
Show overview
The Retirement Wisdom Podcast has been publishing since 2024, and across the 2 years since has built a catalogue of 114 episodes. That works out to roughly 55 hours of audio in total. Releases follow a weekly cadence, with the show now in its 9th season.
Episodes typically run twenty to thirty-five minutes — most land between 26 min and 33 min — and the run-time is fairly consistent across the catalogue. None of the episodes are flagged explicit by the publisher. It is catalogued as a EN-US-language Education show.
The show is actively publishing — the most recent episode landed 1 weeks ago, with 29 episodes already out so far this year. The busiest year was 2025, with 61 episodes published. Published by Retirement Wisdom.
From the publisher
Retire Smarter
Latest Episodes
View all 114 episodesDesign for Optionality: Rethink Retirement – Pam Krueger
What If You Pivot Instead of Retiring? – Scott Siff
The Future of Work is Grey – Dan Pontefract
What If Retirement Is the Wrong Goal? – John Coleman
Turn Into The Swerve – Jerry Goodstein
Change Your Questions, Change Your Life…in Retirement – Marilee Adams, PhD
Two Grannies on the Road – Beth Sobiloff & Marcia Rothwell
Letting Go to Become Who You Truly Are – Deborah Santana
How to Flourish…in Retirement – Daniel Coyle
The Caregiving Trap…in Retirement – Pamela D. Wilson
The Grandparenting Blueprint – Richard Eyre (Part Two)
The Grandparenting Blueprint – Linda & Richard Eyre (Part One)
Eat Your Ice Cream – Ezekiel Emanuel, MD, PhD
How to Stay Sharp in Retirement – Dr. Majid Fotuhi

S9 Ep 406What Do You Want Out of Life…in Retirement ? – Valerie Tiberius
Retirement triggers one of the most profound re-evaluations many people will ever face. A career ends. Structure disappears. Identity shifts. And suddenly a question that could be put off — What do I really want out of life? — becomes more urgent and unavoidable. Valerie Tiberius has spent her career building a useful framework for exactly that question. Her insights offer you something much more valuable than advice on life from your Financial Advisor – a way of thinking about your values, goals, and well-being in one of the most important transitions of your lifetime. Valerie Tiberius joins us from Minnesota. __________________________ Bio Valerie Tiberius is the author of What Do You Want Out of Life? A Philosophical Guide to Figuring Out What Matters (Princeton University Press, 2023). She is the Paul W. Frenzel Chair in Liberal Arts and Professor of Philosophy at the University of Minnesota, where she has taught since 1998. Her work sits at the crossroads of philosophy and psychology — specifically, how both disciplines illuminate what it means to live well. She is the author of four additional books, including The Reflective Life: Living Wisely with Our Limits, Well-Being as Value Fulfillment, and her widely acclaimed ). Her newest book, Artificially Yours: Real Friendship in a World of Chatbots, is forthcoming from Princeton University Press in May 2026. Valerie has received grants from the Templeton Foundation and the National Endowment for the Humanities, and her ideas have reached audiences through MPR News, numerous podcasts, and speaking engagements worldwide. __________________________ For More on Valerie Tiberius What Do You Want Out of Life? A Philosophical Guide to Figuring Out What Matters Artificially Yours: Real Friendship in a World of Chatbots (availabkle for pre-order – coming in May) Website __________________________ Mentioned in This Episode Why you should swap your bucket list with a chuck-it list __________________________ Retirement Podcast Conversations You May Like The Art of the Interesting – Lorraine Besser, PhD The Good Life – Marc Schulz, PhD Living for Pleasure – Emily Austin, PhD Life in Three Dimensions – Dr. Shige Oishi ____________________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how the Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one — on your own terms. About Your Podcast Host Joe Casey is an executive coach who helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a 26-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking. Joe has earned Master’s degrees from the University of Southern California in Gerontology (at age 60), the University of Pennsylvania, and Middlesex University (UK), a BA in Psychology from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, and his coaching certification from Columbia University. In addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, ranked in the top 1% globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.6 million downloads. Business Insider recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy. ______________________________ Wise Quotes On Values and Alignnment “I think living in accordance with your values, living up to your values, doing the things you value, that just is what it is to live a good life. So the good life is the life in which you fulfill the best values for you… Life goes well to the extent that we pursue and fulfill our appropriate values over time — not the values society assigns us, but the ones that are emotionally authentic, reflectively endorsed, and capable of being sustained together.” On Hidden Goals “If you don’t acknowledge [a hidden goal] and it’s there, it will come up and haunt you at some point. It will come and hit you in the face.” On Adding a Chuck It List to Your Bucket List “Sometimes you have to give yourself permission to say, I’m never going to do that. I’m just not going to do it. And for my dad, it was learning Spanish. He really thought an educated person – my father has a PhD, he’

S9 Ep 405Making & Keeping Friends…in Retirement – Janice McCabe
Choices shaped your career. But when retirement approaches, a new design challenge appears. Not a financial one. A life design challenge. What will your days look like? What will energize you? What might the next five years become? In the Designing Your New Life in Retirement program, you’ll step back from the fray and apply design thinking to those questions, with a bias for action. Learn more here. We begin in April. Join us and get started – on your most important project. _____________________________ Friendship is one of the most powerful forces shaping our lives—and our health. Friendships become harder to maintain as life evolves, especially during major transitions like retirement. Losing work friends is normal, yet few realize how new connections can be cultivated. Our guest today highlights why identity shifts can, perhaps counterintuitively, create oppotunities to build new friendships. My guest today is Janice McCabe, is a sociologist at Dartmouth and author of Making, Keeping, and Losing Friends. Her research, mainly on college campuses, illuminates key principles of forming friendships like the hidden structures that shape our friendships. In this conversation, we explore how anyone—at any stage of life—can become more intentional about building meaningful connections. Why friendships are essential for long-term health and well-being The two biggest drivers of friendship formation Why proximity matters more than we realize Three types of friendship networks The difference between fading friendships and breakups If you’re approaching retirement or navigating a major life transition, understanding these patterns can help you design a richer and more connected life. Janice McCabe joins us from New Hampshire. __________________________ Bio Janice M. McCabe is associate professor of sociology at Dartmouth College and the Allen House Professor. She is the current president of the Sociology of Education Association and the author of Making, Keeping, and Losing Friends and Connecting in College: How Networks Matter for Academic and Social Success. __________________________ For More on Janice McCabe Website Books __________________________ Mentioned in This Retirement Podcast Conversation I Study Friendship. Here’s How You Make Lasting Friends. ___________________________ Retirement Podcast Conversations You May Like How to Make New Friends in Retirement – Dr. Marisa G. Franco Our New Social Life – Natalie Kerr & Jaime Kurtz The Good Life – Marc Schulz, PhD ____________________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how the Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one — on your own terms. About Your Podcast Host Joe Casey is an executive coach who helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a 26-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking. Joe has earned Master’s degrees from the University of Southern California in Gerontology (at age 60), the University of Pennsylvania, and Middlesex University (UK), a BA in Psychology from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, and his coaching certification from Columbia University. In addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, ranked in the top 1% globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.6 million downloads. Business Insider recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy. ______________________________ Wise Quotes On Life Changes & Friendships ” We’re changing and we’re growing throughout our lives, and there may be times that we change with our friends, and so our identities, our interests change in similar ways, or we’re able to keep some sort of connection through those transitions. But it can be harder for people who are now retired. They likely have friendships that, started earlier in life, and you may have similar transitions with having kids at the same time, or living in the same area or in different areas throughout your lives. So all of those things, some of which are structural. When you’re having those life transit

S9 Ep 404Mattering…in Retirement – Jennifer Breheny Wallace
________________________ Get started in April on your most important project. Learn more here _________________________ Retirement planning focuses heavily on finances — investments, Social Security, and risks. But there’s another question that often sneaks up on people once the career chapter closes: Do I still matter? Our guest today has spent years researching one of the most powerful psychological needs we have as human beings — the need to feel valued and to add value. Jennifer Breheny Wallace is an award-winning journalist and author of the new book Mattering: The Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose. Her work explores how feeling significant, appreciated, invested in, and depended on shapes our well-being throughout life. And her insights have important implications for