The Conversation with Dasha Burns

Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), one of President Joe Biden’s closest foreign policy advisors, gives his assessment of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s controversial upcoming address in front of Congress, the politics of the Hunter Biden trial, why Coons thinks the president’s executive order on asylum is hollow, how our allies around the world are bracing themselves for the coming election, what would happen if China invaded Taiwan in a Trump versus a Biden administration, and his honest assessment of what’s changed about Biden as he’s aged,. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Chris Coons is a U.S. senator from Delaware. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

POLITICO’s senior legal affairs reporter Kyle Cheney and legal columnist Ankush Khardori debrief on what happened at the Hush Money trial, how Trump’s team may have hurt its own case, and what their best plan is to win an appeal after Thursday’s massive guilty verdict. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Kyle Cheney is a senior legal affairs reporter for POLITICO.Ankush Khardori is a columnist and senior writer for POLITICO Magazine.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.) joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss his entry into the Senate GOP leadership race to succeed Mitch McConnell. They discuss why Sen. Scott is running, what Donald Trump told him about his decision, his relationship with key Republicans such as McConnell and Susie Wiles, his policy agenda on foreign aid, abortion, entitlements, and Israel if he’s elected leader, Trump’s running mate choices, and the importance of having a purpose in life. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Rick Scott is the junior U.S. senator from Florida. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Wednesday morning, Frank Fahrenkopf received a letter from the Biden presidential campaign that ruined his day. Fahrenkopf is co-chair of the Commission on Presidential Debates, which has produced 33 debates since 1988, the first election year it was in business. He was planning on four more this year: three with Biden and Trump as well as the quadrennial vice presidential debate. But the Biden campaign told Fahrenkopf that the president would not be participating in any of them. Instead, the Biden campaign announced that it would negotiate with the Trump campaign and individual media organizations to plan two debates outside of the Commission’s process. By the end of the day Biden and Trump were set to debate in June on CNN and in September on ABC. On this episode of Deep Dive, Fahrenkopf joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss the fall-out from this decision, including the roles of Biden, Trump, and Anita Dunn; why he thinks RFK Jr. may have grounds for a lawsuit against CNN and what some of his favorite behind-the-scenes stories are from his decades of producing debates. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Frank Fahrenkopf is the co-chair of the Commission on Presidential Debates. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fresh off fending off a hard-right coup attempt, the House speaker opens up about his strategy and his future plans for the GOP Conference. Topics in this lengthy interview include: Johnson’s victory over the GOP radicals; Israel; Ukraine; January 6th; the Trump trials; abortion; and his relationships with key Washington leaders, such as Joe Biden, Hakeem Jeffries, Kevin McCarthy and, of course, Donald Trump. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Rachael Bade is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Mike Johnson is the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rep. Jerry Nadler, who has represented a big piece of Manhattan since 1992, is one of the longest-serving Jewish members of the House. He’s also a Columbia University alumnus: he was on campus in 1968 when police cleared Hamilton Hall of anti-Vietnam war protesters. Nadler is a close observer of the Middle East and the politics of Israel in the U.S. And he’s the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, where he’s long seen himself as a champion of civil liberties. All of this background helped put Nadler at the center of a swirl of events this week as pro-Palestinian protesters at Columbia were ejected from Hamilton Hall, as President Biden made his first public remarks about campus protests, as a ceasefire deal between Hamas and Israel seemed tantalizingly close and as the House passed, by an overwhelming majority of 320 to 91, the Antisemitism Awareness Act — a bill against which Nadler led the opposition. On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talked talks with Nadler about all of this and about Trump’s interview in Time Magazine, the potential for disruption at the Democratic Convention in Chicago, the vote Nadler most regrets in his long career and the nature of truth. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jerry Nadler is the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The biggest movie in the country right now is about a civil war — in America. If you see the film “Civil War” at a theater in downtown Washington, the scenes of the Lincoln Memorial exploding and the White House being attacked are jarring when you exit into the D.C. air. The movie is writer and director Alex Garland’s very in-your-face attempt to imagine the unimaginable in America — an authoritarian leader in the White House, intractable political differences being resolved through violence and the very specific horrors of modern warfare — urban fighting, refugee camps, mass atrocities, the collapse of the currency — all the things that we associate with stuff that can happen over there happening right here in the United States. “Civil War” is also a movie about journalism. It follows four reporters traveling from New York to Washington, D.C., via a circuitous route through Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Virginia. The movie takes on a lot of the weighty issues we talk about on shows like this one: media ethics, political polarization, disinformation polluting our media ecosystem and the potential threat from an autocratic leader. Wagner Moura plays a hardened war correspondent addicted to the battlefield. He also provides some much needed levity in the movie. Moura is best-known for his role as Pablo Escobar in “Narcos.” But he’s also a former journalist, a political activist and a writer and director himself. His 2019 movie “Marighella” about the coup and counter-revolution in Brazil in the 1960s incurred the wrath of then-president Jair Bolsonaro in Moura’s home country of Brazil. Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talked with Moura on Thursday just as Washington’s annual White House Correspondents’ Association Dinner festivities were getting under way. It’s the time of year when the relationship between journalists, politicians and Hollywood is at its peak in this town. They had a fascinating conversation about how making a movie about a new civil war changed Moura’s own personal thinking about politics, how his experience with Bolsonaro in Brazil is a warning for Americans and the role of art in politics. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Wagner Moura is a star of A24's film "Civil War".Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After months of delay, this week House Speaker Mike Johnson advanced his much awaited version of the Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan foreign aid package. Standing between that legislation and the House floor: two very powerful committees. First, the House Appropriations Committee, which controls about a third of federal spending. And second, the Rules Committee, which controls access to the House floor, and which has become a problem for GOP leaders in this Congress. Johnson needed to pick the lock on both of these committees. And there is one Member of Congress who has chaired them both. Not just in the past year — but in the past month: Oklahoma Republican Tom Cole. Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza caught up with Cole on Thursday afternoon after he’d just testified in support of the foreign aid bill in front of his old committee. They got deep into the weeds of why the Rules Committee has been such a trouble spot for recent GOP speakers; and they discussed Johnson’s tenure so far and whether Cole thinks the Speaker can hang on as members threaten to oust him. Cole also previewed how he will run the Appropriations Committee, including how he’ll handle the controversial earmarks process. And Cole answered some prying questions from some of his favorite historians on the subject of Donald Trump. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Tom Cole is the chair of the House Appropriations committee. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael Cohen may be the only person standing between Donald Trump and jail. Three of Trump’s four criminal trials — the ones in Washington, Florida and Georgia — seem hopelessly stalled. But on this coming Monday in New York, the hush money case is set to begin. Deep Dive guest and former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen is the star witness in the case. On this episode, he joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss how he will defend the assault on his credibility at the trial, why Alvin Bragg’s case is stronger than analysts believe, the legal tactics he’s expecting from Trump’s team and whether he ever regrets breaking with Trump. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Michael Cohen is Donald Trump's former lawyer and fixer.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On April 1, the Florida Supreme Court issued a pair of decisions on abortion that led the Biden campaign to declare that Florida, which Democrats have lost twice to Donald Trump, was now “winnable.” The only problem with that? Some of Florida’s abortion rights advocates want the president to stay away. At issue is Amendment 4, a measure on November’s ballot that would enshrine abortion in the state constitution — and will also need Republican and independent votes to pass. On this episode of Deep Dive, Anna Hochkammer, the executive director of the Florida Women’s Freedom Coalition and one of the architects of Florida’s abortion ballot initiative, joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss the delicate politics of building a bipartisan coalition around abortion rights in a red state like Florida. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Anna Hochkammer is the executive director of the Florida Women's Freedom Coalition. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A year ago today, Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich was arrested in Russia and charged with espionage, an allegation he and the Journal said was absurd. The State Department declared that Gershkovich was “wrongfully detained,” an official status that commits the Biden administration to work for his release. Journal publisher Almar Latour has played a key role in the legal and diplomatic effort to free Gershkovich. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with Latour to learn the inside story of this effort. They discuss: how the shadow of basketball star Brittney Griner’s detainment in Russia is influencing talks to bring Evan home; why a Russian hitman serving a life sentence in Germany may be the key to unlocking a deal with Putin; and how the 2024 election may affect Gershkovich’s fate. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Almar Latour is CEO of Dow Jones and publisher of The Wall Street Journal.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The politics of the Israel-Hamas war have become one of the most divisive issues in the Democratic Party. Mark Mellman, the president of Democratic Majority for Israel – and a longtime pollster – joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to get into the weeds on the new politics of Israel within the Democratic Party. Other subjects covered include the polling data behind Biden’s age, Trump’s hold on the GOP, double doubters, abortion, the fate of Nikki Haley voters, and whether you should bother paying attention to polls in the first place. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mark Mellman is the president of Democratic Majority for Israel.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TikTok, abortion, and IVF: three of the biggest issues in American politics right now and Kellyanne Conway is in the middle of all of them. Conway has been advising Donald Trump and Mike Pence for years and lately she’s best known for urging the GOP to leave TikTok alone and moderate the party’s message on reproductive rights. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza has a spirited conversation with Conway at POLITICO’s Health Care Summit, where they recorded Deep Dive’s first-ever live show. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Kellyanne Conway is a GOP strategist and former Trump adviser. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

First ladies are among the most powerful advisers in any White House and Jill Biden is no exception. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza is joined by NYT White House correspondent Katie Rogers, who recently published “American Woman: The Transformation of the Modern First Lady, from Hillary Clinton to Jill Biden,” an authoritative account of how this century’s first ladies have influenced the nation. Ryan and Katie discuss Jill Biden and Melania Trump’s roles in staffing, campaigning, and policy decisions; sensitive items from their times in the White House, such as Melania and Donald’s prenup; and whether or not Jill Biden has ever forgiven Kamala Harris for what she said about Joe in 2020. Additionally, Katie opened up about the time her editors at the New York Times sent her to Arkansas and forced her to report a story about the Bidens that she didn’t want to cover — and how it ended up forcing Jill and Joe to confront an uncomfortable truth about their family. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Katie Rogers is a White House correspondent for The New York Times. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Carlos Lozada is a columnist for The New York Times, and before that, the longtime nonfiction book critic for The Washington Post. In 2019, Lozada won the Pulitzer Prize for criticism for a series of pieces that judges described as “trenchant and searching reviews and essays that joined warm emotion and careful analysis in examining a broad range of books addressing government and the American experience.” Well, he's now collected nearly a decade of such reviews in what he calls “The Washington Book: How to Read Politics and Politicians,” which was released this week. “If the art of politics can be to subtract meaning from language to produce more and more words that say less and less,” he writes, “then it is my purpose as a journalist to try to find that meaning and put it back.” He reads a lot of books by politicians. As he likes to say, he reads all those books so that you don't have to. But he's found a way to use those books to say something interesting about those same politicians. So what does Carlos's close reading of the likes of Barack Obama, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Mike Pence, Ron DeSantis and many others reveal about our politics in 2024? It turns out quite a lot. On this week’s episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza sits down with Carlos in POLITICO's offices to find out more. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Carlos Lozada is an opinion columnist and co-host of the weekly “Matter of Opinion” podcast for The New York Times. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) has a way of being in the middle of things, whether it’s standing up to Trump after Jan. 6 when many in her party kept quiet, helping overthrow House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, or warning Republicans about how they were wrong when it comes to the politics of abortion. But some of that drama is catching up with Mace back home in South Carolina, which on Saturday will be the center of the political world as voters head to the polls in the state’s presidential primary. Mace is now back in Trump’s corner and facing a primary which features not one but two candidates at least partly motivated by revenge: a candidate backed by McCarthy and Mace’s own former chief of staff. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks to Rep. Mace about her on-again, off-again history with Trump; the revenge plots playing out in her primary; her prediction about Trump’s margin of victory on Saturday; and the backstory to that time she wore a giant scarlet “A” on the House floor. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Nancy Mace is the representative for South Carolina's 1st district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rep. Jim Himes (D-Conn.), the ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee, joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss everything you might want to know about Russian space weapons, Section 702 reforms, and the behind-the-scenes action at the Intelligence Committee during a week of extraordinary volatility. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jim Himes is the representative for Connecticut's 4th district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) was the Democratic lead on the much anticipated bipartisan border legislation that was supposed to sail through the Senate and unlock funding for the war in Ukraine. But everything went sideways this week when Republicans, at Donald Trump’s insistence, abruptly turned against the bill. On this episode of Deep Dive, Sen. Murphy tells host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza what really happened behind the scenes in the negotiations that assembled the bill and how things unraveled so fast. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Sen. Chris Murphy is the junior senator from Connecticut.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Congresswoman Veronica Escobar (D-Texas) discusses the unique role she plays as one of President Joe Biden’s campaign co-chairs who is also opposed to some of the key policies he is pursuing on immigration and in the Middle East. On this episode, she tells Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza: Her views on Biden’s border policies and the senate bill Her own ideas of what a winning immigration policy looks like Her concerns about Biden’s policies in the Middle East — and what she fears is the potential political fallout for his re-election What might be on the agenda at the next secret meeting of Biden’s campaign co-chairs Whether she’d rather Biden run against Nikki Haley or Donald Trump Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Veronica Escobar is the representative for Texas's 16th district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mark Penn is best known for two things: his devotion to centrist politics and his former role as the top pollster and strategist for Bill and Hillary Clinton. Lately, he’s added a third: a barrage of polls that show a large majority of Americans are crying out for an alternative to Trump and Biden. On this episode of Deep Dive, he talks with host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza about his relationship (or lack thereof) with No Labels – a group promoting a third-party candidacy – the recent GOP primary results, his controversial polls, and why he thinks that Nikki Haley may still have a big role to play in this year’s election. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mark Penn is the CEO of Stagwell and former Clinton strategist.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joe McQuaid, the longtime publisher of The New Hampshire Union Leader – the 161-year old conservative paper that has operated like a Republican party boss for many decades – joins Deep Dive to tell host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza everything you need to know about Tuesday’s New Hampshire primary, including whether or not Nikki Haley can win, if she’ll get the Union Leader’s endorsement, and whether New Hampshire’s primacy in American politics has come to an end. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Joe McQuaid is the former publisher of The New Hampshire Union Leader.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Axelrod, the former top Obama strategist, has been offering some tough medicine to Joe Biden’s presidential campaign. In November, he suggested Biden think long and hard about running for reelection. He has been withering about Biden’s skills as a candidate and communicator. He is deeply concerned about the president’s age. And unlike other Democrats in the anti-bedwetting set, Axe has been clear that the party should be freaked out by the polls. On this episode of Deep Dive, he joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss his critiques of the Biden operation, the parallels with 2012 when he led strategy for the Obama reelection, and what it’s like to be a critic of your own party when most partisans these days are expected to mouth the party line. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.David Axelrod is a Democratic political strategist and a CNN senior political commentator.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the Iowa caucuses near, Playbook’s Ryan Lizza and POLITICO Politics Bureau Chief Jonathan Martin go deep on what we know – and what we’ll soon find out – about Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Nikki Haley, and Ron DeSantis’ campaigns. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Arthur Brooks ran the American Enterprise Institute for more than a decade. Now, he’s a fulltime happiness scientist. Here’s his guide to making it in Washington without sacrificing your humanity. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Arthur Brooks is the Parker Gilbert Montgomery Professor of the Practice of Nonprofit and Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School and the author of "Build the Life You Want: The Art and Science of Getting Happier".Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A week of new developments in impeachment, Donald Trump’s D.C. case, and Hunter Biden’s congressional inquiry showcased how the collision of law and politics will determine much of Republicans’ and Democrats’ political fortunes in 2024. POLITICO legal editor James Romoser and national correspondent Betsy Woodruff Swan join to discuss the implications. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.James Romoser is the legal editor for POLITICO.Betsy Woodruff Swan is a national correspondent for POLITICO.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The GOP’s lead negotiator on the embattled Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan, and border security supplemental believes that a compromise will happen. But do his Democratic colleagues in the Senate and his fellow Republicans in the House agree? Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.James Lankford is the senior U.S. senator from Oklahoma.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

House Majority Leader Steve Scalise illuminates what happened behind closed doors after Kevin McCarthy’s ousting as well as what to expect next on impeachment; why he will vote against expelling George Santos; and how Speaker Mike Johnson is trying to use immigration to tame hardliners when it comes to the spending showdown with Joe Biden. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Steve Scalise is the House Majority Leader. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

John Judis and Ruy Teixeira, co-authors of “The Emerging Democratic Majority,” are back with a new book that argues that the Democrats are imperiled by a “shadow party” that is forcing them into “radical” positions on cultural issues and diverting them away from their core economic issues. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.John Judis is editor at large at Talking Points Memo and co-author of "Where Have All the Democrats Gone?"Ruy Teixeira is a Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and co-author of "Where Have All the Democrats Gone?"Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Australian TV hosts Chas Licciardello and John Barron explain how American politics has influenced culture and government in their homeland; and which single feature of Australian politics could fix many of America’s biggest problems. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Chas Licciardello is a comedian and co-host of Planet America.John Barron is a journalist, broadcaster and co-host of Planet America.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this week’s episode of Deep Dive, Pulitzer Prize winner David Leonhardt joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to talk about his new book and what it says about how Democrats can save their relationship with working class voters. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.David Leonhardt is a senior writer for the New York Times and the author of "Ours Was the Shining Future: The Story of the American Dream."Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Since the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision in June 2022, the GOP has repeatedly paid a price electorally for its stance on abortion. The chaos has been dispiriting to the anti-abortion activists who helped engineer the Dobbs decision in the first place. And now they think they have a new political strategy to get Republicans out of their defensive crouch and to start winning again on this issue. The woman leading this effort is Marjorie Dannenfelser, the head of Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America, one of the most important institutions in the GOP firmament. She’s known as the woman who killed Roe. Dannenfelser and her colleagues are plotting, financing, and staffing the Republican Party’s counter attack on abortion. Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza sat down with her at SBA’s Virginia headquarters this week, partly because she had some news she wanted to share about how and where anti-abortion activists are making their first big move. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Marjorie Dannenfelser is the president of Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza joins Rep. Mike Lawler (R-N.Y.) to learn how he and other GOP moderates, institutionalists, and Biden-district Republicans have organized against Jim Jordan’s campaign to be speaker of the House… and what the endgame is for Republicans to escape this mess. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mike Lawler is the representative for New York's 17th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jon Finer, President Joe Biden’s principal deputy national security adviser, opens up to Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza about how the administration is approaching some of the thorniest problems related to the war in Israel, including: striking the right balance between supporting Israel and expressing concerns about an extreme response; Biden’s warnings to Iran; and whether America should now consider itself at war with Hamas. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jon Finer is the White House deputy national security adviser.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marty Baron ran The Washington Post’s newsroom for nine years. In that time, Marty clashed with then-president Donald Trump. He pacified rebellions from his younger and increasingly more ideological staff. And he partnered with Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos to take on arguably the biggest disrupter of all: technology. He’s written about all of this — and a lot more — in his new book, "Collision of Power: Trump, Bezos, and The Washington Post." Today, Marty is joining Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza to spill the tea on what actually happened between Bezos and Trump; what the media should be doing to earn your trust; and whether billionaires like Jeff Bezos are secretly pulling the strings behind closed doors. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Marty Baron is the retired executive editor of The Washington Post. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The center of presidential politics this week was the swing state of Michigan. Trump won the longtime Democratic stronghold in 2016, and Biden won it back in 2020. It will be pivotal again in 2024. And that’s why both candidates flew to metro Detroit on consecutive days this week to insert themselves into the United Auto Workers’ strike against the so-called “Detroit Three” — General Motors, Ford, and Stellantis, the company that owns Chrysler. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza joins Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-Mich.), the House’s key player when it comes to the UAW strike, for a conversation about the strike’s political consequences, why she thinks that Democrats may be in danger of losing Michigan in 2024, and why the strike’s biggest sticking point is something you might not even have heard about. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Debbie Dingell is the representative for Michigan's 6th district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After losing a series of votes this week to avoid a government shutdown, Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy has effectively lost his majority. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza asks the number two Democratic leader in the House, Minority Whip Katherine Clark, what price McCarthy will have to pay for Democrats to lend their votes to passing a CR and fending-off a potential challenge to his speakership. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Katherine Clark is the House Minority Whip and the representative for Massachusetts's 5th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It would be easy to look at the House of Representatives and assume that the members of the Freedom Caucus — and not Speaker Kevin McCarthy — are the ones who are actually in charge. But is that actually true? On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with one of the top House moderates, Ohio Congressman Dave Joyce. Joyce is the Chairman of the Republican Governance Group, the pre-eminent faction for GOP centrists; and he’s also a senior appropriator, which means he’s one of the people who has to figure out how to avoid the possible government shutdown lurking at the end of the month. Ryan caught-up with Joyce in his Washington office to learn how the Republicans you don’t see quoted on Breitbart are approaching the tumultuous issues gripping the lower chamber. They talked at length about the rationale behind McCarthy’s new impeachment gambit; if and how the Speaker can claw together the votes to avoid a government shutdown; the odds that McCarthy will face a vote to remove him as Speaker; and what it’s really like in private between Joyce and members of the Freedom Caucus he battles in public. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.David Joyce is the representative for Ohio's 14th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What makes President Joe Biden? We’re all pretty familiar with Vice President Biden and Senator Biden. But in his latest iteration as commander-in-chief, it hasn’t been as easy to see inside his mind. Cracking into Biden’s brain and inside the White House has been a challenge for the media. He’s surrounded by a tight “clan” of family and advisors who have achieved Biden lifer status — and they don’t often leak. It consists of his sister Valerie, and the five advisers known as the Quint: Steve Ricchetti, Mike Donilon, Anita Dunn, Bruce Reed, and now former chief of staff Ron Klain. It’s been a notoriously tough circle to penetrate. But now one person has done it: Franklin Foer, who spent the last few years inside the heads of Biden and his team and has written the definitive account of President Biden’s first two years in office called “The Last Politician: Inside Joe Biden's White House and the Struggle for America's Future.” The book was originally supposed to be about the first one hundred days. But the story was too interesting to stop. Next, he planned to wrap up after the passage of Build Back Better. The book ended up growing into a two-year project that ends tidily with the midterms. But where the book really shines when it grapples with the core of who Biden is — both psychologically and ideologically. Whether you love Biden or hate him, Frank’s book just might change your mind about how you understand him. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza sits down with Frank Foer to dig into the revelations that fill the pages of his new book, like how pivotal Biden’s inner circle is to his decision making; his relationship with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy; the low point of the presidency so far; and what’s in store for Biden as he prepares for another run as the oldest sitting president in history. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Franklin Foer is a staff writer at The Atlantic. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Wednesday night, eight Republican presidential candidates gathered in Milwaukee for the first GOP primary debate. There was a lot on the line for each of them. But there was also an enormous amount at stake for the news organization that hosted the debate: Fox News. Consider the cross currents that the two Fox moderators, Martha McCallum and Bret Baier, had to deal with: First there was Trump, who refused to participate and lashed out at Fox and its talent, including Baier, on social media. Then there was Tucker Carlson, McCallum and Baier’s former star colleague who is in messy litigation with the network, and who nabbed Trump for himself and counter-programmed the evening with an interview that aired simultaneously with the Fox debate. Then there was Rupert Murdoch hovering in the background. In the days before the debate there were new reports that the man who runs Fox, MacCallum and Baier’s boss, has his own strong feelings about who the GOP nominee should be. If that isn’t enough, on the eve of the debate, several candidates who didn’t qualify to be on stage threatened to sue. Add to that the challenges of being the ones asking the uncomfortable questions in that arena on Wednesday. The candidates are primed to pounce on you if it serves their political interests. The boisterous crowd of partisans could turn on you at any moment. So what was it like behind the scenes at the Fox News debate? How did the hosts prepare, including for a possible last-minute appearance by Trump? What did they think of the highly caffeinated Mike Pence interrupting them at every turn? What was the deal with DeSantis and Christie during that one hand-raising moment? And whose idea was that UFO question, anyway? On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza asks Martha and Bret those questions and a lot more as they bring us inside what is perhaps the most important event of the GOP primary so far. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Martha MacCallum is the anchor and executive editor of "The Story with Martha MacCallum" on Fox News Channel.Bret Baier is the Fox News Channel's anchor and executive editor of "Special Report with Bret Baier" and chief political anchor of the network.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This coming Wednesday, something big is happening in Milwaukee: the first Republican presidential debate. On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host & Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with North Dakota Governor & GOP presidential candidate Doug Burgum about how he hatched one of the most innovative schemes in memory to qualify for Wednesday's GOP debate; how he’s preparing to compete on the stage with big leaguers like Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump – if Trump shows up; how his background as a conservative in the tech world informs his worldview; and why one photograph of him cleaning a chimney in a tuxedo changed his life. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Doug Burgum is the governor of North Dakota and a GOP presidential candidate.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, almost every Republican running for president is headed to the Iowa State Fair, famous for its fried Twinkies and statues of farm animals made out of butter and — every four years — extremely embarrassing photos of candidates eating unwieldy treats. The Iowa State Fair also kicks off a new more intense period of the Republican primary season as nationally televised debates begin this month and the five month countdown to the Iowa Caucuses begins. Iowa’s importance in presidential nomination contests ebbs and flows and this year the state looms as more important than ever. The conventional wisdom among Republicans is that if Donald Trump’s opponents can’t slow him down in Iowa, then the race may be over. Joining Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza for this episode is the man responsible for administering this critical contest – the chairman of the Iowa Republican Party, Jeff Kaufmann. Kaufmann is also a history professor and in the course of this conversation, he teaches a master class on everything you need to know about the Iowa Republican caucuses and what it will take to win them in 2024. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jeff Kaufmann is the Chairman of the Iowa GOP.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 2023, there are two Europes: the Europe of the museums and the beaches – and the real Europe as lived by its people. And that Europe has changed dramatically in recent decades. The end of the Cold War collapsed many of the continent's political barriers. European unification brought countries as diverse as Ireland and Bulgaria under one umbrella. And more recently, a boom in migration, especially from the Islamic world, has changed Europe’s demographics and brought a host of opportunities, challenges, and political changes. Today, the war in Ukraine has both created more solidarity among European nations and highlighted their big differences; and it has rattled the foundation of the region’s economy. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with Ben Judah, author of “This Is Europe: The Way We Live Now,” about why this history means that you probably need to update your assumptions about Europe; and why it is that many American policymakers simply don’t understand the realities that leaders like Emmanuel Macron, Rishi Sunak, and Giorgia Meloni have to live with. Some of the reasons why will be familiar to Americans: immigration, crime, and the rise of right-wing populism. But according to Ben’s new book, their implications for Europe are quite different from those here in the United States. And they open a whole tin of worms for the broader notion of the Western alliance. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Ben Judah is a journalist, academic and the author of "This is Europe: The Way We Live Now"Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, the action in the Senate was all about the annual defense authorization – the NDAA. Usually, the argument about what goes into this enormous bill that governs everything the military can and can’t do is a word soup cooked-up by defense nerds. You may recall things like SDI, the GWOT, and closing GITMO. All controversial in their own day, and all eventually resolved through the historically bipartisan NDAA process. But this time around, many in Washington are beginning to wonder if a new set of acronyms is fatally imperiling our armed forces. Issues like DEI, CRT, and abortion may be sinking a bill that has never failed to pass in more than 60 years. It’s setting up a dramatic clash between the House and Senate. On one side, a partisan bill loaded with controversial amendments. On the other, a bipartisan one without all the baggage. Meanwhile in the background, a separate drama is still playing out: that of Sen. Tommy Tuberville’s (R-Ala.) beef with Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin over abortion policy. The combination of these two events has been more than enough to make lawmakers, lobbyists, and service members alike begin to wonder: Is this the year that the NDAA fails? Will this last sacred piece of bipartisanship in Congress succumb to the divisive forces that have sunk many before? Joining the show to discuss the prognosis for this year’s NDAA and the perils of this stand off is a man who knows what it’s like to write one of these bills. Because he has. Many times before. Arnold Punaro is a former staff director at the Senate Armed Services Committee and a retired two-star general. And if you’re a senator involved in national security issues, he’s probably also the guy you call for advice. Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza spoke with him about what the big challenge facing the military is — spoiler, it's not abortion policy; how – or if – Congress has perverted its oversight role of the Pentagon; what, if any, of the right’s objections to military “wokeness” are grounded in facts; and if an NDAA will pass this year at all. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Arnold Punaro is CEO of The Punaro Group and a retired Marine Reserve Major General.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Alejandro Mayorkas was tapped to run DHS – the now 20-year-old behemoth with 260,000 employees created in the aftermath of 9/11 – Mayorkas said that he was determined to be the Secretary of Homeland Security, NOT the Secretary of Immigration. How’s that going? Yesterday, Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza sat down with him on the sidelines of the Aspen Security Forum to find out. Mayorkas’s department is charged with preventing foreign and domestic terrorist attacks. It monitors threats from weapons of mass destruction, protects infrastructure and ensures we’re safe from cyber attacks. What many of DHS’s agencies do have in common is that you often don’t hear much about them unless something really bad has happened. So even if Mayorkas didn’t also oversee immigration, the most fraught of political issues, being DHS secretary – responsible for defending the nation against terrorism, computer hackers, nuclear weapons, and natural disasters – can often be a thankless job. And despite his best attempts, it is Mayorkas’s management of Border Patrol, ICE, and Immigration Services that has dominated his tenure and made him the GOP’s main target of attack in the Biden Cabinet. On this episode of Deep Dive, Ryan and Sec. Mayorkas discuss how the terrorism threat has changed over the last two decades, the challenges of confronting domestic extremism, why the end of Title 42 didn’t lead to the border surge many predicted, the future of TSA, the fentanyl crisis, the prospects of impeachment, and how going through the meat grinder of D.C. politics has changed him. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Alejandro Mayorkas is the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Early one morning in April of 2016 I woke up and seriously contemplated the possibility that I would never be able to generate the strength, focus, and courage to get out of bed. The combination of crippling anxiety, chronic pain, muscle atrophy, and the fascinating mix of pharmaceuticals coursing through my body had, I feared, finally broken me.” Those are the words of Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.), the ranking Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, on the first page of his new book, Lost and Broken. In his book Smith recounts his deeply personal story of suffering through — and eventually overcoming — debilitating mental and physical illness. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Smith joins Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss his difficult journey and some surprising lessons it taught him about the emotional and sometimes dark overtones that are animating American politics. Additionally, Rep. Smith shares some secrets about what’s happening on the Hill right now: whether he thinks this is the year when Congress fails to pass a defense bill, the continuing fallout in the House from the debt limit deal, and whether Kevin McCarthy can rustle-up enough Republican votes to avoid a government shutdown this fall. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Adam Smith is the representative for Washington's 9th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This weekend, President Joe Biden is headed to Europe. His first stop: the U.K. Biden is scheduled to meet with both His Royal Highness King Charles, an old acquaintance and fellow head of state; and the Right Honorable Rishi Sunak, Britain’s prime minister and a fellow head of government – who just visited Biden in Washington this past month. On the agenda for these meetings: climate change, the war in Ukraine, and the “Atlantic Declaration” – that’s the diplomatic term for Biden and Sunak’s push to renew the U.K. and America’s partnership across a host of economic and security issues facing the West. Joining to talk about these issues as well as Britain and America’s special relationship is Karen Pierce, the British Ambassador to the United States. Pierce is one of the U.K.’s most experienced diplomats, having held an array of senior positions including ambassadorships to the U.N., the WTO, and Afghanistan; as well as directing British policy throughout South Asia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan during some key years of the War on Terror. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Pierce tells host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza what Sunak hopes to get out of Biden’s trip to London; how Britain and America’s relationship has changed throughout her many years of service; how the war in Ukraine is driving the two countries closer – and occasionally further apart; who Brits admire the most in our nation’s history; and what her secrets are for dealing with cagey diplomats on the other side of the bargaining table. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Karen Pierce is the British Ambassador to the U.S.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In American politics, there is a small group of leaders who are – to borrow a term from Hollywood – hit makers. Everything they touch seems to turn to gold. There is perhaps no better example of this in Democratic politics than Rahm Emanuel. For those who need a refresher, Rahm is a former Bill Clinton advisor, turned Illinois Congressman, turned DCCC chair, turned Barack Obama chief of staff, turned mayor of Chicago… and currently, he is Joe Biden’s ambassador to Japan. In his new posting, Rahm has been at the forefront of new multi-lateral agreements between the U.S., Japan, South Korea, and the Philippines; he is agitating for allies to stop what he calls “Chinese economic coercion;” and he has been a key player in a controversial effort to legalize same-sex marriage in Japan. This week, Rahm joined Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza to talk about his role organizing our allies around Putin and China; how hardnose politics is actually great for diplomacy; and why – even when you’re dealing with the president of the United States – it’s still much better to beg for forgiveness, than to ask for permission. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Rahm Emanuel is the U.S. Ambassador to Japan.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The big debate in Washington this week is about realism versus idealism. It played out first in foreign policy, when Joe Biden hosted Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi for a state dinner. Biden has made big claims about how democratic ideals are at the heart of American foreign policy; but he spent two days lavishing time and attention on Modi, who is persecuting Muslims and cracking down on public dissent from reporters and political opponents. Biden needs India to be an ally against China and that priority outweighed the instinct to shun Modi for his creeping authoritarianism. We talk about this debate all the time when it comes to American foreign policy. But sometimes that same debate becomes central to American domestic politics as well. And across town, just as Modi was wrapping up his joint address to Congress, evangelical conservatives from across the country were gathering at the Washington Hilton to hear from their own flawed partner: Donald Trump. Well actually not just Trump — Mike Pence, Ron DeSantis, Tim Scott, Chris Christie, and every major Republican candidate is scheduled to speak at the Faith & Freedom Coalition’s Road to Majority conference. But, naturally, Trump is what religious conservatives are talking about. After all, he is the dominant frontrunner for the GOP presidential nomination. And he is the group’s keynote speaker at their gala dinner on Saturday night. And he is also the politician about whom two things can be said: One, his personal and public life makes a mockery of the Christian ideals of evangelical voters. And, two, he is the person who has delivered more policy victories for these same voters than any other president. The questions that evangelicals are debating in Washington this week are whether that deal with Trump was worth it… and whether they should renew the contract. This week’s guest has a lot of thoughts about this. He is the founder and chairman of the Faith & Freedom Coalition, Ralph Reed. Reed was recruited in 1989 by Pat Robertson, the late televangelist, to help run a new organization: the Christian Coalition. It grew to be a powerful political group that cemented social conservatives as a core constituency of the Republican Party and made issues such as opposition to abortion rights non-negotiable policies in the GOP. As you will hear in this episode, Ralph Reed is a political junkie. He left the Christian Coalition in 1997 and soon became one of the key strategists for George W. Bush. And then in Obama’s first term, Reed struck up an unlikely friendship with a guy named Donald Trump. He did for Trump what he does for every presidential candidate who comes calling for his advice: he explained how to win over evangelical voters, who make up about 60 percent of the Republican presidential primary electorate. In his view it worked out pretty well: Evangelicals overwhelmingly backed the thrice-married New York Playboy who famously botched bible verses on the stump. And Trump kept his word when it came to their most important issue: appointing Supreme Court judges who would overturn Roe v. Wade. So what will evangelicals do in the 2024 Republican presidential primary? That is the question that Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza spoke with Reed about in a backroom at the Washington Hilton as his conference attendees filed in. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Ralph Reed is the chairman of the Faith and Freedom Coalition.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Timothy Parlatore spent over a year working for Donald Trump on a number of legal challenges, including the Department of Justice’s probe into Trump’s role in Jan. 6 and the investigation of all those documents stashed at Mar-a-Lago. Parlatore was inside the secret grand jury room in Washington. He oversaw the search for documents in Bedminster. He coordinated the former president’s response to Jack Smith’s subpoena for the national security files that eventually landed Trump in so much trouble. And then, in May, after a long-running internal fight with one of Trump’s top aides, Parlatore quit. Since then, you may have seen him on cable TV talking about why he left the Trump team and offering his insights about the case. But he hasn’t sat down for an in-depth interview like the one you’re about to hear. Parlatore came by Politico’s offices in Arlington and spent the afternoon talking to Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza about why he became a criminal defense attorney in the first place, the moral dilemmas he’s faced representing people who he knew were guilty. And, most important, what it was like being on the inside of Trump’s legal team as Jack Smith and his prosecutors closed in. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Timothy Parlatore is the founder and Managing Partner of Parlatore Law GroupKara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ben Terris is a feature writer at The Washington Post, where he’s carved out a unique role: reporting on what he calls, “the weirdo beat.” While Ben’s colleagues focus on what’s happening on the main stage in politics, he keeps an eye on the freak show that’s happening just out of sight. This week, Ben published his much-anticipated book “The Big Break: The Gamblers, Party Animals, and True Believers Trying to Win in Washington While America Loses Its Mind.” “The Big Break” has a novel argument: that if you want to understand how American politics works in the post-Donald Trump era – then you really, really have to understand Ben’s field of expertise: weirdos. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza joins Ben to discuss the rise and fall of the influential oddballs chronicled in “The Big Break,” and what their stories say about the future of politics. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Ben Terris is a feature reporter covering national politics for The Washington Post.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices