Building the Bromance

What do you get when Mamercus Aemilius Mamercinus and Aulus Cornelius Cossus return in our source material? The continuation of a beautiful bromance.

After an unfortunate amount of disease and destruction in our last episode, we return to Rome for some classic political and military action.

The Romans are ready to put a year of horrible drought behind them and seek revenge on Veii and the ongoing thorn in their side. Fidenae. It also turns out that war is the perfect backdrop for some male bonding.

Episode 135 – Building the Bromance

Jupiter as my Witness!

Before the Romans can get involved in any conflicts with Veii, there are rules of warfare that need to be observed. It is time for the fetiales! With Jupiter as their witness, they will make sure that Rome only goes to war in the right circumstances.

Fresco of Jupiter, National Archaeological Museum of Naples (inv. nr.9551).
From Pompeii, House of the Dioscuri, dating to the 1st century CE, so much later than the 420s BCE! Jupiter was invoked by thefetiales during their rituals.
Image courtesy of Wikimedia Commons.

Building the Bromance

The Romans elect military tribunes with consular power as they embark on their war with Veii. Unfortunately, the tribunes don’t have a talent for teamwork. It’s time for a dictator!

Our old friend Cossus nominates Mamercus Aemilius as dictator. In return, Aemilius makes Cossus his Master of the Horse. The bromance between these two is so strong that Veii doesn’t stand a chance. They are the Roman equivalent of Batman and Robin.

Watch out Etruscans! The caped crusaders are out to get you.

The classic duo: is that Mamercus and Cossus or Batman and Robin? When we squint, we can't even tell, that's how strong the bromance is here.

Things to Look Out For:

• More confusion over consuls  
• Murder most foul
• Birds in the sky (they might be trying to tell you something)
• Smugness from Mamercus
• Fiery combat
• Did we write a book? Oh boy, yes we did! If you enjoy the podcast, this might be just the ticket. You can purchase our popular history Rex: The Seven Kings of Rome HERE
• Interested in the first instalment of the bromance between Cossus and Mamercus? We've got you covered – that'd be Episode 129 – Lars Tolumnius and the Fate of Fidenae

Our Players 427 BCE

Consuls

• C. Servilius – f. – n. Structus Ahala (Pat) Mil. Tr. c. p. 419, 418, 417
• L. Papirius (L. f. – n.) Mugillanus (Pat) Mil. Tr. c. p. 422

Our Players 426 BCE

Military Tribunes with Consular Power

• T. Quinctius L. f. L. n. Poenus Cincinnatus (Pat) Cos 431, 428a, Mil. Tr. c. p. 420?
• C. Furius – f. – n. Pacilus Fusus (Pat) Cos. 441
• M. Postumius A. ? f. A.? n. Albinus Regillensis? (Pat) Mil. Tr. c. p. 403?
• A. Cornelius M. f. L. n. Cossus (Pat) Cos. 428

Dictator

• Mam. Aemilius M. f. – n. Mamercinus (Pat)

Master of the Horse

• A. Cornelius M. f. L. n. Cossus (Pat) Cos. 428a, Mil. Tr. c. p. 426

Legates

• T. Quinctius Poenus Cincinattus (Pat) Cos. 431, Mil. tr. c. p. 426, 420?

Our Sources

• Dr G reads Diodorus Siculus 12.78.1, 12.80.1; Dionysius of Halicarnassus Roman Antiquities 12.6; Valerius Maximus 3.2.4; Frontinus Stratagems 2.4.18-19, 2.8.9; Florus 1.6.7; Aurelius Victor De Viris Illustribus urbis Romae 25; Orosius 2.13.8-11
• Dr Rad reads Livy ab Urbe Condita 4.31-34.

• Broughton, T. R. S., Patterson, M. L. 1951. The Magistrates of the Roman Republic Volume 1: 509 B.C. – 100 B.C. (The American Philological Association)
• Cornell, T. J. 1995. The Beginnings of Rome: Italy and Rome from the Bronze Age to the Punic Wars (c. 1000-264 BC) (Taylor & Francis)
• Forsythe, G. 2006. A Critical History of Early Rome: From Prehistory to the First Punic War(University of California Press) 
• Ogilvie, R. M. 1965. A Commentary on Livy: Books 1-5 (Clarendon Press). 
• Santangelo, F. 2008. ‘The Fetials and Their Ius’. Bulletin: Institute of Classical Studies 51:1, 63-93.

Sound Effects

Fesliyan Studios, Orange Free Sounds and Pixabay.

Thanks to the fabulous Bettina Joy de Guzman for our theme music.

The Apollo of Veii, dated to around 550-520 BCE. This is a terracotta artefact that is now held in the National Etruscan Museum in Rome.
Source: Obelisk Art History Project.

