Mormonism Live! – Radio Free Mormon

Dan Vogel sits down with RFM & Bill not only to talk about his new book “Charisma under Pressure: Joseph Smith, American Prophet, 1831–1839” but to also flesh out some of the incredible ideas in his recent YouTube video “Joseph Smith, the Necromancer”.RESOURCES:Twilit Grotto — Esoteric Archives – esotericarchives.com/Old Bountiful Museum – World of Urban Legends – worldofurbanlegends.com/old-bountiful-museum/Oracles and Talismans, Forgery and Pansophia: Joseph Smith. Jr. as a Renaissance Magus – General Discussions – Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board – mormondialogue.org/topic/69738-oracles-and-talismans-forgery-and-pansophia-joseph-smith-jr-as-a-renaissance-magus/Wilford C. Wood – Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion – MormonWiki – mormonwiki.com/Wilford_C._WoodA-Man-of-Vision-and-Determination-A-Photographic-Essay-and-Tribute-to-Wilford-C.-Wood.pdf (ensignpeakfoundation.org) – ensignpeakfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/A-Man-of-Vision-and-Determination-A-Photographic-Essay-and-Tribute-to-Wilford-C.-Wood.pdfStory behind Joseph and Hyrum Death Masks – Joseph Smith Jr and Emma Hale Smith Historical Society – josephsmithjr.org/joseph-and-hyrum-death-masks/Framing a 17th Century Work on Parchment – Bark Frameworks –

There is a raging debate within Mormon circles where those folks who are determined to maintain belief in the Prophet Joseph Smith but who abhor polygamy and the Church as ran by Brigham Young and after have found ways to dismiss the standard evidence that Mormonism’s founder was a polygamist. They interpret the evidence as made up by Brigham Young and those around him in an effort to draw Joseph Smith into a practice he never participated in. Stories of fabricating history, backdating prophesy, and discrediting witnesses. On this week’s episode Bill & RFM with a few friends take a look at the evidence and to see if one has compelling reasons to believe Joseph Smith was, in fact, a polygamist!MAIN CONCLUSIONS DRAWN FROM REASON1.) Clayton Journal Entries can be shown to be reliable2.) D&C 132 is shown to be reliable as the text of the revelation that Smith received3.) There is substantial Evidence that imposes that Smith originated and perpetuated Polygamy4.) Hyrum Smith read the revelation in a High Council Meeting and Joseph and Hyrum tried to excuse the revelation away in the Nauvoo City Council but not a the way that allows Polygamy deniers to impose a narrative of “Eternity Only Sealings” or “Dynastic Sealings”. Hence they must confront why Hyrum and Joseph don’t respond using the narrative they have created.5.) That any attempt to explain Joseph’s practice as “eternal only” and not time is irrational in light of Hyrum and Joseph’s attempt to walk back the doctrine/revelation of plural marriage by explaining it was in regards to former times and had nothing to do with the present. In other words Dynastic Sealings or relationships in the hereafter that are not binding or sexual in this life is not going to strike fear and anger and rebelliousness in Emma, along with pushback and resentment in Marks, Cowles, and Soby and can be explained without embarrassment. But when Joseph and Hyrum tip their hand by making the excuse that this revelation is about former times and not the present, we can rationally conclude this wasn’t eternal only or dynastic relationships that lacked sex or marriage in this life.(While we didn’t show it, Orange Wight’s autobiography also imposes that Smith had Flora Woodworth as a wife and he was notified that because of such, she was taken. Hence this wasn’t a eternity only relationship.)If you want to see the documents and the notes about what these documents show. Check out the three part Reddit Posts on the topic.. Part 1:https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/144aaam/the_evidence_laid_out_that_joseph_smith_was_the/ Part 2:https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/144ahjo/the_evidence_laid_out_that_joseph_smith_was_the/ Part 3:https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/144aqlr/the_evidence_laid_out_that_joseph_smith_was_the/ RESOURCES:https://www.yearofpolygamy.com/year-of-polygamy/episode-94-polygamy-controversies-joseph-fought-polygamy/ Episode 139: Joseph Didn’t Fight Polygamy, Part One Episode 139: Joseph Didn’t Fight Polygamy, Part Two https://sunstone.org/e41-brigham-young-and-the-chamber-of-secrets/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZQwyhhFczU   https://www.jstor.org/stable/24243807 This link has the url’s for the Land Deeds of Joseph’s plural wives Joseph Smith acted unethically giving away Church property to plural wives in Nauvoo by u/BillReel in exmormon https://archive.org/details/history-of-the-saints-1842-john-c-bennett/page/n9/mode/2up?view=theater  – John C Bennett History of the Saints http://www.latterdaytruth.org/pdf/100526.pdf Nauvoo Expositor Joseph F. Smith Affidavits – http://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/JS0361.dochttps://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/MMD/id/59430/rec/1 – Clayton Diaryhttps://archive.org/details/WilliamClaytonJournal/page/n13/mode/2up – Clayton  page 106 search for plural https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-from-oliver-cowdery-21-january-1838/1 Cowdery to his brother https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/281385.William_Clayton https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/281385.William_Clayton https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/record/915fc5f1-4f65-4131-800a-4eaee3604f3c/37a65922-1a7e-4e6c-9e5b-fa5104b53cbe?view=browse  – affidavits  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJUtmzt3fJc&t=1193s&pp=ygUQaGFwcGluZXNzIGxldHRlcg%3D%3D  – Happiness Letter Examination https://www.jstor.org/stable/43200169   – “Illicit Intercourse,” Plural Marriage, and the Nauvoo Stake High Council, 1840-1844 Gary James Bergera https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/revelation-12-july-1843-dc-132/1#historical-intro – Kingsbury 132 Revelation https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/187/oa_monograph/chapter/201655/pdf&nbsp

A former seminary teacher got the opportunity to present lots of his questions to the Church Historian recently. Wait till you hear what happened! RESOURCES: Transcript – http://radiofreemormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/ELDER-BALLARD-BLOWS-UP-THE-CHURCH-TRANSCRIPT.pdfEpisode – https://radiofreemormon.org/2017/11/radio-free-mormon-021-elder-ballard-blows-church/ https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/prophets-and-fallibility/https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/the-mormon-truth-crisis/https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/the-mormon-paradox/Joe’s Document “In Defense of Doubt” – https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/In-Defense-of-Doubt-Final.pdfElder McKay’s Letter back to him – https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/Elder-McKays-Letter.pdf

In this video we delve into the history behind how the LDS Church came to have its name and how its official name has changed from its inception to today. And along the way we learn about the use and meaning of the word Mormon as well as how the Church went from “Latter Day Saints” to Latter-day Saints” and you won’t believe how much went into a hyphen and a lower case letter d. RESOURCES: https://archive.org/details/EveningAndMorningStar18321834/page/n161/mode/2up – 1834 change to Church of the Latter Day Saints https://byustudies.byu.edu/online-chapters/volume-2-chapter-5/ – History of The Church noting the 1834 Name change https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/115?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1990/04/thus-shall-my-church-be-called?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2018/10/the-correct-name-of-the-church?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1990/10/mormon-should-mean-more-good?lang=eng https://archive.org/details/TimesAndSeasonsVol4/page/n307/mode/2up https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/43668-new-evidence-that-church-was-organized-at-fayette/ https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/sample-of-pure-language-between-circa-4-and-circa-20-march-1832/1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-commandments-1833/14 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/revelation-march-1829-dc-5/1#source-note

This past week 60 Minutes the CBS TV Journalism Show covered the event of the Church having its finances exposed by whistleblower David Nielson. We take a look at what was said…. and what wasn’t in this weeks episode of Mormonism LIVE! “David Nielsen is a former investment manager for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who became a whistleblower regarding the church’s finances and tax-exempt status. Nielsen accused the church of hoarding billions of dollars it has not paid taxes on and asked the IRS to strip the church of its tax-exempt status. Nielsen argued that the church owes billions in taxes, and he wants a cut of that as part of a reward offered by the IRS for reporting tax-related offenses.” RESOURCES:(2038) Mormon whistleblower: Church’s investment firm masquerades as charity | 60 Minutes – YouTube60 Minutes – Bishop defends the Church’s investment fund | Facebook (60 Minutes Overtime)The Perpetual Education Fund (churchofjesuschrist.org)The Perpetual Education Fund (churchofjesuschrist.org) (Gordon Hinckley’s talk)Structure of the Corporation of The President / Bishopric (Actual LDS “Church”) | Exploring Mormonism (LDS HOLDINGS)A look at the LDS Church’s legal legacy as a corporation  (The Merging of the two corporations)https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/60minutes/ 

The story of Joseph Smith and Henry Caswall (Caswell) and the Greek Psalter incident is a historical event that took place in 1842 in Nauvoo Ill.. During his visit to Nauvoo, Illinois, where the Mormon Church was headquartered at the time, Caswall met with Joseph Smith. Caswall showed The Prophet a ancient document which Caswall knew to be a “Greek Psalter” or book of Psalms in the Greek language. Caswall claimed that Smith insisted the Psalter was actually a Dictionary for Egyptian Hieroglyphics book was a translation of an ancient record that he had received through divine revelation. Caswall declared that it was nothing more than an ancient Greek Psalter.  As RFM and Bill dig into this story they discover that that Mormonism fares worse than we first thought and the problems reach as high as Jacob’s Ladder. Don’t forget to like and subscribeEXMOSHIRTS – https://www.exmoshirts.com/collections/mormondiscussionsMAILING LIST SIGNUP FORM – http://eepurl.com/hrnr4P RESOURCES:http://www.olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1840s/1842Cas1.htmhttp://www.mormonthink.com/greekweb.htmhttp://www.centerplace.org/history/ts/v4n23.htmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greek_Psalter_Incidenthttps://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/BOMP/id/3750https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/byusq/vol35/iss4/8/https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3085&context=byusq https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_misidentify_a_Greek_%22psalter%22_as_a_containing_%22reformed_Egyptian%22_hieroglyphics%3Fhttps://lifeafterministry.com/2014/03/the-greek-psalter-incident/https://lifeafter.org/greek-psalter-incident/https://rsc.byu.edu/approaching-antiquity-joseph-smith-ancient-world/joseph-smiths-awareness-greek-latin https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Criticism_of_Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The_Greek_Psalter_Incidenthttp://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/il/sign1843.htm#1118https://web.archive.org/web/20130701182744/http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/display/pdf.php?table=review&id=513http://www.truthandgrace.com/The_city_of_the_Mormons.pdfhttps://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/fragment-of-book-of-breathing-for-horos-a-between-238-and-circa-153-bc/1https://archive.org/details/cityofmormonsort01casw/page/20/mode/2uphttps://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/fragment-of-book-of-the-dead-for-nefer-ir-nebu-circa-300-100-bc/1https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/fragment-of-book-of-breathing-for-horos-a-between-238-and-circa-153-bc/1https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/details-photo/the-weighing-of-souls-chapter-125-of-the-book-of-the-dead-detail-of-the-papyrus-of-tasnakht-egyptian-civilisation-late-period/DAE-11127820

RFM and Bill sit down with Jim Bennett to discuss his recent appearances on “Midnight Mormons” and take a look at all the rhetoric around violence in Mormonism including the musket talk by Elder Holland but with an updated and focused discussion around whether such a talk is fueling the very violent threats and rhetoric that critics of Holland’s talk have suggested could be the outgrowth of the “Musket” talk and the lack of the LDS Church in official channels condemning such rhetoric. RESOURCES: 207: Nephi’s Faith Transition – Mormon Discussions Podcasts – Full Lineup (mormondiscussionpodcast.org)Radio Free Mormon: 18: Make Way For Dodos – Radio Free MormonThe Trial of Jim Bennett! – YouTubeThe Trial of Jim Bennett! – YouTubeThe Trial of Jim Bennett! – YouTubeThe Trial of Jim Bennett! – YouTubeThe Trial of Guatemax! – YouTubeRadio Free Mormon VS Midnight Mormons – The Debate – YouTubeThe Trial of Guatemax! – YouTubeThe Trial of Guatemax! – YouTubeThe Trial of Guatemax! – YouTube

When the Phrase “Ongoing Restoration” showed up around 2020 Critics paused as this seemed to be the Church saying something different as if the Church now wanted the restoration to be much earlier in its stage of development than had been intimated in the past. So Bill & RFM take long look over Mormonism’s history to see what has been said and what it might mean.RESOURCES:https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/01/26/mormon-land-how-lds/https://youtu.be/v43WkDalVAs?t=114https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/latter-day-saint-prophet-wife-apostle-share-insights-global-ministry?lang=eng#churchofjesuschristhttps://youtu.be/n49OhL-NbVY?t=15https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/04/the-ongoing-restoration?lang=enghttps://youtu.be/MvVtCKHarI0?t=62https://youtu.be/AN6e4IQBLWs?t=798https://youtu.be/AN6e4IQBLWs?t=896https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7NHQ8v-bmY&t=429shttps://youtu.be/I7NHQ8v-bmY?t=537https://youtu.be/jdUeOY-hA1c?t=388https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2006/10/the-gathering-of-scattered-israel?lang=enghttps://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2005/11/truth-restored?lang=enghttps://www.sfgate.com/news/article/SUNDAY-INTERVIEW-Musings-of-the-Main-Mormon-2846138.phphttps://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-ldzfaB33n8oXeI00ttom_i6WUTGeFPD?usp=share_linkhttps://speeches.byu.edu/talks/gary-e-stevenson/the-ongoing-restoration/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKH4vU1EiB4

In this week’s edition, RFM and Bill sit down with Dan McClellan, former scripture translation supervisor for the LDS Church. Dan received his bachelor’s degree from Brigham Young University in ancient Near Eastern studies, where he focused on Biblical Hebrew and minored in Classical Greek. He completed a master of studies in Jewish studies at the University of Oxford in July of 2010 and a master of arts in biblical studies at Trinity Western University just outside of Vancouver, BC. His areas of specialization are Second Temple Judaism, early Israelite religion, and textual criticism of the Hebrew Bible. RESOURCES: https://rsc.byu.edu/author/mcclellan-daniel-o https://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan?lang=endanielomcclellan.com/ https://hcommons.org/members/maklelan/ https://rsc.byu.edu/vol-20-no-2-2019/far-it-translated-correctly-bible-translation-church

Years ago Jonathan Streeter wrote a blog post titled “Fix your faith crisis with this one weird trick!” that was deeply influential on Bill. So tonight we bring Streeter into the studio to discuss Wood Tools vs Steel Tools and tom recognize when wood tools are being used. RESOURCES: Fix your faith crisis with this one weird trick! 276: Fix your faith crisis with this one weird trick! – WOOD vs STEEL Tools https://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/

This General Conference had lots of interesting twists and turns that have now had time to ruminate in the minds of RFM and Bill Reel. And this weeks episode involves a dive into the Mormon phenomena known as the April 2023 General Conference of the LDS Church. RESOURCES OF TALKS DISCUSSED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYdM8WyYM – Elder Ahmad S. Corbitthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWYXk_7uLbU – Elder Vern R. Stanfillhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0jTa8FG7A8 – Elder Allen D. Hayniehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9freQw16qY – Elder Carl B. Cookhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLplozLahP4 – Elder Gerrit W. Gonghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQwObipvTJc – Elder D. Todd Christoffersonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSmP5tnSevI – Elder Neil L. Andersenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQghSMOOYz4 – President Russell M. Nelson

Joseph Smith’s First Vision ushered in the restoration of the Gospel. It had Heavenly Father and His Son coming through the Heavens to visit the young boy in the spring of 1820. This vision leads to the founding of Mormonism. But what is not as well known is that in the late 1700’s and early 1800’s, everyone and their brother was having visions and many of them appear to be very similar to Joseph Smith’s. So in this week’s episode Bill and RFM do a comparative analysis on those other Visions to see what can be gleaned and its no small thing what they find. RESOURCES:https://web.archive.org/web/20180710083455/https://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/theophany-mine/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burned-over_districthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening https://archive.org/details/lifecon00smit/page/n13/mode/2uphttp://www.mormonstudiespodcast.org/joseph-smith-elias-smith-and-wilford-poulson/https://archive.org/details/TheReligiousExperienceOfNorrisStearnshttp://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech6.htmhttps://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/elders-journal-july-1838/16https://www.watchman.org/articles/mormonism/piecing-together-the-first-vision/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Visionhttps://rsc.byu.edu/exploring-first-vision/significance-joseph-smiths-first-vision-mormon-thoughthttps://www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/accounts-of-the-first-visionhttps://mit.irr.org/joseph-smiths-changing-first-vision-accountshttps://www.mormonstories.org/truth-claims/joseph-smith/first-vision/https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/the-prognostication-of-asa-wild/http://boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/SChamberlain.htmlhttps://byustudies.byu.edu/article/the-visionary-world-of-joseph-smith/http://www.mormonhandbook.com/home/first-vision-plagiarized.htmlhttps://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn83032054/1831-02-01/ed-1/seq-5/ https://archive.org/details/SketchOfExperiencesOfSolomonChamberlin/mode/2up?view=theater&q=apo http://boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/SChamberlain.html https://hdl.huntington.org/digital/collection/p16003coll15/id/40132https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/first-vision/ https://youtu.be/WB3iwEX8WhY?t=1306https://rsc.byu.edu/exploring-first-vision/earliest-documented-accounts-joseph-smiths-first-visionhttps://collections.library.yale.edu/catalog/2041501

Tonight RFM and Bill take a look at how both Top Church Leadership and local leaders extend pressure for dissenting voices to be silent. The episode will include individual stories along with the general instruction by top leaders to diminish dissenting voices and at times to altogether silence them. RESOURCES: Oaks “Its Wrong to Criticize Leaders” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyiHLg59ks Oaks “Questions Are Honored, Opposition is Not” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPeIgjZ0EQg&t=746s Ballard – “Women don’t talk too much” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlQ4h6tGbnE Bruce R McConkie – Echo what I Say or be Silent – https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/mcconkie-to-eugene-england/

RFM has received the the video and audio from his second information request and report back regarding what was turned over by law enforcement. Once again we learn new details that both add clarity and complexity to this case.BONUS AUDIO: We inserted the cut up audio clips of all three witnesses that we had audio interviews of focusing only on the moment in the hotel room where the traumatic event likely occurred. Notice Bonnie’s admitting she heard the youngest kid but then struggles to answer finally stating she did not hear Derek or the parents in spite of all the yelling and screaming that both parents acknowledge along the way. After her clip are multiple clips of Hana and Nolan where Nolan stammers about what he awoke to finally imposing over multiple points in the interview that Hana was already awake and out of bed dealing with Derek when he awoke out of his sleep but juxtaposed against Hana who intimates at two different points in the interview that her and Nolan seem to have awoke together to the crying of the child and both in an escalated voice tell him to be quiet. Nolan also at one point claims he yelled at Derek to be quiet but how can such be when Hana in both her interview and her re-enactment indicates she screams at Derek in Bed that “he is not breathing”

Many are going through great lengths to justify the massive hoards of wealth the Church has accumulated on the backs of its believers, even going as far as to use scripture. But do these scriptures REALLY justify the accumulation of wealth as the Church and its members would have you believe?

In this week’s episode we discuss the recent news of the Temple Changes and just how far the original Endowment has been altered. And the Second half of the show will involve the recent legal settlement with the LDS Church and it’s Ensign Peak Advisors and culminating with RFM’s lightbulb moment sensing that the Landscape of Mormonism has changed and his novel idea around such. Temple Changes Resources: https://religionnews.com/2023/02/10/more-jesus-less-touching-14-changes-to-the-mormon-temple-endowment-ceremony/ https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/02/09/lds-temple-ceremonies-change/ https://www.mrm.org/revised-lds-temple-endowment-ceremony-now-includes-more-pictures-of-jesus SEC Alleged Fraud RESOURCES: SEC Report – https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2023/34-96951.pdf SEC Press statement – https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-35 Church Response – https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-issues-statement-on-sec-settlement https://bycommonconsent.com/2023/02/21/the-church-the-investment-advisor-and-the-sec/ https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/09/27/heres-deeper-look-how-lds/ https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/09/27/heres-deeper-look-how-lds/ RFM’s Lawsuit Idea  https://youtu.be/hgUwpXSNlXM

On June 27th 1844, Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet, was martyred at Carthage Jail by a mob. Or at least that is how the generally accepted story goes. In the last 8 months, Justin Griffin (Director & Producer) and Steve Sorensen (Film Maker), have shared their research that maybe things are not what we have been told. They present their experts, their research, and their conclusions that it was in fact John Taylor and Willard Richards that in fact murdered their own prophet in cold blood. RFM and Bill take a look at their research and the testimony of their experts to see what can be seen with a critical eye. Is this research true? Was Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith killed by their friends? RESOURCES: RESOURCES: RESOURCES:whokilledjosephsmith.com https://www.youtube.com/@jgriffWKJS https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3961&context=byusq https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/john-tayl

On this week’s episode we sit down with Brent Bokovoy, Writer and Director of the upcoming film “Ronald’s Little Factory”, and we discuss all the twists and turns in Mormon Cinema including your favorites, along with movies you have likely forgotten, as well as one’s you never heard of. We finish out the episode discussing the upcoming film “Ronald’s Little Factory”. Boyd K Packer would have been proud! RESOURCES:Ronald’s Little Factory Trailer 1 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcsMBJ6kk6wRonald’s Little Factory – The Why behind the Film – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhFnlp9qjc4 EARLY MORMON CINEMA* A Mormon Maid* A Victim Of The Mormons* Brigham YoungLDS PRODUCED CINEMA* Johny Lingo* The Pump*  Legacy* The TestamentsMODERN MORMON CINEMA* Virginia* God’s Army*  Brigham City* States of Grace* The Singles Ward* The RM* Baptists At The Barbecue* Sons Of Provo* The Home Teachers* Mobsters And Mormons* The Book of Mormon Movie* The Other Side of Heaven* The Best Two Years* Saints And Soldiers* Once I Was A BeehivePOST MORMON CINEMA* Plan 10 From Outer Space* Orgazmo* South Park Episode* The Book Of Mormon Musical* Latter Days* Trapped By The Mormons* Big Love* Angels In America* September Dawn* The Book Of Zombie* Electrick Children* The Falls* Missionary* Room 104SHORT FILMS* Bad Mormons* Killer Missionaries* The Touch Of The Master’s HandDOCUMENTARIES* 8 The Mormon Proposition* Believer* TabloidRECENT* Murder Among The Mormons* Keep Sweet And Obey* Under The Banner Of Heaven* Sins of Our Mother*  Mormon No More* Abducted In Plain Sight* A Friend of the Family

RFM and Bill review the recent set of Documents and other items sent by Florida Law Enforcement in RFM as part of a Freedom of Information Request.  It is best to watch this on YouTube where the documents can be observed. ***TRIGGER WARNING***This episode will contain details of an alleged Homicide of a child. Please skip this episode if needed and please keep kids away from this episode.

