lawyer, particularly in the scope of pretrial. In discussing the strategies applied to some of his most recent trials, Todd explores the ideal balance between flexibility and consistency and the value of varying one's approach to win justice for their clients.

"For me, getting this opportunity with this scholarship, the biggest thing is spreading the message to go and get the vaccine." On this week's podcast, high school freshman Jack Lucchesi and his mother, Bridget Lucchesi, join host Rafe Foreman. Jack is one of the first ten winners selected in New York State's College Scholarship raffle for vaccinated teens, and his mom Bridget is a clinical mental health therapist who has deep Trial Lawyers College connections. In addition to knowing Rafe since childhood, Bridget joined TLC for the Death Penalty seminar in 2010, and she studied with Zerka Moreno, wife of Jacob Levy Moreno, the inventor of psychodrama! Rafe, Jack, and Bridget cover a variety of COVID-19-related topics during their conversation including Jack's scholarship raffle win, how to combat and identify misinformation, how to deal with grief throughout the pandemic, and much more.

"I decided that I should do something I don't normally do, and that's reverse roles with a defense attorney and try to figure out where they're coming from and how their lives have changed. So, I was trying to get personally involved with defense attorneys, not just in the case but in their actual lives..." On this week's podcast, Conroe, TX trial attorney and TLC faculty member Paula Estefan joins host Rafe Foreman to discuss how she works with opposing counsel, the benefits of doing so, and how her approach to opposing counsel has changed over time. Through their conversation, Paula and Rafe also touch on the power of silence and listening, what endures about TLC's methods, and the deep connections formed at the Trial Lawyers College.

"The plaintiff's practice can be very lonely. I think that loneliness has been a bit amplified by being inside, cooped up, and not able to communicate and build relationships like we were meant to. The pandemic has caused an amplification of those relationships gone silent." On this week's podcast, Kansas City trial attorney Brian McCallister joins host Rafe Foreman to discuss the ways that the lingering effects of the COVID-19 pandemic and other events of the past year will impact the practice of law in the future. As he guides listeners through the cases that have been impacted by this new era in his own practice of trial law and those of his colleagues, Brian provides a stark illustration of the fragility of the jury trial and the importance of human connection.

"Judges are just like us -- they're egocentric, they think with their own minds, they speak with their own heart, and they bring a lifetime of experiences as a human and as a previous lawyer to the bench." This riveting podcast features former Oklahoma judge Kenny Adair, now a criminal and civil trial lawyer, who gives his unique perspective on the fears and vulnerabilities of the more challenging judges encountered by trial lawyers. Sharing invaluable insight into the human side of the men and women behind the bench, Kenny presents listeners with a refreshing take on the use of psychodrama to connect with the judge and win justice for their clients.

"I'm one of those types of people that wants to be all things all the time, and what I'm learning is you can't be all things all the time. It's just not possible. That's how you wind up burned out and really of no use to anybody." Continuing our theme of 'Managing in Tough Times' is Kahlie Hoffman, a Kansas City-based personal injury trial lawyer who's raising two young boys behind the scenes. Despite the difficulties her busy life has handed her, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic, Kahlie believes that each role she plays strengthens her abilities in the other. Reflecting on the challenges and triumphs she has faced while managing both full-time roles, Kahlie provides invaluable insight into the value of self-care, setting realistic boundaries for oneself, and communicating those boundaries to others.

"There are some people who have not had an opportunity to represent a gay client or a member of a minority group, and there may be some biases there. Before proper representation can be done, I think that a person needs to sit with themselves and try to overcome those biases or really truthfully address them and see if they're going to play into the case." This week's podcast features Colorado attorney Sean Brown, who engages in a captivating conversation with host Rafe Foreman about navigating the touchy topic of sexuality when representing an LGBTQ client. Discussing the potential biases of judges, jury members, and even themselves as trial lawyers, Sean provides a vital perspective for attorneys to successfully uphold the rights of members of marginalized groups.

"I want widows to know that once they have loved someone so deeply and been loved, it will come again. Nobody should live without love, and they don't have to." This podcast features California attorney Samantha Berryessa, who continues our 'Managing in Tough Times' series with a moving account of her experience navigating grief before and after the 2019 death of her husband, attorney Dax Cowart. A wrongful death lawyer by practice, Samantha gracefully highlights the parallels between her personal experience with grief and her perception of the grief of her widowed clients. Offering a unique glimpse into the inner world of a newly widowed woman, Samantha's riveting testimony is essential listening for any trial lawyer who represents the bereaved.

"We need to communicate with our eyes more, whether it's to your spouse or the jury on voir dire or to your client." In this week's episode of the TLC podcast, civil lawyer Chandler Loupe joins host Rafe Foreman in a contentious discussion around the unique challenges faced by trial lawyers during the COVID-19 pandemic. Sharing his experience as a trial attorney in one of the few regions that kept its courtroom doors open through 2020, Chandler provides a timely reminder of the value of looking into people's eyes.

"In order for me to do a trial right now, I need to prepare extra-special. It's sort of like an extended warm-up to get my head in the right spot." This week's podcast features Jason Savela, a criminal defense lawyer with more than two decades of experience trying cases to juries in Colorado. Continuing our theme of "Managing in Tough Times," Jason shares the details of some of his most riveting cases, guiding listeners through the hardships and triumphs that he has shared with his clients. As a TLC-trained trial lawyer, Jason stays true to the psychodramatic methods, sharing the strategies he used to discover his clients' stories and tell them authentically to the jury. Bringing the discussion back to the tough times we're collectively facing, Jason reminds listeners of the importance of using demonstrative evidence now more than ever.

"I didn't want anyone to see me as I really am. I thought they would reject me. That's why, in the beginning, I worked so hard to walk perfectly -- I didn't want anyone to see my weakness. But it was only when I was willing to let people inside and to see that is when I began to be comfortable with it as well." Continuing our 'Managing in Tough Times' series is Bret Merkle, a Sioux Falls, South Dakota, personal injury attorney whose life was turned upside down at the age of 21 after he sustained serious injuries in a motorcycle accident. Suddenly facing a life with chronic pain and loss of bodily function, Bret slowly discovered sources of joy and fulfillment that would keep him moving forward. While he learned to push through his hardships to accomplish an impressive legal career, Bret continued to struggle with being open about his physical struggles due to a fear of rejection. As Bret finally began to appreciate the value of living authentically and creating bonds as his true, vulnerable, and imperfect self, he built powerful relationships and unmatched success in his career as a trial lawyer. Above all, he's learned to face his fears in everything he does -- whether it involves his body or his next trial.

"We need to see the things that are happening—the changes, the protocols, the restructuring of how this is all working—as opportunities and to find ways to embrace them and make them part of how you present your case." This timely podcast features Texas trial lawyer Susan Hutchison, who discusses how the COVID-19 era has hindered the efficacy of the jury trial and what trial lawyers can expect in order to be better advocates for their clients as courtrooms begin to open up again throughout the nation. In sharing her and her clients' stories of resilience and adaptation while navigating uncharted waters, Susan's words of wisdom offer something that can resonate with all.

"It's not just the words that I say, but do I honor the words that you say?" This continuation of our 'Words Matter' series features Dana Cole, an associate professor of law at the University of Akron School of Law, who shares his thoughts on the power and components of an impactful story and the art of mindful listening. This refreshing approach to why words matter explores not only on the side of the storyteller but also on the side of the listener. Drawing from both his personal insight inspired by recent events and his unique understanding of the psychodramatic methods, Dana's words embody the message of kindness, respect, and connection behind everything we do here at TLC.

"I win because I'm the person who cares the most in the courtroom, not because I know the most." This week's podcast features Kiesha Cannon, a captivating voice for the vulnerable and the accused, who shares her insight into the simple secrets behind effective communication and connection both in and out of the courtroom. Drawing from her equally-inspiring personal and professional journeys, Kiesha provides a stark reminder of the importance of living authentically and listening with an open heart.

"The whole point of psychodrama is to tell the story, and the ways that lawyers have incorporated this method to tell their client's story with such love and interest and time and attention is one of the greatest gifts I've ever seen another human being give another human being." This week's podcast continues our 'Words Matter' series with Jody Anderson, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and a Certified Psychodramatist, who shares her personal and professional insight into the impact of language on the thoughts, feelings, and emotions of a trial lawyer's clients. The daughter of beloved TLC Psychodramatist Kathie St. Clair, Jody follows in her mother's footsteps with a moving exploration of the power of authenticity and spontaneity in establishing a positive attorney-client relationship.

