304: The One About Taylor Swift

The One About Taylor Swift

[00:00:00] Christina: I don’t want

[00:00:01] Jeffrey: Anybody else mean that?

[00:00:04] Christina: I touch myself.

[00:00:06] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm.

[00:00:06] Brett: Mm-hmm.

[00:00:07] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired.

[00:00:11] Jeffrey: Hi everybody. This is the Overtired podcast. I’m here today with Brett Terpstra. Say hello, Brett

[00:00:19] Brett: Hello, Jeff?

[00:00:20] Jeffrey: I love, I love commanding hellos.

[00:00:22] Brett: Wait. Hello, Brett?

[00:00:24] Jeffrey: Christina Warren. Say hello

[00:00:25] Christina: Hello.

[00:00:26] Jeffrey: and our special guest, Taylor Swift. She’s not really here, but she’s here in spirit. We’ll talk all about her. Just get ready, start stretching.

[00:00:35] Um, it’s good to see you all. I haven’t seen you. I guess it was only a week I took off, but it feels like longer for some reason.

[00:00:41] Brett: Yeah. We miss you.

[00:00:43] Jeffrey: Thank you. Glad

[00:00:44] Brett: Yeah. You, you’ve had, uh, you’ve had some tooth trauma. What’s going on with your mouth?

[00:00:49] Jeffrey: Mm, everybody loves to hear people’s dental problems. Uh, so I went into the, I had this horrible pain and I had it for a little while and I went into the dentist cause I was about to leave town, so some friends and I, we rented a little island with a cabin on it. And, uh, and I was gonna be living on an island in northern Minnesota for like four days, but I had all this tooth pain.

[00:01:10] So I went in just to see if there was anything to be done or take a look at it. And they were like, Oh, this tooth is is like dying. It’s, and they, it’s called resorption. And the idea is basically that my, my body has targeted that tooth, uh, and is sort of, Sending all of its negative dark energy to the tooth, and the tooth was just like decaying from the inside.

[00:01:32] It was just a really bizarre thing. I’ve never heard of it. And they’re like, This has to get pulled. And so just yesterday I went and got it pulled. I have very long roots. I’ve had this problem since I was a kid. When I get my teeth pulled, I already know what they’re gonna say before they say it, which is like, okay, this is gonna take a little extra time.

[00:01:50] Right? And I may have to take this off in not two pieces, but four to six pieces, which is what happened yesterday. I was in the dentist chair for three hours. I was in it so long that other staff were coming in to say goodnight to the dentist

[00:02:06] Christina: Oh my God.

[00:02:08] Jeffrey: And there were definitely points where he. Exactly. Sure he was gonna be able to get everything out.

[00:02:15] Um, but he remained, uh, comfortably confident, unlike some dentists who are just, I think, ridiculously confident. Um, and we got that. We got that thing out and now I have this like, massive hole and I hate, it’s a gap between my teeth. It was a big molar. And, uh, and I also now can say that pretty soon, six of my eight molars will be either crowns or in this case an implant.

[00:02:41] So I’m, I’m not gonna em off one by one.

[00:02:43] Brett: Wow. My, uh, my dentist looks for any, excuse not to use Novocaine. She’s always.

[00:02:50] Jeffrey: I remember

[00:02:51] Brett: always like, No, this will be e I barely have to drill it all.

[00:02:54] Jeffrey: Oh

[00:02:54] Brett: just gonna just, just, just hold on. It won’t take long. And I always end up crying because I get like super tense and then the pain starts, and then I’m just like, this combination of expectation and actual tooth pain, like a tear always runs on my cheek.

[00:03:11] And I’m, I told her last time, I’m like, If you make me cry, I’m fucking switching dentists. And, and she still insisted that this one won’t require Novocaine. It’ll just be a quick, quick drill.

[00:03:25] Jeffrey: so I’ve had a version of that where my dentist will say, I’m pretty sure you don’t need it. Let’s, How do you feel about moving forward? And if you think like you can’t handle it, we stop immediately and just start, get out the needles. But like the idea that she’s kind of suggesting that the correct

[00:03:42] Brett: despite my protestation, she’s suggesting that I don’t need it.

[00:03:47] Jeffrey: that’s not how you help people.

[00:03:48] Brett: That’s

[00:03:49] Jeffrey: That is actually how a lot of people help people, but it’s not how you should help people.

Swears

[00:03:52] Brett: So I swore in front of her, I said the FBO in front of her. I think I mentioned that on a show previously. Um, and, and she like called me out on it and, and it was like, don’t use that language in front of next visit. She leans over it, she’s telling a story to her, like, uh, her hygienist and she leans over and whispers something, fucking, something, uh, as if like in a solidarity kind of thing.

[00:04:22] Christina: Hmm.

[00:04:22] Brett: Like, she knows I’m down with it. So she’s like, eh, I’m gonna swear under my breath, um, to make me feel okay. I guess. I don’t know. But I mean, that’s the thing about swearing is it is a, it’s a social construct. Like you swear to test the waters and if someone’s okay with it, you swear within reason. If you swear too much, you’ve broken the social bond.

[00:04:46] Um, like there’s, there’s a way to overdo it, even if someone’s comfortable with swearing, like you can still swear too much for that person. So it’s a constant give and take to figure out like how much swearing is okay, what words are okay. And if you don’t respond to it properly, you break the social contract.

[00:05:05] And, and like you can really, you can really screw things up, . But I think she, I think she was making an effort to, to be social, like.

[00:05:15] Christina: One of my favorite experiences ever. So at Gizmoto, one of the, when I moved from Mashable to Gizmoto, one of the biggest changes was obviously the amount of swearing you could do. Uh, I think Mashable now, they curse a little bit more, but at the time,

[00:05:28] Brett: In writing.

[00:05:30] Christina: in writing, I was the only person who would ever like successfully, I think other than maybe if there was a direct quote, um, for something.

[00:05:38] I was like one of the only people who would ever. Been able to curse, like, at least with the fbam, like in like a, a, a lead sentence. Right? And, and I

[00:05:48] Brett: but not a headline.

[00:05:49] Christina: I almost got in, in a headline. It was approved as a headline and then it was changed at the last minute. And I was mad because the headline was so good.

[00:05:55] It was when the Ashley Madison hack happened and I said, Ashley Madison is fucked, was my headline. And that, and that remained the, um, the slug and it was approved. I, I, I won approval for it. And then the, the

[00:06:07] Jeffrey: a good seo.

[00:06:08] Christina: it? Well, it, it would’ve, well actually this was the argument for why Chris Taylor, who I love, and he’s, he’s great.

[00:06:15] Ended up changing it to Ashley Madison is so screwed. And he was probably right to do so. Um, it did better on Facebook. Um, and it got like shitloads of Facebook, um, uh, traffic and it.

[00:06:26] Brett: you AB test this? Do

[00:06:27] Christina: No, No, but, but, but Facebook, and I don’t know if they still do, but at the time they would not like, promote things that had like cursing and headlines.

[00:06:35] Right? So in terms of, of, so, so in terms of like, if we share to our page the way it’s gonna be re-shared and, and other stuff like was, was, would be impacted. So it was ultimately probably the right move. But I was, was up, I mean, there was a part of me that died inside cuz I was like, God, it was such a good headline.

[00:06:55] Um, and, and I, I successfully won it. So I go over to Gizmodo, Gizmodo, the Curse all the time is not a big deal. And my first month there, um, uh, Alex Dickinson, our deputy editor, great guy, um, sends out an email who ba basically saying, Look, You’re cussing too much. Like it’s fine. We, we wanna do it, but it’s losing its value because you’re, you’re doing it so much that it’s like, it, it’s, it’s, it’s losing its edge and it’s just coming across as just kind of crunchy.

[00:07:27] And I was like, Man, I’m at the right place because this is the sort of emails we get, which is like, not don’t curse, just, you know, save it and use it better. Um, but,

[00:07:39] Jeffrey: That’s just like, that’s interesting. Cause that’s just like, you know, Brent, what you were describing in social situations

[00:07:45] Christina: exactly. No, you nailed

[00:07:47] Jeffrey: can test the waters, but then it’s gonna get to the point where you’re like, Oh, okay. There’s a threshold I didn’t see coming.

[00:07:52] Christina: Right. And, and, and in this case, the, the threshold wasn’t even so much like, Oh, we think this is socially distasteful. It’s just more like you’re, it’s eye roll inducing and it, and it’s not like, uh, the shock value and things that you think that you’re, you know, achieving aren’t there anymore.

[00:08:06] Brett: like I was raised to believe that swearing was a sign of low intelligence. Um, people, people with good vocabularies don’t swear. And as I grew up and like became more literate, I began to realize that swearing absolutely has a place in language. Uh, like it can be very pointed and it can really underscore a sentiment.

[00:08:31] I think there is absolutely a, I think a very intelligent, I think some of the most intelligent people know where to put an f bomb in a sentence and, and punctuate it, uh, and make it relatable without making it, uh, obscene.

[00:08:48] Jeffrey: When I joined my wife’s family, both my mother-in-law and her grandmother, said privately to her, I don’t normally like it when people swear, but it doesn’t bug me the way Jeff does it And I’ve always thought of that as my skill, but man, sometimes now it with news articles or any kind of article, I always love it when a source gives a great quote with a swear word in it.

[00:09:12] Cause like, you never, you never expect that. And, and I don’t mean like, I don’t mean that like dimly or thick, not like thick in the head or anything. I just mean like it can be, it can like take you by surprise, right? Um, except the one, my favorite example of that, I keep some very short soundbites of. Have done over the years, and one of the most bizarre, like obvious quotes I ever had was from Ian Mackay of Fugazi and Minor threat.

[00:09:39] He says to me in the middle of the interview, I mean, I’m a fucking punk rocker . And I was like, Yeah, okay. I know . Like that’s your whole fucking deal. So I saved that to just play for people every once in a while. I’m a fucking punk rocker.

[00:09:54] Brett: So, uh, sh sh Should we do a mental health corner?

Mental Heatlh Corner

[00:09:58] Christina: Very briefly, because we have to talk about Taylor Swift. This is very

[00:10:00] Brett: We do. This is a Taylor Swift episode. Yeah. I’ll try to keep, I’ll try to keep mine short. So I, I found the definition of it’s Cyclothymia, or it’s C y c l o t h y m i a. Um, I dunno exactly how it’s pronounced, but the definition of it is, um, uh, hypomanic episodes alternating with light depression and, uh, without rapid cycling, uh, without a lot of stability in.

[00:10:35] And that I, I think, I think that’s what I actually have instead of bipolar too. I think I have psycho imia emia. Um, I have not yet discussed it with my psychiatrist. Um, my therapist thought, Yeah, that makes perfect sense, but he, he’s not licensed to diagnose that kind of thing. So, um, I have yet to bring it up with my therapist, but man, I am absolutely realizing I don’t have an in between, between depression and mania.

[00:11:11] Um, and I’m going through this thing, right? Like I have this very deep conviction right now. I will ultimately hurt everybody I love. And, uh, this, this feeling that when people say, I love you, like in my head I’m like, That’s awesome. I love you too, but you’re gonna get fucked on this deal. Um, that I will eventually hurt.

[00:11:39] And, and like some people in my life have been very forgiving, uh, over time. But also I walked out of a, a marriage and I walked out of friendships and I get bored and I hurt people or I fuck up and I hurt people. And man, when I’m, when I’m not, man, and shit really weighs on my mind.

[00:12:01] Jeffrey: Hmm.

[00:12:01] Brett: You start to wonder like, would would the people I love be better off if I’d never been born?

[00:12:06] I am not suicidal. Do not take this as me being

[00:12:09] Jeffrey: we were heading there. Yeah. Right. And that’s not true.

[00:12:12] Brett: But it, but it is what weighs on my mind in times like this.

[00:12:17] Jeffrey: It’s a question that can only be answered falsely by you.

[00:12:20] Christina: Yes. No, you’re right, you’re right though. That that’s the thing is, is that it is one of those things where, cuz I think a lot of us have that question a lot of times and, and it’s, and it’s upsetting. I’m sorry that you’re having it now. And I think that it is worth like, weighing on like those things that we do that like nag at us and like this is, um, like certainly these are the things that keep me up at night, right?

[00:12:44] Like the self-loathing parts, like the things where you like question every decision you’ve ever made and, and decisions you haven’t made and, and, and how you are. And that can be really, um, debilitating. But to, to Jeff’s point, like it is one of those things where, You will, we can only answer it falsely, but the answer is definitively no.

[00:13:07] People would not be better off like you provide value. Like there, look, there are some people, I’m not gonna like pretend like that there aren’t situations where, there are some people where I look back in my life and I’m like, I would’ve been better off if I had not known them and if I had not met them and if they had not been in my life.

[00:13:21] Right? That’s just, that’s accurate I think for everyone. But like, that’s, that’s not the case with you, right? Like even the worst things you’ve ever done to people, like the, the good and other things that you’ve done with them outweigh that. And uh, you know, and I think that, that, like my, my father had like a pretty complicated relationship with his mother, and she’s one of those people where I think back, I’m like, nothing to value would’ve been lost if she was, if she had never been in my life, if I’d never known her or anything, like, nothing to value would be lost.

[00:13:52] I’m not gonna say my life would’ve been better, but zero would’ve been lost. But I think that even him is debilitating and is like, Oppressive and as hard as that relationship was, um, in a lot of ways, if you were to ask him, would my life have been better off, if she had never been around, he would’ve a, he would, he would respond, No.

[00:14:13] Right. Like he still got something there, which like, as an outsider, it’s hard for me to grab that. I’m like, Man, I would be like, if you could do, have a doover and have her not exist. Sure.

[00:14:23] Brett: If this is still relevant in a future week, I will revisit it and, and offer my rebuttal. But we have Taylor to get you, so I’m gonna accept what you’re saying. Thank you. Thank you for your feedback.

[00:14:37] Jeffrey: Um, my mental health check in is that, I, um, I went away with two other couples, my wife and I and two other couples. Their kids, our kids. Our kids have all been friends forever. It’s how we know each other as adults. And it is a, a relationship that has been really just getting tighter and tighter by the years.

[00:15:00] We’ve done different vacations together. This time we rented an island, uh, in northern Minnesota with like the gnarliest, most delightful disaster of a pontoon boat ever, which had the name Leisure Island. Leisure Island, if you’re classy. Um, and you know, I just have this memory cuz I actually, the first night we were all there together, I had to bow out cause I had taken Tylenol with codeine from my tooth, which it turns out doesn’t play with lithium.

[00:15:26] And so I was super nauseous and ultimately it was just like in there throwing up. It was awful. But from the other room, I could hear. All of these people, 10 people ranging from eighth grade to, I suppose I’m the oldest, I think. Um, but they’re all just like having a blast. And it was that kind of easy fun that you can have with people you’ve known for a while.

[00:15:48] Um, and it was so cool cause all the kids were part of it, whatever, like, it just felt good. I don’t have a lot of friendships that are like newish. Um, and these are, you know, within 15 years or so. And, um, and it was just like really good for me to be in that space with those people. And fortunately I wasn’t throwing up the rest of the trip.

[00:16:11] Um, just waking up onto a porch with, you know, four friends who are having coffee and staring at the lake and just talking about whatever comes.

[00:16:20] Brett: That sounds nice.

[00:16:21] Christina: Yeah.

[00:16:22] Jeffrey: Without my wife, I don’t know that these things would happen to me. , she does a really good job of finding the good things and keeping them close, um, whereas I’m more likely to just wanna hide.

[00:16:35] Uh, but it’s just lovely and wonderful. So that was, that was super nice.

[00:16:39] Brett: That’s beautiful.

[00:16:41] Jeffrey: Christina, how you doing?

