293: Peace, Love, and WTF

Peace, Love, and WTF

[00:00:00] Brett:

[00:00:03] Hey listeners, you are tuned into Overtired. I am, uh, Brett Terpstra. We are back after a week off. Uh, I’m joined by Jeff severance. Gunzel and Christina Warren, how you guys doing?

[00:00:18] Jeff: Two in good high.

[00:00:19] Christina: Yeah. Doing well, doing well. Glad, glad to be here. Uh, glad to be back with both of you, cuz it’s been a while since we’ve, uh, done a pod together because you were gone Brett, and then we took some time off. So yeah.

[00:00:33] Jeff: Yep,

[00:00:33] Brett: Yeah. And, and before that we took some time off. We’ve been a little, um, scattered for a couple

[00:00:40] Christina: I,

[00:00:41] Jeff: summer schedule.

[00:00:42] Christina: I was about, I was gonna say it is the dog days of summer. Like, I, I don’t know if this is how it is at Oracle prep, but I know that like at, at Microsoft and, and also GitHub, like basically people don’t work the entire month of August. Like, that’s just one of those,

[00:00:54] Brett: that would explain. So it seemed really strange to

[00:00:58] Jeff: you? A bunch of Europeans over.

[00:00:59] Christina: [00:01:00] basically.

[00:01:00] Brett: So, so like Oracle had a bunch of layoffs, uh, like huge number of layoffs. And I don’t even know the full extent of it, but, um, I was on vacation when the big round of layoffs happened and I got back and things were so quiet. I was wondering if I had been laid off and they just didn’t tell me, like, kinda like edged me out.

[00:01:25] My band did that to me back in college.

[00:01:28] Christina: Okay.

[00:01:28] Jeff: know what? Sorry. Go ahead,

[00:01:31] Brett: just stopped inviting me to rehearsal.

[00:01:33] Christina: that’s how you found out you were out of the band? No, I was gonna say like, like genuinely, like, is everybody on your team? Okay. Like,

[00:01:39] Brett: Yeah. My entire team is like, we met stretch goals like all through last year and like our team. Shows, uh, real results. And I’ve been told by, by the like second in commanded Oracle, we’ve been told we’re safe, [00:02:00] uh, which is a big, it’s a big relief. I, I need, I need to have a job right now,

[00:02:04] Christina: Totally totally. Uh, no, that, that’s why I was asking before we got into any other, like jokingness stuff. I just wanted to like, make sure like, cuz cuz when I saw that and I, I, I knew we were gonna be talking and I was like, if something had happened, like I would’ve seen something, I would’ve heard something, but I, uh, I wanted to make sure that everybody on your team was, um, was okay.

[00:02:23] Jeff: According to a obscure, uh, business newspaper called the wall street, something, something the layoffs primarily hit Oracle’s advertising and customer experience. As company emphasizes cloud and healthcare, it services, healthcare, it services. Well, all right.

[00:02:40] Christina: I didn’t even know they did that, but, but

[00:02:43] Jeff: That’s a big company. Isn’t it?

[00:02:45] Brett: What’s healthcare, healthcare, like they just bought Cerner. So why are they laying off? I don’t what’s the

[00:02:53] Christina: another part it’s, it’s probably another, I, it’s probably another part of like a healthcare thing who knows. I mean, I’m just thinking [00:03:00] like, you know how it is with giant companies. Like there are, I think there are two or three different health divisions at Microsoft that are in different parts of the company.

[00:03:08] So who even knows.

[00:03:10] Jeff: Yeah. Well, but Brett, you and your basement are unattracted.

[00:03:16] Brett: Right,

[00:03:16] Christina: is important though.

[00:03:18] Jeff: it is important. Yeah.

[00:03:19] Mental Health Corner

[00:03:19] Brett: here in my bomb shelter. So, uh, let’s, let’s talk a little mental health. Uh, if you don’t mind, I’ll kick it off. Cuz it’s kind of short for me. Um, I, uh, I’ve been hypomanic for. A little over a week, uh, which is extremely long for me for a manic episode, but also I’m sleeping every night.

[00:03:43] Jeff: Will you explain for people who don’t know the difference between hypomanic? I mean, you’ve talked about being manic a lot, but hypomanic

[00:03:49] Brett: well, so I’m, I’m kind of, I’m probably misusing that phrase, but what I mean by it is, um, I’m sleeping like four to six hours a night. I’m [00:04:00] waking up. I’m not overly obsessive, but I’m definitely, um, uh, easily, easily get like one track mind on like a coding project in a way that I don’t when I’m stable.

[00:04:15] And honestly, it’s been overall very productive. I’ve had a lot of fun. Uh, it’s kind of that sweet spot of. Uh, being able to create new things, uh, with while still getting some sleep and not killing myself. Um, I do need to get back to getting eight hours of sleep. Uh, it is wearing me down. Um, but in general, like I’m not, not talking too fast.

[00:04:42] I’m not, uh, I’m not hiding in my office while I should be like hanging out with my girlfriend. And, um, yeah, like it’s, it’s kind of a it’s, it’s the sweet spot. I just, if I could combine this level of productivity with [00:05:00] eight hours of sleep, I’d actually be really happy.

[00:05:03] Christina: Well, that would kind of be the dream though. Wouldn’t it like if you could have like that amount of productivity and like eight hours of sleep, isn’t that like, like isn’t like the plot line of the, of like the movie slash TV series. Like

[00:05:12] Brett: yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh my God. When I saw that, when I saw that the movie and the show, I kept thinking that it was basically like the drug was focal in. Except without like, like a perfect version of Focalin. I was like, I need that. I want that drug

[00:05:30] Christina: yeah, no, I, I felt the same way. I was like, oh, this is like Provigil, but like better. I was like, hell yeah, I want this. Give it to me.

[00:05:38] Brett: Yeah. So that’s, that’s my mental health update. I’m I’m doing okay. I’m, I’m looking forward to kind of crashing and hopefully the, any, any depression that follows it will be equally as mild and, and I’ll just kind of, yeah. Anyway, I’m kind of relieved to know. I can still have mania a [00:06:00] little bit on my new med schedule.

[00:06:03] Um, I do like, I, I sadly rely on it. Yeah. It, it’s kind of disgusting. It’s sick. It’s sick. How I kind of rely on my bipolar to succeed in the world.

[00:06:18] Jeff: It’s not disgusting. It’s like a part, a part of your like core identity in the most pure sense. It’s like how you know how to live and how, you know, the experience of living has gone.

[00:06:30] Brett: I have found that since I’ve started being more open about bipolar, I get a little embarrassed to publish like new projects because in my head, I think everybody knows that me publishing this means I’m having a manic episode. Um, but

[00:06:46] Jeff: No, you know why, you know what hides it, you are incredibly well, um, sort of reasoned and pace, documentation and blog posts. You’re the way you write is [00:07:00] so just sort of con you would never guess this is someone who’s experiencing mania. When you, when you release something and write it, you can tell by the content like how much you are sharing that there’s been a lot of work happening, but it’s like you have such a calm and collected way of talking about your software and your

[00:07:18] Brett: quantity and quality.

[00:07:20] Jeff: That’s right.

[00:07:21] Brett: Thank you. All right,

[00:07:24] Jeff: There’s my, for the day Brett’s

[00:07:27] Brett: go? You want to go? You want to tell us your mental.

[00:07:30] Jeff: Um, yeah, sure. I mean, I, one thing I’ve been really grateful for this past couple of weeks is just, you know, something that I think you can learn it a couple ways. You can learn it by dabbling in Buddhism. Um, and, uh, like white liberals love to do like myself, you know?

[00:07:48] Um, and you can, and, and I have learned it through therapy, this idea of rather than, um, really just like banging on myself about some pattern of [00:08:00] behavior or way of being, and just going through these sort of like shame cycles, just having help to kind of step outside my myself and just be curious, like, that’s like a really key word to be curious, like, huh, I wonder why.

[00:08:13] I do that, or like, I wonder, I wonder like a big one that comes up for me is like, okay, so this thing I do clearly served me at some point, right. And probably even helped me or saved me at some point, but I don’t really need it anymore. And my, my body and my mind just didn’t get the message. Right. I don’t, I don’t need this behavior pattern to protect me, uh, anymore.

[00:08:33] And like being able to just be curious, that’s all, I, that’s kind of my mental health update is like, I, I have had those opportunities, especially through therapy over the last couple weeks to step outside of the, like the shame cycle and, and beating myself up and, um, thinking about all the ways in which, you know, behavior patterns make things worse for me or for others.

[00:08:54] And just to be kind of curious, and when I can step into that space, I’m so much. [00:09:00] Self-compassionate um, and that window is sometimes really short, right? Like you could be curious about yourself, maybe inside the hour of therapy, and then you walk it back into your world and you are not curious anymore.

[00:09:14] You’re just mad at yourself or whatever, but just my, my, uh, my gratitude for, um, for people and things and, and, and books and whatever that helped me to step outta myself for a minute and be curious has been, uh, a big deal for mental health over the years and definitely in the last couple weeks, um, otherwise cats before we recorded, I was like, I was actually like, not like running and trying to get ready to record.

[00:09:43] I was just sitting on the couch and my cat walked over and just like laid in my lap. And I’m like, this is what you’re fucking supposed to do. When I sit down, come over and lay in my lap and it was so chill and calm. And so I came into this podcast feeling good, but. That’s that’s a mental health update of [00:10:00] sorts.

[00:10:00] What about you,

[00:10:01] Brett: wait, wait, do you, when you, when you, when you do therapy, do you do, um, video therapy or do you go see people in person.

[00:10:10] Jeff: I do video therapy and, and, and something really important about the curiosity piece is I have, for the last several years, my therapy has been with a, a practitioner who can do EMDR, which is a sort of trauma therapy, eye movement therapy that like, um, essentially you go through these interesting, um, cycles where like you’re having normal seeming therapy, you’re kind of identifying an issue or something that’s particularly hard.

[00:10:41] Um, I’m gonna do the really quick version cuz I’m not, not licensed. So I can only speak from my experience. So, you know, you start your therapy as you would. Maybe over one or two or three appointments, you identify sort of a, something really sort of crystalline something. That’s like, yeah, this is a, an event or a, an [00:11:00] image in my head that is really sticks with me.

[00:11:02] Maybe it’s literally something that’s traumatic or it just maybe something that, um, causes you disturbance. Right. And with EMDR, there’s this kind of interesting, um, thing you do, that’s almost like a dream state a little bit. So the eye movement part is handled on video by literally two dots that just go left and right.

[00:11:22] And left and right. And the idea is your eyes just follow them. This is a very old, I mean, a trauma therapy, I think goes back to the seventies. Um, and I’ve used it for some big stuff. Um, and what happens is you identify the most troubling part of the thing you’re thinking of, right? Like what’s the most troubling part.

[00:11:41] It could be, you know, an image. Uh, it could be, um, a thought, right. And you sort of like lay that out. And then you’re asked to sort of, you’re asked to like come up with a negative, um, cognition. Like what’s a negative statement that you feel is true about you when you imagine yourself in this situation.

[00:11:59] Right. [00:12:00] Um, I am da, da, da, right? We all have, I am statements that are just things we’d rather not even say on a podcast, but we, we believe to be true about ourselves. Right. Um, and then you go through, um, this kind of series of, you know, all right, I’m gonna, you know, the, the therapist will do the eye movement thing.

[00:12:18] It can be done with fingers. It can be done with lights, uh, in your hand, if you’re in person and it can be done as I do it online, um, with just these two dots that bounce back and forth. And you’re just, the idea is just sit with it, sit with whatever the last kind of feeling you had was. And they do that for about, you know, 30 seconds, maybe a minute, What are you feeling?

[00:12:39] You know, you kind of just, you go through this like, um, repetitive thing where it’s like, you’re working your way into this image and what are you feeling? What are you thinking about? And. And this is the curiosity, right? It’s like it, it says, okay, so this is the thing you’re really stuck on this one image.

[00:12:54] Right. Um, now let’s just like go inside that image as like deeply as you’re [00:13:00] comfortable going. And you go through this cycle of like eye movement. Okay. What are you feeling that usually leads to something slightly new? Uh, okay. Let’s go with that. And, you know, eye movement, and it’s just this nice, really nice cycle and my experience of it.

[00:13:15] And that’s the best I can explain it, but others could do a good job. My experience of it is whatever I’ve brought to EMDR as something I need to work on. And it could be something like a major trauma. Or it could be. I mean, I, I once brought a certain kind of nightmare that I had repetitively, um, and, and whatever you bring to it, it just gives you the space to just be curious about it.

[00:13:38] And when you’re curious about it, in my experience, I always end up coming out on the other side, understanding it in a very different way than I did going in. Um, and so anyway, I do therapy by video and I do EMDR two things that I didn’t think would be possible therapy by video and EMDR by video before the pandemic.

[00:13:56] But I’ve really loved it.

[00:13:59] Brett: Yeah, I’ve been [00:14:00] like the, the brief foray I did into video therapy. Uh, it was, it was productive. I, I didn’t hate it. Uh, Felt like I would ha I would be more open and comfortable in like, you know, on a couch, uh, in someone’s office. But, um, I was just curious, uh, if, if it worked for you, so that’s good

[00:14:23] Jeff: well, what I dislike is, um, I almost always have to do it in my office. And it’s just hard to go from work to therapy, to

[00:14:31] Brett: right. Yeah. Same,

[00:14:33] Jeff: seat and the same, you know, like that. I don’t like that.

[00:14:37] Brett: Yeah. That was my, that was pretty much that’s what bugged me too.

[00:14:42] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:14:42] Brett: like I, I would, I would feel like opening up more if I weren’t also in the place where I conducted all of my business.

[00:14:50] Jeff: Mm-hmm

[00:14:50] Brett: Um, anyway, anyway,

[00:14:53] Jeff: yeah. And I recommend finding a way to switch locations if you can. I can’t always, but it makes a big difference for me.

[00:14:59] Brett: could [00:15:00] take my phone out into the woods and have a therapy session.

[00:15:03] Jeff: Christina, how about

[00:15:05] Brett: Yeah.

[00:15:05] Christina: Yeah, no, it’s actually funny. We’re talking about this because as soon as, uh, our podcast ends today, I’m actually, uh, gonna be talking to my shrink, um, and, uh, having my, my monthly, um, appointment with him. Um, but even though I’ve been seeing him for like 20 years, except for like the period of time that I ghosted him, um, more for more than a decade, like I’ve been seeing him, um, Remotely, like we’ve done stuff over the phone, so I don’t even have in person stuff.

[00:15:33] So it’s interesting. Kind of like hearing that experience. I think, uh, like I obviously wouldn’t be able to do the sort of, um, uh, some of the, the therapy that you do, um, uh, Jeff, where you need to see someone and like, you know, they’re, they’re looking in your eyes and, and you’re having that type of, of, of like, you know, that type of therapy.

[00:15:51] I wouldn’t be able to do over the phone. Uh, and he’s not really technic. Technically savvy enough for us to do a FaceTime or Skype thing

[00:15:58] Jeff: a thing

[00:15:59] Christina: that that’s like, [00:16:00] not him, like he’s in his seventies and, and, you know, he’s very, very good at what he does, but like not a tech guy. And so, uh, so yeah, so it’s interesting cuz I also have dealt with that over the years of like, okay, am I in a space where I can feel like I can be free to actually say what I wanna say?

[00:16:17] And, and sometimes that’s meant, you know, walking around outdoors and doing other things. I actually, this was nice back. Um, I, uh, I worked at Microsoft proper. I had an office and I had a private office for most of my time there. And that actually wasn’t terrible. A, it was nice because I could podcast from it.

[00:16:37] If I had to, like, I could either go in earlier or late and like had a nice like podcasting space, but B it was honestly nice sometimes because you know, like you’ve got the door closed and you’ve got something else going on. You know, somebody sees you on a phone call, like they’re not gonna bug you. And, you know, You can kind of like feel a little more free than you might, like if you’re at home and there are people, you know, around, you know, your [00:17:00] family and stuff, which can make things a little more awkward, um, when you’re doing a therapy appointment, right?

[00:17:05] Like, not that there’s like, not that anybody’s like judging or listening in or whatever, it’s just, you don’t always feel as free to be able to be open in that way.

[00:17:13] Jeff: for sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, man. So you do yours by phone and this is someone you’ve known since you were a kid, probably. Right? Like got it.

[00:17:25] Christina: I was like 18. Um, and, um, and so I trust him a lot and he does, you know, like, uh, you know, medicine, but also does, you know, like normal therapy. He’s, he’s like a rare, like, you know, shrink who also does like, like therapy. And there have been times in my life where I’ve definitely, um, uh, gone to him more frequently than monthly.

[00:17:46] It’s been, it’s been monthly for a while and sometimes I have to do it more frequently. I am gonna go on a tangent. Now my mental health is, is incidentally. It seems pretty fine. I am annoyed with this though. So apparently the DEA [00:18:00] just passed some new thing where to fill like, uh, like certain types of, of schedule, like, you know, two or schedule three drugs or whatever.

[00:18:07] Like you have to have like the, if it’s out of state, like your home address has to be on the script and the birth date and all this other stuff. And it totally fucked me because I went to get my Dexter. And they gave me this thing. It apparently went into effect on, on July 26th. And they’re like, yeah, sorry, we can’t fill your, your meds for you because it doesn’t have this stuff on it.

[00:18:29] And it has to be written by the doctor. And I’m like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, and then it was at a, doctor’s like a, I couldn’t, I don’t feel like I’d be confident in forging his, um, handwriting and, and style. Be which look, I, it, it, for certain doctors, I would totally have like, we’re all, we’re all friends with this podcast.

[00:18:47] I would do it, but also like the area, like if I were in like one of the rich neighborhoods, maybe it’d be fine. But in this case I’m like, I don’t wanna be like, somebody think I’m like a drug seeker. I’m like, no, I’m actually just trying to get my fucking pills filled. So, so [00:19:00] now I’m, I’m in like this frustrating thing where, um, I’m glad I have a call with him.

[00:19:04] And a little bit, actually, I was supposed to have a call with him last week. It, I would’ve been really pissed if he’d written me scripts last week that I, and mailed off that I wouldn’t have been able to use, but I’m like gonna be running low on meds. I’m leaving for Atlanta on Thursday. Cause my mom’s birthday is next week.

[00:19:20] So I’m hoping what I’m gonna have him do is just write it out, put all the shit that he has to put on it, according to the da sheds and then, um, uh, have him mail it to my parents house.

[00:19:33] Jeff: Oh my God.

[00:19:34] Brett: uh,

[00:19:35] Jeff: That sucks.

[00:19:36] Brett: Yeah, good luck.

[00:19:38] Christina: Yeah. That’s just the downside of like having an out-of-state shrink. Like if you were in state, it would be a different thing. But, but when it’s out of state, there are these different things. And apparently like it’s never been, um, discussed before. Like it’s literally like they print something out and they gave it from, from Walgreen’s.

[00:19:53] It’s dated 7 26 it’s like select field leaders. The drug enforcement administration has recently rescinded previous [00:20:00] guidance that allowed pharmacists to modify or add missing elements to controlled substance prescriptions. Because in the past, like the pharmacist could add that stuff effective immediately, all controlled substance prescriptions, all elements required by 21 C four, blah, blah, blah.

[00:20:13] Must be present on the prescription when it’s received, like just complete and utter bullshit.

[00:20:19] Brett: what problem is this solving?

[00:20:21] Christina: It’s not, that’s what I’m saying. It’s like, look, if you’re, because here’s the thing, like if you, if, if I guess that they’re trying to be like, oh, well, if you’re getting somebody out of state to write you a, I mean, I, I exact, I don’t know what they’re doing, cuz I’m like, if you are really that hard up for it, you’re just going to buy it on the street.

[00:20:38] Brett: Right. Yeah.

[00:20:39] Christina: you’re just going to buy it on the street and,

[00:20:42] Brett: and making things harder for people to get prescriptions. It’s just gonna make more people buy it on the

[00:20:46] Christina: 100%. No, that, that that’s the thing with this. I’m like, okay, well, thank you very much for like, making this really more complicated than it should be. And, and just like making me feel like I’ve done something wrong when again, like they said, oh, the [00:21:00] DEA has rescinded, you know, previous guidance.

[00:21:03] It’s like, but it’s also one of those things, like, could I have had an email Walgreens? I don’t know, you know, cuz this literally this happened like 10

[00:21:11] Jeff: dude, Walgreens is, I mean, I get all my stuff to Walgreens. It’s such a mysterious black hole. What do you know? And what do you not know? I don’t understand.

[00:21:19] Christina: right.

[00:21:20] Brett: so. My, my doctor, just to talk about Walgreens for a second. My doctor accidentally called in two of my scripts to Walgreens instead of my usual pharmacy. And, um, immediately like Walgreens contacted me to, to clarify some things and let me know when I could pick it up. And then like, uh, I just let it be.

[00:21:45] I was like, fine. Okay. Uh, I let it be for a month. And then like a week before my scripts were due, they like called to like, make sure that like, uh, the, to call to renew any scripts that needed to be renewed [00:22:00] and to, uh, and just to verify that they would be ready to pick up. And these are services that I have never had available through my, my mom and pop pharmacy that I usually use.

[00:22:10] And I gotta say it was it’s nice.

[00:22:14] Christina: Okay. It here here’s, what’s even better. They’ll send you text messages when you need to refill, and then you can use the app or the website and just like, have it, have it go through. It is really nice. I, um, my favorite pharmacist of all time, she, she left, but she was, uh, like the, the head pharmacist at, at Publix.

