The Grenfell Tower Inquiry Podcast

A legal discussion about whether to offer blanket protection from self-incrimination put the Inquiry on hold this week. We look into what this really means, and explain how building regulations work in England. Presenter / producer : Kate Lamble Producer: Luke Radcliff Researcher: May Cameron Contact us via email: [email protected]

The opening statements of Phase 2 of the inquiryPhase 2 of the inquiry started by looking at the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower. The lead counsel to the inquiry said the majority of organisations involved in the redevelopment were indulging in a merry-go-round of buck-passing. Presenter / producer : Kate Lamble Producer: Luke Radcliff Researcher: May Cameron Contact us via email: [email protected]

Phase 2 of the Grenfell Tower Inquiry starts on Monday 27th January 2020. It will investigate how the tower was covered in combustible materials during a refurbishment, breaching building regulations. Contact us via email: [email protected]

The last podcast analysing the Phase 1 report. In this episode we look in detail at the ‘systemic failings’ Sir Martin Moore-Bick found in the fire brigade’s response. Including in their training, equipment, and their failure to consider a full or partial evacuation of the tower. Producer Kate Lamble Researcher Tom Wright Contact us via email: [email protected]

The report says there was a fundamental failure of command and control when it came to the firefighters at Grenfell. In this episode we look at how the story of flat 142 illustrates this. Producer Kate Lamble Researcher Tom Wright Contact us via email: [email protected]

The report into Phase 1 of the Inquiry found that the tower did not comply with building regulations. In this episode we take a closer look at what happened to the building during the fire and the conclusions and recommendations made by the chair, Sir Martin Moore-Bick. Producer Kate Lamble Researcher Tom Wright Contact us via email: [email protected]

The report into Phase 1 of the inquiry was released today.It found that the tower breached building regulations. It was critical of the London Fire Brigade’s response, arguing that more people would have survived if they had evacuated the tower by 1.50 in the morning.In this episode we look at the main conclusions and recommendations made by the inquiry. Producer Kate Lamble Researcher Tom Wright Contact us via email: [email protected]

The report into Phase 1 of the inquiry is due to be released on the 30th October. In this episode we discuss what that report may include, as well as what the inquiry has been doing since the last piece of evidence was heard ten months ago. Producer Kate Lamble Contact us via email: [email protected]

On the 14th floor of Grenfell Tower, firefighters moved eight residents into flat 113. Only four would survive. Using evidence from phase 1 of the Grenfell Tower Public Inquiry, Katie Razzall pieces together what went wrong that night in flat 113. The answer reveals a catalogue of errors which may help to explain the wider disaster.Producer: Kate LambleContact us via email: [email protected]

The final day of hearings for Phase 1. The Tenant Management Organisation, which ran Grenfell Tower, acknowledged that the external cladding created an unprecedented fire. Companies which supplied products used during the refurbishment also submitted written statements.Producer Kate Lamble Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Lawyers for survivors called for the stay-put advice to be changed to get out. Counsel for the tenant in flat 16 where the fire started said the inquiry should conclude the fire was accidental. He urged the inquiry not to use firefighters as sacrificial lambs. Producer Kate Lamble Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The London Fire Brigade acknowledges it was overwhelmed on the night of the fire. Lawyers for the bereaved, survivors and residents criticise the fire brigade’s response and argue the tower didn’t meet building regulations. Producer Kate Lamble Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Today the inquiry heard evidence from the written statements given by the bereaved, survivors and residents of Grenfell.These included accounts from Emmanuella Desaro whose daughter Gloria Trevisan died on the top floor of Grenfell Tower, and Adriana Ramirez, the mother of 12-year-old Jessica Urbano Ramirez, who went up the tower to try to escape the fire. Witness statements from residents who were evacuated from their homes in the wider Lancaster West Estate were also read out.Producers Elisabeth Mahy and Kate Lamble Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Expert witness Professor David Purser believes people are more likely to have died from smoke inhalation than from exposure to heat and flames. During a presentation to the inquiry Professor Purser explained how irritants and gases in the smoke would have affected residents and impeded their escape. Producers Elisabeth Mahy and Kate Lamble Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Forensic Scientist, Niamh Nic Daeid, agreed that the fire started in the fridge freezer in Flat 16. She told the inquiry she’s certain it was an accident. The Inquiry also released statements from the London Fire Brigade, the local council and the government about what changes they have made since the fire at Grenfell Tower. Producers Elisabeth Mahy and Kate Lamble Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Electrical expert Dr Duncan Glover told the inquiry it’s likely the fire started when the wiring in a fridge freezer in Flat 16 overheated. He explained how a small piece of wire, discovered in a bedroom 27 days after the fire, led him to this conclusion. Producers Elisabeth Mahy and Kate Lamble Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Nicholas Burton lived in flat 165 on the 19th floor of Grenfell Tower with his wife, Pily, and their dog. In an extended interview with Eddie Mair, Nicholas talks about life at Grenfell before the fire and how he had to give up work to care for his wife who developed dementia. He describes the night of the fire and the impact it has had on him. Contact us via email: [email protected]

Dr. Barbara Lane returned to give a second day of evidence. This time she focusses on fire prevention and safety measures in place inside Grenfell Tower on the night of the fire. The inquiry heard how flat doors did not meet safety regulations, and how firefighters were unable to take control of the lifts. Listen to the full story here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p066rd9tProducer Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry heard from Call Room Operators Yvonne Adams, Christine Howson and Heidi Fox. Yvonne Adams took a call from a woman trapped on the 14th floor who pleaded with her to send for help. Christine Howson said it was so noisy in the control room that she found it difficult to hear callers. Listen to the full story here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p066rd9tProducer Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry heard from expert witness Dr Barbara Lane, a specialist in fire engineering.Her 2,000 page-long report focuses on the fire prevention and safety measures in place on the night of the fire, and to what extent these measures failed to control its spread. Dr Lane told the inquiry that parts of the external cladding did not meet required safety standards. Producer Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Expert witness Professor Luke Bisby explained how the fire spread. He told the inquiry that advice for residents to stay in their flats in the event of a fire should have been scrapped as soon as combustible cladding was fitted to the tower. Producer Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry hears from Expert Witnesses. Fire safety expert Professor José Torero described how compartmentation in the building failed, and how materials in the external cladding may have contributed to the vertical spread of the fire. Producer Kate Lamble Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Sarah Russell had been working as a Control Room Officer for only 9 months before the Grenfell Tower fire. The inquiry heard how she spent almost an hour on the phone with 12 year old Jessica Urbano Ramirez who died on the 23rd floor. The London control room was unable to handle all of the 999 calls made on the night of the fire. Control room officers from Surrey, Kent, and Essex Fire and Rescue Services who helped answer overflow calls also gave evidence. Producers Kate Lamble Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry heard evidence from senior officials in the tenant management organisation which ran the tower. Graham Webb was responsible for repairs inside the building. Hash Chamchoun was Head of Supported Housing. Both were present at Grenfell on the night of the fire. The inquiry also heard from Teresa Brown, who was Director of Housing in June 2017. She described how on the night she gathered information about survivors and residents reported missing. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry heard from Nickolas Leyton and Michael Rumble, officials from the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea Council. They both were present at the scene on the night of the fire.Robert Black was chief executive of the council’s tenant management organisation at the time of the fire. He told the inquiry that he remembered very little from events on the night, saying he was “a spare part”. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry hears how the gas supply to Grenfell wasn’t disconnected until 23.40. Jason Allday from Cadent told the inquiry that gas contributed to the fire at Grenfell. He spent 24 hours at the scene cutting the supply.The enquiry also heard 23 written statements submitted by witnesses whose relatives died in the fire. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry heard how the Metropolitan Police and London Ambulance Service struggled to give advice to residents trapped in the tower who had called 999. Neil Jerome, told the inquiry he didn’t know why the change in stay put advice wasn’t communicated to the police. Paul Woodrow, the director of operations for the London Ambulance Service explained why paramedics did not enter the tower. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Today the inquiry heard from the two most senior police officers to attend the fire.Inspector Nicholas Thatcher declared the fire a Major Incident shortly before arriving at the scene. Today he told the inquiry how he was afraid the tower would collapse onto members of the public watching from the ground. Commander Neil Jerome, chief officer on-call in London on the night of the fire, also gave evidence. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry heard five weeks of evidence from the bereaved, survivors and residents of Grenfell Tower. Thirty-five witnesses gave evidence in person. One hundred and forty written statements have been read-in and published. In this edition of the podcast Eddie Mair pieces together some of the issues that have come up. Producer Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Warning you may find some parts of this podcast distressingMarcio Gomes told the inquiry how he and his family got out of Grenfell tower from the 21st floor. This includes audio from a 999 call he made on his way down the tower with his daughters and pregnant wife. A 999 call operator remained on the line with Mr Gomes for 33 minutes. The family were separated in the smoke-filled stairwell. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Warning you may find some parts of this podcast distressing.Marcio Gomes told the inquiry how he and his family got out of Grenfell tower from the 21st floor. The inquiry heard a 999 call he made on his way down the tower. The inquiry also heard evidence from the last person to leave the tower. Elpido Bonifacio, who is registered as blind. He wasn’t rescued until after 8am.Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The Inquiry heard evidence from Natasha Elcock who lived on the 11th floor. Firefighters didn't reach her and her family until 4.30 in the morning. She made 14 calls to the emergency services while she was trapped in her flat. Hanan Wahabi lived in Flat 66 on the 9th floor. After she and her family escaped the tower, she called her brother Abdulaziz El-Wahabi who lived higher up the tower. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Elizabeth Sobiesczak had lived in Grenfell Tower for 32 years before the fire. Today she described how she got out from the seventh floor with her husband and daughter.The inquiry also heard written evidence from 21 bereaved, survivors and residents. These included accounts from the 15th, 10th, 8th and 6th floors. . Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Nicholas Burton and his wife were rescued by firefighters from their flat on the 19th floor. The inquiry heard how he was led down the stairs through thick black smoke. Helen Gebremeskel who lived on the 21st floor also gave evidence. Her twelve year old daughter was carried from the tower by firefighters after she collapsed in the stairwell. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry heard from three witnesses today. They all escaped the tower within forty-five minutes of the first 999 call being made. Rashida Ali left her flat on the 15th floor with her daughter. Her husband Sid Ali Atmani was unwell and chose to stay in bed when his family left. He told the Inquiry how he made the decision to leave the flat when he realised the severity of the fire. Hoang Khanh Quang lived on the 10th floor. She was woken up by the sound of the fire alarm to find flames at her kitchen window. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Sener Macit stayed in his flat on the 16th floor until after 3.30. It was then the fire broke through his windows, setting his curtains, bed and wardrobe alight. Alemishet Demissie who lived on the 12th floor also gave evidence. She and a friend who was staying in her flat described how the floor turned black while they were trapped. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Roy Smith thought he and his family were going to die on the 12th floor of Grenfell Tower. Today the inquiry heard how they got out. Written evidence was also read out today. The inquiry heard excerpts from statements made by friends and relatives of the Choucair family, and relatives of Berikti Haftom. Statements from survivors from the 18th and 9th floor were also read out.Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry heard evidence from Paulos Tekle. His five-year old son, Isaac, got separated from his parents while they were trying to escape from the 18th floor. He died.Rabia Yahya escaped from the 18th floor with her three children. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Naomi Li is one of two residents from the 22nd floor who survived the fire. She described how she sheltered in a neighbour’s flat before deciding to try and escape down the stairs. Hamid Wahbi lived on the 16th floor of Grenfell tower. He was the only one of his family at home on the night of the fire. Written evidence was read out from other bereaved, survivors and residents. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Farhad Neda carried his mother Flora down the stairs from the 23rd floor. His father Saber Neda stayed in the flat, assisting other residents who had fled up the tower. The inquiry also heard written evidence from Ahmed Elgwahry who was on the phone to his sister and mother when they were trapped on the top floor. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia BeazleyContact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry hears how a resident escaped from the 20th floorIgnoring advice to stay put, Petra Doulova and her husband made their way down the smoke filled stairwell. Jose Vieiro witnessed his kitchen window cave in and his curtains catching fire before he and his wife escaped from their flat on the 7th floor. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia BeazleyContact us via email: [email protected]