Automated Transcript

Transcript generated by Otter AI. Edited by Dr G for those tricky Latin names!

Dr Rad 0:16
Welcome to The Partial Historians,

Dr G 0:19
we explore all the details of ancient Rome.

Dr Rad 0:22
Everything from the political scandals, the love affairs, the battles waged, and when citizens turn against each other. I'm Dr. Rad.

Dr G 0:33
And I'm Dr. G. We consider Rome as the Romans saw it by reading different authors from the ancient past and comparing their stories.

Dr Rad 0:43
Join us, as we trace the journey of Rome from the founding of the city.

Dr G 0:54
Hello, and welcome to a brand new episode of The Partial Historians. I am one of your hosts, Dr. G. And sitting with me in the realm of cyberspace.

Dr Rad 1:09
Is Dr. Rad. That's cyberspace.

Dr G 1:17
I feel ya, I feel ya. And we are tracing the history of Rome from the foundation of the city. And hoo-we, we have made it out of the 430s and scraped into the 420s. And we are about to look at 427 BCE. But before we do that, perhaps we should do a bit of a recap of where we're up to in the narrative.

Dr Rad 1:47
I was just thinking to myself, how do you recap nothing? How do you recap, the nothingness that was the previous three years?

Dr G 1:58
Well, I mean, it's not like there was absolutely nothing. There was a drought, there were some there was some bad news. And there was a truce made between the Aequians and the Romans.

Dr Rad 2:10
Definitely, like there was some stuff going on. But by the standards that we have come to expect of Rome, it was it was low, it was low.

Dr G 2:20
And I think we can attribute part of the fallowness of those years to the source material. As much as Livy is still with us. He did say that nothing happened.

Dr Rad 2:33
He did, I can't deny it. But also, I feel like this has to do a lot with what we've been talking about for a really long time now, literally years for us. So decades. For the Romans, we talked about the fact that there does seem to have been this really tough time in Roman history. If we look at the archaeological record, I thought we were looking at a tough time in the late 450s and into the 440s. But I had no idea what was awaiting us in the 430s. It is out of control.

Dr G 3:10
Yeah, there's heaps of problems with like, what might be going on with how Rome is in central Italy in this period. And, as we've noted before, there's not any sort of extensive record of a building programme, we've had some references to what this new temple to Apollo come up in the last few years, but that's the first building we've heard about in a while.

Dr Rad 3:33
They're suspicious of that building now.

Dr G 3:36
Yes,

Dr Rad 3:36
Just slightly, just slightly

Dr G 3:37
That temple. Can we trust Apollo? That God looks fishy to me. And so they have a sense in which their competition with their neighbours is so all consuming that it makes it very difficult to make progress at home. And that's just adding into what is the broader confusion, which is all of our source material, generally speaking, comes from centuries later, where they're unsure about what happened. And they're trying to figure it out from the limited records that have survived from this period. And they're a little bit all over the shop. So we're in some trying times, and that's okay. We'll just keep going.

Dr Rad 4:23
Look, I'm excited because the next couple of years, I know that there's potential for some very dramatic things to happen. So let's get into it, Dr. G. Let's head into 427 BCE!

Dr G 5:20
It is 427 BCE and Dionysius of Halicarnassus is missing.

Dr Rad 5:29
Fair enough. Well, once again, you know, I'm very good sharer. You should have the magistrates you should have that honour.

Dr G 5:36
Oh, thank you. Thank you. Well, I don't have many to report for this year. We apparently have the names of the consuls. So we've got Gaius Servilius Structus Ahala. Ahala!

Dr Rad 5:54
Ahala the armpit.

Dr G 5:58
Ahala.

Dr Rad 5:59
Yes, the famous armpit. Yeah.

Dr G 6:01
Well, yeah, so I was gonna say if this name sounds familiar, it's because we've already had a very infamous Gaius Servilius Ahala, the armpit as master of the horse in 439, who was responsible for or scapegoated as the person responsible for the assassination of Spurius Maeilus, also known as the Nacho King. And so this is big news because literally the same name, but we do think that they're different people. This seems to be the next one down the line.

Dr Rad 6:39
He was meant to be sent into exile, wasn't he?

Dr G 6:41
Well yeah, he was sent into exile. We don't seem to hear from him again. And do have this name Structus stuck in this guy for this year. And that name is not present for our previous Gaius Servilius Ahala. So okay, we don't really we're not really sure, but it does seem to be slightly different guy.

Dr Rad 7:04
Okay.

Dr G 7:05
So possibly the eldest son of the infamous armpit because the Ahala name is one of these cognomens, so it's one of these sort of individualising names. But how many people could be known by their armpit?

