On with Kara Swisher

Thirty-one years after founding Chipotle, Steve Ells is back with what he hopes will be another fast-casual dining revolution: the highly-automated, plant-based food chain, Kernel. Ells says that streamlining and automation will allow him to pay workers well above minimum wage and give them more benefits – all while reducing labor costs. But don’t call it a robot restaurant! Kara and Ells discuss the mechanics and philosophy underpinning Kernel’s concept and the downstream effects of integrating tech into our food. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find Kara on Threads/Instagram @karaswisher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In her latest play, Sally & Tom, Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright Suzan-Lori Parks tackles what is, arguably, one of the most complicated and personal chapters in American history: the relationship between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings, the enslaved woman who gave birth to at least six of his children. Kara and Parks discuss the play in the context of her past work, as well as our nation's trend of revising history to sand down its rough edges, and why wrestling with our nation’s past is a sign of love. Sally & Tom is now playing at the Public Theater. You can buy tickets at: https://publictheater.org/productions/season/2324/sally--tom/ Correction: Suzan-Lori Parks' Plays for the Plague Year begins in March 2020. In a previous version of this episode, we said it began in March 2022. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find Kara on Threads/Instagram as @karaswisher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When Kara first met Senator Maria Cantwell in the 90s, she was a tech executive at an early player in the streaming media industry called RealNetworks. Now, the Democrat from Washington is the chair of the powerful Senate Commerce Committee, and she recently released a draft of the American Privacy Rights Act. For the first time in a long time, it looks like a tech privacy bill might have a decent shot at actually becoming law. Senator Cantwell joins the podcast to discuss her bill, her approach to tech legislation, and the biggest (and arguably most controversial) tech bill in recent history: the TikTok divestment bill. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find Kara on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kara discusses the “pacing threat” that is China – from TikTok to cyberattacks to semiconductors and Taiwan – with two cybersecurity experts: Dimitri Alperovitch, co-founder and former CTO of CrowdStrike and author of the new book World on the Brink: How America Can Beat China in the Race for the 21st Century, and Chris Krebs, Chief Intelligence Officer at SentinelOne and former Director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency under President Trump (until he was fired in a tweet for batting down Trump’s election lies). The episode features an expert question from a previous On guest: former Congressman Mike Gallagher, the Republican from Wisconsin who chaired the Select Committee on the CCP. If you like this episode, make sure you go back to listen to that conversation as well. This conversation was taped live at American University on April 19, 2024. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find Kara on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Despite a recent uptick, President Biden’s approval rating and his poll numbers against Donald Trump are far from stellar. And with inflation remaining stubbornly high and gas prices moving up, Biden and his party seem eager to focus voters on abortion rights — and Republicans in Arizona and Florida have given him plenty of material to work with. To understand how the abortion issue might play out in November — and how the Dobbs decision is already affecting millions of people across the country, even in states without bans — we turn to three experts: Shefali Luthra covers abortion for The 19th, and her book, “Undue Burden, Life and Death Decisions in Post Roe America,” comes out in May; Sarah McCammon is a national political correspondent for NPR and the co-host of the NPR Politics Podcast. Her book, “Exvangelicals: Loving, Living and Leaving the White Evangelical Church,” came out in March; and Mary Jo Pitzl is a senior state government reporter for the Arizona Republic who’s been reporting in Arizona for decades. She’s also the host of The Gaggle, an Arizona politics podcast. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find Kara on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Is Gen Z’s mental health in decline because their “phone-based childhood” has flooded them with anxiety and ruined their sleep? Or is there a more complex mix of factors at play? Jonathan Haidt makes his case for the former explanation in his latest book, The Anxious Generation. While many people intuitively agree with his argument that phones and social media are ruining kids, some researchers are accusing Haidt of coming up with a grand overarching theory that isn’t supported by the data. Kara brings the moral psychologist and NYU professor onto the podcast to discuss his ideas, the criticism he’s gotten, and his proposed solutions to the problem. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find Kara on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yahoo, the one-time "oracle of the internet", has had many iterations in its 30 year history - and private equity is betting that Yahoo CEO and digital media veteran Jim Lanzone can bring back its relevance. Kara has been covering Yahoo since its inception and has known Lanzone - who has had leadership stints at Ask.com, CBS and Tinder - almost as long. They discuss Jim's vision for the new Yahoo, what’s going on with search, how he’s integrating AI, and whether there could be another Yahoo merger or IPO on the horizon. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“Flood the zone with shit.” It’s a zinger and a strategic imperative, from the oh-so-eloquent Steve Bannon, being expertly executed by Donald Trump and the MAGA-fied GOP. To help us make sense of what our information morass means for the 2024 election, we’re joined by three political disinformation experts: Nina Jankowicz, a disinformation researcher, the former executive director of the Disinformation Governance Board at the Department of Homeland Security, and the author of "How To Lose the Information War"; Sasha Issenberg, a journalist and the author of five books, most recently, “The Lie Detectives”; and Barabara McQuade, a former U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan who teaches law at the University Michigan and recently authored “Attacks from Within.” Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are a lot of Trump/Hitler comparisons being thrown around these days. So we went to the source, as chronicled by historian Timothy Ryback in his new book Takeover: Hitler’s Final Rise to Power. Ryback zooms in on the final six months before Adolf Hitler dissolved the government of the Weimar Republic, revealing that Nazi Germany was not inevitable. Kara and Ryback discuss the Berlin power players that misjudged Hitler’s bankrupt party, and the (not just rhetorical) similarities between the ascendance of Hitler and Donald Trump. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joan Nathan, the “doyenne of Jewish-American food” and a pillar of the DC dinner party scene, joins us to talk about her memoir, “My Life in Recipes.” Nathan has written a dozen cookbooks, but this is her most personal, drawing on family recipes from the old country that go back centuries. She and Kara discuss everything from Golda Meir’s terrible matzo balls, to the limits of gastro-diplomacy, the so-called “Hummus Wars,” and the war in Gaza. Please note that while this discussion touches on chef Jose Andres’ World Central Kitchen and its work in Gaza, the episode was recorded before the Israeli airstrikes that killed seven of the organization’s aid workers. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Author Geraldine DeRuiter a.k.a. The Everywhereist joins Kara to talk about her new book If You Can’t Take the Heat: Tales of Food, Feminism, and Fury. They talk about some of the author’s viral moments and the backlash she experienced after calling out two famed Italian chefs, the inherent sexism in the food industry (from dining rooms to professional kitchens), and how societal stigmas around beauty and our bodies have distorted our relationship to food. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kara sits down with Brené Brown, researcher, author, and vulnerability expert, in this edition of the Burn Book book tour. Brené tries to bring out our host’s vulnerable side, asking about the life lessons Kara has learned from the tech titans she confronts in her memoir. This inevitably leads to a discussion of why Kara believes nice guys (like Mark Zuckerberg) can still be dangerous, and about her disappointment with Elon Musk. This interview was taped at the Chicago Humanities Festival on March 21, 2024. You can hear more from Brené Brown on her two podcasts, Unlocking Us and Dare to Lead. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The effort to ban TikTok in the US is back in the spotlight as a new bill has passed through the House and is now in the Senate. Today, we have a lively debate with two guests who bring competing analysis to the table. Alex Stamos is Chief Trust Officer at SentinelOne and the former Chief Information Security Officer at Facebook (he can often be heard on Moderated Content). Taylor Lorenz is a columnist at the Washington Post covering technology and culture and hosts the new VoxMedia podcast, Power User. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reddit has been around for 19 years, but today the social media platform goes public and starts a new chapter. Its listing on the New York Stock Exchange also marks the first major social media IPO since 2019. Kara speaks to co-founder and CEO Steve Huffman about money, content moderators and whether the subreddit r/WallStreetBets could make this one a meme stock. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the past decade, the European Commission has taken on Big Tech under the leadership of Executive Vice President Margrethe Vestager, inspiring fear and griping from tech CEOs the world over. Today, Vestager reveals why, despite being one of the toughest regulators in the business, she considers herself a tech optimist. She and Kara discuss the impact of EU antitrust lawsuits - including the most recent $2 billion fine against Apple - whether EU tech regulations passed to improve safety and competition (the Digital Markets Act and the Digital Services Act) could hamper innovation, and if guardrails created for the future (the AI Act) might come too late. Plus: what’s next for Vestager when her term ends this year? Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We're continuing book tour week in this bonus episode of “On.” Kara takes the SXSW stage with Mark Cuban, the entrepreneur turned "Shark Tank" star who is currently focused on his healthcare venture CostPlus Drug Company. The two have known each other for decades and Cuban was even featured in the "Mensch" chapter of Burn Book — a short chapter at that. On stage, Mark grills Kara on how few women are featured in her book, what makes her so successful and why she didn't just call the book "told you so." Plus, Cuban shares his theory on why a possible forced divestiture of TikTok by the US government may not yield many buyers – he suggests that the social media giant isn't worth much as long as the algorithm is not for sale. This episode was recorded on March 10, 2024 at SXSW. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We continue Kara's tour of her memoir Burn Book: a Tech Love Story as she gets candid with Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos about the nonsensical nature of 1990s/early 2000s tech culture, how technology disrupted media, where Kara's candor comes from and Ted's short-lived career as a journalist. This interview was taped at Live Talks LA on March 4,2024. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, we join Kara on tour as she speaks with some of the most influential names in tech about her memoir Burn Book: a Tech Love Story. Today's stop: San Francisco’s City Arts & Lectures with Sam Altman, OpenAI’s co-founder and CEO (and recently reinstated Board Member). This time, it’s Kara in the hot seat and Altman asking the questions. The two talk about last year’s OpenAI drama, Kara’s live coverage of Sam’s ouster and return, the lawsuit Elon Musk has brought against OpenAI and the public spiral that Musk has taken in recent years. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In high school, Reed Jobs was a summer intern in oncology labs while his dad, the late Apple co-founder and tech icon Steve Jobs, was battling pancreatic cancer. In his biography, Steve is quoted as calling his son’s interest in biotech the “silver lining” of his illness – and making cancer “non-lethal” has become Reed’s life mission. In 2023, he spun off the venture capital firm Yosemite from Emerson Collective (the philanthropy and family office founded by his mother, Laurene Powell Jobs) to focus on cancer research and biotech. Kara and Reed talk about the research-to-start up pipeline, how he’s been influenced by both of his parents, and whether AI, mRNA or CRISPR will be game changers for cancer patients. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tomorrow is Super Tuesday - the nation's biggest primary vote - and hundreds of delegates are up for grabs. But what impact do primaries have when the nation seems resigned to a rematch between President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump? David Chalian, CNN Political Director (i.e. the man who makes the call on election night), shares his thoughts on the stakes for 2024, why Nikki Haley is still in the race, and which state he believes matters most this November. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week marks the release of Kara’s memoir, Burn Book: A Tech Love Story and the launch of her national book tour. At events from New York to Seattle, some of the tech CEOs, politicians and other bold names Kara writes about in her book will be putting her in the hot seat. Today’s episode is the first of these conversations: former CNN anchor Don Lemon interviewed her about her career and the tech giants she’s slain, and drops some intel about his own new show on X. This conversation was taped Monday, February 26th, at NYC’s 92nd Street Y. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Renowned litigator Roberta (Robbie) Kaplan says she’s a born fighter. In January she won one of those fights when a jury ordered Donald Trump to pay Kaplan’s client, E. Jean Carroll, $83.3 million dollars for defamation. Kara and Robbie talk about why Trump’s behavior in and out of the court cost him. They also discuss the state of LGBTQ+ rights more than a decade after Kaplan successfully championed same-sex marriage before the Supreme Court. And Kaplan unpacks how Elon Musk and others with deep pockets are using the law to try to silence their critics (and why they won’t win). Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Actor Paul Giamatti seems to have perfected the hyper-articulate, slightly depressed curmudgeon – and this year, it might land him an Oscar. Kara and Paul talk about why his role in The Holdovers hit close to home, the challenges of developing a multi-season TV character like Billions’ D.A. Chuck Rhoades, and how a “chinwag” led him to co-host a podcast about metaphysics, time travel and UFOs. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re replaying a conversation that Kara taped last spring with none other than Brooke Shields. Shields became a teenage superstar through her roles in “Pretty Baby” and “Blue Lagoon” as well as the famous Calvin Klein ads (“Do you want to know what comes in between me and my Calvins? Nothing.”). In her new Hulu documentary, “Pretty Baby: Brooke Shields,” she talks about how she sees those hypersexualized roles today and how she survived life in an industry that she says did nothing to help her. Shields also revisits her complex relationship with her mother, who introduced her to modeling and acting, and how Shields now counsels her own two teenage daughters about feeding the social media “monster.” Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Writer and director Cord Jefferson’s first feature film, American Fiction, has been nominated for five Oscars, including Best Picture and Best Adapted Screenplay. Jefferson was once a journalist, but shifted into TV and film a decade ago, working on shows including Succession, The Good Place, and Watchmen, for which he won an Emmy for his writing. Kara and Cord discuss why Percival Everett’s book Erasure spoke to him so personally, how satire helped him break out of the “race beat,” and what projects he’s got in the pipeline. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

More than 35 years after its release, Tracy Chapman’s eponymous debut album – and the single Fast Car – hit #1 on the charts last week, fueled by her performance with country star Luke Combs at the Grammy Awards. Kara speaks with Lydia Polgreen of the New York Times’ Matter of Opinion podcast, music reporter Maura Johnston, and Estelle Caswell, formerly of Vox Pop Earworm, about why an album written at the end of the Reagan era, full of songs about social injustice, racial tensions and striving for upward mobility, has struck a chord with Gen Z audiences. Plus: they talk about the changing music industry and another surprise Grammy comeback: the legendary Joni Mitchell. You can watch the original performances on the Grammy Awards website. Other questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rahm Emanuel is the ultimate political insider: He’s worked closely with three presidents, he’s been mayor of the nation’s third largest city (Chicago), and he’s now “redefining” diplomacy as ambassador to Japan. Kara talks to Rahm about the “new” Japan he sees emerging today, the importance of strong Asia-Pacific collaboration to counter China, his thoughts on a probable Biden-Trump rematch in November, and whether or not Taylor Swift will make it back from Tokyo in time for the Superbowl. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kara got a sneak peek of the Apple Vision Pro, and sat down before the official launch with tech reporters Joanna Stern, Nilay Patel and Mark Gurman to discuss why it took so long for Apple to get into the world of "spatial computing" headsets, who will buy it at a steep $3500 price tag, and what Steve Jobs might make of this new device. Note: This episode was taped on Wednesday, January 31st. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, our guest is acclaimed director and screenwriter Ava DuVernay, known for the Oscar-nominated films “Selma” and “13th.” Her latest film “Origin” is an adaptation of Isabel Wilkerson’s 2020 bestseller “Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents.” We explore how she adapted the ideas of a nonfiction book into a gripping narrative film and why – instead of major Hollywood studios – DuVernay secured funding for “Origin” from philanthropists, including the Ford Foundation, Melinda Gates, Laurene Powell Jobs and Anne Wojcicki. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How does someone with more than five decades of political reporting under her belt assess the current state of the union? For the past year, former PBS NewsHour anchor and current senior correspondent Judy Woodruff has been touring the country for a new project, America at a Crossroads, reporting on the divisions that plague our nation. Kara speaks with Woodruff about the roles that both politicians and the media play in our growing polarization, whether journalists can be “truthful, not neutral” (as CNN’s Christiane Amanpour has said) and what recent media consolidations (and proposed cuts to public broadcasting) mean for our democracy. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As Pennsylvania’s Attorney General, Josh Shapiro successfully defended the state election process in 2020 against suits brought by former President Donald Trump and his allies. We speak with Governor Shapiro about his administration's preparations for a likely Trump/Biden rematch in November. Plus: how his “Get Sh*t Done” motto is working out with a divided state legislature, why he’s launched a pilot project for using generative AI in government, and his reflections on the surge in antisemitism and how the controversy played out at University of Pennsylvania, where he is a non-voting member of the Board of Trustees. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Donald Trump is an American figure decades in the making. That’s the argument historian and professor Heather Cox Richardson makes in her latest book: “Democracy Awakening: Notes on the State of America.” Richardson lays out her case, discusses her change of heart on Biden (whom she’s interviewed twice) and answers a question from former Representative Adam Kinzinger. She also sheds some light on whether she will take her popular newsletter business away from Substack, which has recently come under fire. Questions or comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From therapeutic-assisted MDMA to decriminalized psilocybin and microdosing, movements to legalize psychedelics are everywhere. California-based Joe Green is a prominent voice in the movement, as the co-founder and President of the Psychedelic Science Funders Collaborative (PSFC). Kara asks him about the recent unfavorable headlines (including concerns over Elon Musk’s potential drug use and Matthew Perry’s death from ‘acute effects of ketamine’) and poses a question from Investigative Reporter Olivia Goldhill about how proselytizers can be held to account. Questions or comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Before the OpenAI Drama which pit AI enthusiasts (accelerationists) against doomers (decelerationists) we had a conversation with Stanford computer scientist and pioneering AI researcher, Dr. Fei-Fei Li. While cognizant of the challenges AI poses — including disinformation, polarization, biases, a loss of privacy and job losses that could lead to unrest — Li is a fierce advocate for the humane development of artificial intelligence and for increased diversity in the field. We taped this episode October 10, 2023 but wanted to re-air it in light of the ongoing debate about AI. Questions or comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trump’s back. Today, we go to a panel of experts to discuss his 2024 legal woes, dangerously escalating rhetoric, and what he might do if he retakes the White House in 2025. Our guests are New York Times senior political correspondent Maggie Haberman, Vox senior correspondent Ian Millhiser, and ABC News Chief Washington Correspondent Jonathan Karl, who recently authored “Tired of Winning: Donald Trump and the End of the Grand Old Party.” Plus: former Trump White House communications director Alyssa Farah Griffin submits a question. Note: this conversation was taped Tuesday, January 9, as the former president was sitting in a DC court and before the recent Republican debates (and Chris Christie’s announcement that he’d be suspending his campaign for President). Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Four years after the start of the global pandemic, COVID-19 is no longer a global health emergency, but in the U.S., every week, the virus is still hospitalizing 15,000 people and killing a thousand. Today, we look back – and ahead – with former New York Times global health reporter Donald G. McNeil Jr., author of the new book The Wisdom of Plagues: Lessons from 25 years of Covering Pandemics. He and Kara discuss the conflicting findings surrounding the virus origin, including the lab leak theory currently being investigated by Congress, and grapple with whether we need a Pentagon for Disease in the future (addressing a question posed by former White House Chief of Staff and Obama Ebola Czar Ron Klain). Plus – McNeil speaks out about his own controversy: his 2021 departure from The New York Times. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kara and Nayeema look forward to the characters and moments that may define 2024 by looking back at the coverage of the last year. We unpack the drama at OpenAI, to the contrast between Biden and Trump and Fox News, to Elon Musk and X with the most revealing interview moments from 2023. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On is off for the holidays, so today we have an episode of friend-of-the-pod Preet Bharara's podcast Stay Tuned with Preet. In this episode, Preet is joined by author Mark Chiusano for a deep dive on our favorite (or least favorite) Washington fabulist: George Santos. Mark Chiusano is the author of The Fabulist: The Lying, Hustling, Grifting, Stealing, and Very American Legend of George Santos. He joins Preet to discuss Santos’s lifetime of lies, and what his ascension to power says about our political system. On will be back with a fresh episode on January 4, 2024. Listen to Stay Tuned with Preet every Monday and Thursday: https://link.chtbl.com/staytuned Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Randy Rainbow is a four-time Emmy and Grammy-nominated musical comedy sensation famous for his viral taunts of anti-LGBTQ+ politicians, hateful celebrities and, of course, George Santos. Rainbow (and, yes: that is his real name) talks about his approach to his work, his inspirations, and why he claims his videos aren’t political. Kara also asks Rainbow what “Elon the Musical” would sound like. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are world hunger, pandemics and climate change “fixable” – or is mitigating their impacts the best we can hope for? Is there any point in making them moonshots? In his new book, Big Bets: How Large-Scale Change Really Happens, Rockefeller Foundation President and former Administrator of USAID Rajiv Shah explains how going big impacts motivation – even if the result is a Big Fail. We speak with Shah about the outcome of the recent UN Climate Conference in Dubai (and the overwhelming presence of Big Oil), why he thinks global institutions like the World Bank and the IMF need to be revamped, and whether billionaire philanthropists are the answer to the world’s woes (spoiler: they aren’t). Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tim Alberta is a fantastic reporter whose profiles of 2024 hopeful Nikki Haley and former CNN boss Chris Licht proved illuminating and impactful (Licht lost his job days after). In his latest book, Alberta has profiled not a person but a movement: the evangelical church. It’s a community that rallied around Donald Trump in 2016, 2020 and will likely do so in 2024. And it’s one Alberta knows well: his father was an evangelical pastor. Alberta’s new book, “The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism” takes him back to his hometown church to understand how the evangelical church has reshaped American politics. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper details the threats and dangers we face. On the agenda: hot wars in the Middle East and Ukraine, a cold war with China, the threat posed by Iran, and the dangers that would come from the potential resurgence of Esper’s former boss: Donald Trump. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former Wyoming Congresswoman Liz Cheney is on a mission to defeat Donald Trump - and says she’ll do “whatever it takes” to prevent him and his “enablers” from a second term in the White House, including supporting Democrats or going up against him on a third party ticket. She lays out why she thinks Trump is a danger to the country in her new book, Oath and Honor. A Memoir and a Warning. We speak with Cheney about being ostracized within her beloved Republican party, how she made friends with Democrats during the January 6th hearings, and her fears about Speaker of the House Mike Johnson. Plus, Kara grills her on her conservative policy positions ahead of an (unlikely) potential 2024 run. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rep. Mike Gallagher of Wisconsin is on a mission to raise the alarm bell on the Chinese Communist Party and rethink America’s approach to China. As chair of the Select Committee on the CCP, he’s arguably the leading China hawk in DC and has put the squeeze on everyone from Elon Musk and Bob Iger to the NBA and Wall Street to get tougher on China. The person he wants to push the hardest, though, is President Joe Biden. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tennis legend Martina Navratilova is no stranger to controversy. But the battle she’s picked these days, which has pit her against inclusion of trans women in professional sports – has put her at odds with many in the LGBTQ community that considers her an icon, and made her strange bedfellows with Republicans with whom she’s otherwise on (Twitter) war footing. We explore why she’s chosen to plant this flag, talk about the continued pay inequity in tennis, and brainstorm what she’ll do next (hint: it could involve Elon). Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Who gets to compete as a woman? And who decides whether someone is “woman enough”? When it comes to South African runner Caster Semenya, it could be the European Court of Human Rights. The two-time Olympic gold medalist has been in a legal battle since 2019 with World Athletics, the global governing body for track and field, after it banned her from competing because of her naturally-occurring higher levels of testosterone. She discusses her experience, what labels get wrong and her new book A Race to Be Myself. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the swirl of drama around Sam Altman’s exit from OpenAI, one company seems to be the winner: Microsoft. It has both a significant partnership with, and an ownership stake in, the company, and now it's welcoming Altman and OpenAI researchers with open arms. For this emergency episode, Kara interviews Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why did Fox News knowingly air unhinged conspiracy theories about Dominion Voting Systems and Smartmatic and then fire Tucker Carlson, its most popular host, just days after settling with Dominion for $787.5 million? Brian Stelter, the former host of CNN’s Reliable Sources, explores these questions and more in a new book, Network of Lies: The Epic Saga of Fox News, Donald Trump, and the Battle for American Democracy. The TLDL: Tucker and Rupert deserved each other, until they didn’t. But do listen to get the scoops on Fox … and on CNN from this media insider. This interview was recorded live at 92NY on Tuesday November 14th. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dan Doctoroff had a storied career as Deputy Mayor of New York City during the first two Bloomberg administrations. In six years, Doctoroff helped rebuild the city after 9/11. He later oversaw the terminal and media business at Bloomberg before joining forces with Google on (the now defunct) Sidewalk Labs mission to define the future of cities. These days, he’s taking on a new challenge: ALS, a.k.a Lou Gehrig’s disease. Doctoroff was hit with the neurodegenerative disease in 2021. He speaks candidly about how this challenge has helped him stay present and let go of the future — except, of course, in the search for a cure. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are tech bros successful because of some innate talent, or could any of us be like them? Organizational psychologist and Wharton School professor Adam Grant takes on the myth of innate talent and the reality of growth in his latest book, Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things. We hear why forward-looking advice trumps feedback, how Gen Z can thrive in hybrid work scenarios and why Grant thinks there should be an age limit for politicians. Stay till the end to hear Grant turn the tables on Kara and psychoanalyze her frustration with Elon. If you like this episode, you can find Adam’s podcasts here and here. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices