The Hurdle Rate Podcast

Episode 54: The Management of The Treasury [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:55] The Accumulation Phase [00:21:00] Digital Credit as The Hurdle Rate [00:40:45] Moderate Duration

Episode 53 - Bitcoin, AI and The New QE Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:45] US Debt Crisis [00:17:37] AI Disruption in The Startup Economy [00:30:58] Debasement & Portfolio Construction [00:44:34] Which Type of Non-Bitcoin Company Would Even Be Attractive Now?

Episode 52 - An Increasingly Digital World Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:10] The Latest News from Strategy [00:14:00] Private Credit Liquidity Issues [00:32:23] The Correlation Between Private Credit and Public Credit Markets

Episode 51 - A Digital Credit Treasury Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:36] Strive ASST & SATA Update [00:49:14] Strategy’s Latest Buy

Episode 50 - Some Pretty Good Money Printing Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:03:20] Strategy’s Latest [00:12:55] 20 Millionth Bitcoin is Mined [00:37:15] The Speed at Which AI is Advancing

Episode 49 - Digital Credit is for Corporations Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:02:00] Bitcoin as Digital Freedom Money Amid Global Uncertainty [00:20:30] Strategy World Recap [00:27:55] STRC as The Hurdle Rate? [00:39:20] Traditional Finance at Strategy World [00:50:40] The Liquidity Component [01:05:50] Closing Thoughts

Episode 48 - Bullish Digital Credit Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:51] Reflections on Bitcoin Investor Week & Matt’s Cardone Debate [00:10:28] Amplification in a Bear Market [00:22:04] The True Risk Profile of Digital Credit Instruments [00:37:00] Private Credit, Compounding GDP, and Government Spending [00:45:35] AI Disruption and the K Shaped Economy

Episode 47 - A Time To Build Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:50] Bitcoin Investor Week in NYC [00:09:50] Bull vs Bear Markets [00:28:00] Is the Bottom In? [00:41:40] Strategy’s Earnings Call

Episode 46 - Build The Structure Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:05] Kevin Warsh Named Fed Chair [00:24:38] Clawdbots & Moltbook [00:32:10] The Pref Only Model & Digital Risk [00:44:05] Bitcoin as a Term Asset & What a Supercycle Means

Episode 45 - Preferred Equity Demand Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:40] Does the Preferred Equity Present a Systemic Risk to Bitcoin? [00:21:42] Strive + Semler: The First M&A Transaction in Bitcoin Treasuries [00:33:30] IBIT Bitcoin Covered Call ETF [00:41:51] Gold & Silver Price Action [00:47:30] What is Japan Saying to the World Right Now? [00:58:54] Bitcoin in an Action-Packed 2026

Episode 44 - Digital Credit Clarity Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:56] Strategy’s Latest [00:11:55] Credit Spreads Hit All Time Tights [00:30:06] Coinbase Pulls Out of Clarity Act [00:43:54] Matt Cole Corners the Bitcoin Treasury Podcast Industrial Complex

Episode 43 - The Best Message Is Digital Credit Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:02:55] Strategy’s $1.25 Billion Orange Buy [00:15:56] Michael Saylor on What Bitcoin Did [00:39:58] Jerome Powell in Hot Water and Disenchantment with the Fed [00:49:30] Trump Caps Credit Card Interest [00:56:03] Strive Semler Merger

Episode 42 - Pensions, Private Equity & Digital Credit Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com 0:00 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 0:55 - Strategy Gears Up for Massive 2026 12:10 - Looking Back at 2025: Year Zero in Digital Credit 30:12 - Capital Allocation and Pension Funds 50:18 - 2026 Outlook

Episode 41 - Structurally Bullish Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:21] Reflections on 2025 [00:08:14] The Bitcoin Era [00:18:12] Amplification and the Power of Compounding [00:30:30] Do You Beat The Hurdle Rate of Bitcoin? [00:53:04] Tim’s Review of Bitcoin Treasuries Big Year

Episode 40 - Set Up For A Supercycle Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:02:08] The Latest on Bitcoin [00:10:18] A Decade-Long Supercycle? [00:19:47] OCC Greenlights Crypto Bank Charters [00:26:14] Valuations [00:34:48] Quantum Risks? [00:40:15] MSTR Staying in Nasdaq 100 [00:43:57] Final Thoughts

Episode 39 - The Hurdle Rate Is High Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:30] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:30] Bitcoin MENA [00:22:53] Bitcoin As The Hurdle Rate [00:37:27] Closing Thoughts

Episode 38 - The Incentives Are Aligned Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:40] The Incentives Are Aligned [00:10:50] MSTR’s Green Dots & USD Reserve [00:46:16] STRC Dividend Rate Hike

Episode 37 - Meet Them Where They're At Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:50] Market Uncertainty & MSCI Exclusions [00:34:14] Mike Green Article and the K-Shaped Economy

Episode 36 - Inside the Digital Credit Revolution Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:30] Bitcoin Amsterdam & Cantor Conference Miami Recaps [00:19:24] Volatility in the Prefs [00:41:08] Underwriting Bitcoin [00:47:28] Hedging with Zcash?

