Sinica Podcast

In this second half of our interview with Kishore Mahbubani, a former UN ambassador of Singapore, he talks to Kaiser about the perils of American exceptionalism, the poverty of strategic thinking in Washington, and the view of U.S.-China competition from the rest of the world. His latest book, Has China Won? The Chinese Challenge to American Primacy, is a bracing read, unsparing in its criticisms of Chinese and American strategic blunders, and its tough-love approach is sure to rankle. 8:52: Comparing Chinese realities to American ideals15:31: How the outcome of the U.S.-China geopolitical contest will be decided24:49: Strategic thinking regarding the South China Sea37:57: America’s relationships with its alliesRecommendations:Kishore: Rise to Globalism: American Foreign Policy Since 1938, by Stephen E. Ambrose and Douglas G. Brinkley.Kaiser: A new podcast series by Patrick Radden Keefe, called Wind of Change.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In the first part of this two-part conversation, Kishore Mahbubani, a former UN ambassador of Singapore, returns to Sinica to chat with Kaiser about his latest book, Has China Won? The Chinese Challenge to American Primacy. It’s a bracing read, unsparing in its criticisms of Chinese and American strategic blunders, and its tough-love approach is sure to rankle. Part 2 will run next week. 12:46: Contrasting the geopolitical challenges posed by China and Russia23:03: The core pillars of American strength31:23: A financial “nuclear option” for China45:12: The fusion of civilizationsRecommendations to follow in next week’s episode.  This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

No, not that Gordon Chang. The other one: the good one. Gordon H. Chang is a professor of American history at Stanford University, where he is also the Olive H. Palmer Professor in Humanities and the senior associate vice provost for undergraduate education. In this prelapsarian podcast, taped on December 19, Gordon chats with Kaiser about the rising tide of Sinophobia — presaging things to come once Trump really started fanning the flames during the present pandemic. 12:15: American perceptions of China and Chinese people20:54: A legacy of discrimination against Chinese scientists in the U.S.31:43: The role of universities in pushing back against xenophobia35:47: Espionage fears and restrictions against Chinese researchersRecommendations:Gordon: The Transpacific Experiment: How China and California Collaborate and Compete for Our Future, by Matt Sheehan. Kaiser: The Scientist and the Spy: A True Story of China, the FBI, and Industrial Espionage, by Mara Hvistendahl.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A congressional bill and a draft executive order threaten to prevent U.S. government agencies from using drones made in China or that contain Chinese components. Concerns over security issues may end successful programs by the Department of the Interior and other agencies using Chinese-made drones for a huge range of purposes. Brendan Schulman, vice president for public policy and legal affairs of leading Chinese drone maker DJI, joins Kaiser and Jeremy to discuss.3:16: A history of DJI16:04: Shenzhen and the consumer electronic supply chain18:24: DJI under legal scrutiny in the U.S. and abroad 29:01: The role of the U.S. Congress in pushing back against Chinese tech39:18: Drone applications in the fight against COVID-19Recommendations:Jeremy: Fine Music Radio, a Cape Town–based radio station that plays jazz and classical music, and New Frame, a media company that covers news in Africa. Brendan: The book Eternal Life, by Dara Horn. Kaiser: Two pieces from The New Yorker: How does the coronavirus behave inside a patient?, by Siddhartha Mukherjee, and The contrarian coronavirus theory that informed the Trump administration, by Isaac Chotiner.Like the podcasts at SupChina? Help us out by taking our brief survey.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Literature professor and cineaste Jiwei Xiao, who grew up in Wuhan and whose mother still lives there, published a piece in the New York Review of Books about watching the coronavirus pandemic unfold — first at a distance in Wuhan, then up close in the U.S., where she now resides. In this episode, Jiwei joins Kaiser and Jeremy to discuss her experiences. 11:56: China’s initial response to the outbreak16:18: Fang Fang’s comments on China’s response to COVID-1925:09: Emerging literature on the pandemic35:10: Occupying a space between nations and culturesRecommendations:Jiwei: A work of “China noir”: The Wild Goose Lake, by Diao Yinan. Jeremy: Keep Cool, by Zhang Yimou.Kaiser: A long-form piece in the New York Times Magazine, I’m an E.R. doctor in New York. None of us will ever be the same, by Helen Ouyang. This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

For our 10th anniversary show, Kaiser and Jeremy recorded live on Zoom, shared some reminiscences, reflected on how China and the podcast have changed in the years since they started the show, and took questions from listeners who tuned in. A video version of the podcast is available here. 8:05: A bird’s-eye view of Western media coverage of China26:52: The demise of area studies, and the rise of disciplines in China studies36:59: How to keep up with current events in China44:51: A discussion on xenophobia and nationalism in Chinese society1:16:37: Can person-to-person diplomacy exist in an increasingly insular worldRecommendations: Jeremy: An interview with Stephen King by Terry Gross on Fresh Air, Stephen King is sorry you feel like you’re stuck in a Stephen King novel, and an article on SupChina, My family survived the lockdown in Wuhan. Now it’s my turn, in New York, by Zeyi Yang. Kaiser: Fearing for my mother in Wuhan, facing a new Sinophobia in the US, by Xiao Jiwei, and Shockwave, by Adam Tooze.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In a show taped on March 2, before the full force of COVID-19 had hit the U.S., Kaiser and Jeremy chatted with Parsifal D'Sola Alvarado about China's strategy in the resource-rich but economically devastated Venezuela. Parsifal is a co-founder of the Andrés Bello China-Latin America Research Foundation and a foreign policy adviser to Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaidó.2:47: China-Venezuela relations before Hugo Chávez11:29: Popular attitudes toward China under Chávez30:27: Between Maduro and Guaidó, China is hedging its bets40:40: Documenting Chinese interaction in Venezuela 45:02: Do policymakers understand China’s involvement in South AmericaRecommendations:Jeremy: A list of healthcare and medical professionals on Twitter, dubbed “COVID-19 medical Twitter” by Jeremy. Parsifal: A book in Spanish by Francisco Suniaga, El pasajero de Truman, and The Man Who Loved China: The Fantastic Story of the Eccentric Scientist Who Unlocked the Mysteries of the Middle Kingdom, by Simon Winchester. Kaiser: Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland, by Patrick Radden Keefe.Like the podcasts at SupChina? Help us out by taking this brief survey.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Liú Déhǎi 刘德海, master of the pipa, a type of Chinese lute, died at the age of 83 on April 11, 2020. Liu was born in Shanghai in 1937. He received his early music education there before the Communist victory in 1949, and went on to become one of the idealistic young musicians who tried to form a specifically Chinese orchestral tradition. He learned a number of traditional instruments but became famous for playing the pipa, as well as for arranging and composing for it. Among many other achievements, he went on to play with both the Boston Symphony Orchestra and the Berlin Philharmonic. Liu’s most famous work is “Ambush From All Sides” (十面埋伏 shímiàn máifú), which is featured in this podcast. It’s an ancient tune, but he rearranged it into the intense version you hear on this podcast — perhaps the closest thing to heavy metal that China produced before the 1990s, but played by one man on one acoustic instrument. In this Sinica Podcast Extra, Jeremy talks to classical composer and avant-garde guzheng performer Wu Fei about Liu, his legacy, and the amazing “Ambush From All Sides.” (Full disclosure: Fei is Jeremy’s wife.)You can hear Ambush From All Sides on the podcast itself, but you might also want to look at Liu’s amazing technique in this Youtube video. The painting at Mogao Caves in Dunhuang mentioned in the podcast is Playing the pipa behind the head.Like the podcasts at SupChina? Help us out by taking this brief survey. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In a show taped in late February, Kaiser chats with Barbara Finamore, senior attorney and senior strategic director, Asia, for the Natural Resources Defense Council, who shares her perspective on China's impressive progress in curbing greenhouse gas emissions, reducing the price of renewable energy, and producing electric vehicles. Tune in for a rare bit of optimism in these tough times!6:05: How much China has invested in renewable infrastructure14:48: The impetus behind Chinese environmental reform28:59: The unsung heroes of China’s environmental movement35:44: How jobs in clean energy can help revitalize an economy45:23: Zero-emissions vehicles, and what the U.S. can learnRecommendations:Barbara: Subscribing to the China Dialogue newsletter, for updates on environmental news in China. Kaiser: The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America’s Great Migration, by Isabel Wilkerson.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week, we bring you another show from the California podcast series that Kaiser recorded back in December, before the ravages of COVID-19. Take a break from thinking about the virus to listen to Michael McFaul, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia, talk about why China requires a very different foreign policy approach than Russia. 4:31: Ideology and remnants of the Cold War13:57: Promoting democratic values in Russia22:22: Public diplomacy work in the 21st century38:47: What to make of Chinese influence operations abroadRecommendations:Michael: The Third Revolution: Xi Jinping and the New Chinese State, by Elizabeth Economy, Following the Leader, by David Lampton, and Leadership and the Rise of Great Powers, by Yan Xuetong.Kaiser: Basin and Range, by John McPhee.  Like our podcasts? Help us out and take a moment to fill out this survey by SupChina.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

On this week's show, veteran reporter Dexter "Tiff" Roberts chats with Kaiser and Jeremy about his new book, The Myth of Chinese Capitalism: The Worker, the Factory, and the Future of the World.6:28: What is the myth of Chinese capitalism?20:17: Chinese migrant workers and their children35:54: Labor conditions in China40:28: Strikes, the CCP, and labor union overhaul45:48: Taobao villages and the transformation of the Chinese countrysideRecommendations:Jeremy: Videos for children in Chinese and English, coupled with improvised music by Wu Fei. Dexter: From the Soil: The Foundations of Chinese Society, by Fèi Xiàotōng 费孝通. Kaiser: The first two books in the trilogy by Hilary Mantel: Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Kaiser continues his California series with a conversation with Janet Yang, one of the legends of the U.S.-China film world, and Michael Berry, a professor at UCLA and a leading expert on Chinese cinema. They discuss how politics and other factors have taken the shine off the initial promise of U.S.-China film collaboration, but how some bright spots remain. This episode is part of the California series of podcasts, made possible by the Serica Initiative.6:07: The Golden Horse and Golden Rooster Awards11:41: A “perfect storm” for Chinese film industry disruptions23:12: Sentiments of Chinese filmmakers in the current moment39:29: Censorship, film, and the era of hypersensitivityRecommendations:Janet: An animated movie that she created, based on a story about Cháng’é 嫦娥, the Chinese goddess of the Moon. Set to be released in fall 2020. Michael: The bands Plini and The Aristocrats. Kaiser: A book by Timothy C. Winegard, The Mosquito: A Human History of Our Deadliest Predator.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In a show taped live at the China-U.S. Summit at Duke University on February 29, Kaiser chats with Ambassador Craig Allen, the longtime Asia-based diplomat who now serves as president of the U.S.-China Business Council. Topics include the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on U.S. businesses with China exposure, the major issues plaguing American companies, the phase one trade deal inked in January, and more.6:18: COVID-19 and decoupling12:11: The role of business communities in the U.S.-China relationship24:00: Where does Silicon Valley stand?34:40: State-level sentiments outside the BeltwayRecommendations:Craig: Capitalism, Alone: The Future of the System That Rules the World, by Branko Milanovic, and a report by BusinessEurope titled The EU and China - Addressing the systemic challenge. Kaiser: Black Wave: Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Forty-Year Rivalry That Unraveled Culture, Religion, and Collective Memory in the Middle East, by Kim Ghattas.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode, part of Sinica's California series, Kaiser chats with Alex Wang, a professor of law at UCLA and an expert on China's environmental law. Just back from the COP25 meeting in Madrid, Alex provides an informed and dispassionate assessment of China’s efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.8:26: China and the EU on climate change21:42: Is coal making a resurgence in China? 26:22: The carbon impact of the Belt and Road Initiative30:15: How California collaborates with China on climate change39:21: Predictions for the 2020 UN Climate Change ConferenceRecommendations:Alex: The report Accelerating the low carbon transition, by David G. Victor, Frank W. Geels, and Simon Sharpe, and The Science and Politics of Global Climate Change: A Guide to the Debate, by Andrew Dressler.Kaiser: The Netflix miniseries Trotsky, available with subtitles in English.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

From the Xinhai Revolution of 1911 that ended the Qing dynasty to the Second Sino-Japanese War to Tiananmen in 1989 and Hong Kong 30 years later, songs have inspired and united people in protest and political movements in China. In this episode, Kaiser chats with Jeff Wasserstrom of the University of California, Irvine, about the anthems that have animated activism, and about Jeff’s new book, Vigil: Hong Kong on the Brink.The episode is part of the Serica Initiative’s series of California-based podcasts. 7:18: “Wolf,” by Chyi Chin13:37: “Nothing to My Name,” by Cui Jian30:47: “Glory to Hong Kong,” by Thomas dgx yhl44:33: A preview of Jeff’s book, Vigil: Hong Kong on the BrinkRecommendations:Jeff: 33 Revolutions Per Minute: A History of Protest Songs, From Billie Holiday to Green Day, by Dorian Lynskey.Kaiser: The albums Making Movies, by Dire Straits, and Voyage of the Acolyte, by Steve Hackett.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In a live show taped at the Asia Society, in partnership with ChinaFile, Kaiser sat down to chat with prolific author Mara Hvistendahl at the launch event of her latest book, The Scientist and the Spy: A True Story of China, the FBI, and Industrial Espionage. Written in the style of a thriller, this page-turner is well researched, admirably balanced, and incredibly timely. 12:49: Accusations against the scientists featured in the book21:54: Instances of racial profiling against Chinese scientists28:14: How to promote competitiveness with China42:04: A passage from The Scientist and the SpyRecommendations:Mara: Thread of the Silkworm, by Iris Chang. Kaiser: How Democracies Die, by Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week, we feature an episode from the newest member of our Sinica Podcast Network: the China in Africa Podcast, hosted by Eric Olander and Cobus van Staden. The United States sees Africa as a key arena to confront China's rising influence in the developing world. With its $60 billion International Development Finance Corporation and its Prosper Africa policy framework unveiled last year, the Trump administration is working hard to present African governments with an alternative development model. The problem is that U.S. officials don't have a lot to show for their efforts. This week, the China in Africa Podcast explores the complex U.S.-China-Africa relationship with two of Washington's leading experts on the issue. W. Gyude Moore is a visiting fellow at the Center for Global Development and the former public works minister of Liberia and Aubrey Hruby is a senior fellow at the Africa Center at the Atlantic Council.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Kaiser and Jeremy chat with Yanzhong Huang, senior fellow for global health at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), where he directs the Global Health Governance roundtable series. In addition to his role at CFR, Yanzhong is also a professor at Seton Hall University’s School of Diplomacy and International Relations, making him an ideal guest to talk about a pathogen with major domestic and international political implications. Recommendations:Jeremy: Three pieces from SupChina: Kenyan students in Wuhan plead for evacuation, by April Zhu; The disappearance of Perhat Tursun, one of the Uyghur world’s greatest authors, by Darren Byler; and Chinese moms in America’s illicit massage parlors, by Teng Chen. Yanzhong: Two movies, Outbreak and 28 Days Later. Kaiser: The subtle muckrakers of the coronavirus epidemic, by Maria Repnikova.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

With the United States now in a presidential election year, how should an incoming administration — whether a Democratic presidency or a second Trump administration — approach China policy? This week, Kaiser chats with eminent scholars Susan Shirk and Barry Naughton of the University of California, San Diego’s School of Global Policy and Strategy, and asks them how they would advise the future occupant of the Oval Office. This episode is part of the California series, produced with the assistance of the Serica Initiative, SupChina’s nonprofit program.23:18: Relitigating the case for engagement26:44: The biggest economic hurdles for the U.S. and China39:33: Addressing technological concerns with the P.R.C.44:54: Shaping China policy for the future: Rebuild as it was, or begin anew? Recommendations:Barry: Our Man: Richard Holbrooke and the End of the American Century, by George Packer.Susan: Deng Xiaoping and the Transformation of China, by Ezra F. Vogel.Kaiser: The New China Scare, in the January/February edition of Foreign Affairs, by Fareed Zakaria. This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In the aftermath of the targeted killing of Qasem Soleimani in early January, Kaiser talked to Jeff Prescott, a veteran China-watcher who now serves as a senior advisor to the Penn Biden Center. Jeff previously served as Special Assistant to President Obama, Senior Director for Iran, Iraq, Syria, and the Gulf States on the National Security Council, and Deputy National Security Advisor to Vice President Biden.This show was taped live at the inaugural U.S.-China Series conference in Seattle, Washington, on January 15, 2020. 6:05: Bringing China into the Iran Nuclear Deal12:31: The role of oil in China-Iran relations21:36: Reflections on the trade war and phase one trade deal32:49: Creating a grand strategy while China looms largeRecommendations:Jeff: The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration, by Isabel Wilkerson.Kaiser: Lakota America: A New History of Indigenous Power (The Lamar Series in Western History), by Pekka Hämäläinen. This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Maggie Lewis, a law professor at Seton Hall University, discusses the recent presidential election in Taiwan, where she and other Chinese and Taiwanese legal scholars took part as independent observers. Maggie and Kaiser also discuss domestic Taiwanese politics, the impact of demographic and social trends within the context of the election, and cross-Strait relations in 2020.4:49: Political posturing toward the P.R.C.14:51: How the Hong Kong protests affected the election in Taiwan24:48: China, and Taiwanese independence32:18: The political views of Tsai Ing-wen37:00: Did China interfere in Taiwan’s presidential election?Recommendations:Maggie: Two recommendations related to the Pacific Northwest, where Maggie went to school: the band Sleater-Kinney and the Portland bookstore Powell’s.Kaiser: The Light That Failed: Why the West Is Losing the Fight for Democracy, by Ivan Krasnev and Stephen Holmes.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Kaiser chats with Professor Tai Ming Cheung of the University of California, San Diego. Tai is the director of the UC Institute on Global Conflict and Cooperation (IGCC) and also a leading expert on Chinese national security and defense modernization. This episode is part of a nine-part series taped in California in December 2019, made possible by the Serica Initiative, SupChina's nonprofit arm.5:30: What the international security environment looks like to Xi Jinping14:47: How prioritization on national security is implemented22:38: How the PLA is funded, and where the money is going28:36: Made in China 2025’s military counterpart37:33: Beijing’s long march to technological self-relianceRecommendations:Tai: In the Shadow of the Garrison State, by Aaron L. Friedberg. Kaiser: A new podcast, The Industrial Revolutions, by David Broker.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

On this week’s show, Kaiser chats with Alejandro Reyes, an associate professor at the University of Hong Kong and a former senior policy adviser to Canada’s assistant deputy minister for Asia Pacific, about the ongoing Hong Kong protests and the spread of violence to some of Hong Kong’s best-known universities in November. Alejandro offers his take on this phase of the protests, and on how half a year of incessant protests has impacted the mental health of young Hongkongers.Recommendations:Alejandro: Talking to my mother about Hong Kong, by SupChina columnist Yangyang Cheng. You can find more of her work here.Kaiser: The Mosquito: A Human History of Our Deadliest Predator, by Timothy C. Winegard.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In a show taped in Seattle, Kaiser chats with Gary Rieschel, founding managing partner of Qiming Venture Partners. With 30 unicorns and over 30 exits, Qiming has been one of the most successful VCs in China, investing in numerous companies that have gone on to become household names in the country. Gary reflects on his years in China and the folly of decoupling.Recommendations:Gary: Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand, and Factfulness, by Hans Rosling. Kaiser: Watchmen, the new show on HBO created by Damon Lindelof. This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Gary Locke served as the U.S. ambassador to China from 2011 to 2014. Locke was not only the first Chinese-American ambassador to China, but also the first Chinese-American state governor and secretary of commerce. This week on Sinica, he joins Kaiser in a show taped in Seattle, Washington, to talk about his early visits to his ancestral village in China's Guangdong Province, the attempted defection of Chongqing police chief and erstwhile Bó Xīlái 薄熙来 underling Wáng Lìjūn 王立军 to the U.S. consulate in Chengdu, and rare details about the flight of blind dissident lawyer Chén Guāngchéng 陈光诚 to the U.S. embassy in Beijing.7:58: State-level interactions with China17:54: Working as the secretary of commerce under President Obama33:32: Wang Lijun’s attempted defection 41:55: A look back at the Chen Guangcheng debacle 1:01:09: Xi Jinping, and how he changedRecommendations:Gary: Knives Out, written and directed by Rian Johnson, and the movie Parasite, directed by Bong Joon-ho. Kaiser: The blog Reading the China Dream, which contains a collection of translated works of Chinese intellectuals.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In a show taped in front of a live audience at SupChina’s NEXT China conference, Kaiser and Jeremy chatted with particle physicist Yangyang Cheng, one of the boldest new voices writing on science and contemporary China. Get to know the woman behind SupChina’s Science and China column.2:38: A day in the life of a particle physicist8:26: Scientific research and the state15:15: The overlap between politics and science24:28: Is technocracy problematic?Recommendations:Jeremy: A new podcast called You Can Learn Chinese, hosted by John Pasden and Jared Turner.  Yangyang: The author James Baldwin and his novels, as well as a collection of short films titled Ten Years, which depict a dystopian future for Hong Kong in the year 2025. Kaiser: Middlemarch, by George Eliot.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian, who covers China for Axios, was the lead reporter on an explosive leak of documents detailing the ongoing repression of Uyghurs and other Muslims in China’s Xinjiang Autonomous Region. This week, she joins Kaiser and Jeremy to discuss her report, titled Exposed: China’s Operating Manuals for Mass Internment and Arrest by Algorithm. The leaks include what she describes as a "manual for operating the camps," and reveal how Chinese police are using big data to identify individuals deemed at risk for Islamic extremism or separatism in Xinjiang.9:43: What do the leaks mean?14:53: A timeline of events in Xinjiang18:57: The “Integrated Joint Operations Platform”24:50: The world’s highest-stakes “testing,” in Xinjiang camps33:58: What can, and should, the U.S. do?Recommendations:Jeremy: One Long Night: A Global History of Concentration Camps, by Andrea Pitzer. Bethany: The Origins of Totalitarianism, by Hannah Arendt, a look at totalitarian governments in the 20th century. Kaiser: The December issue of The Atlantic, themed “How to Stop a Civil War.” With an emphasis on a few essays: The dark psychology of social networks, by Jonathan Haidt and Tobias Rose-Stockwell; Too much democracy is bad for democracy, by Jonathan Rauch and Ray La Raja; and The dishonesty of the abortion debate, by Caitlin Flanagan.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sinica brings you a little levity for this Thanksgiving weekend: In one of the last live events taped at the storied Bookworm in Beijing, which shut its doors this month, the Royal Asiatic Society of Beijing sponsored a debate over a simple proposition: The Ming was better than the Qing. Four seasoned China-watchers battle it out for dynastic supremacy. Who will prevail?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In a podcast taped live for the Asia Society of Switzerland in Zurich, Kaiser is joined by Kristin Shi-Kupfer, director of the Research Area on Public Policy and Society at the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS) in Berlin, and Evgeny Morozov, contributing editor at the New Republic and author of The Net Delusion: The Dark Side of Internet Freedom and To Save Everything, Click Here: The Folly of Technological Solutionism. They discuss the shifting narratives about the relationship between technology and authoritarian politics, and how these shifts have been affected by China’s rise as a technology power. 6:48: What we got wrong about China’s censorship regime15:28: Was the internet ever meant to set us free?25:20: Two competing visions for the internet39:55: The role of the private sector versus the state51:42: What role does the internet play in society?Recommendations:Kristin: The Romance of the Three Kingdoms podcast. Evgeny: An essay in the most recent version of the New Left Review, Automation and the future of work—1, by Aaron Benanav. Kaiser: The audiobook version of A Hero Born: The Definitive Edition (The Legend of the Condor Heroes, volume 1), authored by Jin Yong and translated by Anna Holmwood.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Fuchsia Dunlop, the preeminent writer on Chinese cuisine in the English language, has published a completely revised and updated version of Land of Plenty, her classic book on Sichuan cookery, containing 70 new recipes. Her newest book is titled The Food of Sichuan. She joins Kaiser and guest host Jim Millward of Georgetown University in a discussion of this wildly popular cuisine — and how to get started as a Sichuan chef in your own kitchen.12:18: Are there eight regional cuisines in China?21:20: Sichuanese food going global26:37: Sichuan cooking 10135:01: Useful “hacks” for cooking and preparation41:20: Food fads in China and how they migrateRecommendations:Jim: Give Fuchsia a follow on Instagram; Women and China’s Revolutions, by Gail Hershatter; and the Los Angeles–based Cambodian and American psychedelic rock band Dengue Fever. Kaiser: A Thousand Small Sanities: The Moral Adventure of Liberalism, by Adam Gopnik. Fuchsia: Away: A Novel, by Amy Bloom; The Cooking Gene: A Journey Through African American Cultural History in the Old South, by Michael W. Twitty; and the soon-to-be-released posthumous album, Thanks for the Dance, by singer-songwriter Leonard Cohen. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Kaiser talks about the state of charitable giving in China with Scott Kennedy, senior adviser and Trustee Chair in Chinese Business and Economics at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). Has philanthropy kept pace with the growth of wealth? And how have charities fared under Xi Jinping and China’s new laws governing NGOs and charity?6:36: How has charity fared under Xi Jinping?13:04: Party apprehensions about philanthropic giving20:18: Red lines for foreign philanthropy in China29:28: Where is Chinese funding going abroad? 34:52: How philanthropy in China has changed over timeRecommendations:Scott: The China Hustle, by Magnolia Pictures.Kaiser: A birthday letter to the People’s Republic, by Yangyang Cheng. She also writes the Science and China column for SupChina.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this live show taped at New York University on October 16, Jeremy and Kaiser spoke with Jerry Cohen, the doyen of American studies of Chinese law. We explore the legal foundations for the Hong Kong handover in 1997, and how imprecision has contributed to many of the difficulties playing out in Hong Kong's streets today.5:43: Ambiguity in Hong Kong Basic Law19:38: A look at the 2019 Hong Kong extradition bill32:35: Changing repercussions for detained and imprisoned Hongkongers37:59: Hong Kong’s legal system wilting under pressure from Beijing51:08: The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019Recommendations:Jeremy: A series of oral histories by Ben Mauk, Weather Reports: Voices from Xinjiang.Jerry: The works of a few individuals shining a light on the atrocities occurring in Xinjiang: James Leibold, Jim Millward, and Adrian Zenz. Kaiser: Antisocial: Online Extremists, Techno-Utopians, and the Hijacking of the American Conversation, by Andrew Marantz.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Neil Thomas of MacroPolo sits down with Kaiser to talk about what we know — and what we don’t know — about popular support for the Chinese political leadership. Taking into account the effects of censorship and propaganda, how much “natural” regime support is left, and what explains it? 8:51: How reliable are public opinion surveys of regime support?19:53: Ian Johnson’s NYT op-ed on the October 1 parade22:20: The Party and the People38:18: Anniversaries and “dark anniversaries” — the significance of 201943:56: Hong Kong and Party legitimacyRecommendations:Neil: “Twists in the Belt and Road,” by Ryan Manuel. Kaiser: New episodes of The China History Podcast on the Warlord Period.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Samm Sacks, a Cybersecurity Policy and China Digital Economy Fellow at New America, speaks with Kaiser on Huawei’s nebulous role in the U.S.-China trade war, Beijing’s long march to technological self-reliance, and the growing U.S. Commerce Department Entity List. This episode was recorded live at the Columbia China and the World Forum 2019, on September 28, 2019, at Columbia University. 4:12: Trading Huawei for soybeans11:24: The growing Entity List22:16: Beijing’s retaliation 25:09: Silicon Valley’s varying views27:21: Censorship on TikTok and Bytedance Recommendations:Samm: Novels by Irish millennial Sally Rooney, for her ability to invoke emotions you didn’t know you had.Kaiser: Guitar nerd galore. Effects pedals by brand Mooer — the Radar Speaker CAB Simulator, and the overdrive pedal called the Hustle Drive — as well as the JAM BUDDY by JOYO.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Jude Blanchette, the Freeman Chair in China Studies at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), joins Kaiser for a discussion of the ongoing Hong Kong protests, possible U.S. responses, Beijing's puzzling inaction, the perspectives of mainland Chinese, and media coverage of ongoing events in Hong Kong.4:52: Hong Kong’s young democratic leaders15:39: The volatility of the Hong Kong protests27:10: Mainland sentiments on Hong Kong38:21: Media coverage of the protests46:04: Speaking Mandarin, a new liability in Hong Kong?Recommendations:Jude: How Hong Kong got to this point, an essay by Richard Bush. Kaiser: Our Man: Richard Holbrooke and the End of the American Century, by George Packer.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Episode 53 of TechBuzz China is about NetEase. Listen to learn about the company’s founder, William Ding, and how he built a $33 billion empire based on a unique business style as well as on his belief that a company doesn’t need a direction or specific labels. Today, NetEase’s offerings range from email to publishing and developing games, and from breeding pigs to educating people. This episode originally aired on October 4, 2019. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

SupChina is celebrating Golden Week with a few of our best episodes from the Sinica Podcast Network. For today’s selection, enjoy this interview with Peter Hessler on ChinaEconTalk, along with host Jordan Schneider.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

SupChina is celebrating Golden Week with a few of our best episodes from the Sinica Podcast Network. Today, please enjoy episode 22 of Ta for Ta, hosted by Juliana Batista.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

SupChina is celebrating Golden Week with a few of our best episodes from the Sinica Podcast Network. Today, please enjoy episode 16 of the Middle Earth Podcast, hosted by Aladin Farré.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Sinica Podcast this week features an exclusive recording of a China Institute event in New York on September 17 that sought to answer this question: How can the United States live with a rising China, an ideologically different country that is home to one-fifth of humanity? Joe Kahn, the managing editor of the New York Times and the paper’s former Beijing bureau chief, moderates the discussion with Ezra Vogel, the eminent Harvard University professor and author, and Orville Schell, author and the director of the Center on U.S.-China Relations at the Asia Society.What to listen for on this week’s Sinica Podcast:10:50: Changing rhetoric: Harmful or helpful?24:32: The future of the “China model”33:09: Trump’s impact on U.S.-China relations38:24: The legacy of engagement41:04: A case for reengagement with ChinaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on the Sinica Podcast, Kaiser and Jeremy speak with Christian Shepherd, the Beijing correspondent for the Financial Times. They discuss his debut long-form piece for the FT, Fear and oppression in Xinjiang: China’s war on Uighur culture, dive into the policy drivers behind the assimilation efforts being carried out by the central government in Xinjiang, and discuss his experiences while reporting from the region.What to listen for on this week’s Sinica Podcast:16:22: In an effort to forcefully assimilate Xinjiang into greater China, public signage in Uyghur has been replaced with Mandarin Chinese, and bookstores have been emptied of Uyghur-language texts. Christian noticed the same trend in legal language: “If you look at policy documents now, in Xinjiang and other regions, there has been that shift [to Mandarin]. The use of hanyu [汉语 hànyǔ, Mandarin Chinese] is diminished. Instead, it’s all guoyu [国语 guóyǔ, national language].” The linguistic replacement is also occurring in schools. Christian states: “In fact, in the schooling system, the emphasis is on that national language, instead of [on] the idea of there being multiple languages that were on an equal status.” 34:26: Have there been any legal efforts to change the language within the Chinese constitution regarding minority policy? Christian explains: “I think there’s a real desire on the part of the Party to continue to pay lip service to the idea of being the champion of minority rights. Clearly, that is what is talked about through all government propaganda, and you see it in billboards all over Xinjiang about how Xi Jinping cares about the rights of the individual, [about] minorities, and about fostering ethnic unity and how that will lead to one great big family nationally.” Recommendations:Jeremy: The Planet Money podcast, particularly episode 939, The Working Tapes of Studs Terkel. Christian: Under Red Skies, by Karoline Kan, and the work of Darren Byler, including his column at SupChina and his blog, Living Otherwise. Kaiser: A documentary, The Brink, by director Alison Klayman.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Sinica Podcast Network is proud to introduce the latest member of our family, Strangers in China, hosted by Clay Baldo. It features the voices of an emergent new China. Dissident voices, outspoken voices, marginalized voices, queer voices. Some are people who just find one aspect of living in China unreasonable, others are people who are rebellious. Some want to push the boundaries creatively, while others are just fighting to be seen. All are uniquely Chinese.People who think differently can feel out of place in China and we capture that experience. Our perspective: If they live differently, they see Chinese society in a new way. We’re here to listen closely and illuminate their stories.Subscribe to Strangers in China to hear the voices of a new China. Find the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Stitcher, or plug the RSS feed directly in to your favorite podcast app.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week, Sinica features a chat with Ed Pulford, author of the recent book Mirrorlands: Russia, China, and Journeys in Between. Kaiser chats with Ed about the Sino-Russian border and Ed’s anthropological travelogue exploring the border’s past and present.What to listen for on this week’s Sinica Podcast:28:06: Ed describes some of the tensions and perceptions that exist in the borderlands between Siberia and China’s northeast: “I think the increasing presence of Chinese ‘things’ — whether it’s material objects, consumer goods, or people who are coming over as tourists increasingly but also for longer as traders in the post-Soviet era — it’s a big shock and it has [presented] a lot of worries about the osmotic potential for what would happen if things were balanced out in terms of population and land use.”43:43: Ed talks about Leonid, a Nanai man (赫哲族, Hèzhézú) whom he met during his travels along the Russian-Chinese border, his own ethnic awakening, and others that are occurring (and not occurring) around the world. “Among many, many indigenous groups of the Far East, the Far North, and Siberia, the post-Soviet period has been one where interest in global indigeneity — whether it’s Native American populations, Maori, or any other global indigenous cause — [there has] been a huge boom.” Ed explains that within China, conditions are different: “There’s been a lot of this inter-indigenous group communication and networking. Whereas in China, at least from the Hèzhé and other groups, including the Éluósīzú and other minority groups, they’re part of a Chinese world that is not so much a part of those same discussions.” Recommendations:Ed: The Crab Cannery Ship and Other Novels of Struggle, by Kobayashi Takiji, and National Book Award finalist Pachinko, by Minjin Lee.Kaiser: Ivanhoe, a 1982 film adaptation of the original work by Sir Walter Scott.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

On this week’s podcast, Kaiser and Jeremy speak with Andy Rothman, an investment strategist at Matthews Asia, to get his take on recent developments in the U.S.-China trade war. Andy lived in China for over 20 years, and was previously the chief China strategist for the brokerage and investment group CLSA after a long career in the U.S. Foreign Service. What to listen for on this week’s Sinica Podcast:14:09: Andy comments on the protracted detentions of Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig: “They need to treat the two Canadians as they would like Chinese to be treated in Canada and the United States. That’s not happening and it’s sending the wrong message, and it’s further politicizing what should be a technical issue. So, I’m hoping we’re going to see some progress on this, but certainly I don’t see any signs in that direction at the moment.” He also says a voice of reason could come from an unlikely place: “I would also like to see Huawei, as a company, speak out against this kind of retaliation.” In addition, he notes that he has mentioned this to individuals at the company, but “they did not have any response.”36:54: Andy chimes in on the issue of engagement versus decoupling: “I think the engagement option for dealing with China versus decoupling and containment gets a bad rap. I think it’s really important for us to look back over the last 40 years of engagement and recognize that it has worked pretty well. Both for Americans and Chinese citizens, and that should be important for us, too.” He continues, diving into the numbers: “On the trade side, we’ve gotten fantastic access. China was an irrelevant player on the global economy up until 20 years ago. Now it’s our number one trading partner. Since China joined the WTO, U.S. exports are up to China about 500 percent, whereas they’re only up about 100 percent to the rest of the world. Prior to the tariff dispute, agricultural exports to China were up over 1,000 percent, and it was our biggest market.” Recommendations:Jeremy: The Secrets of the Hopewell Box: Stolen Elections, Southern Politics, and a City's Coming of Age, by James D. Squires.Andy: The Code: Silicon Valley and the Remaking of America, by Margaret O’Mara.  Kaiser: American Factory, by Steven Bognar and Julia Reichert, available on Netflix. Kaiser’s review of the documentary can be found on our website here.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Jessica Chen Weiss is Associate Professor of Government at Cornell University and a prolific writer on Chinese nationalism and China's international relations. Kaiser sat down with her recently to hear her ideas on how we should understand what it is that Beijing ultimately wants, on how to right-size the challenges that China poses to the liberal world order, and about the CCP's relationship with its own nationalistic populace.What to listen for on this week’s Sinica Podcast:10:44: Has China played a role in the global retreat from democracy? Jessica provides some insight: “I think there’s a greater risk of exaggerating China’s role and not recognizing the domestic factors, and other international factors that are leading to democratic backsliding around the world. China has done some things, first, to demonstrate that autocracy can work, sort of leading by example. It’s also made cheap financing available to governments that wouldn’t otherwise have access to it. It has exported some technologies that governments can use to surveil their populations. But I don’t think that it has by and large been the main force driving democratic backsliding and erosion.”27:56: Jessica describes the tightrope Beijing must walk when navigating an increasingly hawkish Chinese public, referencing an article she wrote in May of this year: “I think surveys can help establish the baseline public opinion the Chinese government faces as it tries to navigate international disputes...the government has a lot of leeway to maneuver vis-à-vis public opinion. Rhetoric can obviously shape public opinion, and it’s important to document that. But, they still face costs for doing so. And the more hawkish the public is, the more the Chinese government has to dial back that appetite for conflict when trying to finesse a particular diplomatic situation in which maybe the online public is calling for war. There’s not a winning scenario there.” Recommendations:Jessica: Always Be My Maybe, with Ali Wong and Randall Park, and Born a Crime: Stories from a South African Childhood by Trevor Noah. Kaiser: The award-winning TV series, Breaking Bad. This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Matt Sheehan, former China correspondent for the Huffington Post and current fellow at the MacroPolo think tank, discusses his new book, The Transpacific Experiment: How China and California Collaborate and Compete for Our Future. In this episode, Matt talks through a few select chapters of his book with Jeremy and Kaiser, such as the fracturing linkages between Silicon Valley and the Chinese tech industry, the story of Dalian Wanda entering the United States, and his outlook on the future of the U.S.-China relationship.What to listen for on this week’s Sinica Podcast:16:23: Matt describes the thought process within universities courting overseas Chinese students hurt by funding cuts and the recession: “There’s a sense that if we as a society, as an economy, as a government, are not willing to step up to the plate on a national or state level, then local actors are going to do whatever they need to do, or whatever they can to fill those holes…And I think the same thing happened in universities across the board. They knew that they weren’t going to be able to reverse the effects of the financial crisis or the long term defunding of our public education. As they looked around, the most promising source right there, was China.” 42:02: What is the toll being taken on tech ecosystems between the U.S. and China? Matt provides his take: “Right now, with the trade war and all the tensions, I see a lot of this as our attempt to ‘resolve’ the paradox — bring these things into balance, not through further integration, but by tearing apart many of those links at the ground level. Preventing integration in terms of people, sealing off money from going between them, and also looking to basically seal off ideas in one way or another.”Recommendations: Jeremy: Jeremy’s two favorite Chinese films, both classics by Zhang Yimou: To Live and Keep Cool. Matt: A call to action for more people to study and research the artificial intelligence relationship between the United States and China.Kaiser: Europe: A History, by Norman Davies. This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This special episode of Sinica starring our very own Jeremy Goldkorn was recorded in New York on July 17. With decades of experience in China-related business, entrepreneurship, and media, Jeremy shares his views on the latest developments in Chinese business, technology, and politics, and tells personal stories from his 20 years living in China.What to listen for on this week’s Sinica Podcast:“Everyday you see something you don’t see every day.” —Jim McGregor, on living in China11:26: Throughout (almost) all of Jeremy’s entire professional life, he’s provided English-reading viewers coverage of China. But why? Jeremy: “First of all, it’s very interesting. China has never been well covered, ever, by European or American media. Not that there aren’t journalist and writers and scholars who do great work, but if you think about how much we know about every single city block in Manhattan compared to vast swathes of China that there’s no information at all in English — physically, culturally, or intellectually.” 20:59: Beijing was a very different place during the 90s and early 2000s. Since that time, young Chinese people are now, in Jeremy’s words, “smarter, more talented, and more qualified — and they understand China better than [westerners].” Nowadays, many job opportunities afforded to foreigners coming to China are gone. Jeremy goes on to say, laughing, “China is so different now, how can you compare? There were donkey carts on the second ring road in 1995. Now you can’t cross it because there are too many Maseratis there.” 41:30: Kaiser asks Jeremy about the “outsize role” that U.S.-China relations play in the discussion on China. Jeremy tells Kaiser, “It used to annoy me the way Americans always assume your baseline for normalcy is American…you know, Chinese people and American people are very similar in this way, they only really see their country and ‘the other big one’ — I think the Chinese people taught me to be tolerant of American self-centeredness.”This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week, while Kaiser is vacationing on the Carolina coast, we are running a March 2014 interview with Orville Schell and David Moser. Orville is the Arthur Ross Director of the Center on U.S.-China Relations at Asia Society in New York and formerly served as dean of the UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism. The discussion in this episode centers on the book co-authored by Schell and John Delury, Wealth and Power: China’s Long March to the Twenty-First Century, and the role of select members of the Chinese intelligentsia in the formation of modern China. What to listen for on this week’s Sinica Podcast: 7:56: Orville opens the discussion describing how he and John Delury arrived at Wealth and Power as the title for their book: “For us, to try to sense what was the main current flowing through Chinese history — it was in fact, we concluded, this desire to see China great again. To become a country of consequence, and ‘wealth’ and ‘power’ really described it. And it was something that almost everybody in some form or [another] — whether nationalist, communist, dynastic, anarchist, Christian — they all understood that aspect, and I think that was a tremendously important, animating impulse that got us to the present.” 25:21: Orville recalls sitting in the front row at a summit held between Jiang Zemin and Bill Clinton, the dialogue of which is included in Wealth and Power: “I was sitting right there during [the summit], in the front row, watching Jiang Zemin with ‘Bubba,’ the master of repartee, and trying to imitate him. It was quite touching, he did quite well. And looking back on it, there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that Hu Jintao or Xi Jinping would risk such a wager.” 41:56: Jeremy asks Orville about his placement of Liu Xiaobo at the end of his book, and what Liu’s question is for China and China’s future. He responds candidly: “I think the question that he poses for China, and indeed all of us, is: What’s the real goal? For him, the real goal is not to simply be wealthy and powerful…and I think also what’s lurking in the back of his critique is something that the leaders now sort of see but are quite surprised by. Namely that getting wealthy and getting powerful doesn’t, as everybody thought for these 170 years, create ipso facto respect. And that is what is really wanted. That’s why there’s such an incredible fixation on soft power.” Recommendations: Orville: Now I Know Who My Comrades Are: Voices From the Internet Underground, by Emily Parker, and Age of Ambition: Chasing Fortune, Truth, and Faith in the New China, by Evan Osnos. David: Marketing Dictatorship: Propaganda and Thought Work in Contemporary China, by Anne-Marie Brady. Jeremy: The blog East by Southeast.  Kaiser: The Chinese Enlightenment: Intellectuals and the Legacy of the May Fourth Movement of 1919, by Vera Schwarcz.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Emily Feng is one of the rising stars among China reporters. She’s about to take up her post in Beijing as National Public Radio’s correspondent after an illustrious run with the Financial Times. In a show taped a few months ago, Emily speaks with Kaiser and Jeremy about her most recent reporting for the FT, covering important topics related to Xinjiang and technology. She also reflects on why, as a Chinese American, she feels like she’s under added pressure to present accurate and balanced reporting on China. What to listen for on this week’s Sinica Podcast: 14:02: Emily discusses the changing scope of topics that have garnered media coverage recently: “This year, rather than having conversations about #MeToo or Black Lives Matter, which, I think, really dominated discussions in the past two years, it's been about Chinese students [and] Chinese identity.” She also discusses a scandal at Duke University — Emily’s alma mater — in which an assistant professor at Duke University urged Chinese students via email to “commit to speaking English 100 percent of the time.” “Chinese Americans have always been very politically quiet. And I come from a Chinese-American family, [so] this is what has been taught to me: Don’t stick your head up. But I think that with what’s happening in the U.S.-China relationship, Chinese Americans are going to have to figure out what their stance is to partake more in political discussions happening on campuses [and] at the local government level.” 18:49: Emily, who has reported extensively on Xinjiang, reflects on her trips there in 2017 and 2018, and the rapidly deteriorating conditions for Uyghur Muslims in the region. “It was very, very evident that things were different. People [in 2017] could still talk freely about what was happening. You would talk to people in taxis, in restaurants — I met up with a number of Uyghur friends and they talked quite comfortably, but fearfully, about how their phones were being hacked and people were going to jail because of content they had shared that was vaguely Muslim from four or five years ago.” Outside of the capital of Urumqi, things were different, she explains. “I went to Hotan and Kashgar in October 2017, and Hotan was just another level. It was a police state. There were tanks and cars on the streets. There were checkpoints maybe every three or four blocks within the city. It was incredibly segregated.” 38:34: Emily wrote a deep-dive story on Hikvision, a Chinese CCTV company, which touches on the moral entanglement that U.S. companies face in supplying authoritarian governments with the nuts and bolts needed to monitor and sometimes oppress or imprison individuals abroad: “There are only a handful of companies out there that can make the type of commercially competitive semiconductors, components, [and] memory hard drives that go into the electronics we use every day — including the type of surveillance technology that China uses. So, that gives American companies a huge amount of power in saying, ‘This is whom we will sell to and this is whom we will not.’ But they’re understandably reluctant in making that distinction and making what they see as political decisions because their focus is the bottom line.” Recommendations: Jeremy: Sticky Notes: The Classical Music Podcast, by Joshua Weilerstein. Emily: The show Schitt’s Creek, available with a Netflix subscription. Kaiser: Another Netflix show, Russian Doll.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Washington Post recently published an open letter signed by five scholars and former government officials: M. Taylor Fravel, Stapleton Roy, Michael Swaine, Susan Thornton, and Ezra Vogel. The letter laid out seven main arguments for why the U.S. should not treat China as an enemy, and not surprisingly, the letter got a lot of pushback from more hawkish China-watchers. This week on Sinica, Kaiser and Jeremy talk to Michael Swaine, the primary author of the open letter, about the origins and intentions of the letter and the reactions to it. Michael is a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. What to listen for on this week’s Sinica Podcast: 17:40: Michael expands on a point highlighted in the letter that was met with criticism from the wider community — “We do not believe Beijing is an economic enemy or an existential national security threat that must be confronted in every sphere” — which he says was “in part intended to try to get at [the] point that [China] is not a predatory economic entity, as the White House tends to describe it.” He acknowledges economic malfeasance by China, but pushes back on prevailing opinions on Pennsylvania Avenue regarding China’s approach to trade with the United States, noting that “of course, it’s based upon this one-dimensional, categorical, hair-on-fire notion that the Chinese are this predatory economic entity that’s out to screw everybody except themselves. It’s a fundamentally cartoonish depiction of what China is.” 27:27: What do Chinese leaders think of the United States leadership and its change of posture in the past few years? Michael speculates on where he thinks the Chinese bureaucracy’s mind is regarding foreign policy, arguing that, while there may be two highly polarized parties on either end of the spectrum, Xi Jinping lies somewhere between the two: “Xi Jinping may actually be in that middle ground, not in terms of domestic policy, but in terms of foreign policy. That is to say, he recognizes, or he thinks that, China can’t get out of the world, it can’t un-integrate from the world, it’s got to keep on trying to work with the world. And there are very concrete reasons why the United States and China, even though they may not like each other in terms of values and such, they have to cooperate.” He goes on to explain the shock that the leadership felt from the policy shifts after the 2016 election: “The Chinese leadership were taken aback by the rapidity and the extremity of the shift in the Trump administration against China. They didn’t quite expect it. They didn’t see it coming.” 36:52: What of the U.S.-China relationship beyond the current era of Trump? What should U.S. policymakers and interlocutors be articulating to their counterparts in Beijing? Michael provides his view: “We from China, a country with whom we can engage on issues that are vital to both countries and the world, we want a China whose interests are going to be supportive of continued global economic growth and development, and we want a China who is not bellicose or intimidating, through military arms, its neighbors…and that it needs to work with other parts of the international order in order to establish a more common approach to these security issues, economic issues, et cetera,” 46:05: What is the most effective approach in the U.S.-China relationship? Has the West “created a monster,” as described by Janos Kornai in a recent Financial Times article, or is there a case for reciprocity? Michael says that we “need to implement policies that are more based upon the idea of mutual accommodation,” and emphasizes the “problematic” view that “there is no such thing as mutual accommodation with the Chinese, because the Chinese will take what you give and they will pocket it and give you absolutely nothing in return.” He adds, “I think the historical record does not support that.” Recommendations: Jeremy: Read the letter ‘China is not an enemy’ in the Washington Post. Michael: Check out the exhibit on the pre-Raphaelites in the United States, located in the National Gallery in Washington, or just check out some art in general. Kaiser: The music of Anais Mitchell, a folk singer/songwriter, and the musical author behind the musical Hadestown. This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.