The Fried Egg Golf Podcast

Given the turmoil that has dominated men’s professional golf this year, a Rory McIlroy victory in the Open Championship at St. Andrews would have been a storybook ending to the major season. Well, too bad. Cameron Smith, as he reminded us in the process of dismantling the Old Course on Sunday, is really, really good at golf. To break down all of the action as well as the deeper storylines, Garrett Morrison speaks with Jamie Weir (@jamiecweir), golf correspondent for Sky Sports; Joseph LaMagna (@JosephLaMagna), the analytical mind behind the Finding the Edge newsletter; and The Fried Egg’s own Andy Johnson, who was on site all week in St. Andrews.

How did the Old Course at St. Andrews become what it is today? Garrett Morrison takes a break from the action at the 150th Open Championship to chat with historian Bob Crosby (@otey71) about how golf’s most famous and influential course changed—in surprisingly radical ways—during the second half of the 19th century and the first decade of the 20th. This evolution, Bob argues, has a lot to teach us about the nature of strategic course design. It also accounts for why the Old Course continues to fascinate us today.

The 150th Open Championship is almost here, so Michael Clayton (@mikeclaytongolf) joins Andy Johnson to run through five storylines to watch for this week. Tiger, Rory, and the biggest star of week, St. Andrews, are all covered. Michael also discusses which fellow Australians he hopes to see in contention and tells some stories about his experiences playing in three Opens at the Old Course. There's also some LIV chatter, but only a few minutes' worth... promise!

Andy Johnson will take his maiden voyage to St. Andrews for next week's Open Championship. To prepare, he talks with a series of guests about their first visits to the Old Course. Tom Doak, James Duncan, Shane Bacon (@shanebacon), Michael Clayton (@mikeclaytongolf), Gil Hanse, and Zac Blair (@z_blair) all talk with Andy about their first impressions, what surprised them, and what they took away from their first trip to the Home of Golf. Time stamps: (3:15) Tom Doak (7:02) James Duncan (10:31) Shane Bacon (17:19) Michael Clayton (24:04) Zac Blair (29:10) Gil Hanse

This past weekend, the second event of the Saudi-backed LIV Golf Invitational series was staged at Pumpkin Ridge Golf Club outside of Portland, Oregon. The Fried Egg's own Garrett Morrison was on site, and he joins Andy Johnson to reflect on what he saw. Garrett and Andy talk about the shotgun start, the team format, player attitudes, and a variety of other topics. They also make some projections about the futures of both LIV and the PGA Tour. Warning: if you'd rather not see men's professional golf be taken over by an autocracy's reputation-laundering scheme, things are starting to look a little grim. Read "Smashing Pumpkin," Garrett's story about the battle that broke out within Pumpkin Ridge's membership when the LIV Portland event was announced in March.

With the 150th edition of the Open kicking off at the Old Course in a little less than two weeks, Tom Doak and Andy Johnson devote an entire episode to St. Andrews. Tom has gotten to know the course deeply over multiple decades, so he has a lot of thoughts on what first-time visitors should do and what makes the Old Course one of a kind. The bunkers, the reverse routing, and the evolution of the course are all discussed in depth. We hope this gets you excited for the final men's major of the year!

In the latest installment of the Yolk with Doak, golf architect Tom Doak covers a wide range of topics with Andy Johnson. First, they spend some time examining Saudi Arabia's role in golf outside of the LIV tour, namely the kingdom's massive investment in golf course construction. Tom also provides updates on his current activities, which include the recently announced second course at Cabot Highlands, formerly known as Castle Stuart. Finally, Tom and Andy run through listener questions about the playability trend in design, changes to Tom's early projects, and the delicate balance that's required when imitating another architect's work. Look for part two of this conversation, which will focus on St. Andrews, this coming Friday.

With the KPMG Women's PGA Championship underway, Andy Johnson welcomes Pete Wendt (@PeteWendtCCC) to the latest edition of our Superintendent Series. Pete is the Director of Golf Courses and Grounds at Congressional Country Club, which is hosting the third women's major of the year this week. The Blue Course will be showing off its new look after an extensive renovation by Andrew Green that was completed last year. Pete talks about how Green's vision became reality and which aspects of the course he's most excited to see in action at the Women's PGA. Pete and Andy also cover other topics, ranging from Pete's schedule this week to how technology might be able to ease the industry's labor shortage. The Superintendent Series is brought to you by the Toro Company.

The 2022 U.S. Open at The Country Club in Brookline was an instant classic. It had all the key ingredients: a great course, a tough setup, a variety of big names in contention, a dramatic final-round duel, and a champion who sealed victory with an extraordinary shot on the 72nd hole. To discuss all of this and more, Garrett Morrison talks with four guests. First up is Nick Hardy (@NickHardy8), an up-and-coming tour pro who, at one point on Sunday afternoon, found himself two shots off the lead. Garrett then touches base with Paolo Uggetti (@PaoloUggetti), a staff writer at ESPN.com; Ryan Barath (@RDSBarath), a senior equipment editor at Golf.com; and Bradley Klein (@BradleySKlein), a journalist and golf architecture historian.

The late 1800s saw the invention of an important institution: the American country club. This week’s U.S. Open venue, The Country Club in Brookline, was the first—or at least one of the first. By the beginning of the 20th century, most major cities east of Chicago had several golf-focused clubs. What were the reasons for this proliferation? And what can we learn from the origins of country-club life in America? To get some answers, Garrett Morrison talks to Richard J. (“Pete”) Moss, a retired history professor and the author of the excellent Golf and the American Country Club.

It's U.S. Open week! To give a preview of the action, Andy Johnson sits down with Tron Carter (@TronCarterNLU) and runs through five things they'll be watching for at The Country Club in Brookline. They touch on the virtues of the host city, the challenges of the course, the players who might be best prepared to take on TCC's small greens and heavy rough, the potential activities of Team Reed, and the long shadow cast by the insurgent LIV league. The Fried Egg and No Laying Up have team members on site in Boston this week, so there will be plenty of #content to consume. For some visuals of the course, check out our preview video as well as NLU's.

This episode concludes our series “The Open Doctor and His Monster,” which chronicles the origins, rise, and end of the Robert Trent Jones era in golf. Today, we tell the story of the movement that challenged Jones’s ideas and revived the reputations of Donald Ross and other golf architects of the “Golden Age.” Ultimately, this movement led to a battle of ideas at Oakland Hills Country Club, where Jones had initially established his reputation as the “Open Doctor” in 1950. Our guests in this episode are Richard Howting, Bradley Klein (@BradleySKlein), Gil Hanse, and Robert Trent Jones Jr. Further reading: Bradley Klein, Discovering Donald Ross Geoffrey Cornish and Ron Whitten, The Golf Course

In this second installment of our documentary series “The Open Doctor and His Monster,” we focus on the 1951 U.S. Open, in which Ben Hogan did battle with Robert Trent Jones’s modern architecture at Oakland Hills Country Club. Our guests in this episode are Ed Gruver (@EdGruver), Richard Howting, James Hansen, Robert Trent Jones Jr., and Bradley Klein (@BradleySKlein). Further reading: Ed Gruver, Bringing the Monster to Its Knees: Ben Hogan, Oakland Hills, and the 1951 U.S. Open Richard Howting, “Defining Moment: The 1951 U.S. Open” Bradley Klein, “Forever in Tweed, Amen: Herbert Warren Wind’s contributions to golf know no word count” in The Golfer’s Journal No. 13

Today, we kick off a three-part documentary series called “The Open Doctor and His Monster,” in which we chronicle the Robert Trent Jones era in golf: its origins in Rochester, New York; its breakthrough moment at Oakland Hills Country Club; and its recent fall from favor. In this first installment, we tell the story of how Robert Trent Jones rose from a blue-collar background to the status of “Open Doctor”—and how, in the process, he came up with ideas that would dominate golf course design for decades. Our guests in this episode are Robert Trent Jones Jr., James Hansen, Richard Howting, and Bradley Klein (@BradleySKlein). Further reading: James Hansen, A Difficult Par: Robert Trent Jones Sr. and the Making of Modern Golf Bradley Klein, Discovering Donald Ross: The Architect and His Golf Courses

Golf architect Kyle Franz (@KyleFranzGolf) returns to the podcast to share his wealth of knowledge of Pine Needles, the site of the ongoing 2022 U.S. Women's Open. Kyle carried out a restoration of the Donald Ross course in 2017 and is on the grounds at Pine Needles this week. He chats with Andy Johnson about holes to watch for and what he learned from following Ingrid Lindblad and Annika Sörenstam during Thursday's first round. On the back half of the episode, Kyle provides an update on the busy summer he has ahead of him, which will include projects at Lookout Mountain and Cabot Citrus Farms.

