Crafting the Perfect Ride: Inside the World of Titanium Frame Building with Brad Bingham

This week we dive into the world of titanium frame building with Brad Bingham. Based in the Steamboat Springs, Colorado, Brad has been crafting custom frames for an impressive 27 years. Starting his journey as a welding enthusiast in high school, Brad's passion for making things led him to the art of bike building. But his skills go beyond frames – he even built his own home with the help of his retired custom home builder father.

In this episode, Brad reveals the importance of learning how to do things for oneself and consulting experts. He shares his experience working for a dental equipment manufacturer before diving headfirst into the world of bikes. From working at renowned bike manufacturer Moots to eventually taking over Kent Erickson Cycles, Brad's journey is a testament to his dedication and expertise.

Brad and our host, Randall Jacobs, delve into the nitty-gritty details of bike design. They discuss everything from tube selection and mitering to the impact of weight bias and alignment. Brad's deep knowledge of geometry, materials, and manufacturing processes makes this episode a must-listen for any bike enthusiast or aspiring frame builder.

But what sets Brad apart from the rest? Well, his attention to detail and commitment to customer satisfaction are second to none. As the owner of Bingham Built Bikes, he prioritizes open communication and mutual respect. With his wife, Hannah, by his side, they handle everything from bike design and production to backend operations. Their tiny operation may be limited in size, but it's big on passion and craftsmanship.

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Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos:

[00:00:00]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So I'm, I'm Brad Bingham. I'm, uh, based out of Steamboat Springs, Colorado, and I'm a custom titanium frame builder. Uh, been doing that here in Colorado for, gosh, going on what, 27 years?

[00:00:17]Randall Jacobs (host): Wow. 20, 27 years,

[00:00:20]Brad Bingham: Correct. Yep.

[00:00:21]Randall Jacobs (host): you don't look, you started welding when you were like eight.

[00:00:27]Brad Bingham: Uh, no. I, I really started welding in earnest, um, senior in high school. I.

[00:00:35]Randall Jacobs (host): No kidding.

[00:00:36]Brad Bingham: And then, yeah, I moved here to, to Steamboat right after I turned 20. And

[00:00:41]Randall Jacobs (host): so me about those first welding experiences. How'd you get into it? Was it starting with bikes or was it, uh, a general, was it a vocational program? What was the nature of

[00:00:51]Brad Bingham: it, it was very bike centric, so I, I knew that I wanted to construct bike frames, uh, mountain bikes specifically. And to do that, I needed to know how to, you know, join two tubes together. And at the time, I mean, I was 18 years old and didn't have any welding experience whatsoever. So I went and took a, uh, evening like, uh, community college TIG welding course.

It was like a 75 hour course and took that in the, in the evenings after work. Um, And I walked in there with a couple of parted off pieces of Reynolds bike tubing and I said, I just need to know how to put these two things together.

[00:01:40]Randall Jacobs (host): And so this is really, I mean, this has been your path in life since

[00:01:45]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:45]Randall Jacobs (host): beginning.

[00:01:46]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:46]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, that's, uh, it seems like an increasingly rare phenomenon to have such clarity at a young age at what you wanna do and then to go out and do it. So, uh, good on you. Some of us, some of us, it takes a lot longer.

[00:01:58]Brad Bingham: Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was always really passionate about making things. I, I just always needed to be making something or working on something. And luckily the bikes found me, you know, 'cause I was a rider and, um, the idea of building bikes was, you know, not, not anything that crossed my mind until a good friend of mine said, well, why don't you just build your own. And that was, that was the genesis.

[00:02:31]Randall Jacobs (host): So, and we were just talking a moment ago, I, I, I was apologizing for the, the state of affairs in my house. 'cause I'm in the process of building a new house around the husk of a, of a old derelict, but, but lovely, uh, home that I just purchased. And you mentioned you built your home as well. So tell me a little bit about that.

I'm kind of curious about this builder mentality,

[00:02:53]Brad Bingham: yeah. So yeah, I did not, you know, obviously I did not build the entire home myself. Um, my dad was a, um, was a custom home builder for 25 years, and so he was retired at the time, and this was 2000, like 2002 to 2004. Um, he had just recently finished a home helping out my sister build, build a home in Bend, Oregon. And so about a, uh, about a year, year and a half after that, Um, I talked him into coming out here and, and helping me build a home. So it was a big, big project, but really, he, I have to say he did at least 80, 85% of the heavy lifting. Like, yeah, I mean, he was, he was amazing. He's, he passed away in 2008. Um, but he was just a super smart guy and really good at building homes and being efficient, not wasting materials.

Um, you know, I was a, I was working for Moots at the time. Didn't have a huge salary or anything. It's not like I was a rich guy. We were really trying to build it as inexpensively as possible.

[00:04:11]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. Well, and I think, um, granted, sounds like your father was far more expert than mine, but we share that. Um, my, my father passed in oh seven and I didn't get to build a home with him, but I did get to work on, um, a couple of properties that, um, uh, he had, uh, my parents had purchased with, um, a aunt and uncle.

And these properties were always underwater and always, you know, falling apart. And they'd never had the budget to do, you know, to hire out. And so it's just like, all right, we need to figure this out. And that's how I learned. You know, one of the key ways that I learned how to use tools, how to do things for myself, and there's a certain, um, there's a certain sense of, um, one personal responsibility and also with that personal, um, uh, competence and confidence that goes with learning from a young age to do things like, you don't need to hire an expert.

You can consult experts. Maybe sometimes you do, but you can learn this. So that's, uh, that would seem to have carried into, uh, a lot of things in, in, uh, in what you've done starting at age 20 welding frames

[00:05:21]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. And prior to that I was, you know, I was always on my dad's job sites, um, mostly cleaning up, you know? Um,

[00:05:31]Randall Jacobs (host): as, as one does, and at when you're a grunt.

[00:05:34]Brad Bingham: yep, yep. But, but yeah, you do learn a lot and yeah. Good stuff. Mm-hmm.

[00:05:41]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, so tell me, so you mentioned you, you take this course, right? You're, you're in high school or just outta high school, and you go to work for Moots right after. How'd that come about?

[00:05:51]Brad Bingham: No, I was, uh, I had the opportunity in high school to be part of a cooperative work experience, uh, with the world's largest dental equipment manufacturer. So I worked, I worked in their engineering department, um, really as a drafts person, uh, um, junior, senior year in high school. And then that carried over into, after high school.

Um, I was not a, you know, there was a lot of, a lot of life things that, that kind of slowed me down from going to college. Um, my mom was recovering from some pretty harsh cancer and I wasn't really excited to, to leave her. My parents were recently divorced, like, you know, all these things kind of piled up to me staying, staying in my hometown for a year after high school.

And I continued to work, uh, in that engineering department. Kind of the, the, uh, path would've been to go into mechanical engineering from there. But I, I kind of looked around and I was like, I don't think this is, for me, I just, you know, I don't wanna just be kind of a cog and cog in the wheel, you know, cog in the machine.

Um, I wanted to have a, you know, more greater grasp, more of the whole scope of projects. Um, and that's, you know, bike, bike building allows you to do that.

[00:07:18]Randall Jacobs (host): Well, for, for better or for worse, in a lot of regards, especially in the beginning when you're trying to get off the ground,

[00:07:24]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:25]Randall Jacobs (host): it's the product, it's the business, it's the marketing. And which is really just another way of saying how do you communicate, how do you build awareness? How do you connect with people?

Um, So, so then, you know, walk us through kind of what, what that journey looks like.

[00:07:40]Brad Bingham: So, you know, it's, it's funny, I, uh, I, like I said, you know, A gentleman that I worked with, uh, who was a really good friend, uh, at the dental, Manu dental equipment manufacturer. Um, he ended up becoming, you know, years later he was director of engineering. Uh, this is a big major company, like 1200 employees on site, um, major manufacturing capabilities right there in my hometown, which is just outside of Portland, Oregon.

[00:08:12]Randall Jacobs (host): and what, um, what types of products

[00:08:15]Brad Bingham: oh, uh,

[00:08:16]Randall Jacobs (host): ha have I had your products in my mouth at some point?

[00:08:19]Brad Bingham: uh, maybe not in your, maybe not literally in your mouth, but, but potentially actually, yeah, you probably have like the, uh, you know, the little suction wand that, uh, goes in your mouth while you're at the dentist. Yeah. I mean, they

[00:08:32]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah.

[00:08:33]Brad Bingham: they even produced that. So the company was a.

[00:08:36]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay.

[00:08:37]Brad Bingham: You walk into, you walk, walk into certain dental offices, and you'll see that every single piece in that office, it's me, sorry, is uh, every single piece has adec on it.

Literally from the chair that you're sitting on to the cabinets, literally everything.

[00:09:00]Randall Jacobs (host): So what I'm hearing is here you are, this, this young kid in, in, in high school, just outta high school. You get this, this opportunity to work in a very large, uh, organization in with, you know, seasoned professionals doing, you know, medical products at a whole nother layer, um, of complexity in terms of design and development and supply chain and things like that.

And so you're dealing with that sort of thing. Um, and that was kind of your jumping off point.

[00:09:30]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. And I, um, I got into the bike building thing because my buddy that I, I rode with, I broke a couple of cannondale and he said, why don't you just make, why don't you just make your own?

[00:09:43]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:09:44]Brad Bingham: so of course I did. And it kind of spiraled, you know, I was in his garage late every single night machining something.

And, uh, you know, kind of once I built that first bike, it was a really great experience, but I was kind of like, well, what's, what's next in this? And then he said, why don't make one outta titanium? And, uh, so I went and took the United Bicycle Institute Titanium Frame Building course in 1996. Um, and it was taught by Gary Helfrich, uh, who is one of the, one of the founders of Merlin.

[00:10:21]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm.

[00:10:22]Brad Bingham: So, uh, yeah, through that process, moots got ahold of my name and. I got asked to come out to Colorado to interview for a welding position, and you know, as soon as they offered it to me, I took it. And kind of the, you know, the rest is, is history. And, you know, I did feel like that was a wonderful opportunity I got out here and I kind of initially thought to myself like, okay, I'll, I'll do a year out here, figure it out, and then I'll get back to Oregon and I'll start my own brand.

[00:10:59]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm.

[00:10:59]Brad Bingham: But I got out to Colorado and it's like, wow, I'm, I'm not gonna go home and build better bikes than this. And, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna go step, step away and just immediately be building better bikes. That's not gonna happen. Um, and I fell in love with, with Colorado and the, the stoke that people have here.

[00:11:24]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:11:24]Brad Bingham: So,

[00:11:25]Randall Jacobs (host): And what, what is it about, you know, what was it about working at Moots that was particularly special for you, and like, who were some of your mentors? You know, what, what'd you learn there?

[00:11:35]Brad Bingham: Well, it, it was a opportunity to work from the, the very bottom, you know, the very bottom to the very top kind of. And so I was able to experience, you know, every, every part of manufacturing while I was there, every, every part of manufacturing, a bicycle frame from titanium. Uh, so I started out welding, but pretty, I did that pretty solid for, uh, five years, five, six years, you know, tons and tons of welding.

But while at that time, Kent Erickson was still, um, employed by Moots, and so even in those first few years I was helping, you know, Kent never used a computer. I brought some CAD skills with me, and so pretty quickly I was involved in design work and any little part he wanted to get machined, you know, we needed to do a drawing and I was a drafts person so I could create an engineering, you know, a print, uh, that somebody could read and manufacture it really easily.

So, um, with a, with a lot of those skills that I brought, I was able to evolve at moots. You know, I, I look back on it and I think, oh, it, you know, happened pretty quick, but, but really it took a, took a number of years and by 2004, um, I was the production manager at Moots and managing, you know, the flow of the flow of products through the, through the factory.

And, um, at the time it was about, I think it was about 14 or 16 guys and gals that were making the bikes. So, um, You know, and then designing all the bikes after Kent left. Um, and I was, uh, designing tooling and, you know, as new specifications came out, we would incorporate those into the bikes and yeah, just making it all happen.

And then, uh, yeah, I finally, finally got tired of the, the high volume, you know, it just got, it got really, really big and I was, no, I was then just, like I said, kind of a cog in the machine. And, um, and then not long after my dad passed away, I kind of felt like it was time to make a change.

[00:14:09]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, that'll, that'll definitely catalyze some, some serious self-reflection for sure. Um, uh, I think in my case as well, when my, when my dad got sick, um, you know, he, he had a, in my dad's case, it was a, a brain tumor. So as a type that you usually don't, uh, get more than like 6, 8, 10 months from, um, and from then it was like, okay, I moved back, moved back home, um, and resolve like, okay, what are the things that I would like to have done if I were on my deathbed and that I would like to do and share with my father while he's still around and like, you know, shifted my whole life trajectory.

[00:14:51]Brad Bingham: Sure.

[00:14:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:14:52]Brad Bingham: Yeah.

[00:14:53]Randall Jacobs (host): So,

[00:14:54]Brad Bingham: I, yeah, I hope, did you get the, did you get the six or eight, 10 months with 'em?

[00:14:59]Randall Jacobs (host): uh, yeah, he, he lasted about eight months or so. He passed, uh, about 10, 10 days before his 50th and my 25th birthdays. We shared the same birthday. And, um, it was, I wanted to, I wanted to land a big account in the company I was working with. I wanted to, um, get into a good grad school, and I wanted to get my pro upgrade as a racer.

And I got two, two of the three before he passed. And then, uh, I had a, a good season, uh, later on, uh, the, the, the following year and, uh, was a, a Pac fodder pro for a hot minute.

[00:15:39]Brad Bingham: Gotcha.

[00:15:40]Randall Jacobs (host): again, like that, that reckoning of seeing, seeing a, you know, a parental figure and someone that I admired and learned a lot from, you know, I.

Towards the end of life, it maybe reflect a lot on, on what I wanna do with my own.

[00:15:52]Brad Bingham: Yeah.

[00:15:54]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah,

[00:15:54]Brad Bingham: Yeah. 50 is, 50 is way too young.

[00:15:58]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah.

[00:15:59]Brad Bingham: Way too young. I, my dad was 63 when he passed away,

[00:16:02]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm.

[00:16:03]Brad Bingham: felt way too young.

[00:16:06]Randall Jacobs (host): I think it is never a good age to lose a parent. Like it, it just brings with it different challenges. Like when, when you're a child, it, it's like you, you need that parental figure to help guide you through life when you're going through your, your twenties or so, you try to discover yourself and that guidance can be helpful if you're in your forties or fifties.

I haven't had that experience though. I will. Uh, my mother's still around and still healthy, but, you know, then it's like you're confronting your own mortality. Uh, so part, part of the cycle of life.

[00:16:36]Brad Bingham: Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

[00:16:40]Randall Jacobs (host): So, so your dad, your dad passes, you decide it's time. So what'd that process look like?

[00:16:48]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So, um, I chose to, yeah, I chose to leave the job I'd been in for 15 years and, um, you know, they were, moots was a, they were a little surprised by it because I had been there for so long and, um, you know, at the time I was, I was playing a pretty integral. Um, so I, I went to part-time for, you know, I gave them a healthy notice and went to part-time and then, you know, finally trailed off.

Um, and that was spring-ish of 2012, and I had no, I had no plans. I had bought a airstream, uh, to renovate, so I did a, like a shell off restoration on a 1973 Airstream and,

[00:17:44]Randall Jacobs (host): off renovation. So like you pulled the shell off the chassis. Sandblasted the chassis.

[00:17:51]Brad Bingham: exactly.

[00:17:52]Randall Jacobs (host): All right. This, this, we need, we need to do a tangent on this 'cause I, I also did a, um, uh, a camper build at one point. So tell me about this Airstream. I'm super curious.

[00:18:00]Brad Bingham: what, what was the camper you did?

[00:18:03]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, mine, mine, I built out of a 15 foot vno motorcycle trailer.

'cause I had a, I had a Honda Element, which is a four cylinder, um, boxy, little, little adventure mobile that I wanted to, you know, use as a, you know, I wanted to be able to tow around the country. So I built this ultra light, um, largely self-sustaining kind of off-grid trailer, you know, solar thin film, solar on the roof and water recycling for the toilet and all the other stuff.

And yeah, it was, it was an experience.

[00:18:34]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, mine was, uh, it was my brother-in-law's folks up in Montana. I was up in Montana in 2011 for, uh, like a, a US Cup mountain bike race,

[00:18:51]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:18:52]Brad Bingham: in, up in Missoula and,

[00:18:54]Randall Jacobs (host): What, what year is this?

[00:18:56]Brad Bingham: 2011.

[00:18:57]Randall Jacobs (host): 2011. Okay. So this is towards the tail end. I, I did the, the, um, when it was the Kenda Cup. I don't know if they were still sponsoring. It's like Show Air was a shipping logistics company that was sponsoring, this is like oh 8, 0 9, maybe 2010. So I think maybe the tail end.

[00:19:14]Brad Bingham: Yeah, that sounds right. I don't even know if Kenda and Sho were still involved. Like, I, I raced like the, um, like 2010 I think I was doing like the, like Sand Dimas and Fontana.

[00:19:28]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. I did those races.

[00:19:30]Brad Bingham: Yep. Did you do

[00:19:31]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. So, so, so you were a, uh, you were a private tier pro as well, or are we on a team or,

[00:19:36]Brad Bingham: Yeah, I was, you know, it was moots.

[00:19:39]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah.

[00:19:39]Brad Bingham: I was riding to Moots and just having, just having fun with it.

[00:19:44]Randall Jacobs (host): What, what years did you race? I wonder if we actually lined up next to each other

[00:19:48]Brad Bingham: well I raced, I raced pretty hard like nine, 10.

[00:19:56]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, same you do. Sea otter.

[00:19:59]Brad Bingham: Uh, oh gosh. I don't think I did sea otter until like 2016.

[00:20:06]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay.

[00:20:07]Brad Bingham: My, um, yeah, my, my pro mountain bike racing, it got, got sidetracked by two hip surgeries.

[00:20:19]Randall Jacobs (host): Oof.

[00:20:20]Brad Bingham: So I'm trying to remember how hard I went in 2011. I feel like. Oh, yeah, yeah,

[00:20:28]Randall Jacobs (host): I had, I had already retired by that

[00:20:30]Brad Bingham: yeah, yeah,

[00:20:30]Randall Jacobs (host): I was like, okay, I've got way too much student loan debt to be living outta my car, you know, spending money to be a professional athlete.

[00:20:40]Brad Bingham: yeah. So I had, um, my, my major injury, um, I tore the labrum, tore the labrum in my hip, um, which turns out was a, it was a genetic issue. Um,

[00:20:56]Randall Jacobs (host): Interesting. It's just weak in some way, or there's some sort of,

[00:20:59]Brad Bingham: of, shape of the femur.

[00:21:01]Randall Jacobs (host): okay. My sister did the same thing and she had had to have her shaved. Did you have the, the shaving surgery or did you tear it right through?

[00:21:08]Brad Bingham: The shaving. Yep. Same. Yep. So

[00:21:14]Randall Jacobs (host): same thing on the other side.

[00:21:15]Brad Bingham: correct both sides. Yep. I identical. So that ended up, um, the pain was pretty bad and kind of set me back in 2012. Um, and I prepped myself for surgery at the Steadman Clinic down in Vail, um, and had surgery in on the right leg or the right hip, uh, like February of 2013.

And then I had my left one done July of 2013. So 2013 was kind of a throwaway year and, you know, I don't mean that entirely. It was, it was a great year. But, um,

[00:21:58]Randall Jacobs (host): In in terms of competing at the highest level in athletics of any sort. Yeah. That, that makes sense.

[00:22:06]Brad Bingham: But then I came back, I came back really hard 2014 and like just once I had the go ahead and I was, I had a wonderful physical therapist and I was just getting after it hard.

And so at that time also I was working for Kent Erickson and he was like, you know, all about it. Like, yeah, go, go do it. Go go get it while you can, kind of. And uh,

[00:22:33]Randall Jacobs (host): not something you do in your forties unless you're, uh, or fifties. Unless you're what? Tinker or, um, uh, Ned. Ned

[00:22:42]Brad Bingham: I went like, so 2014 I kind of got myself back in, back in race shape and did things like Breck Epic, um, if you're familiar with that.

[00:22:54]Randall Jacobs (host): I am, I got some friends who are doing it this year. I hear it's phenomenal.

[00:22:57]Brad Bingham: And uh, yeah, did about a bunch of mountain biking and then I kept ramping it up until about, uh, 2017. So, yeah, it went pretty hard. 'cause my wife was, was racing cross country as well.

And so it was something we did together, you know, and I would throw in road races and then, and, and whatever.

[00:23:20]Randall Jacobs (host): I was gonna say that that makes a lot of sense that, uh, it was something you shared because otherwise, I mean, you're, you're on the road all the time and it's really hard to be on the road with like, as a, as a partner, be on the road with your partner who's out racing all the time and, you know,

[00:23:39]Brad Bingham: yeah,

[00:23:40]Randall Jacobs (host): camping at different places or, you know, subletting or, or doing whatever it takes, you know, sleeping on sofas, wherever.

[00:23:47]Brad Bingham: yeah, yeah. And, uh, like, so 2016, I turned 40 in the fall, so my goal was to do 40 races before I turned 40 that year.

[00:24:01]Randall Jacobs (host): Geez,

[00:24:03]Brad Bingham: So

[00:24:03]Randall Jacobs (host): that's, uh, that's impressive. I just turned 40 and I, I don't have a, I don't think I have a single race in me right now.

[00:24:10]Brad Bingham: Yeah, that's alright. That's alright.

[00:24:13]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:24:15]Brad Bingham: So, yeah. Anyways. Um, but all the way back to the Airstream. Yeah.

[00:24:20]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm.

[00:24:21]Brad Bingham: Fun project, you know, kind of kept me occupied. Um, as I le after I had left Moots. It, uh, definitely kept me occupied for a good few months

[00:24:33]Randall Jacobs (host): And did you tow that around, um, with your wife, train, you know, training and racing everywhere, or, or were we, you just living in it?

[00:24:40]Brad Bingham: it was a project. Like it took a, took a long time to get it even to where it is today, which is, I'd call it, I'd call it 90% done. I mean, it's, it's one of those things

[00:24:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay, good. Good enough where your motivation is, uh, less than.

[00:24:58]Brad Bingham: Yes, it's

[00:24:59]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:00]Brad Bingham: Yes. And, but I.

[00:25:03]Randall Jacobs (host): I think, I think that's part of the danger, the dangerous spot that I'm in. 'cause I, I also am like comfortable enough and I got other priorities, but gotta keep things moving along.

[00:25:12]Brad Bingham: yeah.

[00:25:13]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:25:15]Brad Bingham: So, yeah. But, uh, anyway, I didn't have any, I didn't have any plans to start, you know, to, I had no plans to be building bikes after I left Moots. I just wasn't, I just was like, I'm okay with taking some time and figuring out whatever the heck happens. And, uh, and then Ken Erickson, who had left Moots, uh, in 2005, he, he had been doing his thing for a while and he reached out and said, Hey, how about, how about you come back to me? And, uh, with the intention that you take over the business? So,

[00:25:53]Randall Jacobs (host): All right.

[00:25:55]Brad Bingham: so

[00:25:55]Randall Jacobs (host): Wait, so this is, this is his independent business?

[00:25:59]Brad Bingham: Correct. Yeah, he started Kent Erickson cycles about a year, a about a year, year and a half after he left Moots, so 2006. So, um, he'd been going for about yeah. Six, seven years.

[00:26:16]Randall Jacobs (host): And is he a few years your senior?

[00:26:19]Brad Bingham: Uh, yeah.

[00:26:20]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. So, so he is, he's been at it, he's been at a long time.

[00:26:26]Brad Bingham: Oh,

[00:26:26]Randall Jacobs (host): And when did the, how long did you work together before he started to kind of transition outta the business?

[00:26:33]Brad Bingham: Uh, so from, it would've been late, late 2012, um, until the late 2016. So four years that, uh, till we bought the business. And then, and then he was on board working for about 18 months afterwards.

[00:26:53]Randall Jacobs (host): wow.

[00:26:54]Brad Bingham: five and a half years. Yeah.

[00:26:55]Randall Jacobs (host): That's really cool. That's like quite, quite narc to have worked together in a different business. Have him leave and then have you kind of take on his thing and have him supporting you in that role. Uh, that sounds really beautiful.

[00:27:07]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. He and I, we have a, like, we have a good relationship. I don't spend very much time with him because he does tend to kind of hermit himself up on, on his property and he just, you know, he's, he has a beautiful piece of property up in the mountains and it's like, you know, his slice of heaven, like he doesn't need to go anywhere.

Um, but to see him some pretty much gotta go up there.

[00:27:33]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:35]Brad Bingham: um, but yeah, but our working relationship is super good. Like really loved. The time we worked together is very much a lot of back and forth and a lot of mutual respect. And, um, neither of us really got upset with like, criticisms, you know? I mean, we were just really open. So it was nice.

[00:28:00]Randall Jacobs (host): And you, you said, um, we bought the business and I, I know that I, I spoke together with my colleague, Sam, with your wife, um, initially before chatting with you. So, uh, you know, share a bit about, about her and, and how the two of you work together and so on.

[00:28:17]Brad Bingham: sure. And actually, I mean, I, I, I kind of misspoke because technically it's only myself that owns the business,

[00:28:26]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm.

[00:28:26]Brad Bingham: but we were together are together, um, in everything that we do there. So, um, it feels like, you know, it feels like we bought it.

[00:28:38]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:28:39]Brad Bingham: but yeah, so, um, so yeah, Hannah and I have been, uh, been together since 2010, like late 2010.

And, um, you know, just a, just a fun like athletic. You know, athletic based relationship because we, you know, she was a runner at the time we met, and I was kind of ki I was kind of like still enjoying some running, like I did my first mar marathon with her and, um, my first and only wait, I should, I should had that, um,

[00:29:17]Randall Jacobs (host): that's more, that's more than many cyclists. Many cyclists will do. Most cyclists, I don't even know. Uh, a lot of cyclists I know will joke that they don't know how to run. So doing a single marathon is, is not bad.

[00:29:30]Brad Bingham: So, so yeah, we had never, we had actually, you know, we'd never worked together. But with this idea of me taking over the business, um, I really wanted somebody there that I, that I could trust to run the books. I knew that that would take such a burden off of me.

[00:29:51]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm.

[00:29:52]Brad Bingham: um, so we, we agreed that, um, that that's how we would do it, and it's worked out really well.

Um, and yeah, yeah, she, she has a, she had been working in some other outdoor, um, some other outdoor companies that are located in Steamboat Springs. Um, she'd been doing bookkeeping and accounting for those companies, so she was, well, well versed and ready to take it on. Um, and

[00:30:23]Randall Jacobs (host): And, uh,

[00:30:24]Brad Bingham: mm-hmm.

[00:30:25]Randall Jacobs (host): oh, go ahead.

[00:30:26]Brad Bingham: Oh, and she also, like, she, you know, makes the website happen, makes the web store happen, keeps all the backend stuff going.

So

[00:30:35]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm.

[00:30:36]Brad Bingham: you know, it's a, it's a huge component to the business. Um, I'm sure

[00:30:41]Randall Jacobs (host): Oh yeah.

[00:30:41]Brad Bingham: as you know, um, it really allows me to draw some, to draw some lines of things that I work on and things that I don't work on.

[00:30:51]Randall Jacobs (host): I mean, it's, it's exhausting Otherwise, uh, you know, especially like early days when, when, if it's, if it's just one person or just two people and everyone's doing everything, uh, I mean, I, it works for some people, but it definitely constrained scale. And it also means that there's a lot of context switching from, you know, now I wanna focus on products, but you know, now I have to do a whole bunch of customer service emails and then, you know, I need to do some, some marketing outreach and, oh, you know, uh, have we paid that bill yet?

[00:31:24]Brad Bingham: Yep. Yep.

[00:31:25]Randall Jacobs (host): Uh,

[00:31:26]Brad Bingham: But, but, but we're tiny, you know, we're a tiny little operation, so

[00:31:31]Randall Jacobs (host): it, it's the two of you.

[00:31:33]Brad Bingham: it's the two of us and one employee.

[00:31:35]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay.

[00:31:37]Brad Bingham: Yep.

[00:31:37]Randall Jacobs (host): And, and what is your, uh, what's your other team member doing?

[00:31:41]Brad Bingham: So Ed, ed is our, our third man, and, uh, he's like, does all of the final, final assemblies. So, uh, you know, complete, complete build outs. Um, he is, uh, he's a veteran of the bike world. Uh, he used to own one of the bike shops here in downtown Steamboat. Uh, he's a certified motorcycle mechanic. Uh, um, so he's just, he's just awesome, super, super diverse.

So he builds, he builds all of my wheels, like I said, does the final assemblies. He kind of manages the, the web orders and ships product based on those incoming web orders. Um, and then, and then he's also in production. So he's, uh, does all the finish work on the frames. Uh, that's like bead blasting and polishing, you know, brushing what everything that kind of takes place after I weld it,

[00:32:46]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm.

[00:32:47]Brad Bingham: you will.

Um, and then

[00:32:49]Randall Jacobs (host): so you're doing the tube selection, mitering and all the upstream up there, is that right?

[00:32:55]Brad Bingham: correct. Yeah.

[00:32:56]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:32:57]Brad Bingham: Yep. And then he has, oh yeah, yeah, exactly. So he has some, uh, you know, some machining, some other machining roles as well. But those are like, it's, it's really funny just how they fall into the production process. 'cause like he, like I, it's like we always need something.

There's always something to be done,

[00:33:24]Randall Jacobs (host): So what's the, what's the process like? Like say, you know, one of our listeners, um, was looking to get a custom bike, uh, built with you. How does that, how does the communication work? How's, what's the, the process you take them through?

[00:33:37]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So typically they reach out, excuse me. Typically they reach out through the, the website and then the conversation starts. Um, we have a pretty basic. Kind of intake form, if you will, uh, fit form. And we start with that. Uh, that does have a lot of, uh, a lot of measurements that they can provide, uh, if I were to be creating the fit based on those measurements.

But what I am seeing more and more is that clients are coming with a fit, you know, most often a retool fit,

[00:34:14]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. Same.

[00:34:15]Brad Bingham: totally dialed. Yep. And so then the, depending on our workload, uh, you know, sometimes we have to delay, um, the conversation because I've just got too many clients currently that I'm working with,

[00:34:33]Randall Jacobs (host): It's a good, good problem to have.

[00:34:35]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. Generally it's a good problem. Yeah. So, um, but we start the conversation, you know, again, every, every client is a little bit different. Nothing. No scenario is exactly the same, but, um, most often we create a, create an estimate for the build out that they're looking for. Um, you know, if, if it's a complete build, of course they wanna see what that's gonna look like.

Um, so we provide, we provide estimates, uh, with no, um, you know, with no deposit, no, no obligation to purchase. Um, we want them to see, you know, where, how they're spending their money. Um, once they're satisfied that like the pro that things look good, um, then we take a deposit and then we really dive into the design work. Um, try to avoid putting in a lot of front end design work with no, um, you know, with no obligation. I.

[00:35:41]Randall Jacobs (host): Sure. And I mean, you can get, you can go pretty far in kind of teasing out high level, a high level understanding of what the rider needs. And also I. They can get a real sense of whether, you know, whether it's going to be the right match for them, you know, with those initial conversations. So that totally makes sense.

And then when you are, when you are looking at like, okay, so what are the different, walk us through like the different parameters of frame design for a particular rider. What, what are the, the different levers that you can pull? And then what information are you teasing out from the rider, either through that fit info or those conversations to, to determine, you know, how that bike gets created?

[00:36:20]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So I mean, you wanna, you wanna get kind of deep

[00:36:24]Randall Jacobs (host): Oh yeah. Let's go, let's go. Full nerd. Uh, so I, I think I shared with you previously, like I had, you know, did a two episode, uh, conversation with Craig Calie that was got into boron infused resin and like, you know, I think Josh Porter and I were talking about. The creation of CAD tools for modeling a spinning wheel.

Uh, so we, we can go as, we can go as nerdy as we like. So yeah, give give us, give us the full nerd version.

[00:36:52]Brad Bingham: Well, since we're on the gravel ride, um, you know, let's talk or let's talk a little bit around a gravel bike. Um, but when there's, you know, so for example, a lot of my clients do tend to be like, you know, their, their experience riders of a certain age, let's say. So a lot of those fits, you know, they, they are changing.

Um, so, you know, you really want to look at all of the parameters and, you know, weight bias, rear wheel, front wheel is a biggie. Uh, so you kinda identify that pretty, pretty quickly. You know, you can adjust that of course, by front center and stem length. I. Um, to achieve a weight bias that you're, that you're happy with.

But, you know, generally speaking, um, you want to, um, with those more upright positions, you know, you want to have increased trail, you want to have a longer front center. Um, you want, you know, if you're, because if you're gonna, if you're gonna have a short stem, you want higher trail.

[00:38:10]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, because you're effectively without all else equal on the trail side, you're speeding up the, the ratio of, of, uh, you know, less input for the same amount of output when you go with a shorter stem. Less stability. Yeah.

[00:38:26]Brad Bingham: Yeah. And, and then depending on, you know, what, what you've done with the, like chainstay length and the rear wheel weight bias, you know, that. Quickly lightens the front end. Um, so you got, you need to be, yeah, you need to be careful there. Um, so yeah, and it's like every rider is different.

If you're more aggressive and, you know, racy on the gravel bike, then yeah, you might be looking for a, um, you know, for a longer stem, more weight on the front contact, front contact patch, um,

[00:39:08]Randall Jacobs (host): Potentially less, less frontal area in a, in a more kind of, you know, locomotive type position for long flats and things like that as well.

[00:39:18]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:19]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:39:20]Brad Bingham: Absolutely. Um, you know, a lot of those things, a lot of those changes do end up being perception and not, not all that much reality. The, the frontal area. Yeah, it's huge,

[00:39:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:39:38]Brad Bingham: But wheel base doesn't, you know, if a shorter wheel base is gonna be perceived as quick, oh, this is fast, right?

But no, it's not, you're not going any faster because

[00:39:55]Randall Jacobs (host): Sure. Yeah. It's the, the sensation of speed and, and responsiveness, which, you know, another, the flip side of the same coin is twitchiness, right? Whether it's responsive or twitchy is depends on who you are and whether you've crossed the line from one to the other.

[00:40:11]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. So, but in the custom world, you know, in the custom world it's nice 'cause you have all of the levers to pull. You can do, you can do anything with it, which is, which is wonderful. Um, because I do see a lot of pretty odd or out of the norm cockpits and, and you really want to give them an experience.

You wanna create a bike underneath them that just feels right. Like, wow, this, this is comfortable. I mean, it's, you know, a longer wheel base on a gravel bike is really much more comfortable, uh, for the long haul. If you, you know, especially if you're an older rider, um, those, you know, the frequency of, of bumps, you know, washboards, you can, you can change that drastically, uh, with a slightly longer wheel base.

[00:41:05]Randall Jacobs (host): Tell me more about that. How does that actually work?

[00:41:07]Brad Bingham: Well, because you have the slacker head angle, which

[00:41:11]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm.

[00:41:12]Brad Bingham: inherently allows the fork to flex a little more.

[00:41:18]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay.

[00:41:18]Brad Bingham: Right? And then, and then the, the longer wheel base, you know, um, just geometrically it, it doesn't have to, the, the angle of change. Is lessened

[00:41:33]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay,

[00:41:34]Brad Bingham: as you go over, as you go over a rise or through a pothole, that that angle of change is, is lessened on a longer wheel base.

[00:41:43]Randall Jacobs (host): It hadn't occurred to me that, so you're saying like a degree of head tube angle change, all else equal, same fork, same tubes, and everything else will actually

[00:41:53]Brad Bingham: you'll feel that. Yeah. You'll feel that flex. Uh, that definitely.

[00:42:01]Randall Jacobs (host): Got it. 'cause I, I was thinking of it purely in terms of its effect on trail or like the caster effect to, to simplify it for those who don't know trail and um, uh, and you know, potentially the introduction of tire flop, which usually is in an issue on, you know, gravel bikes. 'cause the head tubes aren't slack enough. Yeah. Huh?

[00:42:22]Brad Bingham: yeah, there, there's that. There's also, you know, again, back to like slightly longer wheel base. Shorter stem. Shorter. I think there is some, some also, um, comfort gained by, um, how much weight is on the hands, what you feel through the, what you feel through the front. But that's really driven by the overall cockpit and the, the fit parameters, you know,

[00:42:49]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:42:50]Brad Bingham: so, but

[00:42:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Basically where that, those three points in space where the, uh, the angle of the hypotenuse between them.

[00:42:58]Brad Bingham: Yep. Yep.

[00:43:00]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:43:00]Brad Bingham: So, so, yeah. You know, they, it's pretty quick, uh, pretty quick to tell the difference in how, how smooth bikes are, um, with those pretty, pretty small dimensional changes. Um, but it's even, it's been difficult for me even in design where I go, oh wow. I don't, wow. I don't wanna change the front center by, by that much.

Like, oh, that's, That's 20 millimeters and then you have to remember, wait, it's 20 millimeters. It's nothing like,

[00:43:35]Randall Jacobs (host): Well, as a, as a percentage, if you're dealing with a bike that has a wheel base, use a round number of like a thousand, usually a large gravel bike could be a bit longer than that.

[00:43:44]Brad Bingham: Yeah.

[00:43:44]Randall Jacobs (host): You know, 20 millimeters, so 2%.

[00:43:48]Brad Bingham: Right.

[00:43:49]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:43:50]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. But it's

[00:43:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Though, in terms of, in terms of mass distribution over the two axles, it's gonna be bigger than that because it's relative to its distance to the the bottom bracket.

So the rear end is staying unless you change the rear end with it as well.

[00:44:04]Brad Bingham: sure, sure. And I, I think, I think oftentimes it is smart to adjust that rear center in a accordingly, um, because otherwise you will end up with, um, too much rear weight bias, you know,

[00:44:19]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:44:20]Brad Bingham: so.

[00:44:20]Randall Jacobs (host): Which, which can be, which can be fun if you like wheelies and for a certain type of riding,

[00:44:25]Brad Bingham: Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, like, you know, the bike, I'm like, the bike I'm riding right now is, uh, I think it's about a four, I think it's like a 4 27, uh, chain state. That's center to center. Not effect, not uh, horizontal, but

[00:44:44]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep.

[00:44:45]Brad Bingham: center to center. It's like a, like a 4

[00:44:48]Randall Jacobs (host): So horizontal, it's gonna be, you know, for 23 it's a pretty tight,

[00:44:53]Brad Bingham: Yeah, it's pretty.

[00:44:53]Randall Jacobs (host): uh, actually, no, not that much, but yeah, 4 24 or something like that.

[00:44:57]Brad Bingham: Yeah, actually I think it is less, um, because the drop is probably, I think the drop on my rig is like at least 73, 75 maybe I forget now. Um, but that's a pretty tight, tight rear. And then the front is like a, I think the, my current ride is like a 71.7 head angle with a 47 fork, you know,

[00:45:20]Randall Jacobs (host): How tall are you?

[00:45:21]Brad Bingham: uh, probably five, 10, maybe a sh

[00:45:25]Randall Jacobs (host): 10.

[00:45:26]Brad Bingham: yeah.

[00:45:26]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. So on a larger, medium, smaller, large, sort of, if you were to fall into a, a conventional bike?

[00:45:34]Brad Bingham: Yeah,

[00:45:36]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:45:37]Brad Bingham: And uh,

[00:45:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Just, just for context. 'cause then, 'cause then, you know, understanding like a, you know, an extra large rider is gonna be riding, uh, even if you scale that bike up, well you, you can't really, because the wheels don't scale.

[00:45:49]Brad Bingham: right,

[00:45:49]Randall Jacobs (host): so you have to adjust those, those angles and those lengths and stuff like that. Not just proportional, but also to account for the fact that the wheels are staying, uh, which, which I always thought was an interesting opportunity. Uh, you do see some brands that, um, uh, will, you know, restrict to like a six 50 B on their smallest sizes, for example.

Uh,

[00:46:09]Brad Bingham: You do see that a lot. Yeah.

[00:46:12]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. I, I, I think we should bring back 26 for those really small riders who wanna run two point fours, but I guess there's not enough of a market or a marketing, uh, uh, you know, edge to be gained from it, so.

[00:46:25]Brad Bingham: Yeah. I, I, I find that, uh, my more like, my more experienced clients that are, that are very small, they're, they're really looking for 700.

[00:46:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah.

[00:46:38]Brad Bingham: they're, they, they

[00:46:39]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, it's interesting. Same. And how much of that is, what do you think are the drivers of that? Is that, do you think it's actually better for the vast majority of those riders, or,

[00:46:52]Brad Bingham: I think that the, the, again, kind of back to that going, you know, actually going fast comfortably, like comfortably going fast, you're going to do that better on a 700 than on a six

[00:47:07]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, just rolling resistance attack angle, things like

[00:47:11]Brad Bingham: Yes. Yes, exactly.

[00:47:13]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. So,

[00:47:15]Brad Bingham: and we.

[00:47:16]Randall Jacobs (host): so worth the com worth the compromises on, maybe responsiveness or, or what have you. 'cause you're definitely giving up something there, even if you do proportional cranks.

[00:47:24]Brad Bingham: for sure. Yeah. But I, I think like there's, you know, you know how it is, there's a, the, the sharp end of a peloton they want, or, or the entire Peloton, they want responsiveness.

[00:47:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:38]Brad Bingham: but