Advent and Christmas in Reformed Theology: Discretionary, Not Obligatory

Can Reformed Christians celebrate Christmas and Advent without compromising their theological convictions? In this foundational episode, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb tackle one of the most divisive seasonal debates in Reformed circles. Drawing from the Westminster Confession of Faith, historical Presbyterian practice, and biblical principles, they demonstrate that celebrating Christ's birth is neither mandatory nor forbidden—it's a matter of Christian liberty. The hosts explore the purpose and structure of Advent, defend the use of liturgical calendars as spiritual tools, and address common objections to Christmas observance. Whether you're skeptical of "holy days" or looking to deepen your seasonal devotion, this episode offers a balanced, historically grounded perspective on how to honor Christ during the Christmas season without falling into either legalism or license.

Key Takeaways

• Advent is discretionary, not obligatory: The Westminster Confession of Faith (21.5) explicitly permits God's people to set aside special days for thanksgiving and worship, as demonstrated in Esther 9:20-22, but does not require them.
• The Reformed tradition has room for Christmas celebration: Historical evidence shows that members of the Westminster Assembly affirmed that celebrating Christmas, Good Friday, and Ascension Day was "wholly discretionary" and consistent with Presbyterian practice.
• Advent serves as spiritual preparation: The four-week season before Christmas provides a structured rhythm for believers to reflect on both Christ's first coming and His promised return, combining penitence with joy.
• The church calendar mirrors redemptive history: A well-ordered liturgical year moves believers through the gospel story annually—from Advent's anticipation, through Lent's suffering, to Easter's resurrection, and Pentecost's empowerment.
• Christ's active obedience deserves celebration: Advent allows focused reflection on Christ's righteous life lived under the law, not just His atoning death—a dimension of His work often overshadowed in evangelical worship.
• Christmas falls on cultural and biblical tension: The season requires believers to resist both the sentimentality of consumer culture and the legalism of those who would forbid celebration, making space for Christ where He is often crowded out.
• Charity is essential in secondary matters: Whether a church meets on Christmas Day, observes Advent, or refrains from special seasonal emphasis, Christians must extend grace to those whose consciences differ on these non-essential practices.

Explanatory Paragraphs The Westminster Confession and Special Days

The Westminster Confession of Faith, chapter 21, section 5, provides the theological foundation for Reformed Christians to celebrate special days like Christmas without violating the regulative principle of worship. The Confession states that "beside religious oaths, vows, solemn fasting and thanksgiving upon special occasions, which are in their several times and seasons to be used in a holy and religious manner," believers may set apart specific times for worship. The divines cite Esther 9:20-22 as a biblical precedent, where Mordecai established the feast of Purim to commemorate God's deliverance of the Jews—a recurring celebration not commanded in Mosaic law but instituted by God's people under providential guidance. This establishes that the church has authority to designate days of thanksgiving and worship beyond the weekly Lord's Day, provided these observances remain voluntary rather than binding on the conscience. The crucial distinction lies between days of "discretionary" observance (which are permissible) and "obligatory" holy days (which would violate sola scriptura by adding to God's requirements).

The Liturgical Calendar as a Discipleship Tool

The church calendar functions as a pedagogical and devotional framework that guides believers through the entire narrative of redemption each year. Beginning with Advent's anticipation, moving through the incarnation at Christmas, progressing to Lent's focus on Christ's suffering, culminating in Easter's resurrection triumph, and advancing through Pentecost's empowerment by the Spirit, the liturgical year creates a rhythm that prevents the gospel from becoming abstract theology. This cyclical pattern mirrors the weekly Sabbath principle—God has designed His people for rhythms of work and worship, anticipation and fulfillment. The Advent season specifically addresses a pastoral need in contemporary Christianity: believers often rush immediately to celebrate Christ's birth without adequately reflecting on the world's brokenness that necessitated His coming. By creating space for "penitence and joy" together, Advent trains Christians to taste suffering before sweetness, to acknowledge their desperate need before celebrating the provision, and to long for Christ's return while commemorating His arrival.

Active Obedience: The Often-Forgotten Half of Christ's Work

Reformed theology distinguishes between Christ's "passive obedience" (His suffering and death) and His "active obedience" (His perfect life of righteousness). While evangelicals frequently focus on Good Friday and the cross, they often neglect to celebrate the thirty-three years of flawless obedience that Christ rendered to the Father under the law. This active obedience is essential to our salvation—Christ didn't merely die in our place; He lived the righteous life we could not live, earning the positive merit that is imputed to believers. Advent provides a unique opportunity to focus specifically on the incarnation and the beginning of Christ's human life of obedience. By reflecting on Christ's birth, His submission to the law through circumcision, His childhood obedience to His parents, and His perfect fulfillment of all righteousness, believers gain a fuller appreciation for the complete work of Christ. This emphasis prevents an imbalanced soteriology that reduces salvation to forgiveness alone, neglecting the positive righteousness that qualifies us for eternal life.

Memorable Quotes

"Jesus doesn't want to fix your heart. He wants to give you a new one."

"Christ didn't come into a bright, cheery place. He came into a very spiritually dark and socially dark and dangerous world, under a bloodthirsty ruler who would murder a bunch of babies just to stay in power."

"The people who want to look at the Westminster Confession and want to say that we can't ever celebrate even in a religious manner anything besides the Lord's Day—I don't think they're reading this clearly."

Full Episode Transcript [00:00:00] Introduction and Christmas Season Chat

[00:00:00] Tony Arsenal: Hey brother.

[00:00:00] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. What's going on, Tony?

[00:00:03] Tony Arsenal: Not much. Not much. How about you?

[00:00:06] Jesse Schwamb: Not much. Just soaking in the new Christmas season, it seems like. Yes.

Everything changes so fast and now there's Christmas music everywhere.

[00:00:15] Tony Arsenal: Well, we've been listening to Christmas music since like April. Your sister is a fiend with the stuff like we started watching Christmas movies, or she started watching Christmas movies and I started reading books while she watched Christmas movies about a month and a half ago, and I'm not even exaggerating.

[00:00:32] Jesse Schwamb: I totally believe that. Because, yeah, the, so the Christmas music thing is like, and we'll talk about this later, but this is like a, such a strange thing because it comes and goes like so quickly, you know, like after Thanksgiving it's just the radio start to play it. And then on like the 26th it's like gone.

Like it never even happened.

[00:00:48] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. I, I remember when I was a kid, like listening to Christmas music on the radio and I really felt like it actually persisted a lot longer after Christmas. And I don't know if it actually did or if it was just like. By the time I got to Christmas, I was so sick of the Christmas music that I was ready for it to be done.

[00:01:05] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I have no idea. It, it's just the strangest thing. I think about that every year. It's like the strangest thing. It's like it's been disavowed on the 26th and we just go on with our lives, which maybe is a commentary on our culture, but either way.

[00:01:16] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, maybe.

[00:01:17] The Theory of Early Christmas Decorations

[00:01:17] Tony Arsenal: I actually have a theory and I, I read something online that kind of sparked this.

I have a theory about why Christmas decorations and stuff have been going up earlier and earlier every year it seems like. It seems like, I don't remember them going up as early as they do now, but I think the rise of artificial Christmas trees actually brought this about, right? So like before you had natural Christmas trees and artificial ones didn't exist.

So even like places that sold decorations, they couldn't really bring 'em out 'cause nobody would buy them until they got their tree up. But like now that you can buy a Christmas tree and you can put it up whenever you want, they can start putting out decorations in like October and people are like, oh yeah, I need to get started on my decorating.

[00:01:54] Jesse Schwamb: So you're basically saying it's like a conspiracy of fake furs?

[00:02:00] Tony Arsenal: Um, I don't think it was like a conspiracy. I just think like they can do it now. Like people can decorate with their, like they can make their house look like Christmas, legitimately look like Christmas in July if they want. We just couldn't do that.

I mean, I guess you could, but you wouldn't have a tree at Christmas time 'cause it'd be all dead and rotten,

[00:02:15] Jesse Schwamb: which is like the central focal piece of most Christmas holiday decorating is the tree. So

[00:02:20] Tony Arsenal: yeah, the evergreen stuff,

[00:02:21] Jesse Schwamb: I'm done with that. That's like a unique theory.

[00:02:24] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I think there's probably something to it.

So if I, if I cared more, I could probably do a PhD at some school on like the history of Christmas trees and the transition of holiday decoration to earlier in the season.

[00:02:36] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that sounds like some serious like sociological jam right there. Like somebody could really get after that hard. So if somebody's out there listen and wants to write a paper on that, I would really be interested to read it.

[00:02:45] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah, that would be pretty sweet.

[00:02:47] Jesse Schwamb: Footnote us.

[00:02:49] Tony Arsenal: Yes. So what are we talking about tonight, Jesse?

[00:02:50] Discussion on Advent and Its Significance

[00:02:50] Jesse Schwamb: So, because we're entering this wonderful season of anticipating the birth of Christ, I thought it would be be great to talk a little bit about Advent, what it is and why certain people celebrate it, what it encapsulates.

And you know, there's a lot of people, a lot of different churches have different traditions and advent, even like the word advent calendar, like for instance, my. Wife and I were having a conversation recently, and for her, like the word advent meant tiny pieces of chocolate embedded in a calendar. So even like the word is familiar, but trying to understand and discern what it actually means and why it's important, I just thought that'd be an interesting conversation.

[00:03:30] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I don't even remember. I don't think I even had heard of Advent until well after I became a Christian. Um, which is weird because I became a Christian in a Lutheran church and we never did Advent. It was just really strange. It just never was a thing that we really did.

[00:03:47] Jesse Schwamb: That's interesting. Shout out to Lutherans.

[00:03:49] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Well, and the Lutherans definitely celebrate Advent. Yeah, for sure. So what, what is Advent for our listeners that maybe don't know.

[00:03:56] Jesse Schwamb: So traditionally in the church calendar, advent was set aside as the four weeks prior to Christmas itself. And advent literally means, you know, a coming or anticipation or longing.

So it was this time that the church set aside to purposely be in thought and a meditation about the longing for the savior. And then in the same way, basically the 12 days after Christmas, which is often called Christmas tide. Is the real celebration of the actual coming of the savior. So there's lots of implications.

And there's four separate weeks. And oftentimes it, the central piece of its representation, at least of Advent, is that there'll be this advent wreath with four different candles. And the colors are sometimes different, but usually they're. Three purple candles and one pink candle, and they all represent something of significance that is really to focus your mind for that particular week on meditating in preparation for advent.

So that's kind of the, I don't know, the thumb thumbnail sketch. Is that fair?

[00:04:55] Tony Arsenal: That is fair.

[00:04:56] Reformed Perspectives on Celebrating Christmas

[00:04:56] Tony Arsenal: So before we jump into the topic, I do wanna acknowledge, um, especially since this is a self-consciously reformed podcast, um, there are a large portion of the reformed, uh, community that. That would say we shouldn't do any sort of Christmas or Advent celebration.

Um, I don't know that I would say it's a huge population, but historically speaking, the Reformed have rejected, um, things like Christmas and celebrating Advent. Um, not entirely, but um, especially sort of in the Scottish, uh, lines of thinking. And um, I wanna acknowledge that. So there are gonna be people who disagree with the fact that we're even talking about this

[00:05:34] Jesse Schwamb: for sure.

[00:05:35] Tony Arsenal: But. Before we get in, I do want to just kind of give a little bit of a disclaimer and maybe a little bit of an apologetic from a reform perspective. 'cause I think one thing that happens this time of year, and I know I see it happening online all the time, is there's kind of like the pro Christmas camp and there's the anti Christmas camp and they go at each other, like they're Trump supporters and Hillary supporters and they just beat on each other online.

Um, and the anti Christmas camp kind of wants to say like, well, if you're really reformed then you won't celebrate Christmas. Um, and that just isn't. It just isn't the case. So, um, just taking a quick look. Um, you know, the, the reform tend to look at these confessional documents that were written in the, um, 16th and 17th century and kind of the, the culmination of reform theology in confessional form as the Westminster Confession of Faith.

And we've talked about that before. And, uh, in chapter 21. Uh, item five. Uh, it talks about the different ways that people, um, that, that God's people worship him. And it's a little bit weird to pick one article out of the middle and even then just part of that article, but I want to do that for a second. Um, so it talks about the different ways that people ordinarily, uh, worship God through prayer preaching, um, the administration of the sacraments.

Et cetera. And then it says, beside religious oaths, vows, solemn fasting and thanksgiving upon special occasions, which are in there several times in seasons to be used in a holy and religious manner. So it's saying that beside the ordinary worship of God, the, the regular weekend and week out lord's day celebration, um, and then the, the daily rhythm of prayer and, um, worship that all Christians should participate in.

There's also these special times that the church can declare. Um, and they, they, you know, the Westminster Confession has these footnotes, um, where they, they cite scripture and it's not necessarily a direct proof text, but it's more like, if you're wanting to know where we got this idea, this is where you start exegetically.

And one of the texts that they cite here is, uh, outta Esther. Um, chapter nine, starting in verse 20. It says, Mordecai recorded these things. Sent a letter to all the Jews who were in all the provinces of King Aha, both near and far. Obliging them to keep the 14th day of the month aar, and also the 15th day of the same year by year as the days on which the Jews got relief from their enemies.

And as the month. That had been turned for them from sorrow into gladness and from mourning into a holiday that they should make them days of feasting and gladness days for sending gifts of food to one another and gifts to the poor. So what the, the passage here is saying is that the, you know, the Jews were saved from this plot, um, by the, you know, the bravery of Esther and by sort of the, um, strategic mind of Mordecai.

Obviously God's providence is working in that. And Mordecai sends out this letter and he obligates all of the Jews to celebrate this feast, um, which is for Thanksgiving. It's made the ESV translates as a holiday. I don't know if that's a great translation. Literally it's just like a good day. So they celebrate it, but they celebrate it year after year on the same day.

Um, and the point of this, and the reason that the Westminster Divines, um, cite this passage is they're saying that God's people have the authority. Particularly the people in leadership in God's church have the authority to set aside days of Thanksgiving to celebrate things that happen in, um, in God's redemptive plan, but also just in history.

So last week we talked about Thanksgiving and we had, we actually had this exact same discussion, but the recording issue, um, deleted it. Um, but Thanksgiving was one of those examples. It was set aside by God's people in order to celebrate that. And then later when George Washington made it an official.

Uh, national Holiday. He actually cited the same passage in some of his letters to point out that God's people have been doing this throughout history. So, um, I think the people who wanna look at the Westminster Confession and want to say that we can't ever celebrate even in a religious manner. Um. We can't ever celebrate anything besides the Lord's Day.

I don't think they're reading this clearly. And, um, just to kind of put some, some more teeth to that and then we can move on is, um, I want to just read a quote here. It's from the Common Book of Prayer, which was amended by Presbyterian ministers in 1661, and it says, the devout recognition with appropriate services on the weekdays, commonly called Christmas Day.

Good Friday. An Ascension day is in accordance with Presbyterian and Catholic usage, lowercase C Catholic. Their addition to the ordinary service is left wholly discretionary. And um, it was signed by several men. Um, and many of those went on to be members of the Westminster Assembly 15 years later. So we have people who were on the Westminster Assembly.

Who put their name down saying we could celebrate Christmas Day, we could celebrate Good Friday, and we could celebrate Ascension Day. So, um, I really think just historically speaking, we don't, you don't have a foot to stand on to say that the entire Westminster assembly was opposed to celebrating Christmas.

It just doesn't work. We have. Record of them saying it's wholly discretionary. Now where it becomes a problem, and I think, um, we would agree with this, is when it becomes obligatory,

[00:10:47] Jesse Schwamb: right?

[00:10:47] Tony Arsenal: When the church says you have to celebrate this specific thing that's not instituted in scripture and you have to do it on a certain day and you have to do certain things, um, or you're somehow.

Not keeping God's law, that's when it becomes a problem when you set it aside as a holy day that's especially holy, apart from the Lord's day. Um, that, that I think does become a problem. Now, there's an argument to make that can you really worship God, um, in a way on a particular day and not be setting it aside as a holy day.

I, I guess that's an argument that might come up. Um, but we can kind of talk about that a different week if we, you know, if we get some feedback that that's something people want to explore a little bit more in the Facebook group.

[00:11:27] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, there's definitely strong opinions on either side. There's all, there's good historical ground to stand on and I, I think you're probably like me in this that I do respect and like to hear.

The conviction that people have for both sides of whether or not to, it's basically the keep Christ out of Christmas or keep Christ in Christmas. And it's interesting that there are strong, and I think very cogent, wonderful pastoral reasons for both those. But it really flows from both groups have hearts that are really concerned with loving Jesus and honoring him appropriately.

So I think at the end of the day, that's the most important thing.

[00:12:03] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, absolutely. And this year I think too, um, the tensions are running even a little bit higher. Yes. Because Christmas falls on the Lord's Day. On the Lord's Day. Mm-hmm. So, um, you know, people, every church, um, handles Christmas and what to do on a, you know, on a year where Christmas falls on the Lord's Day a little bit differently.

Um, you know, different congregations make different decisions and sometimes they make good decisions. Sometimes they make bad decisions. Um, and it's not, it's not really my place to comment on an individual church's decision as to whether that was a good thing to do or not to do. Um, you know, obviously there are some things that are just completely out of bounds.

Um, you know, if you turn your Christmas service into just a chance to give out candy canes and Santas preaching from the pulpit, I don't think that's a great idea. Um, but you know, if your church has made a decision that maybe, um, it's just not, uh, not reasonable to meet, um, because there's not gonna be a congregation to meet on the Lord's Day 'cause everyone's traveling.

Um, you know, and saying, well, the pastor doesn't need to preach to an empty room. Um, that, that's okay. I think, um, I think every church has to make the decision that they're gonna make. And, um, I really think that. People who wanna sort of stand back and make judgements on other congregations for those decisions need to kind of reevaluate whether that's, you know, really the best use of their time.

[00:13:20] Jesse Schwamb: Sure. We definitely need a lot more charity there with each other.

[00:13:23] Tony Arsenal: Right.

[00:13:24] Jesse Schwamb: And I, my question would be, what kind of events would have to take place such that Santa would be preaching from the pulpit?

[00:13:33] Tony Arsenal: I don't know. Well, I mean, Santa probably did preach from the pulpit in real life. Um,

[00:13:37] Jesse Schwamb: true.

[00:13:38] Tony Arsenal: You know, he was a bishop.

So

[00:13:40] Jesse Schwamb: true.

[00:13:40] Tony Arsenal: He probably did a little bit of preaching here and there between punching heretics and giving out candy and toys. But, um, we'll, we can talk about St. Nicholas maybe next week. We'll, we'll, oh, we

[00:13:49] Jesse Schwamb: def we definitely should snip Saint Nicholas. Yeah, we could run a train on that right now. I've got all kinds of things to say about that, but

[00:13:55] Tony Arsenal: I like, I like to say that St.

Nicholas is the patron saint of discernment bloggers.

[00:14:00] Jesse Schwamb: I like that.

[00:14:01] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, there. So we'll, uh, we'll see how that goes.

[00:14:04] Jesse Schwamb: There should be, oh, this is gonna be controversial. There should be medals that just depict him punching people in the face.

[00:14:11] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Well, spoiler alert, that probably didn't actually happen.

[00:14:14] Jesse Schwamb: I know.

Which is

[00:14:15] Tony Arsenal: sad.

[00:14:16] Jesse Schwamb: Then nonetheless, it would still be great.

[00:14:18] Tony Arsenal: It would be good. Let's, let's get on that for next year. We can make millions.

[00:14:21] Jesse Schwamb: I love that. Also, I love that we're spoiler alerting history.

[00:14:25] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, that's true. We are spoiler alerting history. It's all good.

[00:14:30] Jesse Schwamb: We are the most UpToDate podcast you will ever listen to.

[00:14:33] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Just in case, like somehow there's like a time traveler listening to this and they haven't experienced that yet. You know, like, yeah, whatever.

[00:14:42] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. Like podcast and stuff. I just

[00:14:43] Tony Arsenal: jump to super nerd level ultra.

[00:14:46] Jesse Schwamb: That's okay. That's a, that's our style.

[00:14:48] The Importance of Liturgical Calendar and Advent

[00:14:48] Jesse Schwamb: So the, one of the reasons why I like Advent is it does bring about like a nice, it draws your mind into a nice, wonderful rhythm.

That stands on history, and at least in my opinion, it to me seems like an extension of some of that wonderful cadence that God gives us, where we're going out and working and on the Lord's day, we're coming in and we're worshiping, and we're fellowshipping and we're resting, and then we're going back out.

So I love that the calendar is there, really, as you said, as a tool to help renew our minds. Give us a little bit of focus because things will just pass, at least for me. Things will just pass by. And to get too sucked into unwittingly just all the sentimentality of the season. So I do love that this is a call to slow down, uh, to stop, to meditate and metabolize in preparation for Christmas, which is something that I think we all can just be honest, like at least may struggle to do, no matter whatever responsibilities or obligations we have of the season.

[00:15:45] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, um, you know, just sort of thinking about the way a liturgical calendar functions, um, you know, I listened to a podcast with, um, Peter Lightheart and James Jordan, not because I think that they have. Um, a lot of great things to say and some of their theology is really terrible, so we'll just get that outta the way.

But one of the things that I heard them say that I thought really was insightful is that the, the church calendar with its lectionary, which lectionary is just a sort of a list of readings and the church, um, churches that use lectionary read. Those readings out loud throughout the year, and so you're exposed to the whole scriptures over the course of a year or a three year cycle.

And they pointed out that like the lectionary is set up to coincide with the church calendar in such a way where you're kind of progressing through the year and you get to sort of that midpoint or that early part of the year and you hit Lent and you hit Easter and you kind of, you come down. The same way that the Old Testament does, you kind of come down into judgment and then you come up into the resurrection.

And then as you progress from there through Pentecost and the coming of the Holy Spirit, you kind of come into this waiting period before Christmas, which is historically supposed to be not just waiting for the birth of Christ and reflecting on that, but waiting for Christ's second coming. So the whole church calendar, um, the liturgical calendar is designed to sort of move you through.

Redemptive history each year, which I think is something that's really valuable because a lot of Christians don't really think through that cycle. They don't live in a cycle of understanding the scriptural, um, the scriptural kind of, uh, cadence of. Reflecting on the death and resurrection of Christ and sort of being brought down and then brought back up by the gospel and then progressing towards our ultimate goal.

And I just think that that's a really helpful, um, structure for Christians to have. And this season of Advent is so great for that because you really are, I don't know about you, I get, I don't think I like have. Formally have that seasonal affective disorder thing. But I work in a hospital and I work in the basement, so it's dark when I get to work, and then I go down in the basement and then it's dark when I get outta work and I drive home in the dark and I go to sleep in the dark and I wake up in the dark and I'm downstairs in the basement for most of the day when it's sunny.

And so in the middle of the winter here, we're heading towards the darkest time of the year. But we're starting to celebrate what will be the most glorious light that there is. And I think for me that's just really an encouraging kind of a thing to, to remember during this part of the year.

[00:18:12] Jesse Schwamb: It is so good to have something like the liturgical calendar, which is a tool for us to rehearse that big picture of the gospel.

I love the way that you said that, that that's impactful for me because you know, like Advent is essentially like the beginning of the liturgical calendar and it's a wonderful time and space. To be a little bit more austere than we normally would be during like the cultural Christmas season. So what I mean by that is like generally it was, or at least historically, it was kind of focused on as a time of co-mingling, penit and joy.

So this idea that we should lean into suffering a little bit more, that we should recognize that things aren't just tolerable in our world and that there's a tremendous amount of injustice. And sin and selfishness, and we are at the top of that pile and that we are groaning, godly. For a Messiah and a redeemer.

So, and it, like you said, it's both this wonderful combination of looking back. So just as it's echoing the Israelites, looking back to their time of being in bondage and being released and they were looking for the Messiah, we are looking at the first coming with a great amount of joy, understanding that the promise is secure because of that, but then also turning our eyes to the future and saying, you know, come Lord Jesus, like we recognize that people are suffering and there's.

Disease and we are, you know, so much destruction and what we desperately want is to celebrate your arrival. So what advent, at least like the, these weeks have meant for me is that I think actually when we lean into that way more than we normally do, because there's a sentimentality and emotionalism about Christmas that, you know, good cheer toward men and peace on earth and, and all of that is fine, except that if we just go past.

The longing, like the season of really aching and pining for savior because things are wrong and we are wrongheaded. It makes tasting the joy of Christ's birth and knowing that the second coming is just around the corner. So much sweeter because we've tasted the bitterness of suffering, which still exists in our world.

So I, I think if we just pass it by too quickly, it really makes the joy of Christmas a little bit more meager than it should be.

[00:20:29] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And, um, just real quick, I had a thought and I want to get it out there before I forget about it. Totally unrelated. If you're a parent and you're listening to this podcast and you have your kids around, it's possible that Jesse and I may spoil some Christmas surprises for you.

So you may wanna turn the podcast off. Uh, when your kids are around and if you're a parent, you know exactly what I mean. So, um, but yeah, I think everything that you just said about, um, the way that Advent should impact us, um, I think it's just really, you know, I, I kind of re, I don't wanna say resent, but I kind of like lament.

Lament is a better term. I lament that I didn't have this cycle in my, my Christian life before. Um, you know, and, and I think. Humans are built. Um, you know, when you think about the Sabbath and you think about that cyclical nature to the way that God has built us and has, um, defined how we relate to him, we are built for cycles.

We're built for this kind of repetitive, um, existence, and we will continue to have this repetitive existence in eternity. It's not like this, um, this seven day cycle is gonna end, right? The Sabbath is built into the fabric of creation and the new creation. Um, presumably will have the same kind of cycle.

And I think for me, like having this time during the, the lead into Christmas to really just, um, lock into, um, the idea that Christ came to live for me, um, to come and to live the righteous life that I could not, um. Without necessarily spending as much time focusing on the death of Christ to come. Um, I think sometimes, um, sometimes evangelicals and especially reformed Christians, um, even though I think reformed Christians should be the last people to do it.

We forget to celebrate that Christ had an active obedience. Um, and we get so caught up celebrating that Christ had a passive obedience. And what I mean by that, um, have we talked about active imp passive obedience yet? No, not yet. I'm sure that, I think we might have, but, um, the, the act of obedience of Christ is Christ positive righteousness.

It's him obeying and fulfilling the law. It's him coming and being obedient to the father's will and doing things that causes the father's delight. Um, and then that delight is then granted to us an imputation. Um, the, the passive obedience is the things that Christ suffers, um, passive as in like suffering, not passive as in like doesn't act and things happen to him.

Um, passive related to the word passion, um, or pathos is. Those, that's the passive aspect and that's what we talk about and what we look at when we think about Lent and, um, good Friday, but to take time to reflect on the life of Christ, which started with his birth, the human life of Christ, which started with his, um, conception and birth and everything that we talk about and celebrate during Advent and going to Christmas.

Um, it's a really helpful time of year for me to not rush to the cross. To be able to sort of, um, rest in the active obedience of Christ as well as, um, you know, looking forward to the passive obedience of Christ.

[00:23:35] Jesse Schwamb: That's well said, that that's what makes this season so beautiful, and just the fact that we can continue all our lifelong.

To learn into, to look into that, to learn a little bit more about it. And it's just like so deeply and beautifully layered. I mean, you just peel back a layer and you can appreciate more and more as, as God gives us, uh, measured and discernment and understanding and see that. I mean, you're right. A lot of times we go straight to the death of Christ, which is no doubt important.

But unless that righteous life was lived under the law and in perfect obedience in such a way that it's not Jesus, like relying on his godly attributes to get him through right, but he's relying on the spirit the same Holy Spirit that's given to us to move forward through temptation. And to perform perfect obedience that makes that sacrifice so precious.

But it's a, it is a life lived in perfect devotion to God. You know, the second Adam, obviously what, what it was always meant to be. Here we have Jesus doing that perfectly.

[00:24:36] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, I think, uh, you know, we can kind of move on to some of those questions we had in the Facebook group. Um, 'cause you know, we got, we got a good, uh, three more weeks of advent here and we're gonna have lots of discussion about it.

So I don't wanna exhaust all of it tonight. Um, but yeah, I just, I love this time of year, um, even though like. The days are getting shorter and it's getting colder, and I'm, you know, I'm looking forward and seeing negative temperatures and things on the horizon. And, um, to just think about what Christ did in coming to earth, to, to enter into humiliation, um, and then live under the law and to be exalted on our behalf is just, you know, I, I don't know.

I don't know what more beautiful theology there could be.

[00:25:24] Jesse Schwamb: The, it's glorious. And I was just reading some John Owen recently and he brought to my mind something that I hadn't really considered in the way he articulated it. And that was he was saying, you've gotta imagine as best you can, that God is not only infinitely greater, but infinitely separate from us.

Yeah, and he of course is a being that is not contingent. You know, we are created, he's more real than even we are because he is the one that is self existent and we have been created by him. And so he was making this argument that if you think about this infinite space and whatever way you can conceptualize in your mind, it is beyond the belief that an infinite being would take any interest in something finite just by way of the separation of these two things in every conceivable way.

So I was just really kind of. I just got up from that and, and wanted to like, run around the neighborhood because I, I just didn't even know what to do with How amazing just that thought is that infiniteness not just contained in a finite being, but the sheer interest of God, the continued interest of God through Jesus Christ is just phenomenal.

[00:26:26] Reflecting on the Prophecies of Christ

[00:26:26] Jesse Schwamb: So we should probably say that briefly, that this first week of advent is generally dedicated to her focusing on the prophecy of Christ. Just the, yeah. The promises contained in the scripture. And, uh, what I love about that is that starts like, so here's what I love about this. So God and his infinite wisdom and his working out his mighty plan of salvation by his outstretched arm.

I love that the solution happens right after the problem, which is right in Genesis three, which I love. Yeah, so that first, that first promise. The first promise of. That things will be made right, which is three 15. I'll put enmity between you and the woman. In between your offspring and her offspring, he shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel.

I love that On the very day that everything falls apart, so to speak, there is God providing the plan. And it's that kind of looking back and mourning the fact that we have disobeyed God and that we have, um. Been his enemies, that we are rebellious, that God did not forget us or even leave us for a second from the very beginning, uh, but was always working out his plan.

I just love that.

[00:27:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and, and you know, the prophecies of Christ, they continue through the whole Bible. So, um, you know, at our church through Advent we're doing, um, kind of portraits of, of advents. We're looking at different people who were important kind of in the time leading up to Christ. Um, and we looked at John the Baptist today, and, um, one of the things we looked at was.

Um, the, the song or the, the prophecy that Zacharia speaks, um, when his tongue is loose, when he, you know, when John is born and, um. Uh, the, the angel actually, when he comes to talk to him, is what we were looking at too, and he, he says that John will turn the hearts of Israel back to God. And that's a prophecy in, uh, Deuteronomy 30, I think.

Where, you know, it says that once, once you've sinned and you've been cast out of God's presence, that when you, uh, when he turns his heart back or when he turns your heart back to him, um. That, that that will be kind of the beginning of the restoration of all things. And so even to think that like people apart from.

You know, Christ himself were included in this prophecy. Um, John the Baptist is included in this prophecy. Um, you know, Mary is included in this prophecy. Um, the wise men are included in this prophecy. There's all of these different themes, prophetic themes, that are weaving their way through the Old Testament, and they come to this culmination.

You know, in a sleepy town in Bethlehem, in a busy season during a census, um, when there's, you know, we can, we can talk about like no room at the end and all that stuff, and that'll be an interesting conversation, but when you boil it all down, there was no space for Mary and Joseph where there should have been space for them.

Just like in most cases, there's no space for Jesus in our lives when there should be space. So I think, you know, just to, not to get too preachy here, but I think one of the things we, we all really need to focus on during Christmas is not letting the chaos that sort of attends this season. Um, you know, I used to work retail and so it was like nonstop after Black Friday until like a week and a half after Christmas, and then again for like a week after, um, after Christmas because of return season.

And it was like nothing happened except. Being all consumed with work. Um, but it seems like even in other, other industries and other sectors, it seems like this part of the year is just inherently busier. So, you know, Christ can get very crowded out of our lives when we add all this busyness and this chaos.

So taking time to recognize, um, not to get like allegorical, I don't wanna do that, but to recognize that like part of the Christmas story in the, in the gospels is that there isn't room for Jesus where there should be room. Um, you know, when you actually look at the language, the, the upper or the, the, um, no room in the inn really probably means like no room in the guest room.

There was no guest room for Mary and Joseph. They were probably going to Joseph's family because other family was coming into town. There was no space for them in the guest room that should have been set aside for them. And the person who should have gotten that should have been the pregnant woman, but there was no space by the time they got there.

And so, you know, when we, you know, we talk about like Christmas hymns that say like, prepare him room. Um, prepare room in your hearts for Christ. Um, you know, this season is about anticipating Christ, coming and making space in your life where there should be space and not, not crowding Jesus out. If you wanna talk about putting the Christ back into Christmas, that's what we need to do, right?

It's not about like making sure there's little crosses on Starbucks cups or whatever kind of stupid controversy there is this year about the Starbucks Cup. Um, it's about. Preparing our hearts, preparing our lives, and really focusing in on the fact that Christ became incarnate for our sake, for us and our salvation.

He became man, you know, as the nice creed says,

[00:31:21] Jesse Schwamb: and that's why I love Advent so much because it does help us to make that space. And I think whether or not you do that corporately in your church or if you want to do that in your own home, I highly encourage you. You can just Google it. There's tons of wonderful resources, lots of people, uh, trustworthy people are writing, you know, devotionals for this period.

But I would just, uh, yeah, encourage you to make this a time of really leaning in, in a kind of austere way and considering the suffering of the world and what it means to long for a savior not to just think things are tolerable. And even though we've had the birth of Christ, that that provides us with an immense blessing.

But more than that, we are still longing as before for the Lord to come. So look ahead, look behind. Yeah. And then rejoice. So yeah. It's gonna be a great season.

[00:32:07] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And that, I mean, that reminds me too, and then we can, we can talk about some more song lyrics here is, um, Christ came into the world in probably one of the darkest points.

In Israel's history, right? We've got Israel abandoning in many ways due to the effects of hellenization. We have Israel abandoning the things that make her unique. Um, you know, not to get crass, but we have accounts in the first century of, of procedures to undo your circums. So you could look more Greek.

Um, you know, that's crazy. We joke about like, well, why were there pigs in Israel with the, the account of the, um, the swine rushing into the river? Well, there were pigs in Israel because people weren't keeping kosher. And there was a market for it. Um, so Christ didn't come into, um, a bright, cheery place. He came into a very spiritually dark and socially dark and dangerous world, um, under, you know, a blood thirsty ruler who would murder a bunch of babies just to stay in power.

[00:33:07] Jesse Schwamb: Right.

[00:33:07] Tony Arsenal: Um, you know, I guess we could go off into a whole different kind of political commentary about Planned Parenthood at that point, wouldn't we?

[00:33:13] Jesse Schwamb: For sure. But you're right. The bottom line is when Christ comes in the world, he brings disruption.

[00:33:17] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.

[00:33:18] Jesse Schwamb: And everywhere he goes, you see that disruption. This is what is so beautiful among many things about the gospel to me and about pondering it this season is our world primarily is con concerned with rehabilitation.

Like everywhere you look. There's somebody trying to market something to you to rehabilitate or improve some part of your life. And especially like this whole, the whole self-help genre. And I've often thought like, what if myself is awful? Yeah. Like I don't want my self trying to help myself.

[00:33:46] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.

[00:33:46] Jesse Schwamb: So I love that rather than rehabilitation, Jesus is concerned with regeneration.

Right. And that is perhaps the most life-changing thing. Of course. Uh, that can come out of him being obedient and dying on the cross. Yeah. And being risen again.

[00:34:02] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesus doesn't want to fix your heart. He wants to give you a new one.

[00:34:05] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly. And that's like, man, this is getting really cheesy now, but that's like the best Christmas gift ever.

Sorry. It it just came out. It, it had, it's

[00:34:14] Tony Arsenal: all good.

[00:34:15] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.

[00:34:15] Tony Arsenal: It's all good. God bless us everyone.

[00:34:18] Jesse Schwamb: I know. We need like a, a tiny Tim, uh, like quote in there somewhere.

[00:34:22] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, how about this? That's my tiny Tim quote is just the coughing.

[00:34:27] Jesse Schwamb: So good. That's tiny. Tim with the black lung.

[00:34:30] Tiny Tim's Condition and Chimney Sweeps

[00:34:30] Jesse Schwamb: What did tiny Tim even have?

[00:34:31] Tony Arsenal: I don't know.

He had a short leg. Maybe. Maybe. I don't, you know. Well it was London, right? Right. They were in London, so maybe he was a chimney sweep. They used to send little kids. The little kids would go up the chimney, but that doesn't really work if he was like also crippled.

[00:34:45] Jesse Schwamb: Right. That's

it.

[00:34:46] Tony Arsenal: Probably wasn't running up the chimneys.

Yeah.

[00:34:47] Jesse Schwamb: It's kind of interesting, but there always is the cough, so you're right on about that. That was, yeah,

[00:34:51] Tony Arsenal: whatever it was. Stellar money could fix it though.

[00:34:53] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, for sure.

[00:34:54] Tony Arsenal: Yeah,

[00:34:55] Jesse Schwamb: for sure. So for the

[00:34:56] Tony Arsenal: go ahead,

[00:34:57] Strangest Christmas Song Lyrics

[00:34:57] Jesse Schwamb: for this particular podcast, we asked the question. What is the strangest lyric in a Christmas song?

Or Carol, do you have one in particular that comes to mind?

[00:35:08] Tony Arsenal: Well, mine, mine was taken in the, the, uh, thread, so I'll save it for later. What about you?

[00:35:14] Jesse Schwamb: I, so here's the thing. So many good responses to this question, which makes you understand or at least appreciate a little bit more how weird a lot of Christmas songs are.

Yes. Like not Christmas hymns, and even some carols are totally on point, but there's some weird stuff that we sing at this time of year. That have just become like straight, traditional or nostalgic.

[00:35:34] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.

[00:35:34] Taxonomy of Christmas Songs

[00:35:34] Tony Arsenal: So I have this taxonomy of Christmas songs and it used to just be two categories, but I've added a third this year.

So there's like Christmas hymns or like, I guess we could say like, like. Uh, Christmas worship songs. So like, you might get something that's not a hymn technically, but a, a worship song that has to do with Christmas somehow. And then there's kind of like the happy sappy spirit of the season, family celebration kinds of songs.

And then there's just the really stupid, weird songs that just don't, they're just don't, they don't make any sense and don't play them. So that's