The Fifth Estate

Sally Warhaft, Peter Cronau and Scott Ludlam in conversation on stage at Bendigo Writers Festival. Why is WikiLeaks so important? What is there to be learned from the documents released? According to the writers in A Secret Australia, the leaking of hidden government documents yielded knowledge that is essential for journalists and institutions to analyse the consequences of covert and unaccountable state power. “We open governments” is WikiLeaks’ motto, yet its crusade for transparent, accountable government has led to criminal charges being laid against its founder, Julian Assange, and whistleblower Chelsea Manning. Assange now faces espionage and hacking-related charges from the US government. A Secret Australia’s co-editor Peter Cronau and contributor and former Greens Senator Scott Ludlam joined Sally Warhaft at Bendigo Writers Festival earlier this year for a discussion about what is kept from public view and why. What are the limits of journalism when reporting on state apparatuses, and what is a publisher’s responsibility when dealing with state secrets? #TWCFifthEstatePresented in partnership with Bendigo Writers FestivalSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft and George Megalogenis Remember March 2020? When Australian borders closed, when we saw the first round of social restrictions? When the disturbing and surreal realities of COVID-19 finally hit home across Australia? March! We were so young. Back then, Sally Warhaft caught up with George Megalogenis for a Fifth Estate conversation about political leadership during the pandemic, and about its historic and economic precedents. So much has happened since. Six months on, the pair catch up again to take stock of the shifting situation and look to the future. How will the decisions made by Scott Morrison, his government, and the national cabinet affect us for decades to come? What are the long-term economic implications of closed borders? What will happen to global markets and local jobs? What will we rebuild in the post-recession economy and what can we create anew? The Fifth Estate will take a break for the remainder of 2020, but the series will return fortnightly in 2021 with Sally Warhaft bringing you more live news, current affairs, politics and analysis. In the meantime, keep your eyes peeled for an exciting announcement about a new project from Warhaft and the Wheeler Centre, starting later this month. #TWCFifthEstateSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What might the economic and social upheavals of 2020 mean for climate policy in Australia? For this Fifth Estate conversation, host Sally Warhaft brings together Judith Brett and Marian Wilkinson – two writers who have undertaken in-depth research into the resource economy and Australian climate scepticism. Brett's recent Quarterly Essay, 'The Coal Curse', traces the history of Australia's resource dependence and its impact on our political culture. Wilkinson's book, The Carbon Club, explores the loose but powerful alliance of Australian media, mining and political figures whose scepticism has hindered meaningful climate policy development for decades. There are signs, though, that the stalemate might be starting to shift. Amid widespread criticism during the bushfires earlier this year, Scott Morrison began to soften his climate rhetoric, speaking of ‘adaptation’ and ‘resilience’. James Murdoch spoke out against News Corp’s climate scepticism in January and, more recently, dramatically resigned from the board. Will the seismic impacts of Covid-19 set us back into our entrenched economic habits, or could 2020 mark a turning point? #TWCFifthEstateSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft and Kevin Rudd, live via video-link What are the origins of COVID-19? How could the pandemic’s spread have been better contained? These are fraught and complex questions – and finding the right forum to ask them is a diplomatic minefield. How will Australia's call for a World Health Assembly investigation affect our relationship with China and other major global players? And how is the world's diplomatic and economic order being reshaped in the midst of the crisis – and of governments' widely varying responses? Kevin Rudd joins Sally Warhaft for a live-streamed Fifth Estate discussion of these questions and more. As president of the Asia Society Policy Institute in New York, a former Australian diplomat in China, and, of course, our former Prime Minister and Foreign Minister, Rudd shares his reflections on diplomacy and governance, his insights into how the pandemic is likely to alter international relations, and his thoughts on how Australia can continue to manage the far-reaching economic and political impacts of COVID-19.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft speaks with Tom Porteous, who joined us live from Paris Tom Porteous is a former journalist for the Guardian and the BBC, and an expert on global conflict management and resolution. Now deputy program director at Human Rights Watch, he joined Sally Warhaft live from Paris to discuss human rights and COVID-19. The pair talk through the existing tensions and inequities the pandemic has brought into sharp relief. They discuss, too, the immediate human rights challenges – from healthcare access and healthcare workers’ labor rights to family violence, education access and prisoners’ rights, to increasing incidents of racism. Porteous also discusses post-pandemic life and the reasons for caution and optimism. What challenges can we anticipate, and mitigate, in terms of vaccine access? And could the post-COVID moment prompt a rethinking of social contracts, and an era of major public policy innovation?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft, left, and Joshua Wong Joshua Wong was still a teenager when he rose to international prominence as a leader in Hong Kong’s 2014 Umbrella Movement, protesting increased Chinese Communist Party intervention in the city’s electoral system. ‘That’s the transformation of Hong Kongers … Before last summer, nobody could imagine more than 2 million people taking to the streets. […] But we did it. Almost one-fourth of the population [stood] up against the regime of Beijing.’ A lot has happened since. Wong has served two prison terms and been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. He's co-founded a new political party, Demosistō, and written a book, Unfree Speech. All the while, the protest movement in Hong Kong has simmered on, boiling over last year into extraordinary mass protests and brutal police confrontations. With Sally Warhaft, Wong talks about the evolution of Hong Kong’s democracy movement and the impact of COVID-19. Assembly restrictions enforced due to the pandemic have hampered demonstrations and possibly cleared the path for more authoritarian rule in the city. In mid-April, more than a dozen high-profile pro-democracy activists were arrested. How does Wong expect these arrests to impact Hong Kong's legislative elections in September? What effect might a weakened United States and an emboldened China have on the One Country, Two Systems principle that grants Hong Kong special autonomy? Wong reflects on these questions and more. #TWCFifthEstate See also The Fifth Estate: Joshua Wong: Unfree Speech / Activism With Joshua Wong and Sally Warhaft The Fifth Estate: The World’s Largest Party: China / Australian politics What’s That Sound? Activism Today / Activism With Tess Lawley, Gary Foley, Amelia Telford and 2 others See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft interviews Malcolm Turnbull – in his home – from the Wheeler Centre in Melbourne In 2015, when Malcolm Turnbull returned to the Liberal Party leadership and assumed the Australian Prime Ministership, he brought with him a passion for free enterprise, a touch of style and a vision for an ‘agile Australia’. But Turnbull's view of the Liberal Party – a progressive party of the ‘sensible centre’, with individual freedom and aspiration at its core – put him at odds with the Liberals’ conservative wing. He clashed with them throughout most of his political career. Sally Warhaft, left, and Malcolm Turnbull His rocky ride in the Australian Parliament was defined by moments such as the carbon emissions debate and the historic same-sex marriage survey. These form just part of his new memoir, A Bigger Picture, which also recounts Turnbull’s rise to prominence as a successful lawyer, businessman and leader of Australia's Republican movement. With Sally Warhaft, Turnbull discusses his life and the trajectory of his extraordinary career. The pair talk, too, about the current state of Australian politics, his notable encounters during his time in public office, and the pressures that permeate a Prime Ministership. It’s an uncertain moment for the arts, for writers and for everybody. If you’re in a position to support our efforts to bring you books, writing and ideas from a safe distance, you can make a contribution here. Thank you for your generosity.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft, left, and George Megalogenis There is little doubt now that the COVID-19 coronavirus will drastically alter our lives, communities and societies for some time to come. Amid confusing, contradictory or misleading information about how we should respond – and how we should protect ourselves and each other – the pandemic has already tested our social fabric. How the crisis will affect our healthcare, economic and political systems is yet to be understood, but we appear to be approaching a major reckoning. ‘The funny thing about this is it’s Spanish Flu, the Great Depression and the Second World War all wrapped into one.’ So, how can we make sense of it all? What kinds of measured, long-term perspectives can we bring to the constant, rapidly-shifting flow of news updates and band-aid measures? In a special live-streamed edition of The Fifth Estate, journalist George Megalogenis joins host Sally Warhaft for a careful analysis of our precarious present and the future that may follow. Drawing on lessons from the past – including the 2008 Global Financial Crisis, post-World War II unemployment and more – they consider what the compounding challenges of the coronavirus will mean for our national character, for different workers and citizens, and for our political era. How will we be changed? #TWCFifthEstate It’s an uncertain moment for the arts, for writers and for everybody. If you’re in a position to support our efforts to bring you books, writing and ideas from a safe distance, you can make a contribution here. Thank you for your generosity.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bob Brown The bushfires that raged across the country this summer have caused environmental and economic damage that will be felt for years to come. In Canberra, they have ignited a frenzy of finger-pointing in every direction. In this Fifth Estate discussion, Sally Warhaft talks with environmentalist and former Greens leader Bob Brown about the ecological, political and economic implications of this urgent and ongoing national issue. Having served for 16 years in the Australian Senate, does Brown believe a lasting shift in public mood and policy is now possible? What are the short-term and long-term priorities in the federal bushfire response? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For the final Fifth Estate of 2019, George Megalogenis returns to reflect with host Sally Warhaft on the year in Australian politics. Sally Warhaft and George Megalogenis They discuss the early manoeuvres of Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese, and the 46th federal parliament. They talk, too, about the stories that made domestic headlines – as well as how major international news events were felt here in Australia. What do these stories and controversies reveal about our country and our culture? It’s been a wild ride of a decade in Australian politics, with seven prime ministers in 10 years. What does the next year – and the next decade – hold in store? This is our final episode of The Fifth Estate for 2019; we'll be back early in 2020 with a new slate of conversations. Stay tuned!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How does a person navigate the change from activist outsider to influential insider? How do you balance idealism and pragmatism under pressure? Pulitzer Prize-winning writer Samantha Power has had to navigate these questions first-hand. From a troubled childhood in Dublin to a career as a war correspondent then academic, she landed at the heart of American politics in 2005 – when her critiques of US foreign policy drew the attention of Barack Obama. She joined his team, eventually becoming a senior human rights adviser. After an early misstep (she branded Hillary Clinton ‘a monster’, and lost her job over the incident), Power served in the White House’s National Security Council as Special Assistant to the President for Multilateral Affairs and Human Rights. In 2013, she was appointed to the coveted position of US Ambassador to the United Nations. As she reveals in her newest book, The Education of an Idealist, the intensity of her work was matched by personal struggle – trying to start a family, then raising young children; dealing with anxiety attacks and her own painful childhood. Power has been celebrated for her skill and influence, and has proudly worn the title of activist. She has also drawn sharp criticism from some quarters, particularly in her advocacy for ‘humanitarian intervention’, and her arguments for US action or inaction in Libya, Syria and Yemen. In conversation with Sally Warhaft, Samantha Power discusses the complexity of decision-making, the tensions between activism and power, and the reconciliation of past and future. Sally Warhaft and Samantha Power See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For this Fifth Estate discussion, we're joined by two prominent historians for a conversation about their careers, and how they have each navigated the changing tropes and traditions of Australian history writing. What role do contemporary historians play in shaping the way all Australians remember – and reckon with – the past? From left to right: Sally Warhaft, Clare Wright and Geoffrey Blainey Geoffrey Blainey is the author of more than 40 books, including The Rush That Never Ended, The Story of Australia’s People, and, perhaps most famously, The Tyranny of Distance, which has been in print since 1966. Clare Wright is an eminent academic and broadcaster and the Stella Prize-winning author of The Forgotten Rebels of Eureka and You Daughters of Freedom. Both writers have brought their research to large and enthralled readerships. How does writing about the past shape the possibilities of the future? Blainey and Wright join Sally Warhaft to discuss their approaches to writing Australian history: warts, beauty spots and blind spots.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

American-born journalist Megan K. Stack is an acclaimed author and war correspondent. She was Moscow bureau chief for the L.A. Times when she made the decision to work from home and look after her newborn child. As her growing family followed her husband’s work through China and India, Stack’s new life forced her to understand the economy of women’s work, and the inequalities that make it possible to exploit ‘poor women, brown women, migrant women’. Megan Stack (left) and Sally Warhaft (right) Stack’s memoir, Women’s Work: A Reckoning with Work and Home, undertakes a forthright and relentless examination of domestic labour, and the complexities of working parenthood – for herself and for the babysitters, cooks and cleaners which made her continuing career possible. She asks: ‘Why was it that, whatever you desired, you could find a poor woman to sell it?’ In conversation with Sally Warhaft at Bendigo Writers Festival, Megan K. Stack discusses the ethics, unexpected emotional shifts and negotiations of the household as a workplace. Presented in partnership with Bendigo Writers Festival.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mia Love Mia Love was once a rising star of the Republican Party. She was the first black female Republican elected to congress, running and winning in Utah's 97% white 4th District in 2015. During her time in office, Love was appointed to the House Financial Services Committee, which oversees the Treasury and the Federal Reserve. But Love chose not to embrace President Donald Trump during her mid-term election campaign last year, and drew his ire. Since losing her re-election bid (by just one percentage point) Love has become an outspoken critic of the President. 'My district was home to many strong supporters of President Trump,' Love has written. '... They love his economic record, his peace-through-strength foreign policy, his "America First" stance on trade, and his choices for judicial appointments. They don't love racism.' Love has been critical of Republicans' 'transactional' approach to working with black Americans and minorities. But are Democrats doing any better? And how does Love think the 2020 presidential elections will play out? 'I’m not going away,' Mia Love said in her scathing concession speech. 'But now, I am unleashed, I am untethered and I am unshackled.' She shares her unique and candid perspective with host Sally Warhaft.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft and Tim Costello For decades, Tim Costello has been among Australia’s most outspoken voices on issues of social justice and global inequality. Through his work as a minister, as a lawyer and as the mayor of St Kilda council, he’s tackled pressing social issues – from gambling and homelessness to gun control. He’s perhaps best known to most Australians, though, for his 15-year tenure as CEO of World Vision – a job which took him to conflict and disaster zones across the world, including to Darfur and to several countries affected by the Boxing Day Tsunami. In his new memoir, A Lot with a Little, Costello reflects on his life and varied career. He reflects, too, on how his experiences have shaped his views on questions of equality, liberty, faith and community. With Sally Warhaft, he discusses the book, his ongoing work and the confronting and complex work of tackling global inequality. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft and Jess Hill The recent book by Jess Hill, See What You Made Me Do, calls for a drastic and urgent rethink in the way we conceive of family violence in Australia. Rigorously researched, and packed with interviews and case studies, it's a once-in-a-generation book that asks us to look beyond received wisdom to confront the complexities of family violence squarely. Hill asks: What are we really doing about family violence? Why, in so many cases, are our justice and enforcement systems making things worse for women and children? Why have we settled for modest gains and vague long-term targets? What causes perpetrators to be violent and what can we do to stop it right now? With host Sally Warhaft, the Walkley-winning investigative journalist discusses her four-year undertaking of research and writing for See What You Made Me Do.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft and Michael Fullilove What is Australia’s place in the world? How are we getting along with our neighbours? And how is our international outlook changing? For this conversation, Sally Warhaft is joined by executive director of the Lowy Institute, Michael Fullilove. The pair discuss the foreign policy challenges Australia is facing now and into the future. Can we find ways to work better with our neighbours, especially Indonesia? How can we best navigate the increasing tension between China and the United States? How will the volatility of the Trump presidency and Brexit affect Australia in the years ahead? And what will Marise Payne bring to the role of Foreign Minister in a world of disruption and uncertainty? Join us for a wide-ranging spotlight on foreign affairs, encompassing trade, alliances, cybersecurity and powerful and populous neighbours.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft and Niki Savva When Julia Gillard overthrew Kevin Rudd in 2010 it was as if the Canberra sky fell in. In the years since, we’ve seen Rudd the Second punished by the electorate and Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull each dispatched by their own party. This year, something changed. Scott Morrison and the Coalition government were re-elected as if the leadership coup against Turnbull never occurred. Niki Savva is a veteran of Australian journalism and Liberal Party circles – and she was among the many people who were shocked by the May 18 result. At the time of the election, Savva was working on a book called Highway to Hell, documenting the infighting that led to Turnbull's downfall and an expected defeat for the coalition in the polls. The election result occasioned an extra chapter and a new title for the project. The finished book, called Plots and Prayers: Malcolm Turnbull’s Demise and Scott Morrison’s Ascension tells the inside story of conflict and vengeance within the Liberal Party and the extraordinary rise of our new Prime Minister. With Sally Warhaft, Savva discusses Canberra savagery and political miracles.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft, Ranjana Srivastava and Gustav Nossal There's much to celebrate in the history of Australian medicine and medical care – from the famous breakthrough in penicillin to the development of the Gardasil vaccine. Our Medicare model is the envy of many countries. But have we become complacent? What are the pre-existing and emerging gaps in our system? And how might we adapt our healthcare and research models in line with changes in demography and technology? In this Fifth Estate discussion, Gustav Nossal and Ranjana Srivastava join Sally Warhaft for a long, hard look at Australian healthcare today. Where do we need to direct our investment? Join us for a conversation about who’s getting adequate care, who’s missing out and what we can learn from care and research models overseas.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sally Warhaft and Paul Kelly A month on from the federal election, once the dust has settled, we take an in-depth look at the events of 18 May and discuss what we might expect from the new Morrison government. With a mandate, and likely a revamped front bench, can Scott Morrison unite a fractured country and leave a lasting legacy? What are the policy goals of the Liberals in their third term in government and how will they handle the cynicism that has infected much of the electorate? What kinds of new alliances might we see forming in the Left of politics over the next few years? Host Sally Warhaft and veteran journalist Paul Kelly also discuss how the inaccuracy of the 2019 pre-election forecasts might affect our political culture. With predictions proving surprisingly inaccurate, is there reason to hope our elected representatives may now break free from the tyranny of fortnightly news polls? What might that mean for Labor?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.