retirement. Because when work ends, many people lose one of the primary places where they knew they mattered — where their contributions were visible, valued, and relied upon. In this conversation, we explore: • Why the need to matter doesn’t diminish with age • How retirees can build what Jennifer calls a “mattering portfolio” • The surprising research on relationships and resilience • Practical daily actions that restore a sense of meaning and contribution If you’re thinking about retirement — or already there — this conversation may change how you think about purpose, connection, and belonging in the next chapter. _________________________ Bio Jennifer Breheny Wallace is the author of Mattering: The Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose. She is an award-winning journalist and bestselling author whose work explores the power of mattering in our everyday lives. Through research and storytelling, Wallace examines the hidden forces shaping modern life, from the crisis of meaning in achievement culture to the essential role of mattering in personal, workplace, and societal health. Her first book, Never Enough: When Achievement Culture Becomes Toxic — And What We Can Do About It, was a New York Times Bestseller, an Amazon Best Book of the Year, and a Next Big Idea selection. Wallace is the founder of The Mattering Institute, whose mission is to create cultures of mattering in workplaces and communities, and co-founder of The Mattering Movement, a nonprofit whose mission is to create cultures of mattering in K-12 schools. Wallace has partnered with The LEGO Group on its global Play Unstoppable campaign to address perfectionism and grow confidence through play. She has also consulted with Calm wellness app, Netflix, and is a BCG BrightHouse Luminary. She serves on the University of Michigan’s Well-being Collective Advisory Council, and the Advisory Board for Making Caring Common, a project of the Harvard Graduate School of Education. Wallace is a Journalism Fellow at The Center for Parent and Teen Communication at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. After graduating from Harvard College, Wallace was a journalist for CBS “60 Minutes” and was part of the team that won The Robert F. Kennedy Awards for Excellence in Journalism. She is a contributor to The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post and frequently appears on national television programs to discuss her work. Wallace serves on the board of the Coalition for the Homeless in New York City, where she lives with her husband and their three children. ___________________________ For More on Jennifer Breheny Wallace Mattering: The Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose by Jennifer Breheny Wallace Website ___________________________ Mentioned in This Retirement Podcast The Retirement Crisis No One Warns You About: Mattering – The Wall Street Journal Video: Taylor Mali (What Do You Make?) ____________________________ Your choices shaped your career. But when retirement approaches, a new design challenge appears. Not a financial one. A life design challenge. What will your days look like? What will energize you? What might the next five years become? In the Designing Your New Life in Retirement program, you’ll step back from the fray and apply design thinking to those questions, with a bias for action. Learn more here. Our next two groups begin in April. Join us and get started on your most important project. _____________________________ Podcast Conversations You May Like What Matters Most – Diane Button How to Live a Meaningful Life – Dave Evans Retiring: Creating a Life That Works for You – Teresa Amabile ____________________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A mean

S9 Ep 403Love & Happiness…in Retirement – Sonja Lyubomirsky
Discern what you’ll retire to. Join our group program starting in April. Learn more here _________________________ What if the secret to happiness isn’t success or achievement — but simply feeling loved? In this episode, one of the world’s top researchers on happiness and well-being Sonja Lyubomirsky explains why connection, curiosity, and listening may be the most powerful ingredients for a fulfilling life — and a meaningful retirement. Her new book, co-authored with relationship scientist Dr. Harry Reis, is How to Feel Loved: The Five Mindsets That Get You More of What Matters Most —and it offers a surprising and practical roadmap for getting there. Key insights? When you want to feel more loved, don’t try to make yourself more lovable. Don’t try to change the other person. Instead, change the conversation. Go first. Make them feel loved—and watch what happens next. This conversation is full of wisdom for anyone planning for or navigating retirement—a life stage where relationships become the center of your world. Dr. Lyubomirsky talks about the vulnerability paradox, the three magic words everyone wants to hear, why older people are actually happier than younger ones, and what really matters when you’re designing a life worth living. Sonja Lyubomirsky joins us from Santa Monica, California. ___________________________ Bio Sonja Lyubomirsky (AB Harvard, summa cum laude; PhD Stanford) is Distinguished Professor of Psychology at the University of California, Riverside and author of the best-selling The How of Happiness and The Myths of Happiness (published in 39 countries). Lyubomirsky’s research—on the possibility of lastingly increasing happiness via gratitude, kindness, and connection interventions—have been the recipients of many grants and honors, including Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), an Honorary Doctorate from the University of Basel, the Diener Award for Outstanding Midcareer Contributions in Personality Psychology, the Christopher Peterson Gold Medal, a Positive Psychology Prize, and the Faculty of the Year Award (twice). She has four kids, ages 12 to 26, and lives in Santa Monica, California. ___________________________ For More on Sonja Lyubomirsky How to Feel Loved: The Five Mindsets That Get You More of What Matters Most Website __________________________ Retirement Podcast Conversations You May Like How to Live a Meaningful Life – Dave Evans Retire Happy – Dr. Catherine Sanderson The Good Life – Marc Schulz, PhD ___________________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how the Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one — on your own terms. About Your Podcast Host Joe Casey is an executive coach who helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a 26-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking. Joe has earned Master’s degrees from the University of Southern California in Gerontology (at age 60), the University of Pennsylvania, and Middlesex University (UK), a BA in Psychology from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, and his coaching certification from Columbia University. In addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, ranked in the top 1% globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.6 million downloads. Business Insider recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy. ______________________________ Wise Quotes On Love & Happiness “The key to happiness is feeling connected and loved. The secret to feeling loved is really feeling known.” On Going First “When we want to feel more loved, we often try to make ourselves more lovable. But the research suggests something different — we need to start by making the other person feel loved. A relationship is really a series of conversations. Changing the conversation can change the relationship. When you think about a relationship is a series of conversations. And so during your next conversation, the first step is actually to try to make the other person feel more loved. And so we talk a

S9 Ep 402What Can Make or Break Your Retirement – Rod Yancy
What’s next? Don’t drift. Design. Our next small group coaching program starts in April. Learn more here. ________________________ Most retirement planning conversations start and end with money. Rod Yancy, founder of Oath Planning, challenges that assumption head-on — arguing that mindset, emotional health, and identity matter more than any portfolio balance when it comes to actually thriving in retirement. In this conversation, Rod shares data from Oath’s latest client survey, their Q1 2026 Money and Meaning Institute survey of over 500 retirees and near-retirees, and some the findings may surprise you. For example, the biggest regrets aren’t about money. The financial advisory industry is structurally incentivized to keep money at the center of retirement planning — even when that leaves clients less than fully prepared for what they’ll face in planning for life in retirement. He offers a candid, practitioner-level view of what he actually sees working (and failing) in retirement transitions. Rod Yancy joins us from Tulsa, Oklahoma. _________________________ Bio Rod Yancy is a multifaceted entrepreneur, writer, attorney, and leader. His personal mission to empower others to live their lives to the fullest is woven into both his business ventures and creative projects. After graduating from the University of Oklahoma in 2002 with a double major in philosophy and political science, Rod made adventure his top priority, traveling in search of new experiences, inspiration, and deeper meaning. He began writing about his journeys while immersing himself in diverse fields, from mindfulness to literature to software development. Recognizing the importance of legal expertise for his entrepreneurial goals, Rod pursued a J.D. at the University of Oklahoma College of Law, graduating in 2006. He quickly put his education to use by founding two app-based software companies in fantasy sports and photo sharing, before shifting his focus to creating what became one of his life’s major undertakings – Oath. Since its inception in 2010, Oath Law has been guided by Rod’s belief that life is short and everyone should embrace their unique journey to achieve their full potential. With this perspective, Rod utilized estate planning as a means to help people recognize life is short and organize their affairs, allowing them to focus on what truly matters: enjoying life. _____________________________ For More on Rod Yancy Oath Planning _____________________________ Retirement Podcast Conversations You May Like Retire with Purpose – Cesar Aguirre Design a Phased Retirement – Anna Rappaport Coming of Age in Retirement – Tom Marks _____________________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how the Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one — on your own terms. About Your Podcast Host Joe Casey is an executive coach who helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a 26-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking. Joe has earned Master’s degrees from the University of Southern California in Gerontology (at age 60), the University of Pennsylvania, and Middlesex University (UK), a BA in Psychology from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, and his coaching certification from Columbia University. In addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, ranked in the top 1% globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.6 million downloads. Business Insider recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy. ______________________________ Wise Quotes On Mindfulness “I remember hearing when I was young, about a farmer whose crops had failed. And when they asked him what he would have done different, he said I would have cared for the soil sooner. And that that really is the thing. Oftentimes, we really don’t care for what matters until after it’s too late to fix it. And I think that when it comes to emotional well being and mindfulness, people sometimes don’t even know what they were missing. But when we sit down with ou

S9 Ep 401Retiring Soon? What No One Tells You – Michael Kay
What’s next? Don’t drift. Design. Our next small group coaching program starts in April. Learn more here. _________________________ Who are you when you’re no longer your title? For many high-performing professionals, that question can feel destabilizing — even frightening. Michael Kay is a CFP, a financial life planner, the author of the new book How To Craft Your Chapter X: A Guide For High-Performing Men to Discover Meaning (and Joy) In Retirement. He’s been through it himself—the excitement of the new chapter, and then, six months in, the wall he didn’t see coming. Today he shares what he’s learned about reopening the aperture, grieving what you’ve left behind, and finding out who you were before you were your job. This is a conversation every high-achieving man—and the people who love them—needs to hear. _________________________ Bio Michael F. Kay is a coach, teacher, author and retired CFP(R). Through his books, workshops, speeches, and the Chapter X community, he’s helped thousands of women, men, and families master their financial lives—and navigate the transition from full-time work to what comes next. He’s written three books: How to Craft Your Chapter X, The Feel Rich Project, and The Business of Life. His insights have been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Fox Business, Forbes, and Psychology Today. Today, he publishes weekly essays for the Chapter X newsletter, hosts the Chapter X podcast, and shares his thoughts on LinkedIn. He is the former president of Financial Life Focus, a fee-only multi-advisor financial life planning firm. ___________________________ For More on Michael Kay How To Craft Your Chapter X: A Guide For High-Performing Men to Discover Meaning (and Joy) In Retirement _________________________ Podcast Conversations You May Like The Inspired Retirement – Nathalie Martin How to Prepare Mentally for Life After Work – Joseph Maugeri Art Cure: The Science of How the Arts Save Lives – Daisy Fancourt ____________________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how the Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one — on your own terms. About Your Podcast Host Joe Casey is an executive coach who helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a 26-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking. Joe has earned Master’s degrees from the University of Southern California in Gerontology (at age 60), the University of Pennsylvania, and Middlesex University (UK), a BA in Psychology from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, and his coaching certification from Columbia University. In addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, ranked in the top 1% globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.6 million downloads. Business Insider recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy. ___________________________ Wise Quotes On Saying No in Retirement “If it’s not joyful, I’m not going to do it.” On Perspective “As we get older and we start focusing towards career, that aperture narrows. And so when we get ready to step into this next chapter, whether it’s our choice or not, we are at our narrowest. So we need to, mindfully and intentionally—I think that’s the right word—look to reopen that aperture.” On Returning to Music – For Fun “I got the trumpet out and had it cleaned, and I found a teacher, and I started playing again, and I put up on my music stand, ‘fun’—the word fun—to remind me. Because if you miss a note, I was like, ‘You suck.’ All these things that come back. And so I had to keep reminding myself: this is for fun. I am never going to be a touring professional musician. I’m never going to play with Blood, Sweat and Tears or Chicago. This is for fun. And it just takes the discipline to keep reminding yourself—have joy in the music, have joy in the doing. The joy is in the journey, not in the destination. Because the destination is the journey.”