The Conversation with Dasha Burns

Democratic kingmaker Nancy Pelosi has come to be pegged as the chief force behind President Joe Biden’s decision to step down from his reelection campaign — a claim that she refuses to dignify much. While Pelosi no longer wields the Speaker’s gavel, its absence hasn’t done much to stifle her power within the party. She’s not only the first female Speaker of the House, but also one of the most talented political tacticians of her generation. POLITICO’s senior political columnist and politics bureau chief Jonathan Martin sat down with the Speaker Emerita at the CNN-POLITICO Grill on the last day of the Democratic National Convention. JMart and Pelosi covered what state Pelosi believes to be key to retaking the House; how a President Kamala Harris would need to govern; that time when party transcended heritage in her snub of a New York Republican; her relationship with successor Hakeem Jeffries and what she really thinks of that DIY pin of her image that floated around the convention. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO.Nancy Pelosi is the Speaker Emerita of the U.S. House of Representatives. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders joins Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza to give his candid thoughts on Kamala Harris’s presidential campaign, including whether he thinks Joe Biden should have stepped aside in the first place; how Democrats can win back young people, minorities, and progressives; as well as where he agrees with Harris’s policies, and where he thinks she needs to lean in his direction to win. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Bernie Sanders is the senior senator from Vermont.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With the Democratic National Convention just days away, Doug Sosnik, a longtime Dem strategist best known for being a top adviser to Bill Clinton, joins the show to help unpack the new fundamentals of the 2024 presidential campaign. Sosnik and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza discuss: Why the gender gap is getting larger — and how it could impact the election in ways that have not yet been fully appreciated; why JD Vance might influence the election more than Tim Walz; two metrics can tell you the most about the state-of-the-race; why Omaha, Nebraska might be the most important place in this presidential election; and why Sosnik thinks Kamala Harris has the potential to be like Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Doug Sosnik is a Democratic political strategist.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Anita Dunn left her position as a senior advisor to president Joe Biden this week, marking the end of an era for the White House. She was a key architect of his 2020 presidential campaign and one of his closest advisors throughout her tenure. On this episode of Deep Dive, Dunn joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan LIzza to talk about the extraordinary series of events that lead to Biden dropping out of the presidential race, including: the pivotal decision to call for a June debate with Trump; what Dunn was thinking as she watched Biden struggle through the event; the strategy she and her colleagues developed to fight the calls for Biden to step aside; Biden’s final days as the nominee; the new electoral opportunities now available to Harris and a lot more. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Anita Dunn is a former adviser in the Biden Administration.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When President Joe Biden dropped out of the race and the Democratic party rallied around Kamala Harris as his replacement, North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper was widely considered to be a top choice to serve as Harris’s running mate. But Cooper did something unusual: he told the Harris team he didn’t want to be considered as her running mate. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks to Cooper about why he took himself out of contention and how some weird local politics influenced his decision. Also discussed in this episode of the show: Cooper’s conversations with Harris, Biden, and Nancy Pelosi as Democratic leaders navigated the post-debate crisis that lead to Harris’s ascension; how Cooper coached the president in the last days of Biden’s campaign; and whether or not you should believe the hype about Democrats flipping North Carolina this year. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Roy Cooper is the governor of North Carolina.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Playbook co-author Eugene Daniels and POLITICO politics bureau chief Jonathan Martin join host Ryan Lizza to tackle questions about Vice President Kamala Harris’s new role at the top of the Democratic ticket, including: What really caused Joe Biden to end his quest for a second term? How did Kamala Harris lock up the nomination so fast? And what is really going on inside her campaign right now? How have the issues, swing states, and demographics that will decide the 2024 election changed? What are the strengths and weaknesses of the Democrats vying to serve as vice president? And how is Donald Trump responding to all of this? Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Eugene Daniels is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Congressman Richard Hudson is chairman of the National Republican Campaign Committee, which is to say, he’s in charge of delivering a majority in November for Speaker Mike Johnson and possibly President Donald Trump. In this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Hudson discusses how the recent assassination attempt on Donald Trump and the possibility of Joe Biden leaving the Democratic ticket are influencing his strategy for House Republicans this November. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Richard Hudson is the representative for North Carolina's 9th district and chairman of the NRCC.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Georgia Governor Brian Kemp joins for a bonus episode of Playbook Deep Dive. In a live interview from the Republican National Convention, Kemp — a swing state governor with a famously conflicted relationship with Trump — opines on how Saturday’s assassination attempt will change both Trump and Biden’s election strategy; his thoughts on J.D. Vance, Trump's running mate; what his advice to Trump is for his convention speech and everything after; and whether or not he is courting a position in Trump’s cabinet. Eugene Daniels is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Brian Kemp is the governor of Georgia. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Elaine Kamarck is a longtime member of the DNC’s rules committee, a scholar at Brookings, a former advisor to top Democrats such as Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Walter Mondale; and author of “Primary Politics: Everything You Need to Know about How America Nominates Its Presidential Candidates.” On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Eugene Daniels asks Kamarck all of your questions about how the Democratic Party would choose a new nominee should Joe Biden step aside. Topics include: How and when Joe Biden would go about dropping out; if his delegates can rebel against him if he doesn’t; whether or not he can choose a successor; how exactly an open convention would unfold in Chicago; and what she thinks the public’s reaction will be if the Democratic nominee for president is chosen by a handful of party insiders in smoke-filled back rooms. Eugene Daniels is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Elaine Kamarck is a scholar at The Brookings Institution.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Utah Governor Spencer Cox is a longtime Trump critic who is known nationally for his work to depolarize American politics. This week, Cox easily defeated a far-right opponent in the Republican primary. So too did a slate of other Utah Republicans. While national Republicans continue to move in Trump’s direction, in Utah, the Romney faction of the GOP is still holding its own. On this episode of Deep Dive, Cox joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss Utah politics, as well as Cox’s disagreements with Trump; how he’s preparing to be cast as MAGA’s next boogeyman; what he thinks Trump’s other Republican critics, such as Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, get wrong; and why “disagreeing better” doesn’t mean giving up your most strongly held beliefs. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Spencer Cox is the governor of Utah.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bob Bauer is President Joe Biden’s personal lawyer and was general counsel to both of Barack Obama’s presidential campaigns. But over the last three decades, he’s developed another specialty practice: playing the role of his candidate’s rival during debate prep. Bauer has helped Democratic candidates prepare for debates by playing the likes of Bernie Sanders, Al Gore, and Donald Trump. He’s also been involved with efforts to reform the process and production of presidential debates themselves. So with the first presidential debate less than one week away, and both Biden and Trump cramming to prepare for it, Bauer is joining the show to preview the event, as well as to discuss his new book, “The Unraveling: Reflections on Politics without Ethics and Democracy in Crisis”. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Bob Bauer is a lawyer for President Biden and a veteran Democratic debate coach. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

South Carolina Congressman Jim Clyburn is often considered the single most important person in helping Joe Biden win the Democratic nomination in 2020. Now, in 2024, Clyburn is one of Biden’s six campaign co-chairs. On this episode of Deep Dive, Clyburn joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss: Biden’s weakness with Black and Latino voters; the rebellion on the left over Israel’s war in Gaza; the continued Democratic carping about the Biden campaign’s messaging; Biden’s dismal approval ratings; who will be the post-Biden leaders of the Democratic Party; what side he’s taking in that New York Democratic primary that’s pitting the likes of Hakeem Jeffries against Hillary Clinton; and more. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jim Clyburn is a U.S. Congressman from South Carolina. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), one of President Joe Biden’s closest foreign policy advisors, gives his assessment of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s controversial upcoming address in front of Congress, the politics of the Hunter Biden trial, why Coons thinks the president’s executive order on asylum is hollow, how our allies around the world are bracing themselves for the coming election, what would happen if China invaded Taiwan in a Trump versus a Biden administration, and his honest assessment of what’s changed about Biden as he’s aged,. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Chris Coons is a U.S. senator from Delaware. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

POLITICO’s senior legal affairs reporter Kyle Cheney and legal columnist Ankush Khardori debrief on what happened at the Hush Money trial, how Trump’s team may have hurt its own case, and what their best plan is to win an appeal after Thursday’s massive guilty verdict. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Kyle Cheney is a senior legal affairs reporter for POLITICO.Ankush Khardori is a columnist and senior writer for POLITICO Magazine.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.) joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss his entry into the Senate GOP leadership race to succeed Mitch McConnell. They discuss why Sen. Scott is running, what Donald Trump told him about his decision, his relationship with key Republicans such as McConnell and Susie Wiles, his policy agenda on foreign aid, abortion, entitlements, and Israel if he’s elected leader, Trump’s running mate choices, and the importance of having a purpose in life. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Rick Scott is the junior U.S. senator from Florida. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Wednesday morning, Frank Fahrenkopf received a letter from the Biden presidential campaign that ruined his day. Fahrenkopf is co-chair of the Commission on Presidential Debates, which has produced 33 debates since 1988, the first election year it was in business. He was planning on four more this year: three with Biden and Trump as well as the quadrennial vice presidential debate. But the Biden campaign told Fahrenkopf that the president would not be participating in any of them. Instead, the Biden campaign announced that it would negotiate with the Trump campaign and individual media organizations to plan two debates outside of the Commission’s process. By the end of the day Biden and Trump were set to debate in June on CNN and in September on ABC. On this episode of Deep Dive, Fahrenkopf joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss the fall-out from this decision, including the roles of Biden, Trump, and Anita Dunn; why he thinks RFK Jr. may have grounds for a lawsuit against CNN and what some of his favorite behind-the-scenes stories are from his decades of producing debates. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Frank Fahrenkopf is the co-chair of the Commission on Presidential Debates. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fresh off fending off a hard-right coup attempt, the House speaker opens up about his strategy and his future plans for the GOP Conference. Topics in this lengthy interview include: Johnson’s victory over the GOP radicals; Israel; Ukraine; January 6th; the Trump trials; abortion; and his relationships with key Washington leaders, such as Joe Biden, Hakeem Jeffries, Kevin McCarthy and, of course, Donald Trump. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Rachael Bade is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Mike Johnson is the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rep. Jerry Nadler, who has represented a big piece of Manhattan since 1992, is one of the longest-serving Jewish members of the House. He’s also a Columbia University alumnus: he was on campus in 1968 when police cleared Hamilton Hall of anti-Vietnam war protesters. Nadler is a close observer of the Middle East and the politics of Israel in the U.S. And he’s the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, where he’s long seen himself as a champion of civil liberties. All of this background helped put Nadler at the center of a swirl of events this week as pro-Palestinian protesters at Columbia were ejected from Hamilton Hall, as President Biden made his first public remarks about campus protests, as a ceasefire deal between Hamas and Israel seemed tantalizingly close and as the House passed, by an overwhelming majority of 320 to 91, the Antisemitism Awareness Act — a bill against which Nadler led the opposition. On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talked talks with Nadler about all of this and about Trump’s interview in Time Magazine, the potential for disruption at the Democratic Convention in Chicago, the vote Nadler most regrets in his long career and the nature of truth. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jerry Nadler is the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The biggest movie in the country right now is about a civil war — in America. If you see the film “Civil War” at a theater in downtown Washington, the scenes of the Lincoln Memorial exploding and the White House being attacked are jarring when you exit into the D.C. air. The movie is writer and director Alex Garland’s very in-your-face attempt to imagine the unimaginable in America — an authoritarian leader in the White House, intractable political differences being resolved through violence and the very specific horrors of modern warfare — urban fighting, refugee camps, mass atrocities, the collapse of the currency — all the things that we associate with stuff that can happen over there happening right here in the United States. “Civil War” is also a movie about journalism. It follows four reporters traveling from New York to Washington, D.C., via a circuitous route through Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Virginia. The movie takes on a lot of the weighty issues we talk about on shows like this one: media ethics, political polarization, disinformation polluting our media ecosystem and the potential threat from an autocratic leader. Wagner Moura plays a hardened war correspondent addicted to the battlefield. He also provides some much needed levity in the movie. Moura is best-known for his role as Pablo Escobar in “Narcos.” But he’s also a former journalist, a political activist and a writer and director himself. His 2019 movie “Marighella” about the coup and counter-revolution in Brazil in the 1960s incurred the wrath of then-president Jair Bolsonaro in Moura’s home country of Brazil. Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talked with Moura on Thursday just as Washington’s annual White House Correspondents’ Association Dinner festivities were getting under way. It’s the time of year when the relationship between journalists, politicians and Hollywood is at its peak in this town. They had a fascinating conversation about how making a movie about a new civil war changed Moura’s own personal thinking about politics, how his experience with Bolsonaro in Brazil is a warning for Americans and the role of art in politics. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Wagner Moura is a star of A24's film "Civil War".Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After months of delay, this week House Speaker Mike Johnson advanced his much awaited version of the Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan foreign aid package. Standing between that legislation and the House floor: two very powerful committees. First, the House Appropriations Committee, which controls about a third of federal spending. And second, the Rules Committee, which controls access to the House floor, and which has become a problem for GOP leaders in this Congress. Johnson needed to pick the lock on both of these committees. And there is one Member of Congress who has chaired them both. Not just in the past year — but in the past month: Oklahoma Republican Tom Cole. Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza caught up with Cole on Thursday afternoon after he’d just testified in support of the foreign aid bill in front of his old committee. They got deep into the weeds of why the Rules Committee has been such a trouble spot for recent GOP speakers; and they discussed Johnson’s tenure so far and whether Cole thinks the Speaker can hang on as members threaten to oust him. Cole also previewed how he will run the Appropriations Committee, including how he’ll handle the controversial earmarks process. And Cole answered some prying questions from some of his favorite historians on the subject of Donald Trump. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Tom Cole is the chair of the House Appropriations committee. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael Cohen may be the only person standing between Donald Trump and jail. Three of Trump’s four criminal trials — the ones in Washington, Florida and Georgia — seem hopelessly stalled. But on this coming Monday in New York, the hush money case is set to begin. Deep Dive guest and former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen is the star witness in the case. On this episode, he joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss how he will defend the assault on his credibility at the trial, why Alvin Bragg’s case is stronger than analysts believe, the legal tactics he’s expecting from Trump’s team and whether he ever regrets breaking with Trump. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Michael Cohen is Donald Trump's former lawyer and fixer.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On April 1, the Florida Supreme Court issued a pair of decisions on abortion that led the Biden campaign to declare that Florida, which Democrats have lost twice to Donald Trump, was now “winnable.” The only problem with that? Some of Florida’s abortion rights advocates want the president to stay away. At issue is Amendment 4, a measure on November’s ballot that would enshrine abortion in the state constitution — and will also need Republican and independent votes to pass. On this episode of Deep Dive, Anna Hochkammer, the executive director of the Florida Women’s Freedom Coalition and one of the architects of Florida’s abortion ballot initiative, joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss the delicate politics of building a bipartisan coalition around abortion rights in a red state like Florida. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Anna Hochkammer is the executive director of the Florida Women's Freedom Coalition. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A year ago today, Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich was arrested in Russia and charged with espionage, an allegation he and the Journal said was absurd. The State Department declared that Gershkovich was “wrongfully detained,” an official status that commits the Biden administration to work for his release. Journal publisher Almar Latour has played a key role in the legal and diplomatic effort to free Gershkovich. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with Latour to learn the inside story of this effort. They discuss: how the shadow of basketball star Brittney Griner’s detainment in Russia is influencing talks to bring Evan home; why a Russian hitman serving a life sentence in Germany may be the key to unlocking a deal with Putin; and how the 2024 election may affect Gershkovich’s fate. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Almar Latour is CEO of Dow Jones and publisher of The Wall Street Journal.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The politics of the Israel-Hamas war have become one of the most divisive issues in the Democratic Party. Mark Mellman, the president of Democratic Majority for Israel – and a longtime pollster – joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to get into the weeds on the new politics of Israel within the Democratic Party. Other subjects covered include the polling data behind Biden’s age, Trump’s hold on the GOP, double doubters, abortion, the fate of Nikki Haley voters, and whether you should bother paying attention to polls in the first place. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mark Mellman is the president of Democratic Majority for Israel.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TikTok, abortion, and IVF: three of the biggest issues in American politics right now and Kellyanne Conway is in the middle of all of them. Conway has been advising Donald Trump and Mike Pence for years and lately she’s best known for urging the GOP to leave TikTok alone and moderate the party’s message on reproductive rights. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza has a spirited conversation with Conway at POLITICO’s Health Care Summit, where they recorded Deep Dive’s first-ever live show. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Kellyanne Conway is a GOP strategist and former Trump adviser. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

First ladies are among the most powerful advisers in any White House and Jill Biden is no exception. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza is joined by NYT White House correspondent Katie Rogers, who recently published “American Woman: The Transformation of the Modern First Lady, from Hillary Clinton to Jill Biden,” an authoritative account of how this century’s first ladies have influenced the nation. Ryan and Katie discuss Jill Biden and Melania Trump’s roles in staffing, campaigning, and policy decisions; sensitive items from their times in the White House, such as Melania and Donald’s prenup; and whether or not Jill Biden has ever forgiven Kamala Harris for what she said about Joe in 2020. Additionally, Katie opened up about the time her editors at the New York Times sent her to Arkansas and forced her to report a story about the Bidens that she didn’t want to cover — and how it ended up forcing Jill and Joe to confront an uncomfortable truth about their family. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Katie Rogers is a White House correspondent for The New York Times. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Carlos Lozada is a columnist for The New York Times, and before that, the longtime nonfiction book critic for The Washington Post. In 2019, Lozada won the Pulitzer Prize for criticism for a series of pieces that judges described as “trenchant and searching reviews and essays that joined warm emotion and careful analysis in examining a broad range of books addressing government and the American experience.” Well, he's now collected nearly a decade of such reviews in what he calls “The Washington Book: How to Read Politics and Politicians,” which was released this week. “If the art of politics can be to subtract meaning from language to produce more and more words that say less and less,” he writes, “then it is my purpose as a journalist to try to find that meaning and put it back.” He reads a lot of books by politicians. As he likes to say, he reads all those books so that you don't have to. But he's found a way to use those books to say something interesting about those same politicians. So what does Carlos's close reading of the likes of Barack Obama, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Mike Pence, Ron DeSantis and many others reveal about our politics in 2024? It turns out quite a lot. On this week’s episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza sits down with Carlos in POLITICO's offices to find out more. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Carlos Lozada is an opinion columnist and co-host of the weekly “Matter of Opinion” podcast for The New York Times. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) has a way of being in the middle of things, whether it’s standing up to Trump after Jan. 6 when many in her party kept quiet, helping overthrow House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, or warning Republicans about how they were wrong when it comes to the politics of abortion. But some of that drama is catching up with Mace back home in South Carolina, which on Saturday will be the center of the political world as voters head to the polls in the state’s presidential primary. Mace is now back in Trump’s corner and facing a primary which features not one but two candidates at least partly motivated by revenge: a candidate backed by McCarthy and Mace’s own former chief of staff. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks to Rep. Mace about her on-again, off-again history with Trump; the revenge plots playing out in her primary; her prediction about Trump’s margin of victory on Saturday; and the backstory to that time she wore a giant scarlet “A” on the House floor. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Nancy Mace is the representative for South Carolina's 1st district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rep. Jim Himes (D-Conn.), the ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee, joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss everything you might want to know about Russian space weapons, Section 702 reforms, and the behind-the-scenes action at the Intelligence Committee during a week of extraordinary volatility. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jim Himes is the representative for Connecticut's 4th district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) was the Democratic lead on the much anticipated bipartisan border legislation that was supposed to sail through the Senate and unlock funding for the war in Ukraine. But everything went sideways this week when Republicans, at Donald Trump’s insistence, abruptly turned against the bill. On this episode of Deep Dive, Sen. Murphy tells host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza what really happened behind the scenes in the negotiations that assembled the bill and how things unraveled so fast. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Sen. Chris Murphy is the junior senator from Connecticut.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Congresswoman Veronica Escobar (D-Texas) discusses the unique role she plays as one of President Joe Biden’s campaign co-chairs who is also opposed to some of the key policies he is pursuing on immigration and in the Middle East. On this episode, she tells Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza: Her views on Biden’s border policies and the senate bill Her own ideas of what a winning immigration policy looks like Her concerns about Biden’s policies in the Middle East — and what she fears is the potential political fallout for his re-election What might be on the agenda at the next secret meeting of Biden’s campaign co-chairs Whether she’d rather Biden run against Nikki Haley or Donald Trump Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Veronica Escobar is the representative for Texas's 16th district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mark Penn is best known for two things: his devotion to centrist politics and his former role as the top pollster and strategist for Bill and Hillary Clinton. Lately, he’s added a third: a barrage of polls that show a large majority of Americans are crying out for an alternative to Trump and Biden. On this episode of Deep Dive, he talks with host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza about his relationship (or lack thereof) with No Labels – a group promoting a third-party candidacy – the recent GOP primary results, his controversial polls, and why he thinks that Nikki Haley may still have a big role to play in this year’s election. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mark Penn is the CEO of Stagwell and former Clinton strategist.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joe McQuaid, the longtime publisher of The New Hampshire Union Leader – the 161-year old conservative paper that has operated like a Republican party boss for many decades – joins Deep Dive to tell host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza everything you need to know about Tuesday’s New Hampshire primary, including whether or not Nikki Haley can win, if she’ll get the Union Leader’s endorsement, and whether New Hampshire’s primacy in American politics has come to an end. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Joe McQuaid is the former publisher of The New Hampshire Union Leader.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Axelrod, the former top Obama strategist, has been offering some tough medicine to Joe Biden’s presidential campaign. In November, he suggested Biden think long and hard about running for reelection. He has been withering about Biden’s skills as a candidate and communicator. He is deeply concerned about the president’s age. And unlike other Democrats in the anti-bedwetting set, Axe has been clear that the party should be freaked out by the polls. On this episode of Deep Dive, he joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss his critiques of the Biden operation, the parallels with 2012 when he led strategy for the Obama reelection, and what it’s like to be a critic of your own party when most partisans these days are expected to mouth the party line. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.David Axelrod is a Democratic political strategist and a CNN senior political commentator.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the Iowa caucuses near, Playbook’s Ryan Lizza and POLITICO Politics Bureau Chief Jonathan Martin go deep on what we know – and what we’ll soon find out – about Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Nikki Haley, and Ron DeSantis’ campaigns. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Arthur Brooks ran the American Enterprise Institute for more than a decade. Now, he’s a fulltime happiness scientist. Here’s his guide to making it in Washington without sacrificing your humanity. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Arthur Brooks is the Parker Gilbert Montgomery Professor of the Practice of Nonprofit and Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School and the author of "Build the Life You Want: The Art and Science of Getting Happier".Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A week of new developments in impeachment, Donald Trump’s D.C. case, and Hunter Biden’s congressional inquiry showcased how the collision of law and politics will determine much of Republicans’ and Democrats’ political fortunes in 2024. POLITICO legal editor James Romoser and national correspondent Betsy Woodruff Swan join to discuss the implications. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.James Romoser is the legal editor for POLITICO.Betsy Woodruff Swan is a national correspondent for POLITICO.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The GOP’s lead negotiator on the embattled Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan, and border security supplemental believes that a compromise will happen. But do his Democratic colleagues in the Senate and his fellow Republicans in the House agree? Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.James Lankford is the senior U.S. senator from Oklahoma.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

House Majority Leader Steve Scalise illuminates what happened behind closed doors after Kevin McCarthy’s ousting as well as what to expect next on impeachment; why he will vote against expelling George Santos; and how Speaker Mike Johnson is trying to use immigration to tame hardliners when it comes to the spending showdown with Joe Biden. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Steve Scalise is the House Majority Leader. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

John Judis and Ruy Teixeira, co-authors of “The Emerging Democratic Majority,” are back with a new book that argues that the Democrats are imperiled by a “shadow party” that is forcing them into “radical” positions on cultural issues and diverting them away from their core economic issues. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.John Judis is editor at large at Talking Points Memo and co-author of "Where Have All the Democrats Gone?"Ruy Teixeira is a Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and co-author of "Where Have All the Democrats Gone?"Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Australian TV hosts Chas Licciardello and John Barron explain how American politics has influenced culture and government in their homeland; and which single feature of Australian politics could fix many of America’s biggest problems. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Chas Licciardello is a comedian and co-host of Planet America.John Barron is a journalist, broadcaster and co-host of Planet America.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this week’s episode of Deep Dive, Pulitzer Prize winner David Leonhardt joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to talk about his new book and what it says about how Democrats can save their relationship with working class voters. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.David Leonhardt is a senior writer for the New York Times and the author of "Ours Was the Shining Future: The Story of the American Dream."Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Since the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision in June 2022, the GOP has repeatedly paid a price electorally for its stance on abortion. The chaos has been dispiriting to the anti-abortion activists who helped engineer the Dobbs decision in the first place. And now they think they have a new political strategy to get Republicans out of their defensive crouch and to start winning again on this issue. The woman leading this effort is Marjorie Dannenfelser, the head of Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America, one of the most important institutions in the GOP firmament. She’s known as the woman who killed Roe. Dannenfelser and her colleagues are plotting, financing, and staffing the Republican Party’s counter attack on abortion. Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza sat down with her at SBA’s Virginia headquarters this week, partly because she had some news she wanted to share about how and where anti-abortion activists are making their first big move. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Marjorie Dannenfelser is the president of Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza joins Rep. Mike Lawler (R-N.Y.) to learn how he and other GOP moderates, institutionalists, and Biden-district Republicans have organized against Jim Jordan’s campaign to be speaker of the House… and what the endgame is for Republicans to escape this mess. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mike Lawler is the representative for New York's 17th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jon Finer, President Joe Biden’s principal deputy national security adviser, opens up to Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza about how the administration is approaching some of the thorniest problems related to the war in Israel, including: striking the right balance between supporting Israel and expressing concerns about an extreme response; Biden’s warnings to Iran; and whether America should now consider itself at war with Hamas. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jon Finer is the White House deputy national security adviser.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marty Baron ran The Washington Post’s newsroom for nine years. In that time, Marty clashed with then-president Donald Trump. He pacified rebellions from his younger and increasingly more ideological staff. And he partnered with Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos to take on arguably the biggest disrupter of all: technology. He’s written about all of this — and a lot more — in his new book, "Collision of Power: Trump, Bezos, and The Washington Post." Today, Marty is joining Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza to spill the tea on what actually happened between Bezos and Trump; what the media should be doing to earn your trust; and whether billionaires like Jeff Bezos are secretly pulling the strings behind closed doors. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Marty Baron is the retired executive editor of The Washington Post. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The center of presidential politics this week was the swing state of Michigan. Trump won the longtime Democratic stronghold in 2016, and Biden won it back in 2020. It will be pivotal again in 2024. And that’s why both candidates flew to metro Detroit on consecutive days this week to insert themselves into the United Auto Workers’ strike against the so-called “Detroit Three” — General Motors, Ford, and Stellantis, the company that owns Chrysler. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza joins Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-Mich.), the House’s key player when it comes to the UAW strike, for a conversation about the strike’s political consequences, why she thinks that Democrats may be in danger of losing Michigan in 2024, and why the strike’s biggest sticking point is something you might not even have heard about. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Debbie Dingell is the representative for Michigan's 6th district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After losing a series of votes this week to avoid a government shutdown, Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy has effectively lost his majority. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza asks the number two Democratic leader in the House, Minority Whip Katherine Clark, what price McCarthy will have to pay for Democrats to lend their votes to passing a CR and fending-off a potential challenge to his speakership. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Katherine Clark is the House Minority Whip and the representative for Massachusetts's 5th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It would be easy to look at the House of Representatives and assume that the members of the Freedom Caucus — and not Speaker Kevin McCarthy — are the ones who are actually in charge. But is that actually true? On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with one of the top House moderates, Ohio Congressman Dave Joyce. Joyce is the Chairman of the Republican Governance Group, the pre-eminent faction for GOP centrists; and he’s also a senior appropriator, which means he’s one of the people who has to figure out how to avoid the possible government shutdown lurking at the end of the month. Ryan caught-up with Joyce in his Washington office to learn how the Republicans you don’t see quoted on Breitbart are approaching the tumultuous issues gripping the lower chamber. They talked at length about the rationale behind McCarthy’s new impeachment gambit; if and how the Speaker can claw together the votes to avoid a government shutdown; the odds that McCarthy will face a vote to remove him as Speaker; and what it’s really like in private between Joyce and members of the Freedom Caucus he battles in public. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.David Joyce is the representative for Ohio's 14th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What makes President Joe Biden? We’re all pretty familiar with Vice President Biden and Senator Biden. But in his latest iteration as commander-in-chief, it hasn’t been as easy to see inside his mind. Cracking into Biden’s brain and inside the White House has been a challenge for the media. He’s surrounded by a tight “clan” of family and advisors who have achieved Biden lifer status — and they don’t often leak. It consists of his sister Valerie, and the five advisers known as the Quint: Steve Ricchetti, Mike Donilon, Anita Dunn, Bruce Reed, and now former chief of staff Ron Klain. It’s been a notoriously tough circle to penetrate. But now one person has done it: Franklin Foer, who spent the last few years inside the heads of Biden and his team and has written the definitive account of President Biden’s first two years in office called “The Last Politician: Inside Joe Biden's White House and the Struggle for America's Future.” The book was originally supposed to be about the first one hundred days. But the story was too interesting to stop. Next, he planned to wrap up after the passage of Build Back Better. The book ended up growing into a two-year project that ends tidily with the midterms. But where the book really shines when it grapples with the core of who Biden is — both psychologically and ideologically. Whether you love Biden or hate him, Frank’s book just might change your mind about how you understand him. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza sits down with Frank Foer to dig into the revelations that fill the pages of his new book, like how pivotal Biden’s inner circle is to his decision making; his relationship with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy; the low point of the presidency so far; and what’s in store for Biden as he prepares for another run as the oldest sitting president in history. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Franklin Foer is a staff writer at The Atlantic. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices