The Prodigal Son's Father: God's Unconditional Love and Divine Initiative

In this profound exploration of Luke 15, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb complete their examination of the Parable of the Prodigal Son by focusing on the often-overlooked central figure: the father. Rather than a sentimental character, the father serves as a revelatory figure who demonstrates God's nature toward returning prodigals and resentful religious people alike. This episode challenges common misinterpretations of the parable, particularly regarding the father's running to meet his son, and explores how the parable simultaneously confronts both antinomianism and legalism. The hosts demonstrate how the father's love—not the son's repentance—is the driving force of redemption, offering vital insights into God's character and the nature of grace that should transform how we understand salvation and our relationship with the Heavenly Father.

Key Takeaways

• The Father is the Keystone: The father, not the sons, is the central, load-bearing character of the parable, revealing God's character and serving as the foundation for understanding the entire narrative.
• Divine Initiative Precedes Human Response: The father's compassion and action are described before the son completes his confession, demonstrating that God's mercy initiates reconciliation rather than being triggered by repentance.
• The Father's "Running" Represents Condescension, Not Embarrassment: Contrary to popular interpretations, the father's running should be understood as divine condescension—God crossing the distance sin creates—rather than undignified self-abasement.
• God's Love Drives the Plan of Redemption: The parable corrects the theological error of pitting the Son against the Father, showing instead that the Father's love is the motivating force behind salvation (John 3:16).
• The Parable Confronts Two Errors Simultaneously: Jesus addresses both the younger son's rebellion (antinomianism) and the older son's self-righteousness (legalism), showing that both require the same gracious response from the Father.
• Wrath is God's "Alien Work": The father shows no wrath in the parable, illustrating that while God's wrath against sin is real, it is not his primary disposition—love and grace are central to his nature.
• The Insanity of Not Rejoicing: The shocking element of the parable isn't the father's celebration but the older brother's refusal to join it, directly confronting the Pharisees' attitude toward sinners being welcomed into God's kingdom.

Key Concepts The Father's Compassion and the Nature of Grace

The parable reveals that the father's compassion is active before any condition is met by the returning son. When the text says "while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion," we witness divine initiative in action. This sequence matters tremendously for our understanding of grace. The son had prepared a speech—a negotiation for hired servant status—but the father's embrace interrupts the transaction. Grace is not extracted from God by human improvement or the quality of our repentance; it flows from God's own character and will.

This theological reality guards against both presumption and despair. We cannot presume upon grace as though sin doesn't matter—the father clearly identifies the son's condition as "death" and "lostness." Yet neither can we despair that our repentance might be insufficient to move God—his love precedes and enables our return. As Ephesians 1:4-6 declares, God chose us "before the foundation of the world...according to the pleasure of His goodwill." The father's running illustrates what was true before time began: God's saving disposition originates in himself, not in us.

Condescension versus Decorum: Rethinking the Father's Run

Much scholarship has emphasized the supposed shame of a patriarch running, suggesting this represents God's willingness to be embarrassed for our sake. However, this interpretation may miss the mark. The running should be understood as condescension—God stooping to save—rather than a violation of decorum. Throughout Scripture, God is described as "bearing Israel up as a man carries his son" (Deuteronomy 1:31) and having compassion that "grows warm" (Hosea 11:8). These are images of condescension: the infinite God making himself accessible to finite creatures.

The distinction matters because it shapes how we understand God's character. If the father's running is primarily about embarrassment, the focus remains on cost to dignity. But if it's about condescension, the focus shifts to the nature of love that bridges distance. Any parent who has seen a long-lost child return understands this instinct—you don't calculate dignity; you simply run. The father's action isn't surprising or unusual given the circumstances; what's shocking is the older brother's refusal to share in the joy. This interpretation better fits the parable's context and Jesus's purpose in telling it to the Pharisees.

The Father's Love as the Engine of Redemption

Perhaps the most crucial theological correction this parable offers concerns the relationship between the Father and the Son in the economy of salvation. Some theological circles wrongly pit "the wrathful Father" against "the loving Son," as though Jesus came to change the Father's mind about sinners. This parable demolishes that error. The father's love is the initiating force of the entire narrative. Before the son returns, the father is disposed to welcome him. Before the older son rejects the celebration, the father goes out to plead with him.

This reflects the biblical pattern consistently: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son" (John 3:16)—the Father's love gives the Son. The covenant of redemption originates in the Father's love for the elect. The incarnation, atonement, and application of redemption all flow from the Father's initiative. Wrath, while real and righteous, is God's "alien work"—not foreign to him, but not his primary disposition either. The father in the parable displays nothing but gracious intention toward both sons, never manipulated into love, never coerced into mercy, but freely extending restoration because it flows from who he is.

Memorable Quotes

The love of God the Father is the motivating factor that drives the whole plan of redemption...So it's God the Father's love that drives the whole plan of salvation. The whole covenant of redemption is initiated in light of the Father's love. - Tony Arsenal

The father in this archway is the keystone. He's the load-bearing character in this whole parable. He's not just a sentimental figure, he's a revelatory figure. He shows us what God is like toward returning prodigals and toward resentful older brothers. - Jesse Schwamb

The point that the parable is making is that the love of this father drives him to exert himself and close that distance...There is never a point in the parable where there's anything shown by the father except for love for his people. - Tony Arsenal

Full Transcript

[00:00:08] Tony Arsenal: In a lot of theological circles, this takes the form of pitting the son against the father, like God, the Son against God, the Father

the son placated the father. Because the father was wrathful and angry, so Jesus had to come down and die and now the Father can love us. The reality is the love of God the father, is the motivating factor that drives the plan of redemption,

and that's the same love of the Son and the same love of the spirit. In the most famous verse in the Bible, for God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that's God the Father

So it's God the Father's love that drives the whole plan of salvation. The whole covenant of redemption is initiated in light of the Father's love

[00:00:53] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 479 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.

[00:01:00] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear.

Hey brother.

[00:01:05] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother.

[00:01:06] Discussing the Parable of the Lost Son

[00:01:06] Jesse Schwamb: We've been famously in the parable of the Lost Son or The Lost Sons. Or the father. Everybody knows this. And today on this episode, we're at least gonna close out our conversation about Luke Chapter 15. And I think everybody should just imagine that this parable is like a grand stone archway that's being constructed in such a way that it has to bear its own weight.

And the father in this archway is the keystone. He's the load-bearing character in this whole parable. He's not just like a sentimental figure, he's a revelatory figure. He shows us what God is like toward returning prodigals and toward resentful older brothers. And Jesus uses this to fire up our understanding of the kingdom and the gospel, and also to fire up the scribes and the Sadducees.

So we're talking about the Father on this episode, and he's rightfully the culminating character here. He's the keystone. So we're gonna get to arch building, keytones load bearing stuff, all the engineering that you wanted us to talk about in this parable. First we, we gotta do that thing. We just gotta do it, Tony.

[00:02:16] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, we do.

[00:02:17] Affirmations and Denials

[00:02:17] Jesse Schwamb: It's affirmations and denial. So are you, and your excitement is palpable. Are you affirming or are you denying against,

[00:02:24] Tony Arsenal: I'm denying something tonight? It's a little bit heavy.

[00:02:26] Political Discourse and Christian Perspective

[00:02:26] Tony Arsenal: Um, we haven't, and, and we don't typically wade into political discourse or what's going on in politics. Um, that's just not really our, our lane.

And that's not that there's anything wrong with shows that do, or that there's anything wrong with Christians who want to be involved in political discourse. It's just not really our thing. But, um, you know, I, I grew up in Minneapolis and I have family still in Minneapolis and I was texting with my sister the other day who, um, lives and works right in downtown Minneapolis.

And so I think, I think what I'm denying is not necessarily anything related directly to ICE or to the political positions. Um, what I see online. Is that there is a. Bifurcation. There are, there seems to be, and I think this is probably just the, like the nature of online discourse. So I don't think this is necessarily the way it is in the real world, but what I see online is there seems to be sort of progressive leaning Christians who are totally anti-ice.

This is the worst thing ever. Um, you know, nobody who's being arrested and deported deserves it and all of the ice people here, but that's one perspective. And then what I tend to see on the other side is ice is like God's righteous warriors and everyone who they scoop up it deserves it no matter what.

And they can do no wrong. And, uh. I am not making a commentary. Um, if you want to ask me directly in, in privately what I think about it, I, I'm happy to have a conversation. I'm not doing that right now. Um, I have no commentary on the legality of the, the deportations or the legality of the way they're conducting arrests.

That's just, I'm just not interested in talking about that on, on a podcast. But what I do think is challenging and what I think we need to think about as Christians is there is a real.

[00:04:24] Reflecting on Suffering and Compassion

[00:04:24] Tony Arsenal: Human cost associated with what's going on, and there are lives, um, that are affected and there are people who are scared.

I, I think where this really hit me is I just texted my sister to, you know, to tell her that I was praying for her and, and get sort of a general check-in. And she shared with me, and I'm sure that this is not unique to her context. She shared with me that she has, uh, colleagues at, uh, her place of employment, um, who are, are American citizens born in the us, born to citizens.

Like there's no question about their citizenship. Um, and they are afraid to leave their home and afraid to go to work. Again, I'm not making any commentary on whether there's illegal things going on. I'm not even making any commentary on whether or not, um, I think it's reasonable for them to be afraid.

Um, the fact of the matter is they are afraid to to leave their homes, and some of those people are probably afraid to leave their homes because they feel like ice is going to harass them. Other people are probably afraid to leave their homes because there's a lot of violence and a lot of, uh, unrest going on.

But in, in either case, uh, I think we as Christians should look at this and see that there are a lot of hurting people who need Jesus. And there are a lot of people who are scared and there's a lot of people who are suffering real concrete arm all across the whole spectrum of this situations. So as Christians, I think we should be praying that God's will would be done and God does not delight in suffering for, you know, for suffering sake.

He doesn't delight in people being hurt or harmed or even emotionally scarred. Um. You know, we have sometimes this picture of God who's so abstract that those things he, that they don't bother him. And that's true from like a strictly theological sense, but we also have to reconcile what the scripture says and what it, what the picture it paints.

Um, at the very least, God, uh, reveals himself under the language of grieving, uh, injustice and grieving misery and grieving sorrow and suffering. So we should be a people that reflects that. Uh, although there are times when those things are necessary, both in the life of a Christian and then also as a result of sin in, we, we shouldn't be reveling in it and, and being excited about the fact that this is happening.

So I, I might get some heat for this and I guess I don't really care all that much. Um, but I think this polarized like. Every person who's scooped up by ice is, is a terrible, awful criminal. And it doesn't really matter what their story is. And then anyone who's scooped up by ice is just a total victim.

And it doesn't really matter what their story is like neither of those polls are true for most of the situations, um, to, you know, the story probably drift towards one side or another, and they're not all like right in the middle. But, um, the, the truth is that the world and life is complex and we shouldn't treat it as though it's, it's simple.

It really is not, in most cases,

[00:07:30] Jesse Schwamb: it's a good reminder that there are places that are not here. That there are people, as you said, that are experiencing a different kind of suffering and your rights. Of course, if we're to be the kind of people that even ourselves are taking on our lips that we want to follow our Lord Jesus Christ, then the example that he gives for us is to think about, to identify with.

To come alongside in prayer for those that are suffering. I think also for prayer for Christians in those communities to be strong and to exemplify the love of Christ in ways that they can. And so of course, I immediately go to Isaiah 53, and that's also about really the ubiquity of suffering in our world, but this massive desire on the part of God in an unreserved way to identify with that kind of suffering.

So in verse four, the famous verses, surely our griefs, he himself bore what? A statement, right? Yeah. Like the grief that we're talking about now, that we're not alone. The grief of those who in the midst of this kind of traumatic, uh, sorrow and our sorrows, he carried. We ourselves steamed him, stricken, smitten of God and afflicted.

But he was pierced through for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. The chastising for our peace fell upon him, and by his wounds, we are healed. All of us, like sheep have gone astray. Each of us has turned to his own way, but Yahweh has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on him. And who doesn't have iniquity?

All of us do. So this reminder that we serve a God who can parse out and understand the suffering the best, who is both just and justifier, and what is left to us then is to submit to him, to worship him, to pray that in that great grief, that our world experiences, that he himself would draw close as he has already promised to do, and that his spirit would come with both comforts and conviction to bring all his children onto himself, even in difficult situations like this.

[00:09:22] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, yeah.

[00:09:25] Affirmations and Denials Continued

[00:09:25] Tony Arsenal: Well, on that note, Jesse, are you affirming or denying something? There's no good transition there.

[00:09:30] Jesse Schwamb: No, it, it's heavy. I hear you. And the problem is partly in our culture right now is you can't, I understand your all, all, both of our desires right now to be measured in what we say because maybe we have opinions, maybe we don't.

But the bottom line is I'm not sure that opinions even help that much in this type of situation because the complexities involved here. And all I think that's left to say is just that it's hard. And I wish there was more I could do. I, I wish this kind of thing wasn't happening. And I, I understand too.

I'm not naive enough to think that's not just happening here, but all over the world, these kind of things take place at any given day. And if, if we are so fortunate not to have to contend with them, then we are just very fortunate and we all take that as blessing. It doesn't mean that we don't have a responsibility to pray and to, I think in some ways try to identify with that suffering if only through our prayers, reminding ourselves that, like you said, we all need to save, we all do.

All of us, you and me and all those involved in this, it's absolutely necessary. It's part of what we're talking about tonight, right? We're saying like, Lord God as father, come. Come in your mercy, come quickly, come and heal. Come and restore. Come and make right. Come and judge, come in comfort. That's what we're asking the father to do.

So it's, it's heavy, but we need those kind of affirmations and denials from time to time. So I,

[00:10:43] Tony Arsenal: yeah,

[00:10:44] Jesse Schwamb: I appreciate you being willing to bring that into the chat.

[00:10:47] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.

[00:10:49] Jesse Schwamb: You want my affirmation into Yeah.

[00:10:51] Tony Arsenal: I feel like I can't, I, I mean, I'll be honest, like I, I think people might be surprised at my overall perspective on this.

And again, I'm not gonna get into it here, and, and I really am being honest when I say, like, if you wanna reach out to me privately, I'm, I'm not shy about my perspective on this. I'm happy to share it, but I think it's just heavy. And I felt the same way about this during the George Floyd riots. You know, like I grew up in Minneapolis and.

It's been a long time since I've been super familiar with Minneapolis, but, and I, like, I grew up on, on the east side of the cities, which is the St. Paul side. So even, even saying I grew up in Minneapolis is not super accurate, but there are times when I look at the news coverage and I can see I, I recognize the landmarks, I recognize, um, the street layout, and I go, I know what street that is.

And there's something, there's something heavier about watching this kind of news coverage and this kind of event when this is the place you grew up. And when, when there are people there that you know, that aren't just names, that they're people with a history, that you're part of their history and they're part of your history, right?

There's something heavy about that. And I think what's been impressed on me and maybe why I am, why I am reflective on this is. Even if those people are not a part of our history, they're part of someone's history. Right. They're, they're of

course,

that that person you saw, and, and I'll just say it like again, I'm not making commentary on the rightness or the wrongness or the justified ness or not justified of, uh, the most recent ice involved shooting.

Um, but that person had a family like that, that person that was killed was an image bearer and had a family, and he had perspectives and he had opinions, and he was a person who, um. Death is terrible. Like all of those things are true regardless of whether he made a good decision to go out that day or a foolish decision to go out that day, whether he was antagonizing ice or whether he wasn't like whatever the situation was, it's still true that he had a family who is mourning him, um, and he was an image bearer, and now that's done.

Like he's, I mean, he's still an image bearer, but like now he's gone and his, his life on earth and his history here is over. And that's a tragedy, like no matter how we slice it, that's a tragedy. And I guess I'm just really sick of people acting as though, and, and I think most people are doing this for.

Political posturing reasons. I think people who wanna paint this as though it's good versus evil and that there's only simple answers in this, they're doing it because it suits a political narrative. And I'm not even making a commentary on whether or not that's good or, or wise or bad. Like I, that that's not even the point.

But that's a lot of what's driving this. And I, I think as Christians we can be and should be political. I think we should be involved in politics in so far that God calls us to. There's nothing wrong with that. But we, we don't have the liberty to do politics the way the world does politics. If we're gonna be involved in political action, whether that's formally by seeking office or whether that's informally by.

Making commentary. We still have to be Christians while we do it. We still have to, we still have to follow God's law while we do it. And that includes both the sixth Commandment and the ninth commandment. All of those things are true. And I guess I'm just really frustrated seeing some Christians or some people who call themselves Christians.

I, the only reason I say that is not to necessarily call their salvation into question. It's people who are identifying as Christians. I just have no knowledge of, it's just random screen names on Twitter. Some of them are probably bots, right? But there are people who identify, who are identifying themselves as Christians who are.

Acting as though the death of an image bearer is not a tragedy. And, and I, I can't think of a situation even when a hardened criminal is, is executed, even when justice is served by the death of an individual, it's still a tragedy and like a cosmic sense. That's not how it was supposed to be. It's not God's design for humans to perish and to, to, you know, to cease to be like, that's, that's just not the way it's supposed to be.

So it's heavy. I do want you to save me and get us out of this. Hopefully you've got some light, fun affirmation to get us back on track, but I've just, just been weighing on me and, and I feel like, I feel like sometimes we do have a platform and we have a responsibility to use it to, to make some statements to, to force us to grapple with these things.

I mean, I not like, it's a huge platform. We have like four or 500 regular listeners. It's not like we have a big reach, but we have a reach and we think, I think that has means we have a responsibility too.

[00:15:52] Jesse Schwamb: Also, this is how you and I talk, isn't it?

[00:15:54] Tony Arsenal: It's true. That's also true.

[00:15:56] Jesse Schwamb: This, and we're being true to the fact that we talk about the things that come up, that grieve us, that hurt us, that help us to process our faith and also our struggles in the midst of that faith.

[00:16:08] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.

[00:16:08] Jesse Schwamb: To make sure that we're honoring the Lord Jesus Christ in like difficult times and difficult circumstances of which again, by some, in almost all relative comparison, it's not that difficult for us, for you and I except that we have to contend with these things. Everybody should. So I think when you bring it forward, you remind us of that.

And I, for one, I'm grateful. So in that spirit, I don't know how my. Affirmation or denial could be heavier than that. Like we would, this would take a really weird turn. If I had one that was like, well, hold on, because I wade into so, and part of maybe its lightness is I'm gonna just break the rules. I'm gonna do an affirmation in denial, which used to be the old school method, but the affirmation is like, dry by, you rarely notice it happens.

So I'm just gonna drop it real quickly. So I've spoken before about two great series by author Brandon Sanderson, who writes amazing fictions in the fantasy genre. Uh, those two are miss Born in Stormlight Archive. So in case you know him as an author and you've been living under a rock, I just wanna say in passing that Apple TV just picked up, uh, some rights to those two series and they're gonna be making movies and, uh, television series.

And I high host because it's Apple and apparently Sanderson is also going to write, produce, and consult and approve and all this stuff. So it's gonna be good. So if you're not into reading. But you've heard me talk about them before. You can just wait and if you are into reading, get super stoked. 'cause you're gonna see people like, you know, VIN and Ellen in person.

Apparently it's gonna be great. So that's news in passing. Nothing else. Say

[00:17:36] Tony Arsenal: Vin and Ellen. Like Vin Diesel and Ellen DeGeneres are starring in

[00:17:40] Jesse Schwamb: this show? No, no. Being the character in Ellen. Ellen,

[00:17:45] Tony Arsenal: you're on like a first name basis with Vin and Ellen.

[00:17:48] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. I mean, if you read, I mean, if you know, you know, if you know, you know, so you have time to read, read, miss, board, read Storm, like archive.

It's actually, there's a lot of books, but, but I'm super stoked that this is gonna happen. So that was just a, that's the drive by I, I gotta leave it there. We're gonna, I've already drawn like just sped past the house, so here's the real denial. I'm also going denial. It is lighter than yours, Tony, but I think that you'll agree with me, but I'm not entirely sure.

So we're gonna find out.

[00:18:13] Cold Weather and Personal Preferences

[00:18:13] Jesse Schwamb: So I think the best way I can summarize this denial is like the dislike or vitriol, that's too strong a word, but I'm denying against the, what I think is too much dislike against. The cold weather. So, so hear me out on this in lots of places of the world right now, it's cold, it's super cold, it's colder than average for many people.

And I get that that can be uncomfortable. But there's something for me where I've always found the cold to be kind of life giving. It makes you feel alive. Like you go outside, uh, to take out the trash on a cold night, you breathe in that air and yeah, maybe it burns your lungs a little bit. You look up at the clear sky.

There's something about a beauty of the cold that I don't find the same in winter. Also, you can't get comfy in the, or in the summer, rather, you can't get comfy in the summer. It just doesn't happen. So like even now in my makeshift bedroom studio, it's a nice 61 degrees. I got a sweatshirt on, like I, and I know what the temperature is in the room you're at.

It's definitely

[00:19:13] Tony Arsenal: older than 61 degrees probably.

[00:19:15] Jesse Schwamb: It's, it's around that temp probably. So I, I know that it's like easy. I think it's just like easy to pick on the cold. But I think they, you know, of course there's something that people say about like, the fire is purifying. I don't know. I always kind of think that way about the cold.

It's, it's special. And I think there's something about leaning in and appreciating it, both like the joy then and, uh, appreciating the blessing of having someplace warm to be, but also this amazing juxtaposition of just being out in temperatures that cuts you a little bit, ah, I don't know. There's something about that.

I don't get that with the, the heat, but What's that? You, have I gone too far? Am I not?

[00:19:52] Tony Arsenal: Mm-hmm. No, I think there's a sweet spot. Like, I think, I think there's a such thing as too cold. Um, you know, I think, uh,

[00:20:01] Jesse Schwamb: what, what's too cold? Fahrenheit style. Sorry. We, we can, we'll, we'll do the conversion of Celsius.

[00:20:06] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.

I'm not gonna do the conversion of Celsius. This is a America. Um, I think probably like. 15 to 20 degrees is the sweet spot. I think if you get much colder than that for me. Oh, that's, I

[00:20:19] Jesse Schwamb: thought you'd say

[00:20:20] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. I think if you get much colder than that, for me it, it becomes, and maybe this is 'cause I have kids and so like, it, it becomes a whole different game to try to get kids into the car when it's, it's colder than 15 degrees.

Um, you can get a, you know, you can get away with like rushing the kid out to the car and just wrapping the jacket around them. Something people who don't have toddlers don't realize is you can't put your toddler in the car seat in a winter jacket. So like, it gets to be cumbersome.

[00:20:49] Jesse Schwamb: Gotta do costume change.

[00:20:51] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And I feel like, I feel like if it gets much colder than that, then the joy of being outside, I guess my, my threshold and maybe. It probably isn't a, like an a specific temperature, but when I take the dog out at night, if I feel like I have to put a jacket on to do that, that's when it's too cold. And, but I agree with you in principle that there's something refreshing about standing outside when it's crisp and cold.

Not just cool, but cold. Something about the, the, uh, the alertness of your nerves and like there's something that just like wakes you up in a really nice way, um, that you don't get in the heat. I feel like in. Converse heat. So like, I think maybe the equivalent of 15 degrees, if I was talking about when it's too hot, would be like 90, 95 degrees would feel the same, like, would be on the same end, end of the spectrum.

You don't walk out and go, ah, it's 95. Like, you walk out and you feel oppressed. You feel like it's heavy on your shoulders. It drains you of your life. Um, I feel like it's cold. There's a sweet spot. There is no sweet spot where like, it, it gets so hot that you feel great about it. So I think, I feel you in pr in principle.

I'm, I'm not sure, I guess maybe you have a, maybe there's a sweet spot for you two. Like I don't think you're, we're not talking like negative 60 degrees air temperature or something like that, but yeah, I think I'm with you.

[00:22:16] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, but I, but I am, I think talking about a little bit of like cold face slapping, if you know what I mean.

Yeah. I mean there's, there's something famously about the heats. Where you, once you get out in it, there's not much you can do if it is oppressive. Right. So, you know, if you're going out, you're exercising or just out and about. It's not like you can like strip down entirely and even then you might not be comfortable.

Right. Obviously where the cold is a little bit different. Hopefully you can prepare yourself. You can put a more clothes. I, I'm with you. I don't know what that temperature would be for me, but it's just funny around here. It's every, every kind of interaction ends with a stay warm out there. Will you? Yeah.

Like, I guess we do that in the heat as well, but I'm, sometimes I'm like, no, it's, it's okay to feel what you feel and it's nice to have, uh, the seasons of cold. I don't know if I would like living in a place where it didn't get at least a little bit once in a while, shockingly cold because there's so beautiful about that shock.

So I think 15 is fine. I'm with you. That's maybe the right for all of our like continental listeners, those out in the rest of the world that's negative nine degrees Celsius. So, you know, take that for what you will. But it's, it's okay. I guess I'm saying it's okay. We can, we can just be like, you know what, it's cold, but it might be good for us.

Does that make sense? Yeah.

[00:23:24] Tony Arsenal: I think on a, a totally different temperature related bit here, I think we should stop saying, uh, that it is 20 degrees and instead we should be, we should say, every time it's 12 degrees below the temperature at which saline freezes at sea level or whatever the, whatever the weird calculation is that makes 32 degrees freezing instead of zero degrees.

I joke about like this being America, but like the Fahrenheit scale is cr is whacked out and it's wild, crazy. It makes no sense. It's wild. It, it makes sense in the laboratory setting that it was created in, but like, it just doesn't make any sense from like a, just a logical human beings think this way.

Um, perspective. Um, but I think I'm with you. I think, I guess maybe where I'm, where my head is at is like. When it's like negative 10 degrees, and I'm not talking about windchill actually, I think negative 10 degrees air temperature when there's no wind is probably not all that uncomfortable. Like, really?

Right. Like I

agree.

I feel like I would not feel totally uncomfortable just walking out to the mail. Like I wouldn't put a jacket on to run out to the mailbox and grab the mail if it was 10 degrees below zero and there was no wind. Um, but whatever it is, like when you're at a low temperature and then you come back up a little bit, your body's like, ah, like you can tolerate that.

I feel like when it's 105 degrees and then it drops to 95 degrees, there's not that same effect where you're like,

[00:24:48] Jesse Schwamb: yes.

[00:24:49] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, yeah. Like,

[00:24:50] Jesse Schwamb: right.

[00:24:50] Tony Arsenal: That, that, my favorite part of the season, this is like super nerdy total, like Northerner Yankee talk. My favorite part of the season is that first like. We had it in January this year, but like that first period of time where it pops back up into the mid twenties mm-hmm.

And everybody is like wearing shorts and a t-shirt for like two days. Yeah.

Right.

Um, or like people are driving all with their windows rolled down on their car because it like, or that's like when you open your house to get all the like winter stale air out. Um, that's my favorite part of the season.

Maybe that's what, maybe that's what I'm talking about with you, but I think I'm with you. I think the cold is refreshing in a really kind of organic way. It wakes you up in a good way.

[00:25:30] Jesse Schwamb: I agree. I think maybe it's okay and maybe we need it. And I've thought about that a lot. Isn't it strange, but also endearing that the way that we feel, the temperature, the way that we actually experience it, is relative to the season.

Yeah. Because you know, you might have, like, if it was like 61, 62 in your house and like the dead of August, you'd be like, man. So refreshing. But in winter you're prone to say, Ooh, there's a little nip in the air, you know? And it's like, what? Same temperature. It's just that like you're oriented, all of your experience is oriented right now to your seasonal reality and circumstances.

So I think I love temperature change. So I'm, I, and I also would say maybe it's just growing up in New England, I much prefer the cold than the heat. I mean,

[00:26:10] Tony Arsenal: yeah,

[00:26:10] Jesse Schwamb: oppressive heat where it feels like you're inside a dog's mouth to me is in no way preferable or has hegemony over going outside in the the minus 10.

So,

[00:26:21] Tony Arsenal: yeah, I

[00:26:22] Jesse Schwamb: agree. Enjoy it. Loved ones. Wherever you're at it, just enjoy it.

[00:26:26] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. I, I also think, um, it's funny how you talk about temperature being relative or exp experience of temperature being relative because, you know, we're, it's winter we're trying to save money. Like fuel oils is crazy expensive in New England and

Right.

Um, all of the fuel oil in this area comes from Canada. So there's all the tariff stuff going on. And so I'm trying to keep my, you know, trying to keep our thermostat down. And so I have it set to like 63 at night, which is lower than I, I think I would've set it in the past. And I remember like the other day, I was up in the middle of the night with one of the kids and I was like, oh man, it's so cold in here.

And I looked at the, the thermostat and I was like, wait a second. Like, I set my air conditioner to 63 in the summer,

right.

And I keep my room that, like, I keep our bedroom that cool, right? It's a small bedroom. We have a nice air conditioner, so we keep that a room that cool. But in the winter that feels cold and I'm trying to turn up the heat.

There's, there's something theological there too. Something about not being satisfied. Maybe there's like a, there's a, an argument. For dissatisfaction, like CS Lewis style, there's an argument that because we can never be comfortable with the temperature, there must therefore be a heaven where temperatures is perfect or something like that.

[00:27:35] Jesse Schwamb: I actually that's, that's pretty good. That's better than I always could come up with. I was gonna go the direction of like the rare jewel cont contentment, like, there

[00:27:42] Tony Arsenal: you go.

[00:27:42] Jesse Schwamb: Puritan style. Obviously that's the best segment We're gonna get into our conclusion of yes, chapter 15 and this rice baked parable of lostness.

[00:27:54] Returning to the Parable of the Lost Son

[00:27:54] Jesse Schwamb: And we're, we're gonna talk about the father, so I'm just gonna take us right there. Ready? Everybody. We're speeding ahead. We're just gonna go right to verse 18 because I think it's good for us to put in our ears again just the end of this parable so we can see and hear this interaction of the father with his two sons.

And I'm gonna advance us to the point where the first son has gone away. He squandered all his living, he comes to himself and so then he has this little conversation while he's, uh, you know, presumably with the pigs looking at the pods that they eat, that he wishes he could as well. He says, I'll rise up and go to my father and I'll say to him, father, I've sinned against heaven and before you, I'm no longer worthy to be called your son.

Make me as one of your hired. So he rose up and he came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion and ran and embraced him and kissed him. And the son said to him, father, I've sinned against heaven and before you, I'm no longer worthy to be called your son.

But the father said to his slaves, quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet and bring the fat in calf and slaughter it and let us eat and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and has come to life again. He was lost and he's been found and then began to celebrate.

Now, his older son was in the field and when he came and approached the house, he heard music at dancing and summoning one of the servants. He began inquiring what these things could be, and he said to him, your brother has come and your father has killed the fatten calf because he has received him back safe in sound.

But he became angry and was not wanting to go in, and his father came out and began pleading with him. He answered and said to his father, look, for so many years I've been serving you and never have I neglected a command of yours. And yet never have you given me a young goat so that I might celebrate with my friends.

But when this son of yours came who has devoured your wealth with prostitutes, you killed the fat and calf for him. And he said to him, child, you are always with me. And all that is mine is yours. But what we had to celebrate and rejoice for this brother of yours was dead and is alive and was lost and has been found.

[00:29:58] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I think it's important, you know, we're kind of gonna jump in here and really focus on the father and we made, we made the point last week that this. This parable really probably is about the older son. Like the punchline of this parable is about the older son because it's a parable that's told in response to the Pharisees to shame them for acting like the older brother.

So even though the, the rest of the parable exists that the main point of the parable is probably found in. This lack of rejoicing over the lost brother who was, uh, found. And that lines up with the main point of the other two parables in this sort of triplet of parables is the rejoicing element, right?

There's the, there's the, the shepherd who rejoices when he finds his lost sheep, the angels in heaven that rejoice, you know, they're not part of the parable, but it's explained that the angels will rejoice. And then this woman who rejoices over her lost coin and invites all her friends over to do the same.

Um, the flip side of this, yes, the parable has a lot to say about how. The father rejoices how he throws this big feast, but the, the, the punchline of this parable is that the older son refused to come in. And so it's, it's painting this picture of like, there's these two parables where the only logical answer is to rejoice, and then there's this parable where it seems like, yeah, the only logical answer is to rejoice.

And then there's this totally irrational, insane reaction of the, the older brother to not rejoice, but all of that said. That only functions like that. Punchline only works if you also understand the setup. I don't know if you've ever had this, this happen, Jesse, where you're, you're trying to tell a story that has kind of a funny punchline or you're, you're telling a sort of a narrative joke and either you miss something in the setup or the, the person doesn't get something in the setup and so the joke just doesn't land, or the story just doesn't have the, the impact it's supposed to.

And I think like that's kind of where we're at on this is, yes, we've talked about the punchline and that is the punchline, but we can't fully understand the impact. The insanity of the older brother's response.

[00:32:12] Jesse Schwamb: Right.

[00:32:12] Tony Arsenal: Um, if we don't understand the, just the grace that the father shows both to the younger son, which we've talked a lot about, and to the older son, which we've also talked a lot about, but understanding the nature of the father beyond just like his response, I think is, is really vital.

And that's where we're gonna go tonight.

[00:32:29] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I think that's really good setup. It, there's this posture of the father, this watchful mercy, which is for both of his children, for the son, that's away. Also for the son that's at home, he notices them both, one coming, one missing. And so I find it interesting that, like you said, the father's compassion is described even before the first son finishes his rehearsed confession.

And it's clear that we're seeing that God's mercy is, is not hired by repentance.

[00:32:56] The Father's Compassion and Divine Initiative

[00:32:56] Jesse Schwamb: Repentance is like this appointed pathway by which mercy is received and it's extended to both of the children in a way. And so in the first, the father's seeing and running really portrays clearly for us that divine initiative, not that the son is contributing some kind of merit, but that the father's already disposed to welcome.

The returning sinner, and he is already disposed to welcome his angry older son into the fray. It's almost a warning as if to say, you know, similar maybe to what Cain receives, like sin is crouching at the door, a desires to master over you. Don't go this way. Don't do this thing. Come and enjoy, come and celebrate.

But you're right, the whole setup is in the father's posture. And then of course, like coheres with that wider biblical portrait of God's fatherly compassion, that he's a father that shows compassion to his children, that the ones he loves, he shows, or the ones that love him. Rather, he shows grace and blessing and mercy to a thousand generations while only punishing the next several contiguous generations that he's a loved us with an everlasting kind of lavish love.

So there's this emphasis right from the beginning, which I think is setting up that punchline that the father's compassion is free. It's prior, it's rooted in God's character, not in the sinner's performance here and, and they're both sinners. That's clear. So you're right. It, it's almost like maybe we should see it coming.

Yeah, maybe they should have seen it coming. But that is all necessary to get to the end result where you get the like, you know, big kind of gotcha moment.

[00:34:18] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And I think too, um. We rightfully look at the response of the father to the younger son's return, um, as sort of like the locust classicist of the father's character here, right.

The, the, the seminal moment in this, this interaction. But we, we, um, and we're even doing this tonight, right? We started at verse 18, but we start to see glimpses of the father's character earlier in the parable.

[00:34:44] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.

[00:34:45] Tony Arsenal: Right? Of course.

[00:34:45] The Parable's Punchline: The Older Son's Response

[00:34:45] Tony Arsenal: So first of all, the parable is, is, um, the punchline of the parable is about the older son and the older son's response.

But the parable starts out saying there was a man. The man is not one of the sons. There was a man who had two sons.

[00:34:59] Jesse Schwamb: Right?

[00:34:59] Tony Arsenal: So this is a parable that starts by describing this father as one who had two sons.

[00:35:04] The Father's Grace and the Younger Son's Request

[00:35:04] Tony Arsenal: And then we see in the response of the father to this, this younger son's request already, there's an act of grace.

Right. And you know, we've kind of made this comment that there's, this is sort of like a, a lesson in systematic theology, um, in soteriology baked into this parable. But like the fact that the father doesn't reject the son's request to divide up the inheritance early. Um, I I, I've read a lot of commentaries on this that would say like the request of the son was so audacious and disrespectful, that like in Israel, it would've been appropriate for this father to bring him up basically on like capital charges and have him executed, right?

Like, like Leviticus style and. I don't know whether that's all true or not. Like there's a lot of speculation that has to happen with those kinds of cultural, um, extrapolations. But in either case, this father would've been well within his rights. Um, and again, like we've, we've made the point, like this isn't necessarily a lesson in great parenting.

Um, but the father would've been well within his rights to laugh the sun out of his room and be like, of course I'm not dividing up your inheritance. Like, I'm still living, I still need this to live on. Uh, but he doesn't, he grants the request and, and this is a little bit of speculation, I think, but what motivation would there be to grant this request other than loving his son and not wanting to have this relational disruption?

Right. This father.

[00:36:36] The Cost of the Younger Son's Departure

[00:36:36] Tony Arsenal: Starts off this parable by granting this son's request at, at great cost to himself, right? We've, we've mentioned it in the inheritance laws. Um, the older son gets two thirds of the estate, and so the younger son or the older son gets a double portion. So if we assume that there are only two sons, which it says he had two sons, we, we don't have any reason to think there's more in view, then the younger son is leaving with a full third of this, of this man's estate, um, and has to be a third of the estate that he can take with him.

So whatever he's granted in this request to, to give him his property, he's taking all, you know, at least a third of this man's liquid assets, probably more than a third of his liquid assets. Um, with him, that's a huge, huge amount of, uh, of your own personal, uh, assets that go with you that he, and he just does it.

He just does it. And I think this paints a picture for us of.

[00:37:36] Theological Implications of the Father's Actions

[00:37:36] Tony Arsenal: Again, we have to be theologically careful. God does not suffer loss when we depart from him. Right? It doesn't affect God in a, in a absolute proper sense when s