The Divorce and Beyond® Podcast with Susan Guthrie, Esq.

Two of Susan Guthrie's greatest passions, divorce and family law, and the world of AI, come together in this episode, and the result is something truly powerful. Post-separation abuse is something far too many people experience, but the legal system still struggles to understand. Many people assume that once someone leaves an abusive relationship, the danger is over. But in reality, the abuse often changes form. It can show up as litigation abuse, weaponized communication, or ongoing coercive control that leaves survivors feeling like they are still walking on eggshells, even in family court. Susan is joined by Anne Wintemute, co-founder and CEO of AimeeSays, an AI tool built specifically to support survivors of relationship abuse. AimeeSays helps survivors document their experiences, identify patterns of coercive control, and organize their story in a way that professionals and courts can actually understand. This is the bridge that has been missing. What You Will Learn Why the legal system tends to focus on isolated incidents rather than patterns of behavior, and why that gap can be so damaging for survivors How documenting patterns of coercive control, rather than individual incidents, can change the way a story is received in court Why survivors often struggle to tell their story clearly, and how trauma directly impacts testimony How AI technology is helping survivors organize their experiences and communicate what they have lived through in ways that courts and professionals can actually understand Why legal professionals need to know about tools like AimeeSays and how it can help them help their clients Golden Nuggets Leaving an abusive relationship does not always end the abuse. For many survivors, the abuse simply changes form, often showing up as litigation abuse, coercive control, and weaponized communication during and after divorce. One of the greatest challenges survivors face in family court is that the system tends to look for isolated incidents, while abuse often exists as a pattern of behavior over time. Being able to document those patterns clearly can make an enormous difference in how a story is understood. Technology may finally be helping to bridge that gap. Tools like AimeeSays are helping survivors organize their experiences, recognize patterns, and communicate what they have been living through in ways that courts and professionals can better understand. Divorce & Beyond Listeners Special Offer From Aimee Says: Visit the website: http://www.aimeesays.com - and use code "Guthrie30" for two free months of Aimee at aimeesays.com. Resources Mentioned in This Episode Hello Divorce Hello Divorce is a modern platform designed to support people before, during, and beyond divorce. The platform provides legal information, tools, and access to professionals who help individuals navigate divorce more thoughtfully and constructively. Explore resources created specifically for Divorce & Beyond listeners: HelloDivorce.com/Susan Free Resource: The Post-Separation Abuse Self-Assessment and Pattern Recognition Checklist If you or someone you know is navigating life after leaving an abusive relationship, Susan has created a resource to help you start making sense of what you have been experiencing. The Post-Separation Abuse Self-Assessment and Pattern Recognition Checklist is designed for survivors who are trying to identify patterns of coercive control and post-separation abuse, something that is honestly hard to see clearly when you are in the middle of it. Download the free Divorce Clarity Starter Guide here or on the website at: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/latest-episode Special Offer from Yumiyu YUMIYU Jewelry is Susan’s favorite source for meaningful, handcrafted jewelry designed to empower women and celebrate individuality. Each piece is made with care, using high-quality materials like real gold and vermeil, and is water-resistant, non-tarnish, and hypoallergenic. During difficult times, like divorce, wearing a symbol of hope or protection—such as a hamsa or an evil eye—can be a comforting reminder to keep the faith and stay strong. As a special gift to my listeners, YUMIYU Jewelry is offering 20% off your purchase! Use the code "BEYOND" at checkout to claim your discount. Explore their stunning collection at yumiyujewelry.com and find your perfect piece today! Link: https://divorcebeyond.com/YUMIYU Code: “BEYOND” for 20% off! About the Guest Anne Wintemute is the Co-Founder and CEO of Aimee Says, the Al assistant for victims and survivors of relationship abuse. She is a fierce champion for the rights of survivors and children, and systems that hold perpetrators accountable. Prior to working with survivors, Anne founded and directed an elementary school that became a model for micro schools across the United States. In her spare time, she enjoys urban homesteading with her family in Denver, Colorado Website: http://www.aimeesays.com - D&B Listeners, use code Guthrie30 for two f

