Listener question: how do we know awakening is not just a product of conditioning?

Listener question: Clare, I’m wondering if you might do a podcast on one of your common phrases, “it must begin here.” For example, if I am judging someone as, say, cruel, I must begin with me, here, and see all the ways that I am cruel. This is where my tricky little mind goes with that: “ok, so let me find all the times, past and present, in which I have been cruel. Well, now we just have two shitty people in the scenario. Two, cruel shitty people.” And then I don’t know where to go. The idea of “begin here” feels heavy and dark, which lets me know there is obviously confusion happening over here.