The Lawfare Podcast: Patreon Edition

From September 7, 2019: This summer has been a tumultuous one inside the U.S. State Department. In August, the department’s Office of the Inspector General handed down a scathing report alleging political manipulation and abusive practices inside the department’s International Organization bureau—only one of a series of similar allegations. At the same time, a number of career State Department officials ranging from assistant secretaries to the rank-and-file have resigned due to alleged complaints and disagreements with Trump administration officials and policies.To dig into these developments and consider what they might mean for the State Department’s present and future, Scott R. Anderson spoke with reporters Colum Lynch and Robbie Gramer of Foreign Policy magazine, and Lawfare’s Margaret Taylor, who is a fellow alumnus of the State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor and former Democratic Counsel for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The United States has long set restrictions on the export of certain sensitive goods and technologies, particularly to strategic rivals. But over the past several years, we have seen first the Trump and now the Biden administrations use the legal authorities behind these export controls in new and innovative ways, for purposes ranging from limiting China’s access to key emerging technologies to stymying Russia’s military effectiveness in Ukraine. The only problem is, once you impose these restrictions, you then have to enforce them—and that’s not always an easy task.To learn more about how the Biden administration is taking on this challenge, Lawfare Contributing Editor Brandon Van Grack and Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Matthew Axelrod, Assistant Secretary of Export Enforcement at the U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security. They discussed how export control enforcement works; the sorts of coordination it requires with industry and foreign countries, friendly and unfriendly; and what new enforcement strategies the United States is pursuing as the use of export controls changes.This is the latest episode of “The Regulators,” a special series Lawfare is co-producing with the law firm Morrison & Foerster, where Brandon is a partner. Each episode, Brandon and Scott sit down with some of the senior U.S. policymakers responsible for crafting and implementing the cutting edge policies that are defining our new era of economic statecraft.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In October 1983, Maurice Bishop, the revolutionary leader and prime minister of Grenada, was executed alongside seven others amid a power struggle in the island nation. Ever since, a mystery has persisted: What happened to their bodies? The whereabouts of Bishop’s remains is unknown, and for the past two years, Washington Post journalists have been trying to find them. Martine Powers hosts the new Post investigative podcast, “The Empty Grave of Comrade Bishop.” She’s been fascinated by Bishop’s story for years, and she takes listeners on a journey through his rise and untimely death. The podcast is part mystery, party history. Bishop was a dynamic, charismatic leader, and an important figure in the history of Black power and politics, his influence felt in Grenada and the United States. The Reagan administration saw Bishop as a socialist threat and worried that the Soviet Union might build a base on Grenada. Days after Bishop was killed, the United States led an invasion of the island. Listeners may also know Martine as the host of “Post Reports,” the news organization's daily podcast. Shane Harris and Martine have spent a lot of time together in the recording studio, but this is the first time he’s asked her the questions. They discussed her new project, how she made her way from print reporting to podcasts, and what she thinks audio journalism gives readers that traditional news reporting often can’t. Among the works mentioned in this episode:“The Empty Grave of Comrade Bishop” episode guide Martine’s bioBishop speaking in New York in 1983President Ronald Reagan speaking about Bishop and Grenada (around 14:20): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfLGDxnRH-Q Excerpts of Reagan’s address following the invasion of GrenadaWashington Post coverage of the invasion: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/10/26/the-invasion-of-grenada/cc0f5e1c-9a3b-4d53-bc42-a5708da9f77f/  https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/10/26/the-invasion-of-grenada/18d2aa63-f54f-4e76-932b-275fae48c3ea/ White House photos during the invasionChatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On November 6, researchers at Duke University’s Sanford School of Public Policy issued a report on “Data Brokers and the Sale of Data on U.S. Military Personnel” that illuminates the national security risks arising from the sale of these data. Lawfare Senior Editor Stephanie Pell sat down with the three of the report’s authors: Justin Sherman, a Senior Fellow at the Sanford School of Public Policy who leads its data brokerage research project; Hayley Barton, a Master of Public Policy and Master of Business Administration student at Duke University and a former research assistant on Duke’s data brokerage research project; and Brady Allen Kruse, a Master of Public Policy student at Duke University and a research assistant on Duke’s data brokerage research project.They talked about the kinds of data that data brokers collect and sell about U.S. military personnel, the national security risks created by these practices, and the gaps in the law that enable this activity. They also discussed policy recommendations for the U.S. federal government to address the risks associated with data brokerage and the sale of data on former and active-duty U.S. military personnel. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The use of deepfakes—a form of artificial intelligence known as deep learning to create manipulated or generated images, video, and audio—is on the rise. In 2022, the U.S. military took a nearly unprecedented step by declaring its interest in deepfake technology for offensive purposes. But the Defense Department’s exploration of this technology poses privacy and ethics risks, especially with respect to human subjects research.To unpack all of this and more, Lawfare Associate Editor Katherine Pompilio sat down with Aimee Nishimura, a Cyber Student Fellow at the Strauss Center for International Security and Law at UT Austin. Aimee recently published a piece on Lawfare, entitled “Human Subjects Protection in the Era of Deepfakes.” They discussed the significant dangers posed by deepfakes, how the Defense Department can support the protection of human subjects in its research on the technology, and more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Three weeks ago, an amazing new book came out about the prosecutions stemming from the Capitol Siege of Jan. 6, 2021. It’s called "Sedition Hunters: How January 6th Broke the Justice System."Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff sat down with the book’s author, Ryan J. Reilly, who is also the Justice Reporter at NBC News. They discussed who the Sedition Hunters are, how Ryan stumbled across them, and why they’ve played such a crucial role in the Jan. 6 criminal investigation.   Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In August, the U.S. Africa Command, aka AFRICOM, reported that it had killed 13 al-Shabaab fighters in southern Somalia. Though the U.S. government said that it did not kill any civilians this time around, several past airstrikes have claimed innocent lives. In one notable example from March 2018, U.S. drone operators killed a 22-year-old mother, Lul Dahir Mohamed, and her 4-year-old daughter, Mariam, as they hitched a ride in a pickup truck with suspected militants.  In a recently published article for The Intercept, Nick Turse offers an unprecedented account of the March 2018 strike, thanks to his reporting in Mogadishu and a secret Pentagon investigation he obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request. As Nick writes, “This is a story about misconnections, flawed intelligence, and fatal blindness. It started with bad cell service and ended with an American missile obliterating civilians the U.S. didn't intend to kill, but didn't care enough to save.”  Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Nick, contributing writer at The Intercept, to discuss his piece, a post mortem of that fatal drone strike, and the wider context of AFRICOM's drone war across the region from the Obama administration through the present day. They also discussed why this special operations strike cell “seemed like they did everything wrong,” according to one American drone pilot who worked in Somalia.Please note that this episode contains content that some people may find disturbing, including graphic depictions of deadly drone strikes. Listener discretion is advised. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on Rational Security, Quinta and Scott bade a temporary farewell to Alan and spent one last afternoon (for a few months, anyway) digging into the week’s big national security news stories, including:“Ceasefire or Misfire?” We are now one month into Israel’s military campaign in the Gaza Strip. As civilian casualties continue to mount and Israel’s ground operations get underway, there are growing calls for a ceasefire—calls that the Biden administration may now be taking up, in more limited and temporary fashion. Where are we in this conflict? Is there any end in sight?“Freedom of Screech.” Former President Trump’s speech—and the right to it—is increasingly becoming an issue in his various criminal and civil trials, both legal and otherwise (as evidenced by a recent bout of angry shouting he pursued on the stand in his New York civil case). How have courts been balancing the equities? Is there something they can do better?“No, no—THAT’s what the Insurrection Act is for.” In an effort spearheaded by co-conspirator number four himself Jeffrey Clark, President Trump and his allies are reportedly planning for a revenge campaign if he returns to the White House, beginning with a complete takeover of the Justice Department. How realistic are these plans? What can be done to stop them?For object lessons, Alan recommended Sandra Newman’s “Julia,” a retelling of the classic “1984” from a new perspective. Quinta gave a similar bump to Brandon Taylor’s new novel, “The Late Americans.” And Scott rolled logs for his latest piece for Lawfare, a retrospective on the legacy of the War Powers Resolution fifty years after its enactment. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's another edition of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” recorded on Nov. 9 before a live audience of Lawfare Material Supporters. To talk through this week of Trump’s trials, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with special guest Adam Klasfeld of The Messenger, Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower, and Lawfare Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Alan Rozenshtein. They talked about the Trump testimony, Ivanka’s testimony, and her brother’s testimony. They talked about gag orders in New York, gag orders in Washington, and what it takes to be subject to a gag order. They talked about Section 3 litigation under the 14th Amendment. And they talked about the Georgia Bureau of Investigation report on all that went down in Coffee County.This is a live conversation that happens online every Thursday at 4:00pm Eastern Time. If you would like to come join and ask a question, be sure to visit Lawfare’s Patreon account and become a Material Supporter. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From March 2, 2019: It's hard to open a newspaper or turn on the television without hearing about the dysfunction and partisan polarization affecting members of Congress. But what about their staffs, and what does that mean for national security?This week, Margaret Taylor sat down with seemingly unlikely partners: Luke Murry, National Security Advisor to Republican House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, and Daniel Silverberg, National Security Advisor to Democratic House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer. They spoke about security issues facing this Congress, what staffers do on a day-to-day basis, and how the two of them actually work together. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From November 8, 2014: Last month, Jack gave a talk at the Hoover Institution on President Obama's war powers legacy. It's a remarkable address: hard-hitting, clear, and sure to discomfort Obama's defenders on war powers issues. In essence, Jack argues that Obama has gone way beyond President Bush in the aggressiveness of his approach vis a vis Congress to initiating overseas conflict.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When she's not hosting The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC, Rachel Maddow has been diving deep into the history of fascism in America. First on her podcast, Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra, and most recently in her new book, Prequel: An American Fight Against Fascism, she has unearthed the stories for popular audiences both of an earlier era of foreign authoritarian influence in American politics and of those who fought against it. In this conversation, Maddow sat down with Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes to discuss Prequel and its relationship to the modern fight against populist authoritarianism. They talked about the many striking similarities between then and now, some key differences, the necessity but ultimate inadequacy of law enforcement as a solution to authoritarian movements, the role of journalism, whether grifting is an inherent feature of right-wing authoritarianism, and why so many heroes of that era's fight against fascism are almost forgotten today.For future reading on this subject, Maddow recommends:Charles R. Gallagher, "Nazis of Copley Square: The Forgotten Story of the Christian Front"Steven J. Ross, "Hitler in Los Angeles: How Jews Foiled Nazi Plots Against Hollywood and America"You can also watch Rachel's full conversation with Ben at https://youtu.be/Y1Yc4Ss8_OI.Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Fionnuala Ní Aoláin completed a productive six-year tenure as the UN Special Rapporteur on counterterrorism and human rights last week. Among other issues, she examined how financing counterterrorism and new technologies used for counterterrorism affect human rights. She also analyzed the protection of human rights in several locations with different political contexts, including visits to Guantanamo Bay and detention facilities in northeast Syria. Lawfare Research Fellow Matt Gluck sat down with Fionnuala to discuss her experience as special rapporteur. They spoke about the downstream harms of counterterrorism financing, her conversations with Guantanamo Bay detainees, why gender should be a meaningful consideration of counterterrorism policy, and much more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You probably already know that Rep. Mike Johnson is the new Speaker of the House. What you may not know is that every single one of the issues on his plate is a national security issue, at least in the short term. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor and Brookings Senior Fellow Molly Reynolds to talk it all through. They talked about Israel aid, Ukraine aid, Taiwan assistance, the border, FISA Section 702, government shutdowns, and more. It's a rollicking conversation through a crazy bunch of issues that are all on the front burner of the new Speaker's stove as he takes over a job for which he appears to be wholly unprepared.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the debate about data privacy and harms, one issue has not received adequate attention by the press or in policy conversations relative to the severity and volume of harm: the link between publicly available information and stalking and gendered violence. To discuss how “people search” data brokers use public information and contribute to stalking and abuse, Lawfare’s Fellow in Technology Policy and Law, Eugenia Lostri, sat down with Justin Sherman who recently wrote a Lawfare article on the topic. Justin is the Founder and CEO of Global Cyber Strategies and a Senior Fellow at Duke University’s Sanford School of Public Policy. They talked about the publicly available information carve-outs, the systemic nature of the problem, and how policymakers should step in.Content Warning: This episode contains discussions of gendered violence and stalking. Listener discretion is advised. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on Rational Security, Alan, Quinta, and Scott were joined by Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri to tackle some of the overlooked national security stories that have been percolating the past few weeks, including:“BrokenAI?” The Biden administration has rolled out a groundbreaking new Executive Order on Artificial Intelligence that seeks to take the first steps towards a real regulatory regime for this revolutionary technology. Is this a responsible step? Or does it threaten to put the U.S. development of AI in a regulatory cage?“Ending the Fracas in Caracas.” The Biden administration is taking a step towards thawing relations with the Maduro regime in Venezuela, easing sanctions at least temporarily in exchange for the release of political prisoners and a promise to hold competitive elections—though Maduro has yet to agree to ensure that most prominent opposition figures will be allowed to participate. Is this a smart way forward or folly?“Let’s Get Mikey to Do It, He’ll Try Anything.” We have a new Speaker of the House in the form of Rep. Mike Johnson. And he has decided to open his speakership with a bold move: separating aid from Israel out from other emergency measures and insisting that it be funded by cuts from the Internal Revenue Service—a move that President Biden has promised to veto and that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has come out publicly against. What does this tell us about the direction Congress is headed in the weeks to come?For object lessons, Alan shared a bit of comedy in the form of Jeff Maurer’s satire of statements on the Gaza conflict, “Windex Ain’t Scared.” Quinta recommended the second season of “Our Flag Means Death” for a delightful romcom about bloodthirsty pirates. Scott celebrated the power of love. And Eugenia recommended the video game Pillars of Eternity for those desperate to play Baldur’s Gate III but whose computers cannot handle it. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's another episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” recorded live on Zoom before an audience of Lawfare Material Supporters. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff, Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower, and Josh Gerstein of Politico to talk about Wednesday’s hearing in the Mar-a-Lago case, Section 3 disqualification litigation in Minnesota and Colorado, the latest from Fulton County, what Judge Cannon is up to with her CIPA rulings, and the schedule for the Mar-a-Lago trial.This is a live conversation that happens online every Thursday at 4:00pm Eastern Time. If you would like to come join and ask a question, be sure to visit Lawfare’s Patreon account and become a Material Supporter. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From June 26, 2018: With the media and political commentators focused on family separation at the U.S.-Mexico border, few are paying attention to how developments along Mexico's southern border affect the United States. On Monday, Benjamin Wittes spoke with Stephanie Leutert, director of the Mexico Security Initiative at The University of Texas at Austin, who has spent the past several weeks in the field studying the flow of migrants from Central America into Mexico. They discussed who's entering Mexico, why they're doing it, why most continue on to the United States, and where the dangers lie along their journeys. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Since Hamas’s attack on Israel on Oct. 7, the Israel-Hamas war has largely been fought in Gaza, a small strip of land along the border of the Mediterranean Sea. But farther inland, there has been an uptick in hostilities between Israelis and Palestinians in the Palestinian territory of the West Bank. Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem says that at least 13 Palestinian herding communities in the West Bank have been forcibly displaced since the beginning of the war due to Israeli settler violence and intimidation, and nearly 100 Palestinians in the territory are reported to have been killed since the war began by both Israeli military strikes as well as settler violence. The fraught relationship between the Israeli government, Israeli settlers, Palestinians, and the Palestinian Authority are not new. But in part because of those existing issues, the West Bank has the potential to expand and complicate the bounds of the Israel-Hamas war—and some may argue that that is already underway. To understand how the West Bank fits into the ongoing hostilities between Israel and Hamas, Lawfare Associate Editor Hyemin Han spoke to Dan Byman from the Center for Strategic & International Studies, who is also Lawfare’s Foreign Policy Editor; Ghaith al-Omari of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy; and Scott R. Anderson, Lawfare Senior Editor and Fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution. They talked about the international law that currently governs the rules of engagement in the West Bank, the political responses of the Israeli government and other Arab states, and how West Bank dynamics will impact the broader outcomes of the Israel-Hamas war.