335: Taylor Swift, But Just Briefly

Overtired 335

[00:00:00] Christina:

[00:00:02] Christina: Welcome back, everyone. It’s me, Christina Warren. You’re listening to Overtired. Yeah, that’s right. I’m back. We’re actually doing an Overtired episode with all three of us, which means I’m here with Brett Terpstra and Jeff Severns Gunsell. Hello, boys. How are you?

[00:00:19] Jeff: Man, one of those people is me.

[00:00:21] Brett: it’s been like a month since people have heard your voice.

[00:00:24] Christina: I know. I know. And it’s been like a month since I’ve heard either of your voices. So, and it feels like even longer, uh, because of the various things that… I’ve been going through this summer, so

[00:00:34] Mental Health Corner, Part I

[00:00:34] Brett: Feels like, feels like we had a summer vacation.

[00:00:37] Christina: It does, it does. And, and uh, maybe we should do like a little bit of a round robin on that.

[00:00:42] Christina: Like, what did you do on your summer vacation

[00:00:44] Jeff: it’s funny, my,

[00:00:45] Christina: health corner?

[00:00:45] Jeff: my kids go back to school on Tuesday, so it feels very

[00:00:48] Christina: because uh, Labor Day,

[00:00:49] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:00:51] Brett: Um, yeah, let’s, let’s do that. Let’s, uh, let’s kick off a mental health corner that includes what did you do this summer? [00:01:00] Which for some of us might be the last two weeks, but, uh, uh, Jeff, do you want to start?

[00:01:06] Jeff: Yeah, actually, mine is directly, it’s not exactly what did I do this summer, but for my oldest son who’s going into senior year, it was the last summer break of, you know, potentially him living in our home. And, uh.

[00:01:20] Christina: Last one is a family unit.

[00:01:21] Jeff: Yeah, and, and that’s, that hits in a new way or in a new context like all the time and it’s really hard for me right now, like, we are a super tight family and like loose family, but like tight, like we joke with each other, we have good shared bits, we, I think I would say that both of our sons have like a real sense of freedom to bring up any kind of topic and not worry about us freaking out and, um, And we have a dynamic between the four of us.

[00:01:50] Jeff: My youngest is, um, is 14. And it’s a balance, right? Like, it’s a balance of these four personalities that have, like, developed even as, you know, we’ve developed [00:02:00] as parents, right? Like, and, and we’re at a point that we love, like, we don’t, neither, we were talking about this this morning, I see people with babies, and even though I’m, like, pre grieving my oldest son leaving, I Do not at all look at people with babies and go like, Oh, if only I could turn the clock back.

[00:02:15] Jeff: Because like, I don’t want to, I loved, I loved being a parent at every single stage, being a father or dad or whatever at every single stage. But there, there’s never been a point when I didn’t love the current stage enough that I didn’t wish for another stage. I wished for when they were more snuggly, for sure.

[00:02:32] Jeff: They might, like, come into our bed or something, that’d be super weird now, so it doesn’t make any sense to wish for it now, um, but uh, but yeah, like, I’m, you know, he’s looking at schools out of state, um, and that, and I get that, man, I get it, I fuckin shot off like a rocket when I almost finished high school and it was over, um, and uh, so I understand, you know, like, that’s just like a part of…

[00:02:57] Jeff: In our culture, at least, like, definitely in American [00:03:00] culture, that’s a part, that’s a ritual of growing up, is you go away, way away, um, and he’s looking at that, he’s also looking at schools closer, but like, um, my actual, like, my mental health corner topic today was exactly this, it’s like, it’s like trying to get out of the trap of pre grieving something that hasn’t happened yet, even though…

[00:03:21] Jeff: It’s not like it’s, there’s that thing of like, don’t, don’t wallow in something that may not happen. Like this is definitely happening. Um, and, and it’s so great for him because it feels like an end for us, but it’s like the beginning of everything for him. And I, I have such a different perspective now on.

[00:03:42] Jeff: For instance, the way that when I was like 22, I went to war zones. Like, I now know that 22, a child who’s 22 is not going to feel like an old child, right? Like, he’ll definitely feel like someone who’s growing into adulthood, whatever. But like, I now don’t understand how my parents… Stood [00:04:00] that. Um, so anyway, like, I was dealing with this in therapy this week.

[00:04:03] Jeff: I was like, I don’t want to spend the next year getting sad every time I think about him leaving, or every time he talks about being excited about going to school in Los Angeles if he gets accepted and stuff like that. Like, I don’t want that to be weighed down or burdened by my own, like, kind of sorrow, because I know that he’ll have some too, and, and it doesn’t help us, like, and it doesn’t…

[00:04:23] Jeff: And it takes me away from really just continuing to enjoy what I know will be this last year with him. And, uh, and then also just the, this isn’t about grieving, but this is my last bit about this, is also just realize that my 14 year old, like, we’ll have three years of him in the house where we’re a three person family, like, practically in the house, right?

[00:04:46] Jeff: Definitely a four person family. Um, And I, I only realized that recently, and I, I’m like, I have no idea what that dynamic’s gonna be like. He’s gonna lose, he, he and his brother are so close, they’ve never, I’ve never [00:05:00] seen them fight, I’ve never heard them fight. And no matter what we do, if they’re with us, they are behind us, walking wherever we’re walking, just like, bullshitting with each other.

[00:05:10] Jeff: And, and so he’s also gonna lose, like, And, and like, yeah, like a role model, for sure. Um, and so I’m just in this space of like, holy shit, I didn’t realize how Destabilizing, this would be inside me, even a year before it happens, and so I’m really trying to work on not wallowing in grieving something that hasn’t happened.

[00:05:32] Jeff: Especially when the grieving exists because I love what we have. So it’s like, just be there, be there!

[00:05:41] Christina: be there, but I think it’s also okay for you to acknowledge that you’re going to be grieving and there’s going to be a loss and to be going through those emotions proactively so that it doesn’t just hit you in May. You know, or, or, or even worse, like next August. Like next August is gonna be really hard, but you don’t want to only start dealing with it then.

[00:05:58] Christina: I think it’s smart for you to be [00:06:00] dealing with it now. I think what’s exciting though for your youngest son, like as close as he is with his brother, and there will be that loss and like that, you know, fear and whatnot. But this is also gonna be an opportunity for him to figure out who he is without his older brother.

[00:06:10] Jeff: exactly. Yeah, I’m excited for that. I think the part, you’re right about kind of preparing and that’s definitely a thing. The part that seems untenable is that I’ve had a couple weeks of like, I just practically start crying whenever I think about it indefinitely if I’m talking about it. And so I’m like, okay, that’s too intense right now.

[00:06:30] Jeff: I need to recognize what that is and like, be like, that’s actually amazing. Um, but then like, like you said, like, figure out a way of kind of holding the reality but not Uh, being sort of just stricken with intense emotion every time I think about it, you know? Because here’s the thing, if he goes to some college somewhere far away, and he calls us after week one, and then also month one and month two, and he’s like, I am so happy here.

[00:06:55] Jeff: I will not feel that sadness. I will just be glad that he’s happy. Now, if [00:07:00] he’s super miserable, that’s its own thing, but I’m definitely not thinking about that. That’s a bridge I’ll cross another time. So anyway, that’s my, that’s my

[00:07:07] Brett: Have you, have you studied, uh, attachment theory at all?

[00:07:11] Jeff: Yeah, I mean, I’ve, insomuch as I have attachment issues,

[00:07:16] Brett: Yeah, same, same. You’re not alone. Um, do you, it sounds like you actually have a pretty secure attachment to him. Um, it doesn’t seem like an anxious attachment.

[00:07:28] Jeff: and vice versa, I think not to speak for him, but I really think that’s the case. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s good. That’s a nice, that’s a nice element to bring in. It’s like, my therapist kind of got to that too. It’s like, you guys have a great relationship. That’s Yeah. Thanks. That’s a lot more than you may realize right

[00:07:44] Brett: yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:07:47] Jeff: Yeah. Anyway, the other thing is though, he, both of our boys, somehow we got them like a few years ago to each have a post dinner responsibility. One, one cleans up and puts away all the food and wipes the counters down. The other [00:08:00] one loads the dishwasher, although the other one is 17 and does that at one in the morning.

[00:08:04] Jeff: Um,

[00:08:04] Christina: Hey, but he still gets it done.

[00:08:05] Jeff: but yeah, my wife and I were just like, we’re going to

[00:08:08] Christina: We’re gonna have to, we’re gonna have to clean up. Ha!

[00:08:13] Brett: You’re losing your free labor.

[00:08:15] Jeff: the more selfish, less emotional, uh, uh, like, pre regret. So anyway, that’s me.

[00:08:20] Brett: That’s just an adjustment. That’s not an emotional, an emotional loss. Um, Christina, do you want a Rochambeau for who goes next?

[00:08:30] Jeff: Ooh, Rochambeau.

[00:08:30] Christina: Uh, yeah.

[00:08:33] Brett: All right, you ready? One, two, on three. One, two,

[00:08:37] Christina: two, three.

[00:08:38] Brett: god damn it. I, we both drew, we both had scissors. All right, try again. One, two, three. You go, you go,

[00:08:51] Christina: Alright, I’ll go. Alright.

[00:08:53] Jeff: We

[00:08:53] Christina: Okay, so, um, what, how have I been, my mental health corner update slash what I’ve done on my summer vacation. They’re [00:09:00] kind of the same thing. Um, so as I was talking last time, um, trying a new, um, antidepressants, that is actually why I was not on the last pod and I was very sorry to, to miss our friend Jay, but, um, I, um, woke up and I was like having withdrawal and other issues.

[00:09:17] Christina: I was just like, I can’t do it. I’m out. Um, things seem to be going better. This week has been a lot better than past weeks. Um, so I think that I’m now through all of the… Withdrawal hoops, and I think even some of the side effect hoops, we will see. But so far, it is, this was the first week, like I would say basically from like Tuesday on, where I’ve felt better.

[00:09:40] Christina: There was a period of time where I was not, like, the depression was better, but I was definitely not. feeling like myself and I was like, I’m going to have to go off of this stuff. This is not going to work. But now I’m kind of hopeful that that’s not the case. So, um, I’ve got another, I have an appointment with my doctor, I think on like [00:10:00] the, the 11th or the 12th.

[00:10:01] Christina: Um, let me check. I think it’s Apple Day. Um. No, it is the 13th. It is the 13th. Um, also, uh, side brief tangent, this is gonna get us cancelled, or not us, this is gonna get me cancelled, but, um,

[00:10:17] Jeff: take me with you!

[00:10:18] Christina: it’s, it’s been in the last four or five years or so, but like 9 11 is finally funny, and, and, and I, I keep like wanting to know, like, and it, and look, as like the generation who like, it was my friends who like went off to war and died, like, I feel like I can, I feel like, Older millennials and New Yorkers are the people who are most impacted, and so I feel like all of us know that it’s, it’s sort of funny now, like, obviously the event is not, but like, we can like poke fun at various aspects of it, like the memes.

[00:10:46] Christina: I finally feel like it’s great to use the memes, but I keep wondering, like, when is it going to be safe for Apple to schedule an event on 9 11? Like, like when is that gonna be a thing where it won’t be just like [00:11:00] this taboo thing? Cause like if you, if you, if, cause like if you had, if you had been on D Day, like nobody would give a shit, right?

[00:11:06] Christina: Like people wouldn’t be like, whatever, right? But like, so when is it gonna be okay for someone to have like a big press event on 9 11?

[00:11:12] Brett: I feel like you’re right, like, the statute of limitations is kind of up on that, um, like, you could schedule it and some, like, right wing news source would be outraged, and maybe take a few people with them, but most people would be like, yeah, September 11th, that’s fine.

[00:11:31] Christina: exactly, right? So, anyway, going, that, that was just a slight pivot and, and apologies for that. But like, um, so I’ve got an appointment with my shrink in, in two weeks, or a week and a half I guess to assess and see. Where things are and if I’m going to continue on this medication, things seem to be going a lot better.

[00:11:47] Christina: Um, but my summer, to be honest, you guys, like has been me coming to terms with the fact that I had been depressed for years, um, And I knew that, but I hadn’t really wanted to focus on it, and then it [00:12:00] got to the point that the depression was so bad that it started impacting my work. And that was when, as I always do, like, you know, the first time I ever had one of the debilitating issues and I couldn’t get out of bed, it was when I was in high school.

[00:12:13] Christina: And then I was in college, and now, you know, I’m, I’m an adult. And so, it’s been a difficult summer insofar as having to… Face the reality that, yeah, you’ve been depressed for years, and now it is finally at the point that it is impacting, you can’t cover it up anymore, it’s not just a thing that’s impacting your personal life and your at home life, like, it’s actually impacting your work, and if you don’t get this under control, you’re going to have to, um, take a leave of absence, and, and that was honestly my biggest fear, I was like, I don’t want you to have to Take a leave of absence and have to, you know, try to figure things out or God, I don’t even know if going into like a treatment facility would help, right?

