The Meaning Code

Jump to 3:20. If you want the intro of my guests, start at the beginning. Episode is also on YouTubeDr. Michael Levin, developmental biologist and pioneer in the area of morphogenesis and regenerative possibilities meets with Matthew Segall, a philosopher who sees Alfred North Whitehead's cosmology as a way forward in healing the rift between philosophy and science. They discuss the role of behavior, environment, time and necessity in shaping life. Timestamps and links follow description. The relationship between philosophy and science is tied together now by the work in developmental biology. Advances in science can help to sharpen philosophical categories. Plato's static view of forms and Aristotle's great chain of being need to be revolutionized to account for the emergence of forms in evolutionary history. Mechanistic science has been successful in terms of instrumental knowledge, but has left out formal and final causes. Whitehead's view of evolution as an accumulation of facts in the past and a field of possible forms in the future was discussed, as well as the agency that is needed to search this field of possibilities. Perhaps the environment is massively underdetermined, but pattern memory can be visualized and rewritten. Finally, Levin posited that "proof of humanity" must be related to the level of compassion, ability and existential struggles that humans have. Timestamps are from YouTube video and will be off by 15 seconds.Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:20 Question regarding Michael Levin's view of the relationship of philosophy and science. 06:15 Developmental biology is the key to looking at the relationship between philosophy and science. 22:30 Whitehead's injunction to take self-organization seriously 28:30 Free energy principle and the agency of the environment 28:50 The environment is massively under-determined 32:45 Engineering protocols. What do I need to know in that spacetime environment to most optimally relate to that system? 33:45 How Whitehead might relate to the idea of cognitive light cones 47:55 Anomaly 51:30 Determinism is a side effect of the deistic hangover of Newton and Descartes The Observer is within the world being observed, and has an impact on it. 55:40 Mechanistic cosmology is deism, basically. We need a new metaphysic. 58:30 We are more than just perceiving beings 1:01:45 Every cell is trying to behavior shape its neighbors 1:11:00 The Logos as ordering principle 1:13:20 Ingression of relevant novelty The relationship between perception, agency, and intelligence as collective efforts. 1:16:10 Does the prompting of the oak tree leaf presuppose that the subroutine that creates the gall is already present in the leaf? 1:20:00 When a salamander regrows a limb, is that a memory capacity? 1:22:50 Energetic transmission is a kind of vector feeling (Whitehead) What is the Place of Thinking, Feeling, and Willing in Nature? 1:23:50 The project is the sentience of physics and the physics of sentience 1:24:34 The distinction between control and relationship The Paradigms of Control v. Relationship The Spectrum of Persuadability Levels of Controllability 1:28:50 Ethical considerations and the movement from force to persuasion Michael Levin's website: https://allencenter.tufts.edu Matthew Segall's website: https://footnotes2plato.com Books by Matthew Segall: https://footnotes2plato.com/books/ Michael Levin's TAME paper (scroll down for Figure 1): https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnsys.2022.768201/full

Balazs Kegl, a computer scientist with a PhD in AI joins today for a discussion about recognizing the danger inherent in the fears that surround the rapid development of AI. Also available on Youtube.A wide ranging conversation that includes ideas that come from the following resources: Balazs Kegl's Substack: https://balazskegl.substack.com/p/the-case-for-aligning-the-ai-scientist The AI Dilemma: https://youtu.be/xoVJKj8lcNQ Alignment experiments, here both the text and the video are vital. https://community.openai.com/t/agi-alignment-experiments-foundation-vs-instruct-various-agent-models/21031 John Vervaeke on AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-_RdKiDbz4 Quote from Martin Shaw: "Limit is the difference between growth and death."

Matt Segall weaves together the thought of Descartes, Kepler and Alfred North Whitehead in a deep synthesis with biology, physics, cognitive science and theology. Timestamps in comments. Matt Segall's website is full of great resources, videos, articles, online classes, etc. https://footnotes2plato.com/about/ His article, the Universe as a Work of Art: Images of the Cosmos in Plato Descartes and Kepler: https://footnotes2plato.com/2011/08/16/the-universe-as-a-work-of-art/ Matt's conversation with John Vervaeke from 2020: https://youtu.be/FHkIi1KZ_qk Karen's discussion of sacrifice, actuality and potential: https://youtu.be/6cbq4u2C8dk Books by Matt Segall: The Re-Emergence of Schelling https://www.amazon.com/Re-Emergence-Schelling-Philosophy-Time-Emergency/dp/3659524247/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1YUDK81UL6L8H&keywords=Matthew+Segall+books&qid=1659564534&sprefix=matthew+segall+books%2Caps%2C111&sr=8-5 Physics and the World Soul https://www.amazon.com/Physics-World-Soul-Whiteheads-Adventure-Cosmology/dp/1948609363/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2KBIGXS0BZ3YN&keywords=Matt+Segall&qid=1659564377&sprefix=matt+segall%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-4 The simplification of Wolfram's Theory by Mark Jeffery: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClX6kNQ9Kt3LL6kLd4hC7sQ/videos

Timestamps 00:00 Introduction 05:32 Geeky Kid to Engineer: Ian Glendinning's Journey Ian Glendinning is an engineer from the northeast of England who has had a long career in the energy business. He grew up as a geeky kid, reading Jacob Bronofsky's Ascent of Man and excelling in STEM subjects. 14:41 Exploring the Complexities of Information Management Ian Glendinning and Karen Wong discuss the complexities of information management, from the physical technology mismatch between office-based design and hands-on construction to the need for digital twins and sophisticated models to capture the relationships between physical items. They also explore the challenges of using AI to discover patterns and relationships in free-form text. Managing Information23:41 Exploring the Difference between a Spade and a Shovel and how this difference can be used to illustrate the complexity of writing specifications. They also explore the implications of this complexity in the civil engineering and aerospace industries, and how it has led to a shift in thinking about physical models of the world. 28:09 Exploring the Concepts of Cybernetics and Systems Thinking, including the differences between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd order thinking, the role of feed forward and feedback loops, and the functional relations between internal and external systems. The application of these concepts to the example of a watch, and the difficulties of multitasking with multiple screens. Cybernetics 35:03 Exploring the Relationship between Physical and Functional Relationships including the idea that physical relationships are better thought of in terms of what they do, rather than what they physically are. They explore the concept of scalability, and how it applies to metaphysics and pre-intellectual societies. They also discuss the idea of mutuality in experiencing, and how it relates to observer disturbance. Functional Relationships 43:11 Examining the Relationship Between Actions and Beliefs Values are betrayed by one's actions, and that in the last few hundred years, people have become more focused on intellectual identification than on direct participatory actions. They also discuss the importance of understanding the intent behind a piece of information, and the potential for hidden agendas. 46:43. Comparing the Perspectives of Iain Mcgilchrist and Mark Solms on Brain, Mind, and Consciousness They note that the two are friends, but have not referenced each other's work in any published paper or book. Ian Glendinning suggests that the two are both right, but have slightly different perspectives on the matter. They also discuss the scalability of this kind of thinking and how it relates to industrial information modeling..

Karen and Matt discuss reality, transhumanism, attention and habit formation. The Mary Harrington video clip starts at around 25:00: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufy9t-VLrzU&t=1503s The video w Jonathan Pageau, beginning at about 18:00, but the whole thing is great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbZk_YDex2E&t=2s The video on bacteria I mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXWurAmtf78 The prayer book Matt mentioned, Orthodox Christian Prayers: https://stmpress.com/ Maximos the Confessor, The Ambigua, Volume 1: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674726666

Matt and I explore the concepts of rootedness versus stuckness, and discuss how these might work out in the idea of marriage, not just the covenant of marriage, but the way that the idea of marriage is near the very beginning of everything. The summary from AI.Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:21 Discussing the Concepts of Being Rooted and Stuck00:06 Karen Wong and Matthew Dean Allison discuss two concepts that have come up in the last month since they last talked: being rooted and being stuck. They bring up a video that Matthew sent to Karen to illustrate the concept of being stuck and discuss how it relates to a parable from the Bible. They then decide to focus on the concept of being stuck and how it applies to their lives. 11:19 Exploring the Benefits of Marriage Over Cohabitation Karen - the advantages of marriage over cohabitation, with Karen sharing her own experience of a difficult first ten years of marriage and the helpful teachings of Bill and Annabelle Gilham on the sandpaper principle. They also explore the idea of making a vow to a partner as if it were a vow to God, and how relationships can be functional and essential like a tree in a thunderstorm. The Advantage of Being Stuck The purpose of marriage and how it helps each partner grow into who they are created to be. 20:24. Exploring the Impact of Social Media on Marriage & relationship Matt and Karen discuss the implications of social media on marriage, using the analogy of the WWE and chair shots. They explore how social media often only shows the "froth" of a marriage, and how this can lead to unrealistic expectations. They also discuss how in the past, private matters were kept private, but in the 21st century, this is no longer the case. 23:40. The importance of pursuing one's highest good in marriage and life. Discussing the importance of pursuing one's highest good in marriage and life. Mattemphasizes the importance of patience and practice in preparation for marriage, and the need to be aware of the dangers of social media in creating unrealistic expectations. 36:40 Exploring the Hierarchy of Values and the Marriage of Heaven and EarthThe hierarchy of values and the marriage of heaven and earth. They explore the idea of a meta space, where evolution can search for what it needs, and the concept of teleology. They also discuss the idea of marriage as a crucible, where two disparate things can come together to form something new. Finally, they consider the idea of the feminine archetype providing the question, and the masculine archetype providing the answer, and how this puts the horse in front of the cart. Hierarchy of Values 56:54. Exploring the Benefits of Discipline and Precision Matt discusses the importance of discipline and precision in achieving one's goals, comparing the process of lighting a candle to the rigors of a boot camp. He suggests that both approaches can be beneficial, and that everyone should strive to find their own path to realizing their own dignity. 1:00:12. Qualifying Human Interaction with the Veil of the Tabernacle Testimony Matt discusses the significance of the lighting of the lamps in front of the testimony or in front of the tent of testimony in Leviticus. He explains that the law exists to help us become aware of our human dignity and to approach the limit between us and God with qualification, drawing a comparison between this and the story of the wise and foolish virgins in the New Testament, noting that the foolish virgins were missing something important. 01:05:32. They discuss the importance of maintaining quality in life and how it is connected to creating energy. Chaos theory and the value of a root in its place. They explain that if you give up on quality, you start to degenerate and that it is important to build habits into your life that keep you on a quality track

Sevilla and Karen consider some of the main points from the recent conversation with D C Schindler and how his work may relate to the work of Robert Pirsig (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance). Here's the AI summary:-) Karen and Sevilla King discussed the idea that love is the source of all being, and that beauty is the interface with reality that allows us to recognize and love God. They discussed how beauty changes us inwardly and how it is received and transforms the appetite. How the left and right hemispheres of the brain work together to select from the menu of the universe. They also consider the difference between the visceral experience of love and the act of love, with Karen citing Scott Peck's book The Road Less Traveled to explain the biochemical and neurological response of cathexis. The idea of love is different for each person, and it is important to develop trust in order to stay in a relationship. Karen and Sevilla delve into the difference between being and becoming, and how God's love is an example of pure love that does not ask anything in return. They also discuss the idea of perfection and how it is an asymptotic relationship, and how the sophists believed in excellence above everything. They also touched on the challenges with striving for excellence, the personal God versus postmodernism, and the concept of projective geometry. The idea of the yoke, which is a symbol of a voluntary relationship between two people, and how it relates to striving for excellence. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 20:59 What is the sense that Schindler means by beauty? 55:23 How do we differentiate the love of God from the human experience of love? 01:19:28 What Was It About the Sophists That Makes Us Use the Word as a Pejorative? 01:35:03 What is the best way to go in a particular situation?

Karen and Ryan continue their discussion of Dorothy Sayers' classic, The Mind of the Maker, using Chapters 7 and 8 as a starting point. Here's the AI summary of the talk. Timestamps0:00 IntroReflections on a message about the hunger for righteousness and how it relates to impostor syndrome. How the law intensifies sin and how Eve chose to fill her hunger for righteousness with the knowledge of good and evil instead of companionship with God. How impostor syndrome can have both a good and bad side, and how it can be used to build the future. 12:46 An example journey of Resolving Resentment and Reconciliation In The Adam Project (a movie), Adam travels back in time to rescue his wife, but instead finds his twelve-year-old self. Through his journey, Adam learns to reconcile his resentment towards his father and to love his younger self. 19:35 God's Love in a Time of Need. Karen recounts a time four years ago when she experienced God's love in a time of need. She carried the scar as a wound of honor for a long time. This story serves as a reminder of God's love and protection in times of need. Exploring the idea of good and evil in the process of human creation

Bruce Ecker, MA, LMFT, Licensed Psychotherapist, joins the Meaning Code to discuss intersections of Coherence Therapy, Memory Reconsolidation and Listening with This Little Corner of the Internet. This episode is also on YouTube.He speaks of the indelibility of sub-cortical emotional conditioning but also the hope that there is a key to unlock, expose and ultimately nullify the emotional learning that lead to problems in later life.Timestamps may follow later, depending on how much time I have. But one great quote from poet, Robert Bly:"Maturity is an increase in the range of conditions that you experience as workable."Link to Bruce's new book, Listening: https://a.co/d/5W1oIoCBruce's organization: https://coherencetherapy.org/contact.htm

Stephen and Karen read and discuss Psalm 22 in preparation for Easter

D. C. Schindler joins Karen and Michael to discuss his book, Love and the Postmodern Predicament. We talk about the centrality of love and beauty, and of the nature of Being and Becoming. D. C. Schindler is professor of metaphysics and anthropology at the John Paul II Institute, Washington, DC. He is the author of eleven books, including Plato's Critique of Impure Reason, Freedom from Reality: The Diabolical Character of Modern Liberty, and many others.

Brad, a mechanical designer with an interest in measurement, and Ira, a physicist working in fluid mechanics with an interest in Austrian economics, join Karen to discuss Roy Sebag's new book, The Natural Order of Money. This episode is also on Youtube at The Meaning code channel.Along the way, we discuss time, measurement, inflation, economic stability and instability and digital currency v. gold as a standard. Previous videos with these guests: Brad on Measurement, Part 1: https://youtu.be/iT43zHL2Xp8 Part 2: https://youtu.be/qkDWTKNMI2c Ira on Economics: https://youtu.be/B-fviFKFsw4 Ira on Jordan Peterson, Whittaker Chambers and Ludwig von Moses: https://youtu.be/xaGqYV8Ohw0 Readings mentioned: The Natural Order of Money by Roy Sebag Human Action by Ludwig von Moses Road to Serfdom, Friedrich Hayek Reinventing Collapse by Victor Orloff Financial Nihilism, substack by Luke Burgis

Kale Zelden, English teacher and practicing Catholic, joins Karen to discuss Social Justice, its various meanings and the difficulties with clarity of communciation around these ideas. References discussed: Spe Salvi (In Hope We are Saved, Cardinal Ratzinger) Readings on the 1st Vatican Council - Timothy O'Malley George Orwell's essay on Politics and the English Language: https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/

Karen and Sevilla discuss the concept that God is personal rather than a force, and look at Jonathan Pageau's definition, including the idea of identity always being one level up. The multiplicity and unity nested all the way up. This leads to looking at Plotinus at one end of the spectrum and current moves in science, bioengineering and morphogenesis at the other. Numbers and numerals Bell curve Logic gates Where are they all stored? God as a communion of love, creating out of the overflow of love, love knitting everything together. Scriptures that mention the storehouse: Isaiah 33:6 He will be the sure foundation for your times, a storehouse of salvation, wisdom, and knowledge. The fear of the LORD is Zion’s treasure. Proverbs 2:7-9 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk in integrity, Guarding the paths of justice, And He watches over the way of His godly ones. Then you will discern righteousness, justice, And integrity, and every good path.

Ryan and I continue our conversation about the elements and principles of art, the creative trinity as set forth by Sayers, and the questions that arise concerning faith, science, principles versus rules and what is meant, creatively speaking, by right and wrong. This episode is also on YouTube: https://youtu.be/wHoK6boKLkEQuote from the Mind of the Maker:"That being so, how can we know that the Idea itself has any real existence apart from the Energy? Very strangely, by the fact that the Energy itself is conscious of referring all its acts to an existing and complete whole. In theological terms, the Son does the will of the Father... Quite simply, every choice of an episode, or a word [every stroke of a painting, every choice of a color or a texture] is made to conform to a pattern of the entire work which is revealed by that choice as already existing.This truth, which is difficult to convey in explanation, is quite clear and obvious in experience. It manifests itself plainly enough when the writer [artist] says or thinks: 'That is, or is not, the right phrase' - meaning, that it is a phrase which does or does not correspond to the reality of the Idea."Video mentioned: The Porous Self v. The Buffered Selfhttps://youtu.be/n9AB14m7W_0

In this conversation, we are reacting to an article that Gavin wrote in the Catholic Herald about something Jordan Peterson wrote in a tweet response to the Pope, @pontifex on twitter. Here is the article: https://catholicherald.co.uk/jordan-petersons-twitter-spat-with-pope-francis/ A quote from the article: "What had the Pope written to provoke the world’s most popular psychologist to lay down a Twitter challenge? '#socialjustice demands that we fight against the causes of poverty: inequality and the lack of labour, land, and lodging; against those who deny social and labour rights; and against the culture that leads to taking away the dignity of others.' To which Professor Peterson (never short on self-confidence) replied: “There is nothing Christian about #socialjustice. Redemptive salvation is a matter of the individual soul.”Gavin Ashenden, former Chaplain to the Queen of England, a university lecturer in psychology, had his own radio show on the BBC and now blogs at Ashenden.org. He converted from the Anglican Church to becoming a Catholic apologist for the faith. The story of his conversion: https://youtu.be/J-3CxAjbVBM An earlier conversation on ecumenism: https://youtu.be/F3y7gD_2NTI

Video links follow notes: This episode is on YouTube: https://youtu.be/ZqTA2QJIhTAStephen Hurn's background is in software development, and his passion is science fiction as literature and the consideration of truth. There was so much hope in programming during the '90's that technology would free us from menial facts, but... The new atheists fought against the straw man of the god of the gaps but failed at explaining the mechanisms behind the world. Godel - for every rational system (the universe is an example of a rational system), there is an infinitely larger set of true facts that you can ever prove. Art, Music and Literature offer a way forward. Literature of the 20th century: 1984, Brave New World, Dune We need a religious instinct that works against letting AI think for us. Herbert (Dune) understood the power of religion and taboo. Will we also have a Luddite rebellion against technology? Look at Dune to see where an overreaction can lead. The mystical is an important part of the human experience and must be aligned properly, towards Christ. Gnosticism, pride and the sin in the Garden. Right things can be done in the wrong order. You can do anything in life, but you can't do everything in life. Videos mentioned: McGilchrist, Watson and Levin: https://youtu.be/ynHfrfpTH18 Jordan Peterson, Jeff Sandefer on Education: https://youtu.be/FEUjcRWfu3c

Discussing Mark's tweet:The difference between 'being is good' and 'emergence is good' cannot be understated. One is actually good, the other is actually just #Gnosticism.Mark talks fast:-) You might want to put it on .75, but thenI talk slow, so maybe not:-)This conversation is also available on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Ohd7jDO-PyMWe look mostly at emergence, how faith in emergence tends to overlap with gnosticism, we look at some of the questions in evolutionary theory.The example of "emergence" we looked at in this video:How Particle Life Arises from Simplicity: https://youtu.be/p4YirERTVF0Mark's YouTube channel, Navigating Patterns: https://www.youtube.com/@NavigatingPatterns

Ryan and Karen dig into the ideas in Dorothy Sayers' eye opening work on creativity and through that lens to get a look into the principles that lie at the foundation of the universe.

Discussion with Stephen Hurn, Software Engineer for 18 years. Now working on Game Design and Writing, stay at home Dad. This episode is also on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Di_vUSQw-J0The design process for video games. Levels you operate in. Mechanics (the interaction with the user) up through Dynamics to aesthetic. Aesthetic (idea) informs the process and gets communicated through mechanics. That's the meaning layer. Quaternion Mathematics, 3-D software, triangles and measures Code is like a plan for the house. The computer builds the house based on the plan. Computer hardware is the atom level (Intel and AMD have different hardware, but a level up they can talk to each other) Each level up is to solve different kinds of problems. Hardware is converted to electrical signals, displaying the image on the screen. The level of the user interacting is the most important level. That's where the meaning is. Materialists think you can go from the bottom up, but the top level is the most important. User centric view in software. Every artist wants to communicate. The things you do are an attempt to communicate what you are seeing to the rest of the world. Accuracy. The God object - an anti-pattern. Software engineers follow patterns that become apparent in the world much as mathematicians see mathematics already there in the universe that can be used by us. There are good and bad ways to write code. Actual patterns emerge from the languages themselves and the way they interact with the hardware. There are better ways (preferred ways) to map the higher level to the lower level. There are divine patterns, and then there are evil patterns. The focus on accuracy or simplicity gives you a code that is as simple as it needs to be but no simpler. On the other side is the one great piece of code that fails because it is so convoluted and twisted that you can fix one bug and three more appear. Equivalent to the Tower of Babel. Too big not to fail. Don't touch it. It's likely to break. If you break it, it's hard to fix. Code is written for programmers to understand. The computer, on the other hand, will run (execute) anything it's been programmed with. Excellent coding book: Design Patterns: The Big Four

Michael and Karen discuss a lecture James Lindsay gave on the dangers of the philosophies that have captured the present moment. We try to thread the needle through the truly beneficial part of James' lecture and the parts where he might be speaking outside his expertise.

Matt, philosopher/author/person discusses Reality with Karen.. Three perspectives on the meaning of a paper clip: The avant garde The creative The good/useful The multi-aspectuality of cognitive science. The thread that ties reality together Synoptic Gospels - St. Maximus the Confessor, St. Gregory of Nysa We are portions of God. The habit of Scripture is to say. What is a skill? We are mimicking the habit of our chosen profession The sublime pedantic Can one ever really "come back" from a psychedelic trip? Hegel - Negation and affirmation. You're always right and you're always wrong. Until you have the "now" straight, you can't think about a practice. Distinctiveness v. the common The human being is a microcosm of the macrocosm. Counterfeits Heretic Participation is not optional We have the evidence of the habit. We have to eat and sleep - not beyond that. Ascetic practices. Even the discipline of going to work every day is an ascetic practice. Orthodoxy is Paradoxy. Jesus ascended the cross as a king stepping up to His throne. If it's not real, it's not real. If it is real, whatever it relates to becomes real. Children like order. We can approach these wonderful things without falling into sentimentality. To a perennial problem, there is a perennial innocent. The human being - the land - the promise. The land being defiled - redeeming the land. We're not disposable. We're not going anywhere. The land lies fallow. Order consists of beginning, middle, end. Don't attach to a practice a guaranteed end. When we don't give up, we're reflecting God. Beware of worshipping at the wrong altar.

Michael Clarage, PhD Physics, (Electric Universe, Safire Project)Michael Martin, PhD Literature (poet, biodynamic farmer, author of Submerged Realityjoin Karen to discuss the need for science to acknowledge qualitative as well as quantitative observations.

Ryan is a software developer who often has the conversation with his colleagues about the big questions underlying software development. Where does the system live? The real system corresponding to the meaning, and the hardware corresponding to the matter. This episode can also be found as video at YouTube:https://youtu.be/5rDsJOs1zWkSoftware designers will often discuss a project they are working on by saying, "It seems like it wants to do X" as though the program itself has some sort of agency. What is really happening in these attempts at communicating abstract levels without the input of narrative?

Sevilla King joins Karen for what will be a monthly get together discussing opponent processing, quality and the nature of ultimate reality. Today's conversation focuses on these Clips from Jordan Peterson/John Vervaeke video. This podcast also available on YouTube @ https://youtu.be/S5JpOaDazooA Conversation So Intense It Might Transcend Time and Spacehttps://youtu.be/IZ-tHaHfB8ATimestamp from JBP video: 59:50 How decision weighting corresponds to choice in art and the cosmosTimestamp from JBP video: 1:02:30 How symphonic music describes the layout of the universe and its relationship to ultimate realityRelevance RealizationDecision Weightingmulti-dimensional opponent processingThe convergence of conjugate dualitiesThe coincidence of opposites and proportion in art

Links after notes on our talk: tightening up a definition of entropy and exploring computational theory and emergence and their underlying implications. When anomalies show up, a new physics is needed. Entropy is more qualitative than quantitative. No creativity without entropy. It takes excess energy to get things over the hump and energy to create order and to maintain order. You can only play the deconstruction game once. Irreversibility is a fundamental aspect of the universe. The universe is fundamentally irreversible. The 2nd law is not driving time but is a consequence of that. The laws of physics appear to be reversible, but is that just a function of the continuous and differentiable functions that physics is using to do the calculations? Physics is always creating mathematical models that describe what we see in the universe around us, not what it is actually doing. Computation: the simplest system is a finite state machine. The memory of the past is gone. Shows irreversibility in computation. Landauer's principle, Landauer's eraser. When you go through a logic gate, you lose information and entropy has gone up. Transistors need to be in a very specific order to be useful. Emergence crosses a barrier when something complicated becomes simple again. One of the better popular science video channels that tries to tackle the deeper questions in physics. “PBS Space-Time,” https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7_gcs09iThXybpVgjHZ_7g “Turing machines explained visually, (8:45-duration)” https://youtu.be/-ZS_zFg4w5k “LEGO Turing Machine, (2:22-duration)” https://youtu.be/FTSAiF9AHN4 “Computers Without Memory – Computerphile, (8:51-duration)” https://youtu.be/vhiiia1_hC4 “Understanding Consciousness | Rupert Sheldrake, George Ellis, Amie Thomasson, (43:40-duration)” https://youtu.be/c-QOlTD0YHo “Closer to Truth, the PBS/public television series on cosmos, consciousness and meaning…,” https://www.closertotruth.com/search/site/emergence And for those who are more book oriented, and have had no previous exposure to the subject of Emergence, this collection of essays would be an excellent place to start. “The Re-Emergence of Emergence: The Emergentist Hypothesis from Science to Religion,” https://www.amazon.com/Re-Emergence-Emergence-Emergentist-Hypothesis-Religion/dp/019954431X Phillip Clayton, here’s the real bombshell that the physics of Emergence throws into theology, link to https://www.closertotruth.com/series/why-emergence-significant and listen to his segment posted there. “What Exists is Not Only Physical | George Ellis,” https://youtu.be/Zx3F73po4YE?t=5 Whole 6 Part series Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoARw9zo4EUZhxqfaqYU5yjy0-Tr8RlB4

For full visuals of the movie, see this on Youtube: https://youtu.be/6r8EZwQ7TVgMoviemaker and musician, Neil DeGraide of Dirt Poor Robins, discusses Concept Art, Music and Narrative and the differences between desire and identity. Politicized propaganda art. The Cosmic Image The dual problems: Bottom up - appetites rule (ex: gluttony) Top down - mind forces perception (ex: anorexia) This could all be a symphony It is showing us something. In the Incarnation, the unseen is mediated at a level we can see. Pattern is coherent. Each day is a fractal of the whole of life. Time is not a construct. It is a warm, personal human category. All the secrets of God are being mediated through mankind. God made the world intelligible. Sin is a disease and God is not a bean counter. Reflecting on Mcgilchrist: RH = tradition, LH = renewal Art can break people's hearts and put them back together in a more beautiful way. The need for teleology The need to fill the culture with Beauty

Glen gives a physicist's view of what is necessary to create a life form. In this episode, we touch on entropy and theory of computation, Link to playlist of all 6 episodes follows notes.Intro to Theory of Computation link: https://youtu.be/58N2N7zJGrQ?t=466 Misunderstood Nature of Entropy link: https://youtu.be/kfffy12uQ7g?t=140 Digital Smell video link on key in lock mechanism in neurons: https://youtu.be/NsqsEni2uE4?t=3284 Getting Entropy right is important Intelligence as a modifier: intelligently behaved systems, systems that demonstrate intelligence, acting intelligently. Simplest computational structure - a state machine The universe of keys is the universe of consciousness of the lock. What information is useful to you. The key has a profile. The lock mechanism has a model of what it's looking for. The computation is comparing the model with the key. Dance is an example of a learning that has been incorporated into your fabric where you no longer have to think about it. The correspondence between the mechanical side and a language. Using a language like Verilog, an abstract idea can be turned into traces on a silicon disc and instantiated in the real world. The theory of computation - abstract half and physical half. Set theory. Computational systems and a hierarchy of languages. The system recognizes a language. How do we get to an artificial non-biological life form? 1. Cast it into the language of computation and it will tell you what the structure will look like? 2. Self-sustaining (harvests energy, feeds itself) 3. Be able to reproduce. 4. Find a chemical that acts as a logic switch. Using proteins as a logic gate? Life happens because proteins can fold in a certain way. RNA polymerase transcribes the DNA. The protein molecule is built intelligently. Next episode we will discuss Emergence. Also the possible combinations of deterministic and predictable, unpredictable, indeterministic. DNA is encoded information. If something is using the information, the system defines what is useful. Whole 6 part series Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoARw9zo4EUZhxqfaqYU5yjy0-Tr8RlB4

Glen, the physicist, and Karen, relentlessly curious, continue to tackle the Nature of Life. Apologies in advance for the sound problems with the imported video. Mercifully, it's less than half a minute, so persevere and you will be rewarded. Scroll down for video links plus playlist to entire series of 6 episodes. Going forward, we will do a short intro that tackles another view of entropy, and then will move on to the fundamental nature of computation. In this video, we discuss thermodynamics, entropy (the process of converting one form of energy to another - the traffic laws for that process). Next time, we will discuss the aspect of counting states (from Boltzmann) The mathematics of the free energy principle is impenetrable, but nevertheless useful as a paradigm. In systems doing work internally, free energy tends to a minimum, entropy tends to a maximum. In physics, finding equivalent equations of state allows you to compute a solution. Looking for a.non-biological definition of life. Markov blankets, markov boundaries - a description of connectedness as opposed to dispersion. Boundaries can be functional, not just physical. Openness of boundaries - permeability. Plus, there needs to be an immune system that keeps from breaking up the group. Persistence over time is another hallmark of life. The boundary persists over time. Also a hallmark of strong emergence. Sensory states: asking questions. Making a measure of its environment. Active states: making a choice in responding to the information. What's in between are the inferences, the if/else/then, the decision matrix. Pop the hood and see what's underneath. Computation. Your senses are always looking for anomalies - for what has changed. The free energy principle as applied to AI - cost function, reward function, potential energy function. Macro states are defined by thermodynamic variables. The fundamental thing is the second law of thermodynamics. The concept of entropy was determined later as a mathematical way of describing the process of change in things. (In other words, entropy is not disorder, only defined as a change in things). HOMEWORK: Contemplate a key in a lock as an example of an intelligent system. Consider the lock mechanism is asking a question of the key. What shape are you? If the shape is correct, the lock opens. Intelligence is required, but the intelligence is built into the system itself. Inserting the key in the lock represents the sensory states. Unlatching or latching represents the active states. In between is the if/else/then built into the system by some intelligence. Next time, we will dive more deeply into entropy, then move on to computation, analyzing Paul Davies' idea of life as information. Glen would say that computation is more fundamental than information. We tried to watch 7:50 to 8:15 - Entropy is not Disorder https://youtu.be/vX_WLrcgikc Free Energy Principle with Karl Friston: https://youtu.be/NIu_dJGyIQI Whole 6 part series Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoARw9zo4EUZhxqfaqYU5yjy0-Tr8RlB4

The nature of the origin of life from the standpoint of a specific shared set of definitions of terms, We recap Episode 2 definitions of complexity, chaos, order, and entropy, + a deep dive into the history of entropy and its importance. Thermodynamic systems,Kolmogorov complexity measure Crossing the boundary to the outside, complexity is greatly reduced in terms of how you interact with it. Once boundary is crossed complexity transforms. Chaos can be looked at in various ways - from an archetypal context to an emotional state to the strict definition it has within physics. In disorder, there is a reference point you can go back to, but in chaos, there is no reference point. The matrix of predictability and determinism. Deterministic but not predictable describes chaotic systems Unpredictable and non-deterministic - a true random number generator Predictable but non-deterministic - a computer running a program (there's some intelligence out there that we are responding to) Information - Julian Barbour article, Bit from It. In the Shannon sense - how many bits In the sense of telling you something useful (i.e. tall or short, which can encompass a lot of different states. Yes/No questions don't necessarily map to number of states. In the sense of black holes, holographic principle. In the sense of semantic information Chaos - strange attractors are acting in phase space. Order coming. out of chaotic systems (unpredictable, but bounded) Shapes in multiple dimensions. Brain doesn't see the world the way Mother Nature sees it. Entropy definitions are incomplete. Ex: a measure of disorder, a measure of number of states - Boltzmann, Joule, Carnot, ClausiusEntropy is a bookkeeping device to make sure that you don't violate Carnot's principle. How much free energy depends on the difference between hot and cold. Entropy is the mileage indicator for the disorganization, not the disorganization itself. Carnot - The max efficiency is T hot minus T cold divided by T h Kelvin - perfect engine Clausius - perfect refrigerator Entropy is. qualitative metaphysical statement. Can't go backwards. Does the arrow of time only move forwards because of entropy? Or does the second law occur (does entropy always increase) because the arrow of time already has a direction? People assume science is a step by step process - but you stare at it for a long time, and then one day, the answer comes. Qualitative boundary between the inside and the outside. Inside: thermodynamic entropy ( states/probabilities/energies) tends to maximum disorder, only works at thermal equilibrium Probability of going. back is vanishingly small. Outside: Out of equilibrium will tend towards a new equilibrium and tend towards maximum forgetfulness. You can't go back because you have no idea where came from. (self-organized criticality & complexity economics. Any living system will degrade over time. When complexity on the inside is hidden, you're dealing with a simple object (emergence. Weak emergence -boundary is artificial - cylinders, pistons, etc. Strong emergence - system is making its own boundary (self-organizing, maintaining its own boundary. Playlist for the whole 6 part series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoARw9zo4EUZhxqfaqYU5yjy0-Tr8RlB4

Glen explains his perspective on the physics terminology that is vital to exploring what life is and what it isn't. Glen's view from physics interacts with Karen's view from art at such intersections as boundaries, constraints, limitations and anomaly. Playlist for all 6 episodes follows notes.Next episode, Glen will talk about Science with a capital S. If you want to prepare for the discussion, watch these two videos: Cargo Cult Science with Richard Feynman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvfAtIJbatg&feature=youtu.be The Morality of Fundamental Physics https://www.cornell.edu/video/nima-arkani-hamed-morality-fundamental-physics Other videos with helpful information: Reversing entropy https://youtu.be/KR23aMjIHIY Maxwell's Demon https://youtu.be/favrMbfi1Pw John Wheeler paper he referenced: https://philpapers.org/archive/WHEIPQ.pdf Playlist for the whole 6 part series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoARw9zo4EUZhxqfaqYU5yjy0-Tr8RlB4

John Vervaeke, Wolfgang Smith and Richard Smith begin with a discussion of relativism and what we can do about its negative aspects. Then begins a wide ranging discussion of the tripartite macrocosm and the tripartite microcosm and the overlap between John's work and Wolfgang's work. Many book recommendations included in the timestamps. Fuller bios of Dr. John Vervaeke, Dr. Wolfgang Smith and Dr. Richard Smith in previous conversation: https://youtu.be/5G9gk49VhKM Timestamps 00:00 Intro 03:35 JV Discussion of Cultural Relativism; the limits of cultural frameworks 05:30 JV Plato is well aware of he many aspects of any object, even the visual aspect A through line is that which binds the aspects together. The Platonic framework All organisms are varied - a universal process has produced the variation 08:30 WS Relativism is intimately connected with the Cartesian bifurcationism (my res cogitates is different than yours). In today’s world, we are trained to be disrespectful 11:20 JV Relativism exacerbated by Des Cartes. Lack of respect. Elevation of subjectivity to be half of ontology has been problematic Clark’s Explorations of Metaphysics. Kant never gave an argument for the possibility of understanding other human beings. Wittgenstein: There is ‘no private language’. If there were a private language, you couldn’t be corrected. 15:45 WS Respect is a sine qua non for all else. Today, we create skeptics, critics, always negative to the consensus. To find Truth, one needs to start with sane human attitudes. 21:15 JV Nietszche, Freud, Marx have given us the hermeneutics of suspicion. Palo, Merleau Ponti, J. J. Gibson are giving us a hermeneutics of disclosure. Beauty as disclosing reality. What is needed is this kind of dialogic format focused on the hermeneutics of beauty. An ability to follow the through line.27:00 Many truths are only disclosed to us when we are willing to go through a transformative process. “Not just erudite, but wise.” Wolfgang Smith 30:15 WS You need to have a certain access to the truth before you get more truth. Contemporary teaches to doubt and question everything, so young people are deprived of truth. 33:00 JV That which is most real has intelligible coherence. And the opposite of that, held in tension to the first, is that the real is simultaneously what surprises, shocks, startles us. We need to live a stance as finite transcendents. Reality discloses itself in our finitude. Myths of heroism so we don’t despair of our finitude v. Myths of hubris so that we are constantly aware of our mortality. 38:11 WS The Platonic program - Platonists regarded the intermediary realm to be inherently mathematical (geometry) Sidereal/ planetary / terrestrial Seeing with the eye of the intellect 51:00 JV Difference between Platonism and Neo-Platonism (a continuity between Aristotle and Plato Tripartite in John’s understanding: Nous: The intelligible is that which is accessible only through the nous. Sensible: Corresponds to the corporeal Imaginal: Rituals link the intellect (the nous) and the sensible. 57:15 JV Realizing the through line - theory All the appearances have a throughline that points to something beyond. 1:00:30 JV This all has to translate into me becoming wiser 1:00:59 Geometry, the imaginal, the intermediary, the Pythagoreans, Proclus, theurgia, liturgy. Yogic transition of the imaginal and geometric traditions. Intermediary includes both the intellect and the imaginal Sacred geometry Truth and Reality Reverence and Virtue Thomas Taylor’s Commentary on the Timaeus Eric Perl’s Theophany: the Neoplatonic Philosophy of Dionysius Thomas Cheetham’s All the World is an Icon

Karen and Glen in Episode 1 of the series which will explore the question, What is Life? Future episodes will cover Thomas Kuhn and paradigms, Complexity v. Simplicity, Landauer's Principle, and a general overview of the meaning of and interactions between Entropy, Energy and Information. Playlist for all episodes follows notes.Nima Arkani Hamed video: https://youtu.be/5aAMJNVmdoY Hamed is an alpha dog in theoretical particle physics. It took courage for him to address the nature of morality and truth in relation to physics. He came to the conclusion that there is an objective Reality which is Truth with a capital T, and it is both knowable and accessible. In order to do physics, you have to believe that there is an objective reality. Hamed is on the periphery of the question of how we approach the perfect. You have to accept its pronouncement on you. You may work your whole life on a theory only to have someone else demolish it, and you will have discovered that your theory did not accord with Reality. Paul Davies video: https://youtu.be/GCD1ZT4IgAY (27:00 or 28:00) Brian Miller video: https://youtu.be/YAXiHRPZz0s How does life begin? Paul Davies' assumption is that physics has nothing to say about the matter, because physics uses the language of matter and energy and forces, while biology uses the language of information, coding, instructions. To start working on a design problem, you need a set of design specifications. In this case, we need a non-biological definition of life. To do so we must explore the interface of Entropy, Information and Thermodynamics. All of the arguments against the theory that biology was the basis for first life are statistical. Given the improbabilities, there's just not enough time. Maxwell's demon might be a fruitful approach. Has anyone worked out a way to create a Maxwell's demon using a chemical process? Every compression algorithm needs an error checking mechanism and a key to read it. The error checking mechanism is effective only if you keep all the parts together. The Whole is greater than the Sum of the parts. In the same way, God's Word has a built in error checking device which will always keep you from error if you are familiar with the whole Word and don't dispose of some part of it or take some part of it out of context. Jordan Peterson doesn't take Scripture literally. He takes it seriously. Glen takes it very seriously. Everything has a boundary, an inside and an outside. Entropy is only observable from the outside. Physicists talk about the black box view which is the external view, how the user interacts with the system. The white box view is the internal view, the internal workings of the system contained on the inside and not connected to the outside. PLAYLIST for the whole 6 part series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoARw9zo4EUZhxqfaqYU5yjy0-Tr8RlB4

Brad and Karen dive deeper into the implications of "measuring up" and the balance between mercy and judgment.For the full YouTube, see here: https://youtu.be/qkDWTKNMI2cWe discuss the aspect of comparison, relationships between binaries, Iain McGilchrist's work on the two brain hemispheres, the role of the observer, etc. Link to Part 1 follows the timestamps.Timestamps00:00:00 Intro00:01:15 Navigating between two binaries, example: justice and mercy00:02:50 Migraines that shut down the left hemisphere, comprehending and apprehending00:08:30 Training horses, the blessing of anomaly, learning to listen with the right hemisphere00:10:00 Left hemisphere gives us speech, so a truth, once spoken, becomes a lie. 00:11:20 Finding practical meaning in this little corner00:12:37 Comparing wavelengths, frequencies is what we do, a kind of measurement, at multiple levels and over time.00:14:30 The observer changing what is observed. The feedback loop.00:16:30 Hiking in the Maui Rainforest is contact with reality.00:20:30 Thoughts on the measurement problem and its practical implications 00:23:00 We are also being observed, always. We shape the arena, the arena shapes us.00:31:00 The incarnation of Christ in us, the triad of Love (intention, communication and action)00:40:30 Having a question and balancing that with living real life00:50:28 Was Eve trying to become the Observer? Things have to measure up to my expectations. Unravels the web of Love.00:59:20 Action as the missing piece01:06:30 The perils of providing good content01:14:15 We are comparing frequencies or wavelengths related to context in art 01:23:00 Agape and action01:24:20 LovingMeasurement Problem, Part 1 The Ideal is a Judge: Gauge Blocks and the Requirement to Measure up. https://youtu.be/iT43zHL2Xp8

Jonathan Pageau joins for a conversation with Dr. Wolfgang Smith and Dr. Richard Smith about icons, symbolism and our connection to the Divine. Links to books and articles mentioned will follow the timestamps.Timestamps00:00 Opening chitchat01:20 Intro05:30 Wolfgang Smith’s Tripartite Cosmos icon12:00 Jonathan’s question about the icon20:15 Examples of 3 dimensional versions28:50 Jonathan’s icons42:40 Wolfgang responds to question about the aeviternal realm45:20 Jean Borella quote as an opening to the question of the symbolism of the Cross53:20 The connection to the Divine is what fill it with Reality, bringing up into Glory1:05:30 Without an identity, you can’t measure anything. Identity is a gift.1:15:30 The cup, the apple, identity and coherence over time an Wolfram’s Theory1:19:30 Obstacle is the gift1:27:50 The introduction of perspective in sacred art1:31:20 Wolfgang is encouraged meeting JonathanWolfgang's books (selected out of a long list)The Vertical AscentThe Quantum EnigmaCosmos and TranscendenceAncient Wisdom and Modern MisconceptionsThe new physics by Stephen Wolfram: https://wolframphysics.org