Dr Rad 7:21
I've never thought about it. I never thought.

Dr G 7:25
I mean, if this is a nickname, I don't know, but maybe it's inherited. And our second consul is Lucius Papirius Mugillanus.

Dr Rad 7:35
Papirius again!

Dr G 7:39
Another Papirii so this gens is doing well for themselves. But this guy is new. Mugillanus is a new figure that we haven't really come across before. This seems to be connected, potentially, to a family from the Latin town of Mugilla.

Dr Rad 7:59
Okay.

Dr G 8:00
Don't bother trying to find it on any maps because we don't know where it was.

Dr Rad 8:05
Then Moogly up to the server at night. All right, look, I've got a little bit of detail about this year. So let's get into it. I think you'll see the pace is starting to build up again. So this is a good sign. So, as is typical for Livy, we've had this horrible drought, causing all sorts of problems in terms of disease, death, chaos

Dr G 8:29
Mange.

Dr Rad 8:30
In the previous year. Yeah, it's all bad. But it's miraculously just all over now. We're on to new things, and the Romans feel well enough to seek vengeance against Veii who, lest we forget, seem to have been conducting some raids into Roman territory over the past year or two.

Dr G 8:50
All right, I'm just gonna interrupt you there because it's clearly rained, which means and this is one for the Australian listeners, Marge, the rains are here!

Dr Rad 9:04
Classic Simpsons reference and in the previous episode, we had a great Seinfeld reference, we're basking in the glory of the 90s.

Dr G 9:12
It's all happening.

Dr Rad 9:13
It is alright, so they want to deal with Veii. Okay, and we've got our consuls as you said. However, it was decided that they could not declare war on Veii straightaway. So we know that there's been this niggling backwards and forwards, but it was iffy about whether they were actually you know, still at war, like it was like an ongoing conflict that they could just renew. And I guess it was decided that it was best to be cautious and therefore presume that they weren't really already at war with they, and therefore this means that some of your favourites the fetiales have to go through their procedures before anything else can happen. So I thought this might actually be a good time to sort of review, what it is that these people do?

Dr G 10:03
Oh, yeah, look, the fetiales is some of my favourite priests. So they come in pairs. And they roam about the countryside looking for just war. so

Dr Rad 10:14
Sounds very noble when you put it like that

Dr G 10:17
One of them is dressed very fancily, one of them's not. And they go around together, if if Rome is in the mood, where they're like, we really do think that possibly conflict is on the horizon, is it going to be just in the eyes of the gods, then they get the fetiale crew out and about, and they have a very particular job, they've got a walk towards the territory, which Rome has a problem with. And as they walk along, they sort of announced periodically that they are seeking some sort of like righting of the relationship between Rome and this place, particularly when they get to what is considered to be the borderland between the two and before they step over into the symbolic other place, then they keep going, and periodically keep saying the things until they start to encounter people of that land. And you know, the message starts to spread, and these to continue onwards towards the major city centre of whatever place it is, and continue to announce, and they make some demands being like, you need to really liaise with Rome, otherwise, it's going to be a bit problematic, then they wait a specified period of time for an answer. And if they get one, that's fine, they take it back to Rome, and they start to figure things out from there. If they don't get one, they head back to Rome. And they're like, I think it might be time to consider a just war. And so then they go out again, and they do a bit of spear throwing into the other territory. And check out how the gods react to that. And if it's all looking good. War is just and may commence in the eyes of the god.

Dr Rad 11:51
Yeah, absolutely. They have this really interesting position where to quote the article that will be in our sources. So if you want to have a look at this article in full, please do they are in a sense, the people that preside over the rights that precede a war begin a war and at the end of the war, as well. And they serve this really interesting role as the kind of judges slash guardians of the peace of Rome, which I like as a nice little way of conjuring up what it is they do. And their role changed over time, as we shall see, it's not it's not always exactly the same.

Dr G 12:33
Look, there's nothing like a good twist on the tale, or like these are priests that are definitely involved in war. So to suggest that they're very much involved with peace is fascinating and hilarious.

Dr Rad 12:45
Well, yes. I mean, I think in terms of, you know, as you say, it's about are the Romans going to war for the right reasons should peace be broken, I suppose in order to go to war in that sense. Yes. Anyway, so we have the fetiales going through their proper procedures, okay. And we know, of course, there has been some conflicts with Rome and Veii because they were involved in the whole issue, over Fidenae, the colony that was and then wasn't, and then was, but doesn't seem to be committing to it wholeheartedly. You know, it's all very iffy with Veii and Fidenae at this point in time, I think we can definitely say that, if what the accounts that were given are correct. Rome is really struggling to assert itself in this whole decade in this part of Italy.