The Salt Lake Tribune recently published a book review on the book “Ancient Christians: An Introduction for Latter-day Saints” published by the Maxwell Institute. Both the book and the Tribune article make note that what Latter-day Saints believed about early Christianity and the Great Apostasy may not only “overly simplistic, if not (a) completely false narrative”. But where did Latter-day Saints get these beliefs? How did Mormonism define the Great Apostasy? And more importantly if we redefine the very reasons for what a Restoration is and why it was needed, might we be undercutting the restoration itself? Maxwell Institute Book available –Ancient Christians Available Now – Neal A. Maxwell Institute (byu.edu) 1832 First Vision Account contradicting SLTRIB Claim that B. H. Roberts was the first promoted the apostasy narrative – History, circa Summer 1832, Page 1 (josephsmithpapers.org) 1838 First Vision account also contains significant apostasy narrative piecesHistory, circa June 1839–circa 1841 [Draft 2], Page 3 (josephsmithpapers.org)  The Great Apostasy by: James Talmage published 1909 by the Deseret News – Which lays out in significant ways “The Great Apostasy” – The great apostasy : considered in the light of scriptural and secular history : Talmage, James Edward, 1862-1933 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive The Church url for their pamphlet on the Great Apostasy – The Great Apostasy (churchofjesuschrist.org) While The Church is reducing the Great Apostasy to only Priesthood and Keys – They clearly have attached Doctrine, Church organization and Offices, consistency of Saving Rituals as well as imposing that Christ set up an actual Church as key components of  “The Great Apostasy” – Talks where some of those concepts are spoken Example 1Example 2Example 3 The Church teaches that part of the Great Apostasy is that rather than leading via revelation that the early Christian Church instead traqnsitioned over to “Long Conferences” and “Erudite Councils” “depending upon their own brilliant minds” (See Manual Image Below) –  and yet Elder Eyring admits that such is the very way this Church is led – Henry B. Eyring: “Forget Harvard and Stanford. We’re in another kind of thing here.” – YouTube LDS Church Shifting to More Pageantry and Colorful Presentation to satisfy everyone (which in their manual they claim is a sign of the Great Apostasy)   Example 1Example 2Example 3 The Modern Church creating a narrative of an ongoing restoration and that such has only begun to obfuscate that they are moving and shifting in every way they had previously labeled in the early Church as signs of Apostasy  (Please note how is one to discern that all shifts and changes ithin the modern Church are “Auhtorized” and all shifts and changes in the Ancient Church are “Unauthorized” 1.) Distorting the and changing the Church organization and offices (Modern Church has changed the calling of Seventies, disbanded the General Patriarch, and created and then laterdisbanded the High Priests Group 2.) Silence between the Heavens and the Earth 3.) Vast numbers who had professed membership and many who had been officers in the ministry deserted the church; while a few were stimulated to greater zeal under the scourge of persecution. 4.) Internal dissension, schism and disruption, whereby an absolute apostasy of the Church from the way and word of God was brought about” 5.) The corrupting (Changing) of the simple doctrines of the gospel of Christ by admixture with so-called philosophic systems. (Corrupting is subjective) 6.) Unauthorized (Subjective) additions to the prescribed rites and rituals of the church and the introduction of vital alterations in essential ordinances.  7.) Unauthorized (Subjective) changes in church organization and government 8.) “If the savior had come back to earth at the beginning of the fifth century A.D., i doubt whether he would have recognized the Christian church as the one that claimed descent from that which he had established, so far had it gone astray.”  VERSUS ” If Joseph Smith came back to earth  today, i doubt whether he would have recognized the LDS Church as the one that claimed descent from that which he had established, so far had it gone astray.” 9.) The power of godliness was no longer present in the Christian church.   (Is that power recognizable within the LDS Church ?) 10.) The laws were changed (Notice all the laws that have changed in the LDS Church EXAMPLES: The doing away of “Free Agency” and D&C say a Disciplinary Court requires 12 high priests but the Modern Church says not necessary) 11.) The ordinances were changed (Notice the changes to the Endowment) 12.) The everlasting co

Recently Bill did a solo episode away from Mormonism LIVE walking members into the historical analysis of the initial Doctrine of tithing as 10% of one’s Surplus or Interest to help believers sense they had an option backed by historical documentation that allowed them to save themselves Thousands of Dollars a year while remaining faithful. After that episode a listener sent Bill and RFM an image of a vintage Church Handbook of Instruction that got their wheels turning and this week’s episode seeks to to delve into a historical analysis of how Surplus or Interest became Gross. And YES, You will be disgusted. Here is the pdf presentation of the outline – https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Tithing-Whats-In-A-Word.pdf The Introduction of Tithing to the Saints and “What is in a word” D&C 119 VS 1-4 (Given in 1838) – This law was imposed by God as a “Standing Law Forever” and came after the Law of Consecration had failed. Strange that Heavenly Father seems unable to see that this “Standing Law Forever” was about to be anything but consistent and eternal. Tithing has always meant a tenth. History of tithing in the world generally But a tenth of what? is the crux Verse 1 – Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands It seems the original commandment required ALL Surplus property be given to the Church upon entry into the faith. Verse 4 – Intimates that once one has entered the faith giving all their surplus property, they there after “shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually” INTEREST = #3 “Regard to private profit” #4 “Any surplus advantage” What does Surplus mean = “What is above and beyond after the necessities are taken care of” “that which remains when use is satisfied” What does all this mean The law of tithing when taken on face value without any manipulation of the words seems to mean “When one enters the Church they are to hand over all Surplus property (any property above and beyond what is a necessity of life), and to then pay 1/10th of their “interest” or “surplus advantage” annually It also says that this shall be a standing law forever hence meaning it is DOCTRINE and can’t be changed (Without additional revelation). “Settled; established, either by law or by custom, etc.; continually existing; permanent; not temporary” Since it is the Church who is about to muddy the waters the question is being begged if “Interest” means something other than how the word is literally why wasn’t God more clear? Examples of how it was interpreted in early Church history JST Genesis 14:39 vs the original verse Genesis 14:20 that Joseph seems to be modifying (between June 1830 and July 1833) Original – “And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.” Joseph Smith’s Adaptation – “Wherefore, Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him more than that which he had need.” Joseph seems to be modifying this narrative about Melchizedek so as to have it conform with D&C 119’s reasonable interpretation of tithing as 1/10 of surplus. What he adds should be assumed to be altering the meaning otherwise why adapt it at all. Bishop Partridge “If a man is worth a $1000, the interest on that would be $60, and 1/10 of the interest will of course be $6.— thus you see the plan.” Bishop Edward Partridge letter to Newel K. Whitney, July 24, 1838 Bishop Partridge, the first Bishop in the Church is instructing Newel K Whitney (I believe the second bishop in the Church) on the definition of tithing and his responsibility to collect it Bishop Partridge seems to be interpreting tithing literally based on the verse “shall pay one-tenth of all their interest (increase) annually” and is suggesting that one pay 10% of the interest earned on one’s net worth invested at 6% Lastly Steven Harper seems to agree when he says “Bishop Partridge understood “one tenth of all their interest” annually to mean 10 percent of what Saints would earn in interest if they invested their net worth for a year” Millennial Star 1847 (Orson Hyde Editor) – “The celestial law requires one-tenth part of all a man’s substance which he possesses at the time he comes into the church (See D&C 119:1), and one-tenth part of his annual increase ever after(See D&C 119:4). IF IT REQUIRES ALL MAN CAN EARN TO SUPPORT HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY, HE IS NOT TITHED AT ALL. The celestial law does not take the mother’s and children’s bread, neither ought else which they really need for their comfort. The poor that have not of this world’s good to spare, but serve and honor God according to the best of their abilities in every other way, shall have a celestial crown in the Eternal Kingdom of our Father.” – quotes comes post end of consec

Bill & RFM take a look at the Life of Francis Gladden Bishop, another Latter-day Saint who claimed to be the rightful heir to Joseph Smith after the martyrdom as part of the Mormon Succession Crisis.RESOURCES:https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/license-for-gladden-bishop-14-april-1840-extract/1https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/145852385/francis-gladden-bishop https://atom3.lib.byu.edu/mormonbib/11107/.https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/chd/individual/francis-gladden-bishop-1809https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladden_Bishop, https://wilfordwoodruffpapers.org/subjects/francis-gladden-bishop https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/bc-jsp/content/jsp/images/1168/1168_ms155_3_05_001_med.jpghttps://archive.org/details/addresstosonsdau01bish https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-c-1-2-november-1838-31-july-1842/215, https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/bc-jsp/content/jsp/images/1168/1168_ms155_3_05_001_med.jpghttps://smile.amazon.com/Ensign-Shepherd-Remembrance-Classic-Reprint/dp/1333273819/ref=sr_1_1?crid=VOHXKME6OJK6&keywords=%22francis+gladden+bishop%22&qid=1672953250&sprefix=francis+gladden+bishop+%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-1https://smile.amazon.com/s?i=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3AFrancis+Gladden+Bishop&s=relevancerank&text=Francis+Gladden+Bishop&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-from-francis-gladden-bishop-26-september-1843/1https://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/JS0428.pdf

Bill and RFM take a deep look at how sex and sexuality were presented within the LDS Church over the last 200 years. What was taboo and sin and to what degree did Leaders impose what could and could not go on the Bedroom. RAPE & VIRTUE A.) BOM teaching – Moroni 9:9 implemented into Gospel Principles (David O McKay, Heber J Grant, Spencer W Kimball) Restated by Marion G Romney Then by Mark E Petersen ( soundbite) And then the Church seems to distance itself from the teaching …. Sort of Still in scriptures No documented way for believers to grasp they are distancing themselves from it. Elizabeth Smart – led to the distancing Neil Anderson ( video is here ) Doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Q of the 12. I would challenge believers to show me where I can find any teaching that has been held up and taught by all 15 of the top leadership.  That list would be so small that there should be no barrier to listing them because if 14 men taught it and one didn’t by this standard it is not Doctrine (Remember God is not a God of Confusion) So I am left to assume Neil meant that so long as it is taught generally among the Leaders? Was this teaching in its day taught generally among the leaders?  YES It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk. Was this hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk?  NO It (That Virtue and chastity can be taken from you by an abusive act committed against you and that one is better off dead than having lost their virtue) was taught By President, Prophet, seer and Revelator David O McKay By President, Prophet, seer and Revelator Heber J Grant Marion G Romney Counselor in the First Presidency  (Prophet Seer and Revelator) By President, Prophet, seer, and Revelator Spencer W Kimball By Apostle Mark E Petersen (Prophet Seer and Revelator) In the past correlated curriculum in Gospel Principles In the Book of Mormon one of the standard works This is the very reason for which old white men claiming to be moral authorities simply aren’t.  Because not only do they collectively struggle to grasp what healthy morality is and seem to collectively follow each other down the path of perpetuating abusive and unhealthy ideas, but because they also can’t define doctrine in any way that is actually useful to the Church. ORAL SEX AS AN UNHOLY AND UNNATURAL ACT A.) Unholy & Unnatural Act THE OLD DEFINITION OF CHASTITY (Old Handbook 21.4.5 Chastity and Fidelity)  “The Lord’s law of chastity is abstinence from sexual relations outside of lawful marriage and fidelity within marriage. Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Adultery, fornication, homosexual or lesbian relations, and every other unholy, unnatural, or impure practice are sinful. Members who violate the Lord’s law of chastity or who influence others to do so are subject to Church discipline.” THE NEW DEFINITION OF CHASTITY  – The Lord’s law of chastity is: Abstinence from sexual relations outside of a legal marriage between a man and a woman. Fidelity within marriage. Not in Gospel Principles either But Still on the Church’s site in other forms Teachings of President Kimball Guide to the Scriptures Intimacy in Marriage President Kimball seemingly contradicting himself as he is the one who took up this cause B.) Oral Sexcapades Spencer W. Kimball and the First Presidency naming it in official letter Retracting it in a second letter BIRTH CONTROL  (I want to be extremely brief here.  I am going to present these quotes in passing) A.) PAST TEACHINGS . . . there is a certain class of Latter-day Saints that have come to think as the gentile world does—that it is not stylish, not nice to have large families; and therefore we find, much to our sorrow, that in some instances steps are being taken “to prevent these spirits being tabernacled by them. .. . Apostle Abraham O. Woodruff, 1900 Speaking about Birth Control and Abortion Joseph F Smith said “Possibly no greater sin could be committed by the people who have embraced this Gospel than to prevent or to destroy life in the manner indicated.” The Church statistical report for 1901 (possibly the earliest reporting a Church birth rate). “There is something wrong,” reported the Juvenile Instructor, “either with ourselves or with our statistics—possibly with both; but we trust it is with the statistics, as that is the lesser evil.” Not only had the marriage rate declined, but “our average birth rate, if we can believe our statistical reports, is far too low. It is below that of the nations of modern Christendom to whose birth rate we have been able to obtain access. Ours, as reported, is a little over thirty-five per annum in each thousand souls.”54 The reaction to this discovery was predictable. A charge was given to review the statistics and to keep more accurate record

RFM and Bill take a deeper look at the “Book of Mormon” and compare what we know about it with what we know about other books to see if it is as un unique as believers claim it to be and we even get Mormon Scholar, Brian Hales opinion on the matter. This past week on Mormonism LIVE we covered “Automatic Writing” in the episode, Mormonism LIVE: 108: Is The Book of Mormon Unique? A Great Article to read that delves into this in regards to its connection to Mormonism is here – https://sunstone.org/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/050-16-26.pdf Here are the connections between Smith’s “Translation” of the Book of Mormon and the data behind automatic writing. 1.) Some of the Authors within “Automatic Writing” seemed to have a serious lack of education 2.) Their writings contained details that indicated antiquity that the author couldn’t of known ( [O]ne time while he [Joseph] was translating he stopped suddenly, pale as a sheet, and said, ‘Emma, did Jerusalem have walls around it?’ When I answered ‘Yes,’ he replied ‘Oh! I was afraid I had been deceived.’ He had such limited knowledge of history at that time that he did not even know that Jerusalem was surrounded by walls.”) 3.) Able to discern things about the foreign lands and times that had a degree of accuracy to them. 4.) many “Automatic Writing” examples contained significantly less anachronisms than the book of Mormon 5.) “Automatic Writing” authors used a peep stone or crystal 6.) “Automatic Writing” authors moved away from a peep stone which they needed at first to being able to translate without one. 7.) Many of the significant “Automatic Writing” productions were Christian themed 8.) Some contained the voice of Christ 9.) Many were done by dictation 10.) At Least one stated its purpose was to answer three big questions “Where did we come from”, “Why are we here”, and “Where are we going”? 11.) Many of these productions were significantly longer than the “Book of Mormon”. 12.) many proposed to claim they were being given by voices of ancient people from antiquity 13.) several “Automatic Writing” authors were able to stop and take breaks and pick up exactly where they left off without being reminded where they were. ( According to Emma, when she and Joseph were interrupted during his translating, Joseph would later resume on the very sentence from which he had left off ) 14.) numerous others found the “”Automatic Writing” to be believable 15.) numerous people found the “automatic writing” productions to be of a high quality of writing. For example Jane Eyre is believed to have been written this way. 16.) numerous others found some of the “”Automatic Writing” productions to be inspiring and worth basing one’s lived spirituality on. 17.) some of the “”Automatic Writing” productions were written to a world audience with revealed knowledge important to Salvation 18.) some of the “”Automatic Writing” productions seemed to pass the tests of appearing to be from antiquity and contained little to no contemporary material. (compare to the amount of 19th Century material in the Book of Mormon). 19.) much of the “Automatic Writing” productions claim to be channeling a divine source. (Gift and Power of God) 20.) Many “Automatic Writing” productions seemed to be beyond the competency of the person performing the “Automatic Writing”. 21.) some “Automatic Writing” productions were not only done by dictation but also had many words spelled out specifically 22.) many “Automatic Writing” productions contained really deep gems that were thought provoking. Poems, and passages that seem inspiring generally. 23.) reading “Automatic Writing” productions caused awe and wonder in their readers. (they essentially felt the spirit reading them) 24.) many “Automatic Writing” productions get a ton of things onto paper quickly such as 5000 words in a single evening ( Starting on April 7th, 1829, Joseph Smith began translating the Book of Mormon. He completed his translation on July 1st of that year—just 90 days! That makes for an average of about 8 pages per day. ) Hence Joseph Smith as an “Automatic Writer” makes incredible sense and has significant overlap and suggests that the Translation of the Book of Mormon is both NOT Unique, and NOT even that good compared to other examples of “Automatic Writing” such as these * The Sorry Tale – https://archive.org/details/sorrytaleastory01currgoog/page/n6/mode/2up * The Urantia Text – https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/read-urantia-book-online * The Course in Miracles – https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4

Sheri Dew recently gave a Devotional Talk titled “Prophets Can See Around Corners” at BYU Hawaii on Nov 1st 2022. Bill and RFM take a deep look into this talk to see if what sort of apologetic tricks and absurd claims Sheri Dew makes this time around. Make some hot chocolate, grab a slice of fruitcake, and sit down by the fire, because Reel and RFM are going to fill your stockings with some Christmas Tidings and Apologetic Fallacies and Yuletide Cheer. RESOURCES: Sheri Dew’s Talk – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqFKbnzuF-M Gordon B Hinkley’s 1998 Priesthood Talk – https://youtu.be/J2mcY_SkZSI President Nelson Not Knowing about Covid Coming – https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/04/11nelson?lang=eng President Nelson’s Stated Impetus vbehind the #HearHim – https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/the-story-behind-my-global-prayer-of-gratitude?lang=eng

This week we explore DezNat or a loosely connected group of folks who claim to be Deseret Nationals. We explore their violent rhetoric and their problematic ideology and we even have a former DezNat follower to help us add context to this story. #DezNat  RESOURCES:Wiki DezNat – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DezNatDezNat Twitter – https://twitter.com/DeseretNation DezNat Exposed – https://exposedeznat.noblogs.org/ DezNat Exposed Twitter – https://twitter.com/exposedeznat REFERENCES IN THE SHOW:The Corbridge Manuever Part 1 – https://radiofreemormon.org/2019/03/radio-free-mormon-057-the-corbridge-manuever-part-1/ The Corbridge Manuever Part 2 – https://radiofreemormon.org/2019/03/radio-free-mormon-058-the-corbridge-manuever-part-2/ Wrong Roads – https://radiofreemormon.org/2017/05/extra-radio-free-mormon-wrong-roads/Nancy Rigdon & The Happiness Letter – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJUtmzt3fJc

Since 1830 Mormonism has, as likely a part of it’s persecution complex, used violent rhetoric and has taught its members to use violent means. That rhetoric either leads to further violence or at least creates safer spaces for violence to occur. Today we look into Mormonism Past and Present to expose a history wide pattern of Mormon Leaders Encouraging Violence.RESOURCES: Boyd K Packer “To Young Men Only” – https://archive.org/details/ToYoungMenOnly/page/n15/mode/2up?view=theaterWiki Temple Penalties – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_(Mormonism)#The_Nauvoo_endowment_and_FreemasonryChurch acknowledge Joseph Smith Approved the Danites – https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/peace-and-violence-among-19th-century-latter-day-saints?lang=engOath of Vengence – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_vengeanceJournal of Discourses Brigham Young encouraging Murdering adulterers & “Blood Atonement” – https://www.josephsmithfoundation.org/journalofdiscourses/speakers/brigham-young/instructions-to-the-bishops-men-judged-according-to-their-knowledge-organization-of-the-spirit-and-body-thought-and-labor-to-be/Wilford Woodruff Journal Where Brigham Approves of the “Mountain Meadows Massacre” – https://wilfordwoodruffpapers.org/documents/d3d712e1-2719-4efa-8d2d-b2dfda74f9fb/page/7f604d11-2494-4a3b-9497-35b60e0149b0The Bishop Warren Snow castration story – https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Castration-2.pngMarion G Romney suggesting it better for one to come home in a casket rather than lose one’s virtue – https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1981/09/we-believe-in-being-chaste?lang=engMark E Peterson repeating Romney’s sentiments – https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/12/SacrificeYourLife.mp3Elder Holland suggesting defenders of the faith pick up muskets and aim them at those who oppose the Church – https://youtu.be/tg36L1989Ss?t=1223Year of Polygamy Podcast “Culture of Violence” – https://www.yearofpolygamy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Quinn-The-Culture-of-Violence-In-Joseph-Smiths-Mormonism-w-notes.pdf