Perry Marshall, author of Evolution 2.0 and founder of the $10 million price for the origin of a spontaneously arising communication system joins Glen and Karen to discuss the fundamental nature of information, choice and the observer. Links to videos mentioned will follow timestamps. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:45 Origin of Life v. Origin of Species 05:14 Is something missing in the Intelligent Design argument? 07:35 Where does the idea come from in the first place? Information must become physical. 11:00 How many divine interventions are there supposed to be? 16:00 The limitations of the God of the Gaps argument. Information shows up. There has to be a mechanism, a chunk of hardware. This problem is not addressed by Intelligent Design 18:30 Does Code = Information? Many definitions of information. Shannon, for example. 22:00 Definition of code is symbolic information exchanged between a sender and a receiver, Between an encoder and a decoder, and it’s a digital communication system 27:25 Science v. Religion is a proxy battle for something deeper, perhaps what it means to be human. 33:30 Does Maxwell’s demon actually exist? 41:00 John Torday, A systems approach to physiologic evolution https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jcp.25820 45:00 Information capacity is a capacity for choice. Freedom to select a one or a zero. 53:00 Maxwell’s demon lives on symbolic info, not bits and bytes. It’s what the 1’s and 0's represent symbolically. What is the sender looking at and the receiver sending onto? A bigger more holistic landscape than science can look at. 1:00:22 Free choice in quantum mechanics. The observer has free choice in what experiment to do. 1:05:45 Time acts on the rocks. The rocks do not act on time. We act on time 1:11:14 If you want to push choice down to the level of Quantum physics, you have to acknowledge that there are multiple pathways into the future which are all consistent with the past history of the universe, so you can’t have perfect determinism. Choice breaks that. 1:15:25 Following the question of the observer is a fruitful path. Glen’s suggestion: perhaps replace consciousness with agency. Consciousness is how WE experience agency, so it takes US out of the theoretical pathway. Reluctance to recast definitions into formal, mathematical statements hinders progress in the search for Origin of Life. 1:17:00 Stuart Kaufman and Set Theory 1:24:00 Heuristics leads to an outcome that is good enough. Inductive reasoning is a powerful skill set. The Meaning Code videos related to The Physics of Life: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoARw9zo4EUZhxqfaqYU5yjy0-Tr8RlB4 The Observer: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoARw9zo4EUZTm9ZRgC9OQINsbC1BxsPy Perry Marshall and Stephen Meyer on Unbelievable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RHUEXn2upI&t=1s Perry Marshall, Denis Noble and Lee Cronin on Unbelievable https://youtu.be/Njuso5A2jts The Prize website: https://evo2.org The book: Evolution 2.0: Breaking the Deadlock Between Darwin and Design by Perry Marshall

Karen and Glen get together for an informal review of items that have recently caught their attention relative to Stephen Wolfram's Theory of Fundamental Physics. If anyone wants to do a comment with timestamps, I will be forever grateful. At the end, Glen mentions John Walton and his reading of the first few chapters of Genesis. We talked about how great it would be to see a conversation between Jordan Peterson and John Walton, and after I started uploading this video, I saw that the Youtube Channel called Deep Talks had uploaded a video today of clips from those two, so here's the link to that: Jordan Peterson v John Walton on Deep Talks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiSGdDc3bQY&t=2s The art video from Chris Petkau that we mentioned: https://youtu.be/pYgUwolDuPs And Glen once again mentioned Nima Arkani Hamed's Morality of Fundamental Physics video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiSGdDc3bQY&t=2s Here's Wolfram on Lex Fridman # 124. Interesting things happen starting at 1:33:30 and again at 3:16:00 going all the way to 3:40:00 or thereabouts..

In Part 3 of this discussion regarding the role of the observer, Glen weaves together ideas of robust computing (demon horde sort) and distributed intelligence. He makes the claim that it could be mathematically verified whether or not computation is fundamental, and that if it turns out to be so, then language is also fundamental, since computation and language are inextricably intertwined. We also learn that handedness (chirality) is hierarchical. links follow timestamps Timestamps 0:00 Intro 0:15 Recapping the end of Part 2 2:00 Central Planning v. Distributed Intelligence 3:00 Responding to viewer’s comments 4:45 PBS Spacetime on the participatory universe 8:32 John Wheeler’s biggest question: Whose bit? 12:20 Implications of observers and the quantum mechanical universe 16:20 A vision of Wholeness 18:30 A challenge for mathematicians 20:35 If there is a point where entanglement does not affect the next layer up, that would solve the Wigner’s Friends paradox and would also illustrate that computation is fundamental. 24:00 Robodog as a way to explore learning systems and language in robotics 28:00 An exploration of group intelligence and the conversation as adaptable 31:30 Handedness is essential and implies Hierarchy 33:30 The language called Forth 38:20 Context Free Grammar, indexed grammars, natural language processing 41:35 The layers of Grammar 47:30 Field workers will probably never be replaced by robots, not a menial task, very complex 51:35 If computation is fundamental, we need a covenant between Truth and Language 53:40 Trust Networks and Cesar Hidalgo 57:50 Decisions at the level of the input output are more effective than centrally planned ones. 1:02:00 Questions about Darwin 1:07:20 It depends on what question you want answered 1:07:45 Questions about Space and Time, the reality of Possibilities and Options 1:11:15 Computational irreducibility is more intuitive if you talk about languages Finite State Machines on Reason to Believe https://youtu.be/6FOJWxdTvms “The "Meta" Hard Problem of Consciousness and Quantum Babbling with Levin, Friston, and Fields,” https://youtu.be/J6eJ44Jq_pw "Cracking The Nutshell," https://www.youtube.com/c/CrackingTheNutshell "Do Electrons Have Free Will? The Conway-Kochen Free Will Theorem - Closing the Free Will Loophole,' https://youtu.be/7ZqUEAACfyk PBS Space-Time, “Does the Universe Create Itself?” https://youtu.be/I8p1yqnuk8Y?t=600 "Robust-first computing: Demon Horde Sort (short version)," https://youtu.be/lbgzXndaNKk "Forth the Hackers Language," https://hackaday.com/2017/01/27/forth-the-hackers-language/

If you want to watch this episode on YouTube:https://youtu.be/ZUOiF0tljiwSevilla King of A Quality Existence joins the Meaning Code to discuss recent appearances by Jonathan and Matthieu Pageau. We look at Mercy and Judgment, gathering in and cutting away. Judgment as a type of discernment, measurement, paring down, producing fittedness. Mercy as a gathering together, care, attention, choosing. Both together are Agape and Sacrifice, opportunity cost, bringing reality into existence. Matthieu Pageau with Tammy Peterson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Om4NKrOCF4 Jonathan Pageau on Love and Attention at the Consciousness and Conscience Conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGQVs4ewHFw&t=647s

For Youtube version: https://youtu.be/G8cAwts0ZZgMargaret Allen tells her story of being raised in an aggressively atheist household and yet learning of the better way, and opens her heart about the process of writing her book. Lot of resources available on Margaret's website, https://margaretallen.org Be sure to look at the page of Declarations. A great encouragement! Gracious Living: Creating a Culture of Honor, Love and Compassion https://www.amazon.com/Gracious-Living-Creating-Culture-Compassion/dp/1952025087/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3THKU7MET6BVL&keywords=Margaret+Allen&qid=1661454384&sprefix=margaret+allen%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-2

Brad Bilski, a designer of testing equipment, joins The Meaning Code for a discussion of the measurement problem and the need for a covenant between language and truth.Timestamps00:00 Intro (reading from Paul Feyerabend's 1975 book, Against Method04:00 Can facts exist outside of a narrative? A response to John Vervaeke11:25 Gauge block: "We call it a Master." ANSI19:45 Calibrations differ; error exists29:45 Rooted in Christ31:30 Copenhagen interpretation? Or Many Worlds?40:30 The sliding scale from mercy to justice52:15 The dystopian world that arrives if we destroy our ideals1:00:35 Subjective and objective and the issue of measurement. The limits of our perception1:10:00 The anomaly is a gift1:17:30 The focal point creates the meaning. The part must measure up to the Master.

A meeting of two great minds moving from considerations of choice and agency to free will and wisdom. Books and authors mentioned follow timestamps.Timestamps00:00 Intro03:30 Decision making and competent behavior do not imply high level cognition 05:20 The value of higher levels is context-dependent06:30 Be careful not to all into patterns that lead to collectivism07:07 Composite agents harness their parts toward an action they wouldn't normally be doing on their own. The scaling of cognition.09:30 A. Juarrero's notion of constraint. Causes are events, happenings. Constraints are conditions and orderings of probability. Bottom up causation, top down constraints. Aristotle's impact on Juarrero: participating the tree structure. Hierarchies presume a single ontological relation. We have to get beyond simple models mapping onto each other. Two kinds of constraints: Selective (reduce probabilities) and Enabling (increase probabilities) counterbalance each other.14:03 Emergence without emanation is epiphenomenalism: an ontological oxymoron, a monster. We are crypto privileging the level at which we do science.16:22 We need to acknowledge the importance of the higher levels, but there is not a simple mapping.18:00 A symphony of choices over time. Constraints as a way to generate creativity. Selection is a way to ignore stuff in order to prevent combinatorial explosion. 21:00 Acknowledging continuity - the problem with extending agency all th way down. Deep identities hypothesis23:45 Self-constraints are related to behavior shaping24:30 Choice, agency, decision making as a continuum. What is a decision? It is a decision to the extent that you need to consider a radius of events in space and time to figure out what just happened.31:45 Not just explained by local forces. Distiinction between causation and causal relevance. What caused the sinking of the Titanic?33:00 If we allow choice to map onto the causal event.... We need a sensitivity to causal relevance34:52 the idea of will goes alll the way down to primitive agents37:02 I am an agent that does things, using the same coarse graining on myself. The need to tell stories, to build internal models.38:25 The basic physics of being an object. Active inference is also for cells and molecular networks. The critical thing is the difference that makes a difference. 40:05 What does attention look like in the molecular pathway in a cell?41:20 Will, active inferencing, free energy all bound up together.45:13 When you zoom in to any event, there are only 2 choices. Determinism or true quantum randomness. If you zoom in... no big shocker! If you zoom in, all you see is physics. Free action (free will) is stretched over long periods of time.47:30 Free will is exercised over years in small increments50:00 Free will only applies to extended beings. From here, they go into a discussion of wisdom.Books mentioned by John:Shaun Gallagher: Enactivist InterventionBrian Cantwell Smith: On the Origin of ObjectsAlice Juarrero: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26272797/ (paper on constraints)

Drew is a music teacher at the International School in Tunis in Northern Africa. With a Master's in Ethnomusicology, Drew is able to consider music as an art form within and across cultures, considering the harmonious interplay of patterns and the musicality of intelligibility. We hear Drew's life story and then consider various aspects of music as communication, music as an aesthetic form and music as communitas and worship.Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:13 Drew's Story 14:20 Arriving in North Africa, Master's in Ethnomusicology 15:45 What drew him to The Meaning Code? 18:30 Using music as a bridge to meaning 20:25 Correspondence between color theory and music theory 27:00 Sound colored by overtones 33:58 Is birdsong strictly just communication or is it an aesthetic experience for the birds as well as for humans? 42:00 Visual arts and music as two different dimensions 47:00 Music, timelessness, unity and multiplicity 54:30 Atomization of modern society and musical silos 58:45 Deeper into the Weeds conversation of Peterson, Vervaeke and Pageau The musicality of intelligibility. "Music is the most representational of art forms." Jordan Peterson 1:02:31 Or, is music the most abstract? 1:07:45 Unity in music, plus multiplicity, diversity, variety 1:09:00 Scale is essential 1:10:45 Pageau, "Consciousness is a pattern perceiving patterns." 1:21:15 What songs does Drew use when leading worship? 1:23:00 Outro Mentions: Stefan Alexander, The Jazz of Physics Robin Sylvan: The Traces of the Spirit Victor Turner: The Ritual Process Songs: Christ is Enough There is No Other Name Give me Faith 10,000 Reasons Oceans

00:00 Intro 03:19 The difference between physical and corporeal, the solution to the quantum enigma 07:25 The corporeal enters into the measurement problem through the measuring device 08:50 John describes relevance realization, the 4 P’s of knowing, emanation and emergence 13:45 Reality is structured with things emerging (returning to the One) and emanating (coming from the One 15:50 If the corporeal is not real, we love conformity to Reality 17:05 We are both Platonists! 18:15 Studying Plato through the lens of the ancient thinkers 25:00 Why is James Gibson’s work important? How has it affected your work? 27:30 Wolfgang seeks to understand John’s ontology 32:00 Gibson and affordances - undermines nominalism. There are real relations 34:30 Opening the door to a new ontology 37:45 The vertical dimension cannot be excluded from the project of working out intelligibility 39:45 James Gibson’s reputation in the academic community is stellar among cognitive scientists but not among cognitive psychologists 44:00 Gibson’s breakthrough has still not penetrated into the physics world 51:00 Spinoza’s Religion 55:00 The undoing of nominalism and representationalism is epochal and we need to celebrate it. 1:01:30 The 1804 edition of Plato’s works with commentary by Thomas Taylor opens up a new way of understanding the ancient books. The Ptolemaic cosmology. 1:06:00 A quote from Cosmos and Transcendence 1:07:00 John discovering the Western wisdom tradition (convergence with Wolfgang) 1:20:15 Abandoning the view that all faiths look to the same source (Vedanta in the Light of Christian Wisdom) 1:28:50 John suggests we do this again! Background material on Wolfgang Smith and John Vervaeke A previous conversation with Wolfgang Smith Solving the Quantum: a Vertical Ascent: https://youtu.be/8NWHGX53agc Wolfgang Smith (A sampling of his many books) Vedanta in Light of Christian Wisdom Physics: a Science in Quest of an Ontology Vertical Ascent Ancient Wisdom and Modern Misconceptions Cosmos and Transcendence: Breaking through the Barrier of Scientistic Belief The Quantum Enigma: Finding the Hidden Key Theistic Evolution: The Teilhardian Heresy Science and Myth: A Response to Stephen Hawking's The Grand Design and many others And a movie made about his life: The End of Quantum Reality, available on Amazon An earlier discussion with physicist friend Glen on Wolfgang Smith's ideas about vertical causation as well as a bit about Stephen Wolfram. Toy Story as Metaphor for Quantum Measurement Problem: https://youtu.be/dFqGjvocYPw John Vervaeke The full series of Awakening from The Meaning Crisis w John Vervaeke: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ John Vervaeke's 4 P's of Knowing https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuit-ucfcXN8QDPMc6DXbTHq

In Part 3 of this discussion regarding the role of the observer, Glen weaves together ideas of robust computing (demon horde sort) and distributed intelligence. He makes the claim that it could be mathematically verified whether or not computation is fundamental, and that if it turns out to be so, then language is also fundamental, since computation and language are inextricably intertwined. We also learn that handedness (chirality) is hierarchical. links follow timestamps. Timestamps 0:00 Intro 0:15 Recapping the end of Part 2 2:00 Central Planning v. Distributed Intelligence 3:00 Responding to viewer’s comments 4:45 PBS Spacetime on the participatory universe 8:32 John Wheeler’s biggest question: Whose bit? 12:20 Implications of observers and the quantum mechanical universe 16:20 A vision of Wholeness 18:30 A challenge for mathematicians 20:35 If there is a point where entanglement does not affect the next layer up, that would solve the Wigner’s Friends paradox and would also illustrate that computation is fundamental. 24:00 Robodog as a way to explore learning systems and language in robotics 28:00 An exploration of group intelligence and the conversation as adaptable 31:30 Handedness is essential and implies Hierarchy 33:30 The language called Forth 38:20 Context Free Grammar, indexed grammars, natural language processing 41:35 The layers of Grammar 47:30 Field workers will probably never be replaced by robots, not a menial task, very complex 51:35 If computation is fundamental, we need a covenant between Truth and Language 53:40 Trust Networks and Cesar Hidalgo 57:50 Decisions at the level of the input output are more effective than centrally planned ones. 1:02:00 Questions about Darwin 1:07:20 It depends on what question you want answered 1:07:45 Questions about Space and Time, the reality of Possibilities and Options 1:11:15 Computational irreducibility is more intuitive if you talk about languages “The "Meta" Hard Problem of Consciousness and Quantum Babbling with Levin, Friston, and Fields,” https://youtu.be/J6eJ44Jq_pw "Cracking The Nutshell," https://www.youtube.com/c/CrackingTheNutshell "Do Electrons Have Free Will? The Conway-Kochen Free Will Theorem - Closing the Free Will Loophole,' https://youtu.be/7ZqUEAACfyk PBS Space-Time, “Does the Universe Create Itself?” https://youtu.be/I8p1yqnuk8Y?t=600 "Robust-first computing: Demon Horde Sort (short version)," https://youtu.be/lbgzXndaNKk "Forth the Hackers Language," https://hackaday.com/2017/01/27/forth-the-hackers-language/

