TCC Podcast #286: Loving What You Do, Changing Up your Business, and 60 Lessons for Life and Copy with Carline Anglade-Cole

The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:

The Copywriter Think Tank
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
Carline’s website 
Carline’s book
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Our first episode with Carline
Episode 65

Full Transcript:

Rob Marsh:  Back when I worked a real job and I’m putting air quotes around “real”, I used to dread Mondays. In fact, when Sunday afternoon would come along, I’d start getting that feeling of dread in my gut and just really wasn’t looking forward to work. And I think that’s a pretty common thing among people who work regular nine to five jobs. Maybe you felt it yourself in fact. But since switching to copywriting and starting my own business, I can’t recall ever feeling that Sunday dread. And I think that goes away when you truly love what you do. That’s something that we share with our guest for today’s podcast, Carline Anglade-Cole, and as you listen to what she shares, you’d probably agree that Carline is very obvious that she loves what she does. She’s excited about writing, about teaching and about sharing the lessons that she’s learned over her career as a copywriter. I get excited every time I talk to Carline. And I think that you’re going to want to stick around to hear all the great advice that she shares in this episode.

Kira Hug:  Before diving into the interview with Carline, the sponsor for this week’s episode is the Copywriter Think Tank, which is our mastermind and coaching program that helps copywriters dive deeper and really explore ideas they didn’t think were possible, and act on them. And we’re really excited to introduce new coaches inside this mastermind experience. We’ve welcomed a mindset coach and a systems coach into the program so not only do you have our support and our feedback, but these other brilliant coaches in there as well. Linda Perry is the mindset coach and Jonnie Stellar is a systems coach.

And what I’m really excited about right now in the Think Tank is that we are planning our upcoming retreat in Washington, DC, this June. And there’s nothing better than getting this mastermind together in person. We were just together in Nashville, Tennessee for TCCIRL for our retreat there. And I’m excited to host a party at my house in DC for the Think Tank members. So we’re looking forward to that. And if you have any interest in being part of a mastermind, like the Think Tank, you can head over to copyrighterthinktank.com to find out more information.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. There’s never really been a better time to join the Think Tank than right now. And I’m so excited your parents are going to be out of town and we can have a party at your house. We’ll have the whole high school over.

Kira Hug:  Oh, it feels like that, doesn’t it?

Rob Marsh:  It does. All right. Let’s get to our interview with Carline. Carline, so tell us… So this is not your first time here on the podcast. So we’ve already kind of been through your story and know how you came about and almost really created this career for yourself, but we brought you back because you’re doing some interesting new things in your business over the last couple of years, the books, especially what you’re doing with video, the tribute to Clayton. Let’s talk about all of that stuff. So what’s been going on for the last 12 months or so?

Carline Anglade-Cole:  Thanks, first of all, having me back. Returns and repeat customers are always the best ones, right?

Kira Hug:  Yes.

Carline Anglade-Cole:  So thank you very much. I appreciate it. And then a lot has happened. I mean, when the Clayton tribute really got me going on a little different tangent where I didn’t know I was going to be doing this and I just started kind of going with what was making sense. And so I’m doing a lot more teaching now. Once I had these amazing videos, I had 18 copywriters, marketers, people in the industry coming to share their special experiences of knowing Clayton and working with him, then they gave this amazing tribute and I had this awesome storehouse that I had to do something with. And I ended up… My assistant said, “You know what? Just put it on YouTube for everybody.

Because I didn’t want to sell anything to anyone. I wanted to give this as a gift because Clayton gave us so much as copywriters in the industry, that I felt like everything people were giving, doing that special tribute, it was going to be a gift. So I was not charging anything for it to anybody. So we put it up on YouTube and that kind of became the beginning for me on YouTube because I was not on YouTube. I didn’t know how it worked. I just like, “Eh, nevermind.” And all of a sudden I got these tributes on here and got me going into it. And so now I’m like a YouTube addict, right? I have learned about YouTube and I thought, “Well, I’m going to do this. I’m going to do it. I’m going to go big.” You know? I’m not going to half step anything.

So I decided to put together my YouTube channel, was Carline Cole YouTube channel, where it’s four copywriters aspiring and existing or experienced writers who just want to know what I do, how I do my thing. I just give away my secrets as far as what I feel makes me a successful writer. And then I just have fun with it. I’ve got all kinds of videos, training videos. I’ve got adventure videos because copywriting is not just about sitting at your desk, writing copy. It’s about your whole life. When you become a copywriter, you have gotten control of your life from day one, from that point on, because you can decide how long you’re going to work. You’re going to decide who you’re going to work with, where you’re going to work. All these things are now within your control. So I have that whole Adventures with CopyStar Carline series where it’s like, “Hey guys, come with me. I’m in Africa,” or, “Here I am in Asia.” Or I have one coming out tomorrow of going on a camel safari in the Baja desert.

And it’s just cool fun things. I just went through my family album and pulled out the stuff and then we put together these cool videos. So it’s not just all work and no play. It’s just a fun channel where I want people who may be interested in copywriting to see what it’s like and then get a taste of it and then decide. If this is what you want to do, well, then you gotta step it up and go to the next level and get yourself some training so that you can be good at this in this amazing career that can do a lot of things for your life.

Rob Marsh:  So before we move on and talk about all this stuff, I want to go back to how it all kicked off with the tribute to Clayton. Last time we talked, which was episode, I think, like 189, we actually called the episode, My Life as a 50 Year Old Man. And you told the story of working with Clayton and what an influence he was. And so I just would love; because I think this is an amazing resource… We talk a little bit about the tribute that you did, the people who spoke. We don’t necessarily have to talk about all of the topics because people can go back and watch, but there were some really amazing lessons from that could benefit all copywriters.

Carline Anglade-Cole:  Absolutely, absolutely. That tribute… I’m telling you, someone said to me, “Carline, you could sell this thing for thousands of dollars and they would still be too cheap.” And what was nice was that everyone just came with their personal story, their personal how Clayton touched their lives and then tied it into copywriting. So I recommend if anyone has not seen it yet, this is a way to get to know Clayton Makepeace, the master copywriter that he was through the eyes of his students and his colleagues throughout his 40-plus-year career. I mean, I got Gary Bencivenga to come out of retirement.

Kira Hug:  Oh, wow.

Carline Anglade-Cole:  He came out of retirement because when he heard I was doing it, he’s like, “I’m in, Carline.” And I’m like, “Oh, thank you so much.” And-

Rob Marsh:  Yeah, when I saw Gary, I’m like, “Oh man, he’s like the dream person to come on the podcast.” Right? And he doesn’t do it for anybody. You and I think Brian Kurtz are about the only people who’ve ever gotten him out of retirement. That is amazing.

Carline Anglade-Cole:  And the thing is, Brian had to ask Gary to come out of retirement. Gary asked me.

Rob Marsh:  There you go.

Carline Anglade-Cole:  So I was teased about that, but no, it was just… It was that type of an environment, where everyone was just willing to give. And so, like I said, if you missed it, you can go check it out. And next month will be two years since Clayton’s been gone. And that’s still getting lots of hits on that, on those videos because it’s… We got really awesome people and I chose… I had to limit to 18. I mean, I could have gone to 180 easily, but I didn’t have enough time, so I just picked the people that I personally knew that Clayton knew and was an influence on them. He was an influence on them, but that could have been so many more people that fit that category. I just did not have enough time or space.

But the ones that I got, I mean, like I said, besides Gary Bencivenga, having Brian Kurtz on board, having Bob Bly. Bob was like, awesome. He was the first one to say, “I’m in Carline. If you’re doing this for Clayton, I am in whatever you need.” So the AWAI’s community supported it. I even had young… My daughters came because I know what Clayton did to them and their career, how he helped them. And so graphic designers like Lori Haller. And I mean, it was just so many people, Cindy Butehorn came in on the marketing side of it because she and Clayton had a great relationship that many people didn’t know about, but it was just something where Clayton touched the lives of so many of us in so many different ways, not just writing copy, but he was an expert marketer, so he could help strategize, mail plans or launches. And so I brought people who were all part of those things and to just kind of showcase what Clayton really meant to them.

So, yep. That was it. So My Life as a 50-plus-year White Male came from the fact that Clayton Makepeace took me under his wings and taught me the art of copywriting. And who were we talking to? We were always talking to 50-plus-year old white men. And that was always the market that I wrote for and I realized, “Wow, these are my peeps. I understand them. They know me.” And it’s given me a wonderful career. 22 years of being a freelance writer and then another 12 years beyond that is being in the industry. So 34 years, that’s a pretty nice career to have and enjoyed it also.

Kira Hug:  And I know we want to dive into your most recent book and we will, but before we started recording, you were talked about how much fun you’re having just kicking off different projects and experimenting and how copywriting has allowed you to pursue these different projects. And so could you just speak to that and what copywriting has allowed you to do that may have surprised you over the years, over the 34 years, just to give an idea to the listeners of what’s possible for all of us?

Carline Anglade-Cole:  Well, I knew that travel would always be a part of my life. I have always been someone who just loved to go places, but I know I would not have gone to the types of places for the length of time that I’ve been able to stay there, if it really wasn’t for a job that gave me the flexibility that copywriting gave me. I mean, I have been through… I can’t say all continents, because I have not been to Antarctica, not yet, but to be able to go and take off and go on an African safari. We’ve gone to South Africa, not just for a week or two. We’re talking about going there for four weeks and longer, some of these places and not missing a beat when it comes to work. I either decide I’m taking off with a month or I’m going to work on the project while I’m there. It doesn’t matter. Just whatever… I have that flexibility to do it.

So I would say first and foremost, the opportunity to travel and to meet so many amazing people from all over the world is something that copywriting has allowed me to do both because of my freedom of time and also with my finances, because these are not cheap trips, you know? So you’re going to… You’re dropping some money to go flying all across the world to do it and that’s something that copywriting has allowed me to do.

And as I’ve matured and I’m realizing I want to have some fun and kind of give back a lot of ways, my YouTube channel’s one of the things I was telling you about earlier, that’s something that’s allowed me to have a lot of fun doing it. I just launched just a few weeks ago. I had this crazy idea. And so I told my team, it’s like, “We need to have a store, just our own direct response copywriter store that’s just for us.” And I was stealing the whole FUBU idea, for you, by you. I said, but for us, by us, and came up with the idea of Magalart, which was taking my magalogs, my covers, my cover test and converting them into artwork. And so I thought that’s a cool name. We’ll call it Magalart.

And then in addition, I’m like, “I got some funky, cool things like mugs and magnets, and t-shirts. They say things… Like my second book, the title of that book is Your Copy Sucks. You don’t. So I got t-shirts that say that, magnets and stuff. And it’s kind of neat when people are sending me photos of them wearing this stuff that I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, that is so cool.” And it’s just fun. It’s like, am I making a career out of selling mugs and t-shirts? No, but I just think it’s so nice to be able to have a place where you’ve got a copywriter in your life, you can say, “Let me Google copywriting gifts here,” and then Magalart pops up. So it’s Magalart, M-A-G-A-L-A-R-T .shop.

That’s all right now. We haven’t even started expanding it too much, but that’s where people are able to find stuff. And then what’s nice is they’re sending me photos of them holding the mug or wearing the t-shirt, just… It’s just kind of fun stuff. So that’s what I’ve got going on right now. I also do my… I have mentoring. I do work and I train with my C.R.A.Z.Y Copy System Live Mentoring Show. That’s more of a online one-on-one, but not one-on-one, it’s a group setting, but it’s more earn while you learn mentoring program that I launched over a year ago and having so much fun with it.

And my whole thing is, “Hey guys, I’m doing this until I don’t like it anymore and when I don’t like it anymore, I’m done.” So that’s the best attitude. Like, take me while you got me because when I say I’m done, I’m done. So that’s been-

Rob Marsh:  It’s a good motto.

Carline Anglade-Cole:  I’ve gotten a couple dozen writers to… They actually got samples. They got their samples tested with my clients. They got paid because their covers beat my control. So they get to not only get paid, but they get a t-shirt that says, “I’m on a roll. I beat Carline’s control.” You can’t buy that t-shirt. You got to earn it. You got to earn it. So just fun things like that. I decided this year I’m going to continue. I’m still working with my clients, but I’ll cut back my writing schedule a lot so I can devote my time to just seeing what I want to do. And I can help a lot of folks right now. So as I’m winding down my career.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah, well, that’s the thing I love about what you’re doing, Carline, is that you’ve spent so much time proving that you know what you know, and learning and doing, and now you’re taking all the time to share. And the various ways that you’re sharing, the YouTube channel, the books, the one-on-one, or group coaching. All of that comes from all of the work that you’ve done.