What happens when a Member of the LDS Church stands opposed in a sustaining vote of Church leaders, follows the process the Church has laid out around “common consent”, and shows conclusively that current LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators have lied to the members. Well, you are about to find out, because Nemo does just that. RESOURCES: President Nelson lying about his flight – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz4iQk1M9l4 Elder Ballard’s being dishonest about hiding things – https://radiofreemormon.org/2017/11/radio-free-mormon-021-elder-ballard-blows-church/ 1832 First Vision Account – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGSKhHQttrs Elder Oaks Electroshock Hoax – https://youtu.be/0m5qRse2K5M Elder Holland lying on repeated occasions including prop 8 – https://youtu.be/QyFsy2zQf04 Adam God – https://youtu.be/neaa9rw9ySs Gaslighting from LDS Leadership including Ballard on not knowing where inviting to be baptized at the 1st discussion came from – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TVGzjEd5GE Additional Lies How Leaders repeatedly compromise themselves – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxidgOPpAxM Past Leaders lying repeatedly over polygamy – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VZFzK4jBZE OTHER RESOURCES Common Council – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Council_of_the_Church

As a follow-up to episode 101 on the Third Convention, Thomas Murphy joins us to add clarity and context to all the ground we covered and to add details that make this story even more interesting.   RESOURCES: The First Part – Video Version – https://youtu.be/Gmjk3Kht0S8 Slide Show used by Prof Murphy in this episode – https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/11/Third-Convention_-Other-Stories.pdf Thomas W Murphy | Edmonds Community College – Academia.edu Reinventing Mormonism: Guatemala as Harbinger of the Future? – Dialogue Journal Zapotec Natural History | UAPress (arizona.edu) (PDF) ‘Stronger than Ever’: Remnants of the Third Convention. | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu (PDF) Fifty Years of United Order in Mexico | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu (PDF) From Racist Stereotype to Ethnic Identity: Instrumental Uses of Mormon Racial Doctrine | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu (PDF) Other Mormon Histories: Lamanite Subjectivity in Mexico. | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu (PDF) Lamanite Genesis, Genealogy, and Genetics | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu (PDF) Decolonization on the Salish Sea: A Tribal Journey back to Mormon Studies | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu The Spiritual Evolution of Margarito Bautista – Elisa Eastwood Pulido – Oxford University Press (oup.com) Dr Elisa Pulido discusses Margarito Baustista, Nahua Mormon, with Dr Thomas Murphy – YouTube The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Mexico | SpringerLink Unboxing the Fernando R. and Enriqueta Gomez Mormon Mexican History Collection (Exhibit Extended!) – The Claremont Colleges Library NEH Summer Institutes Program – Claremont Mormon Studies (cgu.edu) Conferences – Mormon Studies – The University of Utah (PDF) An Insufficient Canon: Popol Wuj, Book of Mormon, and Other Neophyte Scriptures | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu

What is the greatest problem in the LDS Church? That question is at the heart of this week’s episode. Jim Bennett is our guest this week on Mormonism LIVE, as we explore this question and some of the territory surrounding it.

Apostasy is something the LDS Church show serious concern over. And why shouldn’t they knowing James Strang, Lorin C. Wooley, Denver Snuffer, Julie Rowe all have led Splinter Factions of one sort or another that have had influence over segments of Latter-day Saints. The idea that a few voices or even a single voice can sway large groups of people into disaffection has the Brethren always on guard. But often the heart of the issue is the lack of listening on the part of the Leaders themselves who can in fact be their own worst enemy. We dive into one such story where LDS Leadership and those they call to preside often become their very own stumbling block as we discuss “The Third Convention”. Rey Lucero Pratt  Born October 11 1878 PRATT’S PARENTS Pratt was born in Salt Lake City, Utah Territory, the fourth child of Helaman Pratt and Emmeline Victoria Billingsley Pratt. When Rey was nine, the Pratts moved to Mexico to help settle Colonia Dublán, a Mormon colony in the northern state of Chihuahua. His father was settling in Mexico to escape being prosecuted by the United States federal government for practicing polygamy (Note to the audience that Helaman is a polygamist and has more than one wife). Rey grew up in Mexico, learning to appreciate its history and people. Somewhere along the way he and at least some of his siblings became mexican citizens REY PRATT & ORSON F WHITNEY & Hyrum Harris Apostle Orson F. Whitney set Pratt apart as a missionary on 4 October 1906. On 1 November, Pratt arrived by train in Mexico City and reported to the mission home. He served for nearly a year under mission president Hyrum S. Harris, during which time he presided over the Toluca conference for seven months. Then, on 25 August 1907, Harris announced that Pratt would replace him as president of the Mexican Mission. Pratt was set apart by Harris on 29 September and the Pratts moved to Mexico City shortly thereafter. Pratt started as president of the Mexican mission in 1907.  Church membership in Mexico more than doubled during Pratt’s first six years as mission president. By 1911, over a thousand church members lived in the Mexican Mission. THE CRISTERO REBELLION [ Cristero Rebellion, a peasant uprising from 1926 to 1929, pushed Mexico to the brink of political chaos. The Cristeros generally saw the conflict as a religious war against the anticlericalism of the Mexican government. This anticlericalism originated in northern Mexico, where North American-style entrepreneurs, Protestant converts, and ambitious politicians built a movement to transform their traditionally Catholic nation into a center of secular economic expansion. The movement’s leading proponent, Plutarco Elías Calles (president of Mexico, 1924–1928), placed rigid regulations on the church, including required registration of priests and the closing of church schools. The church responded with a strike—the cessation of religious services—which caused a panic among the faithful. In Jalisco and the surrounding states of central Mexico, this panic sparked a peasant rebellion. Government claims that the rebels were superstitious tools of scheming priests were largely propaganda. Only about 45 of the 3,600 priests in Mexico supported the rebellion. The Cristeros were indigenous and mestizo peasants whose motives for rebellion were mixed. Most acted to defend their faith against an expansive secular state, while others seized the opportunity to demand more extensive land reform] – https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/cristero-rebellion  The Cristero rebellion of 1926 had disrupted the religious atmosphere in Mexico for nine years and forced all foreign clergy out of Mexico. (The rebellion was instigated as a response to an executive decree by Mexican President Plutarco Elías Calles to strictly enforce Article 130 of the Constitution, a decision known as Calles Law. Calles sought to eliminate the power of the Catholic Church in Mexico, its affiliated organizations and to suppress popular religiosity.) However, Mexico’s political climate gradually worsened. Porfirio Diaz, Mexico’s longtime dictator, lost control of the government and revolution ensued. Shortly after serious fighting began in Mexico City in 1913, the church’s First Presidency authorized the Pratts and the American missionaries to return to the United States. The Pratts moved to Salt Lake City in September 1913. Two years later, the First Presidency again instructed the Pratts to move, this time to Manassa, Colorado, and establish missionary work among Mexicans in the United States. After five years, in November 1918, church leaders moved the mission headquarters to El Paso, Texas, making it closer to the center of the vast mission territory. In March 1921, Pratt reopened missionary work in Mexico with eight missionaries. In November, jurisdiction of the Juárez Stake in Chihuahua was

On this week’s episode we take a deeper look at the 1826 trial in Bainbridge, NY. We examine what led to the trial, what witnesses claimed, what we know about the trial proceedings, how Smith and Stowell got introduced to each other, and a few other interesting facts along the way that make this such an interesting episode in Church history. This outline was used in preparation for Mormonism LIVE: 099 : The 1826 Trial of Joseph Smith, The Glass Looker – https://youtu.be/A2JxyoOtNlM On this week’s episode we take a deeper look at the 1826 trial in Bainbridge, NY. We examine what led to the trial, what witnesses claimed, what we know about the trial proceedings, how Smith and Stowell got introduced to each other, and a few other interesting facts along the way that make this such an interesting episode in Church history. A.) SET THE STAGE Spring of 1825, Joseph Smith is at Simpson (Simeon in some records) Stowell’s home in palmyra when Simpson’s father Josiah Stowell visits him and Joseph Smith uses his seer ability, presumably the stone in the hat and proceeds to amaze those in attendance with a couple of “Remote Viewing” performances such as describing Josiah’s house and outhouses correctly while all of them are at palmyra and Stowell’s property for which presumably Joseph Smith had never seen, is located in Bainbridge NYJosiah Stowell, so amazed at the Prophet’s ability, hires him to both work the farm and to lead treasure digs near Stowell’s property in NY (SLIDE 1)Several Members of Stowell’s family, Joseph Smith Jr. and Sr., Isaac Hale and other members of the Hale family and a few others make a “mining” agreement on Nov 1st 1825 (SLIDE 2 & 3) and the Church agrees it is Authentic Joseph Smith is living on Stowell’s property for about half a year working the farm and doing these treasure digs but they are finding absolutely nothing and these digs are failing at every turn.Members of Stowell’s family along with others in the community perceive that Stowell is being taken advantage of and on March 20th 1826 Joseph Smith is brought before the court on charges of being a “disorderly person and an imposter”The trial is first printed in Fraser Magazine February 1873 Edition and then reprinted again in the Utah Christian Advocate January 1886 Edition (SLIDE 4 & 5)Frasers Magazine 12 July 1873 http://www.fullerconsideration.com/images/frasersmagazine08unkngoog_0243-0244.jpg (Document page 229 [pdf 248])https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/appendix-docket-entry-20-march-1826-state-of-new-york-v-js-a/1 B.) Where does the author in Fraser’s Magazine locate this trial record? In Bainbridge? Nope. From enemies? Nope. Rather from an old lady in Salt Lake City who kept records of Joseph Smith’s altercations with the Law. (SLIDE 6)It gets worse though because the Utah Christian Advocate says this was taken directly from the record books of a bainbridge justice of the peace by a daughter or niece (suspicion since he doesn’t know) who tore the record out of the books and the author claims he verified. (SLIDE 6) C.) Capt’n Kidd W.D Purple is in 1877 in the Chenango Union is giving us info about these treasure Digging activities and implies that Stowell is looking for Capt’n Kidd’s treasure.Notice the implication that Stowell knows the story of Capt’n Kidd – hence we should expect that Joseph is informed about said stories too. Not appropriate to start with the assumption he may not have known them. More rational to start with he did. (SLIDE 7)According to J. H. Kennedy, Joseph “made confession” that the autobiography of Captain Kidd “made a deep impression upon him.” Kennedy does not say in what context Smith made this “confession.” Palmyra native Philetus B. Spear recalled in an 1873 interview that as a boy Joseph “had for a library a copy of the ‘Arabian Nights,’ stories of Captain Kidd, and a few novels.”89 Pomeroy Tucker also mentions Joseph’s youthful fascination with Captain Kidd, Stephen Burroughs the counterfeiter, and others, noting that such stories “presented the highest charms for his expanding mental perceptions.”90 Ellen E. Dickinson similarly wrote: It is said that Joseph at an early age could read, but not write; and when quite young committed these lines to memory from the story of Captain Kidd, the notorious pirate, which seemed to give him great pleasure: “My name was Robert Kidd, As I sailed, as I sailed; And most wickedly I did As I sailed, as I sailed.”91 D.) The Proceedings themselves Living w/ Stowell (5 Months) most of the time and a small part of time out looking for mines. But mostly farm work and going to schoolSome quotes indicate that Smith used treasure digging as a way to get out of farm work while still bringing in the needed income.Had been employed to work at the farm part time E.) Joseph Smi