Is the universe fundamentally computational? What is the observer? What is the role of the observer? A deep dive.Timestamps 0:00.Intro 2:00 Analyzing 2 different delayed choice quantum eraser experiments: Kim, et al and John Wheeler (Gedanken)13:43 We never talk about what the observer is (we need to include the physics of the observer)14:14 Maxwell's demon and the observer (a sequence of choices)25:08 The Free Will Theorem 27:00 Multiple choices that are still consistent with the past history of the universe.41:30 Observation does require a "concept" of consciousness.49:25 Consciousness ends at the smallest composite systems capable of computation, those are the smallest units for which consciousness would apply. A sequence of choices based on a set of rules. Must be causally disconnected from the universe as a whole in order to be an observer.1:00:52 If you take computation as fundamental, you can get an ought from an is, which Sam Harris says is impossible to do.1:08:15 Computation is always a physical system. If you take computation as fundamental, information is downstream or an artifact of that. 1:09:10 If you think in terms of computation, you immediately get languages.1:20:55 A review of computation1:21:34 Exposition of music as a computational system1:31:08 Introducing Dave Ackley of the Demon Horde SortThe challenge. The Role of the Observer, Part 1: https://youtu.be/A5xtyRkp6HE Recommended research: More Glen and others on the Quantum Measurement Problem: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoARw9zo4EUa1nUq32fXuGvtTJFhLhN3d Glen on The Physics of Life: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoARw9zo4EUZhxqfaqYU5yjy0-Tr8RlB4For all the links discussed by Glen, see the YouTube version of this talk:https://youtu.be/xJtw5umXouc

Glen, physicist, mathematician and computer scientist, joins for an exploration of the role of the Observer in Physics. The history of the move from classical to quantum physics. If you want to do some homework before Part 2, links to everything are in the description to the YouTube version of this conversation: https://youtu.be/A5xtyRkp6HE In the world of Alice in Wonderland, the role of the observer is the rabbit hole. If the Observer can't be described quantum mechanically, what is it? The paradoxes of entanglement Before Schrodinger came up with the wave equation, what was he thinking about and looking at that led him to his conclusions? Quantum mechanics - based on principle of least action Gave rise to la Grangian formalism which gave rise to Hamiltonian and then Poisson Brackets. Classical pushed to the limit leads to the quantum. The wave function in a complex plane. Wave equation based on the principle of least action. Entanglement at the classic level needs a base of connection Einstein Podolsky Rosen paradox Schrodinger's cat - entanglement affects the observer Wigner's Friends Paradox The observer can't be a quantum mechanical system Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser Experiment Correlations are products of wave functions Interference is sums of wave functions Pierre Duhem wrote To Save the Phenomena and The Aim and Structure of Physical Theory Teaching should Edify, Explain and Encourage you to go deeper Strong Free Will Theorem (Simon/Kochen) The future affects the past? Free choice should be called causal independence or causal decoupling

For a complete intro of these two guests, see their previous conversation. https://youtu.be/2vYfcotRRjk Timestamps 00:00 Musical Intro Affect is fundamental Unless we can make a conscious machine, we have not solved the hard problem Cognitive systems as predictive of the outside world 02:00 Mark Solms describes his project to create an artificial consciousness 04:15. The quest to find a neural correlate of consciousness (Francis Crick) 05:00 The wrong place to start 06:25 Children born without a cerebral cortex are still responsive and reactive 10:00 The mechanism of homeostasis, the periaqueductal gray, error signals 11:00 The architecture of the artificial consciousness 11:50 Autonomic regulation can be unconscious 12:30 Uncertainty triggers consciousness (ex: blood gases rising to conscious reaction), Uncertainty tells you how well you’re doing 15:00 Minimal conditions - self-organizing system - registers its own Markov blanket state (point of view) 3 needs 17:30 It needs energy, it suffers damage w/in tolerable limits, it needs rest & repair of structural damage - only purpose is to keep going 19:30 It wanders about is environment exploring and experiencing 20:43 An active inference agent, inferring its own state and state of its environment Error signals, updates, improving its model of itself in the world based on its 3 hemeostats Statistical confidence 23:50 Qualitatively distinctive categories 24:30 Calculating its expected free energy - the ability to look ahead 25:00 Equivalent of working memory, able to make decisions about how many steps needed to think ahead. 25:50 Create uncertainty by changing the environment. Its confidence in its policies is tethered to its affect. Environment changes & returns. Seasons. Explore and Exploit 28:20 How do we know when such a system has feelings? 30:20 Non-conscious is how we look at things that are in a different space than we are, but are they really non-conscious? Levels of “selfness” 32:40 Competencies in non-3D, problem spaces, transcriptional spaces, etc. In your virtual world is that level of consciousness as valid as physical organisms exhibit in 3-D space? 36:50 Measuring its own state in a qualitative sense Virtual v. Real agents Substrate v. Mechanism What new problems arise with embodiment? 41:00 Anomaly. Navigating morphospace Stress Changing set point. Rewritten the set point they gauge where to go. Second order monitoring system (metacognition) 43:30 We interact with our own representation of that state and our own internal bodily state The nerve impulses represent the state of a reality 45:30 The thermostat makes no resistance to changing the setpoint, but biological organisms need to resist, to monitor the set point. learning v being trained Has your set point been changed? Has someone else changed it? 47:40 The survival need of resisting change to your set point 50:00 Introduce other agents into the same environment to infer other agents. Isolation is a biologically implausible situation. 51:30. The problem of other minds 55:50 Zebrafish with hedonic condition place preference research See whether what motivates the entity is only a feeling. 57:30 Anxiolytics 58:50 Where does the desire to exist come from? "Affect is the fundamental (elemental) aspect of consciousness." Mark Solms There is an attempt to recast physics "to use the dynamics we use to look @ cognitive systems - a specific kind o predictive interaction with the outside world."

Is the Path Not Taken visible to God?The narrative of the Garden as it relates to potential. Plan A or Plan B?Does everyone want to be healed? Saved?Looking at Jesus’ work in our lives through the story of Judas.George MacDonald, “Our God is a consuming fire, and His fire is His love.”https://www.amazon.ca/Beautiful-Constraint-Transform-Limitations-Advantages/dp/1118899016 Amazon linkhttps://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/9057Unspoken Sermons (George MacDonald)Esther O’Reilly’s two talks with Paulhttps://youtu.be/sOT6cP9tEnQhttps://youtu.be/QR_kwzF-9YsShari Suter’s two talks with Paulhttps://youtu.be/NYDJjVbG3mk first conversation with Paulhttps://youtu.be/tfpXAZZq-wI second conversation with PaulKaren’s two talks with Paulhttps://youtu.be/HlMgGkwWUNYhttps://youtu.be/ZC03aNsPHOQ

Dr. Michael Levin and Dr. John Vervaeke discuss findings on cognition, consciousness and placebo. Where is the line? Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 02:30 “How do you define and differentiate cognition, intelligence, consciousness” 05:40 Mike 08:10 Can there be relevance realization at the cellular level? 14:00 The realization of the gradual development from oocyte to adult mind. Amazing plasticity. William James’ definition of intelligence 19:45 John asks about top-down causation rejecting just a bottom up approach. The whole has a causal power not attributable just to the parts. 21:00 JV Identity going all the way down and emergence going all the way up. How to identify the ontology? 22:00 ML Assume LaPlace’s demon could exist as a thought experiment. Tracking the micro states is an observer only, it cannot act. All the states are the same to you. But we want a worldview that helps you do things. A participatory worldview. 25:45 JV: I’ve been making epistemological arguments around the idea that any proper worldview has to give ontological status to scientists making measurements. 27:00 JV introduces neoplatonism, emanation down and emergence up as a way to integrate science and spirituality in an intellectually rigorous way 28:50 ML: Can't talk about Platonic worldview in the biology circles, only in a forum like this, focused on meaning. 30:00 Logic gates come with a truth table. Where does that come from? 30:55 An index into the world of possibilities. Where does the capacity come from for xenobots to form within 48 hours? 33:00 Evidence for fractal levels of cognition, information exchange… But have you ever looked at the placebo effect, which for a pure reductionist is a very hard thing to explain? 35:30 ML’s study on gene regulatory networks and the placebo effect. 38:30 Albert Mason on psycho dermatology 41:45 KW asks a “woo woo” question. Hilarity ensues. 45:00 JV Rigorous scientific research to verify “experience” 49:30 ML Biochemical and bioelectrical signals and how they could eventuate change across layers 52:00 ML Can we train molecular networks to stimulate healing? Awakening from The Meaning Crisis: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ 4 P's of Knowing https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuit-ucfcXN8QDPMc6DXbTHq Michael Levin: https://youtu.be/GVOxAOflRho Dr. Levin's work on limb regeneration: https://youtu.be/N9Oli5MPLbY The Levin Lab at Tufts U: https://ase.tufts.edu/biology/labs/levin/research/newdirections.htm Erik Hoel: a great Substack column in addition to his science. See section "b)" on https://www.erikphoel.com/science.html Albert Mason: http://www7.bbk.ac.uk/hiddenpersuaders/blog/albert-mason-medicine-magic-hypnotism/ https://npsi.us.com/uploads/documents/MasonInterviewMRobinson2011.pdf The Vertical Ascent by Wolfgang SmithDr. Wolfgang Smith, Renowned Physicist, on Vertical Causation, Irreducible Wholeness and Meaning https://youtu.be/8NWHGX53agc