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This week, Emily Bazelon and David Plotz are joined by Henry Blodget to discuss the financial and political fallout from the President’s threats to fire Fed Chair Powell and subsequent retreat; a Supreme Court case over free exercise of religion that could have broad implications; and why Trump stands by Hegseth after Signalgate Part 2.For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily and David are joined by Henry Blodget to discuss the weird and somewhat terrifying AI experiment he conducted for his Substack Regenerator. In the latest Gabfest Reads, John talks with author Maggie Smith about her new book, Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Trump administration’s actions on immigration and firing the federal workforce have drawn condemnation from all sorts of unions—from building trades to graduate students. What happens when labor speaks as one?Guest: Sara Nelson, international president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, AFL–CIO.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Why Trump wants to ouster his own appointee, Jerome Powell, from the Fed chair—and why the rest of the world is rooting for Powell to stay put.Guest: Liz Hoffman, Semafor’s business and finance editor, host of Semafor’s World Economy Summit, and author of Crash Landing: The Inside Story of How the World’s Biggest Companies Survived an Economy on the Brink.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Preaching for empathy and compassion, Pope Francis was at times seen as an agent of dramatic change in the Catholic Church. Did he succeed? Is that even an answerable question before the world knows his successor?Guest: David Gibson, director of the Center on Religion and Culture at Fordham UniversityWant more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Some of the nation’s biggest law firms have found themselves in Trump’s crosshairs and have pledged pro-bono legal service to maintain their security clearances and access to government buildings. Others, however, are trying to fight back.Guest: Ankush Khardori, attorney and former federal prosecutor in the US Justice Department.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If setting up a baby monitor in the room with your sleeping kids doesn’t allow you to pop out and enjoy the cruise ship, what are they actually good for?Guest: Stephanie Murray, writer for The Atlantic, the newsletter Family Stuff, who wrote “You’re on Vacation. You Leave Your Kid in Your Hotel Room With a Baby Monitor. What Could Go Wrong?” for Slate.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week: Trump isn’t happy with Fed chair Jay Powell’s take on his tariffs. Felix Salmon, Elizabeth Spiers and guest host Cardiff Garcia discuss the economic reasoning for why Powell is resisting the president’s demands to lower rates and what would happen if Trump finds a legal way to fire him. Then, the Trump administration is both gutting the IRS and potentially weaponizing it against Harvard. The hosts discuss the consequences of politicizing the agency. Finally, Trump’s trade war keeps escalating as China refuses to back down. Is there any chance for a good outcome?In the Slate Plus episode: Elon Musk’s Baby BroodWant to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ever since March 15, when three flights carrying hundreds of men who had been afforded zero due process left United States airspace and landed in El Salvador, American democracy has been hurtling toward an internal conflict that the federal judiciary would very much prefer to avoid, but just keeps getting more unavoidable. On this week’s Amicus podcast, Mark Joseph Stern is joined by Leah Litman for the first half of the show. They discuss how, faced with a Trump administration that claims the ability to rewrite the Constitution on the fly, denies the ability to follow court orders, and dangles the possibility of extending its lawlessness to renditioning American citizens to a foreign prison, the federal judiciary this week did what the Supreme Court failed to do last week: explicitly call out the regime’s lawless actions. Aptly, Leah’s new book, Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes, comes out on May 13 and they discuss how the highest court’s enabling of Trump and MAGA more broadly has brought us to the constitutional precipice. Next: In the six months since the re-election of Donald Trump, abortion and reproductive rights have been squished way below the fold, news-wise, obscured by an ever-mounting pile of terrifying headlines. But outside of the public glare, the legal landscape of reproductive rights has been shifting. Dahlia Lithwick talks to Mary Ziegler about her book Personhood: The New Civil War Over Reproduction. Together, they examine how notions of fetal and embryonic personhood are fueling punitive actions against women, physicians, and those who provide or seek healthcare related to reproduction.Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

John Dickerson talks with author Maggie Smith about her new book, Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life. They talk about the essential elements of all creative projects, when you know a project is “done”, how to stay “porous” in the world, and more. Tweet us your questions @SlateGabfest or email us at [email protected]. (Messages could be quoted by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)Podcast production by Cheyna Roth. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, the FTC and Meta began a trial to determine if—by adding Instagram and WhatsApp to its portfolio with Facebook over a decade ago—the company became a monopoly in social media. If Meta loses, it could be forced to split up, losing Instagram—and its substantial ad revenue.Guest: Paresh Dave, senior writer at WIRED.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the Trump administration’s ramped up attacks on Harvard and international students, the courts flirting with findings of contempt after the administration ignores and mocks court orders, and the ways the Trump tariffs and exemptions invite corruption and “swampiness.”For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss the implications of the White House cutting the wire services seat from the press pool to explicitly punish the Associated Press. In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with author Adam Higginbotham about his new book, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In an ongoing opioid epidemic, hospitals drug testing new mothers and their babies has an intuitive logic. But applied unequally, rife with false positives, and prone to disrupting those important early weeks, is it a best practice?Guest: Shoshana Walter, investigative reporter for The Marshall ProjectWant more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In February, Donald Trump and Maine Governor Janet Mills got into a spat over Trump’s executive order on trans athletes, that ended with both parties tersely agreeing to meet in court. Since then, the Trump administration seems to be trying to make an example of the state—cutting off federal funding where it can. Guest: Callie Ferguson, investigative reporter for the Bangor Daily News.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this Money Talks: The federal student loan program was meant to help students seeking a route to a better life – so why is it putting so many of them into crippling debt instead? Journalist Jillian Berman, author of Sunk Cost: Who’s to Blame for the Nation’s Broken Student Loan System and How to Fix, joins Emily Peck to unpack the fraught history of the national student debt system and discuss where it stands now. Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On April 7, the Treasury Department and Department of Homeland Security reached an agreement to allow ICE to use confidential tax information to locate undocumented immigrants. Though this group generally pays taxes at a higher rate than comparable U.S. citizens, advocates warn that the IRS-ICE team-up could have a chilling effect. They say it’s likely to endanger the $66 billion in federal tax revenue undocumented immigrants are estimated to contribute, and add to a climate of fear in communities nationwide.Guest: Francine Lipman, law professor at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Despite what Trump said on the campaign trail, his administration seems to be working right out of Project 2025, where the first goal is to “Restore the family as the centerpiece of American life—and protect our children.” What does this mean in action? It starts with a very specific type of “family.”Guest: David Graham, Atlantic staff writer and author of the forthcoming book, The Project: How Project 2025 Is Reshaping America.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

TikTok was on the verge of being sold to a non-Chinese company when Trump rolled out his new tariff plans. Now everything is thrown into uncertainty and the company has until mid-June to find another buyer—or be banned in the United States.Guest: Sapna Maheshwari, New York Times reporter covering TikTok, technology and emerging media companies.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week: Trump’s erratic tariff policies are creating a lot of volatility in the markets. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, and Elizabeth Spiers are joined by investments expert Barry Ritholtz to unpack the week’s wild tariff news and this uniquely unpredictable situation where one person’s decisions are having a huge effect on the markets. Then, Barry helps the hosts understand investing in this environment with lessons from his new book ‘How Not To Invest’.In the Slate Plus episode: The trouble with leaf blowers. Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this week’s Amicus, autocratic creep in high and low gear. In high gear: The Supreme Court finally issued its order in Kilmar Abrego Garcia’s case, requiring that the government “facilitates” Abrego Garcia’s return from the El Salvadoran prison to which he was illegally and accidentally reditioned, but also recognizing the limits on its authority to direct the executive branch. Dahlia Lithwick talks to Slate senior writer Mark Joseph Stern about the ways in which the High Court’s attempts to avoid a showdown with the Trump administration may be futile.Next, Dahlia turns to the autocratic creep in low gear that is President Trump’s buyout of Big Law. Jessie Weber, managing partner at Brown Goldstein and Levy, shares her view from a firm that has no intention of capitulating government bullying. Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The same day Nintendo was officially introducing its latest console, Donald Trump was announcing his new global tariff plan. As a result, gamers were treated to an early preview of what a world bound up in tariffs would look like. Spoiler: It’ll probably cost you a lot more.Guest: Jason Koebler, a co-founder of 404 MediaWant more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the self-inflicted chaos of Trump’s tariffs and an escalating trade war with China; the Supreme Court’s careful responses to deportations without due process which leave key questions unanswered; and the brazen attempted heist of a North Carolina Supreme Court seat by Republicans.Emily: Adam Cancryn and Maggie Miller for Politico: Trump orders investigation of two first-term administration aides who criticized himJohn: Blue Mass (Wikipedia); National Museum of American History: Blue Mass Compound, Sugar-coated Pills; Wallace B. Mendelson for Psychology Today: Heavy Metal Blues: The History of Medicinal Mercury; Everything Is Tuberculosis by John Green; Alka Agrawal for Science: All the President’s Pills.David: Sage McHugh for The Spruce: The 7 Best Moth Repellents the Spruce Has Tested; Sophie Yarin for The Brink: Pioneering Research from Boston University: Elevating the Clothes-Eating Moth from Pest to Evolutionary Marvel; Chris Obenschain for HowStuffWorks: What To Do If You Inherit An Old CarListener chatter from Tim in Solana Beach, California: Jack Dolan for the L.A. Times: As baby great whites cruise among California surfers, science finds (almost) nothing to fear; Video (3:15), L.A. Times on YouTubeFor this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss favorite artworks they turn to for solace and perspective when chaos and tumult dominates the news.In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with author Adam Higginbotham about his new book, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space.Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)Podcast production by Kevin BendisResearch by Emily DittoWant more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thousands of “Hands Off!” protestors took to the street over the weekend. While it’s clear they were marching against the actions of Elon Musk and President Donald Trump, what would “hands off” look like? If it’s removing these guys from office, why not tell the people with the power to do it?Guest: Gabe Garbowit, former Senate staffer, current organizer at citizensimpeachment.comWant more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Majors was an actor on the rise—indie credits, prestige television, a Spike Lee joint, a superhero film. But all of that looked like it was over when Majors was found guilty of assault and harassment in 2023. Now Majors is back on the promotional circuit for the film “Magazine Dreams.” Is this evidence of the #MeToo movement’s waning power, or is it more of the same from an industry that’s always eager for a man’s redemption story?Guest: CT Jones, culture writer at Rolling StoneWant more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Here’s a question for you. If you are scooped up by ICE (masked, covering badge numbers), then moved from one detention center to another in quick succession, before being hastily forced onto a flight to El Salvador where you are imprisoned in a “terrorism confinement center” beyond the jurisdiction of the United States –– at what point in that process could you access some kind of adjudicatory review? In this bonus episode of Amicus for Slate Plus members, Dahlia Lithwick tackles the Supreme Court’s shadow docket decisions in two overlapping but distinct cases stemming from the Trump administration’s renditioning of detainees to an El Salvadorean mega-prison which also happens to be a legal black hole. Joined by Slate senior writer Mark Joseph Stern, they explore the legal and procedural concerns, the consequences for due process, and why five justices saw fit to reward the Trump administration for some very out-of-bounds behavior in the lower courts. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

While Egypt and the Gulf States submit proposals to rebuild Gaza, Israel is moving forward with President Trump’s plan to displace Palestinians from the Gaza Strip. Meanwhile, the war rages on, and Gazans have been struggling to access essentials like food and medical supplies.Guest: Aya Batrawy, NPR international correspondent based in Dubai. Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Maybe Trump doesn’t care if the economy tanks—maybe he believes he can play it all to his advantage. And maybe, through a lot of pain, this is the only way America’s going to learn its lesson.Guest: Jonathan Last, editor of The BulwarkWant more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Elon Musk’s polarizing persona and antics have created a toxic cloud around his companies, particularly Tesla. But despite that, Wall Street can’t seem to quit him. Why? Guest: Felix Salmon, host of Slate Money and chief financial correspondent for Axios.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week: Trump unveiled his extensive list of tariffs. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, and Elizabeth Spiers discuss the questionable math that went into calculating these hefty tariffs and the stock market’s extremely negative reaction to the announcement. Then, Trump has picked a fight with the country's biggest law firms, threatening the integrity of the US legal system. Slate’s Mark Joseph Stern joins to break down the situation. And finally, the US dollar is down after Trump’s tariff announcement which was a big surprise. (Listen to our episode with Paul Krugman to understand why.) The hosts examine the factors that led to its weakening. In the Slate Plus episode: Broadway plays have gone Hollywood. Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The US government’s use of a prison in El Salvador as an extra-judicial due-process free black site has been rendered starkly visible by the story of one man they tried to disappear. On this week’s Amicus, Dahlia Lithwick interviews Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg, lawyer for Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, a Maryland resident, husband and father, who was illegally deported to El Salvador in March due to what the government admits was an administrative error. Abrego Garcia was abruptly detained by ICE, torn from his family, and sent to a brutal Salvadoran prison despite having legal protections against deportation. The Justice Department now says Abrego Garcia must remain in the notorious CECOT prison in El Salvador. On Friday a district court judge in Maryland ordered his return. Next, we turn to the Trump administration's disastrous tariffs. Slate's Mark Joseph Stern joins Dahlia to explore the legality of Trump’s latest, inexplicable round of tariffs against the rest of the world, and debate whether the Supreme Court will apply its so-called “major questions doctrine” when a Republican is in the White House. Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, DOGE set its sights and scythe on the Department of Health and Human Services, with a goal of cutting 10,000 federal workers, once again raising the question: what’s their endgame here?Guest: Makena Kelly, senior writer for WIREDWant more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss liberal judge Susan Crawford’s sweeping victory in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race; Trump’s new, nearly universal massive tariffs; and the dangerously casual standards the government is using to deport alleged gang members despite acknowledged mistakes. Here are this week’s chatters:Emily: Stephanie Nolen for the New York Times: Millions of Women Will Lose Access to Contraception as a Result of Trump Aid Cuts.John: Arthur Delaney for HuffPost: Emails Confirm Social Security Administration Canceled Maine Contracts As Political Payback; Fatima Hussein and Patrick Whittle for the Associated Press: Social Security’s acting leader faces calls to resign over decision to cut Maine contracts. Bodkin on Netflix.David: Book Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space, by author Adam Higginbotham; Movie The Intern with Robert De Niro and Anne Hathaway (official trailer on YouTube: The Intern); book Emma by Jane Austen (Emma ebook at Project Gutenberg; Emma at Jane Austen’s House).Listener chatter from Emma in Lebanon, New Hampshire: Vermont’s ‘Mr. Maple’ Has Great Stories To TellFor this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily talks with Annie Karni and Luke Broadwater about their new book, Mad House: How Donald Trump, MAGA Mean Girls, A Former Used Car Salesman, A Florida Nepo Baby, and a Man With Rats In His Walls Broke Congress.In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with author Adam Higginbotham about his new book, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space.Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)Podcast production by Kevin BendisResearch by Emily DittoWant more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Trump campaigned on deporting dangerous criminals, but in his administration’s haste to deliver on that promise, men with no criminal records or who are in the United States legally have been taken to a prison in El Salvador, which even the administration admits was a mistake.Guests:Jonathan Blitzer, staff writer at the New Yorker, author of Everyone Who Is Gone Is Here: The United States, Central America, and the Making of a Crisis.Nick Miroff, staff writer for The Atlantic covering immigration.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On Wednesday, the Supreme Court is hearing oral arguments in Medina v. Planned Parenthood South Atlantic, a case that will determine whether South Carolina can cut Medicaid funding to Planned Parenthood.But with clear legal precedent stating that they can’t, how did this case even end up before the Supreme Court? And, given how far the court has gone to accommodate the MAGA agenda, is the outcome of this case in doubt?Guest: Ian Millhiser, senior correspondent at Vox. Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

As video of federal agents stopping Tufts student Rumeysa Ozturk on the street and taking her away to be detained circulated on social media, people kept asking, “how could this happen here?” The answer involves organizations that claim to help the federal government identify and find activists, and victims whose rights to free speech and due process can be swiftly suspended.Guest: Aymann Ismail, staff writer at Slate.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this Money Talks: Amidst the Trump administration’s continued attacks on the press, David Enrich’s new book, Murder the Truth: Fear, the First Amendment, and a Secret Campaign to Protect the Powerful, feels incredibly timely. He joins Elizabeth Spiers to discuss his reporting on increasing efforts to exploit the legal system to protect the rich and powerful from being held accountable, creating an incredibly fraught landscape for journalists and news outlets.Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How an election to the Wisconsin Supreme Court has become a referendum on Elon Musk—and the most expensive state supreme court race ever.Guest: John Nichols, associate editor at The Capital Times in Wisconsin, contributor on electoral politics and public policy for The Nation, and author of multiple books on media and politics.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ketamine has gone from a recreational psychedelic to an approved treatment, and it has caught on in Silicon Valley in a big way. Are the long-term effects of using ketamine—recreationally or therapeutically—sufficiently known? Are we witnessing them right now?Guest: Shayla Love, staff writer for the Atlantic.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ketamine has gone from a recreational psychedelic to an approved treatment, and it has caught on in Silicon Valley in a big way. Are the long-term effects of using ketamine—recreationally or therapeutically—sufficiently known? Are we witnessing them right now?Guest: Shayla Love, staff writer for the Atlantic.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week: A leaked Signal message revealed illegal use of the commercial app by the Defense Department. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, and Elizabeth Spiers explain how this is a common issue in finance, where employees often defy SEC regulations on secure communication in favor of more convenient ways of communicating. Then, a recent study shows that people are leaving states with anti-abortion laws and other evidence suggests political migration in the US is on the rise. Finally, Dollar Tree is selling Family Dollar to private equity for $1 billion, 10 years after buying it for $8 billion. The hosts discuss what might have led to the end of the disastrous merger. In the Slate Plus episode: Felix joins What Next host Mary Harris to talk about the godfather of crypto, Satoshi Nakamoto. Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Trumpian inversion of reality was threaded into so many areas of the law and active litigation this week. Slate senior writer Mark Joseph Stern joins Dahlia Lithwick to discuss the apparent evaporation of judicial patience for Trump lawyers simultaneously claiming that a signal chat was not classified or subject to record preservation rules, AND the flights to El Salvador that were filmed for posterity on arrival at a prison were in fact state secrets. Together, they also think through the likelihood of the Supreme Court stepping into the Alien Enemies Act case at this early stage by just taking the Trump administration at its word that those summary renditions were totally legal and constitutionally correct. Next, Dahlia Lithwick talks to Wendy Weiser, vice president for democracy at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law School, about another Trumpian inversion of reality: his executive order titled “Preserving and Protecting the Integrity of American Elections”, which in fact is not about election integrity, but instead an extension of the Big Lie election theory that could disenfranchise millions of eligible voters. Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Memecoins are a niche type of cryptocurrency with no intrinsic value. But they remain a popular form of crypto, as seen earlier this year with President Trump’s own memecoin. And if it worked for him, then why not our little podcast? Guests: Azeem Khan, advisor to UNICEF’s crypto fund and cocreator of the blockchain Morph.Nitish Pahwa, Slate staff writer covering business and tech.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the hilarious-if-it-wasn’t-so-terrifying accidental sending of secret attack plans from Trump administration officials to a journalist; the chilling capitulation of big law firms to Trump’s onslaught; and similar aggressive efforts to intimidate higher education in the United States. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily and David talk with Michigan State Senator Mallory McMorrow about the path forward for Democrats and her new book Hate Won’t Win: Find Your Power and Leave This Place Better Than You Found It. In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with author Adam Higginbotham about his new book, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How former congressman and Air Force veteran, Adam Kinzinger interprets the leaked Signal chat of top Trump administration officials discussing a military strike on Houthi targets. Guest: Adam Kinzinger, former Republican Congressman for Illinois’s 11th and 16th districts who served on the January 6th select committee, and author of Renegade: Defending Democracy and Liberty in Our Divided Country.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Trump’s attempted elimination of the Department of Education has left more than 40 million Americans with student loans wondering how their repayment plans will be affected—and future college students wondering what options will exist when it’s time to go to school. Guest: Danielle Douglas-Gabriel, higher education reporter at the Washington Post.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders are holding packed rallies on their “Fighting Oligarchy” tour. The energy is there, but what is the message and how could it translate to a win for the down-and-out Democratic Party?Guest: David Weigel, national political reporter at Semafor.Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Trump administration is using federal money—and the withholding thereof—as a way to bring universities like Columbia and Penn to heel. But institutes of higher education have not yet begun to fight, and when they do, they’ve got strong legal arguments against incursions on their academic freedom.Guest: Lee Bollinger, president emeritus, Columbia UniversityWant more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

During his first term, President Trump and Jeff Bezos openly sparred with each other. During this second administration, though, it seems like Bezos is trying to endear himself - and his companies - to the White House. So what changed?Guest: Dana Mattioli, reporter for the Wall Street Journal and the author of The Everything War: Amazon’s Ruthless Quest to Own the World and Remake Corporate Power.Special thanks to David Maraniss.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week: DOGE is taking its chainsaw to the Social Security Administration. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, and Elizabeth Spiers examine the real reasons behind the Elon Musk led crusade against the SSA. And then, DOGE used extreme tactics against the US Institute of Peace including a physical takeover of the building by force. Meanwhile, the founder of Pirate’s Booty tried a similar tactic to try to gain power over his small Long Island town. The hosts discuss how these stories and recent actions by Trump call into question what authority really means when it comes to our government. And finally, Dan Primak of Axios joins to explain how a private equity firm just made the Boston Celtics the highest valued team (in dollars) in US sports history.In the Slate Plus episode: Why are US winemakers upset about a potential wine tariff? Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you’re overwhelmed by the sheer volume of lawless acts, constitutional crises (we count five), and huge Trump administration losses in court this week - honestly, same. But if anyone can render this swirling storm of lawsuits and orders and injunctions legible, and put them in terms that can help make sense of this moment, it’s Dahlia Lithwick. On this week’s show, Dahlia is first joined by Quinta Jurecic, a fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution and a senior editor at Lawfare, to discuss the deeply worrying shift in the Trump regime’s posture toward judges and the rule of law, that’s been playing out inside and outside the courts this week. Next, Dahlia speaks with a lawyer who secured a big win against Elon Musk and DOGE this week in one of the USAID cases. Mimi Marziani explains the litigation strategy, and its limits. Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The National Institutes of Health is the primary engine of biomedical research around the world, which makes the Trump administration's dramatic cuts to its grant program both confusing and potentially incredibly harmful.Guest: Katherine J. Wu, staff writer for the Atlantic.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.