Shift Key with Robinson Meyer

You don’t need us to say it: The 2024 election will have enormous stakes for America’s climate policy and the planet’s climate. But how well can we quantify those stakes? What would a Trump presidency — or a Harris presidency, for that matter — really mean for the country’s emissions trajectory?  On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Jesse and Rob speak with Sonia Aggarwal, the chief executive officer of Energy Innovation, a climate policy think tank that operates across North America, Europe, and Asia. She was previously special assistant to the president for climate policy, innovation, and deployment under President Joe Biden, and she co-chaired the Biden administration’s Climate Innovation Working Group. She and Jesse — another top-notch modeler — dive into what the data can and can’t tell us about the election and how to think about energy system models in the first place. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned: The REPEAT Project’s annual report on U.S. emissions pathwaysEnergy Innovation’s report: “The Second Half of the Decisive Decade”Jesse’s upshift; Rob’s upshift.--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Antenna Group helps you connect with customers, policymakers, investors, and strategic partners to influence markets and accelerate adoption. Visit antennagroup.com to learn more.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It’s time to start talking about a big year for climate politics and policy: 2025. No matter who wins this fall’s elections, next year’s executive and legislative climate policy will be huge for America’s decarbonization strategy. Congress is all but guaranteed to negotiate over key parts of the country’s tax code, and whoever controls the White House will have to finalize the Inflation Reduction Act’s last few big programs. On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Jesse and Rob are joined by Josh Freed, who leads Third Way’s climate and energy program, to game out the most likely scenarios. If Trump wins with a Republican Congress, will they repeal the Inflation Reduction Act? What if Trump wins but Democrats take the House? And what would Kamala Harris do with a trifecta? Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned: Jesse’s article for Heatmap: Manufacturing Is Back, BabyThe IRA’s Labor Provisions Look Like They’re WorkingTo Win a Climate Election, Don’t Say ‘Climate’Are Pollsters Getting Climate Change Wrong?What are the Trump tax cuts expiring in 2025?The $500 million grant for Ohio’s Middletown WorksJesse’s and Rob’s downshift.--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Antenna Group helps you connect with customers, policymakers, investors, and strategic partners to influence markets and accelerate adoption. Visit antennagroup.com to learn more.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Democrats are gathering in Chicago this week for their quadrennial convention and to celebrate Kamala Harris’s nomination for president. This year’s convention will look different from 2020’s for many reasons — but one of them is that we’re likely to hear far less about climate change. Unlike in 2020, when President Joe Biden described global warming as one of “four overlapping crises” confronting the country, Harris has been more subtle when discussing it.So … is that a problem? Should we be freaked out? On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse discuss the modern electoral politics of climate change. We talk about whether the electorate’s interest in climate issues has faded, how the Inflation Reduction Act could affect voting, and why a “quiet on climate” strategy might be okay. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned: Jesse on how the IRA is actually bringing back American manufacturingRob on how housing could be Kamala’s housing policyThe IRA’s labor provisions look like they’re workingThe Harvard Institute of Politics poll on young voters in 2024Jesse’s upshift; Rob’s downshift--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Antenna Group helps you connect with customers, policymakers, investors, and strategic partners to influence markets and accelerate adoption. Visit antennagroup.com to learn more.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Two years ago this week, President Joe Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act, the largest investment in clean energy and climate mitigation in American history. It contained roughly two dozen new or expanded tax credits that will — if the forecasts bear out — provide hundreds of billions of dollars in funding over the next decade. The administration is now rushing to finalize those provisions before the November election. Perhaps no official has been more central to setting up those tax credits than Wally Adeyemo, the deputy secretary of the U.S. Treasury Department. He is also the Treasury’s No. 2 official and chief operating officer. Adeyemo has led the agency’s effort to implement the climate law, overseeing a group of tax lawyers and political appointees who are critical to the legislation’s ultimate success. He joins Shift Key this week to help us kick off our second season and talk about how the effort to implement the climate law is going, what could stand in its way, and why he wants some kind of permitting reform.Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned: The First IRA Tax Credit Data Is InSenator Manchin and Senator Barrasso’s permitting reform proposalWhy Energy Wonks Love the Permitting DealThe Inflation Reduction Act: A SummaryJesse’s upshift, Rob’s shift.--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Antenna Group helps you connect with customers, policymakers, investors, and strategic partners to influence markets and accelerate adoption. Visit antennagroup.com to learn more.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The world uses about 30 billion tons of concrete every year — more than any other material except water. It is the most ubiquitous human-made substance in the global economy. It’s also a huge climate problem. Producing cement, which is the key ingredient in concrete, generates roughly 8% of global annual greenhouse gas emissions.Cody Finke has a plan to change that. He is the chief executive officer and cofounder of Brimstone, a startup that says it can cheaply produce ordinary Portland cement — the kind used in construction worldwide — without carbon emissions. This week, Rob chats with Finke about why cement’s carbon emissions aren’t from fossil fuels, why there are fewer cement plants than you might think, and the all-important difference between cement and concrete. This episode of Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap. Jesse Jenkins is on vacation. Mentioned: BrimstoneThere Will Soon Be More Concrete Than Biomass on EarthProjecting future carbon emissions from cement production in developing countries--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Shipping is the backbone of the modern economy. At least 80% of all goods worldwide are shipped as ocean cargo, and the global economy rises and falls on the free movement of gigantic ships across the sea. But container ships and bulk carriers burn what’s known as bunker fuel, one of the dirtiest fossil fuels. The international shipping industry generates 3% of global carbon emissions, a proportion that’s projected to rise through the century. Most proposals to decarbonize ocean freight have focused on using ammonia or other zero-carbon liquid fuels. But Fleetzero, a Bill Gates-backed startup, is trying to use the only technology that it says can get cheap enough to compete with oil: batteries. The Alabama-based company is building batteries big enough to hybridize — and, eventually, power outright — the world’s largest ships.  This week, Rob chats with Steven Henderson, the cofounder and CEO of Fleetzero and a graduate of the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy. They talk about Steven’s history in the oil and gas industry, why batteries will beat liquid fuels, and how to put out a fire in the middle of the ocean. This episode of Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap. Jesse Jenkins is on vacation.Mentioned:FleetzeroThe Emma Maersk, the world’s largest ship at the time of its construction in 2006The legal and regulatory background on the Jones Act--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jesse is on vacation until August, so this is a special, Rob-only summer episode of Shift Key.Over the past few weeks, the U.S. Supreme Court has profoundly changed how the federal government does its day-to-day work. In a series of landmark rulings, the high court sharply curtailed the ability of government agencies — including the Environmental Protection Agency — to write and enforce rules and regulations.That will change how the federal government oversees the products we buy, the air we breathe, and the water we drink. But it could also alter how the government regulates heat-trapping greenhouse gas pollution.But how, exactly, will these new rulings affect climate law? And is there an upside to the deregulatory revolution? This week, Rob holds a roundtable with two environmental law experts about what the high court’s rulings mean for America’s decarbonization project — and whether the court just inadvertently made the country’s already burdensome permitting process even worse. They are Jody Freeman, a Harvard law professor and former Obama administration lawyer, and Nicholas Bagley, a University of Michigan law professor.This episode of Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap.Mentioned: This year’s four big decisions: Loper Bright, Corner Post, Jarkesy, Ohio v. EPAThe Supreme Court Is Slowly Breaking the EPAHow the Supreme Court Just Changed Climate Law, According to 9 LawyersThe Big Winners of This Supreme Court Term, by Nicholas Bagley Other important cases to know: • Massachusetts v. EPA established that the agency could regulate greenhouse gas pollution• West Virginia v. EPA codified “the major questions doctrine”--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jesse is on vacation until August, so this is a special, Rob-only summer episode of Shift Key.—The far right is rising across Europe. The global order seems to be deteriorating. And American politics is careening toward a crisis. Where does climate policy go from here? On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob chats with two leaders at Breakthrough Energy, the Bill Gates-funded climate venture capital and advocacy group. They are Ann Mettler, a former EU official who is now Breakthrough’s vice president for Europe, and Aliya Haq, its vice president for U.S. policy and advocacy. We talk about why Europe was surprised by the Inflation Reduction Act, where American policy goes from here, and how to prepare climate policy for an era of rising geopolitical tensions and security concerns. This episode of Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap. Mentioned:More on the Breakthrough Energy SummitMacron’s frustration with the IRAEurope’s Green DealHow anxiety over China is reshaping the global economic orderThe latest statement from the EU-U.S. Trade and Technology Council--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Congress just passed perhaps its  biggest support for zero-carbon energy since the Inflation Reduction Act. The ADVANCE Act, which the Senate adopted overwhelmingly last week, aims to keep America at the cutting edge of the global nuclear industry by cutting regulatory fees, making it easier for U.S. companies to build nuclear power plants abroad, and reforming the agency that oversees it all, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk with Ryan Norman, a senior policy advisor at Third Way’s climate and energy program, about how America got here. We talk about why nuclear is such a bipartisan issue, what the ADVANCE Act will actually do, and how soon new nuclear power plants could actually get built. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned: Nuclear Energy Is the One Thing Congress Can Agree OnEveryone Wants Nuclear Now, But Will Anyone Pay For It?A summary of the ADVANCE Act from the law firm Hogan Lovells  Third Way’s update on the state of the nuclear industryHow the Inflation Reduction Act supports nuclear energyRob’s downshift; Jesse’s downshift--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

China’s electric vehicle industry has driven itself to the center of the global conversation. Its automakers produce dozens of affordable, technologically advanced electric vehicles that rival — and often beat — anything coming out of Europe or North America. The United States and the European Union have each levied tariffs on its car exports in the past few months, hoping to avoid a “China shock” to their domestic car industries. Ilaria Mazzocco has watched China’s EV industry grow from a small regional experiment into a planet-reshaping juggernaut. She is now a senior fellow with the Trustee Chair in Chinese Business and Economics at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C.On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk with Ilaria about how the industry got so big, what it means for the world, and how to think about its environmental and national security impacts. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned:Why Ford and GM are scared of Chinese electric carsPresident Biden’s announcement of new tariffs on Chinese EVs.The EU’s lower tariffs on Chinese EVsTrouble for Gotion's Michigan plantRob on the Biden administration’s China thoughtRob’s upshift; Jesse’s upshift. --This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Have you looked at your power bill — like, really looked at it? If you’re anything like Rob, you pay whatever number appears at the bottom every month and drop it in the recycling. But how everyone’s power bill is calculated — in wonk terms, the “electricity rate design” — turns out to be surprisingly important and could be a big driver of decarbonization.On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk about why power bills matter, how Jesse would design electricity rates if he was king of the world, and how to fix rooftop solar in America. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned:Shift Key’s rooftop solar series, featuring Mary Powell, Severin Borenstein, and Heatmap’s own Emily PontecorvoJesse’s distributed energy research at MITAustralia’s Solar Choice Price IndexMore on Texas’ Griddy debacleLeah Stokes et al. on utilities’ climate recordRob’s upshift; Jesse’s upshift--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rooftop solar is four times more expensive in America than it is in other countries. It’s also good for the climate. Should we even care about its high cost? Yes, says Severin Borenstein, an economist and the director of the Energy Policy Institute at the University of California, Berkeley’s Haas School of Business. In a recent blog post, he argued that the high cost of rooftop solar will shift nearly $4 billion onto the bills of low- and middle-income Californians who don’t have rooftop solar. Similar forces could soon spread the cost-shift problem across the country. On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk with Borenstein about who pays for rooftop solar, why power bills are going up everywhere, and about whether the government should take over electric utilities. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned:California’s Exploding Rooftop Solar Cost ShiftWhat rooftop solar costs customers without it, from the California Public Advocates OfficeBorenstein on California’s new income-graduated fixed electricity chargeBorenstein on what constitutes a fair electricity billJesse’s upshift; Rob’s downshift.--This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Watershed’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, Sungrow invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting sungrowpower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Why isn’t rooftop solar cheaper in America? In Australia in 2024, a standard rooftop system can cost as little as $0.90 per watt. In the U.S., a similar system might go for $4 per watt. If America could come even close to Australia’s rooftop solar prices, then we would be able to decarbonize the power system much faster than we are now.Mary Powell has the answers. She is the chief executive officer of Sunrun, a $2.6 billion company that is the largest rooftop solar and battery installer in the U.S. Sunrun has set up or managed more than 900,000 rooftop systems across the U.S. Powell previously led Green Mountain Power, Vermont’s largest investor-owned power company.On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk about how the rooftop solar business works and what’s driving America’s higher costs. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Previously on Shift Key: Does Rooftop Solar Actually Help the Climate?Mentioned:What solar panels cost in AustraliaThe Department of Energy’s quarterly solar updateIntroduction to solar soft costs–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Watershed's climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.FischTank PR uses its decade-plus experience working in the climate tech space to introduce clients to top-tier journalists at the right time, for the right story. We don’t tire-spin — we take action and understand we are hired to get results. To learn more, visit fischtankpr.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Transmission has been one of the biggest obstacles of decarbonizing the power grid in America. In the past week, however, the country has taken two big steps toward finally removing it.Last week, the Department of Energy published a list of 10 high-priority areas for grid development, called National Interest Electric Transmission Corridors, designed to help accelerate some of the most annoying aspects of the siting process. Then on Monday, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission passed a new rule directing grid planners to take a longer view on what America’s future electricity needs will look like.On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk with two special guests — Maria Robinson, who leads the Energy Department’s Grid Deployment Office, and Heatmap reporter Matthew Zeitlin — about what these measures mean for the Biden administration’s climate policy and how soon we might see new power lines get built. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned:​​America’s Power Line Problems Just Got a FERC FixRob on the headache that is permitting reformJesse on what it will actually take to electrify everythingFERC’s lone Republican talks with HeatmapThe NIETC mapJesse’s version of the NIETC mapJesse's downshift; Rob’s upshift–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Watershed's climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.FischTank PR uses its decade-plus experience working in the climate tech space to introduce clients to top-tier journalists at the right time, for the right story. We don’t tire-spin — we take action and understand we are hired to get results. To learn more, visit fischtankpr.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Tesla is now facing its worst crisis in years. Last week, CEO Elon Musk laid off the automaker’s roughly 500-person Supercharger team and what remained of its policy and new vehicle teams. Before that, it reported its first-quarter financial results — and they were even worse than the lackluster performance that investors were expecting. Already this year, Tesla has cut around 10% of its employees. Now Musk is promising that it will shift toward becoming an “AI” company. Does Tesla, long a stalwart of America’s EV transition, now pose a danger to it? On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse discuss the automaker’s turn away from EVs, and why Musk’s decision to lay off the Supercharger team could throw the entire country’s EV transition off track. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned:Previously on Shift Key: The U.S. Has a Tesla ProblemTesla’s Identity Crisis Gets HardcoreTesla’s Q1 2024 investor reportBloombergNEF on Superchargers’ profit potentialRob on how to make sense of Elon Musk’s wacky moves–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Watershed's climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

One of the most important pieces of the Biden administration’s climate policy has arrived: On Thursday, the Environmental Protection Agency issued new rules restricting climate pollution from coal-fired plants and  natural gas plants that haven’t been built yet. The rules will eliminate more than a billion tons of greenhouse gas pollution by the middle of the century.They are the long-awaited “stick” in the Biden administration’s carrots-and-sticks climate policy. So how do the rules work? Why do they emphasize carbon capture so much? And is this the end of coal in America? On this special episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse dig into the regulations and why they matter to American climate policy. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer is founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins is a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.Mentioned:The New EPA Power Plant Rules Are Out — and Could Change the Calculus for GasThe White House Also Has Some Transmission NewsThe EPA’s announcement of the new rulesMassachusetts v EPA (2005)West Virginia v EPA (2022)–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Watershed's climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jigar Shah might have more control over America’s new wave of industrial policy — not to mention its climate policy — than anyone not named Joe Biden. And he’s not even a Cabinet-level official. As director of the Department of Energy’s Loan Programs Office, which is akin to its in-house bank, Shah oversees how roughly $400 billion in lending authority will be spent. That money will help finance new EV factories, geothermal wells, carbon capture sites, and more.On this week’s episode, Rob sits down with Shah to discuss the philosophy that he brings to his role. When financing new projects — many of which are the first of their kind — how does he think about cash flow, about technological innovation, about risk? Robinson Meyer is executive editor of Heatmap News; Jesse Jenkins, an energy systems engineering professor at Princeton, is off this week. Mentioned: The Loan Programs Office: Building a Bridge to BankabilityThe Race to Spend the I.R.A.’s $100 Billion in Grants Has BegunEzra Klein’s theory of “everything-bagel liberalism”Rob on the questions swirling at one-time LPO beneficiary Tesla–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Watershed's climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It isn’t just bad vibes: Electric vehicle sales are slumping in the United States. Fewer than 300,000 EVs were sold nationwide during the first three months of 2024 — although it could be more than 350,000, depending on how you count and whose data you trust. That’s a slight decline from last quarter at a time when EV sales need to be accelerating.What caused the slump, and what can be done about it? And could hybrids or plug-in hybrids help solve the problem? In this week’s episode, Rob and Jesse chat with Corey Cantor, an EV analyst at Bloomberg NEF. They talk about Tesla’s spiraling problems, whether Detroit can pull its EV strategy together, and whether plug-in hybrids can co-exist with a climate strategy. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a Princeton professor of energy systems engineering.Mentioned: BloombergNEF’s EV market outlook for Q1 2024Jesse’s 2023 story on the EV market’s bad vibesRob’s story on Tesla’s slumping Q1 salesRob asks: Is Tesla Even a Car Company, Anymore?Tesla Has Built a Charging Business to Be Taken SeriouslyReuters’ report on the Model 2’s cancellation–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Watershed's climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Can capitalism solve climate change? Wrong question, argues the author and journalist Akshat Rathi: In fact, you can’t solve climate change without capitalism. Look around the world, as Rathi does in his new book Climate Capitalism, and he says you’ll find companies and leaders who are proving that cutting carbon emissions is not just possible, but also profitable. The venture capitalist Sophie Purdom, the founder of Planeteer Capital, spends her days looking for those profitable climate companies. She says that a newer, smarter generation of climate startups is on the way.In this week’s episode, recorded earlier this month live at Princeton University, Rob and Jesse host a special in-person conversation with Rathi and Purdom. They talk about the rise of Chinese EVs, what interest rates mean for the energy transition, and the proper role of policy in decarbonizing. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a Princeton professor of energy systems engineering.Mentioned: Akshat Rathi’s Climate CapitalismSightline ClimateMartin Wolf’s The Crisis of Democratic Capitalism–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Watershed's climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Will the rise of machine learning and artificial intelligence break the climate system? In recent months, utilities and tech companies have argued that soaring use of AI will overwhelm electricity markets. Is that true — or is it a sales pitch meant to build more gas plants? And how much electricity do data centers and AI use today?In this week’s episode, Rob and Jesse talk to Jonathan Koomey, an independent researcher, lecturer, and entrepreneur who studies the energy impacts of the internet and information technology. We discuss why AI may not break the electricity system and the long history of anxiety over computing’s energy use. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a Princeton professor of energy systems engineering.Mentioned: Koomey’s paper on worldwide electricity use in data centers.Smart Everything: Will Intelligent Systems Reduce Resource Use?A 2017 estimate of the electricity intensity of internet data transmission.Meeting Growing Electricity Demand Without GasRMI report on previous forecasts of electricity demand.–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Watershed's climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at watershed.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Radia is a $1 billion climate tech startup with an unusual pitch: It is trying to build the world’s largest airplane. Its proposed aircraft, the Radia Wind Runner, would be as long as a football field, nearly as wide as a New York city block, and capable of carrying 12 times the volume of a Boeing 747. Such a plane could ferry massive wind-turbine blades, unlocking what the company calls “gigawind” — the ability to build offshore-sized wind farms on land. In this week’s episode, Rob and Jesse talk to Radia’s chief executive officer, Mark Lundstrom. (Jesse’s consulting firm did some research for Radia while it was in stealth mode, in 2020 and 2023.) We discuss why the world needs a bigger plane, how such a new aircraft gets licensed, and why massive wind turbines could be such a big deal for renewable electricity. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a Princeton professor of energy systems engineering.Mentioned: The Wall Street Journal: How the World’s Biggest Plane Would Supersize Wind EnergyThe National Renewable Energy Laboratory’s report on why big turbines could unlock more wind energyHow big are offshore wind turbines? Really big.Jesse’s downshift, Jesse’s upshift.Rob’s downshift, Rob’s upshift. –This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Advanced Energy United educates, engages, and advocates for policies that allow our member companies to compete to power our economy with 100% clean energy, working with decision makers and energy market regulators to achieve this goal. Together, we are united in our mission to accelerate the transition to 100% clean energy in America. Learn more at advancedenergyunited.org/heatmap KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Earlier this month, the electric-car maker Rivian announced its new SUV, the R2 — a $45,000 family hauler that will get more than 300 miles in range. It also debuted the R3 and R3X hatchbacks, which entranced online car nerds. These new Rivian models are sleek and important, but they won’t go on sale until 2026 at the earliest. Can Rivian last that long? In this week’s episode, Rob and Jesse discuss Rivian’s quest to survive, how electrification is changing car design, and the coolest EVs coming down the pike. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a Princeton professor of energy systems engineering.Mentioned:Look Closely at Rivian’s New SUV. You’ll See a Survival Strategy.Why 2024 Is a Make or Break Year for RivianRivian R2, R3, R3XHonda Crosstour1991 Toyota PreviaWhy Do Animals Keep Evolving into Crabs?Watch a Hyundai Ioniq 5N Lap the NürburgringDodge Charger Will Live on as an EV Jesse’s downshift, Rob’s downshift.Rob’s upshift, Jesse’s upshift.–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Advanced Energy United educates, engages, and advocates for policies that allow our member companies to compete to power our economy with 100% clean energy, working with decision makers and energy market regulators to achieve this goal. Together, we are united in our mission to accelerate the transition to 100% clean energy in America. Learn more at advancedenergyunited.org/heatmap KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Few people have shaped Bidenomics more than Brian Deese. From 2021 to 2023, Deese led the National Economic Council at the White House, serving as President Joe Biden’s top economic aide. He’s now an Innovation Fellow at MIT, where he helps lead the new Clean Investment Monitor project.In part two of Shift Key’s conversation with Deese, we discuss electric vehicles, the future of U.S.-China trade relations, and whether the Big Three automakers can survive. Shift Key is hosted by Heatmap Executive Editor Robinson Meyer and Princeton Professor Jesse Jenkins.Mentioned: The Clean Investment MonitorWhy Ford and GM Are Scared of China’s Electric CarsChina’s Electric Vehicles Are Going to Hit Detroit Like a Wrecking BallTrade Wars Are Class Wars, by Matthew C. Klein and Michael Pettis–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Advanced Energy United educates, engages, and advocates for policies that allow our member companies to compete to power our economy with 100% clean energy, working with decision makers and energy market regulators to achieve this goal. Together, we are united in our mission to accelerate the transition to 100% clean energy in America. Learn more at advancedenergyunited.org/heatmap KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Few people have shaped Bidenomics more than Brian Deese. From 2021 to 2023, Deese led the National Economic Council at the White House, serving as President Joe Biden’s top economic aide during such events as the post-pandemic recovery, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and the passage of the Inflation Reduction Act. Before that, Deese was global head of sustainable investing for Blackrock and a senior political advisor to President Barack Obama. He’s now the Institute Innovation Fellow at MIT, where he helps lead the Clean Investment Monitor, a project that tracks investment in climate technology and infrastructure across the U.S. economy.On this episode, Deese joins Shift Key for a two-part conversation. Part 1 focuses on the future of Bidenomics, Biden’s State of the Union speech, what the 2024 campaign might mean for the politics and policy of climate change. Shift Key is hosted by Heatmap Executive Editor Robinson Meyer and Princeton Professor Jesse Jenkins.Mentioned: The full text of Biden’s 2024 State of the Union speech.Why Biden Talked Up the IRA Without Saying Its Name–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Advanced Energy United educates, engages, and advocates for policies that allow our member companies to compete to power our economy with 100% clean energy, working with decision makers and energy market regulators to achieve this goal. Together, we are united in our mission to accelerate the transition to 100% clean energy in America. Learn more at advancedenergyunited.org/heatmap KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For a few weeks now, Heatmap’s staff writer, Emily Pontecorvo, has been trying to figure out if installing rooftop solar panels on your home actually reduces carbon pollution in a systematic way. In other words: If you own a home, and install solar panels on it, are you doing anything to change how much fossil fuel gets burned in your region or around the world? Or — somewhat counterintuitively — will your panels just increase the cost of electricity near you while shifting demand for those fossil fuels around? On this week’s episode, we try to answer these questions in a satisfying way. Heatmap Executive Editor Robinson Meyer and Princeton Professor Jesse Jenkins welcome Emily to the podcast to discuss the messy truth of distributed solar power. Mentioned: An NREL report on the cost of rooftop vs utility-scale solar in the USA. The most recent Energy Department report on the solar industry.Seel, Barbonse & Wiser (2014), "An analysis of residential PV system price differences between the United States and Germany"Jesse’s upshift; Jesse’s downshift.Emily’s upshift; Emily’s downshift.–This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Advanced Energy United educates, engages, and advocates for policies that allow our member companies to compete to power our economy with 100% clean energy, working with decision makers and energy market regulators to achieve this goal. Together, we are united in our mission to accelerate the transition to 100% clean energy in America. Learn more at advancedenergyunited.org/heatmap KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When we talk about carbon removal, we often focus on “direct air capture” facilities — big factories that suck carbon dioxide out of the ambient air.  But a simpler and easier way to remove carbon from the atmosphere may exist. It’s called “enhanced rock weathering” — grinding up rocks, spreading them out, and exposing them to the ambient air — and it works, essentially, by speeding up the Earth’s carbon cycle. Enhanced rock weathering recently got a major vote of confidence from Frontier, a consortium of tech and finance companies who have teamed up to support new and experimental carbon removal technologies. In this episode, we speak with Jane Flegal, a former Biden White House climate adviser and now the market development and policy lead at Frontier, about the promise of enhanced rock weathering and why Frontier just spent $57 million to do it.Mentioned: Why Big Tech is pouring $925 million into carbon removal.More about Frontier’s commitment to Lithos.Enhanced weathering in the US Corn Belt delivers carbon removal with agronomic benefits.Rob’s downshift, Rob’s upshift.Jesse’s downshift, Jesse’s upshift. –This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Advanced Energy United educates, engages, and advocates for policies that allow our member companies to compete to power our economy with 100% clean energy, working with decision makers and energy market regulators to achieve this goal. Together, we are united in our mission to accelerate the transition to 100% clean energy in America. Learn more at advancedenergyunited.org/heatmap KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Build your skills in policy, finance, and clean technology at Yale. Yale’s Financing and Deploying Clean Energy certificate program is a 10-month online certificate program that trains and connects clean energy professionals to catalyze an equitable transition to a clean economy. Connect with Yale’s expertise, grow your professional network, and deepen your impact. Learn more at cbey.yale.edu/certificate.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A year and a half ago, President Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act, the biggest climate law in American history — and arguably in world history. But is it actually working? A new report from a coalition of major energy analysts — including our cohost Jesse Jenkins’ lab at Princeton — looks at data from the power and transportation sectors and concludes that yes, the law is starting to decarbonize the American economy. But it isn’t working in the way many people might expect. Robinson Meyer, the executive editor of Heatmap News, and Jesse Jenkins, an energy systems expert and professor at Princeton University, talk about how and why.Mentioned: The new report: Clean Investment in 2023: Assessing Progress in Electricity and TransportJesse’s story on the EV bad vibes.American carbon emissions fell last year for the first time since the pandemic. Jesse’s downshift, Jesse’s upshift.Rob’s upshift, Rob’s downshift. –This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Advanced Energy United educates, engages, and advocates for policies that allow our member companies to compete to power our economy with 100% clean energy, working with decision makers and energy market regulators to achieve this goal. Together, we are united in our mission to accelerate the transition to 100% clean energy in America. Learn more at advancedenergyunited.org/heatmap KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Build your skills in policy, finance, and clean technology at Yale. Yale’s Financing and Deploying Clean Energy certificate program is a 10-month online certificate program that trains and connects clean energy professionals to catalyze an equitable transition to a clean economy. Connect with Yale’s expertise, grow your professional network, and deepen your impact. Learn more at cbey.yale.edu/certificate.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It has been a catastrophic 12 months for offshore wind in the U.S. Large projects have been canceled, and Orsted, the world’s biggest offshore wind developer, has laid off hundreds of employees. Is the industry dying? Maybe it’s actually about to turn a corner. In this episode, Robinson Meyer, the executive editor of Heatmap News, and Jesse Jenkins, an energy systems expert and professor at Princeton University, discuss the future of the sector.Mentioned: Orsted’s troubles: FT A wind farm powers up: Heatmap. New offshore contracts and auctions: NYTimes & ReutersGlobal Wind AtlasLease areas in the U.S.Jesse’s downshift, Rob’s downshift. Rob’s upshift, Jesse’s upshift. –This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by…Advanced Energy United educates, engages, and advocates for policies that allow our member companies to compete to power our economy with 100% clean energy, working with decision makers and energy market regulators to achieve this goal. Together, we are united in our mission to accelerate the transition to 100% clean energy in America. Learn more at advancedenergyunited.org/heatmap KORE Power provides the commercial, industrial, and utility markets with functional solutions that advance the clean energy transition worldwide. KORE Power's technology and manufacturing capabilities provide direct access to next generation battery cells, energy storage systems that scale to grid+, EV power & infrastructure, and intuitive asset management to unlock energy strategies across a myriad of applications. Explore more at korepower.com.Build your skills in policy, finance, and clean technology at Yale. Yale’s Financing and Deploying Clean Energy certificate program is a 10-month online certificate program that trains and connects clean energy professionals to catalyze an equitable transition to a clean economy. Connect with Yale’s expertise, grow your professional network, and deepen your impact. Learn more at cbey.yale.edu/certificate.Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Last month, President Biden announced the federal government would temporarily stop approving new export terminals for liquified natural gas. The move was hailed as a victory by climate activists and lamented by fossil-fuel companies. But what will the pause mean for the climate — really? Will it stop exports from rising in the near-term, and can we say with any certainty whether it will make carbon emissions go up or down? In this inaugural episode of Shift Key, Robinson Meyer, the executive editor of Heatmap News, and Jesse Jenkins, an energy systems expert and professor at Princeton University, unpack the president’s decision and try to figure out what — if anything — it means for the climate. Mentioned:Research by Shuting Yang, et al.Robert Howarth’s unpublished paper on natural gas’s effect on the climateBill McKibben’s reaction to news of the pauseThe People on the Front Lines of the LNG Fight, by Jeva LangeThe Biden administration’s fact sheet on the approval pauseJesse’s upshift, Jesse’s downshift. Rob’s upshift, Rob’s downshift. —-This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by KORE Power and Advanced Energy United…KORE Power provides functional solutions that push the front line of the transition to clean energy and form the backbone of the decarbonized future worldwide. KORE Power’s manufacturing capabilities and robust portfolio of products provide the commercial, industrial, utility and defense markets with next-generation battery cells, advanced energy storage systems that scale to grid+, intuitive asset management, and EV power and charging infrastructure support. Learn more at Korepower.comAdvanced Energy United educates, engages, and advocates for policies that allow our member companies to compete to power our economy with 100% clean energy. We work with decision makers at every level of government as well as regulators of energy markets to achieve this goal. The businesses we represent are lowering consumer costs, creating thousands of new jobs every year, and providing the full range of clean, efficient, and reliable energy and transportation solutions. Learn more at info.advancedenergyunited.org/heatmapMusic for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Every week, Heatmap News Executive Editor Robinson Meyer and Princeton University Professor and energy systems expert Jesse Jenkins, make sense of the biggest shift of our time -- navigating the energy transition away from fossil fuels. Drawing on their years of experience reporting on and researching climate change and decarbonization, Meyer and Jenkins unpack the most important issues of the week and how the impacts of climate change and efforts to address it are transforming our economy, politics, and society at large. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.