The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

We’re back for Part 2 of my two-episode conversation with Adam Grant and Simon Sinek. If you haven’t listened to Part 1, I suggest doing that first, because it provides the framework for the three big topics we cover here: (1) quiet quitting — what it is, what it isn’t, what we think about it; (2) engagement — how you define it, how you foster it; and (3) boundaries — not just setting them, but also respecting them. We all come at things from different perspectives and different experiences, but I really consider both of these guys friends and mentors, and I respect and admire their work. I took so many notes — they challenged me to rethink some things, and I’m still processing others. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What’s happening in the workplace right now? In this first of two episodes with Adam Grant and Simon Sinek, we talk about what we are seeing in organizations across the world — and there are definitely some trends that emerge. And so much learning. We talk about disconnects between what we know from data and what we’re seeing practiced. We also talk about what high performers actually look like and the most meaningful way to succeed. Connecting with these two is the regularly scheduled gut check that I need. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with the second part of a two-part series with Erika James, PhD, and Lynn Perry Wooten, PhD, about their new book, The Prepared Leader: Emerge from Any Crisis More Resilient Than Before. In Part 1, we talked about what leaders can do today to prepare for what’s next, and in this episode, we dig into more tactical strategies. I have to say that I have lived this work, and this is real. It is not theoretical. This is about what it means to be human and look for grace and make very tough decisions while leading through a crisis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the first of a two-part series with Erika James, PhD, and Lynn Perry Wooten, PhD, about their new book, The Prepared Leader: Emerge from Any Crisis More Resilient Than Before. It’s completely tactical and has taught me so much about leading in a crisis — and unfortunately, we have not seen our last crisis. We talk about what leaders can do today to prepare for what’s next, as they add a fourth “p” to the triple bottom line framework (people, planet, and profit) for measuring a business’s performance — and that’s “preparedness.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Three weeks ago, our whole company gathered together in our offices for the first time since early March 2020. In this episode, Barrett and I reflect on how it felt to be together, what surprised us, what shifted for us, and what we’ve learned so far as our team has begun to work in the same space again for the first time in more than two years. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Kam Franklin, singer-songwriter, music producer, activist, writer, and lead singer of the Gulf Coast soul band The Suffers. You know their kick-ass song “Take Me to the Good Times” from the Dare to Lead podcast. Kam and I talk about what it means to lead a creative team and what it means to set audacious goals, to fall and fail, and the power of getting back up. Kam explains the daily conflict that bubbles up in the creative process and how normalizing that conflict helps us get to the creative magic. The joy, the expansiveness, and the soul of The Suffers are inextricably connected to the inclusivity, representation, and diversity of the band. Kam seems to never forget that joy as she leads, and it comes through in this conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you come across Ruchika Tulshyan’s new book and find yourself dismissively thinking, “Another DEI book?” you do so at your own peril — and privilege. Inclusion on Purpose: An Intersectional Approach to Creating a Culture of Belonging at Work is a transformative book. In it, Ruchika, a journalist and inclusion strategist, centers the experience of women of color and provides a framework of intentional actions — on both the individual and the organizational level — to neutralize workplace bias and foster environments that are diverse, equitable, and inclusive. As Ruchika says in her book, inclusion is the most important leadership trait today — and one that can be learned through awareness, intention, and regular practice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am talking to Dr. Linda Hill, a researcher, professor of business administration, and chair of the Leadership Initiative at Harvard Business School. She is regarded as one of the top experts on leadership and innovation, and she has done a new study on how to lead in the digital era. We talk about her findings and what leaders are wrestling with today, the qualities of a digitally mature organization, and why digital transformation is less about technology and more about people. We also talk about leading for innovation rather than leading for change. Our organization is definitely experiencing so much of this transformation, and this conversation was so clarifying as we move forward and lead with purpose. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Scott Sonenshein, a researcher, organizational psychologist, and New York Times bestselling author, about the pandemic, the racial reckoning, and work — specifically, what it means for people going to the office for the first time, or staying hybrid, or working from home. We will never be the same again after what we’ve experienced over the past couple of years, and it’s time we talk about how we’re going to rebuild moving forward. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Barrett and I have not been able to stop thinking — and talking — about an episode we did a few weeks ago with Donald Sull and Charlie Sull of CultureX: “How Toxic Work Cultures Are Driving the Great Resignation.” In that episode, we took a deep dive into an MIT Sloan Management Review article the Sulls had recently written, about what was driving the Great Resignation. In sharing their findings, they also gave us a sneak peek at a second article they had in the works, about the attributes of a toxic culture. That article has now been published, so in this episode, Barrett and I are digging into the research and talking about the five attributes of a toxic culture. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is a conversation about how a simple act of generosity can put someone on a new, groundbreaking course. I’m talking with James Rhee — acclaimed impact leader, entrepreneur, educator, investor, and goodwill strategist — about why kindness matters. He leads with a powerful combination of kindness and math and demonstrates how revenue doesn’t define our lives. We unpack the power of goodwill — which is actually an accounting term — and how it affects many other things that we need to be thinking about. He also shares a number of tools, lenses, and music we should be considering as we define what success looks like for us and our organizations. This conversation was an infusion of hope and possibility for me about the power of what we can be. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I want you to pay attention and direct your flashlight right on this podcast — you’ll understand what that means after you listen to this episode. I’m talking to Dr. Amishi Jha, a neuroscientist and the author of the bestseller Peak Mind, about attention, focus, concentration, and mindfulness — specifically how mindfulness can literally change our levels of attention. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Dr. Donald Sull and Charlie Sull about an article I came across in the MIT Sloan Management Review titled “Toxic Culture Is Driving the Great Resignation.” As we know, between April and September of 2021, more than 24 million American employees left their jobs, an all-time record. Donald and Charlie researched what’s driving the Great Resignation. It is both revealing and confirming to hear how their research connects with the work that we do with Dare to Lead, and it is exactly what we’re seeing in companies all over the world. We dig deep into the definition of toxic culture, how it shows up, and what it costs individuals and companies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking to Megan Reitz, a professor of leadership and dialogue, and John Higgins, a researcher and author, about an article they published in the MIT Sloan Management Review titled “Leading in an Age of Employee Activism.” It’s a huge topic in every organization I talk to, and I can say, as an employer and an activist — leading a team filled with organizers and activists — that this is definitely an important issue. We talk about what it takes to make a difference, to do the internal work, and to give leaders the skills to lead with advocacy in the modern workplace. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Debbie Millman — designer, author, educator, curator, brand strategist, and host of the long-running, multi-award-winning podcast Design Matters — about her new book, Why Design Matters: Conversations with the World’s Most Creative People. It’s a conversation about creativity with one of the most creative people in the business, where she answers a lot of direct questions like, What is good design? What are the politics of curation and how is it different from discernment? What gets in the way of a creative life? We also, of course, talk about shame and worthiness, and some of her answers are just incredible. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dan Pink is one of my favorite researchers and writers. In this episode, we dig into one of my least favorite feelings (but one of my best teachers): regret. In his new book, The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward, Dan shares findings from two large studies on regret. It’s fascinating. One big takeaway: We have more regrets about the things we did NOT do than the things we did do. Both Dan and regret are great teachers — you’ll be glad you listened Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back! It’s 2022, and we’re all talking about “returning to the office” at some point. There are a lot of unknowns, and it’s going to be awkward. In this episode, Barrett and I discuss how our organization is going to gather again, as well as what we are seeing in companies across the country. We talk through a few of the toughest questions, debunk some “remote working” myths, and discuss what we’ve learned over the past two years. We’re calling the return to the workplace the Great Awkward — it’s going to be weird and, at times, full-on cringey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My conversation with America Ferrera was so good that I didn’t want it to end, so here we are with the second episode with the renowned actor, director, producer, activist, and leader. We continued our discussion about the importance of integration and how transformative it can be to bring all of our identities to our leadership journey — and in the process, the conversation goes where really neither of us expected it to go. You’ll also hear that the rapid-fire questions were not so rapid, but they are deep, burning, and fire! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with America Ferrera — actor, director, producer, activist, and leader — in the first of a two-part series about leading with your whole self. I have done a lot of work with integration and leadership over the past decades, and I hadn’t heard it so clearly captured and explained as America did in this episode. Every transformational leader I’ve ever worked with refuses to compartmentalize who they are, and America has profoundly, publicly, and professionally integrated her identity into her process and her presence to create real change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. Laurie Santos is a professor of psychology and the head of Silliman Residential College at Yale University and the host of the popular podcast The Happiness Lab. We talk about her experiences with university students and how it connects with the research that I’ve done for my new book, Atlas of the Heart. We discuss how that data predicts what we can expect when we return to the workplace, as well as evidence-based strategies for how we can use this moment to create and cultivate meaningful connection at work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s Part 2 of our two-part episode with James Clear, author of Atomic Habits, which has sold more than 5 million copies worldwide and been translated into more than 50 languages. In Part 1 of our series, we talked about building systems to create habits, and in this episode, we talk about how and why habits are atomic and how to build a habit or break a habit. We also look at our environments and how we can tweak them to support the habits we want to have, and then dive in and talk about organization habits and how we create habits in teams and in organizations. I took multiple pages of notes on this memorable conversation on forming habits that last. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Even before James Clear and I met, I knew this would be a two-part series. I just had so many questions for the author of Atomic Habits, which has sold more than 5 million copies worldwide and been translated into more than 50 languages. Not surprisingly, this turned out to be exactly the type of conversation I’d anticipated. In Part 1 of our series, we talk specifically about developing identity-based habits and how we can become the architects of those habits, not the victims of them. We also talk about the intersection of his work and mine, the collective stories we make up, and how our mindsets and our systems can set us up for success. It was so meaningful to finally meet James, to hear his story, and to take in his insights into how he developed such a deep understanding of the importance of consistency over intensity when it comes to forming habits that last. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am talking with Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist who served as chair of the Social and Behavioral Science Team during the Obama administration and served as the first behavioral science adviser to the United Nations. We talk about what happens when change knocks us off our charted path. How do we get back up? How do we figure out who we are without that path? And how do we start building a new way to walk through the world? We connect on all of these questions and more in this meaningful conversation about the science behind change, how change affects our identities, and what it means for the way we live, love, and lead. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Barrett is back to talk more about trust and how we approach it at our company. We call it BRAVING trust — BRAVING is the acronym we use for the seven attributes of trust. And in Part 2 of this two-part series, we really dig into the core elements of BRAVING: boundaries, reliability, accountability, vault, integrity, nonjudgment, and generosity. We talk frankly about awareness, experiences, and hacks that we have found to be helpful in cultivating trust, and we get really personal about how all of these BRAVING elements show up in our own lives and leadership. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Barrett Guillen, chief of staff at Brené Brown Education and Research Group, is joining me to talk about trust, what trust means, and how we approach it at our company. We call it BRAVING trust — BRAVING is the acronym we use for the seven attributes of trust. We have shared this with organizations all over the world, and today, we’re going to dig into what we’ve learned about practicing BRAVING trust, what we’ve learned from teaching it, and what we’ve learned from the barriers that we often see in our training and in our practice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Liz Wiseman is an author, a researcher, and an executive adviser, and we are talking about her new book, Impact Players: How to Take the Lead, Play Bigger, and Multiply Your Impact. Liz has done research across organizations around the world, talking to managers about what impact players look like, what sets them apart, and how they contribute. With this research, she gives us language to recognize the attributes of an impact player and to grow those characteristics in our own lives to make our work and our impact more fulfilling. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Jodi-Ann Burey and Ruchika Tulshyan about imposter syndrome and the articles they have written together on the topic, including “Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome,” which is among the Harvard Business Review’s top 100 most-read articles in history. We talk about the contexts in which imposter syndrome was originally defined, as well as how it continues to be defined and experienced. We also talk about the problematic myths, required masks, and systemic mindsets connected with the term and how they directly work against creating a culture of belonging. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Charles Feltman is the author of The Thin Book of Trust: An Essential Primer for Building Trust at Work, which is based on his nearly three decades of work with individuals and teams to build, maintain, and restore trust. I have used his definitions of trust and distrust in every book I’ve written, because they are practical and actionable and, at the same time, deep and meaningful. It was important to me to dig into these definitions and explore how they play out at work, in relationships, and in our everyday lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is the second of a two-part series on feedback, and Barrett is back to take it to the next level and dig into engaged feedback with me. As you know, Barrett is chief of staff for Brené Brown Education and Research Group and one of my sisters, and together, we go through the 11 elements of the Engaged Feedback Checklist. It’s a practical tool, and we talk about the real and tangible ways it’s changed how we approach giving feedback and leading tough conversations. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is the first of a two-part series on feedback, and I’m talking with my sister Barrett Guillen, chief of staff for Brené Brown Education and Research Group, about professional feedback. We get very honest about the feedback that we have received over the years, as well as how it felt, what we’ve tried to do about it, where we slip up, and where we’ve made strides. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking to Dr. Amy Cuddy, social psychologist, bestselling author, award-winning Harvard lecturer, and expert on the behavioral science of power, presence, and prejudice. We discuss her recently published Washington Post article, “Why This Stage of the Pandemic Makes Us So Anxious,” and how working through this collective, constant pandemic flux affects us as individuals and as leaders. We also talk about developing a flux mindset and how important it is to facilitate a sense of agency as we make decisions about how we return to work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As I’m writing a book and thinking about habits that are getting in my way of being more productive, I call upon Charles Duhigg, who is a New York Times bestselling author on habits and productivity with The Power of Habit and Smarter Faster Better: The Secrets of Being Productive in Life and Business. We talk about how we are in an interesting time to think big picture about what we’re doing well and what we’d like to work on and what he believes is the “greatest productivity app” that we can all access for free. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is the second of a two-part series with Priya Parker, master facilitator, strategic adviser, and the author of The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters. We hold a weekly meeting in our organization that doesn’t seem to be serving everyone in a consistent way, so Priya helps me figure out what’s going on and why. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join me for Part 1 of a two-part series with Priya Parker on gathering together again. Priya is a master facilitator, a strategic adviser, and the author of The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters. We talk about the big and small challenges we’ll see when we return to workspaces, the need we’ll have to use our creativity and ingenuity to figure out how to be together, and the opportunity we’ll get to ask how we can be together better. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Patrice Gordon about reverse mentorship, a practice that sets up a junior team member, often a member of an underrepresented group, to mentor senior staff. Patrice did a TED talk last fall on how reverse mentorship can help create better leaders, and I loved the approach. We talk through best practices and how to set up a program that provides psychological safety for individuals and for the organization. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Doug Conant is the only former Fortune 500 CEO who is a New York Times bestselling author, a Top 50 Leadership Innovator, a Top 100 Leadership Speaker, and one of the 100 Most Influential Authors in the World. We talk about the principles and practices in the new book he co-authored with Amy Federman, The Blueprint: 6 Practical Steps to Lift Your Leadership to New Heights, as well as how to create an entourage of excellence, how to find our individual leadership stories, and how to bring those stories to life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael Bungay Stanier is the author of six books, including The Coaching Habit and The Advice Trap. We talk about taming our Advice Monsters — you know, those insatiable things that fuel our need to offer advice and answers when curiosity and good questions are way more powerful. We also share a very vulnerable, impromptu role play, where I ask him for help on a real issue that I’m struggling with at work and he models incredible coaching and curiosity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking to Dr. Angela Duckworth, professor, founder and CEO of Character Lab, and author of Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance. We dig into what grit is, but also what grit is not. We talk about taking the windy path, the danger of oversimplifying complex ideas, and why ruling out what does NOT bring you joy is part of finding what does. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Part 2 of our two-part series on daring leadership, where I unpack four more common types of armor that we use to self-protect when we’re in fear. These barriers include creating a fitting-in culture versus a belonging culture, fostering a scarcity-based culture versus modeling that we are enough and have enough, leading reactively versus leading strategically, and resisting change versus accepting and embracing change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The greatest barrier to daring leadership is not fear; the greatest barrier is armor, or how we self-protect when we’re in fear. This is Part 1 of a two-part series where I unpack the most common types of armor, including being a knower versus being a learner, tapping out of hard conversation versus skilling up and leaning in, and using shame and blame to manage others versus using accountability and empathy. Join me for a conversation that includes real examples and actionable strategies about how we can dare to lead. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode feels like a conversation with an old friend who happens to be an expert on fear, anxiety, and perfectionism. Pippa is a highly sought-after sports psychologist, a culture coach, and the author of the bestselling book Fear Less: How to Win at Life Without Losing Yourself. As the head of people and team development at the Football Association, she worked closely with the England team for the World Cup in 2018 (remember when they finally broke that penalty kick curse?). Join us as we talk about what it means to live with an open heart versus clenched fists. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dare to Lead is Unlocking Us this week. Burnout. We’re all experiencing it and we’re all desperate for a way through it. In this episode, I talk to Drs. Emily and Amelia Nagoski about what causes burnout, what it does to our bodies, and how we can move through the emotional exhaustion. This has been a game changer for me and for my family! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, Dare to Lead is Unlocking Us! Emmanuel Acho is a creator, host, and producer of Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, a web series about racism to drive open and uncomfortable dialogue. His book with the same name is a thoughtful manifesto, a mandate, and a playbook that’s both generous and full of love. We get personal, and we talk about what these important questions mean in the context of history and for culture today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Part 2 of my conversation with Dr. Susan David, author of the bestselling book Emotional Agility: Get Unstuck, Embrace Change, and Thrive in Work and Life. In Part 1, we talked about how emotional granularity and agility benefit us as leaders. This episode is another “emotions researcher extravaganza!” Susan and I talk about how to build emotionally agile teams, how to lead from a place of awareness, and the power of the choice that we can find in the space between stimulus and response. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking to Dr. Susan David, author of the bestselling book Emotional Agility: Get Unstuck, Embrace Change, and Thrive in Work and Life. This is a full-on emotion-researcher geek-out on how emotional granularity and agility benefit us as individuals and as leaders. It’s such a good conversation that we made it into two episodes, and this is Part 1. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You can’t spell podcast without tacos. I’m talking to Veronica and Miguel Garza, the co-founders of Siete Family Foods, a family-owned Mexican American food brand of heritage-inspired products. Their story is one of family, love, tenacity, and how you build a successful company that is fueled by authenticity and servant leadership to make food approved by abuelas everywhere. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s a total geek-out, nerd-fest conversation with my friend Adam Grant about his new book, Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know. Adam weaves together research and storytelling to help us build the intellectual and emotional muscle we need to stay curious enough about the world to actually change it. This is such an important book for the world we live in today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Part 2 of my conversation with Aiko Bethea, friend, colleague, and diversity, equity, and inclusion expert. We take the foundations from our first conversation and build upon them with strategic and sustainable action items that we can take to create nonreactive, intentional, accountable, and transformational change. It’s a master class in the power of integration and the importance of a learning mindset. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is a heartfelt and honest conversation with writer, creator, and former tech entrepreneur Chad Sanders on Black Magic: What Black Leaders Learned from Trauma and Triumph. Chad shares his stories and interviews from 15 leaders across industries on transformative leadership. There are critical teachings here for all of us — in fact, it’s our organization’s first group read of 2021. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join me for Part 2 of a conversation with one of my favorite thinkers and writers, Dr. Sarah Lewis. We’re talking about her book, The Rise: Creativity, the Gift of Failure, and the Search for Mastery. I first talked to Sarah on our November 30 episode about the creative process and the difference between mastery and success, but the conversation was so thought-provoking that we had to record a second episode. This time, we talk about the impact of protecting creative time and the power of surrender. We also talk about aesthetic force and the role of imagery in creating change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices