Speaking of Cults

This week I finally welcome back Jon Atack for his first appearance in this version of my podcast. We had a lot to discuss with the May 9th anniversary of the book Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health by L. Ron Hubbard and the legacy of its pseudoscientific nonsense. We cover a lot of territory including a look at the modern world which may surprise you. Enjoy!

This week I welcome back Shannon Grover and Bryce Blankenangel to discuss the typical Mormon experience, leading (of course) to us diving right into the mysterious Mormon undergarments and what that's all about - there's a lot to uncover there - as well as some much darker components of the Mormon church's overreach into their member's mental health and personal lives. Enjoy! Glassbox podcast: https://glassboxpodcast.com/

This week's show is meant for cult survivors and those who care about them. It's a short and hopefully educational discussion of some things I've learned recently about philosophy and how useful it can be to us in recovering from coercive control and trauma. Nothing super flashy or insane this week - just an effort to share some info. Enjoy!

This week, I welcome Cara Cordoni, a sex-positive coach, and Dave Booda, to discuss how groups such as the tantric sexual healing group ISTA use the same cult-like tactics known as Large Group Awareness Training. We go into a lot of detail on this. Enjoy! Cara's website: https://caracordonicoaching.com Dave's article: https://boodaism.com/ista/ 3SC Community: https://3sc.community NY Magazine article: https://archive.md/SxPTQ

This week, I welcome cult survivor, author and consultant Gerrette Buglion to discuss her work, cults in general, and the healing power of writing. This is a wide-ranging conversation which I hope you'll check out. Enjoy! Gerette's website: https://www.gerettebuglion.com/

This podcast was meant to be posted on March 22 but somehow disappeared from the audio lineup, so I'm re-posting it now. This very short episode focuses on an important point in today's self-help-filled world: the myth of instant personal transformation. You may feel you're above such obvious cons, but why do self-help gurus make billions every year peddling life coaching and personal transformation? Someone believes this stuff! Enjoy!

This week, we are back to a very short show as I decided that I would put my expertise to work to try to give some very practical advice on what to do in our current outrageous social/political environment here in the US. I hope it helps. Enjoy!

One thing I know my audience appreciates is the fact we are not afraid to go deep into the details of what goes on in cults and today is a big one. We are looking at the problem of cult leader succession, so let's look at how the Mormons did it. Bryce Blankenangel and Shannon Grover join me and provide a wonderful and nuanced insight into the full history of this topic. Enjoy! Glassbox podcast: https://glassboxpodcast.com/

This week by request I am interviewing Ben John, an entrepreneur and social media personality who was taken in by Grant Cardone's 10X MLM-like scheme, paid in hundreds of thousands for class and coaching work which resulted in absolutely nothing and when he tried to seek recourse, he was ghosted and "disconnected." Sometimes the business world can be just as shady as the religious one. Enjoy! Ben's channel: @TodaysMisguidedMentors Note: sorry for any delays in the last few episodes getting out there. The technical issues have now been resolved!

By popular demand, I am taking this week to honestly but maybe with a little snark look at the question of whether "wokeism" is a cult. Let's be honest about the problems and bad behavior on the Left, and let's take a look at whether a real cult exists there or not. I look forward to seeing your comments on this one! Enjoy!

This podcast is NOT a rant about any cult of Trump, but the fact I even have to lead with that is a sign of what this podcast is all about. This week I present 10 points of how obedience is coerced in any group (religious, political, sports, etc) and specifically how I see this playing out in Western politics, kind of cult behavior hiding in plain sight. This historically always results in pretty horrible lives for a lot of people and I hope this can help open some eyes. Enjoy!

This week I welcome back Bryce Blankenagel and Shannon Grover, two former members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. In our second discussion about the Mormon church, we go over the Mormon story of Joseph Smith's life and how this and many other things are used to create a compliance culture in the Mormon communities. Enjoy! Find Bryce and Shannon on the GlassBox podcast.

This week I discuss the fact of Christian Nationalism in the United States and the long-term evolution of what has become a disturbing ideological force in our current political climate. This is not something that just happened, or that happened overnight. In today's show, I discuss the background and agenda of the Evangelical Christian Nationalists. It's not necessarily an enjoyable show, but I hope it is an educational one.

This week I welcome Bryce Blankenagel and Shannon Grover, two former members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They not only have personal stories to tell but have dived deep into the details of the Mormon church itself, past and present. In this podcast, we take a broad look at the Mormon Church as a destructive cult and see how there are many layers of deception, unaccountability, political meddling and financial shenanigans that should give anyone pause. Enjoy! Find Bryce and Shannon on the GlassBox podcast.

This week I welcome Jeremiah Gibson and Julia Postema, certified and licensed sex therapists on the East Coast who help me understand honesty, openness and healthy boundaries in romantic/sexual relationships after leaving an abusive relationship or destructive cult. We covered a lot of territory in a short amount of time. Enjoy! J&J's website: https://Sexvangelicals.com and https://LetsHealTogether.org Contact: [email protected]

This week I am breaking down the exact reasons why we are living in a post-truth crisis that is quite literally tearing apart the social fabric of our society and institutions. This has allowed populist, dictatorial types like Donald Trump to rise to power and start to destroy everything that has made America great. In addition to defining and explaining how this problem came about, I also offer some ideas of what we can and should be doing about it. It's not a good picture but it's not all doom and gloom yet. This situation can still be turned around. Enjoy!

This week we posted the audio stream a little later than usual because we did something special - a live podcast. This particular subject of parasocial relationships with audience members is not a unique problem of YouTube but I thought there was never a subject that deserved an interactive approach with my audience as much as this one. Enjoy!

This week we take a dive into the work of ethnologist John B. Calhoun and the very unexpected results of his experiments, and most importantly what this means to us personally. It's a big-picture look, but that's what we do here, so enjoy! Here is the full script of the episode: Hello and welcome back to the Speaking of Cults podcast. I am your host, Chris Shelton. Usually on my podcast we circle around obvious cultic behavior and interviews with former cult members but lately we’ve been taking some deeper looks at aspects of society and our lives that may not have obvious cult connections but which in fact help us understand the cult problem in entirely different ways. Good science sheds light on all sorts of things that it may or may not have been intended for, just as common sense can sometimes help us make decisions in uncommon situations. So today we’re exploring an experiment that has intrigued scientists, philosophers, and futurists for decades: John B. Calhoun’s Universe 25. Given that it was called Universe 25, we know there were actually many studies conducted over many years leading up to this one. They were conducted with mice but were more than just an investigation into animal behavior. Universe 25 and its results served as a chilling allegory for human societal collapse. So who was John B. Calhoun? What exactly was the Universe 25 experiment? And what lessons can we draw from it today? Let’s dive in. To understand the Universe 25 experiment, we first need to know a bit about the man behind it. John B. Calhoun was an American ethologist and behavioral researcher who focused on the effects of population density on behavior. Born in 1917, Calhoun earned his Ph.D. in zoology from Northwestern University. Over his career, he became known for his pioneering work in the study of animal populations, and his insights have influenced fields ranging from urban planning to psychology. Calhoun’s interest in population density began in the 1940s when he worked at the National Institute of Mental Health. He was fascinated by the idea that overpopulation could significantly alter the social and behavioral dynamics of a species. This led him to design a series of experiments with rodents, culminating in his most famous study: Universe 25. The Universe 25 experiment was conducted in 1972 and was intended to simulate the effects of overpopulation on behavior. Calhoun created a so-called "mouse utopia"—a sealed enclosure that provided an ideal environment for mice. The habitat was meticulously designed: it was clean, climate-controlled, and stocked with unlimited food and water. There were no predators, and disease was minimized. The space was divided into small chambers connected by ramps and tunnels, providing ample room for the mice to explore. Calhoun started with just four pairs of mice. These founding members thrived in their new environment, and their population began to grow exponentially. By Day 315, the population peaked at around 2,200 mice. But then, something strange happened. Despite the abundance of resources, social structures began to break down. Calhoun observed a series of alarming behavioral changes, which he categorized into distinct phases. Let’s examine these phases in detail. During the early days of the experiment, in what you might consider Phase 1 of the experiment, the mice were in what Calhoun called the "strive phase." The population grew rapidly as the original pairs of mice reproduced. Social hierarchies naturally formed, and the mice engaged in typical behaviors such as nesting, grooming, and rearing their young. During this phase, the mice’s behavior was relatively normal, and their environment appeared harmonious. As the population grew, it entered Phase 2, the "exploit phase." Competition for space and social status began to emerge. Dominant males became more aggressive, often fighting to secure territories and mating rights. Subordinate males, unable to compete, became increasingly stressed and began to withdraw from social activities. At the same time, the growing population placed a strain on the available nesting areas, and the quality of maternal care began to decline. Instances of infanticide and neglect of offspring started to surface, foreshadowing the societal breakdown to come. Remember, the males had no external predation or threat to protect themselves or the group from. So where were those instincts directed? Towards their fellow mice, of course, the only other living things they could interact with. And so we see factioning of the population into various groupings which arise from this internalized conflict. By the time the population peaked, Phase 3 or the "equilibrium phase" began. This was the most critical stage, marked by what Calhoun termed the "behavioral sink." The enclosure’s social dynamics collapsed. Aggressive males continued to attack others indiscriminately, while some males became what Calhoun described as "social dropouts." These withdrawn males c

This week I have some economic issues to bring up which I believe help explain not only current ideological divides but also why there has been an apparent rise in cults for the last many decades. It's a big-picture look, but that's what we do here, so enjoy! EPI article cited: https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

This week I welcome Helen Greene, a volunteer worker at the Freedom from Religion foundation and a wonderful guest to talk about the experience of religion (traditional and otherwise) on our psyche and what some people experience when they try to leave religion behind. Enjoy! I'm trying out a new thing this week of including a summary of the podcast. Religion, Spirituality, and Deconversion Journey In the meeting, Chris and Helen discussed their experiences with religion and spirituality. Helen shared her journey from being a liberal Catholic to studying paganism and eventually becoming an atheist. She emphasized the gradual nature of her deconversion, contrasting it with the more traumatic experiences of others who have left high-control religious groups. Helen also highlighted the challenges faced by those who leave such groups, including trust issues and difficulty in transitioning to healthy models of behavior and support. She introduced the Recovering from Religion Foundation, a 501(c)(3) organization that offers hope, healing, and support for those dealing with doubt and non-belief, regardless of their position on the spectrum of belief. Emotional Support for Religion Recovery Helen discussed the services provided by her organization, which offers emotional support and resources for individuals recovering from religion. She highlighted the availability of a hotline, online support groups, and a community tailored to specific religions. Helen also mentioned an annual excursion for clients and volunteers, and the organization's need for volunteers with various skills. Chris expressed his enthusiasm for the organization's work and asked Helen about her experiences over the past four years. Addressing Religious Trauma and Abuse Chris and Helen discussed the reasons people contact their services, with Helen noting that fear of hell is the most common issue. They also touched on the topic of religious trauma, with Helen explaining that it can be difficult for people to overcome their indoctrination and emotional reactions. Chris suggested that physical abuse in spiritually abusive homes can contribute to this issue. Helen agreed, noting that many people they work with have experienced physical and emotional abuse. They also discussed the role of culture and education in shaping people's understanding of trauma and abuse. Chris wondered about the impact of social networks on this issue, while Helen emphasized the importance of empathy and good role models in helping people change their behavior. Exploring Religious and Spiritual Experiences Chris and Helen discussed their experiences with various religious and spiritual groups. Chris shared his observations about the similarities between ex-cult communities, including former Scientologists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormons. Helen shared her journey from a liberal Catholic family to paganism, and then to skepticism and eventually atheism. She explained that paganism is a nature-based religion with no hierarchical structure, allowing individuals to create their own spiritual practices. Helen also shared her experience with the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), a group with a hierarchical structure and rules, and how she saw power dynamics within the pagan community. The conversation ended with Chris expressing his curiosity about paganism and Helen offering to share more about her experiences. Addressing Negative Religious Experiences Chris and Helen discussed the challenges of helping individuals recover from negative experiences with religion. They agreed that questioning deeply held beliefs and encouraging people to find out more about their religious doctrines can be helpful. Helen emphasized the importance of acknowledging and validating people's emotions, rather than dismissing their fears or beliefs. They also discussed the decline in church attendance and the shift of people from organized religion to more spiritual structures. Helen suggested that this shift could be due to a desire for more personal control and a distrust of systems and authority. Chris agreed, noting that this trend is emblematic of a broader breakdown in trust of authority and systems. Religious Institutions and Personal Impact Chris and Helen discussed the impact of religious institutions on individuals and society. Helen shared her personal experience of leaving the Catholic Church due to the Spotlight scandal and her subsequent involvement in the Recovering from Religion movement. They also discussed the psychology and neuroscience behind religious beliefs and how they shape the brain. Helen encouraged listeners to learn more about the movement and offered her contact information for further discussions. The conversation ended with Chris expressing his appreciation for the discussion and Helen wishing him well.

In this show, I welcome again Julie McKernan to take what I hope you'll agree is a much deeper and more nuanced conversation about what it's like to be in a cult like Scientology than you'll usually find. We cover a lot of territory in this show about how Scientologists and the Sea Org relate. Enjoy!

We are back from our November hiatus with an interview about cult fiction by author Sadie Hoagland. This is particularly important to the ex-cult space because there are tools of exposure available to fiction authors that can help inform and raise awareness about cult phenomena that non-fiction work can miss or ignore. Enjoy! Sadie's website: https://sadiehoagland.com

This week's show is an interview with 2nd gen, former Scientologist Julie McKernan, a woman who has a long and fascinating tale to discuss about her growing up in Scientology, what it meant to her and what happened to her including a shockingly horrible incident that occurred to her as a minor which the Church of Scientology enabled and covered up. Unfortunately, this is a pattern this cult continues to engage in up to now. We cover a lot of territory in this show. Julie can be reached at RightOn5656 (at) gmail.com.

This week I welcome Shawn McCraney, artist, pastor and someone with a story to tell of an abusive upbringing, a violent past and a reformed mental state due to the influence of religion and learned empathy. We talk about a wide range of issues and go deep on some religious issues as well. Enjoy! Shawn's website: https://ShawnMcCraney.com

This week I welcome author and former Evangelical pastor Dr. Clint Heacock to share his new work, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People about his upbringing and early adult life in the Evangelical world where physical and spiritual abuse were not only part of the picture but were mandated activities. Clint answers a lot of my questions about this and his escape from it and how we can discuss it now. Enjoy!

This week I welcome author and former Scientologist Pamela Nickel Williams to discuss her upcoming memoir, Clearly Lies are True about her life growing up in and around Scientology and the Sea Org. It's a harrowing tale and we go into a lot of detail about the beginning days of the Sea Org here. Enjoy! Pamela's website: https://clearlyliesaretrue.com

This week I welcome Anke Richter, journalist, author and organizer of the DeCult Conference in New Zealand on Oct 20, 2024. Anke and I have a very informative and interesting conversation this week about cults around the world, her own experience in a sex cult and what she has been doing to educate about and get regulations enacted for cults. Enjoy! Anke's website: https://AnkeRichter.net DeCult conference: https://decult.net

This week I welcome Ann Betz, author and coach, who has not only had her own experience with a cult-like Large Group Awareness Training but has also done graduate work in neuroscience and has a lot to say in helping explain why we can all be susceptible to coercive control. Enjoy! Ann's website: https://BEaboveLeadership.com

This week I welcome back Anthony Spurgin, a man who previously shared his story of growing up as a Traditional Catholic, to discuss the movement in more detail, how its loosely structured and whether this is actually a cult or not. Enjoy! Anthony's YouTube channel: @TheDragonsofVictory

This week I welcome back educator, author and amazing guest Melanie Trecek-King to discuss critical thinking, her work as an educator and we go deep on the aspects of critical thinking that do not get talked about enough anywhere, including in the ex-cult spaces. Enjoy! Melanie's website: https://ThinkingIsPower.com

This week I welcome Dr. Maurice Turmel, a clinical psychologist with decades of experience treating religious trauma syndrome and author of Breaking the Spell of Religion. We discuss the negative attitudes and behavior that are often present in deeply religious households and dealing with that later in life. Dr. Turmel brought some great points to this conversation. Enjoy!

This week I welcome Reverend Benjamin Cremer, a Christian pastor and religious influencer who has some very positive Christian messaging to fight back against the more extreme versions of Christianity that are trying so hard to take away the rights of all Americans to worship the way they want or to not worship at all. Rev. Cremer was a true joy to speak with and brought some great points to this conversation. Enjoy! Reverend Cremer's blog: https://benjamin-cremer.ck.page

This week I welcome Dr. Jonathan Stea, a clinical psychologist and author of the new book Mind the Science, to discuss pseudoscience in physical and mental health fields and how this can create even more problems for those of us seeking real help. In this show we cover what some of the big and obvious red flags are of this kind of scammy nonsense and what you can look for that might tell you that something is legit as a cure/remedy. Enjoy! Jonathan's site: https://jonathanstea.com

This week I welcome Dr. Clint Heacock, a former Evangelical minister who has spent years taking apart the Christian Nationalism movement and efforts by various political groups to turn the US into a theocracy. The roadmap to do that is Project 2025 and we break down what this is about here. Enjoy!

This week I welcome Tia Levings, author and survivor of very serious abuse at the hands of not only her Christian Fundamentalist ex-husband but by the entire "purity culture" mindset she was raised in which permeated every aspect of her life. Tia describes very clearly how this is a destructive cult environment and is purposefully created to enforce extreme ideas of gender roles, sexual morality and compliance. Tia's website: https://tialevings.com

This week I welcome Reverend Doctor Kenneth Garrett, a Portland-based minister who not only has his own survivor story as a former cult member but who has worked to help setup a community support group for former cult members which has had great success and which anyone can do in their own area. We discuss all of this and more. Enjoy!

This week I welcome Pamela Bowen, a third-generation survivor of the 2x2s, the "cult with no name" which has been appearing in media lately, and rightfully so as it's a religious cult that has enabled a great deal of sexual abuse. This is a harrowing episode but ultimately a successful escape from a destructive cult. Enjoy! Pamela on Twitter/X: @PamelaHuanani

This week I welcome Christian Szurko, a cult recovery consultant who has been helping people in their post-cult life for as many decades as I've been alive! Christian and I discuss key principles of cult indoctrination and recovery in this episode. Enjoy! Christian's website: https://dialogcentre.org.uk/

This week I am talking about how responsibility, causation and blame are used by cult leaders/predators to psychologically enslave their targets with guilt and gaslighting and how this can create not only unrealistic expectations or goals but can trap a person in a prison of belief.

This week I welcome Dr. John Hunter, a psychologist from South Africa who has done some amazing and detailed research on the neurological and psychological factors at play in Large Group Awareness Training systems (such as Est, Landmark and many others) going all the way back to the 1970s to now. We cover a lot in this podcast about how these LGATs were started, what they are doing to the participants and why this is deceptive as a practice. Enjoy! Dr. Hunter's website: https://JohnHunterPhD.com

This week I welcome guests Rod and Linda Dubrow-Marshall, who created and run the Masters program at the University of Salford in the psychology of coercive control. We had a great deal more to discuss than just the program and dived deep into the legal and ethical problems with cults and how coercive control touches on so many aspects of our lives. Enjoy! Salford University site: https://www.salford.ac.uk/

This week I welcome guest Annie Dawid, author and professor of creative writing here in Colorado. In this very wide-ranging episode we discuss the history, psychology and life of Jim Jones and the People's Temple as described in a historical fiction novel that Annie wrote. Enjoy! Annie Dawid's website: https://www.anniedawid.com/

This week I welcome guest Anne L. Peterson, author of "Is This a Cult?", her experiences working in and for Landmark Forum including her multiple interactions with Werner Earhardt, the founder of Est and Landmark. Enjoy! Anne Peterson's website: https://isthisacultbook.com

This week I offer a discussion on Carl Sagan's "baloney detection kit" and how it helped me learn a more scientific way of thinking and how to avoid manipulation, propaganda and pseudoscience before it became a huge problem. Enjoy!

This last weekend I produced my final analysis/breakdown video on Scientology practices and the subject was the E-Meter, the "religious artifact" that L. Ron Hubbard claimed could unerringly detect and bring to the surface emotional "charge" that was holding everyone down and keeping them from achieving their true potentials. Was he right? Not even close and in this extensive breakdown of the E-meter and Hubbard's writings about it, you are going to understand exactly what Scientologists believe and then you're going to see why it's all utter nonsense. Enjoy!

This week I welcome Jon Atack back to my podcast, this week to discuss blow-by-blow his written work called Scientology: The Cult of Greed. We cover a lot of territory in a short time and I think you'll really get something out it. Enjoy! Jon's website: https://jonatack.co.uk

This week I decided to tackle one of the most common and objectively false comments I've seen over the years about cults: the idea you have to be a moron or otherwise intellectually challenged to join a cult. This is simply not true and in this episode, I break down exactly what cults do to take advantage of new recruits and members. Enjoy! CHRIS'S LINKTREE (ALL SOCIAL/SUPPORT LINKS) https://linktr.ee/chrissheltonmsc

This week I welcome cult survivor and author Kate Gale to discuss her work as a writer and poet and her experiences growing up on an off-the-grid farm run by a religious fanatic. She had no access to the outside world until almost an adult but picked herself up and made a life and she shares that story with us today. Enjoy! Kate's website: https://kategale.com

This week I offer a short but complete breakdown on coercive control, how to spot it, why it happens and how to stop it. This is a vitally important topic for people in not just cults but relationships and work situations too.There's a lot in this one. Enjoy!

This week I welcome author and editor Arthur Goldwag to my show to discuss his new book, The Politics of Fear, and his body of work as it relates to destructive cults, politics and our current world situation. We cover a lot of territory in this one. Enjoy!