With the U.S. Open a little over two weeks away, we are well into the "from many, one" process. The 2022 edition will be held at The Country Club in Brookline, Massachusetts, for the first time since 1988.* Andy Johnson and Garrett Morrison talk about the deep history of professional golf at the course, the maze that is the championship routing, and the USGA’s planned setup. Gil Hanse stops by (26:45) to share insights from more than a decade of working at The Country Club, then Andy and Garrett wrap up with some holes to keep an eye on and a few critiques of the course’s weaknesses. * A number of times in this pod, we mistakenly refer to the 1988 U.S. Open as the 1989 U.S. Open. TFE regrets the error.

The final two days of the 2022 PGA Championship were generally a bit of a slog. The big names were going in the wrong direction, and the rest of the leaderboard wasn't producing much excitement. But then the final hour gave us Justin Thomas's playoff win, and all was forgiven. To recap the storylines of what ended up being a fun week, Garrett Morrison talks with three guests: Brendan Quinn (@BFQuinn), sportswriter for The Athletic; The Fried Egg's own Andy Johnson; and Stephen Britton (@sbrittonturf), golf course superintendent at the Chevy Chase Club. Time stamps: (3:28) Brendan Quinn (28:44) Andy Johnson (54:30) Stephen Britton

After a day of walking around Southern Hills Country Club and watching the first round of the PGA Championship, Garrett Morrison and Meg Adkins convene in the media center (right next to KVV as he did a guest spot on The Shotgun Start!) to discuss it all. Garrett and Meg offer observations on the tournament, the course, and the fans, and they wrap up with a few things they'll be watching for over the weekend.

It's PGA Championship week! ESPN.com's Kevin Van Valkenburg (@kvanvalkenburg), who will be on site at Southern Hills, talks with Andy Johnson about all the major storylines heading into the second men's major of the year. From the challenges of the Perry Maxwell design to the players they think have the best chance to succeed, Andy and Kevin dive deep into all things PGA, including some suggested requirements for the club pros in the field this week. Note: This podcast was recorded before it was announced that Phil Mickelson had withdrawn from the PGA Championship.

It's Flashback Friday: Fried Egg Edition! With the 2022 PGA Championship next week, Andy Johnson and Brendan Porath join Garrett Morrison to look back Phil Mickelson's victory last year at the Ocean Course. Andy and Brendan were on site at Kiawah Island all week. They reminisce about the lead-up to the event, the excitement around the venue, and the wild Sunday finish, which included a broadcast appearance by Andy himself. The group also reflects on what's transpired for Phil since his win and how the events of the past 12 months have colored their recollections of that historic week.

Today's guest on our Superintendent Series is Tyler Marcotte, the Head Superintendent at Brambles in Middletown, California. Tyler has one of the more interesting jobs in turf right now. He is currently overseeing the grow-in at Brambles, a new Coore & Crenshaw design just north of Napa Valley, and he has some unique co-workers: sheep! He shares details with Andy Johnson on how he plans to use sheep instead of mowers and what long-term benefits he hopes the sheep will bring. Tyler also provides an update on the grow-in and explains how his experiences working all over the country have aided him at Brambles. The Superintendent Series is brought to you by the Toro Company.

With our fourth deep dive into the five 18-hole courses at Bandon Dunes, we arrive at Tom Doak’s Pacific Dunes, which opened in 2001. Andy Johnson and Garrett Morrison discuss the course’s intricate strategic puzzles; its use of the “sandy bowl,” the “gorse plain,” and a spectacular stretch of cliff-side land; its collection of short par 4s; and the way that Pacific Dunes, more than any other course at the resort, demands smart, precise golf. Tom Doak himself makes a cameo (16:30) to tell the story of how he discovered the portion of the property that would become the famous 13th hole. The Bandon Deep Dives are brought to you by Zero Restriction.

Golf's accessibility problem isn't new, and fixing it won't happen overnight. Golf architect Christine Fraser (@cfgolfdesign) knows this, but she also believes that good course design can chip away at the issue. She talks with Garrett Morrison about how tee positions, fairway lines, maintenance practices, and even entrances into golf facilities can all be designed to encourage an inclusive culture. Christine has worked on courses all over the world, including Lahinch, Royal Birkdale, and the Toronto Golf Club, and as one of the few women in golf architecture, she offers a fresh and important perspective.

The 2022 PGA Championship, which starts in three weeks, will be held at Southern Hills Country Club, a 1936 Perry Maxwell masterwork that has recently undergone a historical renovation by Hanse Golf Course Design. In this episode, Andy Johnson and Garrett Morrison talk about what makes Southern Hills an exciting major venue and chat with Gil Hanse himself about his team’s work on the course.

For the latest edition of our Superintendent Series, Andy Johnson talks with Justin DePippo, the Director of Golf Course and Grounds at Bel-Air Country Club. Andy and Justin discuss Tom Doak's recent restoration of George Thomas's design at Bel-Air, the unique challenges of maintaining turf in the California canyons, the complex logistics behind golf course construction, and a variety of other topics. The Superintendent Series is brought to you by the Toro Company.

Happy Earth Day! As we did last year at this time, we asked Dr. Cole Thompson to come on the podcast and chat about golf's relationship with the environment. Cole is the assistant director of Green Section Research at the USGA, and he helps run the Turfgrass and Environmental Research Program. In this episode, Cole talks with Garrett Morrison about what may be the golf course industry's single biggest problem in the 21st century: water. Cole and Garrett address the optics issues around using water for recreational purposes in an era of climate change before delving into the many ways that golf courses can conserve more water and even offer H2O-related benefits to their communities.

After a recent visit to Pastiempo Golf Club in Santa Cruz, California, Andy Johnson and Garrett Morrison figured it was time to dedicate a full podcast to this brilliant (and publicly accessible!) Alister MacKenzie design. From the underrated front nine to the controversial finishing holes, Andy and Garrett dig into the features that make the course a must-visit for any golfer. They wrap up their chat by turning an eye to the future and discussing their hopes and concerns regarding last week's news that Pasatiempo will undergo major rebuild of its heralded MacKenzie greens.

Justin Ray (@JustinRayGolf) has an unrivaled ability to present statistics and historical facts in a way that gives golf fans a better understanding of players and their performances. He and Garrett Morrison chat about Justin’s methods and his background in media before diving into the key storylines of the 2021-22 PGA Tour season so far. They explore some numbers and notes related to Scottie Scheffler’s rise, Collin Morikawa’s incredible early-career performance in majors, and Rory McIlroy’s [fire emoji] final round at the 2022 Masters. They also discuss some of the big questions they hope to see answered as the year unfolds. More of Justin's work can be found at Twenty First Group, where he is Head of Content, as well as on The Athletic and PGATour.com.

Scottie Scheffler played so brilliantly at the 2022 Masters that, for much of the final round, the outcome wasn’t in doubt. But what this Masters may have lacked in competitive tension, it made up for in rich storylines. To think through some of these deeper narratives, Garrett Morrison speaks with three guests: Jaime Diaz (@JaimeDiazGC), a veteran golf writer who is currently an analyst for Golf Channel; Bob Crosby (@Otey71), a golf historian; and Joseph LaMagna (@JosephLaMagna), the analytics whiz behind the Finding the Edge newsletter. For more reflections on the Masters from the Fried Egg team, go to our Masters hub. Timestamps: (3:40) Jaime Diaz interview (29:11) Bob Crosby interview (49:18) Joseph LaMagna interview

What should I know before going to the Masters? What are the most underrated and overrated vantage points at Augusta National? How can I best appreciate the course architecture? Should I actually avoid the merch tent? If you’re planning to attend the Masters sometime in the future, these are questions you might ask yourself. To get some answers, Garrett Morrison talks with Andy Johnson, Brendan Porath, and Michael Wolf (@bamabearcat), all of whom are deeply familiar with the lay of the land at Augusta National. They give recommendations for what a first-time Masters spectator should do (and not do), and they discuss their favorite spots on the property. For more Fried Egg Masters coverage, check out our Masters hub.

Masters week is here! To preview the upcoming action, Andy Johnson welcomes Shane Bacon (@shanebacon), co-host of Golf Today on Golf Channel and host of the recently revived Get a Grip podcast, to discuss the five things they're looking forward to seeing at Augusta National. From Scottie Scheffler to Justin Thomas to a potential Tiger return, Andy and Shane cover the top storylines going into the 2022 Masters.

With the Augusta National Women’s Amateur wrapping up tomorrow and the 2022 Masters approaching, Andy Johnson and Garrett Morrison sit down to discuss the latest changes to America’s most influential golf course. They touch on the tree removal along the right side of No. 11, the lengthening of No. 15, and the short-grass expansions on several holes. They also talk about which renovations they hope to see next, and how the club’s philosophy of course design and presentation may be shifting. Read Andy’s article on the changes at Augusta National and Meg Adkins’s piece on how the format on the ANWA could be improved.

The 2022 Augusta National Women's Amateur begins tomorrow, and who better to talk to about it than Emilia Migliaccio (@emiliamigliacc1)? Emilia played in the inaugural ANWA in 2019, finished second last year, and will be in the field again this week. She talks with Garrett Morrison about the unique aspects of the event, the different challenges of the two host courses, her strategies for negotiating Augusta National’s greens, and the lessons she learned after coming up short in a playoff last year. In addition to being an elite amateur golfer, Emilia is also an accomplished writer and a Golf Channel reporter, and she explains why she has decided to pursue a career in journalism instead of turning professional in golf.

Today we tell the story of one of the great lost elements of match-play golf: the stymie. A stymie occurred when one player’s ball on the green ended up between the hole and the opponent’s ball. Unless the balls were within six inches of one another, the ball closer to the hole could not be lifted. The player who was away simply had to figure out what to do next. When the governing bodies eliminated the stymie in 1952, more than a curious little quirk of match play was lost, according to our guest Stephen Proctor. In a conversation with Garrett Morrison, Stephen argues that the stymie embodied a larger attitude toward the game—an attitude that fell out of favor in the mid-20th century, but one that is worth remembering, and perhaps reviving, today. Stephen's book The Long Golden Afternoon is available for pre-order now.

With last week's Distance Insights update from the USGA and R&A, it made sense to bring in Geoff Shackelford (@geoffshac) to discuss the latest developments. Geoff has been writing about and covering the distance issue in golf for over 20 years. In this episode, he chats with Andy Johnson about what's coming, how players and equipment companies will be affected, and whether bifurcation has finally arrived. Andy and Geoff also catch up on two timely topics: the Saudi-backed LIV Golf league and the Masters. You can read more of Geoff's musings in his Substack newsletter The Quadrilateral.

Andy Johnson and Garrett Morrison sit down (in person this time!) to discuss an array of listener questions. They talk about how the PGA Tour can better assess shot-shaping skills, which musical artist TPC Sawgrass resembles, how golf telecasts can improve, which golf books they would recommend, whether big-name architects are getting too busy, and what changes they would make to Augusta National’s course if they had their druthers. Many thanks to our followers on Twitter and Instagram for the questions!

Former PGA Tour player Roberto Castro (@cicioCASTRO) talks with Andy Johnson about the marathon that was the 2022 Players Championship. From the weather to the final putt on Monday, Roberto shares his insights into what makes the tournament so difficult to predict, how Saturday gave us a glimpse into what a rollback might look like, and what he thinks the most difficult shot on the course is. The current state of golf course development is also discussed in the back half of the episode. In addition to hosting the Course Record Show podcast, Roberto runs his own golf consulting business, Castro Golf Consulting.

In February 2020, Garrett Morrison interviewed 1976 U.S. Open champion Jerry Pate about his win at the 1982 Players Championship, the first Players held at TPC Sawgrass. Jerry talked about his first impressions of the Pete Dye-designed Stadium Course, his post-victory leap into the pond next to the 18th green, and his fond memories of his friends Pete and Alice Dye. We used excerpts from Jerry and Garrett's conversation in our documentary podcast “Making TPC Sawgrass.” Since it’s now the 40th anniversary of the '82 Players, we figured it was a good time to air the interview in full. Check out our video on the history, design, and evolution of TPC Sawgrass.

It’s tradition around here to release a “Five Things About...” episode on Tuesday before a major championship. Since the Players Championship, in spite of the PGA Tour’s best efforts, isn’t quite a major, we thought “Four Things” would suffice. Andy Johnson calls up Sean Martin (@PGATourSMartin), the newly anointed king of editorial at PGATour.com, to chat about the latest happenings on tour and the most interesting storylines going into the week at TPC Sawgrass.

Things have been moving quickly for Phil Mickelson. After his comments about the Saudi-backed Super Golf League made headlines, he was dropped by most of his major sponsors and pilloried by both the media and his PGA Tour colleagues. The backlash was surprisingly severe, even if much of it was well deserved. Mickelson’s knowing involvement with Saudi sportswashing was indefensible. But that doesn’t mean that everything he said about the SGL was nonsense. In fact, his basic position that the PGA Tour needs to be challenged is worth taking seriously. So in this episode, Andy Johnson and Garrett Morrison discuss how competition from rival leagues could force the Tour to improve its product. Here is Garrett’s article “Phil Mickelson and the Uses of Leverage.” Also, check out the Fried Egg Events page on Golf Genius.

Joshua C.F. Smith (@joshuacfsmith) has worn many hats in golf. From playing competitively in college to serving as superintendent at Orinda Country Club outside of Oakland, California, he has seen many aspects of the industry. He has also found time to become a renowned painter of golf landscapes and help found FlagBag Golf Co. (@flagbaggolf). In the latest installment of our Superintendent Series, Josh sits down with Andy Johnson to share stories about his wide-ranging career. The Superintendent Series is brought to you by the Toro Company.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is making major inroads in professional golf. It holds lucrative annual events, funds a 10-event series on the Asian Tour, and hopes to lure the world’s best male players to a proposed Super Golf League. Recently, the SGL initiative has taken a hit because of Phil Mickelson’s loose lips, but Saudi Arabia appears committed to its golf strategy, and it’s clear that the country is engaged in a practice known as “sportswashing.” As one of our guests, Dr. Helen Lenskyj, defines it, sportswashing involves “attempts on the part of authoritarian regimes to improve their tarnished global reputations through sport.” It is important for golf fans to understand this concept because the Saudis aren’t going anywhere. We have two guests today: Dr. Lenskyj, an academic researcher who focuses on the relationship between sports and global politics; and Will Bardwell, a civil rights attorney and golf writer. Time stamps: 2:49—Will Bardwell interview, part 1 13:11—Helen Lenskyj interview 30:25—Will Bardwell interview, part 2 Reading material: Will Bardwell, “Blind Men and Blood” Helen Lenskyj, The Olympic Games: A Critical Approach Check out The Fried Egg Events page on Golf Genius.

The third of our deep dives into the five 18-hole courses at Bandon Dunes focuses on Bandon Trails, built by Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw in 2005. Andy Johnson and Garrett Morrison talk about how the construction of Bandon Trails fit into the resort’s history, and they play an interview clip in which Coore discusses the origins of the course’s three-part identity. Andy and Garrett then launch into a wide-ranging discussion of Bandon Trails’ (many) strengths and (few) weaknesses. They cover, among other things, their favorite green-to-tee transitions, the controversy around the 14th hole, and the course’s similarities to Saving Private Ryan, The Princess Bride, and Bruce Bowen. (All of that will make sense in context, we promise.) The Bandon Deep Dives are brought to you by Zero Restriction.

With the final tournament of the West Coast swing upon us, it's a good time to catch up with Joseph LaMagna (@JosephLaMagna), Fried Egg contributor and author of the biweekly newsletter Finding the Edge, about the early part of the 2022 PGA Tour season. Andy Johnson grills Joseph on who has impressed and disappointed thus far and what he makes of the very low scores we've seen almost weekly. They wrap up their chat with what to expect at Riviera later this week and the specific skill sets the course will test.

In the latest edition of our Superintendent Series, Andy Johnson meets up with Eric Richardson (@erichturf), Director of Grounds at Essex County Club, at the Golf Course Superintendents Association of America (GCSAA) Conference and Trade Show in San Diego, California. Along with architect Bruce Hepner, Eric has worked to return Essex County to its Donald Ross roots. He has overseen projects such as enlarging greens, changing mowing lines, reshaping bunkers, giving the course a minimalist look and feel, and maintaining ideal playing conditions on the property's unique terrain. Andy and Eric also discover they have a similar disdain for ball washers. The Superintendent Series is brought to you by the Toro Company.

Ben Cowan-Dewar is the co-founder and CEO of Cabot, the company that developed Cabot Cape Breton and recently purchased World Woods Golf Club in Florida. Ben talks with Andy Johnson about Cabot’s first U.S.-based property, which will be rebranded as Cabot Citrus Farms. They also discuss Ben’s unconventional path to becoming a golf course developer, the early days of Cabot Links, and his experiences working with Bill Coore and other great architects.

In the latest installment of our “What to Know About…” series on golf’s greatest architects, we focus on Perry Maxwell, the designer of many courses, including Prairie Dunes, Southern Hills, and Old Town Club. Garrett Morrison and Andy Johnson kick off the episode by talking about The Fried Egg’s upcoming event at Dornick Hills Country Club, the first course Maxwell built. We then present two conversations: one between Garrett and biographer Chris Clouser on Perry Maxwell’s life and work, and another between Andy and architect Colton Craig (@craig_colton) on Colton’s quest to play every Maxwell course in existence. Toward the end of the podcast, we return to Chris for some closing reflections on Maxwell’s architectural legacy. (Time stamps below.) The Banker, our June 6 event at Dornick Hills in Ardmore, Oklahoma, opens for registration on Monday, February 7. For more information, visit our new events page on Golf Genius. Check out The Midwest Associate, Chris Clouser’s biography of Perry Maxwell. Time stamps: 0:35—Discussion of Dornick Hills and The Banker 7:04—Chris Clouser interview 36:34—Colton Craig interview 54:05—Final thoughts with Chris Clouser

Legendary golf course architect Bill Coore returns to the podcast for the first time in over two years. He and Andy Johnson have a lot to catch up on, and they cover a number of past and present Coore & Crenshaw projects, including Old Sandwich Golf Club, Bandon Trails, the Warren Golf Course at Notre Dame, and Brambles in Northern California. Bill shares his insights on the current boom in golf course construction and how it differs from the last upturn in the 90s and early 00s. He finishes with some reflections on what keeps him going and what he loves most about designing golf courses.

In the second of their five Bandon Dunes deep dives, Andy Johnson and Garrett Morrison discuss what may be the resort’s most polarizing course: Old Macdonald, built by Tom Doak and Jim Urbina in 2009. Andy and Garrett start with a historical rundown, touching on the origins of C.B. Macdonald and Seth Raynor’s “ideal holes,” the decision to make Old Mac a tribute to those templates, and the unusual collaborative process behind the construction of the course. Then Andy and Garrett dig into the nitty-gritty of Old Mac’s design. They talk about the holes they love (and don’t quite love), and they try to figure out why this unique, brilliant course sometimes rubs people the wrong way. The Bandon Deep Dives are brought to you by Zero Restriction (code: OLDMAC).

While visiting Scottsdale, Arizona, Andy Johnson met up with Tim Jackson and David Kahn of Jackson Kahn Design (@JKDgolfdesign). Tim and David got their start working for Tom Fazio’s organization, founded their own firm in 2009, and went on to do striking, ambitious work at Monterey Peninsula Country Club and Scottsdale National Golf Club. In this episode, they describe their design style, share stories of working for Bob Parsons (“kaboom, baby!”), and explain how a video game helped them conceptualize the Bad Little Nine at Scottsdale National. They also have some choice words about the current state of golf course architecture as an art.