The Clinical Excellence Podcast

Dr. Nundy reflects on building a career that spans patient care, health systems, and technology. He describes thinking of himself as an “accidental technologist” and explains how his interest in innovation grew from a practical question: can new ideas actually work for patients in the real world? The conversation also turns to meaning in medicine. Dr. Nundy talks about why he still finds deep fulfillment in clinic and how personal experiences have shaped his desire to focus on work that creates impact in the near term. Along the way, he shares a thoughtful perspective on how individual physicians fit into the larger healthcare system and where meaningful change can happen.

Dr. Michelle Kittleson and Dr. Adam Cifu get real about the patient-doctor relationship, especially when the stakes are high and the answers are not simple. She shares a small move that can ease a patient’s anxiety in seconds: showing you came prepared, with their story already in your hands. They talk through shared decision making, why patients should steer, and why clinicians still need to give a clear recommendation. They also spend time on the toughest pivot of all: when cure is off the table, what do you say next, and what can you still do to reduce suffering?

Dr. Adam Cifu sits down with cardiologist Dr. Amber Johnson to peel back the curtain on what happens behind the clinic door. Dr. Johnson gets candid about her career evolution, from the reserved, impersonal style she once thought was required of a doctor to a physician who now shares personal experiences to build trust with patients. The two dive into the silent tug-of-war of shared decision making. They explore the challenge of patients who prefer not to choose their treatment path, a hurdle Dr. Johnson encountered firsthand with veterans who were more likely to ask her to simply tell them what to do. It is a raw look at the ego check required when a patient makes a choice the doctor disagrees with and why the most "difficult" cases often lead to the greatest professional joy.

Dr. Adam Cifu talks with Dr. Tom Yates, a general internist and assistant professor at the University of Chicago, about how a physician’s approach to care evolves during the early years of practice and how that shapes patient relationships and clinical decision making. Dr. Yates talks about resisting the urge to rush into problem lists and instead listening for what patients care about most. They discuss why preventive care conversations can be hard when patients are asked to weigh risks and benefits, especially when trust or health literacy is limited, and how building relationships connects to professional fulfillment.

Trauma surgery doesn’t end when the operation is over. Dr. Tanya Zakrison joins Dr. Adam Cifu to reflect on the patient-trauma surgeon relationship, and the frustration of caring deeply for patients while knowing you cannot fix everything that led them there. She discusses how trauma care exposes challenges rooted in patients’ living conditions and circumstances, why surgeons cannot ignore what happens outside the hospital, and how to stay present with patients and families without absorbing all of that pain. The conversation centers on the emotional weight of trauma work and how trauma surgeons learn to carry it without becoming detached or burned out.

Genetic information can raise the stakes of a clinical conversation in ways that go far beyond test results. Dr. Adam Cifu and Dr. Sonia Kupfer reflect on how uncertainty, evolving evidence, and family implications shape the way physicians counsel patients. Kupfer draws from her experience in clinic to illustrate how recommendations may shift over time, while emphasizing the responsibility of helping patients feel supported, informed, and firmly in control of decisions that can affect far more than just one person.

Winner of the 2025 Bucksbaum-Siegler Institute Clinical Excellence Award, Dr. Kertesz reflects on the work of building a relationship before clinical decisions take shape, particularly with patients who arrive wary after difficult experiences with healthcare. He describes how poorly chosen language can instantly make a patient feel judged, forcing him to slow down and work his way back into the interaction. The discussion also underscores why understanding what a patient wants from an encounter is essential to how care is explained and delivered.

Dr. Mary Rinella, a transplant hepatologist, talks with Dr. Adam Cifu about the human side of caring for patients with complex liver disease. She describes how she approaches patients who arrive guarded or resistant and how digging into the fear that drives their behavior helps her build trust with them. The conversation touches on the time she invests in nurturing those relationships and how that closeness often includes patients’ families, especially when she is helping them through difficult moments. Later in the discussion she reflects on the loss of a patient and the emotional weight of that experience, especially given the bonds she forms with both patients and their families.

Dr. Adam Cifu talks with pediatric dermatologist Dr. Sarah Stein about the tricky triangle between doctor, teen, and parent. She reflects on finding the right balance between a young patient’s growing independence and a parent’s need to stay involved, and how empathy, trust, and experience shape those interactions. Together they explore what genuine communication looks like when everyone in the room has a different perspective.

Dr. Julie Oyler talks about the art of balancing social and medical care for older patients. She reflects on how her approach has evolved, from the early days of handwritten notes to today’s tech-assisted visits, and how she’s learned to keep the focus on the person behind the chart. She shares the tug-of-war between efficiency and empathy, the challenge of managing family dynamics in the exam room, and the rewards of long-term relationships that span decades of care. Thoughtful, humble, and a little funny, this one feels close to home for every clinician.

Dr. Jason Alexander joins Dr. Adam Cifu to discuss how the doctor–patient relationship evolves once you’re no longer a new physician. He reflects on the confidence that comes with experience, knowing when to listen and when to step in, and how caring for colleagues and families adds both complexity and meaning. He also shares how embracing uncertainty and being genuine help build trust.

Join us for a conversation with hematologist–oncologist and geneticist Dr. Michael Drazer for a wide-ranging discussion on caring for people with hereditary blood and cancer syndromes, including patients with leukemia. He talks about how watching mentors with very different bedside styles influenced how his approach to the doctor–patient relationship has evolved throughout his career. We also discuss how Dr. Drazer’s clinical work guides his team’s research, shifting the focus from ‘blue sky’ science to studies grounded in his patients’ real-world challenges.

This episode dives into the real-life evolution of the doctor–patient relationship through the eyes of a senior physician. Dr. Alex Lickerman shares how decades in medicine have shaped his approach to balancing authority and empathy while moving toward more relaxed, genuine conversations. He also explains why building trust with patients matters more now than ever, especially in the face of widespread patient misinformation. He reflects on moments where taking the lead, sometimes what might feel paternalistic, can help families make difficult, life-and-death decisions with clarity and compassion. The talk touches on the unique skills needed to care for patients at the end of life. Along the way, you will hear honest takes on the quirks and frustrations that come with the job.

In this season finale episode, Dr. Adam Cifu sits down with transplant nephrologist Dr. Michelle Josephson to explore the unique challenges and opportunities that arise in the later stages of an academic medical career. Dr. Josephson openly discusses the struggle to maintain a sense of relevance, the need to redefine one's priorities and goals, and the bittersweet experience of losing colleagues to retirement and passing. However, she also highlights the freedom and excitement that can come with this transitional phase, allowing her to pursue new global initiatives in areas like green nephrology. This provides an insightful look at navigating the "third phase" of a distinguished career.

In this episode, we speak with Dr. Jennifer Brokaw about her varied and impressive career in medicine. Dr. Brokaw shares how she transitioned from emergency medicine into founding a private practice focused on advanced illness management and end-of-life care, driven by a desire to tackle complex societal challenges she witnessed in the ER. She discusses the unique value she was able to provide as an independent advocate for patients and families, as well as the challenges of building a sustainable business model around these services. Dr. Brokaw's insights offer a fascinating look at alternative paths for doctors beyond traditional clinical roles. This conversation provides an engaging glimpse into one physician's remarkable career journey.

In this installment of our series talking with medical trainees, we're joined by Dr. Ava Ferguson Bryan, a general surgery resident at the University of Chicago. Dr. Ferguson Bryan shares her winding path to medicine, from initially pursuing English and art history, to discovering a passion for surgery during her clinical rotations.She provides an honest look at the challenges and sacrifices of surgical training, including the lengthy 7-8 year commitment and the impact on work-life balance, especially as a woman having children during residency. Dr. Ferguson Bryan also discusses the evolving landscape of surgical education, including competency-based assessments that may allow for more flexibility in training duration.This episode offers valuable insights for aspiring physicians navigating the realities of surgical specialties and the broader effort to diversify the field. Dr. Ferguson Bryan's personal experience provides a nuanced perspective on the progress made, as well as the work still needed to support the next generation of surgeon-trainees.

Gaining an inside look at the realities of medical training, this episode features a conversation with Layne Keating, a chief medical resident at the University of Chicago. Layne shares her experiences navigating the transition from medical school at the Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University to residency, highlighting the importance of being given autonomy and the ability to make real clinical decisions.She explains how this hands-on responsibility, even with the support of her team, has been critical for developing the confidence and problem-solving skills needed to be an effective physician. Layne contrasts this with concerns that overprotecting trainees from having to make tough choices during their education can make the leap to independent practice much more difficult.The conversation also touches on the use of letters of recommendation in the residency application process. Layne and Dr. Adam Cifu discuss how more holistic, thoughtful approaches may be needed to evaluate the suitability of medical trainees.This transparent discussion provides a unique perspective on the highs and lows of the clinical training journey, as well as insights into improving medical education to better prepare the next generation of physicians.To read more:https://medicine.qu.edu/https://www.sensible-med.com/p/letters-of-recommendation-should-fb0

In this episode, we continue our series exploring the experiences of medical trainees. Dr. Adam Cifu is joined by Arman Shahriar, MD, a third-year internal medicine resident at the University of Chicago. Arman shares his nontraditional path to medicine, including teaching in Ecuador and working in the medical device industry. He provides a candid look at residency life, from the grueling schedules to the unexpected challenges and the camaraderie forged during training.Arman is also the author of two compelling articles: On One-Liners and Doing No Harm, which explores the power of language in patient care, and The Wrong Fight—Prior Authorization, a personal account of navigating systemic barriers.To read Dr. Shahriar's above-mentioned articles, check them out here:• On One-Liners and Doing No Harm: https://journals.lww.com/academicmedicine/fulltext/2023/10000/on_one_liners_and_doing_no_harm.24.aspx• The Wrong Fight—Prior Authorization: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaoncology/article-abstract/2813580

Kicking off a series of talks with people in medical training, this episode features third-year student Nihar Rama discussing his experiences and insights so far. Nihar discusses how his personal background as a patient has shaped his empathetic approach to caring for patients. He reflects on the importance of maintaining confidence while also expressing humility, and the challenges of developing strong interpersonal skills alongside medical knowledge. Nihar offers thoughtful perspectives on how medical education could better assess and cultivate the human qualities, beyond just academic acumen, that are essential for becoming an excellent clinician.

In this episode, Dr. Adam Cifu sits down with Dr. Chadi Nabhan—a hematologist, oncologist, author, and healthcare leader—to discuss his inspiring career transitions and his latest book, The Cancer Journey: Understanding Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, and Prevention. They explore the phases of a cancer diagnosis, the emotional toll on patients and caregivers, and the critical role of communication and second opinions. Dr. Nabhan also shares insights from his work at a company advancing AI technology to accelerate clinical trials. He is also the author of Toxic Exposure: The True Story Behind the Monsanto Trials and the Search for Justice.To learn more about Dr. Nabhan's The Cancer Journey and read an article about the book, visit ASCO Connection: https://connection.asco.org/magazine/features/cancer-journey-dr-chadi-nabhan-uses-storytelling-plain-language-simplify-complex.

In this episode, we speak with Dr. Dee Fenner, the first recipient of the Bucksbaum National Award for Clinical Excellence. A trailblazer in the field of urogynecology, Dr. Fenner shares her remarkable journey - from being one of the few women in her medical school class to becoming a nationally recognized expert in pelvic floor disorders and reconstructive surgery.Dr. Fenner discusses how she found her passion in obstetrics and gynecology, and how she helped advance the burgeoning field of urogynecology. She reflects on the importance of creating a safe, comfortable environment for her vulnerable patients, and the challenges of training the next generation of surgeons. As she looks to the future, Dr. Fenner is both excited and apprehensive about how data science and AI will impact patient care. At the same time, she remains focused on mentoring her colleagues and ensuring her department's continued success.

In this episode, Dr. Adam Cifu sits down with Dr. Micah Prochaska to explore the intricate ethical dilemmas surrounding end-of-life care. They delve into the complex issues of patient autonomy, relational autonomy, and the role of families in these deeply personal decisions. Through thought-provoking discussion, they challenge the traditional frameworks and reveal the nuances in balancing medical expertise, personal values, and the well-being of patients and their loved ones. This episode offers a poignant and insightful examination of the ethical quandaries faced by healthcare providers when guiding patients and families through the end-of-life journey.Dr. Prochaska also references a highly influential paper by Daniel P. Sulmasy, MD, PhD, and Lois Snyder, JD, titled "Substituted Interests and Best Judgments: An Integrated Model of Surrogate Decision Making.URL: https://tinyurl.com/yc2y9u5j

How do you measure clinical excellence? Host Dr. Adam Cifu welcomes guest Dr. Anna Volerman to discuss the realities of clinical excellence, diving deep into the challenges of delivering impactful care beyond clinic walls. Dr. Volerman candidly shares her experiences with self-doubt, the importance of understanding patients' daily environments, and her work to address health inequities. Dr. Cifu adds thought-provoking insights on the art of medicine, as together they explore the shift from merely treating patients to transforming systems for better health outcomes. This episode offers a heartfelt look into healthcare's complexities, making it a must-listen for those passionate about medicine’s future.