Dr G 13:39
Yeah, they can send as many fetiales as they like searching for just war, but they can't hold it together. And they can't seem to retain the things that they have laid out as their own. So Fidenae was theirs. And they're definitely struggling to hold on to it at this point.

Dr Rad 13:57
Yeah. So after the whole issue that they had had over Fidenae, they had a truce with Veii that had expired, admittedly, but the Romans still see the need to obviously declare war properly. So the fetiales go out and do their business, but rudely, they are completely ignored.

Dr G 14:17
Yeah, amazing. Well, I mean, let's face it, let's imagine you imagine the time these two weirdos from Rome, one of them dress very fancily, and the other one sort of like he's offsider and they sort of approaching and they're doing this sort of like, did you know that you are not in right relation with Rome?

Dr Rad 14:42
Like ah, yeah, I think I just stole your cow.

Dr G 14:46
They're like, Well, sure, but whatever. And then the you know, like they walk another 50 metres and like, did you know that you're not a right relation with Rome, and you know, like waving a fancy stick and stuff. And I can see how some people might not take them very seriously. Or, conversely realise the import of these two people and just laugh in their faces being like, this is how your gonna win the war. Really?

Dr Rad 15:18
I feel like the people of Veii are not particularly interested in preserving peaceful relations at this moment in time. So.

Dr G 15:26
And they probably have good confidence for that.

Dr Rad 15:28
Yeah. Well, should they though? Should they?

Dr G 15:31
Well, well, I guess we'll find out.

Dr Rad 15:36
Anyway, so it's obvious that a war is going to happen. A controversy breaks out over who has the right to actually declare the war? Is it the Senate or the people?

Wha-whoa

Turf war. Yeah. So I think it's, I think it's seen as like standard procedure at this point in time that the people are generally the ones that decide whether they are going to go to war. But they're starting to say, well, do we need to take it to the people? Is the senatorial decree enough? Now, again, this is probably a little bit anachronistic, I am not entirely confident in this idea of a senatorial decree, at this point in Rome's history. Now we are getting later, maybe I'm being overly cautious.

Dr G 16:25
We're in this very hazy period where it's hard to say. So from thinking about how Rome works. And we're not sure like that's, that's where we're at in terms of the scholarship, we're not entirely sure how it's working at this point in time. What we do know is that, generally speaking, the Roman people are involved in decisions relating to war, because it relates to things that they're specifically going to have to do.

Dr Rad 16:57
Yeah.

Dr G 16:57
And the Senate has lots of mechanisms and levers to push and pull those people in particular ways. This is not a democracy. But surely, the Senate has enough of its own levers still, to be able to persuade the people one way or the other. I would have thought this would suggest if we're looking at something where the Senate is like, well, we're just going to make that decision for everybody. That would seem to suggest to me that they've actually lost control of the populace.

Dr Rad 17:29
Hmm, interesting take. So the tribunes ended up winning this argument, which kind of makes sense. I would kind of expect them to be the people who are representing the people. And they say, look, you're going to let the people say whether it's war or not, because if you don't, then we're going to screw up your levy. And then who's going to fight for you, Senate? Who, who?

Dr G 17:56
Dear Lucretia, I didn't sign up for the levy this year. But somehow I'm still in the battlefield. I don't know how it happened.

Dr Rad 18:03
I am apart from you. And it is so painful, because I do not know why.

Dr G 18:10
I didn't sign up for this. And I don't know why I'm here.

Dr Rad 18:14
So what ends up happening is and this is a bit weird, Livy, or at least the versions of it that I'm reading, so it might be a typo. I probably should have checked the Latin I was a bit slack and I didn't, the consul Quinctius, which is weird, because we haven't mentioned a Quinctius in this year.

Dr G 18:30
Yeah, that's a surprise. Where does it Quinctius? Where is he coming from?

Dr Rad 18:35
I'm wondering if he means like the ex-consul Quinctius, that's something I probably should have checked in the Latin that me. But anyway, he's forced to present the question of war to the people. And you know what, it all ends up exactly how they wanted it anyway, because the centuries all vote for war anyway.

Dr G 18:52
Well, well, well. So I mean, it turns out that, in actuality, flesh rabbits, cause we're still not really sure what's going on, that the Senate gets their way by using the very levers that it already possesses in order to ensure that the people do what they want them to do, because we know that that voting system is I mean, by any measure of a modern standard completely rigged.

This this artificial tension. It's really probably not anywhere near as dramatic as it sounds.

The people agree to the thing that they've been convinced to agree to, and war shall proceed.

