Revitalize and Replant

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some difficult situations that pastors may need to shepherd through in their churches. How do you shepherd an unmarried couple who have been attending your church, but have been dishonest about their living situation? A couple asks you to perform their marriage ceremony. They claim to be believers but are not actively involved in any church. How do you shepherd church members who are unwise in their social media usage? How do you shepherd a leader whose marriage is clearly not in a good spot, but they are unwilling to talk about it? Issues surrounding alcohol usage.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst talk about some ways to effectively connect with first-time visitors.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Sam Rainer on some simple metrics to determine if your church is truly revitalized. Children and students comprise 25% or more of average worship attendance. Conversion ratio reaches 20:1 or better. Giving consistently exceeds expenses. Deferred maintenance is minimized. The number of people in groups is 80% or more of average worship attendance. Resources Related to this Episode: “How to Know Your Church is Revitalized (5 Key Indicators)” by Sam Rainer

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst welcome D.J. Horton, President of the 2025 SBC Pastor’s Conference, to the show! D.J. talks about his heart for bivocational pastors, church revitalization, and some things surrounding the 2025 SBC Pastor’s Conference in Dallas this June. D.J.’s journey in ministry to this point, including his 20+ years at Church at the Mill. D.J.’s life as the son of a bivocational pastor and his experience in smaller membership churches. The heart behind the 2025 SBC Pastor’s Conference Why pastors of smaller churches should make it to the Pastor’s Conference and SBC Annual Meeting in Dallas in June.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Barnabas Piper about what to do when your children resist and even resent your ministry in the church. Remember your family is your primary ministry. Remember you are called to lead your family. Acknowledge that ministry is hard on kids and costly to families. Consider the stage your kids are in and the cost of ministry for them. Take your kids’ challenges to your fellow leaders for prayer and care Consider your home and family dynamics Consider your church’s relational and cultural dynamics Find outlets for relief Consider stepping away from ministry. Resources Related to this Episode: “Help! My Kids Aren’t on Board with Ministry” by Barnabas Piper

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Lifeway about some difficult people you will encounter in church and ministry life. The Dominator The Dodger The Debater The Drainer Resources Related to this Episode: 4 Difficult People You’ll Encounter in Ministry – and How to Handle Them by Christ Surratt

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how pastors should prepare and preach the invitation. Every sermon needs to lead to an intentional ask, call, or response. Never assume the hearer knows what to do. In fact, assume their next move needs to be directed by clearly articulated direction. Spend time in your preparation: Identifying what response should be made after the message. Craft thoughtful expressions of calling for salvation, service, or obedience. Decide whether there should be application following each point, or one invitational call at the end of the meeting. Make sure you plan to leave significant time and energy for your invitation and never let it be an afterthought.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how the word “revitalization” can sometimes be uncomfortable, and why the word “renew” may better communicate what we mean. Become a praying church. Understand the church’s mission. Focus on what God can do. The Word is the Word to follow. Serve God with glory. Resources Related to this Episode: 5 Steps to Local Church Renewal by Desmond Barrett

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how some things for pastors to think through when it comes to their attire on Sunday mornings. Ask the question, “What does what I’m wearing communicate?” You don’t want your clothes to distract. Wear clothes that are culturally appropriate, but plain. “Be prayerful and honest with yourself about this. Sure, not everyone will agree with where you fall on this issue, but I would encourage two things: 1) make sure your conscience is clear before the Lord in this and 2) always err on the side of plain and unimpressive.” – Mark Hallock Resources Related to this Episode: What Should a Pastor Wear by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst talk about some ways to pray for children who have strayed from the faith. Pray for a heart of brokenness, no matter the earthly cost. Pray against the enemy’s desire to have them. Pray specific Scripture over their life. Resources Related to this Episode: Pray Them Home by Sarah Walton

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some types of sermons that just don’t hit the mark. The “I want to show you how creative and clever I am” sermon. The “I want to be real and authentic and vulnerable at all costs” sermon. The “I am passionate about biblical and systematic theology, and you should be too” sermon. The “I love to make the Bible practical for all people without explaining to them what it means” sermon. The “I want you to live the purposeful, prosperous, victorious life you deserve” sermon. Resources Related to this Episode: 5 Types of Sermons That Fall Short by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst talk about the danger of gossip and slander in the life of a church. Here are good questions to evaluate whether the things you are hearing are information you need to know as a pastor or if it’s entering into the realm of gossip: Does this information involve me or affect me directly? What is the motive of the person who passed this information on to me? What is going on in my heart? Resources Related to this Episode: Fighting the “Respectable” Sins of Gossip and Slander by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst talk about some things pastors should know about the kids in their church. Know their names and basic info. Know what they enjoy. Know where they are spiritually. Resources Related to this Episode: 3 Things Pastors Should Know About Every Kid in Your Church by Mark Hallock Shepherding a Child’s Heart by Ted Tripp How does a Pastor Respond to: “When Is My Child Ready for Baptism?” by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst discuss what to do when you have a church of primarily older adults. Don’t use a cheesy name for senior adult ministries. Don’t underestimate the value of senior adults. Find ways to connect your older adults with younger folks in the church. Find some way for an older church to be involved in children’s ministry. Use people to read Scripture publicly in your worship service. Use prayer warriors to lead your people to pray.

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst discuss some reasons pastors get depressed and why they often don’t talk about it. Spiritual warfare The surprising reality of pastoral leadership. Sense of inadequacy Critics and bullies Loneliness Resources Related to this Episode: 5 Reasons Pastors Get Depressed (And Why Tey Don’t Talk About It) by Thom Rainer

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst discuss some of the dangers of focusing on church growth as the only metric you look at. Love the church you have. Love your community ministry footprint. Change the scorecard.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss how to handle church facilities that are too large for the current congregation. Reconfigure your worship center to be an appropriate size for your congregation. Use your building as an incubator for church plants. Share your building with the community. Share your building with appropriate non-profits. Find ways to use your building to bless the community.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some mistakes that Mark C. made when he was leading Wornall Road Baptist Church. I didn’t know the context. I brought the wrong toolkit. I wasn’t spiritually prepared. I loved the church I wanted, not the church I had. Initially, I saw the community as a prospect to grow my church, rather than loving the community.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock talk about how you can protect your family from the uglier sides of church revitalization and replanting. Do not undersell the pain of revitalization to your family. Make sure your wife has some friendships outside the church that can strengthen her spiritually. Find places for your kids to grow spiritually, even if it means they’re involved in another church’s children’s or youth ministries. As a family, find another local church that has weeknight home/life groups.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some important aspects of effective church business meetings. Stick with Robert’s Rules of Order. Be optimistic about the tone of the meeting. Find ways to build consensus, particularly on contention issues, beforehand. Have tactical patience when it comes to divisive issues. Begin the meeting with worship and prayer. Spend some time with the matriarchs and patriarchs of your church to get the history of business meetings in your church.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some ways that your church can come alongside other churches. Form a prayer partnership between your congregation and another congregation. Proactively find a church plant or ethnic congregation and invite them to use your building. Do a special event of some kind (worship night, community outreach, retreat, etc.) with one or more churches in your community. Send 3 or 4 families from your church to intentionally serve and help strengthen a declining congregation in your community for 6-12 months. Take the lead as a congregation in coming alongside a dying church and replanting it as a new congregation with fresh hope and vision. Resources Related to this Episode: Save the Date for the 2025 Replant Summit! – August 25-26 in Alpharetta, GA

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some things they would tell their younger selves about what it means to be a dad. Be intentional about discipling your children. Live out your love for Jesus in a genuine way in front of your kids. Be cautious about how you talk about the church in front of your kids. Laugh a lot with your kids. If your kids see you quarrel with your spouse, make sure they see you make up too.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some things they would tell their younger selves about what it means to be a husband. You must learn to be a better listener. Don’t try to fix everything but just be a soft place to land. Learn to love what your wife loves. Be present. Find ways to love her family.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some things they would tell their younger selves about what it means to be a pastor. Quit trying to worry about numerical results Focus on the gospel and realize that my worth is found in Jesus Christ and what He has accomplished on the cross. Listen more and talk less. Cherish the small things and the small victories. Only eternity will reveal the results of your labor.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how to prepare for new folks who may come to your church in the new year. Why do folks not come to church? We minimize the importance of the local church. We worship the idol of activities. We take a lot of vacations from church. We do not have high expectations of our members. We make infrequent attendees leaders in our churches. Resources Related to this Episode: Five Reasons Church Members Attend Less Frequently by Thom Rainer

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how to reflect on the last year, and to look forward to the new year. Good questions to ask: What’s going right? What’s going wrong? What’s missing? What’s confusing?

On this episode, Dan Hurst welcomes Jim Elliff, founder and president of Christian Communicators Worldwide (CCW) to discuss how pastors can make pastoral visits more effective. The value of systematic pastoral visits. Some key questions to ask in pastoral visits. Resources Related to this Episode: Christian Communicators Worldwide Spiritual Inventory for Pastoral Visits

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Jim Elliff about how to lead difficult church members. Invite them to your home. Try to find out what drives them. Within reason, give them some servant responsibility. Confront them if they continue to cause problems in the church. Resources Related to this Episode: Leading Even the Cantankerous by Jim Elliff

Merry Christmas from the Revitalize and Replant gang! Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss Christmas Eve services and follow-up. We pray that you and your family have a blessed Christmas!

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Chris Crain about some causes of church conflict. Pride Spiritual and Emotional Immaturity Change and Inflexibility Abuses of Power Church Politics Unclear Authority Personality Differences Resources Related to this Episode: Seven Causes of Church Conflict by Chris Crain

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst share some awkward situations that they’ve encountered (or created) through the years. When you face awkward situations or personalities, as the leader you must keep it cool. Recognize that everyone is awkward. Get comfortable with “Leaning into the awkward.” The importance of emotional intelligence in leaders. There is a difference in awkward behavior and sinful behavior. Leaders cannot show favoritism with church members. The importance of understanding your own awkwardness as a leader.

On this episode Dan Hurst welcomes Jim Eliff, founder and president of Christian Communicators Worldwide (CCW) to discuss how his house church network has designed their weekly meetings. What does a typical house church meeting look like? Where do these house churches meet? What are the biggest challenges for house churches? How does the house church network handle their finances and missions? How is church discipline handled in the house church network? Resources Related to this Episode: Christian Communicators Wordwide “Restoring Those Who Fall” – article on church discipline Church on the Couch: One Way Believers Work Out Church Life in Homes Christfellowshipkc.org

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst celebrate their 200th episode and discuss some reasons that pastors need other pastors as prayer partners. Many pastors have few prayer partners. Only another pastor really understands the burdens pastors carry. Pastors will answer to God for the spiritual care of the sheep they shepherd (Heb 13:17). Pastors need friends. Pastors face a real enemy who wants to destroy them. Pastors need a prayer partner who is also a trusted listening ear. Pastors sometimes struggle with hidden sin. Some pastors wrestle with prioritizing their families – and they need prayer support and accountability. Pastors never get done with their work. Most pastors don’t pray enough. Resources related to this episode: 10 Reasons Pastors Need Another Pastor as a Prayer Pastor by Chuck Lawless

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss what they’re reading and have some book recommendations. Mark Clifton’s Recommedations: The River of Doubt by Candice Millard Scripture-Guided Worship by Joe Crider The Ways of God by Richard Blackaby Mark Hallock’s Recommendations: The Devoted Mind by Kris Lungaard Spurgeon the Pastor by Geoff Chang Trusting God by Jerry Bridges Into His Presence: Praying with the Puritans by Tim Chesster The Care of Souls by Harold Senkbeil Pastors and Their Critics – Joel Beeke and Nicholas J. Thompson Joyful Perseverance: Staying Fresh throught the Ups and Downs of Ministry by Ajith Fernando Kyle Bueermann’s Recommendations: A Wondrous Mystery: Daily Advent Devotionals by C.H. Spurgeon (Edited by Geoffrey Chang) Uncommon Greatness by Mark Miller The Overlooked Americans: The Resilience of our Rural Towns and What It Means for Our Country by Elizabeth Curried-Halkett Dan Hurst’s Recommendations: Jesus the Revolutionary by H.S. Vigeveno The Christian World Liberation Front by Jeanne C. DeFazio

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Chuck Lawless about why churches get stuck. Church leaders are not raising up new leaders. The pastor may be feeling a tug toward some other opportunity. The church is comfortable where it is. The community is changing. The church operates in maintenance mode. The church doesn’t pray much together anymore. Resources Related to this Episode: 10 Reasons Why Churches Get Stuck, Stop Growing by Chuck Lawless

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Chuck Lawless about why churches get stuck. Nobody is paying much attention to the numbers. The church has outgrown the pastor’s leadership style. The church is out of space. The church’s small groups have hit their maximum. Resources Related to this Episode: 10 Reasons Why Churches Get Stuck, Stop Growing by Chuck Lawless

Mark and Dan welcome Jim Elliff, founder and president of Christian Communicators Worldwide (CCW) to discuss how the observance of the Lord’s Supper can be more meaningful in the life of your church. Why most of the instruction from Scripture about the Lord’s Supper is corrective. We don’t “take” the Lord’s Supper, we “eat” the Lord’s Supper. What it means to “examine yourself” before eating the meal. The meal is an “apostolic tradition,” which is a command to obey. “Eat a meal together” is just another way to express fellowship. Resources Related to this Episode: Free E-Book: The Lord’s Supper is a Meal by Jim Elliff https://www.ccwtoday.org/

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst take some time to talk about what they are thankful for. We pray you and your family have a very Happy Thanksgiving.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some reasons that pastors must be patient when it comes to making change. The best change takes place on the wings of persistent study and prayer. Many churches simply don’t recognize the need for change. Some changes require structural change – even a change in the church’s by-laws at times – and that process usually takes a while. Too much change in too little time can backfire. Sometimes those members who’ve been the most faithful over the years are the ones who most need convincing of the change. We’re often trying to change churches that have been in maintenance mode for a long time. Some members aren’t unwilling to change; they’re just tired of change in general. Resources related to this episode: 7 Reasons We Must Be Patient with Church Change by Chuck Lawless

Mark Clifton, Dan Hurst, and Kyle Bueermann answer some listener questions on this episode. Resources related to this episode: How can a solo pastor begin to identify and train leaders to help in the work of the ministry? How can you utilize parachurch ministries in the work of revitalizing your church? How can you prepare your church to minister to and disciple folks from messy backgrounds? Suggested Resources: Every Man a Warrior Reclaiming Glory by Mark Clifton

Mark Clifton, Dan Hurst, and Kyle Bueermann discuss some why it’s so painful when church leaders experience moral failure. We never expect church leaders to fall. We genuinely love our leaders. We watch a leader’s family suffer. We watch a church grieve. We know it’s not a good witness. A call can create a faith crisis for others. It makes us feel vulnerable. It feels like it will never end. Resources related to this episode: 8 Reasons the Fall of a Church Leader Hurts So Badly by Chuck Lawless

Mark and Dan welcome Jim Eliff, founder and president of Christian Communicators Worldwide (CCW) to discuss how the observance of the Lord’s Supper can be more meaningful in the life of your church. Why Jim says “The Lord’s Supper is a meal.” The word for “fellowship” in the Bible means a meal. Resources Related to this Episode: Free E-Book: The Lord’s Supper is a Meal by Jim Elliff https://www.ccwtoday.org/

Mark Clifton, Dan Hurst, and Kyle Bueermann discuss some reasons that visitors don’t come back to your church. An unfriendly stand-and-greet time in the worship service. Unfriendly church members. Unsafe and unclean children’s areas. No place to get information on the church. Bad church website. Poor signage Insider church language Boring or bad church services Members telling guests they were in the wrong pew or chair. Dirty facilities. Resources related to this episode: Top 10 Reasons Visitors Don’t Come Back by Thom Rainer

Mark Clifton, Dan Hurst, and Kyle Bueermann discuss what happens when churches become too busy. Activities become synonymous with ministry. Programs and ministries are added regularly, but few or none are ever deleted. Programs and ministries become sacred cows. The alignment question is not even asked on the front end. Silo behavior among the different ministries of the church. Lack of an evaluation process. Ministry becomes facility-centered. Lack of courageous leadership. Resources related to this episode: 8 Reasons Churches Become Too Busy by Thom Rainer

Mark Clifton, Dan Hurst, and Kyle Bueermann discuss what happens when church committees go off the rails in a church. When there are almost more committees in the church constitution than there are people in the church. When the church has not examined, revised, and strengthened its committee structure in years (perhaps even a decade or longer). When the progress of the church gets bogged down in competing or controlling committees. When one committee is the power broker of the entire church. When most committee members can’t tell you what their committee does. When committees actually haven’t met or functioned for years. When committees meet, but they don’t actually do anything. When committee membership becomes a goal for church members who want power and control. When the church still has business meetings simply so the committees can report. When no one in the church will publicly question the value of these committees. Resources related to this episode: 10 Indications That a Church’s Committees Are Out of Control by Chuck Lawless

Mark Clifton, Dan Hurst, and Kyle Bueermann discuss some reasons that church announcements don’t usually lead to church member involvement. Folks aren’t listening to your announcements (or reading your emails…or newsletters). Announcements seldom include the “why” with the “what.” Listeners hear a corporate announcement (if they hear it at all) for everyone else – not for themselves. Some church members carry baggage that makes it difficult for them to hear a call for workers. The wrong people make the announcements. Announcements put the responsibility on the respondent rather than on the recruiter. The church is making announcements, but not one’s praying for the Lord to raise up the laborers. Resources related to this episode: 7 Reasons Why Announcements Don’t Usually Lead to Church Member Involvement by Chuck Lawless

Mark welcomes Bob Payne, a volunteer with Experiencing God ministries, to discuss Experiencing God weekends. The Seven Realities of Experiencing God: God is always at work around you. God pursues a loving relationship with us. God invites us to join Him in His work. God speaks to us by prayer, Scripture, circumstances, and the church. When God speaks, it takes us to a crisis of belief that requires faith and action. We must make major adjustments to join God in His work. We come to know God by experience as we see Him accomplish His work through our obedience. Additional Resources: Return to Worship by Ron Owens Experiencing God by Henry and Richard Blackaby Blackaby Ministries, Intl.

Mark Clifton, Dan Hurst, and Kyle Bueermann discuss some key insights that church consultants have gained from visiting churches. Church websites are often outdated, boring…and useless. Churches are not friendly. Church facilities are not generally marked well. Churches aren’t prepared for guests. Churches are poorly equipped for protecting children. Worship through music often needs improvement. Preaching is often weak. Churches are not always clear on “what to do” in response to worship.

Mark Clifton, Dan Hurst, and Kyle Bueermann discuss some ways to earn and keep trust in your church. Display confidence, but never cockiness. Follow through, which means you never over-commit. To earn and keep trust, put trust in others. Extend grace but be firm in some non-negotiable principles. Don’t be a know-it-all. Exhibit humility but have courage to do the hard things. Value people more than progress. Resources related to this episode: 7 Ways to Earn and Keep Trust by Ron Edmondson

Mark Clifton, Dan Hurst, and Kyle Bueermann discuss the next five of ten “Church Diseases” from a fascinating article by Chuck Lawless about some afflictions that affect churches. Community Disconnect Disease Methodological Arthritis “The Grass is Greener” Syndrome Professional Wrestling Sickness Program Nausea Resources related to this episode: 10 Church Diseases That Might Be Afflicting Your Church by Chuck Lawless Free NAMB Demographic Report