[00:12:50] Christina: Like, I have no fucking clue. I don’t think it would, but I don’t know, right? Like, you know, but I definitely didn’t want to have to take like medical leave. And so this was sort of my wake up moment [00:13:00] when I had to, that was end of June when I had to kind of face that. And then, you know, the last, you know, two months have really been all about, um, Trying to try out new drugs and, and get out of it and do a lot of self assessment and thinking and talking to friends and talk to my mom and talk to my shrink and, you know, get out of my own head.

[00:13:23] Christina: And so I feel like it’s been good. I feel like the light is coming out of the tunnel. Um, but it’s felt like it’s just, it’s really been a summer of rebuilding and, uh,

[00:13:34] Jeff: Yeah. Wow. And that, I mean, just hearing you say that when you start asking yourself that question, like, is there maybe an inpatient solution here? Um, I’ve been to that point once, and it’s really intense. Even though my friends who have done it, it’s like, I’m so happy for you. Right. Like, but wow. Uh, so just, just

[00:13:53] Brett: Or even, even

[00:13:54] Jeff: to that?

[00:13:54] Brett: Even intensive outpatient treatment. It sounds, it sounds like, [00:14:00] um, I’m I’ll, I’ll talk about it in my, in my little segment of this segment, but, uh, it has been suggested to me that I might benefit from inpatient treatment and it sounds like so much. Work? Like, to, to take time off work and spend time, if I’m going to take time off work, I want to enjoy myself.

[00:14:25] Christina: No, that’s kind of where I’m at. And so that’s been the thing that’s been a struggle like balancing and I felt kind of like an asshole because I, I mean, look, it’s been a slow period at work, which I’ve been lucky about. It’s about to get really busy. And so that’s okay too, that I’ve been able to sort of, you know, Not be super on it this summer, um, but I’ve had to even be more candid with people than I normally am.

[00:14:47] Christina: I’m like, yeah, I’m going through medication change issues, which I’ve never had to do as an adult with, like, a corporate, you know, high paying job before. Um, I mean, I’ve had to do it when I was going through, like, awful medication [00:15:00] withdrawals. But that’s different than, than trying out new drugs and getting the side effects and dealing with that.

[00:15:05] Christina: Like, withdrawal is one thing. The side effect fuck up shit is completely different and not knowing if it’s gonna work or not. And that’s why I put off admitting to myself how depressed I was for so long. Because if I’m being completely candid, I was at the point when I probably should have started doing this probably two years ago, right?

[00:15:24] Christina: And… Um, I just let it, you know, fester and fester and fester and then it got to the point that I couldn’t anymore. So, I’m, I’m glad that I’m taking care of it. I’m glad that I’m at least able to recognize where I’m at and I’m glad that I didn’t get to the point where I would have to, yeah, like, go on medical leave and, you know, and the reason I think that I would maybe potentially do an inpatient thing, because, because part of me is like, is like, would that be any better than doing what you’re doing now?

[00:15:54] Christina: And I’m like, well, yeah, maybe you’d be forced to do it.

[00:15:56] Jeff: yeah, yeah, it

[00:15:59] Christina: that would force you to [00:16:00] actually focus on it.

[00:16:01] Jeff: I’ve always wondered about that, like, so I know, when I think about that, it feels like such a fracture in my entire story, right? But that’s not what it’s been for the people I care about who have done it, right? It’s been like… Yeah, I needed that. And also, I just want to acknowledge, we put a false frame around this, given what you’re talking about, of summer. And you’re describing something that’s two years, more than two years in the making, and that you’re, sounds like you’re very much in the middle of.

[00:16:30] Christina: Yeah, but

[00:16:30] Jeff: that, is that true?

[00:16:32] Christina: It’s true, but it feels like I’m coming out of, right? So it feels like the nice thing has been summer and, and the break or the things that that represents. And it’s weird, you know, again, this is such an American thing and this is not the case for all industries at all. But at least, you know, in my world of tech, like I’m fortunate that, that Microsoft as a company is basically off in August.

[00:16:52] Christina: And as a result, GitHub as a company, even though we have slightly different cadences and do different things, we are not going to [00:17:00] be as active either. And, um, that was a complete kind of shock to my system because the news never stops. You have slower periods, but the news doesn’t stop. But I was incredibly grateful for the fact that August is essentially A no one is around month, and you can, historically what I’ve done is I’ve used it to actually get shit, shit done and like, kind of, you know, uh, get myself prepared for, for, for the future.

[00:17:26] Christina: This time I was able to just kind of like, okay, get yourself into a place that once it starts getting busy, you know, because September through, you know, early December is gonna be. Bam, you know, a ton of shit, um, you know, step up. So I’m feeling like I’m in a good place though, but that’s, that’s my long, what I did on my summer vacation slash mental health update, which to me kind of feel like the same thing.

[00:17:54] Christina: Oh, there was also, there were also three Taylor Swift concerts in the middle, which, uh, which honestly was, was [00:18:00] good, was good therapy and was good, good stuff. And she’s going to be bringing that experience to movie theaters this October.

[00:18:07] Jeff: Oh, nice.

[00:18:08] Christina: everyone can

[00:18:09] Jeff: was there? So, okay, I have a question about the Taylor Swift concerts. I, I’ve only seen so many, uh, I’ve only seen a few aspects of the stage design and, and performance. And the one that obviously you see the most is when she dives into the stage. Um, That must, now that I’m thinking of it in the context of how you’re feeling, I’m curious, is there one aspect of that show that you saw three times that felt like, I imagine that feeling like a relief?

[00:18:36] Christina: That…

[00:18:37] Jeff: yeah.

[00:18:38] Christina: And then, so, I mean, the thing is, it’s such a weird experience because it’s like three and a half hours, but the whole day, like, you’re there for like six hours, right, if you, you know, by the time you get there and you’re just with all these people dressed up and everybody’s singing at the top of their lungs and screaming and excited and it’s unlike any concert or music or any experience I’ve ever actually been around.

[00:18:57] Christina: before because I’ve never been around that many [00:19:00] people that much, you know, like everybody comes to it with their own perspectives and their own stories and their own affections, but I’ve never been around that many people who all love the same thing that you love. Um, that’s kind of fucking powerful. Um, but when she does the all too well 10 minute version on her guitar, that’s and everybody is, is singing every word of that 10 minute version of like my favorite song.

[00:19:29] Christina: And it’s been my favorite song of hers before it was the fan favorite. Like the minute, like Red leaked on the internet before it came out on like, it’s supposed to be out on Friday and it came out on like a Wednesday night and I got like a pirated copy of like the deluxe edition or whatever. And I remember listening to it, you know, back to front, front to back, whatever.

[00:19:46] Christina: And I remember coming back to that track five after I listened to the whole thing again, listened to it again and again. I remember, I think I remember even saying to Grant, I was like, This fucking song is really good and he just, he was dismissive but like, I remember like that it was [00:20:00] enough and I knew he’d be dismissive and that’s fine but I knew, I was like, I loved that song and then when she, you know, wrote the 10 minute version which I do not at all believe were the lyrics that she wrote originally in 2012.

[00:20:13] Christina: I do not believe that for a second. Uh,

[00:20:15] Jeff: So part of it is it’s expanding on this thing that already meant so much to you.

[00:20:20] Christina: Yeah, and then she made the short film about it, right? But then doing that live, because I’ve seen her do the song, um, live before, actually before this tour I’d never seen, yeah, I had it on the Red Tour, yeah, I’d seen her do it live before and I’d watched millions of videos, but seeing that song would be enough within the 10 minute version, because it’s 10 minutes long, and it’s like, everybody in the crowd is just like, it’s this very emotional song and everybody just kind of, you know, screaming all the lyrics out is just, I don’t know, it’s kind of, uh, it’s kind of, like, exhilarating.

[00:20:48] Jeff: Yeah. Sounds

[00:20:49] Christina: So that, that, that, that, that’s, that’s the moment. But I love the, the stage jump moment, too. That’s, that’s so cool. That transition’s my favorite transition of all of them. Because then it looks like she swims underneath and then comes out the other side. It’s

[00:20:59] Jeff: [00:21:00] since I have an opportunity to actually ask, what is the context of the stage, and to describe, right? I’m sure everyone’s seen it. She jumps into what looks like water, it’s a hole in

[00:21:08] Christina: It looks like water.

[00:21:09] Jeff: on some slide underground, and

[00:21:11] Christina: Yep. So, so, so basically, I think that the setup for that particular one, I’m trying to think what she’s getting ready for, it’s switching one of the setups between like two of the eras, and I can’t think of what era to what era it’s doing. But basically, that’s how they’re transitioning.

[00:21:27] Christina: I think, oh, I think when she comes up, that’s when I think that the, um, um, Uh, Folklore Cabin comes up, and she starts, um, doing, um, songs off of Folklore, um, I think, uh, when, when, uh, when she comes up, because they, uh, there’s, uh, a number of different set pieces, but one of the big ones is that the cabin for Folklore, which was featured in the music videos, but she also used it in her Grammy performance.

[00:21:52] Christina: That’s on the main stage, which is not where she spends the majority of her time. She spends the majority of her time like on the catwalk or at the diamond in the center or at like a [00:22:00] front stage, but there is like a back like main stage area where this cabin comes up like from under the ground and it looks like it’s all moss covered and tree covered and it looks like it’s coming out of the earth and the trees are coming in.

[00:22:12] Christina: And you know, it’s like this whole other world is taking you by. It’s actually pretty cool. The, the cool thing about this is, because they, so she announced this week that she’s bringing the experience to movie theaters, which is unreal. Um, and it’s going to be, I’m sure, you know, they’ve shot incredibly well.

[00:22:29] Christina: So people will be able to see. What this was, and I’m sure it’ll then come to streaming, but it’s, it’s, it’s unheard of for something like this to go to theaters this way, um, And, uh, uh, Brett, some details about the financials behind it. She’s fucking smart. Her, and her, her parents are fucking smart. And, it’s, I, I now think that she’s trying to take on like, she’s trying to do Barbie sized dollars at the box office is what she’s trying to do.

[00:22:54] Christina: And I think she will. Anyway, I’m done. That’s, that’s my whole, sorry,

[00:22:57] Jeff: just to, now Brett, we gotta get to [00:23:00] you, I just wanna say my favorite phenomenon from this whole Taylor Swift thing, and a couple friends did this, is people getting registered as security guards. And, and, and working. So I have a friend who did that and he’s right, his back’s right to the stage, but then of course she’s walking around.

[00:23:12] Jeff: So you’re still, you have like a front row seat. And, and I don’t think you have to do that much work as a security guard at a Taylor Swift

[00:23:19] Christina: no, nobody’s, no, no, that’s the thing. Everybody knows they’re like, oh, there are snipers. There’s nobody’s getting close to that stage. Like, everybody, it’s, it’s like very

[00:23:26] Jeff: Wait, are there literally snipers? Okay,

[00:23:29] Christina: no, I mean, I don’t know.

[00:23:31] Jeff: I get it, I get it.

[00:23:33] Christina: I, I don’t think so, but at the same time, I probably think so. Like, if I’m being honest with you,

[00:23:37] Brett: like, you don’t know, and that’s what keeps you from, that’s what

[00:23:40] Jeff: Yeah, that’s the point.

[00:23:41] Brett: You can’t be 100%

[00:23:43] Jeff: be snipers. Alright. Heh heh.

[00:23:47] Christina: In South America, I guarantee you there will be snipers.

[00:23:52] Brett: Alright, so I have a question for both of you, um, leading into my, my mental health corner. Uh, you’ve [00:24:00] both talked about, uh, certain destabilizing. Hey, there it is! We’ll get, we’ll get to, we’ll get to that in a second, we’ll, we’ll try to figure out why that happened, but, um, uh, so you’ve both talked about certain destabilizing events, uh, that have brought forward mental health issues that you hadn’t been forced to deal with before.

[00:24:24] Brett: And I have also had the same experience recently. Um, I am currently completely destabilized and flailing, but at the same time, I find myself really grateful that, um, that I’m being forced to deal with things that had always existed,

[00:24:44] Christina: Mm hmm.

[00:24:45] Brett: but that I had never… Uh, been bothered to deal with before. Do you guys have a certain feeling of like gratitude for this destabilization?

[00:24:59] Christina: [00:25:00] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, there’s frustration sometimes with myself for waiting as long as I waited. Right. But no, but, but, but no, definitely I think there, when there are things that, you know, have been there that you’ve been able to avoid and that you’ve like put off, and then no. There is a certain sense of, of gratitude to be forced into dealing with it.

[00:25:17] Christina: I think so. For Absolutely. Because you know you need to deal with it,

[00:25:22] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Like the stuff that I’m going to therapy for right now is stuff that I know I’ve felt before it’s stuff that has come to the surface before, and I’ve always found ways to circumvent it. Um, but instead I’m being forced to actually confront it. And that’s been. That’s been good. So, okay, what I did this summer was work and exist and then last weekend I went to Minneapolis. Our couples therapist [00:26:00] recommended that I give Elle some time Because I work from home, and she works out of the house, so I get hours every day where I have the house to myself.

[00:26:11] Brett: Uh, but if she’s home, I’m home. And I don’t go out much, and she doesn’t get much of a break. She never gets the house to herself, so I’ve started trying to schedule more, like, Instead of doing lunch with friends, I’ve been doing dinner with friends, um, drinks with friends. And I decided to give Elle a whole weekend and I would just take off and go to Minneapolis.

[00:26:36] Brett: I got to see Jeff. I got to eat a bunch of great food. I got to meet Jeff’s kids, which was awesome.

[00:26:41] Jeff: I just assumed your therapist said you needed a weekend where you got to see me and meet my kids.

[00:26:46] Brett: sure.

[00:26:48] Jeff: Heh heh heh heh heh.

[00:26:48] Brett: Like, it doesn’t hurt to, um, increase my social FaceTime with other people. Like, that was also recommended by a therapist. So, it was a kill two [00:27:00] birds with one stone. Um, by the way, the, uh, the asteroid… Hitting the earth that killed the dinosaurs. Greatest, greatest historical ratio of killing birds to one stone.

[00:27:16] Brett: Um, so,

[00:27:18] Brett: it was a great trip. Um, I had a great time. Uh, honestly, I don’t think it was enough time for Elle to feel truly like refreshed and like ready to have missed me. Um. I think she needs more like 10 days before she’s actually like, Oh my God, I can’t wait for you to get home. Um, three days was… It was enough for her to get some sleep, I guess, but, um, but yeah, it was, it was good.

[00:27:48] Brett: Uh, and then the other thing that I’ve been doing in the last month is walking on my treadmill desk. Like, I have a treadmill desk, and I’ve always [00:28:00] had the option to be walking while working. Um, but I, for a long time, have rarely taken advantage of it. Uh, since… Since the beginning of July, I have walked between 3 and 10 miles a day, every day.

[00:28:16] Brett: And I really thought that would help me lose more weight than it did. Um, it turns out my body just has a set weight that it wants to be at. But I’ve built up a lot of strength and a lot of endurance and, and I am no longer like winded. Going on, going on 30 minute walks with the dog because I’m walking hours a day anyway.

[00:28:42] Brett: Um, so that’s been good. I’ve also been lifting. Um, so some of my failure to lose weight could also be attributed to gain in muscle. Um,

[00:28:53] Jeff: well done.

[00:28:54] Brett: un unknown. I guess I don’t have a… A

[00:28:57] Jeff: why I, when I’m trying to lose weight, I [00:29:00] never lift weights, and in fact, I never lift weights at all.

[00:29:05] Brett: Yeah,

[00:29:06] Jeff: I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna fuck up the data.

[00:29:08] Brett: but I’ve been stable as far as bipolar goes. I’ve been stable for six months or more.

[00:29:14] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say, it’s been so long. I’m so proud of you.

[00:29:18] Brett: Yeah. Well, yeah, like there’s a certain in historically that’s been a kind of shitty thing for me because, because without mania I don’t get anything done. But I have found, I have found that new stable that I was looking for, where I am actually like energetic and productive without tipping over.

[00:29:41] Christina: I was going to say, that’s the thing, if you can find that point where you don’t have to use, because I, I don’t want to speak for you, but having been on this pod with you for so many years and talking to you, it does feel like sometimes maybe you’ve used those periods of mania as a crutch. Knowing that you could, you know, get things done and do other things and almost like, you know, [00:30:00] you, you kind of like, you know, use it as this thing and not to say that there can’t be good, it, it, not that it’s not amazing that you could do great things with it, right, but I think it’s even better if you are able to get things done without it.

[00:30:11] Brett: agreed,

[00:30:12] Jeff: In the past, you’d be like, Ooh, organic cocaine. Um, excellent. Uh, I also wanted to say, Brett, about that six months. I almost, it makes me wonder, this is a question to you. Um, I wonder, has it allowed you to get, I wonder if there was just an amount of time in which you are going to be bound to be asking yourself, what am I without X, right?

[00:30:35] Jeff: But then after six months, you have to have answered that.

[00:30:39] Brett: Yeah, so between the, uh, extracurricular meds I’m taking, um, and, and just a general shift in my overall, uh, like mental stability, like the new, the new [00:31:00] stable kind of just came about without Um, after, after a few months, I just found like a way to be productive, a way to keep coding, a way to keep creating, uh, without the mania.

[00:31:16] Brett: And honestly, like the point I’m at right now, I could comfortably exist in for the rest of my life. Um. Like, I, I no longer feel a need to like, try to trigger mania, just to, just to get that spark of creativity, just to get that, um, uh, burst of productivity, like, I finally have like, a stable, and it’s every day, right, like, instead

[00:31:47] Jeff: kind of count on it, you’re not flinching, maybe, or are you still flinching sometimes? Like, oh boy, is this it?

[00:31:51] Brett: Oh, no, there have been a couple times when I’ve gotten, like, a bad night’s sleep, and I think, Oh, God, now I’m going manic. Um, that happened on my last [00:32:00] night in Minneapolis. Uh, I switched to a different hotel, and the bed was uncomfortable, and the AC was too loud, and it was just a shitty hotel. Um, and… I didn’t sleep at all that night and I drove home, I drove the two and a half hour drive back to Winona on about two hours of fitful sleep and I thought for sure that was gonna be the trigger that made me manic and it, it didn’t happen.

[00:32:31] Christina: awesome. I

[00:32:32] Brett: Yeah, and that night that I, it was like Southside Minneapolis and I was pretty far from, uh, the kind of centers of good restaurants, like the, the clusters of good restaurants. But there was this place right across the street from my hotel called, uh, I want to say the Clay Pot, and it was an Indian restaurant.

[00:32:59] Brett: And [00:33:00] they had little symbols on their menu for gluten free, dairy free, and vegetarian, vegan. And, um, 90% of their menu was gluten free and dairy free. And then, like, 70% of that was also vegan, which is, like, that’s my sweet spot, right? Gluten free, dairy free, vegetarian. And I could order anything. And I… I had such a good time there.

[00:33:29] Brett: And they asked me, do you want spice level one through seven? So I was like six, I can do six and it was mild. And I wish I’d done seven. And then I wish I’d asked, do you have like a white people versus like Indian people scale that I can like get in on? Cause I,

[00:33:50] Jeff: example of, of totally useless, um, data definition.

[00:33:55] Brett: right. Um, I’ve been really into hot

[00:33:58] Jeff: six? Are you kidding me? [00:34:00] Like, you go up to six and six is not hot? That’s just a one, two, three

[00:34:03] Spicy, Policitcal Digression

[00:34:03] Brett: yeah, yeah. Um, I’ve been really into watching Hot Ones lately.

[00:34:08] Christina: the Hot Ones.

[00:34:08] Brett: It’s, it’s so great. If you love celebrities and you want to see them sweat, it’s

[00:34:13] Jeff: And if you love good interviews!

[00:34:15] Christina: I was gonna say, he’s a remarkably good interviewer. Like, you know?

[00:34:18] Brett: Yeah, um, I introduced my, we’ll call her my sister in law, I’m not married, but my, my girlfriend’s sister, um, I introduced her to it just last night and, and we had a blast watching, um, Anna Kendrick and LL Cool J.

[00:34:35] Brett: Um,

[00:34:36] Christina: You should, um, you should watch the SNL parody of Beyonce on

[00:34:39] Brett: seen it, I’ve seen it.

[00:34:40] Christina: really good. It’s so good.

[00:34:42] Brett: um, but I watched so much of it that I was like, I wanna order these hot sauces and do this along with them. Um, so

[00:34:50] Jeff: that a thing? Is that a thing, or is that your invention?

[00:34:52] Brett: yeah, no, you can do that. Um, so I’ve been like, doing the wing challenge along with people and getting that [00:35:00] fuckin body buzz you get from Excessive heat.

[00:35:04] Brett: Like I have the, I have the Last Stab XXX, which is like three versions of the X Pepper, which is the hot, hotter than gho