Dr Rad 19:35
Yeah. And the rich people have most of the say.

Dr G 19:39
Hmm.

Dr Rad 19:39
Either way. Either way you look at it.

Dr G 19:42
I mean, does it sound like the modern world?

Dr Rad 19:45
I don't know. The modern world is just such a delight filled with equality and justice.

Dr G 19:52
Indeed.

Dr Rad 19:54
So this takes me to the year that I've been very excited to get to for actually a number of episodes.

Dr G 20:00
Oh, okay, well hold that thought. I only have, I only have one more detail to add about this year.

Dr Rad 20:06
I was going to say, what detail are you adding?

Dr G 20:09
Before we vacate 427, I just want to draw attention to what appears to be the naming conventions in some of the Fasti records that we have attached to this year for Mr. Armpit himself. Ahala. Yeah, because in the Greek this comes through as Axilla. And in one of the Latin Fastis that comes through as Achillo. So we get this sense that there is a potential sort of like Achillius naming convention that might be coming through here where Ahala has been substituted in instead, or there's been a merging of those names over time. Anyway. Yeah, not that I see this guy as being in any way resemblance of Achilles. But, I mean, we don't really know what he did. But I thought it was an interesting little detail.

Dr Rad 21:09
Yeah, like until he has a temper tantrum and really stuffs things up for everyone, I'm not convinced.

Dr G 21:15
The other thing that's worth noting is Diodorus Siculus gets the names right for both consuls this year.

Dr Rad 21:22
Wow.

Dr G 21:25
Yeah, bringing his a game to this year.

Dr Rad 21:28
He is. All right. So that takes us to 426 BCE. At last!

Dr G 21:34
We're here this year is filled with drama, and people and potentially lots of stuff.

Dr Rad 21:41
Absolutely. So I don't know about you, Dr. G. But instead of consuls, I've got military tribunes with consular power.

Dr G 21:48
Oh, yes. I got some of those as well.

Dr Rad 21:51
Alright, tell me.

Dr G 21:52
So we have Titus Quinctius Poenas Cincinnatus,

Dr Rad 21:57
Who might be the Quinctius who Livy is talking about

Dr G 21:59
Indeed, in the previous year.

Dr Rad 22:02
Yeah.

Dr G 22:02
So he has been consul twice so far, 431 and in 428, and is now back in this new position. With consular power. We have Gaius Furius Pacilus Fusus.

Dr Rad 22:19
Yeah, it's been ages since we had a Furius – whoo!

Dr G 22:23
A Furius returns.

Dr Rad 22:24
Yeah.

Dr G 22:25
And he was apparently also previously consul in 441, so this guy's gotta be getting on a little bit, because it's been a while.

Dr Rad 22:32
Yeah, it has.

Dr G 22:33
And he was also censor in 435. So they've done quite a few censorships as well. It's been, it's been tough times for the Romans. Our third military tribune with consular power is Marcus Postumius Albinus Regillensis. A new guy in town. Don't be fooled all of those names add up to somebody different. And Aulus Cornelius Cossus, the best looking Roman that everybody's ever known about.

Dr Rad 23:04
Absolutely.

Dr G 23:05
Very famous. Is this the year he's famous for?

Dr Rad 23:10
I think it might be. We also have a dictator, don't we?

Dr G 23:15
Yeah. So this year, it gets out of hand. So the thing that we tend to assume with military tribunes with consular power is that there is a lot of conflict going on, and Rome doesn't know how to deal with it anymore. And they need more consuls, essentially. And so they've whacked a whole bunch of those people into play. Turns out or it seems initially just from reading this list that that is not enough to deal with this situation and a dictator is required. And this is Mamercus Aemilius Mamercinus.

Dr Rad 23:45
A familiar name.

Dr G 23:46
Yeah, he was part of the special commission in 428. So just a couple of years ago, and you know this name crops up a little bit as well. Was he also the dictator of 437 and 434? Was he milit- was he military tribune in 438? It's a common name. So he has a master of the horse and we see very quickly the return of Aulus Cornelius Cossus getting apparently upgraded from a military tribune with consular power to master the horse.

Dr Rad 24:20
I think these guys are Batman and Robin I think that they are the dynamic duo of this decade.

Dr G 24:26
I can't possibly do it without your Cossus. Would you join me? Yes, sir.

Dr Rad 24:31
All right, well,

Dr G 24:32
oh wait oh wait, because apparently we also have a legate as well

Dr Rad 24:38
Okay

Dr G 24:39
Which is Titus Quinctius Poenas Cincinnatus. So, so we have this weird sort of, I would say just looking at this list that we are looking at some real confusion from our annalistic sources and our fasti source material. Very confusing. We've either got many people in multiple roles, or we've got a collapse in the chronology and people don't know how to separate the years out into the individual pieces, and they've just lumped them all in together and they're like, You know what? I'll make it work.