In this episode, Dr. Adam Cifu chats with Dr. Wei Wei Lee about the essence of clinical excellence, which she defines as the importance of shared vulnerability and meaningful human connection in patient care. Dr. Lee reflects on how advancements in artificial intelligence can threaten these connections if they prioritize efficiency over personal interaction. Join them as they discuss the evolving landscape of medicine and the challenge of maintaining empathy in a technology-driven world.Dive deeper into the fascinating conversations from this episode with two must-see resources related to the themes discussed:Episode featuring Dr. Shah – “AI in Medicine: The Present”: In this insightful episode, Dr. Shah highlights the transformative role of artificial intelligence in healthcare, examining how tools for ambient clinical documentation are changing the way physicians interact with patients. Discover how AI is enhancing clinical encounters by allowing doctors to focus more on care and less on paperwork: AI in Medicine: The Present.Article by Dr. Adam Cifu – “The Moment I Realized AI Will Introduce a Brave New World for Medicine”: In this article, Adam Cifu explores the complex relationship between artificial intelligence and the practice of medicine, cautioning against an over-reliance on technology and emphasizing the irreplaceable role of human clinicians in patient care: Article about AI in Medicine.

What does it take to practice excellent nursing in a busy primary care setting?In this insightful episode, Adam Cifu, MD, sits down with Sybil Caruthers, RN, a nurse with 38 years of experience and a recipient of the Nursing Professional Excellence Award. They discuss the core elements of clinical excellence in nursing, focusing on the vital importance of collaboration and communication among healthcare professionals.Sybil shares her unique journey into the profession, which began unexpectedly. From her early days as an oncology triage nurse to her current role in primary care, she highlights the importance of patient advocacy and adapting to the growing demands of healthcare.Join us as we explore the lessons learned from their journey and the transformative power of teamwork in improving patient outcomes.

Dr. Victoria Barbosa, an expert in dermatology and director of the Hair Loss Program at the University of Chicago, explores the challenges in the patient-doctor relationship within dermatology and alopecia. This episode highlights the impact of cultural understanding and diversity in patient care, including race concordance and discordant care. Dr. Barbosa provides insights into the psychological aspects of hair loss and the importance of empathetic, hopeful communication, while also discussing the role of these factors in fostering strong, trusting patient relationships.

A conversation exploring clinical excellence in physical therapy, examining its crucial role within primary care. This discussion delves into how these elements contribute to exceptional patient outcomes, while also acknowledging the importance of empathy and patient rapport.

We've all heard grand predictions about how AI will transform the future of medicine. But what about the here and now? In this episode, we dive into the ways AI is already reshaping healthcare. Discover how these technologies are not just promises for tomorrow, but are making an impact today. Tune in to explore the exciting developments happening right now and what they mean for the future of medicine.

Dr. Lisa Vinci joins the Clinical Excellence Podcast to discuss the nuances of quality measures in primary care. Delve into the complexities of healthcare metrics and their impact on patient care, with insights on navigating between standardized measures and personalized medicine.

Knowing about the patient who has a disease is as important as knowing about the disease the patient has. But how well do you need to know them?

Ms. Peeples shares her personal story, reflecting on her career, experiences with healthcare providers, and navigating the healthcare system. Drs. Chin and Klein provide insights into their interactions with Ms. Peeples as their patient and their approaches to patient care. The episode explores both positive and challenging experiences in healthcare, emphasizing the importance of good patient-provider relationships and effective communication.

Charles Martinez, a longtime physician and author from Chicago, talks about his life and career.

MK Czerwiec, a nurse, cartoonist, educator, and co-founder of the field of Graphic Medicine, discusses her work and the utility of graphic medicine.

Diane Rogers, a healthcare consultant and leadership coach discusses the challenges of physician coaching, emphasizing the importance of being present for patients and creating a space for meaningful conversations with colleagues. Diane shares insights from her diverse career journey, highlighting the significance of connecting to purpose in healthcare.

Cultivating a career in global health with a worldwide impact.

Working with your doctor to care for your parents.

Dr. Kertesz discusses the winding path to a non-traditional but productive and successful career in academic medicine.

The patient's side of the patient-centered longitudinal care experience.

📢 Announcing the 1st Annual Bucksbaum Institute Clinical Excellence Award

Philosophy's place in medicine, and what does it mean to find your personal “why”.

The dynamics of family planning and its intricate interaction with the fields of medicine, politics, and societal forces are subjects of profound significance.

What is on the minds of premedical students today and how has the pandemic affected the application process?

Can we teach medical students by teaming them up with patients?

Making the family and social history a meaningful part of the medical history.

Many physicians perceive their profession as a vocation. In this episode we talk about how this affects our lives and our practice.

What is lifestyle medicine and how can it add value to traditional primary care medicine.

What needs to be considered when caring for people with whom you work.

A patient recounts years of interacting with the medical field.

Dr. Stacy Lindau, the director of PRISM, of the Program in Integrative Sexual Medicine, talks about discussing sensitive topics with patients.

Two retired internists reflect on how retirement affects one's self-image and how to succeed in retirement.