"They always told us in Tennessee, 'Great songs aren't written — they're re-written.' I think that saying could apply for us in our work as trial lawyers." In this multifaceted episode of the TLC podcast, host Rafe Foreman is joined by singer/songwriter and trial attorney Sam Wooden to continue our 'Words Matter' series. Offering his perspective on the connection between art and the performance of the trial lawyer, Sam shares the story behind his love for music and its parallels with his discovery of psychodrama and his application of these methods to win justice for his clients. Armed with his guitar and his voice, Sam supports the link between the art of creating sound and presenting a powerful argument to the jury with a real-time performance of his music. This sparks a moving dialogue between Sam and Rafe, who draw upon their own experiences to solidify the messages of connection, compassion, creativity, and spontaneity that lie behind the TLC methods and the duty of the trial lawyer.

"How do you know that words matter? You know because they make you feel something." In this continuation of our podcast series titled Words Matter, Los Angeles Public Defender Kim Savo shares her insight into the connection between poetry and the presentation of a compelling opening statement. A wordsmith by nature and a passionate advocate for the accused, Kim stresses the importance of emphasizing the emotion behind a story, rather than leaning on the facts, to move jurors to justice. Staying true to the TLC methods, her moving discussion with host Rafe Foreman offers a refreshing look at the artistry behind a trial lawyer's words.

"As advocates in the courtroom, the truth carries the day, and we have the obligation to seek the truth, to speak the truth, and to correct lies and misstatements when they're in violation of the truth." In this first installment of our four-part series titled 'Words Matter', host Rafe Foreman takes the mic to introduce the why behind this pressing topic. Why do words matter? What do words, particularly falsehoods, have the power to do? This timely episode, inspired by the recent events at our nation's Capitol, explores each of those questions and more. While Rafe doesn't have a straightforward solution to America's rising issue of weaponized misinformation, his words serve to encourage further thought, discussion, and personal accountability among those who hold the highest obligation to promote the truth.

"Our great-grandfather stood to fulfill a sacred duty...to do more than he ever thought he may have been capable of doing...at a particular time in the existence of the world for the survival of generations of all of us to come. The warriors that stand in courtrooms today—with their hand on a vulnerable, suffering person or their families—are doing that extremely honorable and important and courageous task of a warrior assigned the same type of commitment to help to make it a better world." This episode of the TLC podcast features brothers Harley and Robin Zephier, co-authors of the book Warrior Is and members of the Mnincoju Lakota people. In a captivating discussion with host Rafe Foreman, the brothers share their profound insight into what it means to be a warrior through the story of their great-grandfather, Mato Niyanpi "Saved by Bear", a proud Lakota warrior who performed an act of commitment and courage during the Battle of the Greasy Grass in 1876, interweaving his legacy with the story of humankind as a whole. By establishing a parallel between the values of the Lakota culture and the core mission of the Trial Lawyers College, Harley and Robin offer a refreshing perspective that transcends the boundaries of time and background. Tying it all together with the current turbulent political atmosphere of both our nation and our world, this episode offers a timely reminder of the importance of coexistence, unity, and interconnectedness and the role of the trial lawyer in upholding them.

"It's not going to be a straight line from here to a better world, but what other choice do we have?" This unconventional episode of the TLC podcast features Bernie Cantorna, a Centre County, Pennsylvania District Attorney who served on the TLC faculty from 1997 to 2016. As he catches up with host Rafe Foreman, Bernie explains why he chose to become a DA and offers his unique insight into the inner world of a prosecutor from someone who's been in both shoes. As a former general practitioner representing both civil plaintiffs and criminal defendants in a range of emotionally moving cases, Bernie saw a problem that needed to be fixed. Like a true TLC warrior, Bernie cleaned up a corrupt DA's office by taking on the role himself, proving that it's never too late to do the right thing. His testimony serves as a powerful reminder of the ability of the TLC methods to transcend occupation and make a lasting impact from all angles of the criminal justice system.

"We have a real power right now to change the world we live in and leave it better for the generations to come, but we must come at it from a place of love. We have to be brave enough to be the light." In the fourth and final installment of our podcast series titled "What Do Trial Lawyers Do?" TLC graduate and faculty member Jacqui Ford offers a striking reminder of what it truly means to be a trial lawyer. A passionate advocate for the accused in Oklahoma City, Jacqui discusses the meaningful differences that she and her colleagues can make on their clients, the courtroom, and the community, tying her remarkable personal testimony together with the values of truth, authenticity, and self-reflection that lie at the core of the TLC methods.

"Fighting is an end in itself if the cause is right, so you've got to keep fighting. Even if you aren't having success at times, you've got to stick with it." In this third installment of our series titled 'What Do Trial Lawyers Do?', host Rafe Foreman explores the ins and outs of practicing civil rights law with Albuquerque, NM attorney Zackeree Kelin. Beginning with a deep dive into Zack's experience contributing to the formation of the New Mexico Civil Rights Commission following the growth of the Black Lives Matter movement in 2020, this riveting discussion could not be more timely. Later on in the podcast, listeners are introduced to the practice of American Indian Law through Zackeree's personal experience representing clients before the Navajo Nation Tribal Courts. A fervent advocate for the constitutional rights and basic human dignity of vulnerable populations, Zack is a TLC warrior through and through.

"Part of being a trial lawyer is being a good investigator — getting out of the office, visiting clients, visiting the scene, visiting witnesses, talking to people — and getting the evidence you need for your cases." In this second installation of our podcast series titled 'What do trial lawyers do?' host Rafe Foreman chats with Kansas City civil law attorney Tom Dickerson to discuss the ins and outs of representing personal injury plaintiffs. By exploring his own successes and setbacks, Tom offers a treasure trove of tips and tricks for burgeoning personal injury lawyers to elevate their skills both in and out of the courtroom and be fearless advocates for their clients. From motor vehicle accidents to dog bites to medical malpractice cases, Tom has dedicated his practice to standing up for everyday people facing life-changing injuries by fighting against insurance company misconduct. This passion and know-how is channeled into this engaging deep dive into personal injury law, where he fervently discusses the progression of his career and everything he's learned along the way.

"We help the people that have been neglected, left out, and desperate, and we give them life when everybody else has left them for dead." In this first installment of our four-part series titled 'What Do Trial Lawyers Do?' TLC graduate and faculty member Patrick McLain shares the intricacies, peculiarities, and triumphs of being a military trial lawyer. Hosted by Rafe Foreman, this engaging and informative dive into military law guides listeners through its unique structure and the ways in which it compares to other areas of the legal system. As a military law attorney with an impressive track record representing military members, Patrick connects these topics with the Trial Lawyers College methods and the turbulent atmosphere of 2020. By bringing his story full-circle, Patrick's insight epitomizes what both TLC and the legal career are all about: loyalty, community, and connection no matter what life throws our way.

"The most important thing to help people in the system is to address their thinking errors, and this all starts with their limiting, permission-granting beliefs and values about drug use or criminal thinking and conduct. There will be no long-term behavior changes without this work being done." In this week's podcast, host Rafe Foreman sits down with Hawaii's Stan Dokmanus, a Certified Criminal Justice and Addictions Professional and Certified Substance Abuse Counselor, to discuss the overlap between criminal behavior and addiction. Throughout the episode, Stan draws from his extensive experience treating individuals with substance abuse disorders to give his insight into drug crime, the criminalization of addiction, and potential solutions. Stan's deep dive into this topic is centered on discovering the reasons behind an individual's addiction and criminality, including how biopsychosocial factors can form the belief systems that fuel their behavior. In doing so, Stan asserts that professionals can directly address and change their client's criminal behavior by touching their belief system, with the ultimate goal of offering alternative solutions to incarceration.

"We might be on different sides of a bridge but we're both human. We can get closer on that bridge than we ever thought possible if we truly open up and try to listen and hear each other and find something in ourselves that connects with what that person has just said. You'd be surprised that we have more in common than we have different." In this week's podcast, TLC graduate and F-Warrior board member Mike Smith shares his riveting testimony to the value of the TLC methods. An Atlanta-based workers' compensation and personal injury lawyer, Mike is a firm believer in the power of the TLC methods to positively change both the personal lives and practices of those who learn them, just as they did for him. As you listen to Mike's inspiring story, you'll learn about the circumstances that led to his open embrace of vulnerability, connection, and storytelling in all areas of his life. From his first experience with TLC to his eventual application of the psychodrama methods in the courtroom, Mike's personal journey has something that resonates with us all.

"The newspaper quoted, 'the defendant hugged his lawyer after the verdict was read.' That's the relationship we had, and you only get there by caring about your client." In this week's episode, TLC graduate and faculty member Jerry Bosch guides host Rafe Foreman through the ways in which the TLC methods helped obtain a not guilty verdict on an attempted murder charge, detailing the months he invested in discovering the story and innocence of his client. As you listen to this captivating podcast, you'll hear Jerry describe the value of the listening exercise in regard to an adverse witness. Jerry involves psychodramatic tools and techniques in this case to gain understanding from all sides, skillfully complementing this with improvisation methods to interview and cross the adverse witness. A true testimony to the success of TLC, Jerry's thoughtful and reflective journey to not guilty is a learning experience for us all.

"They're people who made a mistake. If you're willing to put in the time and hold their hand through the process, they'll never forget that." In this week's podcast, Sarah Toney, a criminal defense specialist and TLC faculty member, discusses the world of DWI/DUI and the interplay between the TLC methods in both trial and pretrial settings. As a national leader in DUI defense, Sarah shares her insight into defending these crimes and how best to apply the TLC methods toward that goal. From flaws and inconsistencies in field sobriety, breathalyzer, and blood testing to unnecessarily harsh sentencing practices, Sarah shines a light on a range of statutory issues, exploring the many ways in which everyday drivers can be subject to false accusations and rights violations. Paired with a comparison of laws throughout the nation, this episode gives listeners a comprehensive inside look at DUI defense to help them better navigate this complex legal landscape in their own practices.

Chris Trundy, a TLC faculty member from Massachusetts, discusses the delicate and powerful issue of institutional racism in the United States court system and the crossroads between civil prosecution of these claims and the TLC methods. Standing among the top trial lawyers and psychodrama experts in America, Chris' career took off in the early 90s when he served Massachusetts as a private court-appointed lawyer. Despite taking a high volume of cases and seeing first-hand how institutional racism impacted the lives of those he was representing, Chris is open about his initial skepticism. As you listen to this week's podcast, you'll learn the stories and circumstances that influenced Chris' burgeoning awareness — from sentencing biases to poor jury diversity — and gain invaluable insight into the ways that judges and trial lawyers can propel change from the inner workings of the justice system.

In this riveting interview, TLC alum and faculty member Max Mitchell draws upon his extensive experience representing Missouri's most vulnerable criminal defendants to passionately and earnestly identify the good, the bad, and the ugly in the criminal justice system. As a district public defender in Sedalia, Missouri, Max represents individuals with charges ranging from DWI to first-degree murder. This role has given him an inside look at the destructive effects that limited funding, insufficient resources, and unjust sentencing practices can have on the lives of individuals facing criminal charges in Missouri. The interview begins with a brief discussion on Gideon v. Wainwright, the landmark U.S. Supreme Court case which upheld a defendant's right to effective counsel at every stage of litigation. Max explains that this ruling is not always applied as intended, leading to less-than-ideal outcomes for criminal defendants, who may or may not be guilty. To illustrate this assertion, Max cites instances of overburdened public defenders with dozens of active cases under their belts, police failing to inform defendants of their rights to a lawyer during the interrogation stage, and courts failing to prioritize the distribution of public defender resources to those with the most dire financial needs. He also shines a light on other, more overarching flaws in the criminal justice system, including the practice of keeping innocent people in jail when they can't pay bond, biases from judges and prosecutors, and prosecution being based on the defendant's history rather than the crime itself. It is our hope that introducing these issues to our listeners will inspire them to begin thinking about how they can solve them. For more information on how you can gain the skills to make lasting change in the system, we invite you to browse our selection of TLC courses

TLC alum Greg Antollino (TLC July 2003) discusses his recent Supreme Court victory, in which the SCOTUS ruled that employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity is prohibited under federal civil rights laws. Greg's client was dismissed by his employer after a customer complained that he revealed his sexual orientation to her during the course of his work. Greg's client passed before the SCOTUS decision, but Greg persevered on behalf of his client and all LGBTQ Americans. The June decision represents the most significant LGBTQ ruling since the SCOTUS legalized same-sex marriage in 2015.

In this wide-ranging interview, TLC faculty member and former TLC Board member Mel Orchard lends his wisdom, knowledge, and experience to the issue of Civil Rights and qualified immunity. Mel has served as a trial lawyer for over 27 years, and his passion for his work still burns bright. Here he discusses his concerns about efforts underway to further limit the liability of corporations for harm to their workers and to the public - an issue of particular urgency in the harsh light of the Covid-19 pandemic. "Of the three pillars of our democracy, our judiciary is still, in American life, the most respected," Mel says. "We still have plenty of good judges; we still have plenty of good lawyers. We officers of the court are responsible for this pillar of our democracy. But the powers that want more power have been eroding this particular pillar of late like we have never seen. This is just one more chink at the bottom of the pillar. Do you think workers' lives will be safer or less safe when businesses will not be held accountable for unsafe practices?" Mel touches on the importance of truly listening and being present, in life and in trial, rather than trying to spin and manipulate. "All you can do is listen, hope to find some common theme that makes sense, then put your trust in these people and tell an honest story." Mel calls on his fellow TLC alumni to come together as a family to serve one another and strengthen the jury trial system. "Let's not go back on the teaching. Let's pay it forward and continue to provide safe spaces for us to be creative. We've got a world to change."

TLC Podcast host Rafe Foreman talks with photojournalist Amy Katz about her experiences in covering the Black Lives Matter protests in Washington, DC, Seattle, Los Angeles, and Portland, Oregon. In this episode, Amy shares how she was tear-gassed within 5 minutes of her arrival in Portland, despite being clearly identified as a member of the press. "During my first visit to Portland...the police really respected that we were journalists. They also were not attacking protesters...so I felt safe. But it was a totally different scene when I arrived back in Portland on July 21." Over the ensuing ten days in Portland, Amy was tear-gassed over twenty times. "I realized that if I was going to do my job, I had to learn how to operate blindly, assuming that I would be tear-gassed and would have my eyes shut for considerable amounts of time. So I started to practice putting on my protective equipment with my eyes closed and then learn how to operate my camera...with my eyes closed so when I was blinded with tear gas I could still take pictures." On July 29, Amy was shot with rubber bullets while walking in a single file line with several other journalists, their hands in the air waving press passes, their shirts and hats emblazoned with PRESS or NEWS MEDIA, shouting "Press!". The shooters, wearing US military camouflage and gas masks, refused to identify themselves or the particular agency who employed them. In this interview, Amy details the need and urgency for justice in our country and outlines the things that TLC warriors can do to help stop the chaos. Protests are not acts of terrorism. Symbolic action is needed for free speech. But the government used tear gas and shot at the Press - hardly a symbolic act. The government attacked and assaulted the Press, protestors, and citizens who held their hands over their heads, saying "Don't shoot!" TLC warriors are needed to fight Civil Rights violations at a courthouse near you!

TLC alum and faculty member Mike Marrinan discusses how holding police accountable on modest abuse cases could prevent more serious cases. Mike is a San Diego attorney dedicated to representing victims of police misconduct in state and federal civil rights cases. According to Mike, police culture has developed in a way that encourages and accepts the use of more force than is necessary. This culture tolerates the militarization of policing and breeds more and more abuse, especially when no one is held accountable. Mike describes how video has changed the perception of the public regarding excessive force and raised public awareness and increased support for changing the protection of qualified immunity.

TLC Podcast host Rafe Foreman takes you on a journey through the essential TLC Trial Skills, from voir dire through to closing argument. Gain insights on how best to integrate TLC's groundbreaking methods into your case as Rafe describes the how and why of the various skills and methods. Listen as Rafe takes two jurors on a carefully guided path toward cause. Learn from the wisdom of Helen Simotas as her quote about "seeing" brings light and understanding to this program. Feel the tension between inclusion and exclusion, and carve your own path up that steep grade. Engage yourself on a deeper level and feel the emotions as you listen to the sage wisdom of Don Clarkson and explore the depths of who you are or want to be. Learn the difference between cockiness and humble confidence as you shake your core to embrace new and exciting opportunities. TLC seminars return this fall with October seminars on Cross-Examination and Voir Dire, and continue in December with Discover the Story of Your Case.