Renovatio: The Podcast

Can English Capture the Language of Revelation? Robert Alter's Torah and Lessons for the Translation of the Qur'an by Caner K. DagliCan English truly capture the language of divine revelation? Robert Alter's literary approach to translating the Hebrew Bible offers profound lessons for how Muslims might translate the Qur'an—and why most English Qur'an translations fall short.KEY INSIGHTS: • Why Alter's one-man Torah translation caused a literary sensation • How respecting register, rhythm, and rhetoric preserves sacred text's power • The problem with committee translations that flatten sacred language • Three historical English Qur'an translations that achieved literary excellenceRobert Alter, a comparative literature professor, challenged centuries of biblical translation by prioritizing literary style over theological smoothness. His jarring translation of Esau's crude demand—"Let me gulp down some of this red red stuff"—preserves the original's colloquial register, shocking modern readers just as it shocked ancient audiences.Scholar Caner K. Dagli explores what Muslims can learn from this approach, examining three English Qur'an translations that rise to literary merit: George Sale's 1734 version (Thomas Jefferson's Qur'an), and more recent attempts to capture the rhetorical power of Arabic revelation. While Muslims have traditionally insisted the Qur'an cannot be translated—only "interpreted"—Dagli suggests Alter's methodology offers a path forward for conveying the Qur'an's linguistic majesty in English.The essay challenges translators to honor both the uniqueness and beauty of sacred language rather than domesticating it into contemporary idiom, preserving what makes scripture unlike ordinary speech.Read the full essay: https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/robert-alters-torah-and-lessons-for-the-translation-of-the-quranAbout the Author: Caner K. Dagli is Associate Professor of Religious Studies at the College of the Holy Cross and general editor of The Study Quran.Subscribe for more essays on sacred texts and translation#QuranTranslation #BiblicalStudies #RobertAlter #SacredTexts #LiteraryTranslation #IslamicStudies #HebrewBible #Renovatio #ZaytunaCollege #ComparativeReligion

What if the chaos in our societies today began not in politics or economics, but in our music? This episode explores a fascinating theory from ancient Greece and China: that civilization's decline starts when musical traditions break down. Drawing from Plato's Laws and Chinese historical accounts, we examine how ancient thinkers believed that exposure to disorderly music could lead directly to political collapse—and why this ancient warning might be eerily relevant to our algorithm-driven, emotionally reactive modern world.Key Topics Covered:The concept of "theatrocracy"—rule by the irrational whims of the audienceHow ancient Greece and China both developed musical laws to preserve social harmonyThe connection between the Logos (Greek) and the Tao (Chinese) in musical philosophyWhy Plato warned against sensational music creating social breakdownThe fall of the Zhou dynasty and parallels to Athens' declineHow musical conventions shaped virtue and emotional regulationThe relationship between artistic discipline and genuine creative freedomWhy breaking from tradition without technical mastery leads to cultural declineT.S. Eliot's defense of tradition in creative expression

Cultural Devolution:How the new victimhood culture rejects human dignity and divinityBy Hamza Yusuf Read by Michael Sugich"Cultures vary in their approaches to instilling a sense of right and wrong in children, and in determining how to encourage rights and redress wrongs. One key difference in approaches relates to the religiosity, or the lack thereof, of the specific culture. In cultures where a significant number of people remain religious, parents often introduce scripturally derived concepts of reward and punishment, promote emulation of prophetic or sagely character, and warn of God’s wrath or bad karma upon those who break moral codes or disregard divine sanctions found in such presentations as the Ten Commandments or the Golden Rule. Other cultures, especially in modern secular societies, take a more humanistic approach, arguing that basic moral precepts—such as telling the truth—are simply self-evident and result when good people act appropriately. In other words, good people exhibit upright moral behavior, they tell the truth, they don’t steal, and they abide by the rule of law. Teaching young people these basic principles of behavior takes time and constant vigilance, since many youth display a rebellious spirit expressed in testing limits, getting away with things, and violating the status quo. Young people commonly question the mores of a culture, and shifts in cultural norms usually occur first among them."Hamza Yusuf is the president of Zaytuna College. He promotes classical learning in Islam and emphasizes the importance of the tools of learning so central to Muslim civilization and known in the West as the liberal arts. He serves as vice president for the Forum for Promoting Peace in Muslim Societies, and he has published numerous articles, essays, encyclopedia entries, and translations, including The Prayer of the Oppressed and Purification of the Heart.

Many intellectuals believe Islamophobia is a form of racism, but the ultimate presuppositions embedded in this view are antithetical not only to Islam but to religion as such.https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/muslims-are-not-a-race

The modern world knows it faces a void of meaning—and in a strange recurrence of history, some secular intellectuals are now calling for various forms of paganism.An essay by Faraz Khan

To many, Islamic art can speak more profoundly and clearly than even the written word. Is it wiser then for Muslims to show, not to tell?Article by Oludamini OgunnaikeRead here: https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/the-silent-theology-of-islamic-art

Contrary to its usage in today’s public discourse, dignity is not something all humans universally have, but something that everyone must do.Article by Caner K. Dagli https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/dignity-is-for-the-heart-not-the-ego

Some philosophers believe materialism has now reached an insurmountable quandary in the question of consciousness.

There is something paradoxical about that deepest and most original source of social organization—namely, the giving and receiving of gifts. Read the Article: https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/the-human-arts-of-graceful-giving-and-grateful-receiving

Science, philosophy, and art have been blown apart, and our conversations have devolved into chaos. How do we begin to learn the art of disagreement?Read the article: https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/wisdom-in-pieces

Despite the diversity of our countless creeds, colors, and cultures, our society has been subsumed into a monoculture of ersatz arts, entertainment, and consumerism. How can we recapture humanity’s once extraordinary individuality?

The Egalitarian Objection to Liberal EducationAnd Why the Liberal Arts Are Indispensable to EqualityBy Thomas Hibbs

What does it mean to “manifest” something, or for something to “become manifest”? For those familiar with Islamic mystical terminology, the concept of tajallī may come to mind. Often rendered into English as “manifestation,” tajallī denotes the appearance or disclosure of the divine names in physical forms. Similar to the notion of “theophany” in other religious traditions (with the philosopher Henry Corbin taking tajallī to be a synonym of just that),1 it means passively experiencing God “manifesting” Himself in the world. But “manifestation” has come to mean something rather different in the realm of contemporary popular spirituality—especially on its digital interfaces. Most prominently on the social media app TikTok, it refers to a popular trend consisting of supposedly supernatural means of attracting money, good grades, more followers, or even a wholesale “dream life.” Read the essay: https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/transcendence-and-tiktok

Sacred scriptures certainly qualify as Great Books, but can they be read as literature in secular settings?Read the essay by Eva Brann- https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/other-peoples-truths

The way societies driven by profit and production design and build lived environments breeds an apathy that, unchecked, can only lead to the dissolution of human communities as we’ve known them. Article by Marwa Al-Sabouni https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/resisting-the-architecture-of-apathyRead by Lyba Hussain Produced by Faatimah Knight

The dignity of man in his potential to be whatever he desires to be, this fifteenth-century Italian prince & philosopher gave rise to the modern secular worldview that privileges self-actualization above all else.Essay by Esme Partridge

What if each and every ethnic group developed a very strong nationalist movement? There would be bloodshed and chaos until the unforeseeable future.https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/where-islam-and-nationalism-collide

Does reading help you think if you write your thoughts about what you’re reading? What’s the difference between writing books about books, and writing books drawn from one’s own experiences? Such questions relate to matters that are both practical and philosophical. In this episode of our podcast, Safir Ahmed, editor of Renovatio, interviews philosopher Sophia Vasalou who writes engagingly on philosophical theology, virtue ethics, Al-Ghazali, Schopenhauer, wonder, and much more. The conversation springs from Vasalou’s essay, “Can We Think Deeply About Important Ideas Without Writing About Them?” which argues that writing that cultivates the ideals of intellectual and moral growth must eschew the illusions of originality and detachment. Vasalou shares insights from her scholarly journey, discussing the distinction between writing about philosophical concepts and writing from personal experience, particularly in her works on moral beauty and the experience of wonder.

Who is better placed to say what Islam is: the academic from the “outside” or the practitioner from “within”? In this episode of the Renovatio podcast, Ubaydullah Evans interviews Caner Dagli, a scholar of Islamic Studies, to explore the surprisingly elusive answer to the question: “Who gets to define Islam?” As an academic, Dagli critiques the approach the academy has historically taken in defining Islam within certain predetermined frameworks. They explore the tension among scholars in their attempts to define Islam, the tug between whether to hold the practice of Muslim laity or the pronouncements of Muslim scholars with greater authority, and the tension between unity and diversity in the practice and belief of Muslims worldwide. We encourage you to read Caner Dagli’s article, “Islam as One Thing, Anything, or Nothing: What the Western Academy Gets Wrong.”

Asma Afsaruddin argues that jihad (martial engagement) as articulated in the Qur’an and by numerous classical Muslim scholars is primarily defensive in nature. The crux of her argument relies on relevant verses from the Qur’an and prominent Sunni exegetes such as Ibn Abbas, Mujahib ibn Jabbar, and Fakhr al-Din al-Razi. These commentators, writes Asfaruddin, argue that the Qur’an only authorizes Muslims to retaliate against those who aggress upon them. In conversation with Ubaydullah Evans, Asma Afsaruddin draws out the major arguments of her recent article Justice, Nonaggression, and Military Ethics in Islam.

Modern science identifies the self with the brain, but this materialist conception of the self is wholly insufficient.

Lenn E. Goodman, an expert on Jewish and Islamic metaphysics, joins Esme Partridge to discuss the philosophical heritage of AI (artificial intelligence)—which he locates in the medieval and renaissance study of alchemy, which ultimately sought to create man from matter—and the implications of our rapid embrace of AI.

"One thing that is true of [the Great Books] list is that you cannot… think that it is a unified, monolithic view of the truth. Hobbes and Machiavelli disagree vehemently with Plato, right? There's some continuity there, but Aquinas does not agree with David Hume, who is an atheist. So, at a minimum, an honest reading of that tradition is an introduction not to a monolithic unified conception of what the truth is, but to a series of important debates."—Thomas HibbsPhilosopher Thomas Hibbs and host Ubaydullah Evans explore one of the most repeated objections to the universal benefits of a liberal arts education.Recommended Read: “The Egalitarian Objection to Liberal Education,” Thomas Hibbs, Renovatio

"The empirical in the traditional notion of reason is only one component in the uncovering of our knowledge. But knowledge really involves uncovering the intelligible object. So what that means is the intelligible object is not there in the empirical world—that actually means transcending the empirical world to make contact with this intelligible essence."Zaytuna lecturer Hasan Spiker identifies the true ground of objectivity in a conversation with Esme Partridge.

“If your ultimate concern is yourself, if you have spent your life building a monument to yourself, then in biblical terms, that’s idolatry. I think we live in an idolatrous society… I think it is extremely difficult for people to achieve a moral life without a community.”Chris Hedges speaks to Renovatio editor Safir Ahmed about what fuels our contemporary narcissism and prevents us fulfilling our moral obligations to our selves and to society. Recommended Read: “How the Cult of the Self Undermines the Rule of Law,” Chris Hedges, Renovatio

In this podcast, Muhammad U. Faruque speaks with Esme Partridge on his recently published book, Sculpting the Self: Islam, Selfhood, and Human Flourishing, which examine notions of selfhood and subjectivity before and in the modern period. Muhammad U. Faruque is Inayat Malik Assistant Professor at the University of Cincinnati. Esmé L. K. Partridge is a writer on Islamic thought and the dynamics between tradition and modernity in a secular age.

