282: Nothing of Value

282: Nothing of Value

[00:00:00] Brett: Hey, welcome to overtired you guys. Hey, everybody. Um, I’m here as this. This is Brett Terpstra. Hi, I’m Brett Terpstra and I’m here with I’m here with my usual

[00:00:14] cohost, Christina Warren and Jeff severance. Gunzel how you guys doing?

[00:00:18] I know it’s a week after Easter but we recorded ahead so sorry

[00:00:18] Christina: We’re good. We’re good. I think, um, so we’re recording this no Saturday. So this is a, this is like the it’s weird. Cause, uh, I guess yesterday it was like good Friday and Passover and like, um, uh, like, uh, in Islamic, like holiday and something else, it was like all these like holiday, like,

[00:00:37] Jeff: You got your Ramadan. You got your

[00:00:39] Christina: Yes.

[00:00:40] Brett: we all still had to

[00:00:41] Jeff: got your Easter.

[00:00:43] Christina: Yep. Right. That is kind of interesting, right? Is that, is that everybody’s still had to work? Although I had, there were a number of people who were out, um, I’d get up, which, uh, was, um, nice that the people would just like take that time or whatever, but, uh, [00:01:00] Have you had to see your parents yet bread. Are you going to have to like spend Easter with them?

[00:01:05] Brett: yeah. In fact, I have a topic on our list to talk about how amazing I found this shortcut to having safe conversations with my parents. Easter did not come up because Saturday in between good Friday and Easter Sunday, I don’t at least a fundamentalist doesn’t mean shit. Like nobody cares about Saturday.

[00:01:25] So, so we had our Saturday breakfast and if I had showed up on Sunday, there would have been some conversations, especially considering it’s the full moon. And this is a werewolf Jesus year. Like we would have had, we

[00:01:38] Jeff: Not to your parents,

[00:01:39] Brett: shotguns and silver bullet conversations. Um,

[00:01:44] Jeff: where werewolf? Jesus.

[00:01:46] Brett: no, But, my, my joke yet all day yesterday was that’s funny.

[00:01:50] It doesn’t feel like a good Friday because. I can’t, I

[00:01:55] Christina: um,

[00:01:56] SEVERITY 1

[00:01:56] Brett: I’m sworn to secrecy, but, but [00:02:00] Oracle dev REL had a severity level one event and I worked til 9:00 PM on Thursday night and was up at the crack of Dawn on Friday to deal with this severity one event.

[00:02:18] Christina: so you’re sworn to secrecy, but let me just back up here, cause we’re going to go into, and to mental health thing, and this probably might have something to do with it, but okay. This is, this is the dev role teams things. So this was, or no, I was going to say you’re not, you’re not an SRE. You’re not like on-call why?

[00:02:33] Why are you on this?

[00:02:35] Brett: our, our role in this? was communication with customers.

[00:02:40] Christina: Gotcha. Oh, so, so you were not going to be at LaSeon. Okay.

[00:02:45] Brett: I don’t know what that means.

[00:02:47] Christina: Okay. Uh, so the, the joke here, a joke. So Atlassian has had an outage for some of its customers, like up to 400 of its customers. There’s been an outage that is at this point, I think about two weeks [00:03:00] long where all their services have been out like that lasting cloud has been out. And, um, it lasts again finally after like 10 days finally at the beginning of last week.

[00:03:10] And now we’re this week, I guess we’re recording on Saturday. Um, finally addressed the situation and sort of apologized and, um, uh, promised to post-mortem basically the problem was is that they ran some sort of a script without testing it. It wasn’t. Um, uh, compromising some, um, uh, user data and some other things.

[00:03:31] And so the situation that they were left with was if we restore from the backup, it will overwrite and, and lose all the stuff that the majority of our customers have done. But if we, you know, but, but because, um, if we don’t restore, if we just like, get the services up and running, then 400 customers won’t have any of their data.

[00:03:53] Um, they will have data loss. So they, um, the, the 400 customers that are impacted [00:04:00] by this had been in this kind of series of spaces where they might have access to some services at this point, but they probably don’t have access, but they definitely don’t have access to all of them. And, and last thing is having to kind of manually go through to do recovery stuff, which is painful, but the worst part of all this cause, you know, mistakes can happen is they didn’t bother saying anything to anybody for like days and days and days.

[00:04:22] So it was just, it’s just a terrible situation.

[00:04:24] Brett: Oracle is being proactive. I think, I think everything’s going to be resolved and they will actually give us, apparently Easter Monday is a thing. Um, and we don’t get good Friday off, but we get Easter Monday off.

[00:04:41] Isn’t there something the Monday before Easter too, like Monday something.

[00:04:46] Jeff: Oh,

[00:04:47] Christina: don’t know. It’s I just looked and on one of my calendars, Easter Monday is actually listed as a thing. Um,

[00:04:55] Brett: I never noticed that before either

[00:04:57] Christina: I think in some jurisdictions it might be, I think I have, [00:05:00] I have a feeling like it’s on a couple of holiday at calendars that I have. So who knows maybe it is.

[00:05:06] I don’t, it’s not an official holiday for us, but I totally understand that there are probably places in the world and maybe even like corporations who were like, yeah, we’ll give you Monday off.

[00:05:17] Brett: Oracle is very good about giving us anything remotely resembling a holiday. We get the day off, which for us, remote workers just means they don’t schedule meetings for that day. Um, but it’s, I love

[00:05:33] Jeff: the, I like my head kind of, my wheels started turning with remotely, resembling a holiday. I was like, what would that be

[00:05:39] Christina: Yeah. You’re you’re like, Ooh, what holidays can

[00:05:41] Brett: It’s national pet day.

[00:05:43] Christina: Well, I was going to say, right. Cause every day, if you look those stupid ass, social media calendars, where like every fucking brand has created, it is national hotdog day is national disease national that day. It’s like a,

[00:05:54] Jeff: secretaries who are also your sibling day,

[00:05:56] The Magic of Brand Calendars

[00:05:56] Christina: exactly. And, and, and, and then like, like, let’s do, let’s do these [00:06:00] hashtags and come up with like a calendar of shit to tweet.

[00:06:02] Um, you know, you wonder like, okay, could we take advantage of this? I knew it was when I worked at Mashable who I, I mean, I, I always say this about, about this stuff. Cause I do feel sort of guilty. Like I wasn’t directly responsible for that proliferation, but Mashable as an entity, especially in the early 2010s certainly was because we were the defacto, like site of record of all the kind of social media space and, and so marketers and, and, you know, France and stuff would, would use stuff that we published and things that we did as like ideas for how to do social.

[00:06:38] And so a lot of times, like when that whole thing took off of, of, you know, coming up with stupid stuff too, like it’s this day to celebrate on social media, we would write about it and then reinforce that it was a good idea. And, um, and then brands would oftentimes send us stuff and do shit. Like I would just get random things delivered to my office for.[00:07:00]

[00:07:00] Just dumb days, like national ice cream day national, the state national wide, like Ben and Jerry’s would show up, you know, and whatnot. And, and so I feel guilty to a certain extent, but I also did get free swag out of a lot of it.

[00:07:11] Jeff: Man, that was such a thing. Like I remember it was even like 2009. I think I worked for acne reader, which had been very much like a magazine about magazines. And, and so when they, when they created a website, there were, you know, way out of their depth and, and made a lot of mistakes and content. A lot of content went straight from, um, word doc drafts of articles with Teekay’s still in them to the web somehow.

[00:07:39] But what, by the time I came on and I was in charge of the website, uh, and all the content there, we had this publisher from Kansas Topeka, Kansas that had bought the thing and they were super into just like, you know, anything to get the clicks and, you know, they would send us all the different stuff, the Mashable stuff, whatever people were doing.

[00:07:57] But like, I remember there was a point where our [00:08:00] publisher, uh, called me and was like, question blog. We need question blogs and I want it to be videos. You ask a question, any question we found in our research that any question gets people to click for the answer. And, and I was like super opposed, and I was a super asshole about it.

[00:08:15] And so I prepared this very short video where, um, do you remember any, I mean, you could still do this, but when you first were able on, on max to put like clouds, moving clouds behind you and photo booth or whatever. So I had all these clouds, but I wasn’t in the picture. And then I rolled into the picture and I got really close and I said, you’re going to eat that.