[00:16:42] Christina: I’m good. I’m, um, so I’m gonna be in San Francisco next week as usual. Work is often tied at times tied to my mental health because that’s me. Um, which is other stuff I probably need to, to deal with. But yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m doing well. Um, I, uh, if we have time to get into it, I’ve been pissing some people off on Twitter, which is always fun for me, so,

[00:17:08] Jeffrey: just don’t worry. It’s all gonna be wiped clean in a couple days when Elon’s officially in charge. Um, actually he’s been firing people left and right, hasn’t he?

[00:17:15] Christina: yeah, yeah,

[00:17:16] Brett: is the core of what, what Christina piss people

[00:17:19] Christina: yeah. That, that, that’s the core of what pissed them off because cuz I, I was. Basically like good riddens to, uh, Paraag Agarwal, the Twitter ceo, uh, who I think did a pretty shitty job. Um, uh, a large, uh, contingent of a, of a subcontinent. Did not agree with that. And, uh, and uh, yeah. So that was fun.

Taylor Swift: A History (Part 1)

[00:17:42] Jeffrey: Okay. Christina Taylor Swift has a new album, so much more than that to talk about in a way. Cuz she’s just like, talk about constellations. There’s like extra songs over here and there’s a video and there’s, you know, Um, Alright. I, I know that Brett and I had homework, but I think, and I want to hear from Brett.

[00:18:03] I have nothing interesting to offer that is original of my own. I really enjoyed listening to the album. I listened to it a few times over and, uh,

[00:18:13] Christina: Thank you. Thank you for doing the homework. Brett did not put that much into it, and he never does. So I, this is one of the reasons I’m

[00:18:19] Brett: I gave it a full

[00:18:20] Christina: I knew you did and I appreciate that. That is,

[00:18:23] Brett: and I watched the music videos,

[00:18:25] Christina: which again, I appreciate and, and I wanna be clear. That’s even more than I expect from you.

[00:18:30] But to see this is why I love having Jeff on because he like genuinely goes like above and beyond and really gets into it. And here’s the thing. I love that you did it, Brett, but I know that you hated every second of it and that you didn’t wanna do it. Whereas like Jeff like was excited by like the

[00:18:45] Brett: I did it thoughtfully. I did it and I thought, How do I feel about this? And I came to, I came to conclusions and I, and that, and then I would be like, Let’s listen to one more song and, and then see how I feel about it. And, and I did that and I got all the way through it and I did my homework. And you, you, you, I’m not an extra credit guy, I guess.

[00:19:06] Jeffrey: so Christina, let’s like, let’s set the, let’s set this up a little bit. First of all, what number album is this for Taylor Swift? Number 10. First album came out.

[00:19:16] Christina: is, uh, 2006.

[00:19:18] Jeffrey: Okay,

[00:19:19] Christina: And, and, and so it’s, it’s her 10th album, but she also did two full rerecord. So it’s, it, it could be number 12 if, if you, you know, wanted to count those. Um, but it, it’s the, the 10th original album.

[00:19:32] Jeffrey: And will you tell me just briefly what is the deal with the rerecord?

[00:19:36] Christina: So she, Okay, so, um, she was signed to a record label called Big Machine, um, Records in 2006, and they owned her masters, which is the case with almost all artists. She had wanted to get to the point where she could own her own masters and buy her old ones back, but they had basically been like, You will have to do a new album for us for.

[00:19:58] Master recording you wanna get back. Basically like tying her into an even longer, um, uh, contract with them. And, and she, I guess, had some disputes with them about some other things. So when she left Big Machine and went to Republic, which is part of Universal in 2017, she, I think she did that in part because Scott Boesche, the owner of the label, had kind of made it clear that he wasn’t super interested in continuing to own the record label.

[00:20:23] Kind of wanted to cash out what he wound up doing. I think they had, she claims that they made efforts to buy the, the, um, Masters back and that they were, uh, not allowed. Uh, they dispute this, it’s unclear, but he wound up selling. The company and by extent all of her masters to Scooter Bran. And Scooter Bran was someone that she’d previously had negative interactions with.

[00:20:47] He’s, he’s a talent manager. Uh, he like most famous for discovering, uh, Justin Bieber. He also managed, uh, manages, uh, um, Ariana Grande and, and Demi Lovato and some others. But he and Taylor had, had, uh, past, uh, negative experiences. She did not want him to own her work. He was, frankly pretty dickish about it.

[00:21:07] And kind of like once he, he bought, you know, the label and the whole reason you would buy Big Machine. To be very clear, the only reason you buy big machine is for the Taylor Swift catalog. Like that’s where all the value is. So, cuz there are some other artists that are signed there, but they’re incidental.

[00:21:21] The whole reason you buy the label is, is for her.

[00:21:24] Jeffrey: and so she was on, She was on big machine from day one.

[00:21:27] Christina: Yes. Like Scott Rotta signed her. So like, she was 16, I think she was 15 when she maybe got the record deal. And, and, and he signed her. And to be clear, like he put a lot into her and made bets too. But she also very quickly took off and, and, and made the label right, because it was this indie label. And she also, in fairness to her, I mean like they, they helped each other.

[00:21:47] I think they’re acrimony. It’s, it’s a big part of some of the songs, um, on, uh, uh, folklore. Um, and, and there are a couple of songs on midnights that allude to it too, but it’s clearly a very big, um, uh, you know, breakup for her, probably the biggest in her life. Um, but then where she felt betrayed was that not only was it the, the label sold, but she knew was going to happen, but it was sold to this person that she did not respect and that she did not like, who then started gloating about, Oh, I own this stuff now.

[00:22:17] The problem was, and the, and this is where the rerecord stuff comes, Because she’s the songwriter on every single one of her songs. She’s the co-writer in some cases, but she is the songwriter on every single one of her songs. They cannot license the originals unless she also gives her her permission because she does, she, they, they own the master recording, but they don’t own the songwriter credits.

[00:22:39] Um, and, and, and you need both if you wanna, wanna license something for mechanical use for film or television or advertisements, which is again, the reason why you would buy the back catalog wouldn’t just be for the royalties and streaming. No, she’s famously not licensed her music much. Um, but if someone else owns it, like they could license it, however, she has to still give her permission.

[00:23:01] So what she did is she figured out, Oh, if I rerecord. The music then that will take away from the profit they can make off of streaming. And I can license the rerecord, but not license the originals. So basically, you know, in, in, in effect cutting down how much money they could get from it. Scooter bronze still wound up, he wound up flipping the catalog and sold it for like 300 and something million, um, to, uh, Abigail Disney, I think.

[00:23:31] Um, and, and they’d had some, and they’d had some talks, uh, Taylor did about maybe being involved with them, but Scooter still was going to. Receive profits after the fact. And, and that was kind of a deal breaker for her. So she has proceeded with saying, Okay, I’m going to rerecord every album I made. And she’s done it in a very exacting process where, like the first two, anyway, like there are some minor differences, but they are basically sound alike.

[00:23:58] And, and it’s, it’s been a very meticulous process. And she’s, you know, I think Prince and others have done similar things, but she’s certainly the first of this modern era to do this. And, and the whole reason was basically to, because she’s a petty bitch, which is again, a, a, a theme very common on midnights.

[00:24:15] Jeffrey: Hmm. What do you mean? Why? Why? Cuz she’s a petty bitch. Oh, you’re saying, you’re saying this is a, This is a high five moment.

[00:24:23] Christina: Yes. No, I’m, I’m saying, I’m, I’m saying like, I’m saying that No, no, I’m saying like, this is like a, I’m also saying, uh, this is like a core part for personality. Um, I want you to do the ad read. We’re gonna hear, uh, Jeff’s response, Jeff’s thoughts on, uh, midnights after, uh, our, our break from our sponsors.

[00:24:44] Brett: Add time.

Sponser: MindBloom

[00:24:45] Christina: time. This episode is brought to you by Mind Bloom. You just need to take better care of yourself. Is not a response to mental health struggles. You know all too well you live with them. That’s also a tailor reference. Incidentally, sometimes you need something more to achieve a real and lasting breakthrough.

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[00:26:32] Brett: I’m super bummed that mind Bloom isn’t available in Minnesota. Like I, I wanted to try this out and it was not available to me.

[00:26:42] Christina: Yeah, that’s the one thing you need to check. Make sure it’s in your area. But if it is, this is like, I think a great option for a lot of people who have been failed by regular medication and, and normal therapies.

[00:26:53] Brett: You will find out if it’s available very quickly when [email protected] slash Overtired. Um, I’m gonna get in trouble for this next ad read. I, uh, I, I, I tweaked it a little bit.

[00:27:06] Christina: Okay.

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Taylor Swift: A History (Part 2)

[00:28:56] Jeffrey: Bang, Splat. P Norwegian blood sports. Uh, one thing when people say the cost of a cup of coffee, one at a one at a time. What? What’s your dollar amount? Christina.

[00:29:10] Christina: like five bucks.

[00:29:11] Jeffrey: Okay, Brett.

[00:29:13] Brett: 2 2 75.

[00:29:15] Jeffrey: You’re doing that, you’re doing that, uh, diner coffee where they give you an early riser with no coffee, but then you pay two 50 for the coffee.

[00:29:22] Brett: I’m doing a double espresso in Winona, Minnesota, cost me 2

[00:29:26] Jeffrey: seven. I mean, cuz I like, as my former colleague who was female, liked to say of me, I like those girly drinks. Um,

[00:29:35] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say at this point, I don’t even know what, because I, I don’t go to Starbucks all that often, so I don’t even like know what their pricing is. It’s probably gone up though, as everything has, and if you’re gonna get a larger size coffee Yeah. Probably is more than five at this point.

[00:29:48] Jeffrey: yeah.

[00:29:48] Brett: How much is aio?

[00:29:50] Jeffrey: What’s a, what’s a dope?

[00:29:53] Brett: That’s what Starbucks calls a double espresso.

[00:29:57] Jeffrey: I thought that was a

[00:29:58] Brett: Yeah.

[00:29:58] Christina: that, so that’s so, so that’s cheaper than like the, the fancy drinks with the syrups and all the other stuff, But it’s still

[00:30:05] Brett: saying for me that’s a cup of coffee

[00:30:07] Christina: Yeah, that’s, but that’s, that, that’s, that’s not 2 75 though, at Starbucks.

[00:30:12] Jeffrey: Now I don’t, if you don’t mind, I have a few more questions before even I have anything to say. Um, and, and I’m sorry that these are such rudimentary questions, but I bet there are people out there that share them with me.

[00:30:25] Christina: Oh, I’m sure there are.

[00:30:27] Jeffrey: you’ve just sort of bracketed, um, the period of her career where she’s with big machines, Right.

[00:30:34] And that label

[00:30:36] Christina: that was, that was two thou, That was 2006 to 2017.

[00:30:39] Jeffrey: and what’s the first record outside of big machines? Is it a re-recording or is it a new

[00:30:44] Christina: No, no, her, her first one was Lover, which came out in, in 2019, um, and is sonically similar to midnights, although I think midnights it improves on it, which that was, that was the first one on Universal. And that was in 2019. And then in 2020 she dropped, um, uh, a folklore, uh, during the pandemic when no one was expecting it.

[00:31:04] And it took everything by storm. Then she dropped, um, uh, evermore as like the follow up, um, that, that, that she did basically between the, the times that they were released, like three months later. Then in, uh, I think in March of 2021, she did Fearless, which was her second album, but the first one to win album of the year at the Grammy’s.

[00:31:26] Uh, she now has three of those. Um, and so that came out, So that was originally released in 2008. The re-release was in, in March, I think of, of 2021. And then in November of 2021, um, she did the Rerecord of Red, which was her, um, uh, Fourth album, um, and, uh, and, and the one that fans have a, a really strong liking to.

[00:31:50] Uh,

[00:31:51] Brett: I’m a huge fan of, I’m a

[00:31:52] Christina: yeah, Red, Red is my favorite album. Red is my favorite Taylor album. Like, uh, so, so the, the chronology is, uh, debut Taylor Swift by Taylor Swift, Um, Fearless Speak now, which, uh, she wrote entirely herself. That’s gonna be the next rerecord. Uh, based on the, uh, various Easter eggs she put in, uh, one of the music videos that came out.

[00:32:12] Um, so every song On, on Speak now was, is written only by her. And that was sort of a response to people who claim the only reason she won the Grammy Fur album of the year was because other people wrote her work for her. And she was basically like, even though she’d written all the

[00:32:26] Brett: patently untrue as, as much as I might not be a die hard fan. That’s patently untrue. I know

[00:32:32] Christina: It absolutely, it absolutely is.

[00:32:33] But she was 19 years old and so at the time, she was the youngest album of the year when her, Billy Eilish has now surpassed that. But uh, at the time she was the youngest. And so there were a lot of people who were literally saying, The only reason you are anything is cuz you’re, you’re a puppet, basically.

[00:32:47] So she wrote an album called Speak Now, which was basically telling them Go fuck yourselves. Then she did Red, which is my favorite. Then she did 1989, which is like the one when she switched from country music to full on pop. And that was like her crossover album. That it very good, like I think it one of the, probably one of the most defining albums of the, of the 2010s.

[00:33:07] Um, uh, I think by, by any estimation, just in terms of cultural influence. Then she did reputation in 2017 and then Lover in 2019. And then, uh, yeah, we’re, we’re caught up.

[00:33:19] Jeffrey: And then at what point in this whole thing is the, So for me, I knew of Taylor Swift when this happened, but when the whole Kanye thing happened,

[00:33:29] Christina: That was, that was in 2009.

[00:33:31] Jeffrey: That was 2009. Okay.

[00:33:33] Christina: 2009. So, so, so the song that that was about was, You Belong With Me, which was off of her second album, Fearless. So this happens in, So the album, um, comes out in like November, 2008, but then that happened in August of 2009. Uh, she went on to then, uh, win the Grammy the following January.

[00:33:54] Um, but by that time she’d already released her third album, Speak Now. Um, no, I, I’ve got that timing wrong. She’d already won the Grammy, I guess, for, for Album of the Year by in 2009. Okay. Um, or has she? I don’t know. I don’t remember. Anyway, so the Kanye thing happened in 2009, regardless, that happened in, in August of 2009 at the VMAs.

[00:34:16] And that was the first thing that for a lot of people, Got her on their attention because she did that. And then she did, um, uh, Saturday Night Live, um, where she hosted and performed. And for a lot of people who didn’t listen to, to the radio or weren’t aware of things like that, was the president calling her a jackass was the thing that kind of like set her off and into becoming like, go, being like

[00:34:40] Jeffrey: that’s

[00:34:41] Christina: a best selling country artist into being like this, this much bigger like pop culture figure.

[00:34:47] Brett: I did it. So I still wanted to just randomly interrupt your answer with an I’m a finish, I’m gonna let you finish line, and I didn’t. I held it in adhd, impulse

[00:34:57] Jeffrey: I mean, did you hold it in though? In the end? What?

[00:35:00] Christina: No, no, you did.

[00:35:01] Brett: I waited. I waited. I waited for her to take a breath, and then I did it. And

[00:35:05] Christina: No, you did. And I was done with my thought. I’m proud of

[00:35:07] Brett: I feel it.

[00:35:08] I feel it in my bones. I was holding that in

[00:35:11] Jeffrey: you’ve come a long way. Thank you, Okay. So this is great. So that brings us, I mean, what what’s interesting to me and what’s helpful to me about what you’ve just shared is that it sounds like she’s still in the process of doing these rerecord, right?

[00:35:25] Christina: Yes, Yes. She’s only done two of them, so she has a bunch more to do,

[00:35:29] Jeffrey: it is stunning to me. So Def Leppard did that, but they did it like 30 years later, right? It’s stunning to me to think of, um, a pop star managing. One, all the bullshit around being a pop pop star, right? Um, two, just making new albums that are good or that you’re proud of. And three, in