Episode 35 - Amplified Bitcoin and Digital Credit Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:30] The IPOs of Digital Credit [00:12:41] The Process of Launching a Preferred Product [00:27:06] ASST & SATA Update

Episode 34 - The Preferred Strategy is Digital Credit Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:34] Strive’s SATA Announcement [00:01:15] Strategy Introduces Stream [00:15:37] MSTR Q3 Earnings Call Recap [00:36:10] ROC Dividends [00:42:02] Additional Highlights from Strategy Earnings Report

Episode 33 - Credit Ratings for Digital Capital Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:30] Strategy Gets a Credit Rating [00:12:43] How This Will Impact the Insurance Industry [00:21:50] Interest Coverage Ratio and Industry Credit Ratings [00:27:23] What Will It Take for Bitcoin Treasury Companies Credit Ratings to Go Higher? [00:44:08] Mike Alfred, Big Volumes, and What It All Means [00:51:18] US China Trade Deal and Other Macro Tailwinds

Episode 32 - Strategic Risk Taking Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:34] Recapping Tim’s Latest Bitcoin Treasuries Digital Conference [00:13:34] Sentiment vs Conviction with Bitcoin Treasury Companies [00:25:17] Why do Bitcoin Treasury Companies Exist? [00:38:18] Strategic Risk Taking

Episode 31 - The Digital Credit Landscape Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:02:00] Crypto Crash of October 11 [00:21:11] Launching a Treasury Company from Zero [00:43:44] Deep Dive on Private Credit

Episode 30 - Focus on the Future Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:20] Ben Werkman Joins Strive as CIO [00:18:07] Tribalism and Doubt in Bitcoin [00:32:47] The Fastest Growing ETF of All Time [00:35:03] CAMT - Corporate Alternative Minimum Tax [00:41:52] Uptober Getting Revved Up

Episode 29 - Bitcoin Supercycle Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:24] Breaking News: Tim is All In and Dedicating His Life to Bitcoin [00:10:11] Bitcoin vs Other Store of Value Assets [00:21:41] Bitcoin Super Cycle? [00:26:30] Digital ID Rollout in the UK [00:41:00] Strategy Dividend Day

Episode 28 - The M&A Era has Begun Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:15] Strive Acquires Semler Scientific [00:19:39] The Impact of Meeting Bitcoiners in Person [00:26:40] Behind the Scenes of the Bitcoin Treasuries NYC Unconference with Tim [00:38:55] Operating with a Long Term View in Bitcoin

Episode 27 - The Starting Line Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:32] Strive Announces Board of Directors [00:29:57] Rate Cut on Wednesday? [0036:57] Bitcoin Treasuries Unconference [00:46:51] Options on the Prefs

Episode 26 - Zoom Out. We're Early. Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:40] No Strategy in the S&P 500 [00:14:20] Michael Saylor Reframes the World of Risk [00:37:11] The Landscape of Strategy’s ATMs [00:40:58] Pierre’s Closing Thoughts

Episode 25 - Will Travel for Bitcoin Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:23] Recapping Bitcoin Asia [00:21:22] STRC Dividend Increases [00:34:13] Fed Independence and What Rates Should Do

Episode 24 - Fed Signals and Equity Stakes Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:45] Meet The Hurdle Rate’s First Guest Host, Avik Roy [00:02:44] Strive’s Major News Announcement [00:08:40] The Fed Symposium in Jackson Hole [00:29:59] Intel & The US Government [00:56:33] Update on Tim’s Unconference

Episode 23 - Noise in the Market Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:30] Trading Below 1 mNAV? [00:27:41] Gold Revaluation [00:36:51] Bitcoin Treasury Executive Compensation [00:42:10] Preferred Liquidation Preference

Episode 22 - Commodity, Security, Token Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:30] Bo Hines to the Private Sector [00:08:30] ETH Treasury Companies and Scale [00:31:57] Tim’s NYC Unconference [00:40:44] Strategy’s 5 Year Bitcoin Anniversary

Episode 21 - The Intelligent Leverage Trade: Winter Isn't Coming Back Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:34] Recapping MSTR Earnings Call [00:09:49] Strategy’s ATM Adjustment [00:21:00] MSTR’s Bitcoin Per Share [00:30:03] Only Look at Leverage Ratio [00:45:08] Could Bitcoin Treasury Companies Lead to the Next Bear Market?

Episode 20 - Convert to IPO Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:15] STRC IPO [00:13:07] Converts and MSTR Earnings Expectations [00:22:38] No ATM Usage from Strategy [00:37:30] US Trade Deal with EU [00:44:16] mNAV Indicator of Store of Value

Episode 19 - A Huge Wave of Capital isn't a STRC Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:23] - STRC - What Does It Mean to You? [00:20:54] - Real Estate Vs Perpetual Preferred Products [00:38:45] - Is Winter Coming Back? [00:50:25] - Ben Breaks The Top 20 [00:51:01] 351 and Joining the Strive Family

Episode 18 - Transparency is Not Priced In Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. [00:00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:01:47] Strategy’s Latest Buy [00:08:25] Altcoin Treasury Companies? [00:18:58] AI’s Impact on Bitcoin Treasury Companies [00:25:17] Breaking Down ‘Analysts’ Estimates on MSTR [00:33:24] So Much for Sideways Summer? [00:37:51] The End of Earnings Volatility? [00:41:28] The Mispricing of Risk for Bitcoin Treasury Companies [00:43:36] New Tariffs, No Flinch

Episode 17 - Strategy hits their STRD Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00:00] - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:00:13] - Jeff’s Big Announcement [00:13:17] - What Does STRD Having an ATM Facility in the Market Mean to You? [00:19:19] - How Big Should a Company be Before Issuing Preferred Products? [00:32:42] - Elon Musk - “Fiat is Hopeless”

Episode 16 - Dividend Drip Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:21] The Dividend Drip [07:38] Strategy Added to Russell Top 200 Value Index [13:16] Stock Market Hits All Time Highs [19:00] Bitcoin - Nothing Stops This Train [28:52] Will Investors Be Scared Off By This Recent Run? [50:35] Metaplanet Hits #5

Episode 15 - Billions in Bitcoin Treasuries Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [01:16] Tim and Matt Recap BTC Prague [09:53] Where Can Bitcoin Treasury Companies Be 4 Years From Now? [24:39] Alt season [30:20] New Announcements in the Bitcoin Treasury Space [41:25] Aggression and The Digital Transformation of Investor Relations [53:02] Matt Cole on True North?

Episode 14 - The World's Evolving Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com [00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:30] Altcoin Treasury Strategy? [05:46] Is Chanos the Next Hurdle Rate Host? [14:31] Checking In on the US Dollar [25:57] Talking Your Own Bag [37:05] Saylor's Latest Bitcoin Buy & Explaining Strategy [46:54] Bitcoin's Resilience Amid Global Tension

Episode 13 - Building for Decades [00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [01:29] What’s Going On with American Politics? [14:46] Bitcoin Treasury Companies as Tax Advantaged Perpetual Bitcoin Dividend Drips [20:02] The Upside in STRD [31:40] Is There Something Holding the Bond Market Back? [46:39] Thinking Through the Leverage Ratio of Strategy Thank you to our sponsor, Swan Bitcoin. We buy Bitcoin at Swan.com

Episode 12 - Upgrade with Junk Grade [00:00] - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:20] - STRD Announcement Reaction [29:40] - Has Bitcoin Peaked for this Cycle? [37:02] - James Wynn’s Wild Ride [38:40] - What Should the Bitcoin Interest Rate Be?

Episode 11 - People Are Dancing [00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:11] Recap of the Past Week [03:48] GameStop’s Bitcoin Treasury Announcement [16:24] True North Meetup in Vegas [22:22] Strive’s Big Announcement [39:07] Closing Thoughts

Episode 10 - Have Bitcoin, Get Money [00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:40] Another Big Buy for MSTR [17:11] Semler Scientific adds Natalie Brunell to their Board [26:55] Jamie Dimon’s Bitcoin comments [37:26] US Debt gets Downgraded [53:20] Class action lawsuit vs Strategy

Episode 9 - A Movement Has Started [00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [02:14] The latest in the Bitcoin Treasury space [12:12] Being bold and having courage [28:00] Why are retail investors understanding Strategy’s playbook better than institutions? [34:46] What will be the main themes for investors to learn about? [49:00] Closing thoughts

Episode 8 - Strategy World Recap: A Revolution Ignited [00:00] Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate [00:34] - Strategy World Recap [07:10] - Strive’s Announcement [19:44] - How Michael Saylor utilized AI to create fixed income products [23:19] - Tim’s takeaways from the conference [26:52] - Ben’s conference breakdown [29:07] - Matt’s remarks on the conference [30:55] - Is Jeff a double or triple Maxi?