Dr Rad 25:13
Yeah, I think that you can see this very much, because if you actually look at what Livy says, rather than look at Broughton's record of the magistrates. Livy explicitly says that Titus Quinctius Poenas was consul in the previous year. So that's a bit weird. And then we've got Gaius Furius, Marcus Postumius, Aulua Cornelius Cossus all serving as military tribunes. Now, what they do is they're going to divide and conquer, Dr. G. So Cossus is placed in charge of the city of Rome itself, and the rest of the military tribunes start organising the levy because they of course, are going to go and kick Veii's butt and it is a big butt. There is a problem. Yeah, there is a problem. You've got three of these guys. They're, I imagine, pretty typical Roman elites. They're all very confident in their own opinion, and they refuse to compromise. And so they very quickly start disagreeing with each other, which means that there's a little sliver of light for the people of Veii, because this is going to be undermining for the whole Roman war effort. The army is really confused because they're being given different instructions, different orders, you know, some of them are saying, now go sound the charge other than saying no, not yet. Stay in place. It's just it's just a big mess where he's messy us at a time like this. He's the man has a job. Yeah. So the Romans are in terrible trouble. They flee back to their camp. They're not really physically injured or anything, but they are injured on the inside, because there is nothing more humiliating or shameful for a Roman soldier than having to tuck his tail between his legs and run back to his camp without having dominated over the entity.

Dr G 27:09
It is tough out there, isn't it.

Dr Rad 27:12
Yeah, so the Romans are sitting around, crushed, forlorn, heartbroken deal to lose They're the heroes in this story. They never lose.

Dr G 27:22
I got no spoils and I got nothing to send, ya.

Dr Rad 27:27
Now the people back in the city are so irritated. You can't explain how irritated they are with the military tribunes and they're like, you know what, forget you guys, you are useless. It's time for a dictator. Now, it seems like once again, we have a bit of an argument about exactly how or even if this could come about, some people were saying earlier consul can name a dictator. And do we have a consul? No, we do not.

Dr G 28:01
No, but we do have lots of military tribunes with consular power. And if they have the consular power, that might mean they're they're able to do the thing. And

Dr Rad 28:11
I think you're missing the point, they're not a consul.

Dr G 28:16
Well, what's the point of them having consular power if they can't use it? Dionysius of Halicarnassus does have a little excerpt here.

Dr Rad 28:26
Oh, okay.

Dr G 28:28
Yeah. And he talks about when Aulua Cornelius Cossus was consul for the second time.

Dr Rad 28:38
Okay.

Dr G 28:39
And that's problematic for a whole bunch of reasons.

Dr Rad 28:42
Sure.

Dr G 28:43
Partly because maybe what he goes on to say, should really go back to 428. Right, but we're in maybe 426 as well. So for instance, there's a whole bunch of sort of like Dionysius comes back, but like to what value because he talks about a land that has suffered from a severe drought, all the moisture, and the flowing streams have dried up so you know, the echoes of Livy here?

Dr Rad 29:16
Yeah, definitely.

Dr G 29:17
The sheep, beasts of burden, and cattle have disappeared.

Dr Rad 29:21
Oh, this all sounds very familiar. Don't take me back there!

Dr G 29:26
Humans have been visited by many diseases.

Dr Rad 29:28
Yeah, yeah. Deja vu.

Dr G 29:31
Particularly the mange

Dr Rad 29:34
oh my god,

Dr G 29:35
yeah, dreadful pains in the skin with its itchings and ulcerations, a most pitable affliction, and the cause of the speediest of deaths. I mean, it doesn't sound like mange, it sounds like Ebola, but I'll give it to them. They're calling it as they see it. But we have this issue because he talks about this is the time period when Cossus and Quinctius are consuls together.

Dr Rad 29:59
Hmm

Dr G 30:00
And that's that's a weird thing to say. But they're definitely both military tribunes with consular power right now.

Dr Rad 30:08
Yeah, look, I think I can help you out here. It's actually quite straightforward. Dionysius is wrong and Livy is right.

Dr G 30:15
Wow

Dr Rad 30:15
it's just really obvious and I'm glad I could clear it up for you and everyone.

Dr G 30:26
I don't know if I'm gonna buy what you're putting down but

Dr Rad 30:30
All right, is that is that all the Dionysius has to say?

Dr G 30:32
Yeah, look, I mean, things get pretty wayward for me in this year in terms of source material. Just to give you a sense of like, where this is going, I've got some Diodorus Siculus. I've got some Valerius Maximus, I've got some Frontinus. Two different passages from Frontinus. I've got Florus, I've got Aurelius Victor, Pseudo-Aurelius Victor and Orosius.

