The Esau McCaulley Podcast

Pastor and author Sharon Hodde Miller joins Esau McCaulley for a surprising conversation about the live-action Lilo & Stitch and how a children's film quietly captures the realities of single motherhood, economic pressure, and communal grace. Then, Esau and Sharon talk about the challenges of pastoring in a polarizing time and how their online persona compares to their pastoral persona. Also, we have a Disney movie draft and a winner is declared. 0:00 - Theme Song 1:25 - Disney Movie Draft 13:40 - Lilo and Stitch 15:48 - Why Does Sharon Prefer the Remake? 22:42 - Single Motherhood 25:03 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238 27:10 - Being a Pastor with a Platform 40:45 - Free of Me 50:36 - End Credits Free of Me: Why Life is Better When It's Not About You by Sharon Hodde Miller: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0801075238?ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_R7GWYC5AW573Y1AZXT64&bestFormat=true

It's officially summer, and things are heating up. Esau is joined by Justin Giboney and producer Mike to swap summer playlists, celebrate Kirk Franklin's unexpected honor at the BET Awards, talk about what kids should do during the summer, and unpack the recent protests in Los Angeles following aggressive ICE raids. What does faithful protest look like? How do Christians respond when political theater overshadows human dignity? And can you really call it a cookout without Earth, Wind & Fire? 0:00 - Theme Song 1:17 - Cookout Playlist Mount Rushmore 5:35 - BET Music Awards and Kirk Franklin 11:55 - Kid Rock 18:36 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238 19:46 - Summer Protests 38:30 - Coco Gauff and Black Accomplishment 46:12 - End Credits

NBA Finals. Trump's sledgehammer policies. A Bible debate over sex. Esau, Justin Giboney, and Producer Mike truly tackle it all this week. First, why do small markets (and small churches) keep getting overlooked? Then, what's really driving the fight over international students on U.S. campuses? Also, a popular pastor claims the Bible does not say sex before marriage is wrong, but we aren't convinced. Finally, sports heartbreak, Taylor Swift, and Mike (kind of) makes his co-host debut. 0:00 - Theme Song 1:04 - NBA Finals and Small Markets/Churches 9:22 - The Bible Sexual Immorality Debate 25:11 - Mike's Corner: International Students on Campus and Trump 40:00 - Taylor Swift 45:54 - End Credits

Elite universities are trying something new, or maybe not so new. To attract more conservative faculty, they're adopting diversity strategies once used to support marginalized communities. So now that DEI is working for the right, is it still "woke"? Plus, fake Pope quotes are everywhere. Why is everyone trying to make the new Pope say what they want to hear? And in other news: a plantation burns, prom has officially lost its mind, and Producer Mike is in need of some friends. 0:00 - Theme Song 2:11 - Big Budget Proms 14:18 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238 15:40 - Fake Pope Quotes 25:18 - DEI for Conservatives 39:51 - The Plantation Fire 47:12 - End Credits

Author and mother of six, Katie Blackburn joins Esau for a conversation around single parenting, disability, and faith. Katie shares her experience raising a son with severe autism, the grief and grace that come with it, and how the church has responded, sometimes with welcome, other times with unintentional exclusion. Together, they explore why single parents and families affected by disability often feel unseen in church spaces, and what communities can do to change that. They also talk about Katie's new children's book The Very Best Baseball Game, inspired by a local disability league, and how stories can help us better understand diversity, empathy, and belonging. 0:00 - Show Starts 2:15 - Mount Rushmore of Family Films 7:55 - Single Motherhood 10:42 - Writing as Therapy 18:09 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238 19:21 - Church with Single People 24:28 - The Very Best Baseball Game 33:20 - What Can Churches Do for Disabled Children? 42:38 - End Credits

Why does everything feel like a reboot? In this episode, Esau is joined by producer Mike and historian Malcolm Foley for a wide-ranging conversation on the current state of American pop culture. From promising films like Sinners and Thunderbolts to the creative fatigue behind endless reboots and auto-tuned algorithms, they explore whether we're stuck in a cycle of stagnation and cynicism, and why Beyoncé's country album might provide a glimmer of hope for the future of the pop culture industry. 0:00 - Show Starts 0:45 - Theme Song 2:55 - Uninformed Takes on Ryan Coogler's Sinners 10:16 - Movies with Anit-Christian Elements? 18:16 - Worst Pop Culture Era 26:15 - How in-Person Classes Change Things 33:55 - Revitalization of Pop Culture 47:15 - End Credits

Everyone needs a life coach sometimes and Esau is here to play the role. In today's episode, he answers the internet's questions about friendship, marriage, calling, AI, church, and, yes, the ethics of eating your kid's leftovers. Joined by Producer Mike and Holy Post Community Coordinator Emerson, the trio tackles everything from existential crises to the proper number of slices you're allowed to take from a pie. Whether you're wondering how to make friends as a tired parent or if your marriage is weird because you don't fight, Esau's got takes, and lots of them. 0:00 - Theme Song 2:10 - Are Leftovers Fair Game? 5:32 - A.I. and Writing Careers 9:50 - Adult Friendships 17:35 - A Marriage with No Fights? 21:45 - Sponsor - Northern Seminary - Through Taste of Northern, you can experience the richness of a theological education for free, with leading New Testament scholars. Visit https://www.seminary.edu/taste to join a class today! 23:08 - Unfulfilling Job 35:18 - Is four "a few?" 37:45 - Church Disappointment 47:00 - End Credits

When most people think of the Apostle Paul, they picture a guy who cares more about doctrine and judgment than love. But what if I told you that the guy who wrote the most famous chapter on love in the Bible actually built his whole theology around it? Esau McCaulley talks with New Testament scholar Nijay Gupta about his new book The Affections of Christ and why Paul might be the Bible's most misunderstood writer. They explore what Paul really says about love, how emotion theory helps us read the Bible better, and why recovering Paul's tender side could help the church in a time of outrage, division, and burnout. Also, whatever happened to Ned Flanders? 0:00 - Theme Song 2:03 - Last Time Your Church Made You Feel Loved 7:10 - Paul and Love? 13:50 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238 14:50 - Sponsor - Fabric by Gerber Life - Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at https://www.meetfabric.com/ESAU 17:00 - The Bible's Emotional! 27:50 - Covenant vs. Court 40:04 - Was He Rehabilitating Paul's Image? 49:32 - End Credits The Affections of Christ Jesus: Love at the Heart of Paul's Theology by NIjay Gupta: https://a.co/d/82LsTS0 Paul and the Language of Faith by Nijay Gupta: https://a.co/d/bROX4lx My Hill to Die On - In-N-Out Burger is Overrated: https://www.patreon.com/posts/my-hill-to-die-n-125861271

Why do some successful people inspire us while others ignite our outrage? Esau is joined by John Onwuchekwa to unpack our complicated relationship with wealth, celebrity, and privilege. From Katy Perry and her trip to space, to Deon Sanders' son, Shedeur Sanders' jersey retirement controversy, we explore what our inconsistent reactions reveal about ourselves and what we prioritize. Also, we introduce a brand new segment - Low Stakes Conspiracy Theories. Mike wonders if Stevie Wonder is actually blind and John is just asking if we actually went to the moon... 0:00 - Theme Song 0:34 - Low Stakes Conspiracy Theories 9:56 - Going to Space 19:56 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238 33:35 - Fantastic Four Trailer 48:12 - End Credits We Go On by John Onwuchekwa: https://a.co/d/5BRpREP

What if the resurrection isn't just a matter of faith—but of history? In this special Holy Week episode, Esau McCaulley sits down with New Testament scholar Craig Keener to explore the historical evidence for Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, Rome's brutal use of the cross, and why the earliest witnesses to the empty tomb were women. They also reflect on the personal and political meaning of the cross, and how the resurrection reshapes our understanding of suffering, hope, and what it means to be human. 0:00 - Theme Song 11:11 - Crucifixion in the Ancient World 20:28 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238 25:25 - The Woman and the Empty Tomb 35:00 - Romans and Afterworld Belief 40:50 - The Importance of the Crown of Thorns 44:46 - End Credits

DEI is all over the news right now. The Right hates it and the Left idolizes it, but what if there was a different way to approach the controversial topic? Esau McCaulley is joined by writer and cultural commentator Marie Beecham for a candid conversation about what happens when DEI and antiracism efforts go off the rails—and what it looks like to chart a better path forward. They talk about Marie's journey through progressive anti-racism, her disillusionment with parts of the movement, and how her faith shaped a more nuanced, hopeful approach. Want to hear more from Marie? Listen to her podcast, Know Better Do Better. https://mariebeecham.com/podcast 0:00 - Theme Song 13:00 - Faith and Racial Justice 20:06 - Sponsor - Northern Seminary - Through Taste of Northern, you can experience the richness of a theological education for free, with leading New Testament scholars. Visit https://www.seminary.edu/taste to join a class today! 22:10 - Ignoring Relevancy 39:25 - DEI 46:50 - Moment of Cultural Shame 52:05 - End Credits

Esau, Justin Giboney, and Tish Harrison Warren explore the recent Target boycott led by Black church leaders during Lent and what it reveals about how Christians think (or don't think) about money. They unpack the role of ethical spending, the challenges of discipleship in a convenience-driven culture, and whether the Church should be speaking more directly about where and how we spend. Along the way: the Barbie Movie is Christian, nature is good, and Lebron broke Esau's heart. Holy Post Plus: Esau McCaulley on Podcast on Negative World: https://www.patreon.com/posts/125787958/ 0:00 - Theme Song 3:13 - Barbie is a Christian Movie? 8:35 - The Target boycott 17:35 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238 22:56 - Marvin Sapp and Tithing 39:08 - Lebron broke Esau's heart 43:35 - End Credits

Sarita Lyons is here to tell us about her book, Church Girl. She and Esau talk about her journey, from how she was pulled from her faith to what brought her back. She explains why she wrote a book specifically about being a Black Christian woman and why that specificity matters. And, this week in Holy Sports, should there be spaces where you can't discuss race and politics? 0:00 - Sponsor - Fabric by Gerber Life - Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at https://www.meetfabric.com/ESAU 2:00 - Theme Song 3:31 - Are You Washed, Church Girl Edition 10:15 - Can You Separate Accomplishments from Race? 18:52 - Church Girl and Coming Back to Jesus 38:25 - Favorite chapter of Church Girl 47:53 - End Credits Church Girl: A Gospel Vision to Encourage and Challenge Black Christian Women by Sarita T. Lyons: https://a.co/d/5zt4gfM

LeBron James made headlines for confronting ESPN's Stephen A. Smith after criticism of his son, Bronny. Esau and Malcolm Foley unpack the moment and ask: What's a parent's role in their child's success, and when does helping become too much? They also explore the growing backlash against empathy and wrestle with how we should use power and privilege for the good of others. Plus, in our new "Freezing Cold Takes" segment, we admit seasonal depression is real… and maybe soccer is actually good? 0:34 - Show Begins 1:20 - Freezing Cold Takes 6:05 - Holy Sports 17:52 - The Sin of Empathy Book 26:27 - Is This a Real Problem? 38:45 - Our Moment of Cultural Shame 44:14 - End Credits

The internet has become an angry place, but how did it get here and is there any fixing it? Esau is joined by Hannah Anderson and Hannah King to unpack why everyone on the timeline seems ready to fight, how rage has become its own online currency, and whether we're all just really, really lonely. Also, Esau may or may not have tried a social media experiment that has now turned into an ethical crisis. Rolling Stones Article on Rage Bait: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/what-is-rage-bait-influencers-making-people-angry-1234976621/

Goodbye Billy Graham and Tim Keller. Hello...um...well, we're not sure. Esau McCaulley is joined by Justin Giboney and Tish Harrison Warren to discuss whether Christianity still has a public face, or if the era of unifying spiritual leaders is over. They explore the rise of social media influencers in faith spaces, why young people may be returning to church, and whether the church is fairly represented in the media. Plus, they share why there's still reason for hope, even in a time of overwhelming bad news. - Sponsor - Fabric by Gerber Life - Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at https://www.meetfabric.com/ESAU

For too long, the history of Black Christianity in America has been told in incomplete or misleading ways. Esau sits down with theologian and author Walter Strickland to discuss his new book, Swing Low: A History of Black Christianity in the United States. They explore the theological foundations of the Black church, the overlooked figures who shaped its legacy, and why its story is about more than just politics. Swing Low, volume 1: A History of Black Christianity in the United States by Walter Strickland - https://a.co/d/0Q4YUJr Sponsor - Fabric by Gerber Life - Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family - www.meetfabric.com/ESAU

What really happened at the Council of Nicaea? Did Constantine force Christians to declare Jesus as God? Was the Bible invented there? And why does the Nicene Creed still matter today? Esau McCaulley sits down with Dr. George Kalantzis, Professor of Theology at Wheaton College, to clear up the biggest misconceptions about Nicaea, the divinity of Christ, and the role of the early church in shaping Christian belief. They also discuss why the early Romans thought Christianity was too "soft," and how the church resisted the empire.

What's it like being married to someone the internet loves to hate? Esau McCaulley sits down with Nancy French (wife of David French) and Jonathan Warren (husband of Tish Harrison Warren) to talk about love, marriage, and surviving the chaos of public life. From meeting their spouses in unexpected ways to navigating online backlash, they share candid stories, hilarious moments, and hard-won wisdom on commitment, faith, and keeping your sanity when strangers have opinions about your relationship. Plus, a deep dive into romantic comedies, an impromptu marriage advice segment, and a surprise cameo from Esau's wife, Mandy.

For years, we've been told that racism is about hate. But what if it's actually about money? Like… a lot of money? Esau McCaulley sits down with Dr. Malcolm Foley—historian, author, and expert on racial violence—to break down how greed, not just racism, has been running the show all along. From lynchings as economic control to modern capitalism's obsession with exploitation, we follow the money and ask: Why does nobody preach about greed? What did Ida B. Wells figure out that we keep ignoring? And how did Frederick Douglass have better jokes about injustice than we do now? Anti-Greed Gospel: Why the Love of Money Is the Root of Racism and How the Church Can Create a New Way Forward by Malcolm Foley: https://a.co/d/aMG5CNy

Jackie Hill Perry pulled off the rare creative hat trick—poet, rapper, Bible teacher—and then walked away from music at her peak. Why? And why is she back now? We get into it: the tension between influence and integrity, why theology and justice aren't enemies, and how hip-hop can be a tool for discipleship. Plus, a game of "Bar Exam" where Jackie tries (and sometimes fails) to remember her own lyrics.

When disaster strikes, what should Christians do? Esau sits down with Jamie Aten, a disaster relief expert, and the Blanchard Chair of Humanitarian and Disaster Leadership at Wheaton College. They talk about the devastating wildfires in California, how climate change and policy decisions are making disasters worse, and why churches play a crucial role in relief efforts. List of Ways to Contribute: https://www.holypost.com/post/ways-to-contribute-to-la-fire-relief

What happens when a Korean drama holds up a mirror to the world? Esau sits down with Cultural Critic, Rebecca Sun to talk about Squid Game—the Netflix phenomenon that just released its second season. Esau and Rebecca break down how the show's brutal, beautifully shot narrative forces us to wrestle with big questions: What is the show actually saying about capitalism? What happens when art critiques its own existence? And what does Squid Game's creator really want us to take away from all the chaos? Rebecca Sun's Articles: There's a Reason 'Squid Game' Hit a Global Nerve" https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/04/opinion/squid-game-season-2-essential-twist.html 'Squid Game' Returns: Inside Netflix's Darker, Terrifyingly Relevant Season 2: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/squid-game-season-two-creator-lee-jung-jae-interview-1236058780/

Denzel Washington was recently baptized and now believes he's been called to ministry. How does he compare to other celebrity Christians and do we expect too much, or not enough from the most famous believers? Also, Esau talks about a recent CT article on family estrangement drawing from his own personal experience. How do we follow the commandment to honor our mother and father when we are cut off from them? Christianity Today article on Estrangement: https://www.christianitytoday.com/2024/11/estrangement-parents-love-carrie-mckean/

Esau is joined by Justin Giboney and Tish Harrison Warren to look back at the major religious, cultural, and political stories of 2024. From the impact of the election and the rise of AI in churches to surprising shifts in church demographics and the ongoing challenges of political polarization, the conversation dives deep into what shaped the church this year.

Esau is joined by fellow Wheaton professors, Emily McGowin and Timothy Larson to talk about the origins of some of our favorite Christmas traditions and why Christians should fully embrace celebrating all 12 days of Christmas.

Why do we read the Bible? What are the best practices to interpret it? And how does the way we approach scripture shape who we become? Kevin Vanhoozer joins Esau to try to answer these questions as they discuss his most recent book, Mere Christian Hermeneutics. They discuss CS Lewis' influence on the book and why there is a difference between reading the Bible literally and literalistically Mere Christian Hermeneutics: Transfiguring What It Means to Read the Bible Theologically: https://a.co/d/fLINdN9 Russell Moore's Book List: https://www.russellmoore.com/2024/12/11/my-favorite-books-of-2024-2/

New York Times film critic Alissa Wilkinson, joins the show to talk about her journey to becoming a movie reviewer, the best films of 2024, and what makes a movie truly great. Esau and Alissa also dive into their favorite Christmas movies and the state of religious films in the industry today.

Esau sits down with Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt to discuss her latest book, The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostles Can Teach the Church Today. Together, they explore the fascinating history and theology surrounding Mary Magdalene, dismantling misconceptions about her past and highlighting her role as a model disciple and preacher. Along the way, the conversation touches on spiritual warfare, women in ministry, and the importance of retrieving overlooked stories from church history. The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostles Teaches the Church Today: https://a.co/d/6JqNrh2

It's Thanksgiving, and we're serving up a special holiday edition of The Esau McCaulley Podcast! First, Esau, Kaitlyn Schiess, and Skye Jethani go head-to-head in a Thanksgiving food draft to create the ultimate feast. Then, Esau and Producer Mike dig into your questions, tackling how to lovingly disagree with others, a time when Esau admitted he was wrong, what Jesus meant when he said he came not to bring peace, but a sword, and Esau's hot take on turkey.

Mike Cosper joins Esau to talk about Trump's cabinet picks—Dr. Oz? Matt Gaetz? These picks are more controversial than past presidential cabinet picks and show a bit of where the administration's priorities lie. He also breaks down the big ideas in his book, The Church in Dark Times. The Church in Dark Times: Understanding and Resisting the Evil That Seduced the Evangelical Movement by Mike Cosper: https://a.co/d/avuGHsI

Ever wonder what a hip hop beef can teach us about disagreements in the church? Esau McCaulley sits down with friends Malcolm Foley and Justin Giboney to dig into the Kendrick Lamar vs. Drake saga and how it actually mirrors some of our own church conflicts. They chat about when disagreements are just for fun (LeBron vs. MJ) and when they go deeper, revealing what we truly believe. From handling low-stakes beefs to learning how to disagree without tearing each other apart, they dive into how conflict can help us grow, and maybe even bring us closer together.

Trump Won. Are we surprised? How did it happen? What does this say about the Democratic party? Where do we go from here? Esau, Justin Giboney, and Michael Wear give their thoughts on the election and what this'll mean for Christians.

In this Halloween special, Esau teams up with Kaitlyn Schiess and Emily McGowin for a deep dive into the mysteries and controversies of October 31st. Is Halloween too pagan for Christians, or can it actually be a way to mock and confront evil in a deeply faithful way? And why do some people shun haunted houses and horror movies, while Kaitlyn finds them thrilling—and even theological? Plus, a fierce debate over the best Halloween candy, and a shocking discovery: Esau's childhood nightmare, Freddy Krueger, might be closer than he ever imagined.

Former NFL running back, Matt Forte, and his wife Danielle Forte sit down with Esau talk about the challenges of balancing professional athletics with faith, marriage, and family life. Matt reflects on his NFL career, the pressures of performing on the field, and how his faith guided him through the highs and lows. Danielle shares her journey of finding her identity beyond being a "trophy wife," discussing the unique challenges faced by spouses of professional athletes and how her relationship with Christ kept her grounded. They also talk about their children's book, My Hair Can, inspired by their daughter's experience with racism and is an encouraging reminder for young readers about loving their hair, respecting differences, and celebrating their God-given uniqueness. My Hair Can - https://www.amazon.com/My-Hair-Can-Matt-Fort%C3%A9/dp/1496480899

Esau sits down with Lisa Fields, CEO of the Jude 3 Project, to explore the complex relationship between faith, logic, and emotion. Together, they discuss how apologetics has evolved beyond purely intellectual arguments, how we're often less rational than we think, and why understanding the emotional roots of belief is crucial in today's world. Lisa also shares insights from her own life and how our own stories of pain can become a powerful source of encouragement for others facing similar struggles. When Faith Disappoints: The Gap Between What We Believe and What We Experience by Lisa Fields: https://a.co/d/bqc1Cw9

Esau sits down with friends Jonathan Warren Pagan, rector of Emmanuel Anglican Church, and Kimberly Deckel, executive pastor of Church of the Cross. They dive into the complexities of multiracial identity within the church, exploring how churches can better serve multiracial families and create genuinely welcoming spaces. The conversation touches on the unique challenges multiracial individuals face, the politics of identity surrounding public figures like Kamala Harris, and the importance of cultural curiosity in faith communities.

Esau McCaulley sits down with Grammy-winning artist Lecrae for a candid conversation about his career, faith, and the personal challenges of living in the public eye. Reflecting on how his music has evolved over the years, Lecrae opens up about the journey that has shaped him both spiritually and professionally. The two discuss everything from Kendrick Lamar's and Simone Biles' unexpected shoutout to navigating criticism from fans and the church alike. Lecrae also delves into the pressures of creating music while wrestling with faith in a secular world and how he now sees himself as a "hybrid" between two cultures.

In this inaugural episode of The Esau McCaulley Podcast, Esau is joined by Nancy French and Ameen Hudson for a conversation on sports rivalries, identity, and the power of narratives. From the WNBA rivalry of Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese to iconic NBA players like Magic and Bird, the group explores how trash talk and competition shape perceptions, and the way political and racial dynamics impacts how athletes are viewed. Then, Nancy and Ameen open up about the cultural and political narratives they've found themselves trapped in. Nancy shares her journey from being deeply embedded in the Republican Party to facing rejection for challenging its current direction, while Ameen reflects on navigating the expectations placed on him as a Black man who cares about justice, but also holds socially conservative views. Also, is Nancy French the greatest pickleball trash talker of all time?