Listen and read show notes on Renovatio: https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/media/what-other-than-god-do-we-worship

Listen and read show notes on Renovatio: https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/media/protection-from-power

Listen and read show notes on Renovatio: https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/media/what-is-the-nature-of-being-alone

What better topic for discussion than beauty, muses Oludamini Ogunnaike, a regular contributor to Renovatio and a scholar of Islam in north and west Africa. Beauty is inseparable from truth, goodness, and justice, yet reference to it is missing from many of our most important discussions on those matters. The neglect of beauty has been detrimental to communities everywhere, notes Ogunnaike; it’s often seen as superfluous, compartmentalized from other values, or reserved for the elite when, in fact, beauty remains an existential need for every human being. Ubaydullah Evans engages with Ogunnaike on the quiddity of beauty, beauty as it relates to a fuller understanding of God, and the correlation between beauty and spiritual maturity. Oludamini Ogunnaike is assistant professor of African religious thought at the University of Virginia.Ubaydullah Evans is the scholar-in-residence of the American Learning Institute for Muslims (ALIM) and an instructor with the Ta’leef Collective.For show notes, visit our website:

Asad Tarsin, author of Being Muslim: A Practical Guide, speaks with Joshua Lee Harris, a specialist on the work of Thomas Aquinas, on his article for Renovatio, “The Human Arts of Graceful Giving and Grateful Receiving.” In their conversation, Harris explains how his desire to understand gratitude grew from wanting to inculcate gratefulness in his own life and also from encountering people who affirmed gratitude despite facing extreme adversity. This experience, as well as his philosophical and theological exploration of the topic, led him to approach being grateful not only as an emotion, but as a matter of cognition and attentiveness to life. He also discusses how the Roman philosopher Seneca underscores the intention of the giver as an important consideration that distinguishes generosity and gratitude from other social interactions. Tarsin and Harris exchange ideas about humility as a prerequisite for true gratefulness, Imam al-Ghazālī’s three components of gratitude, and what evolution can’t explain about gratitude. Joshua Lee Harris specializes in the philosophy of Saint Thomas Aquinas. Asad Tarsin is a medical doctor and author of Being Muslim: A Practical Guide.

In this episode, scholars Caner Dagli and Andrew March discuss theories of democracy and their relationship to modern Islamic thought, how modern Muslims grapple with democracy’s promise as well as its baggage, and whether metaphysics can (or should) be untangled from politics. (While March raises Tunisia as an example of a succeeding Muslim democracy, please note that this podcast was recorded before the suspension of parliament and the dismissal of the prime minister.)

The mere act of writing for one’s self tends to reveal the fact that each one of us contains multitudes. When we write in our diaries or journals, we employ rhetorical devices even though our audience is within us. Scott Crider and Sarah Barnette—both are teachers and scholars committed to the craft of writing—discuss how conversing with one’s self through writing treats the self like the other in a useful way, giving us liberal room to persuade or represent ourselves. The end result, hopefully, is that one is transformed through the openness of the experience, having escaped from conflict or confusion into clarity. Crider and Barnette also speak about practical matters: about how to start the practice of writing, how to make use of originality, and how to lean on the good writing of others. Sarah Barnette is a scholar of English literature with an interest in Victorian literary ethics. Scott F. Crider is a professor of English at the University of Dallas, Constantin College of Liberal Arts.Listen and read show notes on Renovatio: https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/media/cultivating-the-life-skill-of-writing

Asma T. Uddin litigated issues of religious liberty for years, but it wasn’t until Burwell v. Hobby Lobby—the US Supreme Court case about whether the Affordable Care Act required Christian owners of a private company to offer contraception as part of their employee health coverage—that she felt thrust into an arena where religious freedom was understood through a stark political lens. In this episode, Caner K. Dagli, professor of religious studies at College of the Holy Cross, speaks with Uddin on the path she sees for Muslims to effect real change for themselves without succumbing to tribalism and explores her views on the increasingly antiquated and often constricting allegiances of left and right. They discuss strategic paths to change that Muslims can employ that recognize the common humanity of all Americans and develop a more dynamic engagement with the political system. Caner K. Dagli specializes in Qur’anic studies, interfaith dialogue, and philosophy. He is an associate professor of religious studies at College of the Holy Cross. Asma T. Uddin is a religious liberty lawyer and scholar working for the protection of religious expression for people of all faiths in the US and abroad.

What kind of equality could be universal? A scan of history shows that our modern ideal of equality is more fiction than fact. In this episode, Ubaydullah Evans interviews the historian Juan Cole on his forthcoming article for Renovatio that addresses the issue of equality by examining the text and context of the Qur’an. The two discuss how equality is one of the great unquestioned values of our time, one that has always existed as an area of great concern throughout history. They talk about the Qur’an’s explicit characterization of diversity as a manifestation of God’s creative power, an affront to the dangerous human tendency to view difference as an aberration from the norm. They exchange ideas about the Qur’anic focus on the virtue of an individual and, in doing so, highlight what made for a radical notion during the time of the Arab antiquity—that a person’s worth is not tied to her group identity but rather exists as a bestowal from God. Ubaydullah Evans is the scholar-in-residence of the American Learning Institute for Muslims (ALIM) and an instructor with the Ta’leef Collective. Juan Cole is Richard P. Mitchell Collegiate Professor of History at the University of Michigan.

Sarah Barnette, a scholar of Victorian literature, speaks with Fr. Francisco Nahoe on great books and the pleasure of reading. Fr. Francisco, a Roman Catholic priest and Franciscan friar, is a scholar of Renaissance literature currently teaching courses in rhetoric and philosophy at Zaytuna College. The writers Barnette reads, such as the Brontë sisters, were inspired by Renaissance works like those Fr. Francisco reads—works Barnette is less familiar with. She wonders, and asks as much of Fr. Francisco, what might be missing in her understanding of Victorian texts without a fuller grasp of the works that helped to birth that era. The two discuss what makes great books great, the joy of reading, and the “unruly and intimidating” lineage of great literature. Sarah Barnette, a frequent contributor to Renovatio, completed her PhD in English literature at the University of Oxford in 2017. Francisco Nahoe, who teaches courses in the trivium and politics at Zaytuna College, is a Roman Catholic priest and Franciscan friar.

In the Netherlands, the political climate was toxic with anti-Islam bigotry when Joram van Klaveren made a name for himself as a prominent and ambitious politician. He helped to lead the Party for Freedom, with its central platform hostile to Islam and Muslims in the Netherlands. When he set out to write a book that would ground his rhetoric against Islam, he would discover that he neither knew much about Islam nor was convinced of the basic tenets of Christianity, the religion he was fighting for. As Joram pored over books to inform his own, his intentions changed from a close-minded diatribe to a man in search of God and in search of meaning. Joram van Klaveren is a former far-right Dutch politician. In the midst of writing an anti-Islam book, he became a Muslim and rededicated his book, which he would eventually title Apostate, to his search for God and subsequent conversion to Islam. Ubaydullah Evans is the scholar-in-residence of the American Learning Institute for Muslims (ALIM) and an instructor with the Ta’leef Collective.

Hamza Yusuf interviews President Thomas Hibbs, former president of the University of Dallas, on the importance of rekindling a love of language so we might better articulate ourselves and possess the words to describe our experience of the world. Hamza Yusuf and Thomas Hibbs discuss, among other topics, how the silos created by our culture leave us unable to negotiate the inevitable friction that comes with living in a diverse society. For Yusuf and Hibbs, nihilism’s push toward meaninglessness and upheaval threatens our society because we lack a common transcendent standard to which we can appeal. As a result, our popular dialogue is more corrosive and less productive, and people are less sensitive to a sense of what’s missing. Hamza Yusuf is the president and cofounder of Zaytuna College.Thomas Hibbs is former president of the University of Dallas and author of Shows about Nothing.

