People I (Mostly) Admire

He’s a world-renowned magician who’s been performing since he was seven years old. But Joshua Jay is also an author, toy maker, and consultant for film and television. Steve Levitt talks to him about how magicians construct tricks, how Joshua’s academic studies of magic have influenced Levitt’s life, and whether Jesus might have been a magician. This episode originally aired on February 19th, 2021. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

He’s a former World Bank economist who became a prolific journalist and the author of one of Steve Levitt’s favorite books, The Undercover Economist. Tim Harford lives in England, where he’s made it his mission to help the public understand statistics. In their conversation, Steve gives Tim some feedback on his new book, The Data Detective, contemplates if it’s possible to tell great stories with data, and Tim explains how making mistakes can be fun. This episode originally aired on February 12th, 2021. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

He has been a lawyer, an instructor at the F.B.I. Academy, the owner of a frozen-yogurt chain, and a winner of the TV show Survivor. Today, Kwon works at Google, but things haven’t always come easily for him. Steve Levitt talks to Kwon about his debilitating childhood anxieties, his compulsion to choose the hardest path in life, and how Kwon used game theory to stage a victory on Survivor. This episode originally aired in two parts on January 29th and February 5th, 2021 and was updated on April 4th, 2025. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

She is one of the best basketball players ever. She’s won multiple championships, including four Olympic gold medals and four W.N.B.A. titles — the most recent in 2020, just before turning 40. She also helped negotiate a landmark contract for the league’s players. Sue Bird tells Steve Levitt the untold truth about clutch players, her thoughts about the pay gap between male and female athletes, and what it means to be part of the first gay couple in ESPN’s The Body Issue. This episode originally aired on January 22nd, 2021. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

For many economists — Steve Levitt included — there is perhaps no greater inspiration than Paul Romer, the now-Nobel laureate who at a young age redefined the discipline and has maintained a passion for introducing new ideas to staid debates. Levitt finds out what makes Romer a serial “quitter,” why you can’t manufacture big ideas, and what happened when Romer tried to start a charter city. This episode originally aired on January 8th, 2021. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

She might not be a household name, but Suzanne Gluck is one of the most powerful people in the book industry. Her slush pile is a key entry point to the biggest publishers in the U.S., and the authors she represents have sold more than 100 million books worldwide. Steve Levitt talks with Gluck — his own agent — about negotiating a deal, advising prospective authors, and convincing him to co-write Freakonomics. This episode originally aired on December 25th, 2020. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

He’s been an engineer, a surgeon, a management consultant, and even a boxer. Now he’s a physician focused on the science of longevity. Peter Attia talks with Steve Levitt about the problem with immortality, what’s missing from our Covid response, and why nicotine is underrated. This episode originally aired on November 27th, 2020. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

She showed up late and confused to her first silent retreat, but Caverly Morgan eventually trained for eight years in silence at a Zen monastery. Now her mindfulness-education program Peace in Schools is part of the high-school curriculum in Portland, Ore. Steve Levitt finds out what daily life is like in a silent monastery, why teens find it easier than adults to learn meditation, and what happy children can teach their parents. This episode originally aired on November 13th, 2020. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

He graduated high school at 14, and by 23 had several graduate degrees and was a research assistant with Stephen Hawking. He became the first chief technology officer at Microsoft (without having ever studied computer science) and then started a company focused on big questions — like how to provide the world with clean energy and how to optimize pizza-baking. Find out what makes Nathan Myhrvold’s fertile mind tick, and which of his many ideas Steve Levitt likes the most. This episode originally aired on October 30th, 2020. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

She was the sixteenth employee at Google — a company once based in her garage — and now she's the C.E.O. of its best-known subsidiary, YouTube. But despite being one of the most powerful people in the tech industry, few outside of Silicon Valley know the name Susan Wojcicki. Levitt talks with her about the early days of Google, how her background in economics shapes the company's products, and why YouTube's success has created a range of unforeseen and serious issues. This episode originally aired on October 16th, 2020. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It was only in his late twenties that America’s favorite brainiac began to seriously embrace his love of trivia. Now he holds the “Greatest of All Time” title on Jeopardy! Steve Levitt digs into how he trained for the show, what it means to have a "geographic memory," and why we lie to our children. This episode originally aired on October 2nd, 2020. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The dean of Yale’s School of Management grew up in a small village in Guyana. During his unlikely journey, he has researched video-gaming habits, communicable disease, and why so many African-Americans haven’t had the kind of success he’s had. Steve Levitt talks to Charles about his parents’ encouragement, his love of Sports Illustrated, and how he talks to his American-born kids about the complicated history of Blackness in America. This episode originally aired on September 18th, 2020. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

She’s best known for playing neurobiologist Amy Farrah Fowler on The Big Bang Theory, but the award-winning actress has a rich life outside of her acting career, as a teacher, mother — and a real-life neuroscientist. Steve Levitt tries to learn more about this one-time academic and Hollywood non-conformist, who is both very similar to him and also quite his opposite. This episode originally aired on September 4th, 2020. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

By cataloging the steady march of human progress, the Harvard psychologist and linguist has become a very public intellectual. But the self-declared “polite Canadian” has managed to enrage people on opposite ends of the political spectrum. Steve Levitt tries to understand why. This episode originally aired on August 21st, 2020. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In the last episode of the podcast, Stephen Dubner turns the microphone on Steve Levitt. They talk about Levitt’s favorite — and least favorite — moments from the show’s five-year run, his quest to reform education, and his next podcasting gig. SOURCES:Stephen Dubner, host of Freakonomics Radio, co-author of Freakonomics books. RESOURCES:"How to Help Kids Succeed," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2025)."Feeling Sound and Hearing Color," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024)."Richard Dawkins on God, Genes, and Murderous Baby Cuckoos," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024)."Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Some Advice for You," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024)."Werner Herzog Thinks His Films Are a Distraction," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2023)."Drawing from Life (and Death)," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2023)."Yuval Noah Harari Thinks Life is Meaningless and Amazing," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022)."Is This the Future of High School?," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022)."Does Death Have to Be a Death Sentence?," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022)."Sal Khan: 'If It Works for 15 Cousins, It Could Work for a Billion People.'" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021)."Jared Diamond on the Downfall of Civilizations — and His Optimism for Ours," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021)."Amanda & Lily Levitt Share What It’s Like to be Steve’s Daughters," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021)."How Rahm Emanuel Would Run the World," by Freakonomics Radio (2020).The Levitt Lab. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The late Robert Solow was a giant among economists. When he was 98 years old he told Steve about cracking German codes in World War II, why it’s so hard to reduce inequality, and how his field lost its way. SOURCES:Robert Solow, professor emeritus of economics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. RESOURCES:"Secrecy, Cigars, and a Venetian Wedding: How the P.G.A. Tour Made a Deal with Saudi Arabia," by Alan Blinder, Lauren Hirsch, Kevin Draper, and Kate Kelly (The New York Times, 2023)."Global Assessment of Environmental-Economic Accounting and Supporting Statistics: 2020," by United Nations Committee of Experts on Environmental-Economic Accounting (2021)."Where Modern Macroeconomics Went Wrong," by Joseph E. Stiglitz (Oxford Review of Economic Policy, 2015)."As Inequality Grows, So Does the Political Influence of the Rich," (The Economist, 2018)."Big Bang Financial Deregulation and Income Inequality: Evidence From U.K. and Japan," by Daniel Waldenstrom and Julia Tanndal (VoxEU, 2016)."The Fall And Rise Of U.S. Inequality, In 2 Graphs," by Quoctrung Bui (Planet Money, 2015).Nobel Prize Biographical, by Robert Solow (1987).Principles of Political Economy, by John Stuart Mills (1848). EXTRAS:"Is Economic Growth the Wrong Goal? (Update)," by Freakonomics Radio (2023). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Michael Crow is the president of Arizona State University, which U.S. News & World Report has called the most innovative school in the country for 11 years running. He tells Steve about why higher education needs to change, and how A.S.U. is leading the way. Plus: Steve has an announcement about the podcast. SOURCES:Michael Crow, president of Arizona State University. RESOURCES:The Fifth Wave: The Evolution of American Higher Education, by Michael Crow (2020)."College Admissions Shocker!," by Frank Bruni (New York Times, 2016).New American University.Dreamscape Learn.University Innovation Alliance.FYI.AI. EXTRAS:"Chemistry, Evolved," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2025)."America’s Math Curriculum Doesn’t Add Up," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021).Data Science 4 Everyone. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Michael Greenstone knows it’s corny, but he wants to make the world a better place — by tracking the impact of air quality, developing pollution markets in India, and … starting a podcast, which Steve says proves he’s over the hill. SOURCES:Michael Greenstone, professor of economics at the University of Chicago. RESOURCES:"New evidence on the impact of sustained exposure to air pollution on life expectancy from China's Huai River Policy," by Avraham Ebenstein, Maoyong Fan, Michael Greenstone, Guojun He, and Maigeng Zhou (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2017)."Evidence on the impact of sustained exposure to air pollution on life expectancy from China's Huai River policy," by Yuyu Chen, Avraham Ebenstein, Michael Greenstone, and Hongbin Li (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2013).Shocked, podcast.Air Quality Life Index (AQLI).Emissions Market Accelerator.Tropical Forest Forever Facility (TFFF). EXTRAS:"This Is Your Brain on Pollution," by Freakonomics Radio (2021)."The Simple Economics of Saving the Amazon Rainforest", by People I (Mostly) Admire (2020). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Suleika Jaouad was diagnosed with cancer at 22. She made her illness the subject of a New York Times column and a memoir, Between Two Kingdoms. She and Steve talk about what it means to live with a potentially fatal illness, how to talk to people who've gone through a tragedy, and ways to encourage medical donations. SOURCES:Suleika Jaouad, author. RESOURCES:The Book of Alchemy: A Creative Practice for an Inspired Life, by Suleika Jaouad (2025).The Alchemy Journal, by Suleika Jaouad (2025).“The Art of Survival,” by Jennifer Senior (The Atlantic, 2024).American Symphony, film by Matthew Heineman (2023).Between Two Kingdoms: A Memoir of a Life Interrupted, by Suleika Jaouad (2021).“Max Ritvo, Poet Who Chronicled His Cancer Fight, Dies at 25,” by John Schwartz (The New York Times, 2016).“Life, Interrupted,” column by Suleika Jaouad (The New York Times, 2012-2015).The Fault in Our Stars, by John Green (2012).Bright-sided: How Positive Thinking Is Undermining America, by Barbara Ehrenreich (2009).The Isolation Journals, newsletter by Suleika Jaouad. EXTRAS:“John Green’s Reluctant Rocket Ship Ride,” by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022).“Does Death Have to Be a Death Sentence?” by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Physicist and former pop star Brian Cox tells Steve about discovering the Higgs boson, having a number-one hit, and why particle physics research will almost certainly not create a black hole that destroys all life on earth. SOURCES:Brian Cox, physicist at the University of Manchester. RESOURCES:Black Holes: The Key to Understanding the Universe, by Brian Cox and Jeff Forshaw (2023)."Higgs10: The Higgs boson and the rise of the Standard Model of Particle Physics in the 1970s," by John Ellis (CERN, 2022).Out of Silence, by Dare (2004)."WW scattering at the LHC," by J. M. Butterworth, Brian Cox, and J. R. Forshaw (CERN, 2002).A Brief History of Time, by Stephen Hawking (1998)."Gravitational Collapse and Space-Time Singularities," by Roger Penrose (Physical Review Letters, 1965)."The Value of Science," by Richard P. Feynman (Internet Archive, 1955)."Brian Cox Live." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Irving Finkel is an expert on cuneiform — the oldest known writing system. He tells Steve the amazing story of how an ancient clay tablet unlocked the truth about Noah’s ark (and got Finkel in trouble with some Christians). SOURCES:Irving Finkel, curator in the department of the Middle East at the British Museum. RESOURCES:"How to write cuneiform," by Irving Finkel (The British Museum, 2021)."PBS Nova: Secrets of Noah's Ark," (2015).The Ark Before Noah: Decoding the Story of the Flood, by Irving Finkel (2014)."Epic Hero," by David Damrosch (Smithsonian Magazine, 2007)."How Egyptian hieroglyphs were decoded, a timeline to decipherment," (The British Museum). EXTRAS:"Jane Goodall, Who Chronicled the Social Lives of Chimps, Dies at 91," by Keith Schneider (New York Times, 2025)."Jane Goodall Changed the Way We See Animals. She’s Not Done." by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022)."D:Ream - Things Can Only Get Better," (1993). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.