[00:22:30] Um, when I lived in Atlanta for a long time, Ray, who more than. Did some shady shit to make sure I had my, my meds and that stuff was covered when insurance wasn’t wanting to cover certain things like, like gray was the shit, but I will have to

[00:22:43] Brett: why I go to the mom and pop

[00:22:45] Christina: totally, totally. I, I agree. I was gonna say, well, cuz Publix, obviously, you know, big supermarket chain, you might not, you’re probably not familiar with it, but it’s a big supermarket chain in the, in the south, um, in Georgia and especially Florida.[00:23:00]

[00:23:00] Um, that was me rolling my eyes saying Florida. Uh, but, but this is like, can typically be like the benefit, like. Get a good relationship with some of those pharmacies. I don’t have a good pharmacist here. Um, in Seattle I did at the Walgreens that was on campus, but I can’t go to that one. I mean, I could, but I, I can’t really go to that one anymore since I, I don’t work at Microsoft proper, so I don’t, I can’t use their, their health clinic now, but there was a Walgreens on campus.

[00:23:26] It was great, but you’ve understood. Like you might not get the, the, the love and care, but you get like the ability. You get so many benefits, like they’re, they’re gonna like take care of you and, and, and prescribe things. Plus I will say the one nice thing, like, even though I agree, like it’s a, it’s a black hole of stuff.

[00:23:46] The great thing with Walgreens is that if it’s not like a controlled substance or whatever, you can, you can like move that shit to any Walgreens in the freaking country. Any Dwayne Reed, any Bartels, like whatever millions of things they own, you can just like, move it over and be [00:24:00] like, I’m in this city and I’m picking this up now.

[00:24:02] It’s pretty.

[00:24:03] Brett: I, I once ran out of meds, uh, out of, out of my ADHD meds while I was in San Francisco. And, um, I had the prescription, I actually had the written prescription, but it was from Minnesota and I had to go to, uh, six or seven different pharmacies in San Francisco, uh, before CBS finally, they were like, oh yeah, let let’s just call your pharmacist at home.

[00:24:33] And they called and they verified everything and they filled it for me. But holy shit, that was, that was a lot of walking. Uh,

[00:24:41] Christina: I bet. Especially cuz especially cuz like a lot of Hills, you know, lot, lot of places where you’re trying to find it. Yeah.

[00:24:48] Brett: And I was staying at the Mosser.

[00:24:50] Christina: Oh yeah, yeah,

[00:24:51] Brett: Uh, and they had like an on-call doctor and that was where I started. And, and he was like, cuz I was taking, I think [00:25:00] 40 milligrams of focal in a day at the time. Um, and, and the doctor was like, I can help you out with a few, but that is way too many. You and he wouldn’t, he wouldn’t fill the script.

[00:25:14] So

[00:25:14] Christina: Totally.

[00:25:15] Brett: the, the adventure began.

[00:25:18] Jeff: Can I tell you little quirk about my Walgreens? Uh, well, first of all, in Minneapolis, after George Floyd was murdered, um, some opportunistic folks decided to just start raiding all the pharmacies as part of the. Uprising and, or like sort of the, the ripple effects of the uprising. And so every Walgreens in my area was Lood.

[00:25:41] Most of ’em were burned and, um, , I’d not gotten my prescriptions ahead of time. And so I now have this tendency to try to, if I can get like three months worth of my prescription, cuz I don’t know when, while my pharmacies are gonna disappear, but my actual Walgreens, which I am so loyal [00:26:00] to, even though my wife has been trying to get us to switch across the street to this grocery store, uh, got shot up about a year ago, somebody was trying to shoot through the Bulletproof window to get in and, and, and you know, do the thing and there’s so they got a lot of the framings.

[00:26:15] If familiar driving up to a Walgreen’s like a big window, then you got the drawer that comes out. You got a speaker that never really works that. Great. Anyhow, these fucks shout out that speaker. There are bullet holes that I can put my finger through in the framing and fucking Walgreens took until about two weeks ago to fix that speaker.

[00:26:33] So we were having to like, and let me tell you, I know a little bit about electronics. That’s like a $3 speaker. And, and so we were having to communicate with them through the drawer. They’d open the drawer and like stick their face in the drawer.

[00:26:47] Brett: oh,

[00:26:47] Jeff: that’s the south Minneapolis Walgreens problem.

[00:26:50] Brett: speaking of uprisings,

[00:26:53] kinda, I want to, I want to talk about Woodstock 99. However,

[00:26:56] Christina: I was gonna say that that’s a really good segue.

[00:26:59] Brett: want to give [00:27:00] a brief recap of max stock before we get to Woodstock 99. Um, so max stock, it was a couple weeks ago now. Uh, it was, it was fun. It was very small this year. Uh, it was about a third, the size that it had been, uh, last time that there was an in-person max stock.