In this Episode Bill and RFM will go into a story few members know about in regards to the Prophet Joseph Smith and one of his young plural wives. It involves some re-gifting, a land deal, and Harsh Measures T-Shirt Contest Voting takes place here – https://forms.gle/MzBroWzRvk7EFEpQ9 A.) Lucien Woodworth born April 3rd 1799 becomes a close associate of Joseph Smith around the year 1841  a.) Appointed aide-de-camp in Nauvoo Legion, May 1841 b.) Member of Nauvoo Masonic Lodge c.) Admitted to Council of Fifty, 11 Mar. 1844 d.) Traveled to Texas to negotiate with Sam Houston for possible Latter-day Saint settlement, 1844. e.) Sent by JS to deliver letter explaining Latter-day Saint difficulties to Illinois governor Thomas Ford, 22 June 1844. Married Phebe Watrous in 1825 and had at least 3 children (seen in 1850 Census) The oldest of those children is Flora Ann Woodworth born June 12, 1826 according to one genealogy site and November 14, 1826 according to Brian Hales B.) The Interactions between The Woodworth family and the Smiths generally March 31, 1843 ~ Friday On the 31 friday I spent the afternoon at Mr Lucian Woodworth’s in company with Joseph Smith, Hiram Smith, Heber C. Kimball Orson Hyde, a Br Chase with our wives we had a feast of a fat turkey & had a good time (Before her Sealing to JS most likely) –   C.) Strange Interactions with potential suitor nineteen-year-old Orange Wight (Son of Lyman Wight) pursued Flora Ann and is interrupted and offered a ride by Joseph Smith He wrote, “[Having just returned from a mission] I concluded to lo[o]k about and try to pick up one or more of the young Ladies before they were all Gone, so I commenced keeping company with Flora Woodworth… [We were walking near Joseph’s home when he (JS) rode up in a carriage and invited us to take a ride]  D.) William Clayton records multiple visits by the Prophet to see young Flora Ann Woodworth March 31, 1843 ~ Friday On the 31 friday I spent the afternoon at Mr Lucian Woodworth’s in company with Joseph Smith, Hiram Smith, Heber C. Kimball Orson Hyde, a Br Chase with our wives we had a feast of a fat turkey & had a good time (Before her Sealing to JS most likely) May 2nd: “Joseph rode out today with Flora W.”   June 1st: “Evening Joseph rode in the carriage with Flora.”   August 26th: “Hyrum and I rode up to my house and Joseph met Mrs. Wdth and F[lora] and conversed some time.”   August 28th: “President Joseph met Ms Wdth at my house.”   August 29th: “A.M. at the Temple. President Joseph at my house with Miss Wdth.”  E.) Joseph Smith seems to be in the picture a lot but this is because 16 year old Flora Ann has by the Spring of 1843 become a plural wife of the Prophet Joseph Smith 1.) In the spring of 1843 Joseph Smith was sealed to 16 year old Flora Ann Woodworth According to Brian Hales “A March 4, 1843, entry in the Prophet’s diary appears to have been written “Woodworth,” which is crossed out and is difficult to discern. The name “Woodworth” appears interlineally above in shorthand, so it is possible they were sealed that day.” Those visits by Smith to Flora recorded by Clayton – they have already been sealed/married by then  2.) That story w/ Orange Wight…  here is the rest of the story “I was walking along the street with Flora near the Prophet’s residence when he, Joseph, drove, up in his carriage, stopped and spoke to I and Flora and asked us to get in the carriage and ride with him. He opened the door for us and when we were seated opposite to him he told the driver to drive on. We went to the [Nauvoo] temple lot and many other places during the afternoon and then he drove to the Woodworth house and we got out and went in. After we got in the house Sister Woodworth took me in another room and told me that Flora was one of Joseph’s wives. I was aware or believed that Eliza R. Snow and the two Partridge girls were his wives but was not informed about Flora. But now Sister Woodworth gave me all the information necessary, so I knew Joseph believed and practiced polygamy…Now as a matter of corse I at once—after giving her Flora/ a mild lecture left her and looked for a companion in other places, and where I could be more sure. I was now called on a mission to go up the river 5 or 6 hundred miles to make lumber for the Nauvoo house and Temple.” Mild Lecture Joseph gets him out of town sending him on a mission 500 to 600 miles away….   F.)  The Gift Giving of a Gold Watch Emma somehow becomes aware that Flora Woodworth has on her person a Gold watch which she comprehends is the Gold Watch of her Husband and the Prophet Joseph Smith (RFM to give most rational explanation).  We know this because William Clayton records the following “President Joseph told me that he had difficulty with E[mma] yesterday. She rode up to Woodworths with him and called while he came to t

A listener was able to have a candid chat with Elder Bednar recently and agreed to share with us how it went! This is part 2 of that conversation. Join us live!

RFM and Bill Reel will sit down with author Cheryl Bruno to discuss her book “Method Infinite: Freemasonry and the Mormon Restoration”. Synopsis of her book – “While no one thing can entirely explain the rise of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the historical influence of Freemasonry on this religious tradition cannot be refuted. Those who study Mormonism have been aware of the impact that Freemasonry had on the founding prophet Joseph Smith during the Nauvoo period, but his involvement in Freemasonry was arguably earlier and broader than many modern historians have admitted. The fact that the most obvious vestiges of Freemasonry are evident only in the more esoteric aspects of the Mormon faith has made it difficult to recognize, let alone fully grasp, the relevant issues. Even those with both Mormon and Masonic experience may not be versed in the nineteenth-century versions of Masonry’s rituals, legends, and practices. Without this specialized background, it is easy to miss the Masonic significance of numerous early Mormon ordinances, scripture, and doctrines. Method Infinite: Freemasonry and the Mormon Restoration offers a fresh perspective on the Masonic thread present in Mormonism from its earliest days. Smith’s firsthand knowledge of and experience with both Masonry and anti-Masonic currents contributed to the theology, structure, culture, tradition, history, literature, and ritual of the religion he founded.” Resources: Cheryl’s Book – https://www.amazon.com/Method-Infinite-Freemasonry-Mormon-Restoration/dp/1589587537 http://www.skirret.com/archive/misc/misc-m/mormonsmasonryandthemorganaffair.html Mormon Discussion: 363: Signs, Tokens & Penalties – The LDS Mormon Temple Ceremony 139: Greg Kearney: Mormonism & Masonry https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/masonry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Freemasonryhttps://www.mrm.org/masonry-and-the-mormon-temple-endowment-ceremony

A listener was able to have a candid chat with Elder Bednar recently and agreed to share with us how it went! Join us live!

Dan Vogel joins RFM to discuss the Occult in the Life of Joseph Smith and his family.

In Mormon parlance, the Tar and Feathering of Joseph Smith is a faith promoting story about a mob of mean men punishing Joseph Smith for being a prophet. But it doesn’t take one long when their ears are to the ground in non-correlated circles to hear rumblings that the tar and feathering is connected to something more devious on Joseph Smith’s end. In this episode Bill & RFM explore the story of Joseph Smith’s being tarred and feathered to see what info there is that can best explain this mob mentality in the wee hours of the morning of March 25, 1832. A.) Setup of the story with the context of how Joseph Smith was in Hiram Ohio and what other historical context is needed to help people grasp this moment historically (Leaving out the possible scandalous context) In 1818, John and Alice (known as Elsa) Johnson came to Hiram, Ohio, about 31 miles southeast of Kirtland. The family lived in several log cabins while they built a home directly across the road. The Johnsons had 15 children; 9 lived to adulthood: Alice, Fanny, John Jr., Luke, Olmstead, Lyman, Emily, Marinda, and Justin.Sidney Rigdon became a pastor in Mentor Ohio(adjacent & NE of Kirtland). He became converted to Mormonism via Parley Pratt’s mission whom he knew, while Smith lived in NY. After Sidney Rigdon baptized John and Elsa’s 19-year-old son, Lyman, in February 1831, the couple read the Book of Mormon and believed.  By May, all members of the Johnson family were baptized except Olmstead, who had moved to Mexico.Later that year, the Prophet, seeking a peaceful, secluded place in which to continue his work of translating the Bible, accepted an invitation from the Johnsons to live in their home. Joseph and Emma came on 12 September 1831 with their four-month-old adopted twins, Joseph and Julia. Converts Sidney and Phebe Rigdon settled with their six young children across the road in a log cabin.Elsa Johnson the wife of John Johnson, who had suffered from chronic rheumatism in her arm for years, asked John to take her to Kirtland so the Prophet Joseph Smith could heal her. When the Prophet blessed her, she was completely healed. (Even some quakers make mention of this healing)Some of the following is overlap but it also contains additional facts After returning to Ohio from Missouri in late August 1831, JS made preparations to move his family from Kirtland to Hiram, Ohio, where he planned to resume his “translation,” or revision, of the Bible—a project he had been working on since 1830. The move occurred on 12 September 1831, following a conference held in Kirtland that same day.1 In Hiram, JS and his family stayed at the John and Alice (Elsa) Jacobs Johnson home, sleeping probably in a back room on the main level. In the end of October, the Johnsons partitioned an upstairs room, creating a work space for JS in the southeast portion of the house, where he worked on the Bible revision.2 Beginning in September, John Whitmer served as scribe for this project, working on the books of Matthew and Mark, until Sidney Rigdon assumed this responsibility in November.3 Periodically, JS traveled to Kirtland or other townships in northeastern Ohio to conduct church business,4 but he spent most of the fall in Hiram. B.) How the mob mentality was built up and tensions arose In the early 1831, Ezra Booth and Symonds Ryder, both ministers joined Mormonism. Booth and Ryder became strong supporters of Smith and Rigdon.  While Booth was on a church mission to Jackson County, Missouri, he witnessed a dispute between Edward Partridge, Bishop of the Mormon Church in Jackson County, and Joseph Smith. Booth became disillusioned with Mormonism and returned to Ohio to report what he had seen in Missouri.  Symonds Ryder also became disaffected for mulitple reasons though one of those is that after Joseph alleged a revelation calling Ryder to serve a mission. Smith and Rigdon both signed the official call but misspelled Ryder’s name. Ryder thought a real revelation from God would never do such a thing.(Didn’t he read the Book of Mormon) When Booth and Ryder met in the fall of 1831, they shared their experiences and concluded that they had been deceived. They both left Mormonism and returned to their former faiths. Both men became strong critics of Mormonism in Ohio, focusing on Smith and Rigdon. Booth, at the encouragement of a Reverend Ira Eddy, wrote nine letters to the Ohio Star newspaper published between October and December, 1831.  The letters criticized Mormon doctrines and Smith’s and Rigdon’s character and accused the Mormon leaders of a scheme to get control of their followers’ property (D&C 51 United Order/Law of Consecration). These letters were widely circulated and generated fierce local opposition to the Mormons. By December of 31, Smith and Rigdon temporarily paused their revision of the bible to start rebutting the accusations by Booth and Ryder. Rigdon had his own letters published to t

