The Art Law Podcast

Katie and Steve speak with Jay Sanders, Executive Director and Chief Curator of Artists Space, a vanguard artist-centered arts nonprofit, founded in 1972 and located in New York City, about the devastating impact of the pandemic shutdown on small arts nonprofits, as well as the inspiration and community being cultivated in this moment of hardship. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2020/06/01/arts-nonprofits-in-the-pandemic/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Katie and Steve welcome back to the podcast museum director, art commentator, and art historian Max Anderson to discuss what art museums (now closed) are dealing with during the Covid-19 crisis in terms of mission, funding, audience engagement and an uncertain future. They discuss structural issues and practices pre-existing the pandemic that put pressure on museums' stated missions and appeal, as well as potential shifts in focus and priority that may come out of this current moment of reorganization and prioritization. This is the first of several episodes of the Art Law Podcast discussing the impact of the pandemic and its accompanying shut downs on the art world. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2020/05/11/art-museums-in-the-pandemic/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

In this bonus episode, Steve analyzes the recent Second Circuit decision affirming the 2018 decision awarding $6.75 million to the artists of 5Pointz, whose works were whitewashed and torn down by the building's owner in 2013. To put this important decision into a broader context, we have re-released our April 2018 episode on 5Pointz, where we discuss the district court case in which the aerosol artists asserted violations of their moral rights under the Visual Artist Rights Act, the U.S. moral rights statute. In that episode, Steve and Katie discuss the origin and contours of moral rights, how they fit into U.S. copyright law, the story of 5Pointz and the laws around street art and graffiti. They are joined by famous aerosol artist Jonathan Cohen (Meres One), 5Pointz event planner and artist representative Marie Cecile Flageul, and Renee Vara, the artists' expert in the 5Pointz trial. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2020/03/02/moral-rights-in-street-art-the-5pointz-story-revisited/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

This month, we are updating and rereleasing one of our most popular episodes, Art of the Chase: Inside Art Auctions. In this episode, we take a close look at art auctions – how they work, their place in the art market and the rules and regulations that confine/define them. Auctions at Sotheby's and Christie's now regularly net tens and sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars for a single work. Christie's sold Leonardo da Vinci's Salvator Mundi painting for $450 million in 2017, still, by far, the highest price ever garnered by a piece of art at auction. At the same time, much about the auction process remains secret. The identity of the buyer and seller is often known only to the auction house, and the reserve price (below which an artwork will not be sold) is known by the auctioneer but not the bidders. While the auctioneer may not sell a work of art below its reserve price, it can bid on the work below the reserve to get the auction going. Steve and Katie discuss these issues and others having to do with regulation, transparency and potential conflicts, and welcome famous Sotheby's auctioneer Oliver Barker to take us behind the scenes of a big auction. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2019/12/02/art-of-the-chase-inside-art-auctions-revisited/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Steve and Katie discuss two recent art world controversies involving small, local nonprofits seeking to raise money through asset divestment. The di Rosa Center for Contemporary Art in Napa Valley is attempting to deaccession most of its permanent collection of Bay Area art works in the face of vocal art world opposition. In Philadelphia, the proposed sale of the Painted Bride Art Center building by the organization's board, including its one of a kind mosaic mural façade, has raised public protest and legal challenge. Both entities claim they need funds to continue their mission, while critics say the act of selling off the assets at issue in each case directly undercuts such mission. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2019/11/05/arts-organizations-seek-change-via-deaccessioning-the-di-rosa-center-for-contemporary-art-and-painted-bride-art-center/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Steve and Katie have a wide ranging conversation with art historian and former lawyer, Joan Kee, about the topic of her new book, Models of Integrity: Art and Law in Post-Sixties America. Their conversation probes artists' embrace and rejection of legal structures in contemporary America, as well as artistic indifference about and dependence on the law. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2019/10/01/how-artists-mess-with-the-law/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

CORRECTION: After the recording of this podcast, the San Francisco School Board, in the face of community protest, reconsidered its decision to remove the George Washington murals from George Washington High School and will instead cover them. Against the backdrop of global museums distancing themselves from the Sackler name, two highly controversial Whitney Biennials involving activist calls for the destruction and removal of an artwork and, more recently, calls for the resignation of a Board member who made a fortune building a network of defense equipment companies, and numerous other controversies in the United States about the identity of board members, museum donors and artists, Steve and Katie speak with Max Anderson about controversial board members, donors and works of art. Max is currently the President of the Souls Grown Deep Foundation and was previously the Director of the Whitney Museum of Art and the Dallas Museum, among other leading museum director roles. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2019/09/04/museum-controversies-reputational-concerns-and-offensive-art/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Steve and Katie talk about and compare two recent Holocaust-era art cases decided in New York, one in state court on summary judgment and one in federal court on a motion to dismiss grounds. Both cases involve the claims of heirs to recover artwork that left the hands of Jewish owners persecuted by the Nazis, but they otherwise greatly differ. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2019/08/05/recent-new-york-holocaust-era-art-cases-come-out-differently/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Katie and Steve talk with Ben Lewis, author of the new book, The Last Leonardo: The Secret Lives of the World's Most Expensive Painting, about the history and ultimate sale by Christie's auction house in November 2017 of the painting Salvator Mundi which they attribute to Leonardo Da Vinci for just over $450.3 million. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2019/07/01/the-last-leonardo-with-ben-lewis/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Katie and Steve speak with Laura Patten and Michael Shepard about financial crimes, including money laundering, involving art. They discuss high profile examples of art-related financial crime, the reality and challenges of compliance for galleries, dealers and other art market participants, and the regulatory landscape in the U.S. and Europe. Laura formerly worked with the CIA and FBI on high stakes art crime investigations. Michael has worked for years on anti-money laundering and financial crimes investigations and programs. Both now work with Deloitte's art and finance initiative and financial crimes practice. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2019/04/23/art-and-financial-crimes/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

In this episode of the podcast, Steve and Katie are in conversation with Jason Bailey, the founder of the Artnome blog and host of the Dank Rares blockchain art podcast about technology and fine art. With a background in art and tech, Jason is one of the foremost authorities on art and technology. The conversation with Jason is wide-ranging from blockchain, provenance, smart contracts, digital art, cryptocurrency, blockchain-driven auctions, privacy, and generative art. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2019/03/04/technologizing-fine-art/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

This month Katie and Steve talk about a few important art law cases from 2018 ranging from Nazi looting, to Italian fisherman discovering an ancient Greek statue, to the risks catalogue raisonné committees face when offering even indirect opinions on authenticity. The specific cases discussed are Von Saher v. Norton Simon Museum of Art at Pasadena, No. 16-56308 (9thCir. 2018); the Getty Bronze case decided by the Italian Court of Cassation; and Mayor Gallery Ltd. v. The Agnes Martin Catalogue Raisonné LLC, No. 655489/2016, 2018 WL 1638810 (N.Y. Sup. Ct. Apr. 5, 2018). Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2019/02/06/2018-art-law-litigation-stories/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Katie and Steve speak with Nanne Dekking, the founder and CEO of Artory and Chairman of the European Fine Art Fair, about Artory's efforts to use blockchain to create a transparent registry of art sales, the general challenges to transparency in the fine art market, the problem of detecting fakes and forgeries and trustworthy counterparties, and blockchain's limitations. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2019/01/07/the-promise-of-blockchain-transparency-in-the-art-market/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Katie and Steve speak with Philip Hoffman, founder and CEO of The Fine Art Group, about art funds, art financing, and financial guarantees of auctions sales. They also explore how art is performing as an asset class. Philip started the first "art fund" in 2002, and he is one of the world's leading experts on the financialization of art. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/12/03/the-financialization-of-art-with-philip-hoffman/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Artist Aviva Rahmani speaks to Steve and Katie about her artistic practice investigating and using the law. Her current work, Blued Trees Symphony, is a musical and visual art work installed along miles of proposed pipeline expansion on land subject to possible eminent domain. Rahmani has copyrighted the work and plans to use the Visual Artist Rights Act to prevent the art's destruction, thereby frustrating the building of pipeline. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/11/08/artist-series-aviva-rahmanis-work-with-vara-land-use-and-environmental-law/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Katie and Steve get an update from attorney Nicholas O'Donnell about the status of the lawsuit he brought on behalf of certain members of the Berkshire Museum for breach of fiduciary duty, among other claims, in relation to the Museum's sale of much of its valuable art collection to pay for operating and capital expenses. While much of the art has been sold, the members fight on. Nick explains the unusual posture of the case to our listeners. *Note: On Monday, the Massachusetts Appeals Court ended the Berkshire Museum deaccessioning legal saga by upholding a decision by the court that members of the Berkshire Museum do not have standing to sue the Museum challenging the conduct of its Board of Directors. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/10/02/bonus-episode-berkshire-museum-litigation-update-its-not-over/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Steve and Katie discuss the Nazis' complicated and perverse relationship with fine art with attorney and author Nicholas O'Donnell. Nick is the author of the recent book, A Tragic Fate: Law and Ethics in the Battle Over Nazi-Looted Art, which tells the story of stolen and appropriated art in World War II Europe and how the U.S. legal system has been instrumental in dealing with claims for restitution decades later. Steve, Katie and Nick start with the historical landscape in 1930s Europe, and discuss some the most contentious and ongoing disputes. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/10/01/nazi-looted-art-legal-remedies-and-limitations/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

On this bonus episode, Katie and Steve discuss the recent SCOTUS case Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, 584 U.S. ___ (2018). In this case, a baker claimed his First Amendment free exercise and free speech rights were violated when he was found in violation of a Colorado statute prohibiting disparate treatment based on sexual orientation in public accommodations for refusing to make and sell a wedding cake to a gay couple. The baker refused to make the wedding cake because of his religious objections to gay marriage. Although the controlling decision of the Supreme Court only dealt narrowly with the baker's free exercise, religious discrimination claim, free expression issues lurked in the background and were taken up directly and forcefully in Justice Thomas' partial concurrence. Katie and Steve discuss the free expression part of the case and its real or imagined relationship to artist's rights and government censorship of art. The Art Law Podcast is excited to showcase new musical compositions by Chris Thompson. Chris is a New York City-based music producer, arranger, and percussionist, who has been a longstanding member of the renowned contemporary music ensemble, Alarm Will Sound. Chris has also performed, recorded, or arranged for a long list of internationally recognized artists and ensembles. You can learn more about Chris and his music on his website, www.chrispthompson.com, where you can also listen to and purchase his most recent album, Lot Hero. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/07/27/is-cake-art-and-entitled-to-first-amendment-free-speech-protections/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

On this month's episode, Steve and Katie dive into the charged topic of censorship. With guest Professor Amy Adler they talk about government and non-government attempts to censor art, what the legal boundaries are and where the law actually has little if nothing to say about censorship of art. They describe applicable First Amendment doctrine, apply it to art and examine particular examples of art "censorship" from the culture wars of the 1990s through today, from both the political right and left. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/07/02/art-censorship-and-the-first-amendment/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Katie and Steve give an update on the first round of auction sales as part of the Berkshire Museum's court sanctioned deaccessioning plan. They discuss the results of the sales, the museum's current stance, and where that leaves us (hint: dissatisfied). Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/06/11/bonus-episode-berkshire-museum-deaccessioning-begins/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

On this month's podcast, we take a close look at art auctions – how they work, their place in the art market and the rules and regulations that confine/define them. Auctions at Sotheby's and Christie's now regularly net tens and sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars for a single work. Christie's recently sold Leonardo da Vinci's Salvator Mundi painting for $450 million, by far the highest price ever garnered by a piece of art at auction. At the same time, much about the auction process remains secret. The identity of the buyer and seller is often known only to the auction house, and the reserve price (below which an artwork will not be sold) is known by the auctioneer but not the bidders. While the auctioneer may not sell a work of art below its reserve price, it can bid on the work below the reserve to get the auction going. Steve and Katie discuss these issues and others having to do with regulation, transparency and potential conflicts, and welcome famous Sotheby's auctioneer Oliver Barker to take us behind the scenes of a big auction. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/05/10/art-of-the-chase-inside-art-auctions/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Katie and Steve update listeners on the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court's decision approving the settlement reached between the Attorney General and the Berkshire Museum, which allows the Museum to sell 40 of its most valuable works of art through Sotheby's with some (minor) conditions. Katie and Steve go over the terms of the settlement and discuss their reservations about the form (if not substance) of this resolution. Since the recording of this bonus episode, it has been reported that the yet to open Lucas Museum in Los Angeles will purchase the painting Shuffleton's Barbershop, Norman Rockwell's iconic masterpiece. The rest of the works will be sold gradually at auction until a total of $55 million in proceeds is reached. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/04/18/bonus-episode-berkshire-museum-update-settlement-approved/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

On this month's podcast we discuss the non-economic "moral rights" of artists in the context of the famous 5Pointz aerosol art mecca in Long Island City, Queens that was whitewashed and torn down in 2013. In the ensuing litigation, the aerosol artists asserted violations of their moral rights under the Visual Artist Rights Act, the U.S. moral rights statute. In a surprise to many, they recently won $6.7 million in damages after succeeding on these claims. The art, however, was permanently lost. Steve and Katie discuss the origin and contours of moral rights, how they fit into U.S. copyright law, the story of 5Pointz and the laws around street art and graffiti. They are joined by famous aerosol artist Jonathan Cohen (Meres One), 5Pointz event planner and artist representative Marie Cecile Flageul, and Renee Vara, the artists' expert in the 5Pointz trial. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/04/09/5pointz-and-the-moral-rights-of-artists/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Scientist Jamie Martin talks with us about wine forger Rudy Kurniawan, his work investigating wine fraud and the similarities between wine and art. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/03/19/bonus-clip-jamie-martin-on-wine-fraud/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

On this month's podcast we discuss the role of science in fine art. Specifically, what can science tell us about a work of art's origin and authenticity? Can science help us discover fakes and forgeries undetected by traditional connoisseur style observation? We are joined by the famous art scientist Jamie Martin to discuss these issues, recount famous forgery scandals, and delve into his techniques and practices. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/03/12/what-can-science-tell-us-about-art/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

Katie and Steve give listeners an update on the Berkshire Museum deaccessioning controversy. The Massachusetts Attorney General and the Museum have reached an agreement, pending approval by the Supreme Judicial Court, permitting sales of up to $55 million with the famous Norman Rockwell painting Shuffleton's Barbershop going to an undisclosed museum. The Rockwell sons have dropped out of the litigation, but the other plaintiffs oppose the compromise and are still fighting. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/02/26/bonus-episode-update-on-the-berkshire-museum-saga-the-ag-and-museum-agree-to-sales/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

In our first full-length episode, we discuss the Berkshire Museum's controversial decision to sell off 40 works of iconic art from its permanent collection to raise funds to rebrand itself as a science and natural history museum, and build a large endowment. Only after the regional museum had signed an agreement with Sotheby's auction house to deaccession these works, did the museum announce its plans to the public. Museum and cultural groups, the fine arts community, and certain local constituents have passionately opposed these plans. Other stakeholders and commentators have strongly supported the museum's efforts to monetize its collection and rebrand. We will discuss both the ethical and legal issues around deaccessioning and the Berkshire Museum's actions in particular. We are joined by the financial and art-market journalist, Felix Salmon. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/02/12/can-a-museum-sell-your-art-the-berkshire-museum-saga-as-a-cautionary-tale/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast

In our introductory episode we introduce ourselves and discuss the podcast's theme of exploring topics where art intersects with and interferes with the law, and vice versa. We preview upcoming episodes, including our first full length episode on when and how museums may sell art from their collections (known as deaccessioning) and the public outcry these decisions have. Other episodes will explore artist moral rights and street art, censorship of art, scientific analysis of art and authenticity scandals, appropriation art and the limits of copyright, art and activism, the rise of art financing, art auctions and Nazi looted art and cultural property disputes. Episodes will feature discussions of current events and guest commentary. Notes for this episode: http://artlawpodcast.com/2018/01/19/the-art-law-podcast-conversations-at-the-intersection-of-art-and-law-2/ Follow the Art Law Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/artlawpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@artlawpodcast