The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators

This episode of The Exit Interview features a deep dive into the experiences and insights of Jailyn Jenkins, a former STEM educator who transitioned into a role supporting Black educators after facing burnout. Jailyn shares her personal journey, highlighting the significance of mental health, the critical need for authentic recruitment and retention strategies for educators of color, and the transformative power of rest and healing. The discussion also covers the establishment of BEST (BIPOC Educational STEM Thinkers), a community initiative aimed at fostering joy, belonging, and advocacy amongst educators of color. The episode is an inspiring call to action for supporting Black educators, enriching educational environments, and prioritizing well-being in the educational field.

In this episode of The Exit Interview, Dr. Asia Lyons and special guest Dr. Cletis Allen delve into the educational journey of black educators. Dr. Allen, an advocate for culturally responsive literacy instruction and a curriculum development specialist, shares her transition from a classroom teacher to a consultant. Discussing the importance of teacher participation in curriculum decisions, shared experiences of navigating through educational careers, and the significance of seeking joy and satisfaction in personal and professional life. This episode sheds light on challenges faced by black educators and explores the transformative power of education.

In this episode, of the Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators Yasha Chapman, an accomplished Black educator and CEO of Elementary Education Evolved, shares her experiences and insights about the challenges faced by Black educators and the importance of retaining them in the field of teaching. Yasha discusses her journey in education, from initially wanting to be a pharmacist to becoming a classroom teacher and eventually an instructional coach. She emphasizes the need to amplify the voices of Black educators, involve them in decision-making processes, and compensate them for their expertise. Yasha's consultancy, Elementary Education Evolved, focuses on providing professional development and coaching for new teachers and aims to close the academic achievement gap for Black and Brown students in the K-5 setting. This episode offers valuable insights and strategies for school districts, human resources departments, and school unions to better retain Black educators and create a more inclusive and supportive educational environment.

In this weeks compelling episode, we speak with Dr. Asia Lyons, CEO of Lyons Educational Consulting, co-facilitator of the Black Educator Wellness Cohort, and co-host of The Exit Interview Podcast. With experiences spanning Detroit to Denver, Dr. Lyons shares her journey, from attending a gifted high school and navigating failure in college, to shedding light on the critical role of community colleges and nontraditional pathways into education (#shoutout to those bus routes!).

After teaching in Atlanta's public schools Brittni had to make a choice, quit teaching or try her hand at teaching in the Middle East. Take a listen as she shares her experience as an educator both here and abroad, what she feels would improve schools in the United States and what she is up to now that she is back state side.

In this episode of The Exit Interview, Kev and Dr. Asia sit down with Deidra Fogarty founder of Black Girls Teach an organization that offers Black women educators a supportive environment to openly grow, collaborate, and unite as they demand change in education. Take a listen as she talks about her transition out of education, strategies she feels could turn the tied of Black women leaving education and how Black Girls Teach is changing the game for education across the U.S.

Michelle Emmanuelle is a former private school educator turned wellness educator, consultant, and professional speaker. In her episode, she discusses the ways she navigated pressures from administrators and students. Michelle also provides our audience with healing practices that they can begin anywhere and in any situation.

In this episode, we are joined by Lacey Robinson, the president and CEO of UnboundEd and the chair of the Board of CORE Learning. As CEO, Robinson sets the organizations vision for transforming instruction for students at the margins. She is a former teacher, principal, and professional development specialist who has focused on literacy, equity, and school leadership for more than 25 years. Her lifes work aims to enable educators to disrupt systemic inequities in their school districts and classrooms.She shares her journey from a pre-service educator at Marva Collins Prep to her current position in UnboundEd.

We're back for another episode! In this edition, we have a conversation with Ronda Haynes-Belen, a former family liaison who played a vital role in connecting families with essential resources within a school district in the Denver area. Tune in as she opens up about her encounters with instances of anti-Black sentiment within her department, her choice to step away from that environment, and the self-care and healing she now prioritizes.

In this episode, Mia Street shares her story of working hard to protect Black children while creating her own peace within her community. Listen as Mia explores anti-blackness in the schools she supported as well as ways that she advocated for herself and the children in her care.

In this episode of the Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators, we continue discussing what it means to heal from racial battle fatigue in the workplace. Listen as Dr. Flowers shares her classroom experiences and how she supports the healing of Black educators.

In our first live tapping, Kevin and Dr. Asia sit down with Dr. Dedrick Sims of the Sims-Fayola Foundation to talk about the importance of retention and recruitment of Black and Brown male educators, his own education story, and what it means to heal while doing the work of educating our youth.

This will be Kevin's first year as an assistant principal in the Denver area! In this episode, he briefly talks about his ideas on how school districts can retain Black educators based on his experiences in the classroom.

Dr. Asia Lyons is a guest on The Thoughtful Counselor Podcast!"In this episode, Dr. Asia Lyons meets with Dr. Dsa Karye Daniel to discuss the tenants of Racial Battle Fatigue and racism-related stress. Throughout their conversation, they reflect on the experiences of Black Teachers and how sharing these experiences can change the narrative for future Black educators. Dr. Lyons gives examples of how mental health practitioners can support Black educators through culturally responsive practices." -From, The Thoughtful Counselor Podcast

In this episode, Janet Stickmon returns to the podcast to talk to our audience about what healing from racial battle fatigue could look like.

This brief episode highlights the crucial importance for school districts to acknowledge and address the influence of family support on the departure of Black educators from the education field. The departure is being triggered by various factors, such as policies, colleagues, administrators, and others who are contributing to pushing Black educators out. Simultaneously, family members of Black educators are also playing a significant role in pulling them out of the classroom, driven by their weariness of witnessing vicarious racial battle fatigue.As conversations arise about retention and recruitment during summer professional development sessions within the education sector, it is imperative to include the impact of family support in these discussions. Recognizing and understanding the role of family dynamics in the decisions of Black educators to remain or leave the profession can lead to more effective strategies for addressing the issue and fostering a supportive and inclusive environment for educators of all backgrounds.

Janet Stickmon was named 2023's Distinguished Professor by her university. She takes great pride in working with her students. She has created CenterJoyPWR: Strategies for Healing Racial Battle Fatiguean online experience for professionals of color who want to center joy in their lives. But before this Janet was a Catholic school educator with a strong desire to teach ethnic studies in a space with no interest in seeing their students understand the humanity of themselves and others. Listen as Janet shares her story along with fantastic strategies that school districts and universities should implement to retain Black educators.

Enola Garland found her way into the classroom as an early childhood educator. She quickly realized that working with three and four-year-olds was what she was meant for. After years in the ECE space and with COVID-19's impact on her students, colleagues, and herself along with racism-related stress in the workspace after the murder of George Floyd she knew she had to leave. Listen as Enola shares her story and what she is doing now that continues to support early child hood educators across Colorado.

Well, its time for me to tell my Exit Interview story. On the last day of school in 2018, I threw my work i.d. in the garbage can in front of the middle school where I had taught for six years. I didnt know what was next, but I knew I had to get the hell out of there! Listen as Kev, our producer Gerardo, and I talk about my journey from the D (Detroit, that is), my own experience with racism-related stress and racial battle fatigue to being the co-host of The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators.

Nedra Rudolph is one of thousands of educational professionals that many of us see but never truly SEE. Having worked in Title 1 schools, as a Dean of Students, a paraprofessional, and a family liason. These professionals are categorically invaluable, and grossly undercompensated.She had a great situation, but like in so many situations, when leadership changes, so does culture. Never was the old saying "sometimes it's your own people" more true than in this situation, when White supremacy was perpetrated by a fellow person of color.After a painful journey, Nedra was able to leave her position with her head held high. She still gets to work with children daily, and has found new joy in her work.

Branta Lockett moved through her educational odyssey at the highest levels. W.E.B. DuBois would have absolutely drafted her for his Talented Tenth All Star Team. Highly Gifted and Talented, International Baccalaureate, Brown University, she brought her sterling credentials to Denver, hoping to be the difference for all students, especially Black students.Her first two years as a Denver teacher were, simply put, great. But by year three, things began to unravel. She witnessed disproportionate disciplinary actions taken against Black boys. Still new to the work, she became a voice of advocacy for students and community. Her evaluation scores took a jarring dip. She changed roles, and found no support in any of them. Between COVID-19 and anti-Black dynamics within the union, she took the leap.The 5280 Freedom School, inspired by the Civil Rights eras Mississippi Freedom Schools, launched first as a summer program. After having their charter initially rejected, they are poised to open their doors in Harlem of the West, the Five Points neighborhood.This story is at once a cautionary tale and a call to action. Learn more at www.5280freedomschool.com; follow them on socials @5280freedomschool.

Jacci tells us her story of coming full circle. With her love for whom we in education consider as littles, she tells her journey as a childcare center owner who, with a heart for doing more for her community, begins her work as a Diversity Equity and Inclusion Director in a Denver Metro Area organization. Listen in as Jacci describes her story and advice for Black folks in the early learning space.

Arvian Harper is a Denver Public Schools lifer. A graduate of the hallowed halls of East High School, she received a full ride engineering scholarship, later changing to pre-med. Like so many of us, she heard the call to the classroom, and she heeded, teaching Early Childhood Education, becoming a Team Lead and eventually moving into leadership.After a series of difficult challengesa violent incident at the school, a strike, COVID-19 and a racial reckoning, she began to reflect on the Racial Battle Fatigue she had experienced. As she began to peel back the layers of trauma, she realized Theres a whole person in there.Since her healing journey began, she founded Awakening Cafe and has entered a consulting role with none other than our own Dr. Asia Lyons. Healing is possible.

After a turbulent year locally and nationally, Dr. Asia Lyons and Kevin Adams are back with your Back to School shopping list. They break down issues facing educators of color and the communities they serve as super-producer Gerardo Muoz sits in the virtual producers chair! Asia discusses life after PhD matriculation, Kevin shares the trials and tribulations of the now-completed Master Agreement contract negotiations in Denver Public Schools, and we evaluate the way forward for teachers of color. Should they follow Dr. Asia, our pedagogical Harriet Tubman to liberation? Will Kev teach forever? Does Gerardo have the attention span to make this interview pop?Find out in this back to school episode!

When a former director of equity in a school district joins our podcast you know its gonna be good. Stacey Brandon shares what led her to become a social worker in a Denver Metro school district, her journey to becoming director of their equity department, and consequently the decision she had to make realizing that it was time to move on. Enjoy another great episode!

Another fire episode! This time we are speaking to Dr. Jeanette Patterson, a former principal who now finds herself supporting the youth of the Denver Metro Area in a whole new way. Tune in as Dr. Patterson shares her education journey, what she thinks school districts can do to support educators, whats bringing her joy these days, and her plans for the future.

Since last season, we have brought you stories that are heart-wrenching, painful, and traumatic. Examples of racial battle fatigue, professional violence and PTSD, which, even though most have experienced a measure of healing, or begun that healing journey, are difficult.In some cases, Black classroom teachers depart the classroom to make a wider impact. This was the case for Dr. William Anderson, History teacher extraordinaire, who was just minding his own business, working on his doctorate, ready to return to the classroom for the 2021-2022 school year when he was tapped to take over the Teacher Education Program at the University of Denver, the first Black man to step into that role.Dr. Anderson knew this was an opportunity to impact the profession in a more powerful way, and went on a journey to make it happen.This is a provocative episode, and we encourage you to put on your intersectional lens as you digest this inspiring and powerful story.

Kevin and Asia listen to Crystal Gillis story. From leaving the classroom to facilitating and developing youth voice and leadership at YAASPA, her story is informative and impactful.

Scholar, Author, Entrepreneur, and Educator Desmond Williams has been there, done that. A talented and effective classroom teacher, he quickly moved up the ranks to building leadership. But even as a principal, Desmond was not achieving the impact he wanted to. He found himself in frequent conflict with fellow leaders, and gained a sense of clarity.That sense of clarity has manifested in his DEI firm Nylinka, a book, The Burning House, in which he echoes Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.s question about racism as a system that perhaps African Americans should try to escape, and frequent speaking engagements and training. Desmond shares his story, questions the notion of Racial Battle Fatigue, and gets out the receipts. Do not miss this one!

On December 21, Denverite broke the story that legendary community leader and Montbello/Far Northeast Warriors Coach Tony Lindsay, Sr. would not be invited back to coach football for the newly reunified Montbello High School football program. Despite a winning record that included a recent state championship, building leadership chose not to bring him back.Coach Lindsay is more than a football coach, and much more than an Xs and Os guy. He is a mentor, a friend, an elder, and a leader in his community since he began coaching nearly three decades ago. A onetime NFL player who played professionally in Canada, Coach Lindsays reputation is sterling in his community.Asia and Kevin sit with him and hear his story. He shares his emotional journey as he recounts times that he was all some of his players had, and the outcry since the announcement has been deafening. In a time when the Far Northeast community needs every hand on deck to unite the community, this will prove a difficult blow from which to recover.Listen and remember the value of community-grown leaders.Read the story:Coach Tony Lindsay Sr. will not lead the new Montbello High football team

Michael Diaz-Rivera was a brilliant and respected teacher with a reputation for empowering and inspiring his Black and Latinx students. He rose quickly to prominence for his unapologetic radical love for his community and our children. A frequent advocate and organizer for his professional association, school, and district, Michael was featured in local stories across the city for his tireless advocacy and sacrifice for his communities.Things went south, as they often do for Black educators. His outspoken nature landed him under thee microscope and he found his former allies turning from him. He departed teaching this summer. The classic Lauryn Hill lyric ya might win some, but ya just lost one springs to mind.Michael will be okay. Maybe even better. But will we?

Asia and Kevins interview with Dr. William Smith of the University of Utah was so saturated with wisdom that we brought him back for a part II!In this conversation, Dr. Smith shares his wisdom, doing a deep-dive into Racial Battle Fatigue. He discusses a litany of topics, including his rebuttal of the notion that Racial Battle Fatigue is analogous to post-traumatic stress disorder and the various manifestations of RBF, behavioral, psychological and physiological. He reveals that addressing racism as it is experienced by Black educators and their communities requires an honest look back over centuries, as opposed to reading a book or having a community circle in professional development.Get out your notebooks; Dr. Smith is going to take you to school with this one.

Equity is the goal for nearly every diverse school district in the country. As the ripple effects of generational trauma and systemic oppression continue to be felt in communities of color, especially Black and Brown communities, districts like the Denver Public Schools have created positions and offices of equity, inclusion, or both.Dr. Darlene Sampson, equity specialist coordinator at the Western Educational Equity Assistance Center and a clinical field faculty in the Department of Social Work at Metropolitan State University of Denver, was once the director of Culturally Responsive Education in Denver Public Schools, bringing with her three decades of experience to a vitally important office, especially as the district sought to end generational inequity and trauma within the school system. In 2006 she stepped into the position, confident and excited to begin the work that not only was she was she passionate about, she had lived it, growing up in Pueblo, Colorado where there were not that many of us.Soon, she discovered that her employer was not prepared to do the work. They were not ready for her greatness, which is to say that they did not establish the conditions under which true Culturally Responsive Education could grow. Instead of building a space for liberation, she describes her daily work as a battle ground, and even finds the term Racial Battle Fatigue to fall short in describing what she experienced. It was a plantation experience.Today, Dr. Sampson shares with us her experiences fighting the good fight, the correct fight, and the work in which she is currently engaged. She harbors no ill will; she simply realizes that her employers were simply not prepared for what Culturally Responsive work required.

This is a real special episode of the Exit Interview! Asia and Kevin talk with Dr. William A. Smith, professor of Education and Ethnic Studies at the University of Utah. Dr. Smith, who developed some of the most profound research around the concept of Racial Battle Fatigue, shares his research, insights and experiences tracking this phenomenon.In this profound and wide-ranging conversation, Dr. Smith discusses a veritable library of topics, so many that we decided to expand this conversation to two parts (Part II will be out this summerstay tuned!). He shares his perspectives on the positioning of school leaders and teachers in regard to revolutionary action. He shares his thoughts on Black representation in film as a pacifying force. He names the genocidal actions taken against Black people both past and present.Throughout this conversation with this next level scholar, the learning is strong, the struggle In contextualized, and the inspiration is total. Tune in!

Welcome to Episode 4 of the Exit Interview with Asia Lyons and Kevin Adams!This week we hear Shalelia Dillard share her story. It is a similar refrain for Black educators who have experienced institutional alienation and rejection within the education system. We invite you to listen and take in her story of optimism, belief in schooling as an equalizer and in her own brilliance and talents to provide a quality education for children generally, only to see her confidence and professionalism come under attack by the same forces that permeate our system.But, as we have seen during the life of this podcast, the process has been liberatory while still painful. Shalelia has discovered that most dangerous of discoveries: that it is possible to continue to be an educator without teaching in a school. She shares her inspirational path and reminds us of what it means to be not an industry artist, but an artist in the industry.

Being a Black educator in the American system of schooling will test the faith of the strongest. In this powerful episode, Doctoral candidate Donna Druery (who has her defense the day after this episode!) shares the long journey through education that ultimately ended with her departure. She shares upsetting experiences, ranging from the hostile to the absurd. An excellent educator once highly recruited and touted as exceptional in her context, she experienced what so many Black educators experience. Her professionalism was not simply questioned, but outright attacked. She was the subject of gossip among White teachers. For over a decade she found herself in a textbook abusive relationship with her job. At times, she felt that we were turning a corner only to find herself attacked again.Listeners will find resonance with Donnas story. The constant strategizing simply to be heard in her community the physical manifestations of her racial battle trauma.Through it all Donnas faith carried her to a degree that is jarring and powerful. Dont miss this episode of the Exit Interview!

Analise Harris embodies Black genius, Black ingenuity, and a resilience. Always socially conscious and connected to her community, Analise entered the education system through alternative means after studying sociology in college. Having worked with the NAACP and other advocacy organizations, we in education were bless to have her join our ranks and work with children every day. She was impactful immediately and beloved by her students and parent community.Then, as occurs so often with Black women teachers, things went south. The gossip. The microaggressions that became outright hostility. In a wrenching conversation that lays bare the pain shouldered by Black women educators, Analise shares in stark and unapologetic detail her harrowing journey from star teacher to persona non grata. Even today, she expresses bewilderment at the ways in which she was treated, as she re-lives the trauma of being run out of the classroom.But she never wavered in her commitment, her goals, and her certainty that she was doing right by her students. Listen as she turns her pain and struggle into one of the most exciting STEAM programs in the area. She now looks to corner the market that schools simply refuse to see. This is a powerful, painful, but ultimately inspirational story of healing and creative genius.Do not miss this one!

The Exit Interview premiers with the story of Sataira Douglas.When she came into the teaching game, Sataira was a highly regarded rising star in teaching. In a profession that struggles to recruit, let alone retain, Black teachers, Sataira was sought after by multiple school districts.The situation decayed quickly. Microaggressions and macroaggressions. Gaslighting. Frozen out by colleagues. Rumors. Blamed for colleagues health problems. Invisible labor. The stress on family and community members who watched her struggle and still hold her head high. Belittled publicly in front of colleagues.And still, Sataira came to work. Told herself it could be worse. Worried what would happen to her students if she left. Staying for a community of parents and children that she felt a bond with. Hold your head down. Just do your job.And yet, I knew I was going to quit by October.But through the pain and professional harm done to her, Sataira found a way to rise. To discover her power. To learn exactly how much was too much.