Making Permaculture Stronger

This episode shares the continuation of the conversation Jason Gerhardt and I started in Episode 25. While we refer back to the below framework I was playing around with at the time we mainly explore drawing and mapping in relation to permaculture design as well as topics around certification, not needing permission, and more. Oh yeah at the start I refer back to this post where I explore generative transformation as an attitude not something dogmatic as regards to map or not to map. Jason directs the USA’s Permaculture Institute and Real Earth Design and I just love being in touch with him and having him as a colleague in this work and these adventures. Stay tuned for much deeply exciting stuff in the pipeline. Phase Two is about to kick in big time and I am going to need you to get involved. Finally here’s the place to voluntarily donate some of your hard-earned cash to this project. It makes a massive, huge difference even if just $1 per month so thanks if you even consider it let alone actually do it :-). For those of you interested in joining the new online community that meets every six weeks then join at the $10 tier or get in touch via the contact page to explore other options (as in, if you can’t afford it or whatever, then let’s figure something out!).

So what does my recent discussion of the problem with solving problems look like in relation to the trunk in the Permaculture Tree diagram? Well, the way I have come to see it is that the whole trunk is itself an imposition. What, wait, what? I believe the whole above-ground part of the permaculture tree has been growing from a grafted-on collection of design process understandings that were imported from outside.49 Imported from places like industrial design, engineering, architecture & landscape architecture.50 Because the scion wood and the rootstock were not a compatible match, the graft never really properly took. Indeed, as a result of it being there at all, the latent energy around permaculture generating its own process possibilities has either remained dormant in the roots, or been overruled by the DNA of the grafted-on material. You see where I am going with this. I don’t want to continue trying to patch up a trunk that in so many ways is a distraction from the work I’m here to participate in. I don’t want to be pulling apart layer upon layer of imported design process understandings that shoot permaculture in the foot by dishonouring its very essence.51 I want to dive deep into permaculture’s beautiful foundations and then to help grow and tend and realise fit-for-purpose design process understandings directly. Without distraction! What this means for me is… The Tree is Coming Down I am cutting the permaculture tree down. Consciously. Carefully. Lovingly. As a personal thought experiment, I’m cutting it down. Just below the place where the foreign design process understandings were imported and grafted on. To create a fresh surface from which all kinds of wild regrowth can spring forth. I am talking about the development of design process understandings that stem from permaculture’s own roots. From permaculture’s own DNA.52 I’m talking about consciously coppicing the permaculture tree, take three. To be clear, none of the tree is removed from the site after the coppicing operation. Yes, it will fall to the ground and it will remain there, branches, twigs, leaves. Hot compost the most diseased material, tuck the rest in around the stump. Where as fresh growth bursts forth, anything relevant breaks down and is reabsorbed and assimilated into the living tissue of the re-growing tree. Just think, the fungi are going to have a field day and there will be mushrooms by the plenty. In other words, nothing is lost. I would like to think the babies will gurgle in contented gratitude to be free of the bath water. This is when the real work begins. The work of tending to the new shoots. Watching them closely, nourishing them while delicate and young. As they grow, selectively removing weaker stems and shaping up those that remain for optimal health and form. Making Permaculture Stronger – Phase Two I declare Phase Two of Making Permaculture Stronger open. Phase Two is all about tapping into permaculture’s essence, its potential, then co-articulating from scratch design and creation process understandings that resonate with and actualise this potential every step of the way. Where those of us drawn to this work respectfully converse and collaborate in the hard, honest, yet immensely rewarding work of co-crafting, co-creating something fresh. Something authentic. Something alive. Something worthy of what Bill and David gifted the world in co-originating the permaculture concept. To me, this is one way of tapping the part of permaculture’s essence that Bill Mollison manifested when he talked about having lost heart in protesting and fighting against what he didn’t want. He retreated into the bush and when he came back he was a different person. He was intensely focused not on what he didn’t want, but on what he did want. He focused his fire and he took permaculture to the world, igniting a global movement. I don’t want to be against what I don’t like in permaculture any more. I want to be for what I love. I want to be for growing from that place and the incredible potential within it. Rather than feeling like I’m pissing on the permaculture party, I want to jump in with the crowd and to celebrate as we co-create new dance moves so wild and so alive that the concrete cracks open and long-dormant seeds germinate for miles in all directions! Let us honour the pioneers, honour all those who have contributed to permaculture’s incredible story and journey. Not by assuming that permaculture is finished and perfect and beyond improvement. I can imagine no greater insult to everything they stood for, stand for, to everything permaculture stands for. Confronting the fact that permaculture is not finished and perfect, I used to think I had two options: 1) Politely ignoring permaculture’s problems, tensions, issues and weaknesses or 2) going on about and trying to ‘fix’ them. I now see both as equally impotent. No more of that. Let us n

Note: This post may not make much sense unless you read (or listen to) the previous post first. What I’ve been doing… As reviewed in the last post, I have spent more than three-and-a-half years attempting to help strengthen permaculture’s weakest links, or, in other words, solve permaculture’s biggest problems. In this approach, success is tacitly defined as the degree to which the weak link or problem is made to go away.64 The Problem with Solving Problems Phase Two of Making Permaculture Stronger starts with my realisation that focusing on problems, even if the problems are getting solved, does not and cannot solve the problem that the whole approach of solving problems is itself, well, problematic.65 Joel Glanzberg has summarised the situation perfectly: We are so accustomed to machines and the mechanical world of Newtonian Physics that we can barely think about how to address the problems of a living world. We try to fix them as we would an old truck: We identify the bad part that is to blame for the problem and repair, replace, or remove it. This is our general approach to everything from medicine to foreign policy to justice. We try to get tumors, dictators and other “bad guys” to reform or we simply replace them. Then, we are continually surprised when new tumors, symptoms, or bad guys promptly arise to take their place. Changing the manifestation of living systems without shifting the underlying causal patterns will always be an uphill battle and often takes us in the wrong direction, like super-gluing the cracks in a hatching eggshell. As has Carol Sanford (in this article): When you start well-intended efforts by identifying a “problem,” you are trapped into thinking that you have to fix it. This leads you on a search for the causes and results in efforts to try out many solutions. It pulls all of your energy toward an endless effort that is based on the mindset that got people into the rut in the first place. Einstein warned us about that. Hmmm. This is exactly the sense in which I have been trying to ‘solve permaculture’s problems.’ Oh well, it’s not like nothing good has come from this approach (and yet it is time for a fundamental change of direction)… Now I do not think all this effort has been a waste. Absolutely not! I have learned a heap that has really boosted my ability to serve as a permaculture design process facilitator. I know this is also true for permaculture colleagues around the world. Almost weekly someone reaches out with gratitude for how this project has inspired and supported them to deepen their own design process understandings and practices. Nonetheless, I’m clear it’s time Making Permaculture Stronger explicitly extracts itself from the business of dabbling in problems. Where I spend countless hours focusing on aspects of permaculture that I don’t even like. On weak links. On problems. Problems that worry me. Problems that demoralise me. Problems that as best I can tell are getting in the way of permaculture’s ability to evolve toward deeper and fuller expressions of its potential. I’m glad for everything this effort has created and I want to make a clean break from the whole mentality. It is time for something different. Thankfully there is an alternative that resonates so deeply it brings shivers to my spine. Regenerating from the Core Having spelled out the futility of the problem-solving mentality, Carol Sanford brilliantly illuminates an alternative approach: Okay! Okay! So what do we do? As crazy as it sounds, we skip over what exists. We act as though the problem doesn’t matter. This sounds harsh, even cruel, but consider: within regenerative processes, problems are not useful information. Nature doesn’t care that rat populations are exploding in the suburban countryside. Regeneration in this instance occurs when this niche within the ecosystem is filled by returning populations of foxes and owls. Circumventing problems is how much real change comes about and particularly the kinds of change that disrupt markets—and also history, for that matter. Instead of lamenting a problem, ask, “What are customers (or the planet or social groups) seeking to achieve and why?” This is the route to the creation of something that doesn’t yet exist. Don’t look at why current methods aren’t working. Keep your eye squarely on the your buyer’s intention, on the intentions of living systems and social groups. What problem? Wow! What an idea! Instead of lamenting the problem or problems, to take this approach we’d ask “what is permaculture’s core intention” and we proceed directly toward helping to realise that as if all the problems weren’t even there. For Carol, this entails, “going back to base material and regenerating from what is at the core.”66 Where we move from strengthening weak links or solving problems to unfolding potential: Seeing true potential requires u

Making Permaculture Stronger is about to cross a pivotal threshold in its evolution as a project. Let me explain… This project launched three and a half years ago with the intention to be… …a space where permaculture practitioners come together with a spirit of strengthening the design system aspect of permaculture by clarifying its weaknesses and coordinating efforts to address them. …where… The best way I know of strengthening something is to identify weak links and then to direct energy toward making them less weak. An early requirement for the project was to create a framework for thinking about all the different aspects of permaculture. Some way of holding the whole so that weak links could be honed in on and strengthened… Permaculture Tree (take three) Remember this? I sure do. I still find it helpful way of mapping out how all permaculture’s different aspects sit in relation to one another. I introduced my original illustration here and what follows is a new (draft) version beautifully illustrated by my friend and permaculture illustrator Brenna Quinlan. Note – the arrows leaving and entering the tree represent permaculture bringing foundational understandings in from outside and creating solutions that go out to become part of other approaches or the culture in general (as isolated things) To recap the main idea: permaculture has general foundational aspects that are universal in their relevance (roots) permaculture has specific solutions (design configurations, strategies, and techniques) that are appropriate in some situations and not in others (limbs, branches and leaves) the only thing that can get you from the foundations to the appropriate solutions for a given situation is sound design process (trunk) I can’t resist sharing two further aspects of the tree before I move on, given I just rediscovered Brenna’s lovely sketches of them. First, here’s a view from above where you might recognise something familiar. Second, the cyclic patterns of movement I’m using the tree to highlight are an instance of the pattern Bill Mollison called the core model.73 Brenna Quinlan’s sketches of two additional aspects of the Permaculture Tree (Take Three) The Original Plan Having created the original tree diagram, I hatched a cunning plan for the future of Making Permaculture Stronger. I was going to complete, and indeed have completed, a few inquiries myself. Each was to start with something permaculture seemed to have got wrong in terms of design process and end with some better alternative to it. I went so far as to prepare the below plan. I was going to put this out there once I had the ball rolling (as in about now). A diagram to set the parameters to invite others to come play this same game over and over. Together we were going to remedy permaculture’s issues, one strengthened weak link at a time.. My early masterplan for Making Permaculture Stronger Why I started with the Trunk I spent a few posts explaining why I chose to start my weak-link work in the region of the tree’s trunk, as in design process. I described the apparent lack of a deep, coherent, shared, widely used understanding of sound design process in permaculture as a foundational weak link. Foundational in the sense that all sorts of other littler weak links flowed from it. Foundational in the sense of a Type One Error. Here is how I originally diagramed it, noting that “the image I get is of a huge oak tree teetering on a feeble little stem”: The First Two Inquiries (and where they led me) I then started the first of two epic, in-depth inquiries where I honed in on problematic aspects of the shared understandings of permaculture design process that were available in the literature. In that sense I identified design process as a weak link then went looking for little weak links within the big weak link that were presumably making the big weak link weak! I dove deep into two of them… From Assembling Elements to Differentiating Whole Systems I have such fond memories of the opening post of the first inquiry, which drew on the work of Christopher Alexander to identify an initial problem: the common permaculture understanding that design is a process of assembling or combining parts or elements into whole systems. In doing so I shared Alexander’s alternative suggestion that systems and landscapes with the character of nature are achieved by a process of differentiating wholes into parts. The post stirred up a lot of fantastic commentary and dialogue. It was a great experience and so gratifying to have the interested attention and appreciation of colleagues (including the likes of David Holmgren, Dave Jacke and Toby Hemenway). If that particular post hadn’t been so well received I wonder if the project would have even continued. In any case, it did, going on to look into this issue in some depth, where ten posts later it had arr

I’m sure you’ll enjoy this rich, deep yet lively second conversation with Jason Gerhardt (first chat was here). Jason directs the USA’s Permaculture Institute and Real Earth Design. As it turns out we continue exploring the ordering framework I introduced in Episode 24. Here’s the framework diagram, slightly updated thanks to a suggestion from Bill Reed. Or download as pdf here. Oh yeah I also mention this recent recreate of Making Permaculture Stronger’s purpose that Joel Glanzberg helped me with and that uses the pattern I explored with Bill Reed here: MPS inspires creative exploration and dialogue around permaculture design in a way that develops our ability to think and act creatively as and with community to effect the large scale systemic change we need. Oh yeah Jason mention this amazing white paper on the four levels of Regenerative Agriculture by Ethan Roland Soloviev & Gregory Landua. I can’t believe I haven’t read this yet. Do check it out if you’ve not seen it and leave a comment telling me what you make of it. I also mentioned the Permaculture Home Garden by Linda Woodrow.

I’m excited to share here the beginnings of a (Carol Sanford inspired) framework in my second conversation with perma-powerhouse Meg McGowan (the first was here). It is a framework I feel is going to inform much of Making Permaculture Stronger’s evolution moving forward. Here is a preliminary sketch laying it out as a starting point to crash test and improve together (or download as pdf file here). Huge thanks to Meg for taking the time to help me share and start developing it. Oh yes in this episode I also share my brand new project Designing for Life that will be developing in conversation with Making Permaculture Stronger moving forward. Exciting times my friends, exciting times! Visit Meg’s blog here, the interview on the other podcast she mentioned here (episode three), her pyramid of wisdom here (note: compare with this). You can also go listen to the mentioned chats with Carol Sanford and Joel Glanzberg and Bill Reed by clicking on their names (where you’ll find further links to their sites and work). Finally, if you would consider supporting Making Permaculture Stronger financially, then visit our support page and mega-thanks in advance for what you are making possible in terms of supporting and fast-tracking the evolution of permaculture’s wildly exciting potential in the world.

Hey all. In this episode I share my second conversation with Bill Reed from Regenesis Group and the Regenerative Practitioner Seminar (our first chat is here). It is a conversation I highly recommend in which we look in detail at several aspects of how the rubber hits the road in the regenerative development or living systems approach Bill works with. I also get a bunch of things off my chest at the start around bumping this whole conversation up a notch and inviting your input into where and how Making Permaculture Stronger evolves from here. Hope to hear from you (whether via a few bucks via our patreon page and/or your reflections and suggestions in the comments below or through the contact page). I have to say all this focus on the likes of Bill and Joel Glanzberg and Carol Sanford is starting to rub off on me. I have noticed that the language I use is on the move, the thoughts I think are on the move, and even my entire understanding of what the heck Making Permaculture Stronger is and could be about are on the move! Heed this warning my friends: these people are dangerous radicals who consciously mess with minds. As Bill says, they see what they do as a mental technology that is intended to frustrate and destabilise you out of your automatic patterns. Bill mentions this article by Jonah Lehrer in the New Yorker, I mention possibility management, and you can find out more about Regenesis Group here and Carol Sanford here. Example Purpose Statements including Function, Being, and Will As promised, here are the function, being, and will based purpose statements Bill shared: The Yestermorrow design / build school’s purpose is to learn together through shared inquiry and hand-on experience the ways of making human habitat… (function) …in a way that expands our understanding of who we are and how to live in beneficial interrelationship with the earth and each other… (being) …so that we all can thrive in a world with limited resources and unlimited potential (will) and I’m going to take raw ingredients and transform them into a meal for my family… (function) …in a way that we sit down with our children and share our love for each other, or at least our daily events around the table… (being) …so that our children have the psychological wellbeing and nourishment to grow into responsible adults (will) As a recap the function aspect is about what are we doing and transforming? The being aspect is how do we want to be and what do we need to become to do this? Or as Joel Glanzberg has put it to me, what are the capacities to Be you are aiming to develop during this task? The will aspect is what is the larger field we wish to shift or positively impact? As Bill put it this is like asking what is the purpose of the purpose? Keep in mind also, if you can handle it at this stage (I barely can!) that Bill talked about paying attention to the so called three lines of work at function, then again at being, then again at will. The three lines of work are the immediate whole you are working with (might be you, or your school garden), the proximate whole (might be your team, or the school community) and the greater whole that you envisage being able to positively impact through your work (might be the farm, or the community the school is nested within). Here’s a preliminary attempt I made at an upgraded purpose statement for Making Permaculture Stronger:79 Making Permaculture Stronger exists to hold a unique space for intelligent, collegial, and rigorous inquiry and dialogue into the subject of permaculture design process… (function) …in a way that respectfully honors permaculture’s incredible depth and value and openly explores ways its potential might be more fully and rapidly developed… (being) …so that it continues to thrive, grow and evolve in its ability to contribute positively to humanity and the earth (will) After some reflections on this from Joel Glanzberg (thanks Joel!), I tried: Making Permaculture Stronger holds space for intelligent, respectful, collaborative exploration and dialogue into permaculture as a socio-ecological design science… (function) …in a way that is alive, authentic, inclusive and yet gently disruptive… (being) …so that it continues to thrive, grow and evolve in its ability to contribute positively to humanity and the earth (will) Running this past Joel he came back with what I consider an excellent example of cutting to the chase. This fully resonates with my understanding of why MPS exists, and it is so much more clear, concrete and direct (how much punchier is the ending! YES!): MPS inspires creative exploration and dialogue around permaculture design process… (function) …in a way that develops our ability to think and act creatively as a community… (being) …to enable permaculture practitioners to effect the large scale systemic change we need (will) Here is another exampl

Jascha Rohr, Oldenberg, Germany, July 19, 2019 In this episode (recorded July 19) Jascha Rohr returns to catch us up on his recent, current and upcoming adventures in taking healthy generative process and applying it to cocreating new modes of global governance! Check out the Cocreation Foundation here, our last chat here, and Jascha and Sonia’s amazing article on their field process model here. You can sign up to the Cocreation Foundation’s e-newsletter here and check out their youtube channel here. In this clip Jascha fleshes out something we discussed during our chat: https://youtu.be/lAzsc3S7Am8 Jascha also shared a white paper for the Cocreation Foundation’s Global Resonance Project you can download as a pdf and read here or by clicking the image below. Here is a link to the book by Hanzi Freinacht’s book The Listening Society that Jasha mentioned. Oh yes, I make mention in the chat of a few complementary approaches that have been rocking my world lately, namely the work of Carol Sanford (who I interviewed here), Regenesis group (which includes Joel Glanzberg and Bill Reed) along with Possibility Management (created by Clinton Callahan who I interviewed here). Enjoy and catch up with you in episode 22.

Photo by Peter Casamento On June 28th, 2019, I recorded this chat with my friend Bill Reed from Regenesis Group. A close colleague of my last two guests Carol Sanford and Joel Glanzberg, Bill is an internationally recognised practitioner, lecturer, and leading authority in sustainability and regenerative planning, design and implementation. You can see a short bio for Bill here (or listen to me read it out in the intro). Thanks to Bill for passing on the below resources and I will record a second chat with him soon to continue tracking down the intriguing and, well, kinda deep body of work he, Carol and Joel all represent. Articles Click to download as pdf these articles either by or about Bill’s work: Regenerative Development and Design – Working with the Whole Designing from Place – A Regenerative Framework and Methodology Sustainability to Regeneration The Nature of Positive Three Case Studies USGBCMagazine_03-2018 Videos Knock yourself out! https://vimeo.com/album/4650028 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFzEI1rZG_U https://vimeo.com/224956617 https://vimeo.com/120837455 https://soundcloud.com/akasa-daka/bill-and-joel-on-the-birth-of-the-regenesis-group/s-sQ3R0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCFoKbM9ikY Education Find out more about The Regenerative Practitioner training here.

Joel Glanzberg – the sequel I was fully stoked to have this second chat with Joel Glanzberg where we continue exploring his journey with living systems thinking and working within a regenerative paradigm (after first talking in episode twelve). Same topic yet very different energy as the previous episode with Joel’s long-term colleague Carol Sanford. As we discuss Joel is heading to Melbourne in July 2019, where in addition to running some Regenerative Practitioner training he’ll be giving a free talk July 17 and a one-day workshop on Regenerating Place July 27 – both in Brunswick, Melbourne. He’ll also be tagging along with me to some of my current projects so I look forward to reporting back on those adventures and conversations in due course :-). Check out Regenisis Group here, the Regenerative Practitioner training here, and Joel’s personal site Pattern Mind here. Here is the full text from Joel’s open letter to the permaculture movement (please share any thoughts you have about this or the episode in a comment – I always so appreciate hearing how this stuff is landing out there): First of all, I want to thank you, not only for your good efforts, time, and energy but for your caring…your caring not only for this living earth but for the people and the beauty of life. Thank you. Many of you may know of my work from the example of Flowering Tree in Toby Hemenway’s excellent book Gaia’s Garden and the video 30 Years of Greening the Desert, others from my regenerative community development work with Regenesis. In any case I know that you share my concerns for the degrading condition of the ecological and human communities of our biosphere and I am writing to you to ask for your help. We are at a crisis point, a crossroads and if we are to turn the corner we need to use everything at our disposal to its greatest effect. My concern is that we are not using the very powerful perspective of permaculture to its greatest potential and that we need to up our game. We know that the living world is calling for this from us. I often feel that permaculture design is like a fine Japanese chisel that is mostly used like a garden trowel, for transplanting seedlings. It can of course be used for this purpose, but is certainly not its highest use. Permaculture Design has often been compared to a martial art such as Aikido because at its heart it is about observing the forces at play to find the “least change for the greatest effect”; a small move that changes entire systems. This is how nature works and is precisely the sort of shortcut we desperately need. The lowest level of any martial art is learning to take a hit well. Yet this is where so much of our energy seems to be directed: setting ourselves and our communities up to be resilient in the face of the impacts of climate change and the breakdown of current food, water, energy, and financial systems. The next level is to avoid the blow, either through dodging, blocking or redirecting it. Much of the carbon farming and other efforts directed toward pulling carbon out of the atmosphere and developing non-carbon sources of energy fall into this category. At their highest expression practitioners track patterns to their source, shifting them before they take form, redirecting them in regenerative directions. This is what is behind principles like “obtain a yield” or “the problem is the solution” and the reason for protracted and thoughtful observation. We learn to read energies and to find the acupuncture-like inoculation or disturbance that changes the manifestation by changing the underlying pattern. Problems are turned into solutions and provide us with yields if we can stop trying to stop or block them. This is the pattern of Regeneration. Every permaculture technique is a small disturbance that shifts the underlying pattern and hence the system. Water-harvesting structures, rotational grazing, chicken tractors, mulching, spreading seed-balls, setting cool ground fires in rank meadows or forests, transforming spoiling milk into creamy cheese, revolving loan funds, libraries, and even the design course itself all follow this pattern. The point is to disturb brittle senescent systems to allow the emergence of the next level of evolution, even if the system is our preconceptions and habits of thought. This is at the heart of self-organizing systems and the key to effective change efforts. In a changing world it does no good to teach a man to fish. What happens when currents or climate or communities change? It is essential to teach how to think about fishing, whatever can be fished with whatever is at hand. This is why it is called permaculture DESIGN. In its highest form permaculture is not about designing anything. It is a pattern-based approach to designing systemic change efforts. This is the point of the PDC as well as all that time spent in the forest or garden. It is to learn how living systems work a

The creation of this episode was an incredible experience. Carol is shockingly sharp, disruptive beyond belief, and an absolute thrill to be in a conversation with. This episode is dripping with rich insights into regenerative and living systems thinking and how we can apply it to permaculture. I know you’re going to love it. Here’s the conversation as a video: https://youtu.be/ENzPrjNrZV8 Here is Carol’s personal website. Here is an article Carol wrote about potential that has informed the future direction of Making Permaculture Stronger. Here is a link to a page with info about Carol’s books. Her latest book is called The Regenerative Human and will be released March 2020. She asked me to mention that she is still looking for people to be involved in the action-learning project she discussed in our chat. See the details of being involved in this here. Here’s is Carol’s podcast Business Second Opinion. This episode goes through Seven Principles of Regeneration and is is well worth a listen. Here are the Deep Pacific online workshops. Carol asked me to “Let your listeners know they are welcome. All recorded. No beginning or end. You begin when you Step on the Mat, like I learned in Aikido, and practice with all levels of experience.” I (Dan) am signing up so maybe I’ll see you there. Here is Regenesis Group that was mentioned. For the interest of folk in the vicinity of Victoria, Australia, Regenesis member Joel Glanzberg will be running a one-day workshop on Regenerative Design in Melbourne July 2019. Was this post useful? Become a Patron to support the creation of more pieces like this and to access support in applying living systems thinking and much else to grow your permaculture design capacities.

It is my great honour to share this opening conversation with Jason Gerhardt who directs both the Permaculture Institute and Regenerative Design company Real Earth Design. Jason recently contributed this guest post to Making Permaculture Stronger, this post shared a snippet from our conversation in the comments of the current inquiry and this one included a diagram sharing the history of Jason’s permaculture design process signature. In the closing comments to this episode I mention an experiment I’m currently conducting where I want to find out if the universe in general, and perhaps even you in particular, feel moved to give this project a tiny drip of financial support to unleash unimaginably exciting new levels of blog, podcast, video and book action. Only if you’d like, you can read more about this here.

Darren J. Doherty in a misty paddock with some cows In this episode you get to be a fly on the wall during a farm consultancy conducted by renowned farm planner and Regrarian Darren J. Doherty. I’m sure I don’t need to spell out the resonance between Darren’s comments about why he no longer does master plans and the current Making Permaculture Stronger inquiry (where I refer to master planning as fabricating). Thanks to Darren for his support on jobs like this as well as his kind permission to share his words here.

So this episode is a talk I gave on a beautiful farm called Mossy Willow Farm last weekend. The event and the talk were organised by Dumbo Feather and I thank them so much for the opportunity – I had myself a lovely time and the talk led to some awesome conversations afterward. During the talk I paraphrase this quote from Peter Senge: It’s common to say that trees come from seeds. But how can a tiny seed create a huge tree? Seeds do not contain the resources need to grow a tree. These must come from the medium or environment within which the tree grows. But the seed does provide something that is crucial : a place where the whole of the tree starts to form. As resources such as water and nutrients are drawn in, the seed organizes the process that generates growth. In a sense, the seed is a gateway through which the future possibility of the living tree emerges. Peter Senge, C. Scharmer (2011). “Presence: Exploring Profound Change in People, Organizations and Society”, p.10, Nicholas Brealey Publishing

Dan Palmer, Anne-Chloé Destremau, and Clinton Callahan at an Expand the Box Training in Wellington, NZ, February 2019 This conversation dives into the synergies between Permaculture and something called Possibility Management. It was my honour to be able to explore these synergies directly with Clinton Callahan. Clinton is the originator of Possibility Management, which has now been around about as long as permaculture. For 40 years possibility management has been an evolving portal into radical responsibility, initiated adulthood, whole-person space and feeling navigation, consciously co-creating fresh possibilities out of nothing, and so much else.82 It exists as a system of piercingly clear distinctions discovered (and hence there to be noticed) inside lived experience. In trainings, books and so forth people are supported to discover and play with the power and possibility explosions resulting from experiencing these distinctions for themselves. https://youtu.be/HzdYM0l_T3w This episode as a video… For me, this episode has a kind of magic to it. As I explain in the episode, discovering and experimenting with Possibility Management has been a significant development in my life, and something I am deeply grateful for. To think it all started in May 2018 when I spotted a random book lying on David Holmgren and Su Dennet’s coffee table! Where this all started… I hope you enjoy this opening dialogue, and here are some online places you can learn more about Clinton’s work: Possibility Management Inner Permaculture Clinton’s personal website Here are some links to upcoming Possibility Management Expand the Box trainings in this part of the world: Possibility Management in Australia Possibility Management in New Zealand As I say during the episode, if anyone out there has or finds themselves messing about in the places where possibility management and permaculture overlap, please get in touch immediately! I end with my thanks once again to Ben Mallinson for creating the new intro and outro music – what do you think? Returning Clinton’s book to David March 13, 2019, ten months after I nicked off with it… Endnote

Meg McGowan In this episode I inquire into Australian permaculturalist Meg McGowan’s design process. It is a rich chat in which Meg shares many brilliant insights after working as a permaculture design process facilitator / coach for many years. Meg out there taking it to the people… I met Meg at the 14th Australiasian Permaculture Convergence in April 2018 and was struck by her passion and clarity. While I didn’t manage to get a selfie with Meg at the event this character did… David Holmgren and Meg McGowan Meg’s (active!) blog is here, her and her partner’s Permacoaching facebook page is here, and among so many other things she happens to be a permaculture design cartoonist! Check these out and there are a bunch more here. One Permaculture Design Process Planet Permaculture HUGE gratitude to the wonderful Ben Mallinson for creating the new intro and outro music – a massive improvement (no offence to my mate Nath who created the old one on his phone in about three minutes). Ben has been volunteering his time to help out with several of my projects as we explore ways of getting him involved in my professional consultancy work – and I have very much appreciated his assistance. Now I should confess that Meg and I recorded this chat way back in September 2018. It took this long to get the thing edited and released. I guess that’s a good sign in that this project is a hobby and when push comes to shove, and non-hobby parts of life call, it waits a while :-). Still, I sense that things will be warming up from here and I envisage releasing at least one podcast episode per month for a while (and the next one will come out in about two weeks). Thanks again Meg and I’m delighted to have you as a friend and colleague and look forward to our next yarn :-). Let’s wrap up with Meg’s take on a condensed set of permaculture principles:

In this episode I speak with Morag Gamble from Our Permaculture Life, the Permaculture Education Institute, and her very active youtube channel. I’m still getting to know Morag after meeting her recently at the fourteenth Australasian Permaculture Convergence. Morag attended sessions I lead on both Making Permaculture Stronger and Living Design Process and afterward we had the best conversation about it all. But I didn’t realise how on the same page we were, and how much longer Morag had been on that page, and just how much I have to learn from her about it, until we recorded this chat. Enjoy, and huge gratitude to Morag for taking the time, and being who she is, and doing all the incredible stuff she’s doing toward lifting up and growing and sharing what is great about permaculture. Here are the people, books, links etc Morag refers to in this episode. Fritjof Capra The Reenchantment of the World by Morris Berman Victor Papenek Helena Norberg-Hodge Vandana Shiva Christopher Day (Author of Places of the Soul) Schumacher College Patrick Whitefield Jan Gehl Nick Rose Sustain book Developing Citizen Designers (book) Our Permaculture Life Oh yes, and here’s a happy snap of Morag and I taken just last week at Food Connect in Brisbane: …and I finish with a lovely youtube masterclass where Morag shares five steps to getting started with permaculture design:

In this episode I speak with permaculture elder Joel Glanzberg from Pattern Mind, Regenesis Group and the Tracking Project. Early in the conversation, Joel refers to his 30 Years Greening the Desert project which you can learn about in this clip: We also refer to Joel’s Open Letter and Plea to the Permaculture Movement. Here is a more recent article in which Joel writes beautifully about the necessary transformation toward life at a world-view level. Here’s a poignant excerpt: Holding my baby son one night as he slept, I thought about how I would make his body. Having built things all my life, this seemed simple. I would begin by framing him up, joining his bones together using his muscles, tendons and ligaments. Then I’d run his arteries and veins, his nervous system, install all of his organs, sheath him in skin, fill him with blood, a bit of food and water and start him up, maybe with a spark from jumper cables. Of course he was made nothing like this, but this Frankensteinian thought experiment revealed my own mind’s mechanicalness and the difference between how we think about and make things and how the living world creates. Everything we make is conceived and constructed before it begins to carry out the processes for which it was designed. Our cars, homes, businesses, schools, programs are all structured before they run. Like my son’s body—all of our bodies for that matter—all living structures are built by doing what they have been created to do. His body was made by metabolizing nutrients, water and oxygen and moving around, just as it is today. The river was not dug and then filled with water. The river running made the river. The branching scaffold of the tree was not built before it carried water and nutrients up into the sky and sugars back down into the roots. The tree built its body by adding layer after layer of carbon taken from the sky through photosynthesizing, from the moment it put out leaves into the air and roots into the earth. Finally, and with particular relevance to some of the places Making Permaculture Stronger will soon be heading as a project, I recommend watching this too, where Joel speaks alongside several of his colleagues at Regenesis Group:

This episode is a recording of a session during a four-day workshop that was run last week by David Holmgren from Holmgren Design and Dan Palmer from Making Permaculture Stronger. The workshop was entitled Advanced Permaculture Planning and Design Process, and this episode shares the story of Dan’s personal journey with permaculture design process, to which David responds with something of his own story. Here is a photo of Dan sharing his story… …and David responding… Huge thanks to Keri Chiveralls for coming and for taking and sharing all three photos, Bec Lowe and Brenna Quinlan for supporting David and Dan during the course (and for Brenna’s amazing illustrations), Su Dennet for feeding everyone, and the other participants for coming along and making it all possible and for integrating their beautiful energies into the mix of this emerging conversation whose time has come around (once again): Andrew, Anitra, Annaliese, Anne, Ben, Daryl, Delldint, Delvin, Franky, Gavin, Jazmyn, Jenny, Ken, Kim, Ko, Linnet, Lukas, Michae,l Michelle, Pierre, Sean, Stacey, Ugo, Venetia, Wayne & Willow Brenna Quinlan’s brilliant pictorial summary of Dan’s talk (which was then condensed into this summary of the whole day): The course group: Finally, for anyone who might be interested, there is a detailed six-post report of the 2017 version of this workshop here, and future iterations of this course will be listed here.

In this episode Dan Palmer from Making Permaculture Stronger speaks with Jascha Rohr from the Institute for Participatory Design which is based in Oldenburg, Germany. With his partner Sonja Hörster, Jascha has created a fascinating and powerful way of framing design process they call the Field Process Model. The Field Process Model brings together inspiration from Bill Mollison’s core model and Christopher Alexander’s generative process against the philosophical backdrop of field theory (rather than the systems thinking backdrop permaculture usually stems from). Here it is sketched at a high level in two dimensions (get your head around this first, where reading this article is highly recommended)… …here in more detail in three dimensions (or of course four if you include the movement or dance through time): Here are field process model originators Jascha and Sonja during the recording, which happened on February 20, 2018. The red squiggle indicates a certain four-volume set of books, the second volume of which just happened to also be sitting just behind Dan…

In this episode Dan from Making Permaculture Stronger enjoys a conversation with permaculture elder Robyn Francis from Djanbung Gardens. Amongst other things Robyn shares on: Her recent return to India (having in 1987 co-taught India’s first permaculture design certificate or PDC course alongside Bill Mollison) What she was up to before hearing about permaculture When and how she got involved in permaculture Her own impressions of Bill Mollison’s character having worked alongside him How she got started in permaculture design Her approach to permaculture design process including the roles of Visioning / strategic planning Restraint overlays Her work with communities including Jarlanbah Community Her view on the state of the global permaculture movement A taste of all the amazing projects she is currently involved in, locally, bio-regionally, and abroad (including PDCs in China) A short video about IPC India 2017 featuring Robyn

Dave during the chat with Dan In this episode Dan Palmer from Making Permaculture Stronger enjoys another high-energy, cut to the chase dialogue with Dave Jacke from Edible Forest Gardens. The first episode/instalment can be found here. This second instalment of an energy-rich conversation that is far from done includes: Dan sharing his recent feeling that in framing permaculture design processes using linear-sequence-implying flow charts a (kind of big) mistake is being made Dave putting flow charts and other things in a successional (but non-linear!) framing where they have their role in the learning journey Dave sharing his cutting edge, hot-off-the-press, so far unwritten about approach to framing design processes as ecosystems The relation between what he calls the four ecosystem ps: properties principles patterns processes Why Dave avoids using the name permaculture Much, much else! Dave Jacke’s work has been referenced many times in previous posts, and was the sole focus of this one and this one. Oh yes, the Ludwig Wittgenstein quote Dan mentions was: One thinks that one is tracing the outline of the thing’s nature over and over again, and one is merely tracing around the frame through which we look at (Philosophical Investigations) and the quote Dave shared was: Ecological communities are not as tightly linked as organisms, but neither are they simply collections of individuals. Rather, the community is a unique form of biological system in which the individuality of the parts (i.e., species and individuals) acts paradoxically to bind the system together. —DAVID PERRY, Forest Ecosystems Finally, you can organise yourself a copy of David Holmgren’s amazing new book Retrosuburbia (which Dan quotes from at the start) right here. We really hope you enjoy the episode, and please do leave a comment sharing any feedback or reflections below… Dan during the chat with Dave

In this episode Dan Palmer from Making Permaculture Stronger enjoys a rich conversation with his friend and permaculture colleague Hannah Moloney from Good Life Permaculture in Hobart. Hannah and Dan explore: How Hannah got into all this Hannah’s journey working as a professional permaculture designer The permaculture design process Hannah uses The tension between providing a service people are willing to pay for and honouring sound process at the same time Much more Here are some of Hannah’s design diagrams (more here): Her and Anton and their daughter Frida’s beeuitiful pink home on a hill (more here): and Dan, Hannah, Anton (and young Frida) in 2015… and 2016…

In this episode Dan Palmer from Making Permaculture Stronger enjoys a high-energy, cut to the chase dialogue with Dave Jacke from Edible Forest Gardens. Dave and Dan explore: Dave’s 38+ year journey with design process and permaculture including: his first design project at Simon’s Rock College his initial contact with permaculture and then Bill Mollison his initial contact with the writings of Christopher Alexander (especially Alexander’s 1964 book Notes on the Synthesis of Form) his experience studying at the Conway School of Landscape Design his relationship to permaculture his ecological design process Permaculture’s design process enigma (has a lot to say about ecological design but not a lot to say about ecological design process) The relation between the designer, the designing, and the designed Problems with the expert/hero approach to design The relation between rationality and feeling/emotion inside ecological design process So much else… Dave Jacke’s work has been referenced many times in previous posts, and was the sole focus of this one. We really hope you enjoy the episode, which is feeling like beginning of a longer conversation, and please do leave a comment sharing any feedback or reflections below… Dave doing site analysis at Yandoit Farm, Victoria, Australia, 2016

In this episode Dan Palmer from Making Permaculture Stronger enjoys a wide-ranging conversation with Darren J. Doherty from Regrarians.org. Darren and Dan explore: Darren’s 25-year journey with design process including: how he got started key influences along the way key realisations along the way The Regrarians Works Pattern and the Regrarians Platform The current state and trajectory of permaculture including why good people so often seem to leave The relationship of Darren and the Regrarians approach to permaculture much else, including the new 10 week REX® Online Farm Planning Program (that Dan is looking forward to participating in as a student) We really hope you enjoy the episode, and please do leave a comment sharing any feedback or reflections below… Dan and Darren recording this episode last week in Bendigo, Australia Oh yes, one more thing – during the closing comments at the episode’s end, Dan refers to this video clip: https://vimeo.com/128967954

In this episode Dan Palmer from Making Permaculture Stronger enjoys a rich dialogue with Ben Falk from Whole Systems Design. Dan and Ben explore issues and themes around: heathy living processes of design and creation working with clients the relation of necessity to beauty part of what it might mean to enjoy an authentic, healthy, connected life.

In this track Dan chats with Alex Bayley about the agile software development movement and permaculture design process. Alex has a blog series exploring these topics here.

On June 22nd, 2017, Dan Palmer recorded this lovely chat with Bridget O’Brien about her work on permaculture design process as part of her permaculture board game she’s called “Adapt” (check it out here).

In this podcast Dan Palmer from Making Permaculture Stronger chats with Rosemary Morrow about permaculture design process.