Dr Rad 30:55
Okay

Dr G 30:55
So it's all manner of craziness over here for like, trying to figure out what to do with this year. But it tells you that something's gonna happen, I think. And you might know what it is, even though I've got no idea despite all the sources I looked at.

Dr Rad 31:09
I think I do. So we've gotten this argument about whether you actually consul to name a dictator, so they ended up turning to the augurs which I thought would be something that would excite you. So, the augurs are a religious position, do you want to tell us a bit about what it is that they do? I had, I hear it's something to do with the bird life?

Dr G 31:31
Yeah, look, it's the sort of thing that could go wrong if you decide to not follow the rituals like they did a couple of years ago. You know, like, imagine if you decided to start reading the bird signs differently. The augurs have a very specific role. So part of it is dividing up the sky into quadrants, first of all, and then looking and observing the way that birds move in the sky to determine the will of the gods. And the reason why you might be like, I mean, I've seen birds fly, not that interesting. But one of the things that they're really interested in is those murmurations that you get of starlings as they shift through the air, which are really quite poetic and beautiful. And they're considered to tell us something, but they're interested in all variety of bird life really, vultures, eagles, whatever they can see, it's all got some sort of meaning. And the augurs have been integral to the Roman's self definition since time in memorial

Dr Rad 32:34
Indeed they have. So the augurs are consulted, and they make sure that the signs say that it is not only a council who could name a dictator.

Dr G 32:45
Well, that makes it easy.

Dr Rad 32:46
Yeah. So Aulua Cornelius Cossus picks Mamercus Aemilius as dictator and Mamercus Aemilius then names Cossus as his master of the horse. Aren't they are adorable.

Dr G 33:00
These two like, will you be my buddy? I'll be your buddy. If you'll be my buddy.

Dr Rad 33:05
It's a bromance to last the centuries, Dr G. Yeah. So now, just a bit of a recap here. Lest we forget the last time that we were talking about Mamercus Aemilius which okay, there are some question marks about whether we should have been talking about him in that time period. but we were, he was taken down by the censors in a pretty devastating way. He basically I mean, they basically took away some of his key rights as a citizen, like they kicked him out of his tribe.

Dr G 33:35
Intense.

Dr Rad 33:37
Yeah.

Dr G 33:38
But he seems to have bounced back from this.

Dr Rad 33:41
Well, this is the thing Livy comments that this guy was so amazing, that he just rises to the top when it's a dangerous time for Rome. You know, I mean, suck it censors. The best revenge is a life well lived. You know, you can't take it away from me.

Dr G 33:58
He must be charismatic, I'm guessing.

Dr Rad 34:01
I think so. Livy was all over him the last time like when we were talking about what the census did to him live, he was clearly devastated. And now he's all happy again. Anyway, the people have they are thrilled in the meantime, because they've done so well against Rome. They're like, oh, my god, this is amazing. So they send out word to other Etruscan cities, they're like, yeah, we didn't just take down one Roman commander, we took down three in just one battle, only. The Etruscans are not interested. They're like, whatever.

Dr G 34:35
I wonder what the Etruscans by and large, are really doing. I mean, we know that they're located generally, to the north, but Veii is like their most southern significant outpost. Yeah. And they really don't tend to do a lot of reinforcement, or at least not in this period.

Dr Rad 34:52
Look, let that be a lesson to you. It's the same issues that the Greeks had: unity. Unity is what is important. Don't go back to each other up because you do anyway. So the Etruscans are not interested. However, there are some people who are interested in joining their cause because of course, whenever there's this kind of thing going on, like reading whatever, there is bougie aplenty for everyone. So officially, not many people are interested, but there are some. And would you be shocked to know that one of the places that decide that they might join in is none other than Fidenae?

Dr G 35:35
Oh, colour me surprised. This is a turn in the narrative I was not expecting.

Dr Rad 35:40
Yep. So Fidenae. I mean, god, what is it at this point in time, it's been going backwards and forwards with its allegiances so many times between Rome and the people of Veii I can't even tell what ethnicity the people there would have been.

Dr G 35:55
Look like everybody in this region. They're Italians.

Dr Rad 35:59
Okay, yes. Anyway, so they decided they're going to throw their lot in with Veii. Again, because it went so well, the last time.

Dr G 36:07
Well look, to be honest, I think Fidenae had been pretty consistent in their desire to get away from Rome for at least a few years now. And they've been forced and coerced by the Romans back into the fold. And at every opportunity, they'd be like, nah, I'm with those guys.

