The Good Fight

Between 2003 and 2007, 96% of participants in social psychology studies were Westerners, most of them undergraduates at American universities. As a result, much of what psychologists have come to believe about human nature is actually a description of a geographically and historically specific group: people who are western, educated, industrialized, rich and democratic ("WEIRD"). Joseph Henrich, a professor of human evolutionary biology at Harvard, has spent his career trying to change the parochial bias of social psychology. If we understand that WEIRD people are closer to the aberration than the norm, he argues, we can better understand the rise of the West, the rapid transformations now taking place from Asia to Africa, and the likely future of societies around the world. In this week’s episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk and Joseph Henrich sit down to discuss the peculiarities of WEIRD people; whether non-western societies are taking on some of the same characteristics as they develop economically; and how new technologies might disrupt traditional bonds between human beings. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There is a lot of bad advice going around these days. If something bad happened to you, define yourself by your trauma. And if somebody inadvertently did something offensive, react as though they had intended to harm you. Emily Yoffe, a member of Persuasion's Board of Advisors and a contributing writer at The Atlantic, has spent years giving thoughtful advice and chronicling the strange turn in our culture. One of the country's best writers and most fearless reporters, she knows better than just about anyone else how to skewer the growing self-righteousness in our intellectual discourse. In this week’s episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk and Emily Yoffe sit down to discuss the hallmarks of cancelation, why intent matters, and how we can recover our capacity to converse freely. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Trump's presidency, Brexit, and the mishandling of a global pandemic have made Douglas Alexander deeply concerned about the "powerful weaponization of nostalgia." As a former leader of the Scottish Labour Party, Alexander fears that a dissolution of old class identities will open the way to an even bigger attachment to tribal identities. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Douglas Alexander discuss the power of identity politics around the world, whether voters still believe in political competence, and how to bridge the "empathy gap" threatening democratic societies around the world. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We like to think the right argument could persuade our friend or uncle of our point of view. But what if our personality helps to determine how we see the world? Dr. John Hibbing, a professor of political science at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, believes that psychology, rather than culture or economic circumstances, explains much of our politics. In this week’s episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk and John Hibbing sit down to discuss the drivers of our political beliefs, why a longing for cultural security helps to explain the rise of Trumpism, and how to get on with those who are wired differently from us. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Connect with us! Spotify Apple Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What transforms reasonable people into an angry mob? Why are we so eager to dismiss those who disagree with us as inherently evil? These are questions which Jonathan Haidt has spent his career trying to answer. One of the world’s most influential social psychologists and a member of Persuasion's Board of Advisors, he argues that a lot of recent cultural shifts are encouraging emotional fragility rather than resilience. A professor of ethical leadership at NYU's Stern School of Business, Haidt seeks to employ moral psychology to promote dialogue rather than division. In this week’s episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk sits down with Jonathan Haidt to discuss psychological differences between the left and the right, the human tendency to discriminate in favor of the in-group, and how to build a less tribal culture and country. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Commentators often think that the threat to democracy comes from those who feel left behind - the ones who feel voiceless and vote accordingly. But what if the rise of populism was provoked, in part, by the growth of "a new managerial class" that rules the key institutions of society in its own favor? That is what Michael Lind, a co-founder of New America and a professor at the University of Texas at Austin, argues in his latest book, The New Class War. In this week’s episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk and Michael Lind debate the dangers posed by the new managerial class, what kind of structural changes would be needed to contain populism, and the prospects for real change. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We often hear the phrase “Twitter isn’t real life” as a reminder to take online spats with a pinch of salt. But with the U.S. Capitol riot, we’ve been painfully reminded of social media's power. There’s few better people to understand how we got here than tech journalist Kara Swisher. A New York Times columnist and podcaster, Swisher has charted the rise of the internet since 1994, challenging the claims of Silicon Valley's biggest names while warning the public of big tech's ever-growing power. As both the ultimate insider and one of big tech's most perceptive critics, she's been named among the "most feared and well-liked journalists" in Silicon Valley. In this week’s episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk and Kara Swisher discuss what regulations for big tech look like in practice, the role of social media in populist politics, and whether online vitriol is an accurate reflection of public opinion. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Steven Pinker dares to believe that human beings are better off than ever before in human history. A world-renowned linguist, Pinker has dedicated his career to unveiling the ways by which we express our human nature through our language, behaviors, and beliefs. In an era often plagued by fatalism, Pinker maintains a radical and unwavering dedication to his belief in humanity's steady improvement. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Steven Pinker sit down to discuss why we need to look to "nature" as well as "nurture" to understand the human condition, how to build institutions untainted by human biases, and whether human beings are inherently irrational. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A proud Never Trumper and a founding editor at The Dispatch, Jonah Goldberg believes that capitalism and liberal democracy have long been the foundations of America's success. But as the country fractures, Goldberg fears we’re throwing all that away - and threatening to crash American democracy itself. In this week’s episode, Yascha Mounk and Jonah Goldberg sit down to discuss the meaning of the assault on the U.S. Capitol, the future of the GOP, and whether to impeach Donald Trump. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Born and raised on the South Side of Chicago, Glenn Loury became Harvard's first black tenured professor of economics at 33. Now, he’s one of the country’s most irreverent thinkers on racial inequality--often challenging an emerging consensus on the nature and causes of structural racism. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Glenn Loury discuss the nature of racism, how much progress America has (or hasn't) made over the past fifty years, and what a just society would look like. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why is it OK to discriminate on grounds of intelligence? That might seem like an odd question. But for writer and academic Fredrik deBoer, it’s one we can't ignore. His new book, The Cult of the Smart, argues that we’ve created an educational system that incessantly rewards the good luck of innate intelligence—while condemning the less clever to failure. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Fredrik deBoer discuss America’s broken schools, debate the damage of overvaluing academic ability, and ask what sort of education system we need for a truly just society. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As it recovers from Covid more quickly than other nations, China appears to be stronger than ever. But the world’s next superpower faces enormous challenges of its own. Minxin Pei, a professor at Claremont McKenna College and one of the world’s leading China experts, has spent years writing about them. Behind the country's façade of invincibility, he argues, lies “a Leninist state in an advanced stage of decay”. In this week's conversation,Yascha Mounk and Minxin Pei trace the country's political evolution since the 1980s and debate whether Xi Jinping is cementing the party's power--or may unwittingly be seeding the roots of its own demise. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In times of crisis, it’s easy to wish for the good old days. Rutger Bregman wants us to look to the future instead. One of Europe’s leading young thinkers, Bregman's unapologetic calls for higher taxes at the Davos World Economic Forum in 2019 made him an overnight internet sensation. As a self-confessed utopian, he now wants us to think big – and that means planning for 15 hour workweeks, open borders and a universal basic income. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Rutger Bregman discuss human nature; its implications for contemporary politics; and the policies which we need to create a more human-centric world. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With Trump gone it’s tempting to think that America’s foreign policy can return to normality – no more praise of Putin, no more maligning of allies. But as Thomas Wright makes clear, restoring America’s place in the world will be far from plain sailing. As Director of The Brookings Institution’s Center on the United States and Europe, Wright’s access to the incoming administration has afforded him a unique understanding of the challenges it will face. His view that Biden’s presidency may be “the last best chance to demonstrate that liberal internationalism is a superior strategy to populist nationalism” serves as a vivid reminder that post-Trump, the stakes remain higher than ever. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Thomas Wright brainstorm practical ways to prevent further democratic backsliding, why the public must understand the connection between domestic and foreign relations, and how much the Biden administration can actually achieve in the fight against dictatorships around the world. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Most people believe that the candidates they like best are also most likely to win. If you are far left, you are likely to think that far left candidates are also most likely to beat their opponents. If you are moderate, you are likely to think that moderate candidates are most likely to beat their opponents. David Shor is the rare exception: a self-described democratic socialist, he believes that the Democratic Party needs to moderate its rhetoric and abandon some of its policies to win the majorities it needs to pass ambitious legislation. Long known to insiders as one of America’s most acute public opinion analysts, Shor first rose to public prominence when he was fired from his job at Civis Analytics after tweeting a study by Princeton professor Omar Wasow (a member of Persuasion’s Board of Advisors) according to which violent protests in the 1960s helped to propel Richard Nixon to victory in the 1968 presidential elections. In this week's episode, Yascha Mounk and David Shor discuss why the polls keep getting it wrong, why the left's dream of winning by mobilizing progressive voters is unrealistic, and how Democrats need to change to have a chance of building congressional majorities. . Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Caroline Fourest is one of France’s leading thinkers on issues of secularism and religious extremism. A writer for Charlie Hebdo from 2004 to 2009, Fourest was at the forefront of defending the magazine after many of its journalists were murdered in a brutal terrorist attack in 2015. An acclaimed feminist author and director, her works have often made an impassioned case for free expression in the face of intimidation and censorship. In this week's episode, Yascha Mounk and Caroline Fourest discuss the principles and the practice of laïcité, misconceptions of it in the United States, and her concerns over a culture of outrage that, she claims, "invades our privacy, assigns our identities, and censors our democratic exchanges." Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wesley Yang is one of the America’s leading essayists. From “Paper Tigers,” his examination of why Asian-Americans remain underrepresented in leaderships positions, to “The Face of Seung-Hui Cho,” his meditation on the shooter who killed 33 people at Virginia Tech, he has traced America’s shifting understanding of race. But over the past years, the focus of Yang’s work has subtly shifted. He is now trying to chronicle and explain what he calls the “successor ideology,” the constellation of ideas that seek to usurp liberalism, and which others have called by such names as “wokeness” or “social justice.” In the latest episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk and Wesley Yang discuss the precise definition of the successor ideology; the need for genuine empathy when exchanging ideas; and what forms of cultural sensitivity are truly inclusive as opposed to alienating Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’d like to think of our societies as places with a lot of social mobility, in which individuals can climb the ladder by working hard. But by tracking families with rare surnames across the centuries, Gregory Clark, an economist, has shown that social mobility is much rarer than we’d like to think. The descendants of 14th century Florentine aristocrats, 18th century Korean civil servants and 19th century Swedish notables, research Clark conducted or inspired has shown, are much more likely to work in prestigious professions or own a lot of money in the 21st century. Why could that be? In the latest episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk talks to Gregory Clark about the limits of social mobility; why some families succeed while others fail; and what implications that should have for social and economic policy. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For the past years, we have paid a lot of attention to the fight for democratic values in countries where they are newly under threat. But what can activists do to stand up for democracy in countries where they already have to fear imprisonment, or worse? In the latest episode of The Good Fight, we feature the voices of activists from Asia and Europe. First, Yascha Mounk talks to Andrei Sannikov about the ongoing protests against Alexander Lukashenko. Then, he talks to Nathan Law about the new security law imposed by mainland China, and the impact it is having on young democracy activists. What strategies can help activists advance their goals even when they face very steep odds? Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zion Lights has long been an environmentalist activist. When Extinction Rebellion was founded two years ago, she became one of its informal leaders, organizing highly disruptive events and representing the organization in the media. But over time, she came to doubt both its strategy and its policy commitments. Did disrupting public transport really help to persuade the public of the urgency of fighting climate change? And shouldn’t environmentalists who deeply care about climate change embrace nuclear energy? In the latest episode of The Good Fight, Zion Lights and Yascha Mounk debate the best way to reduce carbon emissions; how activists can (and can’t) persuade the public; and what it is like to change your mind about an issue when your peers are outraged by the conclusion you have come to. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

According to Ian Bremmer, the President of the Eurasia Group, the global pandemic is revealing the extent to which democracies have been failing over the past years. To strengthen them, he proposes that they should re-establish faith in the system by regulating social media, shifting away from American exceptionalism, and embracing an innovative approach to capitalism. In this conversation, Ian Bremmer and Yascha Mounk debate how different political systems have dealt with COVID-19, how capitalism has fared amidst the pandemic, and what western democracies need to do to live up to their promises. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lawrence Wright has been friends with Jamal Khashoggi for nearly two decades. In a new documentary, The Kingdom of Silence, he tells the complicated story of America’s relationship with Saudi Arabia through the lens of Khashoggi’s life—from his youthful enthusiasm for jihadis to his years serving the Saudi royal family and his eventual embrace of the Arab Spring. On the latest episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk and Lawrence Wright, a winner of the Pulitzer Prize and staff writer at the New Yorker, talk about why the United States and Saudi Arabia have maintained an uneasy partnership for so many years, and how a new U.S. administration should deal with the Saudi royal family. The podcast also discusses Wright’s prescient thriller about a global pandemic and his groundbreaking reporting on scientology. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For much of the past four years, Matt Yglesias dismissed worries about growing illiberalism on the left as a campus fad that is sure to fade. This year, he changed his mind, becoming increasingly vocal about his concerns, and co-signing the Harper’s letter. On the latest episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk and Matthew Yglesias talk about how and why he changed his mind. The podcast also discusses Matt’s latest book, One Billion Americans. The best way to ensure that liberal values continue to exercise real influence in the world, he argues, is to make sure that the United States remain the world’s most powerful nation. That’s why politicians need to put the policies in place that allow Americans to have more kids, and open the country’s borders to many more immigrants. Listen to Yascha and Matt discuss whether that really is the right goal—and, if so, how it can be achieved. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Irshad Manji has a lot of experience in trying to persuade those who really don’t want to be persuaded. Early in her career, Irshad wrote two influential books that advocated for a reformed Islam. In conversations with religious conservatives around the world, she found that a combative style did not help her win adherents for her cause; instead, she started to acknowledge their views—before proudly arguing for her own. Now, Irshad runs the Moral Courage project, a pedagogical approach that hopes to make progress on contested issues like racism without shaming its participants. On the latest episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk talks to Irshad about why we should not judge those who disagree with us; how we can hope to persuade them of our own positions; and why we should be more optimistic about America’s future than is now fashionable. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. A few weeks ago, I got an email from somebody I admire tremendously: Elizabeth Anderson, one of the most interesting contemporary political philosophers. Anderson, she wrote, has long been an avid listener to The Good Fight. But she strongly disagrees with the episode I did with Edward Irizarry, in part because she thought that my characterization of Robin diAngelo’s work was overly dismissive. So we decided to have an on-air conversation about the question. In this conversation, we discuss the merits of contemporary anti-racism. But we also talk about whether we should aim for the ideal of colorblindness, how to build a more integrated society, and what philosophical liberals can do to stand up to the threat of right-wing populism. Please do listen, and spread the word about The Good Fight. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael Sandel, one of the most influential political philosophers of our time, makes a provocative argument: Meritocracy allows successful people to feel good about themselves, and doesn’t do anything to address the plight of those who are less fortunate. It is time to abandon the ideal. In this conversation about Sandel’s new book, The Tyranny of Merit: What’s Become of the Common Good?, I debate these themes with him. Should we really throw the pursuit of meritocracy on the trash heap of history? Or would it be better to ensure that our society actually lives up to the meritocratic ideal (while ensuring that everyone can have a decent life)? Please do take the time to listen to our conversation. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. For the past years, Frank Dobbin, a Professor of Sociology at Harvard University, has been researching diversity initiatives at big corporations and academic institutions. He has consistently come to the same, sobering conclusion: They don’t tend to work. And in many cases, they actually backfire. In this nuts-and-bolts conversation with Yascha Mounk, Dobbin explains why diversity programs so often fail: Especially if they are mandatory, they tend to portray decision-makers as part of the problem, and to threaten them with adverse consequences if they do something wrong. Instead, he suggests, diversity programs should invite decision-makers to become active advocates for change by making initiatives voluntary and empowering managers to make their own decisions about how to recruit more members of underrepresented groups. Please do take the time to listen to our conversation. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Please sign up to become a member of Persuasion, the new community Yascha has founded for those who believe that a free society is worth fighting for. Just go to www.persuasion.community A few days ago, a rather strange exchange caught my attention on Twitter. At a public meeting of a local New York City school board, one member accused another of perpetrating racism by holding his girlfriend’s nephew. “It hurts people when they see a white man bouncing a brown baby on their lap,” she said. Asked for an explanation as to how this might be racist, she suggested that the man “read a book. Read White Fragility.” When I delved deeper into this strange story, I discovered that another member of the board had spoken up against this twisted view of the world with lucid rage; to be honest, it was one of the most compelling speeches I have heard in months. Edward Irizzary is, himself, a product of the New York City public school system. He grew up under difficult circumstances, and joined the local board of education to fight for students just like him. In conversation with me, he explains why the ideas of people like Robin diAngelo, or reforms that are focused on what he calls “cosmetic diversity,” make it harder to improve a deeply flawed educational system. Please do take the time to listen to our conversation. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha is starting a new platform for citizens who are committed to the defense of a free society. Please go to http://www.persuasion.community to sign up. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk speaks with Thomas Rid, Professor of Strategic Studies at John Hopkins University SAIS about the operations of secret services around the world and the misinformation campaigns that shape international competition. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Omar Wasow, a professor of political science at Princeton University, about the case for non-violent protest, and how best to bring about greater racial equality in the United States. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Francis Fukuyama about the changes that COVID-19 will (and will not) bring about. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Ron Daniels, President of Johns Hopkins University, about the impact the coronavirus will have on higher eduction and the role universities can play in defending liberal democracy against the rise of populism. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Sarah Longwell, the Publisher of The Bulwark, about how to persuade those who have voted for populists in the past to change their minds. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to David Miliband, the CEO of the International Rescue Committee, about the world after corona and what we need to do right now to help the poorest countries in the world manage the pandemic. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk speaks to Daniel Ziblatt, the Eaton Professor at Harvard University, about the impact of the coronavirus on populism and democracy. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Constanze Stelzenmüller, Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution, about the rise of populism in Germany and how it will transform the country in the next years. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Ruy Teixeira, a Senior Fellow at CAP, about his much misunderstood theory according to which demographic change will favor the Democratic Party. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to E. J. Dionne, author of Code Red, about what it would take to unify the Democratic Party (and beat Donald Trump). Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Ezra Klein about the nature and causes of polarization in the United States - and whether we can fix it. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: https://www.yaschamounk.com/ Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Pratap Bhanu Mehta, one of India's foremost writers and intellectuals, about the rise of Narendra Modi, and the reasons for the crisis of liberal democracy in the country. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk speaks to Peter Hall, Krupp Foundation Professor of European Studies at Harvard University, about the close connection between declining social status and the rise of populism. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Sam Koppelman, co-author of Impeach: The Case Against Donald Trump, about the nature of impeachment, the arguments for and against removing Donald Trump from office, and what Democrats need to do to win in 2020. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Rachel Brown, Executive Director of Over Zero, about the roots of political violence; whether the United States stand at the brink of civil war; and what interventions can stop violence from breaking out in deeply polarized societies. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Martin Gurri, author of The Revolt of the Public, about the way digital technology empowers the insurgent public, and how it will transform the politics of both democracies and autocracies. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to political scientist Dan Kelemen about the trilemma facing Boris Johnson on Brexit, the drift towards autocracy in Poland and Hungary, and why membership in the European Union may make it easier for aspiring dictators to undermine democracy. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Peter Pomerantsev the author of This is Not Propaganda, about the way in which the rise of digital technology is transforming our politics; how trolls and state agents are trying to spread propaganda; and how to build a more democratic internet. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to James Robinson, co-author of Why Nations Fail and The Narrow Corridor, about the importance of political institutions; the roots of freedom and prosperity; and how citizens can beat the historical odds to improve their countries. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to Helen Lewis, a staff writer at The Atlantic, about Boris Johnson, the future of Brexit, and why feminists should defend liberal democracy. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk talks to David Frum about the evolution of conservatism, health care. immigration, and how to beat Donald Trump. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices