It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Liverpool wrapped up their 20th English league title at the weekend, so today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the fascinating career of manager Arne Slot who has won the Premier League at his first attempt at Anfield. Beginning with his unique upbringing in a football-centric Dutch Bible Belt town, we explore how watching his father coach from a young age shaped Slot's tactical mind, travel through his early playing days, his reputation as a tactician, and his impressive managerial stints that led him to win the Eredivisie with Feyenoord and now the Premier League with Liverpool. On Friday, Jonathan and Rob will assess where Slot's Liverpool title winners sit in Liverpool's glorious history.00:00 Introduction: A Coach's Son00:40 Early Life and Background of Arne Slot01:26 The Dutch Football Culture03:01 Influence of Johan Cruyff and Total Football05:02 Arne Slot's Youth and Early Football Education07:11 Professional Career Beginnings13:40 Tactical Innovations and Coaching Philosophy21:58 The Early Coaching Journey of Arne Slot23:14 Challenges and Successes at Cambuur25:56 Influence of Pep Guardiola and Data Analytics29:10 Rise at AZ Alkmaar34:43 Success at Feyenoord and Coaching Style43:45 Legacy and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.It's time for Part Two of Pep vs Jose! As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football.Guardiola vs Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil?Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Jose's Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era.Having set the scene in part one, Rob and Jonathan relive the incredible semi-final battles, where Mourinho would ultimately dethrone Guardiola in an incredible second-leg at the Nou Camp - which saw a controversial sending off, late drama and an iconic pitch celebration.If you enjoyed the podcast please subscribe and rate.00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene00:45 The Clash of Philosophies: Mourinho vs. Guardiola01:32 The Tactical Battle Begins04:32 The Volcano Eruption and Its Impact10:24 First Leg Highlights and Analysis13:18 Ibrahimović's Conflict and Mourinho's Mind Games18:06 The Build-Up to the Second Leg25:23 The Myth of the Decision25:41 The Controversial Red Card26:54 Conspiracy Theories and Psychological Influence27:52 The Clash of Good vs. Evil28:34 Tactical Fouling and Pep's Cynical Side29:59 Marina's Critique of Barcelona's Tactics31:37 Inter's Defensive Masterclass34:13 The Struggle Against Possession Football36:38 The Final Moments and Disallowed Goal40:03 Marino's Triumphant Celebration43:16 The Aftermath and Legacy46:43 The Tactical Evolution in Football48:58 The Importance of Non-Possession Football50:28 Conclusion and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was.As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football.Pep Guardiola vs. José Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil?Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Mourinho’s Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era.In Part One, Rob and Jonathan set the scene: how Mourinho’s Inter came to challenge the most dominant team in the world, the tactics he used, the battles he fought in Italy, and how both sides arrived at this collision point chasing domestic and European glory.Part Two drops Friday, where Rob and Jonathan break down the epic semi-final itself.00:00 Barcelona's Football Perfection01:48 Mourinho vs. Guardiola: A Rivalry Begins02:47 The Dark Side of Mourinho03:25 Star Wars Analogies and Football Tactics06:53 Mourinho's Seven-Point Plan07:45 Mourinho's Philosophy and Evolution08:43 Mourinho's Journey to Inter Milan09:58 Cultural Expectations and Pragmatic Football12:23 Mourinho's Press Conference Antics13:44 Mourinho's Linguistic Brilliance14:49 Mourinho's Training Philosophy20:04 Key Matches and Tactical Shifts21:16 Mourinho's First Season at Inter22:27 Transfer Drama: Stars on the Move23:51 Barcelona's Dominance and Challenges26:40 Inter's Journey to the Semifinals28:57 Mourinho's Tactical Mastery32:29 Controversies and Confrontations40:24 The Road to the Semifinals43:57 Setting the Stage for the Epic Semifinal Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's time for part two of our look at the unexpected role a horse would play in the controversial takeover of Manchester United by the Glazer family. The episode covers the period of the Glazer acquisition, the impact of their ownership, and the financial manoeuvres that transformed the club. From Alex Ferguson's complicated relationship with the Glazers to the missed opportunities and recruitment challenges that followed, this episode gives an in-depth look at how Manchester United's fate was sealed - and the horse that might have started it all!00:00 The Decline of Manchester United: A 20-Year Journey00:20 Introduction to the Football History Podcast00:48 The Gibraltar Incident and Its Fallout01:26 The Glazers' Takeover: A Turning Point02:24 The Financial Strategy of the Glazers02:54 The Early Signs of Trouble03:58 The Glazers' Background and Business Practices04:48 The Impact of Global Capital on Football06:24 The Glazers' Vision and Strategy08:43 The Financial Mechanics of the Takeover10:41 The Role of Debt in Modern Football11:54 The Glazers' Financial Maneuvering14:32 The Aftermath and Long-Term Consequences16:15 The Glazers' Legacy and Future Implications18:26 The Financial Crisis and Its Impact on Football20:57 The Leveraged Buyout Explained22:52 The Final Stages of the Takeover30:47 The Glazer Takeover and Initial Success31:17 Fan Protests and Opposition34:52 Financial Strain and Missed Opportunities37:32 The Role of Ed Woodward43:18 Transfer Market Failures46:15 Managerial Missteps53:37 The Glazers' Disconnect and Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In today's episode, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by journalist David Walsh to explore how the modern fortunes of Manchester United are intertwined with one of the greatest racehorses in history.This is the extraordinary story of Rock of Gibraltar, the famed racehorse part-owned by Sir Alex Ferguson - and how his connections and relationships with John Magnier, and JP McManus would ultimately impact the Glazers' takeover of Manchester United. David Walsh shares insider details from his investigative work on the story, making this one of the most fascinating sports sagas of recent times. Tune in on Friday for part two, and the implications of the Glazers' takeover - and Manchester United's decline.00:00 The Tale of the Lost Kingdom00:25 Introduction to the Podcast and Special Guest00:35 The Story of Rock of Gibraltar01:25 David Walsh's Insights02:28 The Connection Between Sir Alex Ferguson and John Magner07:36 The Rise of Rock of Gibraltar17:21 The Dispute Over Ownership19:26 The Financial Implications29:04 Ownership Dispute and Legal Battle29:52 High Court Drama and Stakeholder Tensions30:50 Public Fallout and Media Frenzy34:02 Settlement and Aftermath38:39 The Glazers' Takeover41:35 Reflecting on Missed Opportunities49:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was for part two of our interview with Brendan Batson, a trailblazer in English football.Brendon tells Jonathan and Rob about his impactful time at West Bromwich Albion as part of the iconic 'Three Degrees' with Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham. We discuss his teammates, the tragic losses and his work to combat racism. Brendon also gives us an insight into the personal impact of his former manager Ron Atkinson's notorious comments on live television.00:00 Introduction and Overview01:07 Brendan Batson's Early Career and Challenges03:00 The China Tour Experience06:20 The Three Degrees Phenomenon12:32 Impact and Legacy of Black Players18:37 Knee Injury and Career Transition20:10 Coaching Courses and Philosophies24:24 The Evolution of a Coaching Philosophy24:42 The One-Size-Fits-All Approach25:50 Player Welfare and Career Transitions27:59 Tragic Losses and Their Impact28:38 The Legacy of Laurie Cunningham32:33 Racism in Football: A Personal Betrayal38:20 The Complexity of Racism in Football41:21 The Fight Against Racism: Past and Present46:17 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This week Jonathan and Rob welcome special guest Brendan Batson, a former Arsenal, Cambridge, and West Brom player - who made a significant impact on British social and footballing history.Part one focuses on Batson's early life in Grenada and Trinidad, his challenges adapting to the British climate in the 1960s, and becoming Arsenal's first black player. Join us for part two on Friday where Brendan recalls his time at West Brom - and the birth of the famous 'Three Degrees'.00:00 Introduction and Special Guest Announcement01:21 Brendan Batson's Early Life and Migration to England03:18 Adapting to Life in England and Discovering Football06:34 Challenges and Racism in Early Years11:48 The Windrush Generation and Social Context14:48 Racism in Football and the National Front19:13 Conclusion of Part One20:00 Scouted by Arsenal: The Beginning of a Football Journey21:23 Challenges and Triumphs: Early Arsenal Days22:38 Facing Racism: The Harsh Realities of the 60s and 70s25:06 Breaking Barriers: Becoming Arsenal's First Black Player27:44 Struggles with Racism on the Field31:36 Guidance and Growth: Learning to Cope34:32 Career Progression: From Arsenal to Cambridge and Beyond36:33 Ron Atkinson's Influence: A Turning Point37:41 Conclusion: Reflecting on a Pioneering Career Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, and part two of our look at Cameroon’s extraordinary journey at the 1990 World Cup.With their stunning opening victory against defending champions Argentina and making history as the first African team to reach the quarter-finals, Cameroon’s story is one of resilience, brilliance, and pure football magic.Facing England in a gripping quarter-final showdown against stars like Paul Gascoigne and Gary Lineker, the Indomitable Lions captivated the world in one of the World Cup’s greatest underdog stories.If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode.00:00 Introduction and Initial Setup00:19 Chaos and Preparation for the World Cup01:25 Cameroon's Opening Game Against Argentina02:45 Diego Maradona's Challenges04:56 Cameroon's Tactical Adjustments07:35 FIFA's New Rules and Refereeing Challenges11:35 Cameroon's Historic Victory Over Argentina15:04 Advancing Through the Group Stage20:41 Facing Colombia in the Knockout Stage23:39 Cliffhanger: Preparing to Face England24:32 England's Quarter-Final Prospects25:25 Scouting Cameroon: Underestimations and Realities27:32 Tunnel Tensions and Early Game Dynamics29:37 Cameroon's Tactical Surprises33:46 England's Tactical Adjustments40:54 Cameroon's Legacy and African Football Challenges50:07 Concluding Thoughts on Cameroon 1990 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson look back at one of the most iconic footballing stories of all time: Cameroon’s 1990 World Cup.  Jonathan and Rob look at the chaotic preparations behind Cameroon's campaign, discussing last-minute squad upheaval, internal conflicts between teammates, and the unexpected recall of a man who would become a legend: Roger Milla. In the build up to the tournament's opening game against defending champions Argentina, there were turbulent training camps, political interferences, and a complete lack of confidence in the squad. That would all change in the summer to come...  Join us on Friday for Part Two. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. 00:00 Pre-Game Nerves and Disorganization01:02 Introduction to the 1990 Cameroon Team01:25 Historical Context of African Teams in the World Cup02:26 The Dramatic Campaign of Cameroon 199004:40 The Goalkeeper Dilemma07:25 African Football's Struggles and Triumphs14:37 Colonial Impact on African Football17:44 Cameroon's Chaotic Road to the World Cup24:09 African Players in European Football24:58 Cameroon's Discontent in the 1990s26:02 The Build-Up to the 1990 World Cup31:43 Roger Milla's Unexpected Return40:07 Goalkeeper Rivalries and Team Dynamics43:33 Pre-Match Chaos and Last-Minute Changes  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.Today Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author James Montague to discuss his new book 'Engulfed' - exploring Saudi Arabia's massive investments in sport.James gives unique insights on the history of Saudi football, the Vision 2030 project, and how Newcastle United's takeover fits into the larger picture. You'll find out how strategic use of 'soft power' has transformed Saudi Arabia's global image through sport.The trio examine the rich football culture in Saudi Arabia, the country's evolving social landscape, and the geopolitics influencing these changes.If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.00:00 Introduction00:17 James Montague's Early Works and Reviews01:28 Re-release and Sequel: Engulfed01:59 Saudi Arabia's Emergence in Sports03:26 Sports Washing and Soft Power06:47 Historical Context and Saudi Investments11:10 Mohammad bin Salman's Rise to Power23:57 The Khashoggi Incident and Its Aftermath30:13 Saudi Arabia's Football Culture31:24 Challenges of Covering Saudi Arabia33:52 Women in Saudi Football35:15 Jimmy Hill's Influence on Saudi Football40:33 David Icke's Saudi Adventure46:10 Vision 2030 and Saudi Football Investments52:26 Neom's Football Ambitions57:34 Conclusion and Book Promotion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.It's the final installment of our three-part series exploring the rise and fall of the American Soccer League. Jonathan and Rob dive into internal conflicts within the ASL, the 1929 Wall Street crash, and how its devastating effects exposed the vulnerabilities of the fledgling league. But all is not lost - with another significant attempt to establish professional soccer in the U.S....If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.00:00 Introduction to the Series and Bela Gutmann's Influence01:13 The Rise of the American Soccer League (ASL)01:51 Innovations and Controversies in American Soccer06:23 Financial Growth and International Tensions08:17 The Playoff System and League Complications10:53 The Struggles of Smaller Franchises15:06 The Breakaway and Formation of the Eastern Soccer League17:31 Chaos and Competition Between Leagues22:24 The Soccer War and Its Impact23:57 The Decline of the American Soccer League25:27 The Wall Street Crash and Its Consequences27:20 The Struggles of Key Figures and Teams29:36 The Final Collapse of the ASL34:25 Analysing the Failure of Soccer in the US38:08 Comparing US and European Sports Models45:36 The Future of Soccer in the US49:17 Conclusion and What's Next Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In today's It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue to explore the fascinating story of soccer in the United States. Highlighting the pivotal role of immigrant communities in the sport's development, the episode also examines key figures like Bela Gutmann and the significant tours by foreign teams that attracted huge crowds.Join us for the conclusion of this three-part series on Tuesday. 00:00 Introduction to Bela Gutmann's New York Era00:51 The Pre-History of American Soccer01:36 Challenges in Establishing Soccer in the U.S.02:26 The First Professional Soccer League04:24 Financial Struggles and League Dynamics07:16 Formation and Early Years of the American Soccer League20:53 Innovations and Comparisons with Other Sports24:19 College Football's Dominance and Soccer's Struggles25:39 The Role of Universities in American Sports26:14 Challenges in Early American Soccer26:53 The Rise of the New York Giants27:44 Fall River Marksmen's Dominance28:25 Economic Struggles and Soccer's Impact29:29 The League's Early Successes and Challenges30:14 Expansion and New Teams31:13 Player Transfers and Immigration Issues33:19 The American Menace and Scottish Football34:49 International Influence and Jewish Tours41:07 The Impact of Jewish Players and Fans44:23 The Maccabees and Tactical Evolution47:49 The League's Growing Popularity and Issues50:32 Concluding Thoughts and Future Outlook Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson dive into the early history of soccer in the United States.They look at efforts to establish professional leagues, the influence of immigrant communities, and the geographic and cultural factors that made it difficult for football to gain a foothold - compared to rival American sports.This episode is the first of a three-part series. Join us on Friday as the story continues! If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.Chapters:00:00 Introduction to American Soccer01:08 Early History of Soccer in the USA02:00 Challenges and Attempts to Establish Soccer02:38 Soccer's Struggle for Popularity06:06 The Role of Universities in American Football17:16 Immigrant Influence on American Soccer17:43 Regional Hotbeds of Soccer24:18 Formation of Early Soccer Leagues27:43 The Rise of Fall River and Early American Football28:31 Economic Challenges and League Suspensions29:18 Comparing Football Cultures: UK vs. US33:11 Baseball's Influence on Early American Soccer38:53 The Birth of the US Football Association41:36 Challenges and Growth of Early US Soccer46:52 Bethlehem Steel and the Industrial Influence51:01 The Challenge Cup and Regional Rivalries52:09 Concluding Thoughts and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.Rob and Jonathan are joined by David Corner - the man whose life was changed forever by the 1985 League Cup Final between Sunderland and Norwich. That match is remembered for a costly mistake that led to Sunderland’s defeat - a moment that saw David singled out, subjected to intense criticism and even physical abuse from his own fans.David shares his story with Jonathan and Rob, reflecting on how that experience shaped his life, the challenges he faced in the aftermath, and how he found the strength to move forward.If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. With Liverpool and Newcastle set to battle for the first major trophy of the English domestic season on Sunday, we’re taking a journey through some of the greatest League Cup finals of all time. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper each share three of their favourite finals - games filled with drama, controversy, and unforgettable moments that have defined the competition. Have we missed any of your favourites? Get in touch with @ItWasPodOn Friday we have a special episode featuring David Corner, reflecting on Sunderland’s heartbreaking defeat in 1985.If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. Mikel Arteta’s transformation of Arsenal, Unai Emery’s tactical mastery, Xabi Alonso’s meteoric rise at Bayer Leverkusen, and Andoni Iraola’s fearless pressing at AFC Bournemouth all highlight a remarkable trend: A new wave of coaches shaping the modern game, many of them from the Basque Country.But why does this small region produce so many elite managers? Is it the coaching philosophy, the deep footballing culture, or something ingrained in the Basque identity?This is the story of how a new generation of Basque coaches are redefining football.If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This week - we discuss the rise of Basque coaching. But we begin not in Bilbao or San Sebastián, but with a Catalan: Pep Guardiola.After revolutionising football with Barcelona, dominating in Germany with Bayern, and redefining the Premier League with Manchester City, Guardiola has become the defining coach of his era. But after a turbulent season at City, questions are emerging: Is this the beginning of the end for his football? Have opponents finally caught up with his ideas? Or does he have another reinvention left?This is the story of how Guardiola reshaped the modern game—and what comes next. Part two, on the Basque coaching revolution, will be released on Friday.If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This is the story of a new dawn - where one national team took full control of their destiny, cementing a legacy that continues to shape football today.Following their World Cup triumph (in our last part), the U.S. Women's side entered a new era of independence and power - and with it came major shifts. Coach Tony DiCicco became a casualty of the team’s growing influence, making way for fresh leadership and a transformed vision. But tensions were surfacing behind the scenes, with a showdown between star player Brandi Chastain and new coach April Heinrichs...If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast..Approaching the end of the millennium, the U.S. women’s national team had already won a World Cup and Olympic gold, but they were still fighting for mainstream recognition. That all changed when they took centre stage at the 1999 Women’s