Dr Rad 36:25
How dare you provide an anti imperial narrative when I'm trying to make Rome look good?

Dr G 36:32
I've got nothing to say to that.

Dr Rad 36:34
Dad, dad, dad, dad out data.

Dr G 36:38
I mean, anyway, they're working on it.

Dr Rad 36:41
Anyway, so Fidenae, obviously, as you say, not happy with what's going on. But they decided to do it in style, just like they did the first time. So lest we forget, the really big conflict that we talked about, which may or may not have happened about 10 years ago, was really kicked off when the people of Fidenae murdered the Roman ambassadors. This time, they decide they're going to slaughter all the new settlers.

Dr G 37:11
Well, well, well, I mean, yeah, this is bad news. But it does echo very nicely what has previously happened.

Dr Rad 37:22
Yeah, I mean, I think we can understand why scholars are like, what is going on here? Did this really happen again? Or is there some confusion in the narrative because there are a lot of similar notes that are being struck here.

Dr G 37:37
And there's also the sense of like, I mean, this is yet again, another candidate for the year that Cossus does the business with killing Lars Tolumnius? That guy keeps coming back from the dead. Tell you what,

Dr Rad 37:52
Well he hasn't been mentioned by name. But yes. Anyway, so there's a bit of a debate about where they're going to set up their headquarters. Veii or Fidenae, but they decided that Fidenae was more suitable. So the people of Veii head on over there and set up. The Romans are freaking out.

Dr G 38:09
And this and fair enough, because it's on. As I've noted before, like Fidenae sits on the opposite side of the Tiber, from Veii, which means that it technically sits on the Roman side of the Tiber. And the Tiber is considered this, like, you know, the point between the two territories. And so if you've got that foothold in Fidenae and the Fidenese, like let down their little bridge, or whatever, or the who knows how they did it, and they're like, come across, Veii come across, it's like you're letting the foxes into the chicken coop of Rome.

Dr Rad 38:47
Yeah, I get ya. So Veii recall their forces from Veii who aren't in a great mood. They're pretty depressed, to be honest. Because things haven't gone well until then. And they set up camp just outside the Colline gate. One of the many ways that you can get into Rome which apparently is walls at this point in time,

Dr G 39:07
Well, yeah, and they and the Colline gate is at that side of room that will lead them directly to Fidenae. So all makes sense.

Dr Rad 39:14
Yeah, absolutely. So they make sure everything's pretty fortified. You know, they do the typical thing arms, men placed along the walls. They also kind of say, right, everybody stop what you're doing. Pay attention. So business in the courts stop shops close. Livy says that Rome ends up looking more like a military camp than a city at this point in time. The dictator now starts to get down to what he was brought in to do in the first place. He dispatches heralds to go through all the streets of Rome, to round them all up because they're all terrified and cowering. Take them to an assembly. When they get there. He is furious with them for being so quick to think that Rome is actually going to be defeated. How dare they? Rome had beaten Veii six times and captured Fidenae so many times he can't even count for heaven's sakes. Get a grip. And they didn't lose just recently because their army was weak. They lost because their commanders were arguing. Big difference.

Dr G 40:13
And now, now they have a dictator, there's gonna be no more arguing and only victory.

Dr Rad 40:32
Exactly. And he says, You just wait guys, you will see that the men who appointed me as dictator have done an amazing thing for Rome because I am awesome. Everybody thinks so. Especially Livy!

Dr G 40:46
Also Cossus the man who appointed him.

Dr Rad 40:49
Exactly and those who tried to ruin him had done the biggest disservice to the state. Hint, hint, censors, need some ointment for that burn. So Mamercus then makes an offering to the gods. Again, this is all sounding very familiar, but not not like it's not standard practice. I was gonna say

Dr G 41:13
I mean, I mean that's familiar but to be expected.

Dr Rad 41:16
Yes, absolutely. Marches out sets up camp near Fidenae, make sure that he is shielded by mountains on one side and protected by the Tiber on the other so strategically sound position, he orders his lieutenant to secure the mountains and to secretly sneak sneak sneak occupy the riches behind the enemy. So that's Titus Quinctius Poenas. So he puts on his sneakers, he gets all the men following him to put on their sneakers. And they are, are over to that location. So the next day, the enemy are feeling pretty confident because of course of everything that's been happening, they're ready to fight. The Romans are like, you got lucky. Thank you very much. Mamercus, however, he is not going to be rushed by these people. He's not impetuous, he is wise. So he's going to wait until he's got all his ducks lined up in a row. He needs to make sure that Quinctius has made it to the ridge so that he's secretly in position.

Dr G 42:22
Yeah, it's one of those powerful thing