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The British Empire was already buckling under its own internal tensions in the 1920s. One hundred years later, historian and author Matthew Parker uses stories from across the globe to fill his new book One Fine Day, centered on the territorial peak of the empire on September 29, 1923. It reveals much about the limits of empire, the effects of liberation movements on colonized peoples around the world, and the dynamics of strategic transition.David Priess and Matthew chatted about his globally mobile upbringing; the experiences driving him to this topic; the state of the British Empire on and around September 29, 2023; the story of Ocean Island (Banaba); how the First World War affected how colonized people viewed imperial rule; the emergence of social anthropology and its impact on racist views underlying colonialism; the influence of sport in the empire; George Orwell's experience in Burma; the activities of Marcus Garvey; Ian Fleming's time in Jamaica at the house he called Goldeneye, where he wrote all of the James Bond novels; and more.Among the works mentioned in this episode:The book One Fine Day by Matthew ParkerThe book Goldeneye by Matthew ParkerThe book Panama Fever by Matthew ParkerThe book The Sugar Barons by Matthew ParkerThe book The Earth Transformed by Peter FrankopanThe book The Silk Roads by Peter FrankopanThe book A Passage North by Anuk ArudpragasamChatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A few weeks ago, an organization that works in the democracy protection space asked Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes and Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson to give a talk about what would happen if Donald Trump both got convicted and got elected. And for this episode of the Lawfare Podcast, we’ve reprised that conversation, with an accompanying YouTube version including their PowerPoint presentation.Ben and Scott talked about what could happen if a president gets convicted and then gets elected, including how the system might respond if it’s a federal case, if it’s a state case, if the case is pending, and if the case is already wrapped up.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the wake of Donald Trump's role in the attempt to overturn the 2020 election and the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, lawsuits in states around the country are seeking to disqualify him from the 2024 election. Challengers to his eligibility invoke Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which provides in relevant part that "No person shall . . . hold any office . . . under the United States . . . who, having previously taken an oath . . . as an officer of the United States . . . to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."As of now, there are nearly two dozen states in which litigation is ongoing to bar Trump from the ballot, and that number is only expected to grow. Earlier this week, a Colorado district began a week-long bench trial and, this Thursday, the Minnesota Supreme Court will hear oral argument. And if a state does disqualify Trump, the United States Supreme Court will no doubt immediately hear the case.On Monday October 30, the University of Minnesota Law School held a conference with leading law and political science scholars on "Section 3, Insurrection, and the 2024 Election: Does the Fourteenth Amendment Bar Donald Trump from the Presidency?" Today's Lawfare Podcast is a recording of one of the conference panels, which focused on the political implications of the Section 3 cases.The moderator was Larry Jacobs of the Hubert H. Humphrey School of Public Affairs at the University of Minnesota, and the panelists were Julia Azari, a Professor of Political Science at Marquette University; Ilya Somin, a Professor of Law at George Mason University's Antonin Scalia Law School; and Eric Segall, a Professor of Law at the Georgia State College of Law. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It’s been a rough few months for Senator Bob Menendez. The powerful New Jersey Democrat has pleaded not guilty to federal charges related to an alleged bribery scheme under which, according to prosecutors, Menendez carried out favors for the government of Egypt. But while the allegations set out in the indictment sound pretty unsavory, recent decisions by the Supreme Court—in particular, the 2016 case McDonnell v. United States—make prosecuting such corruption cases significantly more difficult. Lawfare recently published an article about the potential impact of McDonnell on the Menendez case by Daniel Richman, the Paul J. Kellner Professor of Law at Columbia Law School. Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic sat down with Dan to discuss McDonnell, the charges against Menendez, and, of course, the photographs of gold bars allegedly given to Menendez that federal prosecutors included in the indictment. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this month’s minipod episode, Lawfare Associate Editor for Communications Anna Hickey sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor and Brookings Institution fellow Quinta Jurecic to discuss how a constitutional crisis is defined and whether this type of crisis has occurred in the United States before. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are a little more than a year out from the 2024 election—an election that, in countless ways, promises to be unlike any other. One way it may be different is the very real prospect of a scenario in which neither major party candidate secures enough electoral votes to win, kicking the decision to the House of Representatives in what is called a “contingent election.” Possible third parties are actively discussing the possibility of a contingent election as part of their political strategy—and this talk has many experts and advocates nervous about what chaos the turn to a contingent election might wreak. To talk through what this scenario might mean, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Beau Tremitiere and Aisha Woodward of Protect Democracy, which recently released a report—and published a related piece in Lawfare—on the topic. They walked through how a contingent election would work, how it might end up subverting the democratic process, and what alternatives might be out there for those less than content with the two-party status quo. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on Rational Security, Alan, Quinta, and Scott came together in the virtual studio to talk over the week’s big national security news, including:“Stuck in the Middle (East) with You.” The Biden administration is finding itself increasingly pilloried from both sides for its handling of the Oct. 7 massacre perpetrated by Hamas and Israel’s ensuing military response in the Gaza Strip, as the right urges stronger support for Israel while some on the left are becoming more vocal in calling for a ceasefire. How far can the Biden administration walk this tightrope?