[00:27:17] It’s been a couple years due to the, you know, pandemic. Um, but first of all, Aaron, uh, who’s been on the show before a friend of the show, Aaron Dawson

[00:27:27] Christina: Front of the pod. Aaron Dawson. Yes.

[00:27:29] Brett: best presentation of, of the weekend. Uh, like there’s this tendency at a conference like that, to talk about your favorite apps and every white guy on the, on the docket talks about their favorite apps for doing this or that.

[00:27:46] Uh, and, and it, you get audience interaction. Everyone wants to talk about their favorite apps and, and it’s just the easy go-to thing. And Aaron didn’t do any of that shit. She did a presentation where she talked about, [00:28:00] uh, how to make music using logic or garage band to soundtrack your videos, uh, without having any musical

[00:28:11] Christina: love

[00:28:11] Jeff: Awesome. That’s a great one.

[00:28:13] Christina: I need to, and, and, and she, she recorded it right?

[00:28:16] Brett: she, she record it. Max stack puts it behind a paywall, uh, that you have to get like the digital pass, which I can help you guys get. But that’s a little frustrating for Erin who made the 14 hour drive, uh, to speak at a conference that was pretty low attendance this year, and now doesn’t have a public video.

[00:28:37] She can show for it. So I wanna, I wanna see if I can work with, with your organizers

[00:28:42] Christina: yeah, yeah. I, I would say so. I mean, cuz I, I, or, and especially like, If they wanna have a paywall for like 30 days or something

[00:28:51] Brett: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:28:53] Christina: but, but it shouldn’t be in perpetuity, especially like it, cuz if they’re not paying speakers and, and, and, and, and I get that, it’s like an indie conference and [00:29:00] whatnot, driving 14 hours to come.

[00:29:01] It’s a small thing to do that. I don’t know. Like, I, I think that would be something that I

[00:29:07] Jeff: Oh, that’s the, I mean, if they’re not paying, I, I have very strong feelings about not paying people. No matter how Indy you are, you can pull together some money to pay someone, right. Like ask your mom. Um, but, but then, then to put it on a, on a paywall, that is a shame. They can’t even make that much money off of it.

[00:29:23] Sorry,

[00:29:23] Brett: we have,

[00:29:24] Jeff: who you are, but.

[00:29:25] Brett: we had, we had some, some, some talks, uh, Jay Miller, uh, who happens to be like the only black guy at max stock. Um, Jay Miller, myself, uh, a couple of, uh, people representing the queer community. There was a lot of conversation about what max that could be versus what it is.

[00:29:49] Um, and there’s some resistance from the organizers. Uh, and I can’t quite pinpoint what it is that, that there’s, that [00:30:00] he specifically is, is scared of losing. If, if you bring in a committee, if you actually have max sack run by a committee of people representing, you know, a, a more diverse population. And there, I mean, a good portion of the attendees this year were, uh, mug people by which, I mean, 70 plus white guys, like

[00:30:27] Jeff: I’ve never heard that term mug people,

[00:30:29] Brett: Mac, Mac, user group.

[00:30:31] Yeah. Um, which,

[00:30:33] Jeff: I just got led in a little deeper.

[00:30:35] Brett: which these days skews much older.

[00:30:38] Christina: Well, yeah, cuz anybody who’s go well look, cuz anybody who’s gonna go to a user group. Like let’s be honest, like is going to be older cuz. Like, I’ve never, I’ve never purposely gone. I mean, like I I’ve gone to a couple of Matt. Like there was, um, a Omni did a, a Seattle, um, Mac user group thing that I, I went to a few times and then they had layoffs and then I felt bad cuz I was like, well, a lot of [00:31:00] the people that I really liked at Omni don’t work there anymore.

[00:31:02] And so that feels awkward if they’re doing stuff like, you know what I mean? Um, but that was nice. That was nice to meet people in the Seattle area and is a big area. But yeah, in general, it it’s like, it goes back to like use net days, I think. Right? Like, isn’t that the whole like mug and lug thing, so

[00:31:19] Brett: old, the graveyard persona

[00:31:22] is who shows up for

[00:31:23] Jeff: Mug and lug Linux, user groups and, and Mac user groups. Oh

[00:31:26] Brett: Wait, and, and, and no, no hate for, for that community. That’s fine. I just, I don’t pay to go to a conference, uh, to hang out with those people. I go to hang out. People my age, uh, with similar interests and I mean, it does serve as kind of a, a family reunion of sorts, but it also like max has the potential to be an actual conference, uh, that, that reaches out well, that’s one of the [00:32:00] things

[00:32:00] Christina: Well, yeah,

[00:32:00] Brett: like there are certain things they need to change.