RFM and Bill sit down with Movie Director Richard Dutcher to explore his career directing the movies God’s Army, Brigham City, & States of Grace. We take a look at these films through the perspective of Richard’s faith journey and take an evening to get to know the man who kicked of Mormon cinema. RESOURCES: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dutcher https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0244756/ https://youtu.be/9ZHKEOeHAcA https://youtu.be/9ZgNxauxz-8 https://youtu.be/7HntR1RjEYc https://youtu.be/TKINAOCVvKg https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1979/05/trust-in-the-lord?lang=eng (12:00) https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2015/06/michael-reed-and-the-symbol-of-the-cross/ (Richard mentioned the use of the cross in his movies so this might help give context)

Throughout multiple talks including one released just a few days ago, Sister Bonnie Cordon, Young Women general president, has spoke about the loss of her Grandson, Derek within Church approved channels. What she doesn’t say is that the death of this child is surrounded by horrific details that contradict witness statements that involve allegations of child abuse, arrests, homicide, and aggravated Child Abuse charges. We expose this story shining a light on the details of a story where nothing adds up. Everyone in the Church seems willing to use this story to promote the LDS Church but no one wants to clearly explain what happened to this little boy. RESOURCES: Bonnie Cordon General YW President – www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/young-women-general-presidency?lang=eng Elder Holland joking about Cordon’s being poor www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp8dfu3TEG0&t=3180s 2019 BYU Women’s Conference – https://youtu.be/8xGA6KpBk5I?t=5672BYU Devotional Feb 4th 2020 –  https://youtu.be/cLLShkcaWWM?t=935 www.thechurchnews.com/2020/2/4/23215865/sister-cordon-byu-devotional-prayer BYU Devotional Feb 4th 2020 –  https://youtu.be/cLLShkcaWWM?t=935 Hear Him Recent       https://youtu.be/oxpr87qHhzULDS Mag getting in on the action – https://latterdaysaintmag.com/how-president-cordon-learned-to-hearhim-after-her-grandsons-death/ The 4 Page Report – https://www.myflfamilies.com/childfatality/reports/2016-344471.pdf page 1 w/ highlights – https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Cordon1.png page 2 w/ highlights – https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Cordon2.png page 3 w/ highlights – https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Cordon3.png page 4 w/ highlights – https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Cordon4.png Point out the important facts and anomaliesGently Shook him and put hand over his mouth – we know from the obituary that little Derek had a learning disability, which assuredly would make it more difficult for a 2.5 year old to grasp what might be happening as he wakes up from a nightmare in a strange place. Was she possibly admitting in part to a minimized version of what she did or is it a misdirection that takes away focus from the father?The Father imposes he only was present and aware of the situation once it had gone southMidnight and leaves hotel at 12:53 AM (almost an hour from initial event to leaving for the hospitalMedical Team made CONCLUSION Hana shook the child too hard and that the father was neglectful in not responding fasterThe Family did not call 911 in a in the face of an emergency in a foreign city.The Family did not try to grab their sister who is a “RN” (Registered Nurse) who is also on vacation in the same hotel as they are.The mother, Hana drove alone to the hospital with the childHana is arrested on December 9th and charged with Aggravated Child Abuse (child hasn’t died yet as he passes away the following day on the 10th).Sometime between the event and the date of this report on May 2017 the State Attorney isn’t going to prosecuteNeither parents could give an explanation that was consistent with the injuries and the investigation after 5 months deemed the mother action’s impulsive and violent and the father’s inaction having led to this child’s death, all while the entire Cordon family is on vacation in a different state with their RN sister across the hall.11 month old these parents were allowed to go back to in spite of this being a “very high risk” case with “out of control” parenting (THIS IS A QUESTION) 12. From December 9th 2016 to May 11th 2017, the State of Florida has maintained that this was a homicide caused by the parents of Derek Cordon to little Derek with the parents offering no satisfactory explanation. Contradictions between the report and what other sources such as LDS material saysBonnie H. Cordon was named the Young Women general president on March 31, 2018. https://youtu.be/8xGA6KpBk5I?t=5672  – Weird that she says “Suspicion that someone was getting away with something” when that seems to be exactly what happened but not about the same thing. – they are all at the airport together going home.“he unexpectedly passed away”   Something “Stepford Wives” about these women (I asked myself “Where would people never notice a town full of robots?”. Connecticut.)Feb 4th 2020 BYU Devotional https://youtu.be/cLLShkcaWWM?t=935 “In the middle of the fourth night, little Derek stopped breathing, and his parents rushed him to the hospital” – That is not what happened.  Why does she want the story framed this way?  Surely since she was there, she knows that Hana drove the child to the hospital alone. She says she stayed behind with the family.  Surely she remembers her son was there with her. Surely she is aware that they didn’t rush but instead took almost an h

This week RFM and Bill sit down with the creator and musical artist known as Weird Alma. Weird Alma has brought us musical parodies such as Gaslighting, S.C.M.C., Tapirback Rider, You’re (Several Months Shy of) Fifteen, and many more. Weird Alma shows us firsthand that humor and music can play a role in our processing and healing from religious trauma. Resources: https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/116pages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrisite_War https://gdoc.pub/doc/e/2PACX-1vRh7CxIlETHNYtH5jk0MXsWc5FVChckAUODY2QDGjLCjDGYWFgzOlGq1JORs4EZsbDzh63DvdShYNU1 http://johnlarsen.org/podcast/Archive/MormonExpression276.mp3 Weird Alma the artist is not associated with Mormon Discussion Inc. or the Mormonism LIVE Show.  His song’s contain similar tunes and lyrics to other well known songs.  He holds that said use of music falls under FAIR USE and under the realm of Parody.  Parody is a literary or musical work in which the style of an author or work is closely imitated for comic effect.  Eric Herman offers his parody songs for free hence his music is not for commercial use.  The only monetary gain for Mormon Discussion Inc (a Federally approved Non-profit) is youtube advertising which it is sharing per youtube’s agreement with the original artists.

Mormonism LIVE: 089: Manipulation, Money, & Mormon Sex Abuse On this Episode Bill 7 RFM take a look at the recent Sex Abuse Scandal trying to explore the legal process and try to better understand the LDS Church’s perspective. We look at the Arizona Law, talk about the when , how, and why about the Church’s helpline. They sort through why the Church imposes non-reporting in states that give a choice. And they finish talking about the newest press release on the issue released during their live show. Resources: Confession in LDS Doctrine and Practice https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2022/08/12/brenton-erickson-gerardo-sumano/? fbclid=IwAR0jfW9LUQzC5zKcwBXVaoaa7rhcOrwFIRAHs3lr2h6LTIykF_rjmWVBm6w https://apnews.com/article/Mormon-church-sexual-abuse-investigation-e0e39cf9aa4fbe0d8c1442033b894660 https://apnews.com/article/Mormon-church-sexual-abuse-takeaways-f01fba7521ddddffa89622668b54ac10 https://www.deseret.com/2022/8/5/23292405/i-survived-abuse-church-help-line-ap-story-broke-my-heart-latter-day-saints-associated-press-mormon https://www.deseret.com/faith/2022/8/17/23310740/statement-from-church-on-arizona-sex-abuse-case-mormon-lds https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/8/12/23303040/utah-lawmakers-seek-end-clergy-exception-child-abuse-reporting-latter-day-saint-catholic https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-provides-further-details-about-arizona-abuse-case

A USAF sergeant explains how the strict demands of Mormonism broke him as a young man, making him feel completely alone and unaccepted by God, even causing eating disorders. After every solution the Church offered failed, he finally found healing through secular means.

Today we dive deep into the idea that Mormonism grooms compliance. We start by showing it is the baseline of our theology and belief system. We show how it is reinforced by our stories and songs, show all the pervasive ways it shows up in our faith system. And even how the Leaders impose such on each other. And then discuss how unhealthy such is. A.) Obedience is the First Law of Heaven or the ground zero of theology/commandments “Obedience is the first law of heaven, the cornerstone upon which all righteousness and progression rest. It consists in compliance with divine law, in conformity to the mind and will of Deity, in complete subjection to God and his commands” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 539).D&C 130: 20-21 – There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— 21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.It is important to obey God even when we may not fully understand the commandment (see Moses 5:5–6; 1 Nephi 3:7). B.)  The constant teaching that answering NO is not allowed and how it is a “Thought Stopping Technique”  It starts young Don’t say no to a boy at a danceAt a young age, girls getting used to complying to the men in their livesWhat 8 year old says no to baptism.  Isn’t it strange that no one says no.  If everyone says yes, is it really a choice? It is persistent – Don’t say no to a calling“Just as service in the Church is not sought, it is not turned down,” Oaks“I often hear about members who refuse Church callings or accept callings and fail to fulfill their responsibilities. Some are not committed and faithful. It has always been so. But this is not without consequence . . . My brothers and sisters, if you are delinquent in commitment, please consider who it is you are refusing or neglecting to serve when you decline a calling or when you accept, promise, and fail to fulfill.” oaks “While we do not ask to be released from a calling, if our circumstances change it is quite in order for us to counsel with those who have issued the call and then let the decision rest with them.” – Boyd K PackerGet married youngDon’t put off having children, don’t use birth control, have lots of childrenIt culminated in the temple Do you covenant to obey your husband as he obeys God?Bow your head and say yes“Give all your time, talent, and EVERYTHING you possess to the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints.”Contention is of the devil – making disagreement bad and the higher authority always winsGod commanding Adam to sacrifice animals (Moses 5: 4-7). Adam follows the command for many days until eventually an angel appears and asks why Adam is performing the sacrifices. Adam respond, “I know not, save the Lord commanded me.” – you do not need a reason to obeynon-levite steadying the arkFollow the Prophet – he can’t lead us astray – What does this even mean since there are numerous occasion where false doctrines have been taught and believed?President Harold B. Lee (1899–1973) taught this same principle: “You keep your eye upon him whom the Lord called, and I say to you now, knowing that I stand in this position, you don’t need to worry about the President of the Church ever leading people astray, because the Lord would remove him out of his place before He would ever allow that to happen” (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1996], 533).President Gordon B. Hinckley (1910–2008) gave similar assurance to Church members: “The Church is true. Those who lead it have only one desire, and that is to do the will of the Lord. They seek his direction in all things. There is not a decision of significance affecting the Church and its people that is made without prayerful consideration, going to the fount of all wisdom for direction. Follow the leadership of the Church. God will not let his work be led astray” (“Be Not Deceived,” Ensign, Nov. 1983, 46; emphasis added).“When the Prophet speaks, … the debate is over” (Ensign, Nov. 1978, p. 108).Perpetual inadequacy instead of critical thinking – You are broken and fallen and need us more than we need you so get in line.For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.Agency doesn’t work the way we thought.  Agency is only to provide a space to choose God at all times – ”You have agency in order to show willing compliance”Elder Bednar teaching such – https://www.youtube.com/watch?

Major News in Mormonism happened this week when a photograph surfaced alleging to be the Prophet Joseph Smith. So Bill and RFM dug into the story and followed the trail examining the Photographs, Portraits, Daguerreotypes, and other depictions both known to be Joseph for certain and also alleged to see if we could get to the bottom of what Joseph Smith really looked like.RESOURCES: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2012/12/small-and-simple-things/what-did-joseph-smith-really-look-like?lang=eng What Did Joseph Smith Really Look Like? 8 Images That Provide Us With Clues Hidden Things: What did Joseph Smith Actually Look Like? https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/1997-12-06/what-did-joseph-smith-really-look-like-128922 Book – Images of the Prophet Joseph Smith: Davis Bitton – https://www.amazon.com/Images-Prophet-Joseph-Smith-Bitton/dp/1562362232 https://ensignpeakfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Skulls-and-Crossed-Bones-A-Forensic-Study-of-the-Remains-of-Hyrum-and-Joseph-Smith.pdf https://www.knowbrotherjoseph.com/death-mask-unreliable AI can analyse a portrait and calculate what the actual person may have looked like in real life, based on techniques and styles common at a given time or in a given place. This is what AI thinks Joseph and Emma Smith may have looked like from latterdaysaints All the pieces fit from latterdaysaints http://silverepicent.com/photofound/photofound/Photograph_Found/RLDS_Painting.htmlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5aUTj-VvRM – Historical discussion of the Joseph Smith photo discovery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rspFgoyU5Hg – amateur facial analysis of the Death Mask and the newly discovered photo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzk4Z4Wrz38 – 2nd amateur facial analysis of the Death Mask and the newly discovered photo.

RFM and Bill sit down with Ronald Huggins, author of the new book “Lighthouse: Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Despised and Beloved Critics of Mormonism” & Sandra Tanner who is featured in the book to discuss some of the interesting stories that went into the published work. And towards the end of the show we discuss Bill recently dealing with a threat from the son of one of the General Authorities who heads up the SCMC (Strengthening Church Members Committee) as well as Bill’s recent interaction with FAIR regarding God’s carnal intercourse with Mary, the Mother of Jesus

When RFM and Bill Reel joined Mormonism, they heard rumors that Early LDS Leaders had taught that Mary was impregnated by Heavenly Father via a sexual act. But the Church and its apologists insisted that such idea was a misconstrued out of context assumption and with a sleight of hand the problem was gone…. Or is it. Tonight on Mormonism LIVE, RFM and Bill Reel take a long hard look at where this idea comes from within the history and see if baby Jesus was in fact the illegitimate child of our heavenly father.RESOURCES: BRIGHAM YOUNG—APRIL 9, 1852—JD 1:50-51 https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/1861 (This is a BYU Library Digital Collections page)  My next sermon will be…. Stems from D&C 130:22 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/130?lang=eng     The father has a body of flesh and bones (resurrected from another world)    There are three personages; if only one, this question would never come up; but because there are three, and because we are being hyper-literal about things; this question does come up, and BY resolves the question by saying Jesus is not the son of the Holy Ghost, but the son of the Father.  Heber C. Kimball: SEPTEMBER 2, 1860 “In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it.” [Journal of Discourses vol. 8:211]  ORSON PRATT IN AGREEMENT! ORSON PRATT—The Seer, Vol 1. No. 10, 1853 (page 158-59) https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/NCMP1820-1846/id/18108 Orson Pratt: the Holy Ghost gave her [Mary] strength to abide in the presence of the Father without being consumed, but it was the personage of the Father who begat the body of Jesus; and for this reason Jesus is called ‘the Only Begotten of the Father;’ that is, the only one in this world whose fleshly body was begotten by the Father. There were millions of sons and daughters who he begat before the foundation of this world, but they were spirits, and not bodies of flesh and bones [The Seer, 158.] GOD MARRIED TO MARY—STARTS WITH ORSON PRATT? The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Savior unlawfully. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158)Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in the mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158) NOTE: Orson Pratt was opposed to BY on the Adam-God Theory; i.e., that it was Adam who came and had sex with Mary; but Orson Pratt was totally on board with the idea that Elohim did the exact same thing!  BUT THEN BRIGHAM YOUNG ECHOES THE IDEA Brigham Young AUGUST 19, 1866 “The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband.” [Journal of Discourses, vol. 11:268] Bill: Orson Pratt and Brigham Young Agree…. Huh –  It is not just a single quote “hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk”.    JESUS THE CHRIST—JAMES TALMAGE Mention My Special Little Leather Book! Chapter 7—Page 81 (published 1915) https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/jesus-the-christ/chapter-7?lang=eng  His message delivered, Gabriel departed, leaving the chosen Virgin of Nazareth to ponder over her wondrous experience. Mary’s promised Son was to be “The Only Begotten” of the Father in the flesh; so it had been both positively and abundantly predicted. True, the event was unprecedented; true also it has never been paralleled; but that the virgin birth would be unique was as truly essential to the fulfillment of prophecy as that it should occur at all. That Child to be born of Mary was begotten of Elohim, the Eternal Father, not in violation of natural law but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof; and, the offspring from that association of supreme sanctity, celestial Sireship, and pure though mortal maternity, was of right to be called the “Son of the Highest.” In His nature would be combined the powers of Godhood with the capacity and possibilities of mortality; and this through the ordinary operation of the fundamental law of heredity, declared of God, demonstrated by science, and admitted by philosophy, that living beings shall propagate—after their kind. The Child Je

If one is finally at a place where they really want to understand both sides, really want to wrestle with their faith, what are the books that best introduce the believer to the complex history, the fallibility of prophets, and the trauma of Mormon influence? Bill and RFM seek to lay out a list of books that introduce the reader to a more full picture of Mormonism, of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it leaders since that spring morning in 1820. Fawn Brodie – No Man Knows my HistoryRichard Bushman – Rough Stone RollingD. Michael Quinn – Early Mormonism and the Magic World ViewD. Michael Quinn – The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of PowerD. Michael Quinn – The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of PowerGreg Prince – Leonard Arrington and the Writing of Mormon HistoryGreg Prince – David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern MormonismPaul Reeve – Religion of a Different Color: Race and the Mormon Struggle for Whiteness Devery Scott Anderson – Development of LDS Temple WorshipTodd Compton – In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph SmithGrant Palmer – An Insider’s View of Mormon OriginsLinda King Newell & Valeen Tippetts Avery – Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale SmithCharley Harrel – This is My DoctrineJuanita Brooks – The Mountain Meadows MassacreCarol Lynn Pearson – Goodbye I Love YouGreg Prince – Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended ConsequencesEber D Howe – Mormonism Unveiled – Dan Vogel commentaryRobert Ritner—The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri: A Complete Edition https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smith-Egyptian-Papyri-Complete/dp/1560852321Robert Ritner—Paper—Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham— https://oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/Research_Archives/Translation%20and%20Historicity%20of%20the%20Book%20of%20Abraham%20final-2.pdfJeremy Runnells—CES Letterhttps://cesletter.org/

We sit down with Former BYU Professor, and author of the book “This Is My Doctrine: The Development of Mormon Theology”, Charley Harrell to dive into several important assumptions Mormonism and its leaders and members impose in order to cleanly define doctrine. But do these really hold up? Can the word Doctrine as used within the LDS Church be defined in such a way that any imposed definition can be dependable? A.) What is Church doctrine? Dictionary Definition = Doctrine comes from the Latin Doctrina which means “teachings.” The first definition that comes up in a Google search is from the Oxford English Dictionary: “a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group. ‘the doctrine of predestination’”  So essentially, religious doctrines are simply the teachings or beliefs of a particular religion. Generally Understood = The term “doctrine” is generally used in the Church to refer either to propositional statements about God and his works or to explanatory narratives about how God operates in the world. Propositional statements include: God has a body, God created the world, Christ died for the sins of the world. Explanatory narratives include: How the world came to be, How the priesthood works, How the Church was lost and restored, How the atonement and plan of salvation work.“Official” doctrine comprises those teachings which are found in the scriptures, current Church publications, and are agreed upon by the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12.Neil Anderson “Trial of Your Faith” – “A few question their faith when they find a statement made by a Church leader decades ago that seems incongruent with our doctrine. There is an important principle that governs the doctrine of the Church. The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk. True principles are taught frequently and by many. Our doctrine is not difficult to find. Periodical = https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2012/10/trial-of-your-faith?lang=engAudio = https://www.dropbox.com/s/q84cy1su76kkpw5/AndersonDoctrineNotHardToFind.mp3?dl=0 We should share briefly that LDS leaders have attempted to define doctrine in ways that expose that the word is fluid and simply doesn’t hold up to scrutiny or critical thinking. What does this definition say about doctrines that were widely taught in prior times and no longer taught today? Plural Marriage (MY EXPERIENCE IN HIGH PRIEST GROUP ABOUT DOCTRINE) Reason for the priesthood ban Lamanite identification Does the fact that it has to be taught by everyone in the 1st presidency and Q12 impose an unreasonably high bar? WASN’T THERE AT TIME NOT TOO LONG AGO WHEN DOCTRINE WAS ESTABLISHED FIRST BY WHETHER THE PROPHET SAID IT; THEN BY WHETHER IT WAS A FIRST PRESIDENCY STATEMENT; THEN (NOW) BY WHETHER ALL FIFTEEN AGREE? IT SEEMS THAT THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE FIRST PRESIDENCY AND QUORUM OF TWELVE HAVE ALL BUT DISAPPEARED AT LEAST WHEN IT COMES TO ESTABLISHING DOCTRINE Does Elder Anderson’s doctrine of doctrine meet his own criteria of doctrine? D. Todd Christofferson “At the same time it should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.””  Periodical = https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2012/04/the-doctrine-of-christ?lang=eng QUESTION: WHEN IS A PROPHET ACTING AS SUCH IF NOT WHEN HE IS ADDRESSING THE CHURCH IN HIS ROLE AS PROPHET?  IT SHOULD REALLY BE VERY SIMPLE; NOT A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD EVERY TIME A PROPHET SPEAKS AS A PROPHET AND GETS IT WRONG. Audio = https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6ar0dwvdfq1iv8/DoctrineVsStatementsCristofferson.mp3?dl=0 Other definitions given by the Church  (Don’t need to go in depth)“Doctrine—The truths of the gospel in general. Instruction and confirmation in the truths of the gospel.”Church Newsroom remains ambiguous The Church makes several claims about Mormon doctrines that together can be said to constitute the doctrine of LDS doctrine. But are these claims really warranted by empirical evidence? B.) Claims vs Realities Claim: Mormon doctrine derives primarily from the Standard Works and official statements of the Church leadership.The Church Newsroom states, “[Our] doctrine resides in the four ‘standard works’ of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith.” (LDS Newsroom 2007) THIS IS WHAT I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE IN THE WRITINGS OF BRM AND JFS; THAT DOCTRINE IS

Aleesha Franklin, daughter of Ponzi-scheme magnate Gaylen Rust, returns to Mormonism LIVE to share her personal story of how a catastrophic failure of Priesthood Leadership, both local and general, led to her disaffection from the LDS Church