The Naked Bible Podcast

During the recent annual meetings for biblical studies scholars held in San Antonio, Dr. Heiser interviewed a number of scholars about their recent work. In Part 2 of those interviews, we meet Dr. Andy Naselli (New Testament professor at Bethlehem College and Seminary), Mike Licona (Theology professor at Houston Baptist University), Dr. Sam Lamerson (President & New Testament professor, Knox Theological Seminary), and Kyle Greenwood (Old Testament professor at Colorado Christian University).  

During the recent annual meetings for biblical studies scholars held in San Antonio, Dr. Heiser interviewed a number of scholars about their recent work. In this first installment, we hear from Dr. Carl Sanders and Thomas Hudgens (respectively, professors of Theology and New Testament at Lancaster Bible College & Graduate School), and Randall Price of World of the Bible Ministries.

Dr. Heiser answers your questions.

Ezekiel 18 focuses on one central idea: individual accountability for one’s own sinfulness. The chapter opens with God’s rejection of the pervasive Israelite idea that the suffering of one generation is the result of the sins of previous generations. The message God wants to communicate through the prophet is that the Israelites in captivity in Babylon and those about to suffer the destruction of Jerusalem have no one but themselves to blame. But yet the idea of corporate responsibility and the effects of sin being felt “unto the third and fourth generation” is found in the Torah. This episode discusses how individual and corporate responsibility are complementary, not contradictory.

Everyone interested in the study of Scripture wants to feel adequate to the task. But there are many obstacles—real and merely imagined—to being competent in Bible study. In this episode Dr. Heiser interviews his long-time friend and colleague, Johnny Cisneros. With skills in biblical language study and doctoral candidate status in instructional design, Johnny Cisneros is the perfect person to not only help people think better about strategies and tools for Bible study, but to also produce something useful to everyone who wants to develop Bible study skills. The discussion focuses on studying Greek and Hebrew words and a new video course developed by Johnny Cisneros that is about to launch. URL for course: biblewordnerd.com

Ezekiel 17 presents a riddle or parable of two eagles about the treachery of Zedekiah, the puppet governor appointed by Nebuchadnezzar to replace Jehoiachin, the Judahite king taken captive in an earlier wave of exile of which Ezekiel had been a part. Zedekiah would be captured in the last phase of exile, the destruction of Jerusalem, in 586 B.C. Part of the riddle includes messianic language of the branch, verbiage that takes this episode’s discussion into the Bible’s adaptation of the ancient omphalos (“navel of the earth”) myth. Articles on the omphalos / “navel of the earth” motif: Alexander, Philip S. “Jerusalem as the Omphalos of the World: On the History of a Geographical Concept.” Judaism 46, no. 2 (1997): 147–58. Terrien, Samuel L. “Omphalos Myth and Hebrew Religion.” Vetus Testamentum 20, no. 3 (1970): 315–38. Wensinck, A. J. The Ideas of the Western Semites Concerning the Navel of the Earth. Amsterdam: Johannes Müller, 1916. (public domain)

Ezekiel 16 is known for being the most sexually explicit chapter in the Bible. Some scholars even consider it pornographic. The prophet casts the city of Jerusalem as a whore when articulating why God has condemned it and marked it for destruction. This episode explores the portrayal of spiritual apostasy as wanton whoredom in all its ugliness—and God’s amazing ability to forgive in spite of it.

The words of Ezekiel 14-15 were addressed to Jewish elders in Babylon who had come to Ezekiel for a word from the Lord. Knowing they were still idol worshippers in their hearts, God refused to give them comfort. Instead he lowered the boom: Jerusalem’s judgment was certain. God’s case is presented in language drawn from Leviticus 26, which had foreshadowed Israel’s apostasy and expulsion from the land. This episode focuses on this vocabulary and a special interpretive problem of Ezekiel 14.

The prophet Ezekiel has telegraphed the doom of Jerusalem in a series of visual re-enactment signs, visions, and prophetic oracles. Chapters 12-13 continue with more sign acts, but shifts to God’s assessment of objections by the exiles as to the certainty of Jerusalem’s fate. God therefore directs Ezekiel to demolish the idea that “We have heard all this doom and gloom before, but nothing ever happens.”

Fern and Audrey return with an update on their work with ritual abuse survivors, and introduce a colleague (“Beth”) who does the same work. Beth tells listeners her own story of growing up in “traditional” deliverance ministry, and how her approach to helping survivors now is different in light of the divine council worldview. Fern & Audrey are no longer associated with Discovering Mercy. Fern & Audrey are still helping survivors. You can contact them at [email protected]

Ezekiel 10-11 are the concluding chapters to a prophetic vision that began in chapter 8. In this episode we discover how these chapters provide more Godhead talk from the Old Testament and the departure of the glory of God from the temple.

Dr. Heiser answers your questions.   links referenced: Romans 5:12 and the fate of the unborn, aborted, those who cannot believe Dissociative Disorder Link to Mike’s recommended reading for 2nd Temple Jewish Literature (not mentioned on the show)… links to two annotated bibliographies on 2nd Temple Jewish Literature: Part 1 – bibliography Part 2 – bibliography

Ezekiel 8 and 9 falls in the section of Ezekiel that concerns two themes: the punishment of Jerusalem and the departure of the glory of God. In Chapter 8 we’re introduced to some specific points of Israelite idolatry – worship of Asherah and worshipping the creator as though he were part of creation. Ezekiel 9 hearkens back to our earlier episode about God keeping a record of the faithful. The judgment vision also takes us back to similar events like the death angel at Passover.

Having performed a series of sign acts dramatizing the demise of Jerusalem and the temple in (Ezek 4-5) and explaining the justification for God’s punishment (Ezek 6), in Ezekiel 7 the prophet tries to jolt the exiles with the reality of the impending doom. Ezekiel 7’s main feature is its dramatic repetition of doom, a feature necessitated by the belief of many Israelites in the inviolability of Zion. Ezekiel disabuses his hearers of that myth in Chapter 7.

Chapter 6 of the book of Ezekiel focuses on the primary reason for Judah’s exile: idolatry. This episode discusses the vocabulary used by Ezekiel for idolatry and spiritual apostasy and its links back to passages like Leviticus 26, which connect occupation of the Promised Land to believing loyalty to Yahweh alone. pdfs referenced: HIGH PLACES IDOLS

These two chapters of Ezekiel confront the reader with a series of “sign acts” on the part of the prophet. These signs are dramatic visualizations of events that are or will befall Jerusalem at the hands of the Babylonians. They present a range of interpretive problems that are discussed in this episode. pdf referenced: Ezekiel 4-5

The second and third chapters of Ezekiel continue the episode of his call as a prophet. This episode of the podcast focuses on some interpretive issues in the chapters as well as some divine council elements that get less attention than chapter 1.

The vision of Ezekiel 1 (also described in Ezekiel 10) is one of the more famous passages in the Bible. It’s also one of the most misunderstood. In this episode Dr. Heiser explains what we’re looking at in Ezekiel 1 and what it means. Along the way, it will be clear that Ezekiel isn’t describing a flying saucer or anything that would have been unfamiliar to an Israelite. We can know what Ezekiel saw because of the iconography (artwork) of the day that has survived and also because of its close connections to other Old Testament passages. paper referenced: Ezekiel 1 PDF

This episode marks the beginning of the Naked Bible Podcast series on the book of Ezekiel. Several characteristics set Ezekiel off from the rest of the classical (“Writing”) prophets: the prophet’s bizarre behavior, the use of symbols and symbolic acts, and the emphasis on the Spirit. This episode introduces the prophet and what to expect as we explore the book in future series episodes.

Our 15th Question and Answer episode!

In view of Mike’s work on the divine council and Psalm 82 in his best-selling book, The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible, many have asked what’s going on in John 10, where Jesus defends his deity by quoting Psalm 82. The consensus interpretation has the gods of Psalm 82 as only people – Jewish elders or Israelites at Sinai (both of which are unmentioned in Psalm 82). How does that approach make sense when Jesus needs to defend statements of equality with the Father elsewhere in the chapter (John 10:30, 38)? Mike’s view is that such an approach makes no sense at all – and that there is much more coherent alternative. Mike laid out his view in a conference paper accessible on the Unseen Realm’s companion website (Chapter 4 tab). Mike’s slide presentation: or download powerpoint slideshow here

Our 14th Question and Answer episode!

This episode continues and concludes our discussion on the book of Obadiah, with an emphasis on its foretelling of Edom’s doom and how that prophecy was – and will be – fulfilled.

Chances are good that you’ve never read the book of Obadiah. If you have, you likely haven’t given it much thought. In this first of two episodes devoted to the book, we get a bird’s eye view of what Obadiah is about and why it’s important for forming our theological thinking in some unexpected ways.

Our 13th Question and Answer episode! paper and video referenced: Heiser OT Response to Pagan Divination  

On a previous episode, Mike interview Rick Brannan on how we got the New Testament Testament and why conspiratorial ideas about the Greek New Testament are bogus. In this episode the Old Testament gets equal time. Mike overviews how the OT books were composed, edited, received, transmitted by scribes, and published to the present day (with a little Dead Sea Scrolls conspiracy debunking along the way). Article referenced: Inspiration, Inerrancy, and The OT Canon: The Place Of Textual Updating In An Inerrant View Of Scripture

Many Bible students find the episode in Numbers 21:1-9 confusing. Why would God tell Moses to make a bronze serpent (nachash)? Did God forget about the serpent of Genesis 3? Why would Jesus compare his impending death on the cross to the bronze serpent? This episode asks whether these ideas are in fact connected and how the serpent in the wilderness episode should be interpreted.

It’s common among Christians to interpret Paul’s statement that “all Israel will be saved” (Rom 11:25-26) to refer to mean that national Israel will be saved by God in the end or that all Jews will eventually turn to the messiah in the end times. But is that what Paul meant? How would we know? This episode discusses Paul’s statement and these questions. Links referenced: Summary of Christopher Zoccali, “And So All Israel Will be Saved: Competing Interpretations of Romans 11.26 in Pauline Scholarship,” Journal for the Study of the New Testament, 2008: 289-317 Staples’ article: Jason A. Staples, “What Do the Gentiles Have to Do with “All Israel”? A Fresh Look at Romans 11:25–27,” Journal of Biblical Literature 130:2 (2011): 371-390

Lots of Christians interested in prophecy talk about the tribulation period (aka, the “Great Tribulation”), but they never seem to get around to asking where the idea comes from. In this episode we explore the development of the eschatological tribulation idea in Second Temple Jewish literature up to and including the time of Jesus. Surprisingly, asking what the tribulation meant in the actual New Testament era is a recent strategy of scholars – and something that never happens in popular prophecy teaching.

We reached a milestone and celebrated with our listeners. Thanks to all who sent in their thoughts. It’s gratifying for both Trey and myself to be helpful to those who care about biblical content. Thank you for listening to The Naked Bible Podcast God bless…

How did we get the New Testament? This episode is in response to listener requests. Mike and Trey interview Rick Brannan, the information specialist for Greek New Testament products and databases at Logos Bible Software, about how we got the New Testament, the KJV-only idea, and conspiratorial views about the history and transmission of the Greek New Testament. We also talk about tools for learning about the Greek New Testament and its vocabulary. Rick is the general editor of the Lexham English Septuagint, translator of The Apostolic Fathers in English, and author of Greek Apocryphal Gospels, Fragments, and Agrapha. Links: Summary of how the Byzantine-Majority Text (and the Textus Receptus) gets defended against the Alexandrian. Drawn from D. A Carson, The King James Version Debate, A Plea for Realism, (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1986), pp. 39-78 Codex Sinaiticus Rick’s personal blog: http://rickbrannan.com Rick’s Twitter: @RickBrannan Publisher: http://appianwaypress.com (Appian Way Press) Lexical Commentary on the Pastoral Epistles: First Timothy Publisher page: https://appianwaypress.com/lcpe-first-timothy/ Second Timothy: Notes on Grammar, Structure, and Syntax Publisher page: https://appianwaypress.com/second-timothy-notes/

In this episode Mike and Trey talk with Tim Andrews and Rich Baker about alternative ways to think about church – specifically, if church wasn’t a time or a place, what would that be like? Tim Andrews currently lives in Atlanta, GA, and has been in leadership in alternative church communities for over twenty years. Rich Baker has a long history in ministry to the homeless and other marginalized communities in the US and abroad. Many who listen to the podcast feel displaced from church and have expressed the desire to connect with likeminded people. This episode focuses on how the traditional modern church model can either be supplemented or replaced with Christian fellowship that builds a sense of family and is serious about biblical content.

Our 12th Question and Answer episode!

Our 11th Question and Answer episode! Link referenced: AllAboutGod.com

This episode invites David Burnett back to the podcast for a discussion of his research on 1 Cor 15:35-50. In an earlier episode on this chapter, we talked about the meaning of Paul’s phrase “the spiritual body.” This time around, David draws our attention to the listing of “bodies” (celestial vs. earthly) in vv. 35-41 and asks: (1) what part of the OT is Paul drawing on for this list and (2) why would Paul bother to bring up this list in a discussion of the resurrection. The answers will blow your mind, as the listing derives from, and connects into, a number of well-known divine council passages. Once you hear David’s explanation of the most important text on the resurrection in the entire New Testament, 1 Corinthians 15, you will never read it the same way again. If you’ve ever wondered how the divine council worldview relates to New Testament theology, this is an episode for you. To invite David to speak at your church, conference, or event email him at [email protected] or on Facebook here. To support David’s ministry – click here.

Biblical scholars know that Paul subordinates the Law to Christ (Gal 3:1-18). He writes about how the Law could not result in the fruition of the promises given to Abraham (and, by extension, to all nations; Gen 12:1-3). Paul then asks “Why then was the law given?” He answers that it was “added because of transgressions” (Gal 3:19). The most common assumption is that this (somehow) means the Law was a response to Adam’s sin, or human sins. But, and Adam sinned only once so far as the Bible tells us. Opting for the law being added in response to human sins doesn’t address why humanity became so wicked that it needed the law. Most Christians would defer to Adam’s transgression at this point, but there is no Romans 5:12 in Galatians (Romans is a later epistle). This episode takes a minority view of Paul’s statement about the addition of the law—at least among Christians. This view, however, reflects the viewpoint of nearly every Second Temple Jewish text (Paul’s era) known to exist that comments on human depravity: that the Law was added to restrain human evil, which proliferated not because of Adam, but because of the sin of the Watchers in Gen 6:1-4.

The book we know as 1 Enoch was well known to early Christians. Its importance produced an understandable question among some influential early Christian writers and, one may presume, Christians in general: Should 1 Enoch be considered inspired and thus “Scripture” in the manner of other books in the Old Testament? Ultimately, Christianity at large answered this question negatively, save for the Church in Ethiopia. But the discussion is nonetheless of interest today. This episode presents an abbreviated survey of how select Second Temple Jews and early Christian books and writers assessed the scriptural status of 1 Enoch. Google Book referenced: James C. VanderKam, “1 Enoch, Enochic Motifs, and Enoch in Early Christian Literature,” Pages 33-101 in James C. VanderKam and William Adler, eds., The Jewish Apocalyptic Heritage in Early Christianity (Compendia rerum iudaicarum ad Novum Testamentum 3/4; Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1996). paper referenced: Nickelsburg Knowledge of Enoch and Watchers Story in Early Judaism and Christianity

Ezekiel 28:14, 16 describe an “anointed cherub” who walked in the midst of “the stones of fire” and was removed from among “the stones of fire.” What are the stones of fire? What do these verses describe? How do the phrases relate to what’s going on in Ezekiel 28 and its “twin,” Isaiah 14? blog post referenced

Our 10th Question and Answer episode!

This episode discusses why hellfire in the New Testament is associated with “the devil and his angels” (Matt 25:41). Where does that idea come from? There are in fact earlier books that are the basis for this language—inside and outside the Old Testament.

There are over a dozen references in the Old and New Testaments to “books” in heaven. The idea of such books extends back to Sumer and Mesopotamian (“tablets of destinies”). In this episode, we trace the lineage of the idea through ancient Near Eastern examples, the Old Testament, 2nd temple Jewish texts, and the New Testament. Are these records “real time” record keeping? Proof of predestination?

This episode focuses on Paul’s language, in 1 Cor 15 and elsewhere, about the “spiritual body” of the resurrected Jesus—a body that believers will also share. In Paul’s day, Gentiles (Greco-Roman culture) and Jews (OT) both believed that gods had bodies — not made of flesh and blood, but of something that was superior to flesh and blood. In other words, gods weren’t simply formless, substance-less “energy” or spirit. Paul taught that Christians would one day share Christ’s body—that they would have the same sort of body.

There is no direct talk in the Old Testament about the messiah, the son of David, would cast out demons. Yet that title (“son of David”) is found only in the synoptic gospels in association with Jesus’ healing and demonic exorcisms. While healing is a clear part of the messianic profile in the Old Testament, exorcising demons is not. What predisposed first century Jews to the idea that the Davidic messiah would cast out demons? How was that part of the messianic profile?

This episode begins a series of topical episodes following the end of our series on Leviticus. The topic for this episode is the controversial head covering reference in 1 Cor. 11:13-15. The discussion summarizes the material discussed in a scholarly journal article published in 2004 by Dr. Troy Martin entitled, “Paul’s Argument from Nature for the Veil in 1 Cor. 11:13-15: A Testicle instead of a Head Covering” (Journal of Biblical Literature 123:1 [2004]: 75-84). Martin summarizes his approach as follows: “This article interprets Paul’s argument from nature in 1 Cor. 11:13-15 against the background of ancient physiology. The Greek and Roman medical texts provide useful information for interpreting not only Paul’s letters but also other NT texts.” The article (and the author’s subsequent responses to criticism, also published in academic literature) presents a compelling case and is, to Dr. Heiser’s knowledge, the only approach that provides a coherent explanation as to why the head covering warnings are important, in the words of Paul “because of the angels” (1 Cor. 11:10). This warning ultimately takes readers back to the incident with the Watchers (sons of God) in Gen. 6:1-4. One of Martin’s concluding application thoughts is also important: “Since the physiological conceptions of the body have changed, however, no physiological reason remains for continuing the practice of covering women’s heads in public worship, and many Christian communities reasonably abandon this practice.” In other words, Paul’s rationale for what he says here is no longer coherent today — but his teaching points are (modesty, sexual fidelity). As such, wearing veils (in church or elsewhere) is a conscience issue, not a point of doctrine. The nature of this material is overtly sexual, so this episode is for adult listeners. Papers referenced: Paul’s argument from nature for the veil in 1 Corinthians 11.13-15: A Testicle instead of a Head Covering Why Should Women Cover their Heads bc of the Angels

Our 9th Question and Answer episode! Also find out what topics are next for the podcast. to support our show go to: our Support page Harvey book on term Jew: Graham Harvey, The True Israel: Uses of the Names Jew, Hebrew, and Israel in Ancient Jewish and Early Christian Literature (Brill, 2001)

This episode covers Leviticus 26-27, bringing our study of Leviticus to a close. Our focus is primarily a question raised by Lev 26 — whether the offer of restoration to Yahweh (and thus to the land) described in Lev 26:40-42 is being fulfilled now or is yet to be fulfilled. The episode also addresses the reference to Sabbath cycles in Lev 26 and the “offering of people” to the sanctuary in Lev 27.

This episode discusses items in three chapters of Leviticus including how Leviticus 23 conceptualizes the Sabbath, how its description of Israelite feasts and festivals diverges with other passages in the Torah, the imagery of the “shewbread” (“bread of the Presence”), the principle of lex talionis, and the concept of jubilee in Leviticus 25 and other sources, such as the New Testament and the Dead Sea Scrolls. paper referenced: Wacholder Chronomessianism The Timing of Messianic Movements and Calendar of Sabbatical Cycles

Our 8th Question and Answer episode! to support our show go to: our Support page

Leviticus 21-22 overlaps a great deal with earlier material in Leviticus. This episode focuses on certain mourning rites and Israel’s need to maintain a holiness distinction from pagan religions in that regard. Of special interest in this episode is Lev 21:5 (cp. Lev 19:26-28), a passage many use to condemn tattooing. papers referenced: Roberts A New Parallel to 1Kgs18 Gevaryahu Lev1928 Tattooing or Branding

This episode covers two chapters in Leviticus, chapters 19-20. Leviticus 19 is essentially a mini-Torah of sorts, in that it mimes a number of the Ten Commandments and a wide range of laws and commandments that are representative of the overall Torah. Chapter 20 re-articulates much of Leviticus 18 with respect to prohibitions of certain sexual behaviors. More specifically, the episode devotes time to the issue of why “mixtures” are prohibited (e.g., sexual relationships, fabrics, animal breeding, planting) and how those prohibitions reflect the supernatural worldview of the Old Testament. paper referenced: Heiser OT Response to Pagan Divination