The inquiry hears from two of the eight residents of Grenfell Tower who sheltered in flat 113 on the 14th floor. Among them was Omar Alhaj Ali who managed to escape the fire. He got separated from his brother Mohammad who did not survive. In desperation Oluwasuen Talabi made a make-shift rope from bed sheets and attempted to get his family out of the flat. He eventually escaped down the stairs with his daughter strapped to his back. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Rosemary Oyewole’s neighbours sheltered in her flat on the 14th floor as the fire spread. She tells the inquiry how her partner made a make-shift rope from bedsheets. They eventually escaped down the staircase with their four year old daughter. The inquiry also heard written statements from seventeen others among the bereaved, survivors and residents. Richard Millett QC read the accounts of some of those who had escaped from other floors, been absent from their flats at the time of the fire, or who lived near Grenfell Tower and witnessed the events unfold. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia Beazley Contact us via email: [email protected]

Richard Fletcher described how he carried his six-year-old daughter from the 16th floor of the tower. Mariko Toyoshima-Lewis, who uses a wheelchair, waited 45 minutes to be rescued from the 3rd floor of Grenfell Tower. Today she described her experience.Also, housing expert, Richard Blanco, explains who is responsible for the upkeep, refurbishment and safety of residential tower blocks where there are multiple landlords and tenancies. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia BeazleyContact us via email: [email protected]

Sam Daniels’ father, Joseph, had dementia and was confused as the fire spread to their 16th floor flat. Today the Grenfell Tower Inquiry heard how Sam had to leave his father in the flat to look for help. Also, Branislav Lukic described how he escaped his flat on the 11th floor and rescued another Grenfell resident on his way down. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia BeazleyContact us via email: [email protected]

Meron Mekonnen ignored stay put advice and escaped Grenfell tower with her partner and two young daughters. She had been told to get out by her aunt, Hiwot Dagnachew, who fled from the 5th floor. They describe making phone calls to a friend still trapped in the tower. Maher Khoudair also gave evidence. He told the inquiry how he walked down the stairs from his ninth floor flat on crutches. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia BeazleyContact us via email: [email protected]

Munira Mahmud left from her flat with their two young children, her husband and his elderly father. She described the last phone call she had with a close friend stuck on the 23rd floor. Nadia Jafari told of how she was separated from her 82-year-old father as they tried to escape the fire in a smoke-filled lift.Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Olivia BeazleyContact us via email: [email protected]

One of the first people to escape Grenfell tower, Miguel Alves, ignored fire safety advice to stay put, saying it was like “waiting in a trap”. Plus, an 18th floor resident tells the inquiry the building was like a ‘ticking time bomb’.Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Oliver Jones Contact us via email: [email protected]

Antonio Roncolato and Fatima Alves – the first two survivors to give evidence to the inquiry – recount their experience on the night. Antonio was trapped in the tower until just after 6am and Fatima let the first firefighters into the building. Producers Kate Lamble and Elisabeth Mahy Researcher Oliver Jones Contact us via email: [email protected]

Since June we’ve heard evidence from 82 firefighters. Many carried out rescues, others dealt with 999 calls and some took charge of the incident. In this edition of the podcast Eddie Mair pieces together some of the issues that have arisen.Producer Oliver Jones Contact us via email: [email protected]