[00:08:34] And I submitted that as my first question blog.

[00:08:39] It wasn’t a favorite. I wasn’t a favorite. Those are funny times though, do this. No, do this. You gotta do this. Lots of cliques. Do this. Oh God.

[00:08:48] Christina: no, I know.

[00:08:49] Jeff: to think about what I want to do.

[00:08:51] Christina: Exactly. And then, and then we were, it was always, I always felt guilty. Like I said, cause Nashville, we were both the example of what it would look like if you were [00:09:00] successful. And we were also writing kind of, um, you know, like, like tips and whatnot. And, and yet like sometimes we were successful for those things, but a lot of times we weren’t, you know, and it was just, we were trying, we were throwing stuff at the wall and trying to see, well, but we were experimenting with lots of stuff like Mashable successful back then because it experimented not necessarily because you know, it, it prescribed all those things.

[00:09:21] And I, I feel bad sometimes because I’m like that model didn’t have longevity, Mashable had to pivot a lot of times and didn’t pivot the right way, fast enough, um, to, to kind of save itself. And uh, I mean, it’s still around, but it’s not the same. And uh, so like, yeah, I look back on that era and I’m like, man, I’m, I’m real sorry.

[00:09:41] It all the smaller publications who

[00:09:44] Jeff: but like

[00:09:44] who were, who were you looking over at at that point? Was it like boiling boiling? And I feel like I can only think of what’s

[00:09:51] Christina: It was bus. It was

[00:09:52] Jeff: it was

[00:09:52] Christina: and it was, it was Buzzfeed and was tech crunch. And we were, um, we were bigger than tech crunch very early on, but they had the [00:10:00] scoops and, and then Buzzfeed came at us hard. We were bigger than them for a long time. I would say it was probably 20 11, 20 12 when they surpassed us.

[00:10:09] And because I remember having a meeting with, with John Steinberg, who was the president of Buzzfeed and Jenna, Freddy, the CEO in, uh, April, no shoot, February of 2011. Um, because I hadn’t even moved to New York yet. And I remember having drinks with them and they told me kind of vote, but the longterm vision of Buzzfeed was and what they were going to be doing a lot of their native ad stuff, which was very successful for a long time and how they were going to kind of scale themselves and kind of shift into being a different type of model.

[00:10:41] But they had been. And, and they’d wanted to partner with Mashable in some way. And I went back and I talked to the Mashable execs, and I was like, we need to partner with them because they are going to. They are going to be bigger than us. Like they are a threat and that, that never happened. And if it had happened, [00:11:00] I’m not saying that it would have changed the trajectory of anything.

[00:11:02] And in fact, it might’ve, you know, hurt both companies to a certain extent. I don’t know, but I saw that existential threat, like from meeting them and I was like, oh fuck, the wave is coming. Whereas I think it took another, probably six to six months to a year for the rest of Mashable to actually see, oh, Buzzfeed is now actually going to, to like kick our asses and, and, and it’s coming for our turf, but yeah, no Buzzfeed was the big one.

[00:11:30] And then, I mean, certain verticals would be the verge and other things. But the ultimate thing that killed Mashable was that, and I’d said this again, probably in 2011 or 2012. I remember somebody interviewing me for something about like, The, the changing nature of media and, um, what, um, needed to happen.

[00:11:48] And I said, we need to become the New York times before the New York times becomes us. And what wound up happening was in, in 2014, the New York times had like this big innovation [00:12:00] report and, and where they had like this. It was one of the most brutal self-assessments I’ve ever seen where the, the now publisher, but at the time he was some of the publisher and, um, just running like a special projects, things kind of a viscera of the entire way the organization was running and the, compared it to modern digital, um, you know, uh, digital like startups and, and the way people were getting news and basically said, we’ve got to diversify.

[00:12:23] We have to change the way our newsroom is structured. We have to do make all these changes and pivot, and they executed on that. And what wound up happening in 2016 when. You know, uh, mashville layoffs and changed directions and, and, you know, things, um, they ultimately were sold a year and a half later was that the New York times became Mashable before Mashable could be coming to New York times.

[00:12:45] So

[00:12:46] that’s ultimately what happened. And, and Buzzfeed, it was a similar thing where Buzzfeed was with, with Ben Smith then, and they’re pushing a news. Like they had a lot of things going for them, but they were never able to harness their business and kind of turn it [00:13:00] into something. The way that, that the times was where’s the times to their immense credit took, I think all the lessons of what the digital native publications were doing and applied it to their own legacy business and added in other things, you know, they added an audio, they added in games, they added in, you know, the cooking apps and Wirecutter and all this stuff and they, they succeeded.

[00:13:21] So, yeah.

[00:13:22] Jeff: Oh, my God. They’re just a juggernaut. Yeah.

[00:13:25] Christina: anyway, that was, that was a long tangent. Sorry, Brett. I know you’re very bored.

[00:13:29] Brett: Oh, oh, we have video now you can see you can see me rolling my eyes. You can see me just drifting off.

[00:13:36] Christina: I saw just the vacancy in your, in your, in your eyes.

[00:13:40] Brett: um, I would like to, uh, jump into our mental health corner. Um, I would like to lead it off by reading a four year old review of this podcast, because I feel like it’ll really put us in the right head space

[00:13:54] Christina: Okay.

[00:13:55] Brett: to stars. You’re ready.

[00:13:57] Christina: Yes.

[00:13:58] Brett: It’s not that there is anything [00:14:00] quote, unquote, wrong with this podcast. The couple sound like nice people.

[00:14:04] They are just unbelievably boring to listen to over tired really is the perfect title because it’s like they haven’t slept are in a half, half dream, half awake state, just rambling on about nothing in particular. I want to give it one star because I got absolutely nothing of value out of this podcast.

[00:14:25] Nothing even vaguely entertaining, but I give them two stars for at least trying.

[00:14:31] Jeff: Let’s see poor. Let me guess fella.

[00:14:35] Christina: No, I love, oh my God. I, I feel so. I feel so seen. And so dragged. Like I like, like, like I wish everyone could see the, the, the, the, the look on my face now, because I just have pure glee. Like, this is such a good takedown. Like I’m not even not, I’m like fair, honestly, fair, completely accurate. Like I’m not even mad.

[00:14:56] Like

[00:14:57] Brett: we do episodes with only the Vegas idea, what [00:15:00] we’re going to talk about and we just let, whatever happens happen. And sometimes it’s entertaining and sometimes it makes me drift off and you know, it’s all good. But

[00:15:10] Jeff: Will you, you interrupted for the sake of that listener or not listener you interrupted my followup questions about matchable and that era of I have so many questions.

[00:15:21] Christina: We’ll talk about that. Another point.

[00:15:23] Brett: we were on a train headed somewhere. I, I was only, only vaguely interested in, um, much, like much like this reviewer only vaguely.

[00:15:34] Christina: I was going to say, Jeff, you and I are just going to have like a media, uh, episode at some point and, and, and breads just going to like tune out. So

[00:15:42] Brett: can take a week off. You guys

[00:15:44] Christina: that’s what I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying.

[00:15:46] Jeff: We could bring a good, bring someone from Boeing, Boeing on to tell us what the hell happened.

[00:15:51] Mental Health Corner

[00:15:51] Brett: So I’ll give you my mental health update. Everything is as good. I’ve been sick. Like I’ve had some stomach stuff going [00:16:00] on for the last few days. And, uh, mental health becomes secondary when my physical health is nothing but pain.

[00:16:08] Um, but now I’m feeling better and I can get back to focusing on how fucked up everything else is. Um, overall though, um, I’m ha I’m having a good week despite severity one issues at my job. I actually think I thrive In that kind of environment. Yeah. Give me chaos Give me pressure. Give me deadlines. Give me like, I need this in one hour.

[00:16:34] I’ll fucking fly. Like I can do that. You say, I need this in give or take a month. It’s not going to get done, but you tell me I need this on my desk in one hour and I’ll get it done. Like I love it.

[00:16:48] Christina: Yeah, it’s funny. Cause I was talking to my shrink about that actually, um, on Thursday, um, during our, um, monthly appointment and that exact topic came up, um, he was giving me one of his, [00:17:00] his, uh, soliloquies on, on boredom and stuff again. And, and I was talking about how, like, for me, for my ADHD is similar to you.

[00:17:07] Like I need that sense of urgency and, and that, you know, kind of like the, the pressure to oftentimes do things and get things done. Like if it doesn’t exist, it’s a real problem. So like you and me, and

[00:17:20] Brett: arbitrary deadlines.

[00:17:22] Christina: 100% even arbitrary deadlines. The problem there is if you know, it’s arbitrary, then you can continue to put it off.

[00:17:28] But, but like

[00:17:29] Brett: Because I’m also a really good bullshit artist. And if I know I can get away with missing a deadline, I probably

[00:17:35] Jeff: my brain can spot a fake deadline from like four weeks

[00:17:39] Brett: Yeah.

[00:17:40] Christina: But when you know that there’s like actual, like, okay, it’s make or break time, I’ve got to get this done. And I only have this period of time then there’s, it’s like, okay, now I can go into focus mode. The whole thing had come up. Cause he’d asked me, he’s like, is it pretty easy for you to kind of get into, to focus on work?

[00:17:55] When I was like, no, I was like, I need the, the, you know, [00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Brett: pressure.

[00:18:00] Christina: absolutely.

[00:18:02] Brett: Yeah. I had a conversation with my psychiatrist. Also known as an appointment. Um, and, uh, and I asked if I could raise my, I have like 10 milligrams left. I could still raise my, my Vyvanse. Uh there’s I’m at 60 and it comes in up to 70 and she did not want to do that. Or, and I’ve also had like depression going on, um, sands, mania, but still depression.

[00:18:30] And she didn’t want to add any antidepressants to my already long list of medications. So she wants me to see a counselor, uh, like to find a psychologist. And I think it was Jeff actually helped me find the right guy.

[00:18:49] Jeff: was a Jeff

[00:18:51] Brett: I think, it was, I think it was that Jeff Guy sent me a, link to what, what was that?

[00:18:55] Jeff: oh, everybody’s psychology today. The website has a [00:19:00] therapist and other mental health, um, professional finder that is for anybody in the country. And I’ve found, uh, my previous therapist, I found my new therapist. I found, I mean, I’ve just found

[00:19:11] Brett: Yeah, I actually, I found a guy pretty close to home here that.

[00:19:16] specializes in ADHD and addiction and no, no reference to bipolar, but if you’re, if, if,

[00:19:27] Christina: right. If you both of those things, then it’s.

[00:19:30] Brett: Yeah. So I, um, I haven’t made the contact yet. I haven’t taken that first step, but I found my guy. I found he’s a guy, like I’ve never figured out if I respond better to male or female counselors.

[00:19:45] Um, I think, I think. It depends. I think it depends entirely on the person. I don’t think, I don’t think gender matters to me. If I, if I sense I can bullshit someone from the get-go I have a hard time opening up and I just, I [00:20:00] put up like this, I know I’m paying. Why, why light is someone you’re paying, but it’s just like instinct for

[00:20:07] Christina: I was going to say it’s an instinctual thing. Like you, you either don’t want to be judged or, or you don’t, you know, there’s like other things going on. Yeah. I’m trying to think about that. I don’t know. I think like you, I think it probably depends on the person. I don’t know if it’s a gender thing.

[00:20:20] I will say I’ve had my two successful psychiatrist slash psychologist. Cause I’ve, I’ve had, um, a few over the years. Who’ve been the dual role. Clearly my primary. Shrink who I’ve been seeing since I was 19. And, um, other than like the, the dark period when I ghosted him. Um, and then there’s a guy that I saw when I was in high school, but I’ve had numbers, numerous attempts.

[00:20:44] So like, it’s been men that I’ve been successful with and I’ve had some very negative experiences with, with women, but I do feel like I, if the right woman, like, I don’t feel like it would be a problem. Right. And I’ve also had some negative experiences with men. So I think it just depends on the person.

[00:20:59] Brett: same [00:21:00] here. Like, I, I don’t, I don’t think I respond better. I think it, I think it very much depends on how, um, how forthright they are and whether they ask me good questions from the

[00:21:13] Christina: Yes.

[00:21:14] Brett: If I feel like you’re asking stupid questions, uh, I will I’ll I turn off very quickly.

[00:21:20] Christina: Yeah, I was going to say, for me, it comes down to like, are they respecting my intelligence? And, um, like, like that’s a big one because a lot of times you go into these things and I’m like, I’m not trying to generalize, but this is just true because there are a lot of mental health and, and counselors and stuff out there.

[00:21:37] And a lot of counselors immediately go into like the placating or kind of like being a, you know, a condescending role like that, that can sometimes be kind of the, the default kind of reaction. And there are people who like, won’t respect your intelligence. You almost feel like you have to prove when you first get in the door that I valid for being here and, you know, [00:22:00]

[00:22:00] Brett: what gets me is when they ask questions about my history and I tell them where I came from and they seem shocked or like overly impressed. Oh, you were a heroin addict. Oh my God. What was that?

[00:22:16] Jeff: that’s a,

[00:22:17] Brett: Just take it in stride. Just accept that this is where I came from. Understand all the baggage that comes with, you know, that statement and fucking move on.

[00:22:27] It’s like, it’s like when they’re overly impressed by my lifestyle that I get, I get a little concerned about their wellbeing.

[00:22:36] Christina: Right. And it’s also like, how much have you seen? Right. And like,

[00:22:39] Brett: Right. For sure.

[00:22:40] Christina: like, you can also, you can respect, you mean like, Hey, it’s really great that you’ve been able to get through that and you can be like, impressed. But like, if you’re at that, like, like, oh my God, that’s so what it’s like, okay.

[00:22:49] Now you’re making me feel weird. Like, like, like now, now, now you’re, you’re making me feel like I, uh, like there’s something wrong with me and I don’t want to be judged, you know? I think that’s the big thing, right? Like [00:23:00] the most

[00:23:00] Brett: someone they’re so brave for posting a picture of themselves on Instagram.

[00:23:05] Jeff: right, right.

[00:23:05] Christina: exactly. It’s like, dude, go fuck yourself.

[00:23:08] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:23:09] Christina: brave. It’s like, no, you.

[00:23:11] Brett: the worst backhanded insult.

[00:23:14] Christina: It’s like congrats. It’s like, and in

[00:23:16] Jeff: It’s like, bless your

[00:23:16] Christina: might be, yeah. Like in some cases it is, in some cases there might be some sort of bravery involved in showing something really raw and emotional, but the response shouldn’t be, you’re so brave.

[00:23:26] It should be like, I’m really proud of you for doing this.

[00:23:29] Brett: So, Christina, how’s your mental health?

[00:23:32] Christina: it’s fine. I mean, I’m still kind of, I don’t know. I’ve been kind of in a things have been, it’s been nice being at the new job and kind of having a new thing to get excited about, but there’s definitely been some depression that’s been existing for a while where I’m feeling just kind of like lethargic and I’m having to like a lack of, you know, being able to, I guess, not focused, but there’s, there’ve been some issues with being able to, um, I guess deal [00:24:00] some of my anxiety to get some things taken care of, but I mean, all in all

[00:24:04] Brett: Depression and depression and anxiety at the same time.

[00:24:07] Christina: Yeah. They, they usually go together

[00:24:09] Brett: Oh sure.

[00:24:10] Christina: for me anyway. Yeah, yeah.

[00:24:12] Brett: For,

[00:24:12] me, for me, they tend to, we’ll be two separate issues, uh, that I deal with one at a time, but I can imagine what it’s like to deal with both.

[00:24:20] Jeff: Yeah. Like the dreamsicle of hell.

[00:24:25] Brett: I have found a lot of my stuff that I would claim was a focus issue has been very tied to depression for me. Um, my focus is it’s not, it’s not an inability focus. It’s an inability to get started on anything.

[00:24:41] Christina: Yeah. I have that. That’s that’s my issue too. And for me a lot about it is tied up in anxiety because it will be, I’ll have anxiety about starting I’ll have anxiety about it, about it not having already happened, which will then fuel more anxiety, make it harder. And which will only then make me depressed.

[00:24:56] So it’s like a self, like.

[00:24:59] Brett: [00:25:00] A self-fulfilling cycle of

[00:25:02] Christina: but there’s also like, like what’s, what’s what, what’s the thing like where, like, you know, the

[00:25:05] Brett: Self perpetuating.

[00:25:07] Christina: Yeah, exactly. Self perpetuating. There we go. Yup.

[00:25:10] Jeff: Hmm. That’s hard just playing hard.

[00:25:15] Christina: Jeff, how about you?

[00:25:17] Jeff: Uh, I’m doing, I’m doing good. Um, I’m um, I have a new therapist that had like, I think three appointments now, and I’ve just, they’re just the best. And, um,

[00:25:30] I’ve, uh, it’s caused me to reflect a lot because, you know, I’ve, I’ve only had three therapists as an adult. I mean, I’m sorry, I guess that can be a lot for some people, but like I had one for a little bit in my twenties and then about five years ago, I started therapy again and held that one for five years.

[00:25:50] That therapist retired and I went through another period of just not dealing with getting a therapist. And now I’m, I’m back on and, and, um, [00:26:00] It’s interesting to tell your story again. Um, you know, when I feel like, especially my therapist prior to this one who retired, like what did a phenomenal job of holding my story in her mind?

[00:26:15] And part of that was just good note taking, but it was like she could, after five years she could really, really like move quickly with me, you know? Um,

[00:26:25] Brett: that I like, I don’t have a lot of experience with therapy, but I imagine that really matters to not have to

[00:26:30] Jeff: yeah, it’s the like being witnessed as powerful and then being witnessed over and over. Cause like in your own, in your personal life with friends, with partners, whatever, like, just because of that dynamics of a relationship that is not therapeutic right. And transactional, um, You can, your story can get older.

[00:26:50] You can feel like your story is old and that could cause you to think that your story is something other than what it is, right? Like, oh, it’s old, it’s stale. It’s whatever. But if it’s still acting on you, [00:27:00] um, or the elements of it are still acting on you, then it’s still a real thing that needs to be addressed.

[00:27:04] And so telling my story over, it’s like, um, helpful to remember that healing one healing is like a thing that doesn’t end, um, Exactly right. But like that, it’s like a spiral I’m not in like this linear path with my inner work or my therapist or whatever. It’s like a spiral where like the first time around, I told these stories and I was, I was ready at that point for a certain kind of, uh, interaction with traumas and other things.

[00:27:35] And then I came back around and I was ready for a different layer. And so like, it’s just been important, an important lesson for me in like challenge myself, not to be like, oh God, this old story again. And just be like, Hey, you know, every time, every time someone is a witness to my story in a really true and meaningful way, something, some new thing is unlocked.

[00:27:55] And, um, this therapist is just spent so fucking good at [00:28:00] facilitating. Um, so that’s been really good. And like I’m also, I have someone who mad at who manages my meds. Who’s new. And I at first thought that this was not going to be a good relationship, but we only had one meeting and it was before I had really tried some new meds and we just had our second meeting and she’s just fucking awesome.

[00:28:17] Um, and so I feel like I’m in good hands there and, uh, which is good. Cause the meds I’m taking are just having like, not great effects on me besides the good stuff, the mental health stuff, like the side effects kind of suck. Um, and so there’s that too, but, but I’m good. And I wanted to say about psychology today to anybody listening that.

[00:28:37] Um, my, so my wife is a therapist and she, and I give that link out including to each other sometimes. Uh, so many times to people who are looking for a therapist, it seems, I think psychology today is like, always seem to me. It’s just kind of like a pop psych magazine

[00:28:54] Christina: That’s what I kind of thought of it as, but, but they have good articles. Like

[00:28:58] Jeff: But it turns out they also [00:29:00] built this just like very widely used, um, system to search for mental health professionals and, and the biggest.

[00:29:08] Yes. And the biggest thing I hear from friends right now who are contemplating therapy is just like, oh, everyone’s got a waiting list and you can’t get in. And it’s true. Like lots of people need mental health help. But what you will find, if you go search on this list, if you are in need of some things, first of all, you can really drill in, like Brett said, like you can say, Hey, I want addiction.

[00:29:31] Someone who knows about addiction. So it knows about ADHD, you know, but also it shows you whether or not they’re accepting clients. So it’ll say if you’d be on a wait list or if they’re not accepting clients and you will find somebody and especially that like one, one of the few good things to come out of COVID is that these people are mostly doing tele-health.

[00:29:49] Some of them are only doing tele-health. And so you’re not, you’re not limited to like the person that’s inside a 10 mile radius. It’s more like in your state, you know? So I just really recommend to people. Like, even if you’re like, [00:30:00] not sure, like anyone from like someone who knows they need a therapist and they’ve been putting it off to someone who’s like me, I’m not sure I need one.

[00:30:07] And I like go there and just read what people say. And let me tell you, there are some, there are every once in a while you see someone’s profile on your. There was this one young woman who posted this photo where I’m like, that’s your photo for being a couples therapist? Like, it was just this like very social media, like sassy, like turned from an angle photo.

[00:30:25] So like, you know, keep your antenna up. But, um, there’s some really good shit there. And I hope somebody who’s listening will decide to try it as Brett dead.

[00:30:34] Christina: I love that.

[00:30:36] Brett: you know what? This would be an amazing transition

[00:30:38] Christina: Well, that’s exactly what I was about to do,

[00:30:40] Brett: I could see, I could see your face. I could see you working on this segue.

[00:30:44] Sponsor: Zocdoc

[00:30:44] Christina: Totally. Totally. So, I mean, if you are somebody who like Jeff would like to, uh, find a therapist and you want to do this, I think a great place to go. In addition to that resource, uh, from a psychology today, um, what you can then do is you can use [00:31:00] Zoc doc as a way to make sure that they take your insurance and, and make bookings and appointments, which is awesome.

[00:31:06] So there are tons of amazing doctors out there, and there’s some great therapists out there as, uh, Jeff has discovered. Um, and, and as, as Breton and I have both experienced, um, but really the only thing that matters are the ones that actually take your insurance. Like, that’s a big thing. You can have all the, you gonna have the best doctor in the world, but if they don’t take your insurance for a lot of.

[00:31:25] Can I kind of put them out of consideration. So Zoc doc, you can focus on doctors who are in network, putting you on the path to see the doctors who were right for you. So no more wasting time hunting down, aunt Shirley is cash only chiropractor or the dentist that your coworker recommended who’s out of your network.

[00:31:43] Then their Zoc doc is a free app that shows you doctors who are patient reviewed. Take your. And are available when you need them. So you can read up on local doctors, you can get verified patient reviews and you can see what other real humans had to say about their visit. And when you walk into [00:32:00] that doctor’s office, you are basically set up to see someone in your network who gets you.

[00:32:04] So you can go to doc.com, choose a time slot. And whether you want to see a doctor in person or as a Jeff was mentioning earlier, if you want to do a video visit and just like that, you’re booked, you can find the doctor that’s right for you and book an appointment that works for your schedule every month.

[00:32:20] Millions of people use doc, doc. I’m one of them. It’s my go-to whenever I need to find and book a doctor. And, uh, I mean, I, I, as I said on this podcast, many times I’ve been using doc doc for over a decade. It’s great. And in the chaotic world of healthcare, let Zoc doc be your trusted guide to find a quality doctor in a way that is surprisingly pain-free with doc doc, you can get your docs.

[00:32:42] Brett: Uh,

[00:32:43] Christina: there. Exactly. That’s that’s clever. All right. So go to Zoc doc.com/ over-tired and download the Zoc doc app for free. Then you can start your search for a top rate of doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That’s Z O C D O [00:33:00] c.com/overtired that’s Zoc doc.com/overtired.

[00:33:05] Brett: Zoc doc.com/overtired. Thank you, Christina.

[00:33:08] Sponsor: New Relic

[00:33:08] Brett: Jeff, back to you, actually. No, I’m lying. Um, we’re gonna, we’re gonna make this a sponsor block.

[00:33:15] Christina: Yes.

[00:33:16] Brett: So we had, we had a segue to this next one early on in the show. Like first topic would have segues perfectly into this, but it was too early. Um, but if we can, if we can go back in our memories to this severity one issue that kept me up late at my day job.

[00:33:33] Jeff: I’m there. I’m there.

[00:33:35] Brett: If you’re a software engineer you’ve been there.

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