How should religious philosophers understand the methods and goals of modern philosophy? In this episode, Caner Dagli interviews David Bentley Hart on the state of philosophy and whether the believer can be hopeful about its future. They take on the fragmentation of science, philosophy, and art and discuss the consequences of the humanities being crowded out from intellectual life in pursuit of nearsighted economic ends. Caner K. Dagli is an associate professor of religious studies at College of the Holy Cross.David Bentley Hart is an Orthodox Christian philosophical theologian and cultural commentator.

In this episode, Caner Dagli and Khalil Abdur-Rashid explore racialization and religion, using Dagli’s article for Renovatio, “Muslims Are Not a Race,” as a point of departure to examine whether the lens of race obscures actual motivations behind Islamophobia—be they sectarianism, dehumanization caused by war, or political disputes—or helps defang them. Dagli and Abdur-Rashid seek precision and clarity on these matters, invoking foundational concepts in Islam, such as the value of intention and the centrality of justice, and bringing into focus less-examined questions around the nature of anti-Muslim bigotry and what Muslims ought to do about it. Caner K. Dagli is an associate professor of religious studies at College of the Holy Cross. Khalil Abdur-Rashid is the Muslim chaplain at Harvard University, an instructor of Muslim studies at Harvard Divinity School, and a public policy lecturer at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. “Muslims Are Not a Race” by Caner K. Daglihttps://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/article/muslims-are-not-a-race

Juan Cole's Muhammad: Prophet of Peace Amid the Clash of Empires (2018) retells the history of the prophetic period in seventh-century Arabia through the context of a brutal war between the Iranian Sassanian Empire and the Roman Empire in the Near East. In this conversation, Juan Cole and Hamza Yusuf reflect on how a new understanding of the historical period can give us sharper insights into the prophetic mission and the message of the Qur'an.

Hamza Yusuf, President of Zaytuna College, converses with Eva Brann, the sagely long time educator and author of St. Johns College in Annapolis Maryland about philosophy, wisdom, and wit.

Scott Crider and Hamza Yusuf discuss the art and artifice of poetry. https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/authors/scott-crider https://renovatio.zaytuna.edu/authors/hamza-yusuf ____________________________________ Moon Landing – W. H. Auden It’s natural the Boys should whoop it up for so huge a phallic triumph, an adventure it would not have occurred to women to think worth while, made possible only because we like huddling in gangs and knowing the exact time: yes, our sex may in fairness hurrah the deed, although the motives that primed it were somewhat less than menschlich. A grand gesture. But what does it period? What does it osse? We were always adroiter with objects than lives, and more facile at courage than kindness: from the moment the first flint was flaked this landing was merely a matter of time. But our selves, like Adam’s, still don’t fit us exactly, modern only in this – our lack of decorum. Homer’s heroes were certainly no braver than our Trio, but more fortunate: Hector was excused the insult of having his valor covered by television. Worth going to see? I can well believe it. Worth seeing? Mneh! I once rode through a desert and was not charmed: give me a watered lively garden, remote from blatherers about the New, the von Brauns and their ilk, where on August mornings I can count the morning glories, where to die has a meaning, and no engine can shift my perspective. Unsmudged, thank God, my Moon still queens the Heavens as She ebbs and fulls, a Presence to glop at, Her Old Man, made of grit not protein, still visits my Austrian several with His old detachment, and the old warnings still have power to scare me: Hybris comes to an ugly finish, Irreverence is a greater oaf than Superstition. Our apparatniks will continue making the usual squalid mess called History: all we can pray for is that artists, chefs and saints may still appear to blithe it. August 1969