“Et Tu, Jenna?” Four co-defendants of former President Trump, including Rudy Giuliani’s right hand woman Jenna Ellis, have now pled out and promised to cooperate in the Fulton County prosecution addressing alleged election interference—and media reports indicate that his former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has accepted an immunity deal to testify before a federal grand jury. What does this all mean for Trump’s legal prospects moving forward?“Exit, Stage Far Right.” Former President Trump is reportedly once again planning to exit or diminish NATO if he returns to the White House—a position his contender for Republican nominee Vivek Ramaswamy has endorsed. What is the future of U.S. participation in the NATO alliance?For object lessons, Alan recommended Tiffany Li’s brilliant contribution to McSweeney’s Internet Tendency, “Statement from the University on Current Tensions in the Place You’re Probably Thinking About When You Read This,” which satirizes…exactly what you’re thinking about. Quinta lightened the mood by talking about serial killers in recommending Robert Kolker’s new piece, “The Botched Hunt for the Gilgo Beach Killer,” in the New York Times Magazine. And Scott directed D.C. locals to his favorite amaro distillery, Don Ciccio & Figli, who is brewing up botanicals right here in the city’s own Ivy City neighborhood. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's another episode of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” recorded live before an audience of Lawfare Material Supporters on Thursday. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Roger Parloff and Quinta Jurecic, and Lawfare Fulton County Correspondent and Legal Fellow Anna Bower to talk about all the pleas that have happened in Fulton County and all the pleas that are coming. They talked about whether you can take back a plea by announcing that it was extorted, about the blizzard of motions to dismiss that Donald Trump has filed in the D.C. District Court, and about the government's response to the claims of presidential immunity.This is a live conversation that happens online every Thursday at 4:00pm Eastern Time. If you would like to come join and ask a question, be sure to visit Lawfare’s Patreon account and become a Material Supporter. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From July 3, 2018: Recep Tayyip Erdoğan won the Turkish election the other day, and becomes the first president under Turkey's new empowered presidential system. His party, in coalition with ultra-nationalists, will control the Parliament as well, so it's a big win for the Turkish president. It may be a loss for democratic values. On Tuesday, Benjamin Wittes sat down with Amanda Sloat, Robert Bosch Senior Fellow at Brookings, to discuss the election results, the crackdown in Turkey and the justifications for it, friction points in U.S.-Turkish relations, and what comes next for Turkey, the United States, and the EU. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It’s probably fair to say that the Israeli government was not the only one caught flat-footed by the deadly attack launched by Hamas on Oct. 7. On that day, several of the U.S. government’s top diplomatic posts in the Middle East were vacant, and the Biden administration had long focused most of its attention elsewhere in the world. And, in a now infamous episode from only a week prior to the attack, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan had said, “The Middle East region is quieter today than it has been in two decades.”But all that has changed. Though its record is still up for debate, the U.S. diplomatic response has kicked into gear, with several visits to the region from Sullivan, Secretary of State Blinken, President Biden, and other high-level U.S. officials. To take stock of the U.S. diplomatic response to the war thus far, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Akbar Shahid Ahmed, HuffPost's senior foreign affairs reporter, and Robbie Gramer, a diplomacy and national security reporter at Foreign Policy. They talked about the nearly broken Senate confirmation process, the fallout from a high-level diplomatic resignation, and the potential “mutiny brewing” inside the State Department. They also discussed whether or not a reported dissent cable circulating through the department might shift U.S. policy toward Israel-Palestine. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Many will recognize the voice of Steve Inskeep from his nearly two decades-long role hosting NPR's Morning Edition. But he's also the author of what is now a trilogy of books about political relationships in the United States during the 19th century, including his newly published Differ We Must: How Lincoln Succeeded in a Divided America. His newest book uses a unique framework to study Lincoln's leadership and growth: Describing in detail difficult interactions Lincoln had with sixteen individuals, ranging from generals to political opponents to his wife Mary Todd Lincoln.David Priess spoke with Steve about what drew him to Lincoln as a subject; the challenges of recreating private exchanges from long ago; the links between Differ We Must and his earlier books; Lincoln's difficult conversations with Joshua Giddings, Frederick Douglass, Jessie Benton Frémont, Lean Bear, and others; and enduring lessons of Lincoln's pragmatic leadership.Among the works mentioned in this episode:The book Differ We Must by Steve InskeepThe book Instant City by Steve InskeepThe book Jacksonland by Steve InskeepThe book Imperfect Union by Steve InskeepThe book series Abraham Lincoln: A History by John Nicolay and John HayThe book series Abraham Lincoln by Carl SandburgChatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals last week faintly endorsed the Justice Department’s reading of a critical felony charge, “corrupt obstruction of an official proceeding,” which the department has relied on to prosecute at least 317 individuals for their alleged roles in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot. In the case, United States v. Thomas Robertson, the court affirmed the Justice Department’s conception of the definition of “corruptly,” as stated in the charge. Robertson followed another D.C. Circuit ruling in April, United States v. Fischer, which upheld the charge even more fragilely.Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff detailed the court’s Robertson decision on Lawfare. Lawfare Research Fellow Matt Gluck sat down with Parloff to discuss Robertson, Fischer, and what it would mean for the Justice Department if its interpretation of the corrupt obstruction statute is ultimately rejected.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Another morning, another surprise plea deal in Fulton County Superior Court. It was Jenna Ellis this time, in front of Judge Scott McAfee, pleading out of the Fulton County election interference case. There was a tearful colloquy and a letter of apology to the people of Georgia. There is a cooperation agreement of some kind, and there is yet another sentence of probation. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down to talk about it all with Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower. They talked about how big a deal Jenna Ellis could be for Fani Willis, about how the DA's record is stacking up, about who might be next, and about who's going to hold out and force this whole thing to trial. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thanks to advances in digital technologies, it is now easier than ever for civilians to get involved in military cyber operations. From private civilian companies being involved in cyber defense to individuals engaging in offensive cyber operations against enemy targets, the increased participation of civilians in armed conflict is a risky trend.Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sat down with two guests who recently authored an article outlining eight rules to guide the behavior of civilian hackers during war. Tilman Rodenhäuser is a legal advisor at the International Committee of the Red Cross, or ICRC. Mauro Vignati is a senior adviser on new digital technologies of warfare, also at the ICRC. They talked about what could happen if the principle of distinction is eroded and civilians lose their status, what limits governments should impose on civilian hackers conducting cyber operations in the context of an armed conflict, and the response so far from hacker groups and the cybersecurity community. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The promise and risks posed by artificial intelligence appear to have captured our collective imagination. The risks seem to span from global doom brought about by a rogue AI to the enshrinement of harmful bias and discrimination in systems that can determine whether you get a loan. The stakes require governments to step up and regulate the field, with several key companies advocating for government action. This call has been answered, but conceptions of responsible AI risk management and appropriate regulations are already diverging across jurisdictions.To discuss the approaches to AI regulation in the United States and in the European Union, Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sat down with Arianna Evers, special counsel at WilmerHale, and Itsiq Benizri, counsel also at WilmerHale. Evers and Benizri recently authored an article on comparative approaches to AI regulation for Lawfare. They talked about the breadth of regulatory options being discussed, the similarities and differences across jurisdictions, and how the quickly evolving field affects how they help their clients navigate AI-related challenges. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on Rational Security, Alan, Quinta, and Scott were joined by their Lawfare colleague and Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Senior Fellow Eric Ciaramella to discuss the week’s big national security news, including:“PiS Off.” Elections in Poland appear set to oust the incumbent Law and Justice (or “PiS”) party, which has spent the past several years in power undermining many of the tenants of liberal democracy—that is, if the coalition of centrist and leftist groups that won a parliamentary majority can successfully form a government. What might this tell us about the authoritarian drift in Europe—and the extent to which it’s reversible?“Gaza Under Siege.” Israel’s military response to the massacre committed by Hamas is entering its second week, as rockets continue to rain down on Gaza, which remains cut off to most utilities, supplies, and humanitarian aid. President Biden, meanwhile, is in Israel showing his support, but has had to cancel meetings with Jordanian officials due to outrage over what Gaza authorities initially claimed—inaccurately, according to Israeli officials and the Biden administration—was an Israeli attack on a hospital there that killed more than 500 people. What is the trajectory of this conflict? Where is it headed?“Heir Jordan?” Conservative House judiciary committee chairman Jim Jordan is the latest possible inheritor of the Speakership in the House of Representatives, having won the nomination of the Republican caucus shortly after majority leader Steve Scalise went down in defeat on the floor. But Jordan also failed to win enough support for his colleagues in the first two votes on the floor. What does the state of the House mean for the country?For object lessons, Alan passed along his latest tonally off comfort watch: the British series A Spy Among Friends, which tells the story of notorious spy Kim Philby. Quinta recommended the new book, “Number Go Up,” by Zeke Faux. Scott urged folks to check out the surprisingly huggy and wholesome season 2 of The Bear. And secret musician Eric endorsed the Strong Songs podcast and its close look at the song writing process. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's another episode of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” our weekly YouTube livestream conducted on Zoom for Lawfare Material Supporters. It was a breaking news day on Thursday: Sidney Powell, the Kraken lawyer, pled guilty in a plea deal in Fulton County Superior Court, one day before she and Ken Chesebro were going to trial.To unpack it all, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Roger Parloff and Quinta Jurecic, Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower, and Lawfare Associate Editor Hyemin Han. They talked about the plea, about what it means for Ken Chesebro and the trial for which jury selection was set to start on Friday, about what happened this week in Tanya Chutkan's courtroom where a gag order was imposed on Donald Trump, and about the defense motion to dismiss on presidential immunity grounds in that courtroom and an article about it by Quinta Jurecic.On Oct. 20. Lawfare Senior Editor Scott Anderson sat down with Lawfare Legal Fellow and Courts Correspondent for a special edition of "Trump's Trials and Tribulations" to talk about Kenneth Chesebro's surprise guilty plea. This discussion is added to the end of the Thursday conversationThis is a live conversation that happens online every Thursday at 4:00pm Eastern Time. If you would like to come join and ask a question, be sure to visit Lawfare’s Patreon account and become a Material Supporter. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From July 7, 2018: It's been a bad week for Polish democracy, with the government removing a bunch of judges from the country's Supreme Court in order to replace them with party loyalists. In response, protestors took to the streets to push back against the deconsolidation of Polish democracy. Radek Sikorski joined Benjamin Wittes to discuss the week's events and the larger degradation of Polish governance of which they are a part. Radek served as foreign minister and defense minister of Poland, as well as speaker of the Polish parliament. He has also been a visiting fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and he's currently a senior fellow at the Center of European Studies at Harvard University and distinguished statesman at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Over the course of the last two presidential elections, efforts by social media platforms and independent researchers to prevent falsehoods from spreading about election integrity have become increasingly central to civic health. But the warning signs are flashing as we head into 2024. And platforms are arguably in a worse position to counter falsehoods today than they were in 2020. How could this be? On this episode of Arbiters of Truth, our series on the information ecosystem, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic sat down with Dean Jackson, who previously sat down with the Lawfare Podcast to discuss his work as a staffer on the Jan. 6 committee. He worked with the Center on Democracy and Technology to put out a new report on the challenges facing efforts to prevent the spread of election disinformation. They talked through the political, legal, and economic pressures that are making this work increasingly difficult—and what it means for 2024. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Journalist Liza Mundy’s new history of the world’s most storied spy service focuses on the women of the CIA, who for decades worked in jobs that men found less glamorous or career enhancing, and that proved vital to the interests of U.S. national security. The Sisterhood covers practically the entire history of the agency, from its pre-World War II days as the Office of Strategic Services, through the Cold War and the 9/11 attacks, followed by the successful hunt for Osama bin Laden. Shane Harris spoke with Mundy about why she decided to write about the women of the CIA and what that story reveals about the hidden history of the agency. Mundy’s previous book, Code Girls, was about American women who worked as code breakers during WWII.  Among the works mentioned in this episode:The Sisterhood: The Secret History of Women at the CIA   https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/653184/the-sisterhood-by-liza-mundy/ Code Girls: The Untold Story of the American Women Code Breakers of World War II: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/liza-mundy/code-girls/9780316352550/?lens=hachette-books Mundy’s website: http://www.lizamundy.com/  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In July 2021, the Chinese government published its “Regulations on the Management of Network Product Security Vulnerabilities.” These rules require researchers to inform the government of all flaws in code within 48 hours of their discovery, effectively supporting efforts to stockpile software vulnerabilities, which can then be used for offensive cyber operations.Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sat down with two guests who recently authored a report on how China manages software vulnerabilities. Dakota Cary is a nonresident fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Global China Hub and a consultant at Krebs Stamos Group. Kristin del Rosso is a public sector field CTO at IT security company Sophos. They talked about how companies have adjusted to China’s rules, how their system compares to the U.S. voluntary approach, and the incentives to collect vulnerabilities for offensive operations.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“Stories of armies, governments, agencies, and institutions have a way of obscuring the humans behind them,” writes Stuart Reid, an executive editor of Foreign Affairs in his new book, “The Lumumba Plot.” Indeed, his protagonist, Patrice Lumumba, lays claim to one of history’s most contested legacies. In January 1961, just months after taking office as the first prime minister of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Lumumba was killed in an assassination plot that remained shrouded in mystery for years. As his daughter Juliana once said, “He passed by like a meteor.” Amid this mystery and contestation, Stuart sets himself to the task of finding the real Lumumba. As Stuart writes, “This book seeks to exhume Lumumba, to scrape away the mounds of lies, mythology, and conspiracy that have accumulated around him over the decades.”Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Stuart to discuss his new book. They talked about the charismatic Congolese leader of course and the other colorful and consequential characters that fill Stuart’s pages, the CIA’s complicity in Lumumba’s assassination, and the neocolonial and Cold War attitudes that led U.S. leaders to view such a tragic foreign policy misstep as an unimpeachable success. They also discussed what lessons “The Lumumba Plot” has for policymakers today. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On September 28, the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, or PCLOB, issued its long-awaited report on FISA Sec. 702, a surveillance authority that is set to expire on December 31 if it is not reauthorized by Congress. The report was supported by only three members of the Board, with the two minority members issuing their own separate statement. The three-two split was along party lines. Lawfare Senior Editor Stephanie Pell sat down with four members of the PCLOB, the Chair, Sharon Bradford Franklin, and board members Travis LeBlanc, Beth Williams, and Richard DiZinno. Board member Ed Felten could not join due to medical reasons. In this second of two episodes, they talk about the members’ views on the privacy and civil liberties risks posed by Section 702 and each side’s differing recommendations on how to address these issues, with a special focus on the recommendation that is the most serious point of contention among the two sides. If you haven’t listened to yesterday’s episode, where they talked about the areas on which the members substantially agree and the compliance problems that have plagued the FBI, you may want to do that first.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On September 28, the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, or PCLOB, issued its long-awaited report on FISA Sec. 702, a surveillance authority that is set to expire on December 31 if it is not reauthorized by Congress. The report was supported by only three members of the Board, with the two minority members issuing their own separate statement. The three-two split was along party lines. Lawfare Senior Editor Stephanie Pell sat down with four members of PCLOB, the Chair, Sharon Bradford Franklin, and board members Travis LeBlanc, Beth Williams, and Richard DiZinno. Board member Ed Felten could not join due to medical reasons. In this first of two episodes, they talk about areas on which the members substantially agree, the compliance problems that have plagued the FBI, and each side’s different recommendations for how to address those compliance problems. In tomorrow’s podcast, they talk about the members’ views on the privacy and civil liberties risks posed by Section 702, and each side’s differing recommendations for how to address these issues, with a special focus on the recommendation that is the most serious point of contention among the two sides. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on Rational Security, Alan, Quinta, and Scott were joined by Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes for a serious conversation about Hamas’s attacks in Israel, Israel’s military response, and what it might mean for the rest of the world. Given the gravity of this topic, we chose to forego our usual format and commit the entire episode to this extended conversation. We will be back to our usual format next week. In the meantime, we hope you find our struggle to make sense of these tragic recent events useful as you try to do the same. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's another episode of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” our YouTube livestream conducted on Zoom for Lawfare Material Supporters. This week, we heard from Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff straight out of the Garcia hearings before Judge Aileen Cannon in the Mar-a-Lago case. We heard from Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower, who was straight off of two days of hearings in the Fulton County case. And Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic gave us an update from Judge Tanya Chutkan's courtroom on all the motions that have been filed since our last update. This is a live conversation that happens online every Thursday at 4:00pm Eastern Time. If you would like to come join and ask a question, be sure to visit Lawfare’s Patreon account and become a Material Supporter. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From May 8, 2012: Peter Berkowitz of the Hoover Institution has a new book out, entitled Israel and the Struggle Over the International Laws of War. The book, which is very brief—more of a long essay, really—is an impassioned critique of the abuse of the laws of war by Israel's critics in both international organizations and in the academy. Peter runs the Hoover Institution's Koret-Taube Task Force on National Security and Law, of which Ben and several other people associated with this blog are members. He's also—full disclosure—one Ben’s closest personal friends. He took a break from his almost unspeakable travel schedule yesterday to stop by Brookings and chat about his book. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The past two weeks have been a historical one for the House of Representatives. Last week, a band of dissident Republicans voted with House Democrats to remove Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy, leaving the office vacant. In his stead, a never-before House rule turned to a secret list of temporary successors that identified Congressman Patrick McHenry as the new Speaker Pro Tempore. But what exactly he is able to do in this role—and what it means for Congress’s ability to pass much needed legislation—is far from clear.To discuss this new predicament, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Brookings Institution Senior Fellow and Lawfare Senior Editor Molly Reynolds. They talked about the history of the rule behind McHenry’s appointment, what authority its authors intended for it to provide, and what it means for Israel, Ukraine, and the pending government shutdown. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Conventional wisdom has long held that countries, and even businesses, should not be run by those suffering from mental illness, especially during times of war or other dramatic challenges. Dr. Nassir Ghaemi, Director of the Mood Disorder Program at Tufts Medical Center and Professor of Psychiatry at Tufts University School of Medicine, disputes this notion. In his book A First-Rate Madness and other writings, he lays out a compelling case that in times of crisis, we are actually better off being led by mentally ill leaders than by mentally normal ones.David Priess and Nassir talked about the challenges (and surprising advantages) of assessing the mental illnesses of historical figures; the lingering impact of Freudian psychoanalysis within the psychiatric community; why the best crisis leaders are either mentally ill or mentally abnormal; the differences between mental illness and extreme personality; the indicators of manic depression; the cases of Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, William Sherman, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, and Adolf Hitler; enduring stigmas associated with mental illness; Nassir's father's political activism and its influence on his son; the American Psychiatric Association's "Goldwater Rule" against offering a professional psychiatric opinion without a patient examination and proper authorization; and more.Among the works mentioned in this episode:The book A First-Rate Madness by Nassir GhaemiMemoirs of Emil KraepelinThe book Bipolar General: My Forever War with Mental Illness by Gregg MartinChatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Artificial intelligence has massive upside potential. It could revolutionize education, science, and art, and lead to a more prosperous and equitable world. But it also carries equally massive downside risk—not just for individuals but for society and human civilization itself. How do we avail ourselves of AI's benefits while minimizing its costs?That's a question that our two guests today have thought a lot about. Tino Cuéllar is a former Stanford law professor and California supreme court justice, and he's currently the President of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Hadrien Pouget is an Associate Fellow in the Technology and International Affairs Program at Carnegie.Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Senior Editor at Lawfare spoke with Tino and Hadrien about what lessons history can and can't teach us when it comes to regulating AI and what an international regulatory framework for this technology might look like. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This past Saturday, the terrorist group Hamas launched an unprecedented raid from the Gaza Strip into southern Israel that left more than 1000 people—most of them Israeli civilians, many of them women, children, and the elderly—brutally murdered. Dozens more were taken as hostages back into Gaza. A shocked Israel has in turn responded with missile attacks into Gaza that have killed more than 800 Palestinians there, and is planning a broader offensive there. And as people search for more information on what’s transpired, there are concerns that events may yet spiral out into a broader regional war—one that, among other consequences, might derail efforts at normalization in the Israeli-Saudi relationship that have been a major focus of the United States in recent weeks.To discuss these tragic events and their potentially seismic consequences, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with a panel of leading experts: Natan Sachs, a Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution and Director of its Center for Middle East Policy; Dan Byman from the Center for Strategic & International Studies as well as Lawfare’s Foreign Policy Editor; Ghaith al-Omari of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy; and Lawfare’s Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes. They discussed the ripple effects the attack is having throughout the region, the role that Iran and other actors may have played, and what it may yet mean for the region and the broader world. Please note that this episode contains content that some people may find disturbing. Listener discretion is advised. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.