[00:32:03] Christina: well, and maybe they, I mean, you know, the organizers, you can talk with them more, but it might come down to like, I, I, I don’t know. Cause I understand what you’re saying and I, I would be like you, like, I would, it would be good to have it. Like more committee have more open, you know, bring in a more diverse group of participants.

[00:32:23] Um, but I can also think that if it’s, if it’s people who you have, who’ve been coming to this thing and what your conference is, is a certain group of people. Who’ve always done things a certain way, even if it’s not expanding, like to your own peril, maybe like, that’s just what it’s going to be.

[00:32:38] Brett: that’s just a meetup. And if you’re just gonna have a meetup, call it a meetup.

[00:32:42] Christina: I mean, I don’t disagree, but I mean, what, what I’m saying is what you might have to come to terms with is that it’s possible that the idea you have, and the thing you’re thinking of is that if max stock doesn’t wanna do it, then maybe that’s another event. You know what I

[00:32:54] Brett: So, so that is absolutely something that’s been on my mind is if, if [00:33:00] max stock isn’t open to reshaping itself, um, I’m happy to keep going to max stock and perpetuity, but I would want to maybe like in Chicago, proper start, uh, like at first a meetup that could become a mini conference, but just a way to bring together all of the people that I would wanna see once a year, uh, and, and have a couple talks, but mostly like social time and just, I, I need to figure out how to make that appealing enough to get people from say California to fly in for a weekend.

[00:33:39] Christina: You need to talk to guy English as who you need to talk.

[00:33:42] Brett: Yeah. I have a list of, I have a list of people. This is, this is actually, uh, I’ve put a lot of thought into

[00:33:48] Christina: No, I’m sure you have I’m I’m I’m sure you have. I’m just saying, cuz like what, what it seems like you’re describing is single 10 and things like that. And, and so which, which was

[00:33:57] for, for people who don’t know, which was an amazing conference.[00:34:00]

[00:34:00] Brett: If there are like current meetups happening that are big enough, like I’m happy to tack on my ideas to something else that already is established. Uh, so I need to do a little more research and I have a few zoom calls set up with people just to find out like what they’re into, what exists already, uh, without reinventing the wheel.

[00:34:24] But anyway,

[00:34:25] Jeff: me know. No, let me add one thing ne not on the planning committee. Okay. Chicago is lovely. City lived there. Love it. Great. Like tech community, Minneapolis, hell of a lot cheaper to get to and stay in.

[00:34:37] Christina: And also better airport, frankly.

[00:34:40] Jeff: better.

[00:34:41] Brett: oh my God. Way better airport.

[00:34:44] Jeff: tech community. There’re already a couple of good tech conferences that come here every

[00:34:47] Brett: Oh, that’s really smart. Yeah. I,

[00:34:49] Jeff: that out there. Just don’t go to the Walgreens on HYA waha, cuz they shot up the speaker.

[00:34:57] Brett: Yeah, I lean towards Chicago just cuz it’s that’s where we [00:35:00] go for max stock, but you’re right. Minneapolis would be a better choice than Chicago. Um, alright. Alright. I will keep you all posted on progress there. Um, so, uh, last night Christina texted the group and said, uh, please watch this documentary on max stock.

[00:35:20] Max

[00:35:21] Jeff: next stock Woodstock

[00:35:23] Woodstock ’99

[00:35:23] Brett: Woodstock 99 and I had actually already finished it and uh, to watched it in horror. Um, Christina, what did you, uh, what did you wanna, how did you wanna present this?

[00:35:36] Christina: Well, okay. So first of all, um, did you ever watch the HBO max documentary on Woodstock from last

[00:35:43] Jeff: Okay. Thank you. This is different because fuck that one. And I, I thought we were dealing with the same thing and I was like, I am not gonna watch a movie that a documentary that talks about sexual assault and shows tits for the first five minutes of the documentary.

[00:35:58] Brett: Let’s be clear. This [00:36:00] is, this is, this just came out. I believe it was on

[00:36:02] Christina: it’s

[00:36:02] Jeff: gonna settle down.

[00:36:04] I just said tits for the first time online. I couldn’t forgot. Do I say boobies? Do I say,

[00:36:09] Brett: there,

[00:36:09] <