World Cup.With 90,000 fans packing the Rose Bowl and millions watching around the world, the final against China became a defining moment - not just for the U.S. team, but for women’s football as a whole. Brandi Chastain’s iconic penalty, the sold-out stadiums, and the sheer spectacle of the tournament proved that women’s football wasn’t just growing - it had arrived. This is the story of how the 1999 World Cup reshaped the sport forever.If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast..Despite not playing their first professional match until 1985, the U.S. Women won the inaugural World Cup in 1991. But even as champions, they faced inequality—most notably at the 1996 Olympics, where they were only promised pay if they won gold, while the men earned bonuses for any medal. Tennis icon Billie Jean King stepped in to fight for change.This is the story of how the U.S. women’s team fought for more than just trophies.Part two, covering the iconic 1999 Women’s World Cup, is released on Tuesday. And if you missed our intro episode with USA legend Carli Lloyd earlier this week, go back and check it out. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In our new mini-series, we begin the journey of how women’s football in the U.S. rose to global dominance. And who better to start with than Carli Lloyd - one of the game’s greatest competitors and a key figure in that evolution?From the early struggles for recognition to back-to-back World Cup triumphs, Lloyd’s career mirrors the relentless fight for respect and progress in the women’s game. She takes us inside the mindset that made her a two-time World Cup winner, an Olympic gold medallist, and the architect of one of the most iconic performances in women’s football history - her stunning hat-trick in the 2015 World Cup final.Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In this final chapter of our series, we complete the journey that began with Gary Neville reflecting on the legacy of the Busby Babes. We explored who they were before the 1958 Munich Air Disaster, the tragic day itself, and now, we turn to the aftermath: How Manchester United rose again.Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you through the incredible story of resilience and redemption. After recovering from his own life-threatening injuries, Sir Matt Busby rebuilt his beloved club, guiding them from devastation to glory. With the emergence of new stars like George Best and the leadership of Bobby Charlton, United’s revival culminated in their crowning moment in 1968, when they became the first English club to lift the European Cup - just a decade after their darkest day.Thank you for joining us. If you’ve enjoyed the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In last week’s episode, we told the story of the rise of the Busby Babes, their brilliance, and their final match before tragedy struck. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you through the darkest day in Manchester United’s history: 6 February 1958.At Munich-Riem Airport, United’s flight stopped to refuel on its way home from Belgrade. After two failed take-off attempts, the third ended in disaster. The crash claimed 23 lives, including eight of Manchester United’s finest players. Duncan Edwards fought for survival but died 15 days later. Manager Sir Matt Busby was left critically injured - the club’s future uncertain.In this episode, Jonathan and Rob reconstruct the events of that fateful day - and explore the immediate aftermath; the heartbreak, the shock, and how Manchester United Football Club somehow carried on.On Friday, we will have the final part: How Sir Matt Busby’s Manchester United rose again.If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Thank you for listening.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.Following Gary Neville’s tribute to the triumph and tragedy of the Busby Babes on the anniversary week of the Munich Air Disaster, we begin a three-part series on how the tragedy shaped the future of Manchester United.In Part One, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore who the Busby Babes were, how the term came to be, and how Sir Matt Busby built his legendary team. They discuss the club’s pioneering youth system, Bobby Charlton’s journey to becoming a United supporter, and the importance of developing young talent. Among them was Duncan Edwards, regarded as one of England’s greatest footballers at the time, whose life was tragically cut short in 1958.The episode closes with the team’s final match before the fateful Munich Air Disaster.Next week, It Was What It Was presents a special episode focusing on the Munich Air Disaster, its immediate aftermath, and how Matt Busby’s rebuilt side laid the foundation for the Manchester United we know today.If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.This week former Manchester United captain Gary Neville joins us to look back on one of the most momentous and tragic events in football history: The Munich air disaster of 1958.Neville discusses the lasting significance of the tragedy - and how Sir Matt Busby rebuilt the club, leading them to European Cup glory just a decade after its darkest day.Gary shares stories with Jonathan and Rob - including how he was raised to honour the Busby Babes as a young fan and as a player - and how their legacy helped shape the modern Manchester United.Later this week, we’ll bring you the first instalment of our mini-series on the disaster, exploring who the Busby Babes were before that fateful night.If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.Austrian footballer Matthias Sindelar was one of the greats of the game but his mysterious death in 1939 at the age of just 35 became a hugely contested issue in the darkest era of Austrian history. Was he murdered because he objected to the Nazis? Did he chose to end his life unable to countenance living under Hitler? Or was he the victim of a tragic accident? And what role had his girlfriend Camilla Castagnola, found dead alongside him, played?Join Jonathan and Rob in the second and final part as they separate fact from fiction in the life of a lesser known great….If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.Austrian footballer Matthias Sindelar was one of the greats of the game but his mysterious death in 1939 at the age of just 35 became a hugely contested issue in the darkest era of Austrian history. Was he murdered because he objected to the Nazis? Did he chose to end his life unable to countenance living under Hitler? Or was he the victim of a tragic accident? And what role had his girlfriend Camilla Castagnola, found dead alongside him, played?Join Jonathan and Rob as they separate fact from fiction in the life of a lesser known great….Our finale is out on Friday!If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.Jonathan and Rob continue exploring the extraordinary legacy of Bill Nicholson’s push and run game at Spurs and its relationship with Cruyff, Ajax, Barça and Total Football.In Part 4, Nicholson guides Spurs to the first league and cup double of the 20th century and Spurs become the first British club to win a European trophy.Don't forget to go back and listen to the rest of this series. Parts one and two feature Spurs royalty Steve Perryman!If you’re enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.Jonathan and Rob continue their dive into the career of Tottenham's legendary manager and one of the founding fathers of modern football: Bill Nicholson. Don't forget to go back and listen to parts one and two with special guest and Spurs royalty Steve Perryman!If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.It's time for part two of Jonathan and Rob's chat with Spurs legend Steve Perryman about the club's legendary manager and one of the founding fathers of modern football: Bill Nicholson. Hear more from Steve as he tells us backstage stories and insights on Nicholson from the training ground, the dressing room and White Hart Lane. Don't forget to go back and listen to part one first if you missed it. If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.This week, Jonathan and Rob are joined by Steve Perryman, Tottenham Hotspur’s record appearance holder, to talk about legendary Spurs manager Bill Nicholson. From transforming Spurs into serial winners - to hilarious changing room stories - Steve takes us behind the scenes of one of the most successful sides of the 20th century.Join us on Friday for Part Two!If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was - for Part Two of our look back at The FA Cup’s most memorable Third Round upsets! Jonathan and Rob return to tell the stories behind five more iconic moments from football's oldest cup competition - before the pair choose their ultimate Third Round shock. Please go back and listen to Part One if you missed it!If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was - where it's time to talk some of The FA Cup’s most memorable Third Round shocks! The FA Cup is synonymous with dreams and giant-killings, and nothing captures its essence better than the Third Round proper. Jonathan and Rob bring us their favourite ‘cupsets’ and the stories that have cemented them in FA Cup folklore. Don't forget to join us for Part Two on Friday!If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was and Happy New Year! In today’s episode, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into the origins of VAR with author Daisy Christodoulou.Her latest book, I Can’t Stop Talking About VAR, discusses its profound impact on the sport, and whether it was designed to enhance football - or if football is now adapting to fit VAR. The evolution of football has never felt more immediate or impactful.If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

New’s Eve Year 1991. Manchester United are on course to win the title for the first time since 1967. It’s Sir Alex Ferguson’s 50th birthday party, but it's a small, understated affair because United play QPR at Old Trafford the next day. A comfortable home win is expected for United to go top again - but it didn't work out that way... Join one of the stars of that game, Andy Sinton, to discuss what happened next, in perhaps the most famous New Year's Day game in modern English football.If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Christmas Eve, 1914. A cold, crisp, moonlit night in Flanders.British and German soldiers are dug into opposing trenches in a hellish shelled-out landscape, strewn with rotting corpses. But an unfamiliar sound is heard from the German trenches: “Stille Nacht, Heilige Nacht” is being sung to welcome the birth of Christ.The British respond with their own carols, seasonal greetings are exchanged across the trenches and troops tentatively move out into No Man’s Land. Gifts are exchanged, friends are made and then, allegedly, a football match ensued!Is this mythic tale - a staple of primary school history lessons - actually true? Or is it mere legend? Was any football really played? If so, is it perhaps the most significant match of all time? Rob and Jonathan reveal the true story behind what may be football’s finest moment.If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on It Was What It Was, it's the tale of Pickles: The most famous dog in football history.As most football fans know, Pickles saved the day by finding the Jules Rimet trophy - the original World Cup - after it had farcically been stolen from a stamp collection exhibition in the run up to the 1966 World Cup. But the whole story is even more surprising, more tragic and more comedic. And what came next for Pickles and the thief? Jonathan and Rob reveal all.If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on It Was What It Was, Jonathan and Rob introduce us to the team - and the match - that played a huge part in the invention of the European Cup...“Champions of the World!” was the headline given to Wolverhampton Wanderers, when they beat the mighty Hungarian team Honvéd, led by Ferenc Puskas, in 1954. Billy Wright was the star of the show for a game that many saw as reestablishing England as top football nation. But was it just gamesmanship that won the day for this great Wolves side? And how did that grandiose headline annoy the French so much it led to the formation of the European Cup (and consequently the Champions League) a year later? Wolves 3 Honvéd 2 is one of the most significant matches ever; a great night of European football that paved the way for so many historic moments in years to come. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on It Was What It Was, we're looking at one of football's most remarkable underdog stories. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take us back to the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, where Nigeria’s “Dream Team” shocked the world and won men's gold - the first African team to win a senior global football tournament. From Kanu’s heroics, to dramatic comeback victories over Brazil and Argentina, they explore how this historic triumph cemented African football on the global stage - and inspired a new generation of players. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week. It Was What It Was asks: What is it with Portuguese football? With Ruben Amorim arriving at Manchester United, there are now as many Premier League managers from Portugal as from England coaching this season.  Portugal also has the fourth highest-quota of Premier League players (after England, Brazil and France). For a nation of just over 10 million, it consistently punches above its weight. Amorim’s rise to one of the biggest jobs in world football is located in the reform of Portuguese football in the 1980s - and specifically in the university faculty that helps turn out some of the world’s best coaches. Join Jonathan and Rob as we go back to school with Ruben Amorim, speaking to the mentors who forged him as a coach. It's a journey that takes in Jose Mourinho, Cristiano Ronaldo and super agent Jorge Mendes. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, and Part Two of our special look back at the remarkable career of Rafa Benitez - with the man himself!In this second part - Rafa, Jonathan and Rob look back at Rafa's arrival at Anfield, his influence on the Premier League, and then head backstage to explain the moments and decisions behind that iconic Champions League triumph in Istanbul.Join us as Rafa takes us inside the moments that defined his legacy in England, and cemented his place in Liverpool folklore.If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this special episode of It Was What It Was, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by the legendary Rafa Benitez.Part One explores the early years of Rafa's extraordinary career, from his beginnings as a promising young coach in Spain to his groundbreaking success with Valencia.Rafa shares the stories, challenges, and philosophy that shaped his journey. Part One takes us up to his arrival in England - setting the stage for the Premier League's tactical transformation that Rafa would help to spearhead.Don’t miss this brilliant insight from one of football’s most renowned tacticians - and join us for Part Two on Thursday. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this week’s episode of It Was What It Was, Jonathan and Rob take a deep dive into the fascinating journey of Thomas Tuchel, the newly appointed England manager. From his early years as a player with a mature football mind, to a detour studying economics while working in a cocktail bar, Tuchel’s path to football’s elite has been anything but ordinary. Jonathan and Rob discuss how a timely call from Ralph Rangnick set Tuchel on a coaching trajectory that would see him manage some of Europe’s biggest clubs— Mainz, Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea, and Bayern Munich. They reflect on the highlights of his career, including his confidence that led Chelsea to a thrilling Champions League victory over Manchester City in 2021. Now, with Tuchel at the helm of the England national team, the duo explores what he brings to the international stage, how he might shape England’s future, and whether he can achieve the same success on the world stage that he did in club football. Join us for a compelling look at one of football’s most innovative managers, and what his unique journey could mean for the future of English football. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this week’s episode of It Was What It Was, Miguel Delaney discusses his new book: States of Play: How Sportswashing Took Over Football.Jonathan, Rob and Miguel assess how mega-rich investors and state-backed owners have transformed clubs and competitions around the world. The trio explain the impact of sportswashing on our modern game - where nations and corporations have used football to enhance their public image and gain global influence. Join us for a compelling insight into football's new landscape - and find out what the future could hold for clubs, players, and fans.If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this bonus episode of It Was What It Was hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look into the striking parallels between Manchester United’s managerial struggles in the post-Matt Busby and post-Sir Alex Ferguson eras. Despite decades of history and immense success, the club has faced a persistent challenge in finding a manager capable of replicating the legacy left by its legendary figures.Following the recent sacking of Erik Ten Hag, the arrival of Ruben Amorim has reignited the age-old debate about the club's direction and leadership. Wilson and Draper explore how the patterns of the past continue to haunt United, questioning whether Amorim will be the answer to the club’s woes or merely another chapter in a familiar narrative.Join us as we analyze the lessons learned (or not learned) from the club's history, the impact of managerial instability, and the pressing questions that linger: Can United break free from the cycle of déjà vu, or will history repeat itself once again? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In Part Two of It Was What It Was, we dive into the explosive conclusion of the 1967 Intercontinental Cup clash between Celtic and Racing Club. With tempers flaring, the second and decisive third legs were anything but ordinary—featuring multiple send-offs, brutal fouls, and even a policeman with a drawn sword stepping onto the pitch.Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper guide you through the chaos and controversy that defined this historic showdown. Don’t miss the conclusion to one of football’s most infamous battles!If you’ve enjoyed this series, please subscribe for more deep dives into sports history, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on It Was What It Was, we’re traveling back to 1967, when Celtic’s legendary Lisbon Lions clashed with Racing Club in an unforgettable, fiery three-match series for the Intercontinental Cup. In Part One, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the stage before the first leg at Hampden Park, where Jock Stein’s side secured a 1-0 advantage to take to South America - though the real drama was just beginning. Join us on Thursday for the thrilling conclusion of this historic showdown in Part Two! If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on It Was What It Was, we're talking one of football's greatest rivalries: Real Madrid and Barcelona.In the week of El Clasico, Spanish football expert Sid Lowe joins Rob and Jonathan to discuss the history, politics and scandal behind possibly the biggest club match in football.If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode - and please consider leaving us a five star review to help others find the show. Thank you! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Join us for the final part of our special series on the shoe salesman who changed football forever: Arrigo Sacchi. In this episode of It Was What It Was, Sacchi comes to the end of his first spell at AC Milan and answers his country's call - managing the Italian national side at the World Cup in 1994 and Euro 96. This episode is the last in our series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It starts with our Sacchi intro episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!). If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It Was What It Was continues our special look into the life and career of one of football's greatest and most influential managers: Arrigo Sacchi. In this episode, Sacchi has finally arrived at AC Milan and, with a team of legends in the making, his greatest work is about to begin.This episode is part of our series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It starts with our Sacchi intro episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!). If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.