And so I’ve got questions about each one of those things individually, for sure. One more question about YouTube before we move on to other stuff. And that is a lot of copywriters want to be on YouTube or create a channel for YouTube, and it’s a lot of work. Not only do you have to come up with the content, you’ve got to be the onscreen talent, you’ve got to promote. And if I’m not mistaken, you’ve had some help with that. In fact, I think one of your daughters has helped you significantly, but maybe even a bigger team. Will you tell us about the team and what they’re all doing in order to make that happen for you?

Carline Anglade-Cole:  Absolutely, yeah. There’s no way I could do this without my team. And the fact that none of us knew what we were doing didn’t matter. It was like, “Let’s go ahead and do this.” So YouTube has been a lot of fun and you can enjoy it as long as you’re doing what you like to do. I mean, don’t go on YouTube saying, “Oh, I’m going to create a product. I’m going to create this. I’m going to make X amount of from that,” and that’s the goal. Go on and say, “Hey, I’ve got something I want to share. I think it’s valuable to people, but if they don’t think so, I think it is.” And I’m going to put it on there. So you create your channel for you, first and foremost. Really think about what would I want to see if I was looking at this channel and what would I want to have on here?

So if you go at it that way, then it’s much more fun and you’ll come up with more ideas of what you want to actually have. Now, I do the videos. I mean, I go up and I come up with ideas for videos all the time. And all I do is use my iPhone. I don’t do anything fancy. Stay vertical on your iPhone. That gives you options of creating YouTube shorts, which are just one minute or less videos that YouTube loves now they’re competing against TikTok. So you can do a YouTube short, nothing fancy, just go ahead and just record it and then upload it. So I’ll do my videos vertical like that.

I hired a young guy. Who’s just… You know, these kids know how to do all kinds of stuff on YouTube. So I’m like, “Look, I’m looking for somebody to take these videos and put them on YouTube for me. And then I’ll work with you on putting together the thumbnails, but get it up there for me.” So I got somebody working part-time and that’s what he does. That’s what his job is. I just send him the videos and he puts them up there for me. My assistant, Cynthia, has been great. She’ll help put things together, whatever we need. I write the copy because it’s fun and it’s faster for me to write it because I know what I’m saying. But it’s kind of after that, whatever you don’t know on YouTube, you just go on YouTube and google it. That’s what you do. That’s what we did.

Like, for example, for YouTube to take you seriously, you need to have a thousand subscribers, okay? So it’s like, okay, how do you do that? Well, I have my mailing list. So I went to my mailing list and I said, “Hey guys, I need you to subscribe to my YouTube channel.” And that kind of got me… I have a little unfair advantage because I do have access to that, but you can get your friends or whoever else, the people who know you have it. And that’s how I got my thousand subscribers as quickly as I did. But then I was like, “Oh no. Now you need to have…” To be monetized on YouTube, you have to have 4,000 watch hours. All right? And I’m at that point, I was just trudging along and it’s like, “Okay, I need 4,000.” I was about 2000 at the time and if I was going the same pace as I was doing, then it would take another year to get there.

And I’m like, “I’m not waiting a whole year for that.” So I just sent out an email blast and told my friends and my family and my CopyStar readers, I’m like, “Hey guys, I’m trying to get to 4,000 watch hours on YouTube for them to take me seriously so that the channel can be monetized for advertisements. So please, just watch my channel. Just watch it for me. Just click on it and watch.” And in a matter of, I think it was 18 days, we doubled to 4,000. And I’m like, “Oh, that’s nice.” So now YouTube says, “We acknowledge you as having a thousand subscribers and you are at 4,000 watch hours. So we think you’re legit enough for us to pay attention to you.” And once that happened, now it’s like it starts opening doors for you to do other things, but you know, the advertising revenue, it’s not tons of money, but it could be a couple thousand, several thousand dollars in a year of revenue just by having your videos up there.

And then you start using your copywriting skills, okay? So they talk about YouTube calls it a thumbnail, right? But for us copywriters, it’s just your cover. It’s just a cover. So you want to get a thumbnail that attracts people’s attention. You do the same thing with your cover. So just take your copywriting skills and apply them to your thumbnails. And don’t forget about the description copy that you have with every video. There’s room for description copy. Treat that like your lead. That’s your chance for you to really grab the attention of what the video’s about. And it’s also a chance for YouTube to scan their algorithms to find out what’s in the video and we want to push the video. Right? So I was just using a lot of basic copywriting skills that have just now just translated into being part of the YouTube community.

So once I got over the hurdle of the new terminology, the thumbnail and the description copy, and then the other things you’re talking about, I’m going, “What is all that?” Once I equated that with, oh, cover, headline, lead… I got this. Once I made that click in my brain, then it was like, “You know what? Just use your copywriting skills and put it on there. And that is what I’ve done. And I do regularly just google, how to do this? What should I be looking for, to give me some help with it? But for the most part I’m telling you, we’re doing great. I think before we hit… Well, one year on YouTube, I think at the end of March, and we’re going to have over a hundred thousand impressions by then. And I’m like, “That’s a lot.”

And we’re a little small, a little pea. We’ve got about 20, 2100 subscribers right now. And so I had got the whole idea of doing merchandise, like the magalart.shop store. I have that, but I realized, “Oh shoot, we can’t put our merchandise on YouTube until we have 10,000 subscribers.” So hey, subscribe to my channel, help me get to 10,000 subscribers. But it may take a while, but that’s okay, I’ll get there. And now we’re seeing YouTube has been picking up the videos organically and we’re like, “Wow.” One video hit like 40,000 impressions. I’m going, “What the heck? That’s a lot.” Considering my other ones were only doing about two to 5,000. So I’m just starting to see where YouTube is making it serious.

But if you’re going to do this, you got to, first of all, realize you’re going to need at least a year to get yourself going. So don’t expect miracles in that first year, because it will take a while for you to get it going and for the algorithms to really pick up on your videos and push them to where they need to go. But I mean, that’s what I was told before I started. And I saw that. So don’t get discouraged, just put out good content. Don’t put junk out there. Put quality things that you would like to spend time watching if you were the viewer. And that’s my secret. That’s my strategy on making it on YouTube. And like I said, I’ve got over 200, 250. This week we’ll be over 250 videos. And I can’t believe it. I can’t believe it, but I’m like, “Hey guys, we’re going to do one video a day. Let’s see if we can make that happen.” And so far we’re on track.

Kira Hug:  That’s incredible.

Rob Marsh:  Kira, I’m going to interrupt your comment to Carline as we break in here to talk a little bit about what stood out in the first half of the interview. So I’ve got a couple of things that I’ve written down, but do you want to go first?

Kira Hug:  I can’t believe you interrupted me. No, that’s okay. I do want to… I’m glad you interrupted me because I want to talk about… There was so much in this part of the interview around doing something new or different and Carline did that with her tribute to Clayton Makepeace, and that allowed her to do something new and different and maybe even uncomfortable, although I don’t think she said it was uncomfortable, by creating this YouTube channel and launching these tribute videos to Clayton. But it allowed her to play in a different medium and to explore and have fun with YouTube. And it’s always helpful when you have a reason outside of yourself to do something. And I think for Carline, it was her relationship with Clayton and wanting to do this for him and for the copywriting community. And so it was a great catalyst for her to try something new.

You don’t always need some outside purpose to do something new, but I think it’s just a good reminder that anytime you get a little uncomfortable and do something you haven’t tried before, there’s a ripple effect. And for Carline, the ripple effect was she realized she liked YouTube and she continued to experiment and post content. And now she’s already a year into it. And it’s been a really big part of her growth and the pivot she’s made in her business. And she wouldn’t have known that if she didn’t decide to do this tribute for Clayton.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Anybody who hasn’t checked out the tribute, it’s definitely worth watching the interviews. She features people like Brian Kurtz, Marcella Allison, and David Deutch. My absolute favorite is when Gary Bencivenga shares his 10 maxims. Anytime Gary does something, I try to pay attention. I’ve seen his training. I’ve watched what he presented in Brian Kurtz’s Titans Mastermind. And yeah, I respect and love everything that he does. So it’s definitely worth checking that out. If you only check out one, check out Gary’s, but there are a bunch that are definitely worth watching. And, like you, I’m really impressed because yeah, that helps Carline kick off her YouTube channel. But everything that I’ve heard about YouTube is that you really don’t start getting traction until you’ve posted 200 and… something like 225 videos, 230 videos, and it’s a long game and she’s done a really amazing job of speeding that process up.

Yeah. She now has that many videos, which is great, but she’s got something like 2,500 followers. Every time she posts, she’s got three or 400 views within a few hours. And obviously when you start having that kind of success, YouTube then starts to share your videos with the whole world of YouTube, or at least the copywriting world that’s on YouTube. And it’s helped her grow her list. It helped give her a foundation so when she launched her second book, there’s even more potential readers out there. I’m actually kind of jealous of it because you and I have talked about doing YouTube for a while and what would be the best way for us to do something on YouTube. Maybe we’d take podcasts. There are all kinds of different things that we could do, but she has taken action and just made it happen. And I respect it and I love what she’s doing there.

Kira Hug:  And a cool part about that is she’s been able to grow quickly because I mean, number one, she’s Carline and she’s awesome and a go-getter, goes fully in when she does anything, but also she asks for what she wants. And I think that was a lesson I took away from this conversation is just ask for what you need, ask for what you want. She sent emails, asking her list to subscribe to her YouTube channel. And then when she realized that she needed to have, I think four thousand watch hours, she followed up and asked them, “Hey, can you actually go watch and spend some time in the YouTube channel so I can hit this goal?” And it’s just a great reminder to again, ask for what you want and need because you’re not going to get it if you don’t ask for it and also bring people on the journey with you.

And so for Carline, she’s taking her community and everyone who’s a fan, colleague, friend with her on this YouTube journey and sharing the milestones and being really transparent about like, “Hey, I need this in order to hit this goal. Will you help me?” So people are more likely to buy in and participate and support you if you take them along the journey and paint the picture of where you’re going and give them a concrete goal that they can be a part of rather than leaving it vague so people don’t really understand how they’re showing up and how they can help you.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. And one of the things that I love about that is that because Carline is so engaging and so energetic, when she makes those kinds of invitations, of course you want to hang out with her, you want to see more of it. And so, because she’s leaning all the way into it with all of her personality, everything that she has, it really works for her. The other thing, as she was describing the different things that she was doing on YouTube, it made me realize that there’s really nothing new in the world of marketing. You know, she was talking about the thumbnail is just the cover image and headline and the description of each video is like the lead on a sales page or a sales letter. And it’s just a reminder that yes, the formats change, it may not be a number 10 envelope going out into the mail, like she would’ve written in the 1990s. It’s a YouTube video here in the 2020s, but the elements are pretty much the same and the same persuasion tactics, the same level of engagement, the same things that you do to get people to engage with copy in other mediums works here too. You just have to figure out the connections and I love that.

Kira Hug:  Yeah. And to go back to what you were saying about her enthusiasm. People want to just want to be a part of it because she’s so enthusiastic about what she’s doing. That traces back to fun. And that stood out to me when we were in this interview with Carline and then listening to the interview again. It stood out to me. Maybe it’s because when I’m thinking about what I value in life, I do value fun, but I have not prioritized it in my life. So I feel like at a scale one through 10, my score is probably like a three right now. So it’s something that I am focused on and when I hear someone talk about it, I pay attention. And Carline mentioned fun in this interview. I was tallying how many times she mentioned it, at least 12 times she mentioned fun. And so clearly that’s something that she values right now. And she is actively pulling fun into her business and her life. And that’s something that, again, we can all do at different stages, if it’s something that we do value.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. And you mentioned in our introduction that we’re having a party at your house this June. That’s going to be fun. So hopefully we don’t have to wait-

Kira Hug:  I hope so.

Rob Marsh:  … until June to have some fun in our business. But yeah, doing things like that in your business to have fun, and it can be with clients, it can be with fellow copywriters. As we record this, we just finished up IRL in Nashville, where we were hanging out with 150 or so copywriters. And that was a ton of fun just being around other people, going to dinner, talking, chatting. And so finding those opportunities to have fun. And again, it doesn’t have to be with other people. It can just be because you love what you’re doing. You love the way that you’re engaging with your audience. Carline’s done that well. And it’s definitely something that we can all take away from that.

Kira Hug:  Okay, so maybe my fun score is actually better than I think, because you’re right. We did have fun at IRL and I’m actually… I’ve mentioned this to you already, I’m throwing a party tonight. I feel like this podcast is just me talking about parties I’m throwing, but that’s happens two years after a pandemic and no social contact. I’m ready to throw some parties. So I’m traveling to Boston this weekend and then I have vacation next week. So yeah, I think my fun score is actually a five out of 10 and maybe not as low as I thought, but again, that’s just something that Carline brings to everything she’s doing right now. I think she had a quote about… This was the quote, “Hey guys, I’m doing this until I don’t like it anymore.” And she was speaking about one of her mentoring programs in reference to that quote.

And again, I love that perspective of I don’t have to stick with something if it doesn’t work for me anymore. And Carline is working on less copywriting projects now and venturing into new territories. And I just was really inspired by this interview of how she’s open and intentionally creating space by taking on less copywriting projects so that she’s had this space to play and to say yes, and to write two books over the last few years and to create the YouTube channel and so many more opportunities. I mean, she mentioned the merchandise too, and there’s just this element of space and opportunity in what she’s done, but that doesn’t happen by accident. It happens when you decide this isn’t working for me, I’m not going to do it anymore. And that’s something that I think a lot of copywriters struggle with. I’ve struggled with it. I mean, I think I’m always working through that too. Knowing when to pivot, knowing when to say this doesn’t work. It did work. It doesn’t work anymore.

Rob Marsh:  For sure. One other thing that I want to mention just from this beginning portion of the interview is Carline mentioned that she’s been able to do a lot of stuff thanks to the success she’s had as a copywriter. She mentioned taking real vacations, like three weeks, four weeks long, and having the space to do that. And I think there’s definitely a point in our businesses where we have to decide, okay, are we creating a business that’s supporting the things outside of our lives that we want to do. And if we are, how do we do that? How do we build in time for real vacations for more than a day off or more than a weekend? And she’s done that really well, but it’s just a really good reminder that our businesses are here to support the lives we want. And if we get good at what we do and in solving our clients problems, all those things become a reality.

Kira Hug:  Yeah, and that’s how she kicked off the entire conversation by sharing that she’s grateful for this amazing career that’s allowed her to do so much in her life and that she wants to share that message so we can all live that way too. And I think she mentioned 22 years as a freelance writer, 12 years working in industry, 34 years total in her career, she’s been able to see firsthand what writing copy can do for your whole life. And I think anytime I hear that message, it’s really inspiring to me as well, to just know that this is a career that can go many different places and give us a lot of different opportunities. And Carline is such a great example of that.

All right, let’s get back to our interview with Carline and listen to her advice for pivoting and shifting gears in your business. As I’m listening to you speak about what you’re doing on YouTube and the merchandise and how you’re just having so much fun, you said, “When I’m done, I’m done.” It seems like you know when to move on. And I’m just wondering if that is who you’ve always been, and that just comes naturally to you, and if you have any advice for anyone listening, who maybe feels stuck and struggles to move on and to know when they’re done and they need to evolve in their career, what advice you’d give to them?

Carline Anglade-Cole:  My advice would be if you are stuck and if you don’t let go, if you don’t shift gears, you’re not going to ever know what else is available for you. You’ve only got so much time and space and if you are crowded out with stuff that you don’t want to do, there’s no room to take in something else. So when I say I’m like, “You know what? I’m not having fun anymore doing this. I’m going to let it go.” And by doing that, it opens up opportunities for me to do other things. Like, I was… I love writing copy. I mean, I have a record of writing one package a month. I’m talking a full blown magalog, 24 pages printed, finished and everything else, which is like 50 pages I’m turning in to the client doing one a month.

I’ve done 12 to 16 in a year. All right? That’s when I was loving copywriting, I was loving. I was learning so much. And I’m just like, give it to me, give it to me, give it to me, give it to me. I love it. Right? Well, I don’t want to do that anymore. I don’t want to be at that pace. I loved it then because it was fun and exciting. It’s not fun and exciting anymore. And then when I started feeling like, oh, this is not… I don’t want to tie myself down like this so I started cutting back my schedule. As I cut back my schedule, it was a little scary going, “What’s lined up for next month?” And I’m like, “Nothing. What? Nothing.” And then guess what? Something pops up. And it’s something that I wasn’t expecting, but because I had the opportunity and the time it happens.

Perfect example was COVID changed our lives. At one point I was in there, I was sitting there going, “I’ve always wanted to write a book, but instead I’m sitting here binging on Gilmore Girls and other movie, shows I haven’t watched in forever.” And it’s like, “What are you doing? Stop. Go. You got time now. Go write your book. Go do it.” And so I had wanted to do it. It was February in 2020 when I wanted to