When most people think about divorce, they picture the legal process. They imagine paperwork, lawyers, and courtrooms. But the reality is that divorce often begins long before any legal step is taken. In this episode, Susan Guthrie sits down with Erin Levine, founder of Hello Divorce, to talk about the stage of divorce that almost no one talks about: the years of uncertainty before a decision is ever made. For many people, the hardest part of divorce is not the legal process itself. It is the emotional limbo that happens beforehand. The sleepless nights. The constant questioning. The fear about what life might look like on the other side. Susan and Erin explore why so many people spend years wrestling with the decision to leave a marriage, what happens emotionally during that time, and how having the right information and support can dramatically change the experience. If you are currently wondering whether to stay or go, this episode will help you understand that what you are feeling is incredibly common and that there are ways to move forward with more clarity and less fear. What You Will Learn • Why many people contemplate divorce for three to five years before taking action • Why the emotional uncertainty before divorce can be the most exhausting stage • How lack of information often keeps people stuck in limbo • Why most divorces do not need to become courtroom battles • How mediation and other structured processes can help families move through divorce more constructively • Why preparation and clarity can dramatically change divorce outcomes Key Takeaways from This Conversation The Hidden Stage of Divorce Divorce often begins years before anyone files paperwork. Many people spend long periods quietly struggling with whether their marriage can be saved or whether it is time to move on. Living in Uncertainty Is Emotionally Draining The constant question of whether to stay or leave can take an enormous emotional toll. By the time someone actually moves forward with divorce, they may already feel mentally and emotionally exhausted. Information Creates Clarity Fear thrives in uncertainty. When people begin learning about their options and understanding the divorce process, they are able to make decisions from a place of knowledge rather than panic. Divorce Does Not Have to Be a War Many couples are able to resolve their divorce through mediation or negotiated agreements outside of court. Understanding these options can significantly reduce conflict and stress. Golden Nuggets from This Episode • Divorce itself is often not what breaks people. It is the years of uncertainty leading up to the decision. • Many people live in emotional limbo for years before they ever speak to a professional about divorce. • When people have access to information and structured support, they are far more likely to resolve their divorce outside of court. • Preparation and clarity allow people to approach divorce more thoughtfully and with less fear. • Divorce does not have to be a battle. With the right guidance, it can be a transition toward a healthier future. Resources Mentioned in This Episode Hello Divorce Hello Divorce is a modern platform designed to support people before, during, and beyond divorce. The platform provides legal information, tools, and access to professionals who help individuals navigate divorce more thoughtfully and constructively. Explore resources created specifically for Divorce & Beyond listeners: HelloDivorce.com/Susan Free Resource: Divorce Clarity Starter Guide If you are currently in the stage of wondering whether divorce might be the right path, Susan has created a resource to help you begin thinking through the process with greater clarity. The Divorce Clarity Starter Guide is designed for people who are in the early stages of considering divorce and want to better understand their options before making major decisions. Inside the guide you will find: • Questions to help you clarify what is really happening in your relationship • Practical steps to take before making legal decisions • Insight into different divorce paths, including mediation • Guidance to help you approach this transition thoughtfully rather than reactively Download the free Divorce Clarity Starter Guide here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/latest-episode Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best, inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury About the Guest Erin’s innovative, disruptive approach to how Americans interact with the law make her both a loved and feared force in the legal world. With her groundbreaking divorce navigator platform, she’s revolution

When people talk about gray divorce, the conversation usually focuses on the couple: finances, retirement, and starting over later in life. But there is another group deeply affected by these late in life separations that often goes overlooked: adult children. The divorce rate for couples over 50 has more than doubled in recent decades, and as more long term marriages end later in life, families are navigating a transition many never expected. Even when children are fully grown, the divorce of their parents can reshape family dynamics, create loyalty conflicts, and disrupt long standing family roles. In this episode of the Divorce & Beyond Podcast, Susan Guthrie welcomes back Carol Hughes, co author of the groundbreaking book Home Will Never Be the Same Again. Carol first joined the podcast in 2021 with co author Bruce Fredenburg to discuss their research on adult children of gray divorce. She returns to share updated insights from both research and real world experiences about how adult children are affected when their parents divorce later in life. Together, Susan and Carol explore why gray divorce can be more emotionally disruptive for adult children than many parents realize, the common mistakes parents unintentionally make during this transition, and the powerful ways families can protect relationships even as the family structure changes. This is an essential conversation for anyone navigating divorce after 50, adult children trying to understand their parents’ separation, or professionals working with families where gray divorce is reshaping the entire family system. What You’ll Learn in This Episode • Why gray divorce affects the entire family, not just the couple • How loyalty conflicts can place adult children in painful and inappropriate roles • Why feeling unheard is one of the leading causes of estrangement between parents and adult children after divorce • How empathy, healthy boundaries, and thoughtful communication can help protect family relationships Additional Resources If you want to explore this topic further, be sure to read the companion blog article for this episode on the Divorce & Beyond website. You can also download Susan’s practical guide: How to Tell Your Adult Children You Are Getting Divorced: A Conversation Planning Guide This supportive resource helps parents prepare for one of the most difficult conversations families face during gray divorce, with insights on what adult children often experience, what to say, what to avoid, and how to approach the conversation with empathy and care. Visit the blog page for this episode at DivorceAndBeyondPod.com to read the article and download the guide. About the Guest Carol Hughes holds her doctorate in Clinical Psychology, achieving both summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa honors. She is also a two-time Fulbright Scholar. In 2003, Carol was a co-founder of Collaborative Divorce Solutions of Orange County, an interdisciplinary practice group of divorce professionals dedicated to respectful, peaceful divorce solutions for families. In her practice in Laguna Hills, CA, as a California licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and family-focused divorce professional, for more than thirty years, she has assisted hundreds of divorcing families as a therapist, child and co-parenting specialist, divorce coach, and mediator. Connect with Carol Hughes Website: http://divorcepeacemaking.com Book: Home Will Never Be the Same Again: A Guide for Adult Children of Gray Divorce https://amzn.to/4blt1jx Carol’s Workbook for Parents Going Through Gray Divorce: https://divorcepeacemaking.com/register-for-a-free-gift/ Episodes Mentioned: Gray Divorce: What It Takes. What It Gives Back. With Maryjane Sweet Special Episode Resource: Gray Divorce and the Impact on Adult Children Today's episode has a companion blog article where Susan breaks down the key insights on gray divorce and the impact on adult children. Read it and share it with someone who may need it at divorceandbeyondpod.com. Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise h

Time is supposed to heal everything. But for the millions of people navigating divorce after betrayal, that promise falls flat. They're functioning, managing the kids, showing up to work, doing all the things, and still carrying the weight of something that happened years, sometimes decades, ago. Fine, it turns out, is not the same as healed. In this powerful episode, Susan Guthrie welcomes back Dr. Debi Silber, founder of the Post Betrayal Transformation Institute and author of the new book Unstuck:The Practitioner's Guide to Moving Betrayal Clients from Survival to Transformation. Together, they unpack why so many people who have experienced betrayal, whether infidelity, financial deception, or the shattering of expectations that comes with divorce itself, get trapped in a cycle that looks like survival but feels like anything but living. Dr. Debi's research, drawn from over 100,000 people tested, reveals that healing from betrayal is not just possible. It is predictable. This conversation is for anyone who has ever asked, "Why am I still not over this?" Whether you are in the middle of a divorce, just discovering a betrayal, or years out and still feeling its grip, the lessons in this episode apply. It is also essential listening for the legal professionals, coaches, therapists, and mediators who want to understand what is truly going on beneath the surface. What You’ll Learn Betrayal in divorce is not just about infidelity. It is a collapse of trust on every level How Post Betrayal Syndrome keeps people physically, mentally, and emotionally stuck long after the relationship has ended The five proven, predictable stages of betrayal recovery and why most people unknowingly park in Stage Three Why self-trust is the real wound of betrayal and how rebuilding it through boundaries, intuition, and small kept promises is where healing actually begins How the Window of Willingness reveals whether the person who betrayed you is genuinely doing the work, and what that means for your path forward Why transformation does not begin until Stage Four and how Dr. Debi's new book Unstuck gives practitioners a roadmap for guiding betrayal clients all the way through, not just to fine About the Guest Dr. Debi Silber, Founder and CEO of The PBT (Post Betrayal Transformation) Institute and National Forgiveness Day, is an award-winning speaker and 2-time #1 International bestselling author. Her podcast, From Betrayal to Breakthrough, ranks in the top 1.5% globally. Her groundbreaking PhD study revealed 3 discoveries that completely revolutionized our understanding of betrayal-and how to achieve full healing physically, mentally, and emotionally. Creator of the world's #1 betrayal recovery certification for life, business, health, and leadership coaches, Dr. Debi equips practitioners globally with her evidence-based framework so they can deliver exponentially better results with their existing clients. Featured on FOX, CBS, The Dr. Oz Show, and TEDx (twice), she equips practitioners with the missing framework-helping them move from uncertainty to confidence, from using general tools that keep clients stuck to specialized approaches that create genuine transformation. Connect with Dr. Debi Silber Website: http://thepbtinstitute.com Book: Unstuck: The Practitioner's Guide to Moving Betrayal Clients from Survival to Transformation Special Episode Resource: Rebuilding Self-Trust After Betrayal, A Guided Workbook If this episode resonated and you are ready to start moving from stuck to unstuck, download Susan's free guided workbook, Rebuilding Self-Trust After Betrayal. It walks you step by step through where self-trust was shaken, how to reset your boundaries, and how to begin the deliberate work of healing. Download the guide here: https://6091f38a-6f36-42ef-8f98-d1cf174bdc28.lovableproject.com/episode/b2a06e0a-b3e1-42f6-b9b8-2f1889c9577c#resource Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, amo

Divorce does not always change living arrangements overnight. Many couples file for divorce, expect everything to shift, and then walk back into the same home… with the same routines… and often even more tension than before. Living under the same roof after deciding a marriage is over can quickly become emotionally volatile if it is not handled intentionally. That is why Susan Guthrie welcomes back divorce and co-parenting coach Jenny Stevens. Together, they break down what it really takes to live under the same roof while divorcing, including how to create boundaries, communicate without escalating, and protect your emotional stability during a phase that can feel like navigating a daily minefield. This conversation explores the practical realities of cohabiting during divorce and why structure, communication, and intentional boundaries are essential to getting through this transitional period without creating additional conflict or long-term damage. What You’ll Learn Living together during divorce becomes more manageable when you accept it as a practical reality and approach it with intentional planning, clear communication, and emotional awareness. Structure protects stability by creating clear boundaries, defined household expectations, and consistent communication that reduces conflict. Shifting mentally from partners to roommates helps lower emotional intensity and makes daily interactions more functional and less reactive. Small triggers are less likely to escalate when boundaries are clear and communication stays respectful and intentional. Viewing this phase as temporary helps you stay focused on moving through it with stability and clarity instead of creating unnecessary long term damage. About the Guest Jenny Stevens is a divorce and life transition coach known as The Champion of Change. Based in Chicago and working with clients nationwide, she helps individuals navigate divorce, co-parenting, and major life transitions with clarity and confidence. With a Master’s in Professional Counseling, advanced training in conflict management and communication, and mediation training from Northwestern University, Jenny brings both clinical insight and real-world strategy to her work. She specializes in helping clients establish healthy boundaries, improve communication, and move through change in a way that protects their well-being and their children. WATCH THE EPISOE ON YOUTUBE Connect with Jenny Stevens Website: http://www.jennystevenscoach.com Other Episodes Mentioned: What a Tsunami of Hard Times Taught Jenny Stevens About Surfing Life’s Changes Co-Parenting Under One Roof: 6 Tips to Make it Work - Part One - from Parenting Expert, Christina McGhee Co-Parenting Under One Roof: 6 Tips to Make it Work - Part Two - from Parenting Expert, Christina McGhee Special Episode Resource: The Under One Roof Divorce Survival Guide If you are navigating divorce while still living under the same roof, you do not have to figure this out alone. Access the companion blog and downloadable guide specifically for this phase called The Under One Roof Divorce Survival Guide. Inside, you’ll find the seven ground rules we discussed in this episode, along with practical worksheets you can use immediately to clarify boundaries, reset expectations, and reduce unnecessary conflict in your home. This guide will help you create structure, protect your peace, and move through this chapter with intention. Read the blog and download the guide here. https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/latest-episode Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at