That's Not Real Climbing

Jackie was the routesetting director at the Pro Climbing League (PCL) comp and is also the co-founder of Kilter! In this episode, we’ll learn more about the unique challenges that came with setting for PCL, why she thinks it’s important to have more women setting for women’s comps, and how YOU could maybe try climbing the same exact boulders set at PCL.Guest links:Kiter’s WebsiteJackie’s InstagramPro Climbing League WebsiteKilter YoutubeReference links:Underrated holdThank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro1:20 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!2:00 - Still cleaning up from PCL5:42 - Interesting Kilter free-standing option7:34 - Getting into climbing, setting, and Kilter 13:38 - The political path to becoming an IFSC setter15:34 - Starting the Woman Up Comps20:00 - What grade do you need to climb to be a route setter?22:31 - AUDIENCE Q: How did you build the PCL routesetting team?28:46 - What made setting different for PCL32:09 - How to get separation36:30 - AUDIENCE Q: Was this speed bouldering, was women's setting too easy?41:57 - Is sanding down holds fair?!43:47 - Why it's hard to calibrate for female competitors51:16 - How boulder changeover worked 55:37 - The slab that didn't get shown58:24 - Different competition strategies1:03:27 - AUDIENCE Q: Harder to gauge setting than World Cup?1:04:18 - AUDIENCE Q: Did the setting matter more than a World Cup?1:07:04 - AUDIENCE Q: Mixed gender events in the future?1:09:13 - AUDIENCE Q: idea - 2 betas per boulder?1:11:12 - AUDIENCE Q: Are setters more impressed or annoyed by beta breaks?1:17:23 - AUDIENCE Q: What makes Kilter stand out? 1:22:30 - Underrated hold?1:25:02 - Shoutouts and long work hours1:26:51 - YOU can reset the PCL climbs and experience them!

Mickael is a french boulderer and he is the bouldering world champ from Bern 2023. In this episode, we have an extremely honest conversation about how growing up poor motivated him to make money as a climber, why he stuck with climbing despite the lack of financial prospects, what his training looks like which includes warming up with 80 pull-ups, and of course, what happened during the Bern world champ finals. Shoutout to Madrock for hosting this interview at their headquarters!Guest links:Mickael’s InstagramReference links:Climbing with Jonathan Sin VideoThank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topicsTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro1:30 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!3:46 - Starting climbing with his brother Bassa7:45 - AUDIENCE Q: Being one of the few black climbers in the IFSC13:39 - Affording climbing when growing up poor24:31 - Pro climbing only pays enough for the present28:10 - Why he would not choose climbing in hindsight30:51 - Why he still chose climbing34:34 - AUDIENCE Q: Will you ever compete again in the IFSC? 38:33 - The goal: be rich45:25 - Bern World Champs finals boulders53:26 - Encountering no-tex for the first time ever1:01:59 - Mickael's crazy pull up training1:06:12 - How to work on your technique1:11:47 - The secret to French slab1:14:28 - Why he trains alone 1:21:59 - Keeping up with the evolution of climbing1:25:44 - His future in climbing?1:31:01 - New climbing goal1:33:38 - AUDIENCE Q: Who were your role models growing up?1:34:46 - AUDIENCE Q: What's your family like?1:39:28 - AUDIENCE Q: How to maintain strength without getting injured?1:44:50 - Where to find Mickael

Mo is a paraclimber in the AU2 class, and she is trying to qualify for the 2028 Paralympics! She has been climbing for over 22 years and had actually retired from competing…until hearing about the Paralympics. In this episode, we’ll learn more about what it’s like climbing with a stump, whether outdoor, indoor, or comp setting is most friendly to her impairment, we’ll talk about petty drama in the community, and what sport shopping is in the Paralympics.Guest links:Mo’s InstagramMo’s WebsiteReference links:Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topicsTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro1:18 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!1:59 - Lifting at a bro-y gym3:28 - The 'stump' impairment7:40 - Getting into climbing and competing13:39 - Thoughts on gym setting for her stump 22:10 - Becoming a real sport means drama28:16 - "Training" back then vs real training now29:29 - World Cup appearances 2026 and 202730:55 - What we know about Paralympics qualifications32:18 - How the Paralympics have changed paraclimbing35:49 - Paralympic "Sport shopping"38:09 - Heartbreak over which sport classes got chosen for the Paralympics42:17 - What her training will look like to qualify at 39 years old46:44 - Audience Q: What does the process look like to qualify for Paralympics?48:59 - Dealing with comp nerves50:49 - Is outdoor climbing more friendly for her stump?52:38 - Outdoor projects and first ascents58:00 - AUDIENCE Q: Favorite comp memory?1:01:02 - AUDIENCE Q: Podium cupcake story?1:03:20 - AUDIENCE Q: Getting sponsored by North Face and tips for getting sponsors 1:06:20 - Words of wisdom and where to find Mo

Rachel is a Team GB coach and also Erin McNeice’s personal coach! She started as an athlete and competed in youth worlds, but moved down the coaching path shortly after. In this episode, we’ll talk about performance anxiety as an athlete, the difficulties she faced being taken seriously as a young female coach, and we’ll get insight into team GB’s training as well as Erin’s insanely huge team of coaches.Guest links:Rachel’s InstagramRachel’s YoutubeReference links:Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topicsTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro1:23 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!2:03 - Getting ready for British Bouldering Champs4:41 - Performance anxiety as an athlete8:59 - Being "realistic" on your performance13:46 - Becoming a coach15:44 - AUDIENCE Q: Difference between coaching youth vs senior?20:48 - Weirdness of coaching your past competition23:47 - Lack of trust in female coaches31:44 - AUDIENCE Q: What advice would you give to aspiring female coaches?34:29 - Erin's crazy huge team of coaches!40:23 - Team GB's philosophy on training style43:48 - Erin's 1 weird weakness...45:47 - Overrated and underrated training techniques?50:17 - Climbing goals53:57 - What's better than coaching at the Olympics?56:44 - AUDIENCE Q: Why was GB Climbing funding so bad?58:43 - AUDIENCE Q: Team GB is so strong right now, how has that impacted camaraderie amongst athletes?1:03:05 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you coach the mental side of competition? 1:07:53 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you think new comps like PCL will impact the scene for athletes and coaches?1:10:05 - AUDIENCE Q: Tips for new coaches?1:12:47 - Where to find Rachel

Emma is a boulderer on Team GB. 2025 was her debut in the senior world cup circuit and she already made a world cup finals! However, if you don’t recognize her, it may be because that was Prague where her finals round got rained out. In this episode, we’ll go over ALL the mishaps that happened at Prague including an allergic reaction, and we’ll learn about her training schedule, team GB, the climbing culture in commercial gyms, and how often she goes through climbing shoes, which was MIND BLOWING.Guest links:Emma’s InstagramReference links:Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topicsTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro1:31 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!2:11 - My annual stretching resolution5:29 - Used to do 6 days on 1 day off?!9:29 - Getting into climbing and competing11:47 - First year in the Senior Circuit14:28 - Starstruck warming up next to Miho & Janja16:02 - AUDIENCE Q: Advice for youth climbers transitioning to senior?17:02 - Climbing styles20:12 - Prague allergic reaction disaster24:59 - Prague finals getting rained out27:31 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you feel about the mental side of comp climbing?29:51 - Pretty decent prize money! :o31:40 - Being a taller climber32:45 - Team GB training in commercial gyms38:09 - British Youtube + Zoella39:47 - Season expectations?42:14 - Toxic Gym Culture?46:45 - Outdoor Climbing47:55 - Enjoying sedentary activities50:29 - Trying to balance training with school53:27 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you decide what gyms to train at?55:12 - AUDIENCE Q: Making climbing shoes last?59:09 - AUDIENCE Q: Favorite boulder from Brussels European cup?1:00:35 - AUDIENCE Q: What's the difference between TC and world cups?1:02:42 - AUDIENCE Q: Does your brother climb harder than you yet?1:04:43 - Words of wisdom and where to find Emma

This is Charlie’s second time on the podcast and he’s back with a big announcement! For those who aren’t familiar, Charlie preceded Matt Groom as the IFSC/World Climbing commentator. This time, he’s back to talk about the brand new competition series, Pro Climbing League. In this episode, we’ll go over all the details of what a PCL competition will look like, the challenges they faced the past 5 years putting this together, and I’m diving into all the finances as well.Guest links:PCL WebsitePCL InstagramCharlie’s InstagramReference links:Solo Documentary (Kayaking Story)Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro1:33 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!2:13 - PCL test event3:32 - IFSC/World Climbing Background6:17 - What is Pro Climbing League?11:18 - Live routesetting during a competition15:21 - YOU may be able to compete!19:25 - Hardest part of setting up a climbing league24:25 - Why PCL was started29:16 - AUDIENCE Q: What prompted the head to head format?34:18 - AUDIENCE Q: Did you consult with athletes for this format?40:00 - AUDIENCE Q: Challenges broadcasting this comp?44:22 - Getting sponsor money for the league47:08 - Most expensive part53:00 - AUDIENCE Q: What will the prize money look like?1:00:07 - I'm addicted to the concept of sports betting1:05:08 - What does success look like?1:08:51 - AUDIENCE Q: Future schedule and locations?1:11:18 - AUDIENCE Q: What aspect of the format excited athletes the most?1:14:16 - AUDIENCE Q: Will you use adjustable walls for the comp?1:17:07 - Where to find PCL deets!

Declan and Zoe just competed at the Fukuoka exhibition team event for team USA where they climbed in all 5 boulder and lead rounds! In this episode, we’ll learn about their unorthodox climbing training program here in San Diego, how team selection and strategy worked at Fukuoka, and whether there was added pressure climbing with a team and coach present.Guest links:Declan’s InstagramZoe’s InstagramReference links:Fukuoka Competition PlaylistYank n yard stream: Highball boulders compThank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro1:23 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!2:03 - Starting climbing and competing4:48 - Strength training BAD?!10:18 - Japan traveling11:50 - Fukuoka team event selection process14:28 - Difficulty of the climbs18:37 - Talking to the coach during the comp20:59 - Pressure climbing with a coach and teammates23:51 - Team competition strategies28:08 - 5 rounds in 3 days31:06 - First time competing on IFSC livestream33:15 - The stress of youth competitions35:34 - World Cup climbing is uncomfortable40:23 - Lead vs boulder preference44:37 - Future climbing + education goals49:26 - Now we're just glazing San Diego54:41 - Audience Q: Anything you would've wanted to change with the team event?58:59 - AUDIENCE Q: Memories/advice from youth training?1:02:17 - Being known as the "benchwarmers' benchwarmers"1:03:08 - Outdoor goals1:05:17 - Beating Elden Ring1:06:28 - Relationship advice from 18 year olds!1:09:13 - Words of wisdom + where to find Zoe and Declan

You may have heard of him as the slab master, but Hannes is a climber on Team Belgium who just recently got silver in boulder at Arco Rockmasters and also won a bronze in Innsbruck this past 2025 season! In this episode, we’ll go over his 2025 season, get his tips on slab climbing, and learn about how he tries to stay in the right mindset during stressful competitions.Guest links:Hannes’ InstagramReference links:Amazing Arco Rockmaster Slab TopThe Backflip of AngerThank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro1:12 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!1:56 - Elbow surgery!4:20 - Rockmasters reflection10:55 - Getting into climbing and competing 15:27 - Transitioning out of youth comps17:24 - 2025 season reflection22:41 - Comps are going back to old-school climbs26:08 - Instagram influencing world cups28:44 - Staying in shape throughout a long competition season32:10 - Lead vs boulder preference35:43 - Training schedule + lifting vs gaining weight43:12 - Pressure being the slab master47:31 - Top slab tips49:45 - The fickle mental game of comps52:58 - Power of visualization for mindset56:55 - The backflip of anger!!1:00:16 - Taking his driving test1:05:03 - 2026 goals1:06:44 - AUDIENCE Q: What is the language situation in team Belgium?1:09:37 - AUDIENCE Q: Do you think calisthenics/gymnastics is necessary now in comp climbing?1:11:35 - AUDIENCE Q: How to stay calm during competitions?1:16:43 - Words of wisdom + where to find Hannes

Ben is a climber on Team USA and hold shaper for Pusher holds! In this episode we’ll get some insight into the grades of world cup boulders, how depression, anxiety, and ADHD shapes his relationship with climbing, how he balances working as a routesetter with training, and get his thoughts on hold shaping.Guest links:Ben’s InstagramReference links:Seoul World Champs Boulder SemisThe Boss holdThank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro1:10 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!1:53 - World champs experience11:51 - Difficulty of semis boulders at world cups18:33 - Getting into climbing and competing22:36 - Climbing as self-medication for ADHD30:20 - Training routine...or lack thereof38:44 - Actually a lead climber45:21 - MORE power boulders!51:55 - Competitiveness with Colin55:11 - Becoming a hold shaper59:00 - Good holds vs bad holds1:09:54 - Thoughts on no tex1:20:05 - 2026 goals1:21:56 - AUDIENCE Q: Did you really start climbing at 2?1:26:19 - AUDIENCE Q: What kept you motivated to keep trying after failures at nationals1:30:53 - AUDIENCE Q: What local climbers helped you growing up?1:33:51 - Shoutouts + where to find Ben

Annie is a climber on Team USA and she had an amazing world cup season this year with 2 boulder golds and a lead gold and even more podiums! In this episode we’ll learn about what goes through her mind during her crazy beta breaks, what her training routine looks like, and how gym access really influences performance.Guest links:Annies’s InstagramAnnie’s Xiaohungshu (red book)Reference links:Women’s Boulder Final Seoul World ChampsThank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro0:56 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!1:39 - Jetlag + travels5:29 - Growing up in a climbing family7:09 - Static + slow climbing style10:07 - Regretting static beta breaks??12:08 - Timing out in lead18:22 - 2026 goals20:49 - Annie's training plan24:32 - Lack of gym access27:43 - Post-high school plans30:22 - Outdoor climbing33:38 - AUDIENCE Q: Can you still be an elite climber without passion?35:43 - Audience Q: Mindset during comps?41:36 - AUDIENCE Q: Tips for endurance?42:26 - Audience Q: Advice on how to break dynos?43:23 - AUDIENCE Q: Is it hard previewing climbs with other athletes?45:57 - Outro and where to find Annie

Sagi has been the German team’s bouldering coach since 2022! In this episode, we’ll get insight into Team Germany’s training and challenges, hear why he thinks the losses hurt the coaches more than the competitors, we’ll get a story about his experience as a homeless person while in the US, and most importantly, we’ll DEBUNK his famous statement in the Magnus video that Olympic qualifiers will still be in the combined format for 2028!Guest links:Sagi’s InstagramReference links:IFSC Format Experiment Upcoming CompThank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.comFollow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastJoin the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zpJoin Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcastTimestamps of discussion topics0:00 - Intro1:40 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!2:24 - Youth worlds + Spain travels4:59 - Climbing + coaching with no experience!12:02 - Becoming the German bouldering coach19:42 - Do pros still need climbing tips??22:41 - Team Germany's training breakdown + reaction time practice28:19 - Comforting athletes who have a bad round37:58 - DEBUNKING LA 2028 qualification process44:07 - The issue with bouldering points system47:32 - HOT TAKE: Bouldering is no longer real climbing54:53 - New generation of climbing1:02:55 - German team challenges1:09:42 - Price of hosting world cups1:11:13 - Bouldering needs to change1:18:50 - USA travel nightmare1:28:03 - IG Q: Athletes in Germany that hate the DAV?1:32:11 - DISCORD Q: Talk through the process of an appeal1:38:58 - DISCORD Q: What do you do in ISO?1:40:55 - Words of wisdom + where to find Sagi