Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Even if you don’t believe he walked on water, the teachings of Jesus still have a certain power. My guest this week, the New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman, calls himself a “Christian atheist.” I asked Ehrman to come on the show to explore Jesus’ message, discuss how the Bible has shaped the morality of the Western world and explain what even the biggest skeptic can learn from one of mankind’s oldest texts. 0:00 - Intro 02:20 - Jesus’s moral teachings 08:15 - Ehrman’s path away from Christianity and faith 21:22 - The historical evidence for Jesus and the New Testament 33:26 - The challenges in interpreting the Gospels 52:07 - The contradictions in the New Testament 01:04:10 - Historical and geographical validity 01:09:25 - The visions and reality of the Resurrection 01:19:21 - A “Christian atheist” (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is the U.S. winning the war with Iran? Even though President Trump claims success, it doesn’t quite feel like it — oil and gas prices are high, the Strait of Hormuz is effectively closed, and the Iranian regime is still in place. Mark Dubowitz, the chief executive of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a prominent Iran hawk, explains why “total victory” is within reach in spite of the cost. I pressed him on the gap between Trump’s desire for a quick deal and his desire to end the Islamic Republic. 00:00 - Intro 00:03:49 - Is Iran biding its time until Trump leaves office? 00:07:07 - Three phases to regime change 00:09:42 - Iran's military capabilities and the Strait of Hormuz 00:14:54 - How will the next American president treat Iran? 00:18:48 - The battle for the Strait of Hormuz 00:23:27 - Will Iran attack its neighbors? 00:28:43 - Will Trump cut a deal? 00:38:19 - Does Israel think Trump is its best chance? 00:43:04 - Risk of U.S. alienation from Israel 00:48:01 - The cost of inaction and the Iranian people Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The idea that white people — and white men in particular — face discrimination has become something of an obsession on the American right. It’s a view that my guest this week shares. Jeremy Carl was nominated to a State Department post by the Trump administration, which sparked a lot of controversy. Carl is the author of “The Unprotected Class,” in which he makes the case that white Americans are in danger of becoming “second-class citizens.” I wanted to know what he thinks constitutes anti-white discrimination and whether focusing on it inevitably leads to white nationalism. After we taped this interview, Carl withdrew his nomination, acknowledging that he lacked enough support to be confirmed. 0:00 - Intro 01:59 - Jeremy Carl’s trajectory and State Department Nomination 05:24 - The Civil Rights Act and rise of anti-white Discrimination 12:20 - The impact of immigration on white Americans 24:53 - The "radicalization" of D.E.I. 37:37 - Carl’s provocative language and controversial tweets 51:06 - “White culture” vs. “civic nationalism” 01:01:00 - The fours pillars of “Americanness” (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Can the Democrats finally seize on President Trump’s increasing unpopularity and end their slump? It seems to me as though 2026 is providing them ample opportunity. But I wanted to know what they actually stand for. Have they learned anything about immigration? Are they ready for the new politics of artificial intelligence? To find out, I asked someone I consider a true man of the left, Chris Hayes, the host of “All In With Chris Hayes” on MS NOW. 00:00 Intro 02:09 - Democrats: The state of play in 2026 06:46 - How Israel fractures the Democrats 09:19 - Immigration reform beyond the “old consensus” 19:46 - Models for Democratic leadership: Mark Kelly, Ruben Gallego, Rafael Warnock, and Jon Ossoff 27:22 - 2028: Kamala Harris, Gavin Newsom and “the Hillary Clinton problem” 30:41 - The politics of attention 36:19 - The challenges of achieving a Leftist society 45:37 - A Leftist case against A.I. 1:04:23 - Will A.I. define the 2028 election? (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times With Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I don’t think a war with Iran is what Trump — or his voters — had in mind when he campaigned on “America first.” My guest this week is Curt Mills, the executive director of The American Conservative, a magazine that champions foreign policy restraint. Mills thinks the war with Iran is a major betrayal of the voters who put Trump in the White House and has the potential to shatter Trump’s domestic coalition. 01:27 - Tracking the Trump administration’s foreign policy shifts and dynamics 08:50 - The different strands of right-wing foreign policy 15:00 - Is the anti-war movement real?: Policy, polling and public opinion 27:49 - Israel, Saudi Arabia and the Middle East’s influence on U.S. foreign policy 40:17 - Why can’t Trump say no to Israel? 46:20 - How does the fallout in Iran impact Trump’s potential 2028 successors and insurgents? (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We’re going back to the moon for the first time in more than 50 years. That is, if Artemis II can get off the ground. I sat down with Jared Isaacman, the billionaire leading NASA, to hear his perspective on everything from extraterrestrial life to the timeline for sending humans to Mars. This interview was recorded before NASA announced the delay of Artemis II’s launch. 01:59 - Where are we? 04:00 - From entrepreneur to astronaut 09:04 - The “lunar futuristic junkyard” 15:06 - NASA’s budget 22:43 - Beyond NASA: Blue Origin, SpaceX and private industry 27:26 - The orbital economy 37:21 - How do we get to Mars? 43:31 - “Do you think there's life out there?” (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The next global leader is waiting in the wings — and no, I don’t mean China. India is the major power with the fastest-growing economy and the world’s largest population, and on the heels of trade deals with the United States and the European Union, it’s poised to become even more influential. I wanted to speak with Amitav Acharya, a prominent international relations scholar, about whether a new Indian century is about to be born.01:49 - India vs. China: The race to development05:26 - “The mother of all trade deals”11:02 - India's “multi-aligned” foreign policy17:46 - What is India’s grand strategy?24:08 - The diaspora’s cultural and civilizational influence41:50 - India in 2060(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A.I. is evolving fast, and humanity is falling behind. Dario Amodei, the chief executive of Anthropic, has warned about the potential benefits — and real dangers — linked to the speed of that progress. As one of the lords of this technology, is he on the side of the human race?01:37 - The promise and optimism of A.I.12:59 - White collar "bloodbaths"25:09 - Robotics and physical labor30:16 - The first “dangerous” scenario42:22 - What if it goes rogue?48:01 - Claude’s constitution(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Nearly four years after Roe v. Wade was overturned, where is the pro-life movement setting its sights? That’s what I wanted to know from the activist Lila Rose. We spoke last month in front of a live audience at the Catholic University of America. We debated whether her cause was prepared for the fall of Roe and whether abortion still matters at all to the right. 01:55 - Live Action and undercover activism05:53 - Pro-Life 101 and S.L.E.D.13:36 - “The mistake of feminism”17:02 - Pro-family policy22:47 - The political landscape after Roe 42:35 - The pro-life movement beyond politics47:39 - The medical “zone of uncertainty”53:53 - Why should women be pro-life?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I want to say something that few conservatives will admit right now: Donald Trump has lost the country. The coalition he assembled to defeat Kamala Harris has evaporated, and his aggressive agenda — never mind his legacy — won’t survive if Republicans can’t win the next election.Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If you want to understand how Robert F. Kennedy Jr. became the face of American public health, you have to go back to the Covid era. Medical authorities spoke with certainty: Trust the science. Don’t listen to skeptics. But a lot of people stopped trusting experts entirely when outsiders got some things right and the establishment got some things wrong. Now those outsiders are in charge, like my guest this week. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya is the director of the National Institutes of Health. I wanted to know: Can an outsider restore trust in public health institutions without undermining trust even more?02:11 - How the “fringe epidemiologist” came to be08:18 - What went wrong while “crushing COVID-19”15:18 - “The responsibility of public health leaders”28:42 - Reforming public health and the NIH42:52 - Three areas of controversy plaguing public health1:00:52 - Success metrics(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

President Trump’s aggressive return to the White House has been disruptive in ways that will continue to reshape American — and global — governance and politics for decades. At a live event with the Library Foundation of Los Angeles, I joined my colleague Jamelle Bouie and our boss, the Opinion editor, Kathleen Kingsbury, to break down the first year of Trump 2.0. This conversation originally aired as an episode of “The Opinions.”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Something surprising is happening to religious belief in America: It’s no longer trending downward. Are Americans becoming more religious? On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross sits down with the demographer and former pastor Ryan Burge to discuss the myths and realities of religious revival and debate whether the future belongs to ortho bros or Pagans.01:32 - A new era of American religion08:19 - The shifting gender balance in religion13:38 - Class, education and social trust18:48 - Tarot, astrology, and UFOs: Post-Christian spirituality22:40 - The decline of the Seven Sisters28:27 - Politics in the pews40:29 - The religious and political America of 2050(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Can cellphone cameras and whistles impede President Trump’s immigration policy? On this week’s episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross speaks with Francisco Segovia, the executive director of a Minneapolis-based nonprofit on the front lines of anti-ICE activism, about how his organization is training citizens to become constitutional observers. “It’s your right to video record what your government is doing,” he says. Ross asks if there’s any enforcement he’d accept. 2:56 Current dynamics on the ground in Minneapolis5:03 Communities Organizing Power and Action for Latinos (COPAL)6:53 Francisco Segovia's story14:26 What is a constitutional observer? 22:27 Reflections on Renee Good28:59 Training efforts to try and keep protesters safe34:42 What kind of immigration enforcement is legitimate? Hey, Los Angeles! Come see Ross in conversation with the columnist Jamelle Bouie and the editor of New York Times Opinion, Katie Kingsbury, on Tuesday, Jan. 20. They’ll take stock of the first year of Trump’s second term and debate the administration’s biggest actions so far and what it all means for our country. Get tickets here while they’re still available. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What should the U.S. do next in Venezuela? President Trump’s former Venezuela envoy Elliott Abrams wants the Trump administration to push harder for full regime change. But, he and Ross debate if a democratic transition is even possible based on the administration’s interests and past American efforts in the region.01:15 - The case for regime change in Venezuela07:43 - The Trump administration’s current strategy14:06 - The Abrams Plan: An alternative approach17:50 - Oil blockades, sanctions, and military action28:54 - Past transitions in Latin America36:06 - The Reagan administration's “unsavory allies”43:57 - Trump’s priorities are a “mystery”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week we’re sharing an episode of ‘Making Sense With Sam Harris.’ The author and podcaster recently invited Ross on his show to discuss religion and politics. But they debated so much more: the existence of God, the mystery of the cosmos, the limits of consciousness, moral progress and even whether demons walk among us.Note: This recording has not been fact-checked by our team.(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays! This week Ross Douthat shares one of his favorite poems for the occasion, “The Journey of the Magi,” written by T.S. Eliot, to reflect on a year one might call “interesting.” See you next year! Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Edgelords, Groypers, Sydney Sweeney’s jeans. American pop culture is having a right-wing moment. Ross recently joined the “Popcast” hosts Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli to debate whether it will ever be truly cool to be conservative in Hollywood.(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

After Charlie Kirk’s assassination, conspiracy theories and divisions multiplied on the right. On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross talks to Andrew Kolvet, a Turning Point USA spokesperson and executive producer of “The Charlie Kirk Show,” about what happens to a movement when its charismatic leader is gone, what it’s like to be the target of conspiracy theories, and whether there are any issues unifying conservatism now.01:32 - Andrew’s friendship with Charlie Kirk05:18 - Turning Point U.S.A.’s activism and impact11:16 - Charlie Kirk’s assassination and its aftermath18:42 - The divisions on the right start with conspiracy theories 38:28 - “Can the right hold together on Israel?”41:19 - Stress-testing the cohesion on the right56:08 - The Erika Kirk/Trump contrast(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The transgender rights movement in America appeared to be gaining momentum. But after suffering a big loss before the Supreme Court in June and facing a shift in public opinion, where does the fight go now? On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross is joined by Chase Strangio, a transgender rights activist and a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union, to discuss strategy in the courtroom and in the court of public opinion — as well as broader philosophical questions about transgender identity.02:15 - Bostock vs. Clayton County08:30 - United States v. Skrmetti22:57 - Defining sex, gender identity and transgender identity32:52 - Chase talks about “coming home”40:42 - Healthcare for transgender youth is changing56:58 - Sports and transgender athletes1:07:49 - Coexistence within the debate(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Happy Thanksgiving! If you’re dreading your family’s impending political feuds over turkey and dinner rolls, we’re here to share an episode that just might help guide you. In August, Osita Nwanevu, a progressive and the author of “The Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding,” joined Ross for a respectful debate about how we should be interrogating the democratic system the country is built on — without yelling or threats.5:21 - What's wrong with our democracy? 10:43 - Our undemocratic founding 18:36 - The case for more U.S. states and a new constitution25:27 - Where economic reform fits into this problem 30:54 - Does Trump represent the will of the people?38:50- What Trump’s presidency says about democracy42:06 - The elusive Bernie Sanders moment 48:05 - The mystical element of our politics(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is antisemitism the next chapter of “America First”? Many see the appeal of antisemitic ideas among younger conservatives as a natural consequence of a hard right nationalist turn. Yoram Hazony — a prominent advocate of nationalist politics — is trying to keep that from happening. He joins Ross to discuss the root of right-wing antisemitism and what right-wing leaders should do about it.02:12 - Just how bad is antisemitism on the right?06:24 - The generational and theological rebellion14:35 - “The virtues of nationalism” and an American cultural center25:33 - Foreign policy under nationalism29:59 - The U.S. - Israel Relationship and antisemitism45:59 - What can nationalist leaders do about antisemitism(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

“There’s something very spiritually dark about the internet,” the author Paul Kingsnorth tells Ross Douthat in this week’s episode of “Interesting Times.” Kingsnorth warns against the expanding presence of technology in our lives and declares it “the war against human nature.”00:06:10 - Defining "The Machine"00:08:03 - Ecological vs. Spiritual Collapse00:15:03 - The Case for Modernity00:24:02 - The Four Ps of a Healthy Culture00:28:39 - Collapse, Revival, and The Internet00:34:05 - Thiel, Musk, and The Antichrist00:42:37 - The Choice in 'Alexandria'00:46:44 - How to Live Within The Machine(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is society too feminine or not feminine enough? Two conservative writers, Helen Andrews and Leah Libresco Sargeant, disagree on the answer. They join Ross Douthat to debate whether the feminization of institutions led to wokeism and a greater divide between men and women.01:33 “Wokeness is distinctively feminine.”06:17 - Has liberal feminism failed women?16:26 - The feminization of institutions20:47 - Defining feminine and masculine vices24:09 - Toxic femininity 39:09 - Defeminization in the workplace(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Does Zohran Mamdani’s win mean a new dawn for the Democratic Party? Not exactly, Ross Douthat argues. In this mini-episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross explains that the New York mayor’s office has historically been a “springboard to nowhere,” rather than a precursor for national politics.(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Who’s afraid of Palantir? The company’s chief technology officer, Shyam Sankar, joins Ross Douthat for a conversation about what the shadowy company actually does — and the thorny political and ethical questions it faces. They also discuss the new era of collaboration between Silicon Valley and the military, a personal project for Sankar, who was recently commissioned as a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army Reserve.01:37 - So, what does Palantir do?07:45 - The “kill chain”13:27 - The tech company’s relationship with I.C.E.18:09 - What happens to privacy?25:30 - Palantir and Israel27:22 - Sankar’s personal military journey34:43 - Silicon Valley’s militarization43:09 - TITAN, A.I. and the “Iron Man” suit(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is Taylor Swift’s “The Life of a Showgirl” the soundtrack for the Trump era? Self-titled “conservative dad” Ross Douthat thinks so, and explains why in this mini-episode of “Interesting Times.Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is the artificial intelligence revolution keeping the entire economy afloat? This week on “Interesting Times,” Ross talks with Jason Furman, an economist from the Harvard Kennedy School and a contributing writer for Times Opinion, about how investors, policymakers and consumers should think about the boom — and potential bust — of the fastest growing segment of the American economy and look to past bubbles for answers.01:12 - Okay, so are we in a bubble?08:51 - Historical comparisons of past bubbles12:45 - The case for an A.I. bubble22:07 - The case against an A.I. bubble29:44 - What if it bursts?34:15 - The economic health of the Trump administration45:08 - “I'm reasonably optimistic.”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Justice Amy Coney Barrett is playing the long game. In this week’s “Interesting Times,” she walks us through the current court’s most controversial rulings, why she believes that her originalist interpretations are resistant to ideological pressures and why she’s not comfortable thinking of herself as a cultural icon.02:19 - Balancing the personal and the professional11:45 - The theory and practice of originalism18:00 - Why was Roe. v. Wade overruled?27:19 - Stare Decisis and Overruling Decisions35:29 - “Judges are human and judges are fallible.”42:49 - The Supreme Court is taking the long view53:20 - The Court's relationship with the executive branch(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Evangelical pastor and self-proclaimed Christian nationalist Doug Wilson has been preaching for decades that America needs to reclaim its Puritan past. But in 2025, he believes he’s “significantly” more influential. Does that mean America is closer to Wilson’s goal of theocracy? In this episode, nothing is off limits — even Ross’s own salvation.01:36 - Doug Wilson's vision for a Christian nation08:37 - Wilson’s ideal theocratic republic19:12 - Theocracy and religious diversity30:50 - Do women have rights in this new republic?36:59 - Christendom and slavery46:50 - How far does Wilson’s influence go in a “clown world”?59:54 - Calvinism activism and quietism(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Twitch and YouTube star Hasan Piker understands what pushes people to commit acts of political violence. But does that understanding tip over into appreciation? In this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross Douthat and Piker debate why Piker’s post-liberal rhetoric attracts criticism from the right (and results in the occasional platform suspension) and why Americans’ changing attitudes on Israel feed his “revolutionary optimism.”02:14 - Life during and after Twitch10:45 - The Hasan Piker worldview15:57 - “Revolutionary violence”20:13 - Is it hyperbole or incitement?30:48 - Hasan’s Luigi Mangione coverage41:35 - The danger in pushing taboos51:52 - Anti-Zionist advocacy and Hasan’s Turkish background1:08:00 - “Revolutionary optimism”Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What is wrong with higher education in America? According to many on the right, a lot. This week, Ross Douthat talks to May Mailman, the lawyer behind President Trump’s battles with Harvard and Columbia, about the administration’s assault on the Ivy League and why “a glorification of victimhood” is changing the relationship between universities and the federal government.02:51 - What is a “culture of victimhood”?07:38 - Mailman’s political awakening11:44 - Social media and protest culture in the 2010s19:39 - The Trump administration’s strategy against universities26:33 - The financial levers that could ensure compliance36:09 - Ideological diversity and free speech47:56 - How legal is all this?52:25 - Higher education in 2030Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Ezra Klein argues that the left desperately needs a unifying project — for its own survival and for the sake of the country. In this episode of Ross Douthat’s “Interesting Times,” Ross and Ezra assess the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s assassination and debate whether the left has taken a dark turn.00:25 How liberalism became “uncertain and exhausted”08:37 The void in the Democratic Party12:21 Does progressive despair lead to radicalism?15:04 “Violence is contagious"19:24 Can the left be more malleable?28:20 The hippies, Peter Thiel and technology32:11 Does the American left need cosmic hope?41:59 A vision of the “good life”Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In moments of political shock and horror, where can we turn? Ross was supposed to interview Charlie Kirk next month for the show and now offers his reflections on Kirk, his political movement and his assassination.(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is the United States still a worthy opponent for China? In this episode, Ross Douthat talks to Dan Wang, the author of “Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future,” about the alarming speed at which China is able to build and could blow America out of the water.01:44 - “A life full of ease and beauty”05:30 - Rule by engineers11:00 - China’s Technological Mastery16:04 - Is autocracy driving innovation?25:00 - What are the real stakes of the competition?35:47 - How could China fail? 53:00 - Advice for America(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

While “Interesting Times” is on vacation, we’re sharing a conversation from “The Opinions” between Meher Ahmad, an editor for Times Opinion, and the Opinion writer Jessica Grose. They talk about the aesthetics of MAGA women — think Kristi Noem and Nancy Mace — and what they signal about femininity and power within the Republican Party. Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week, we’re sharing a great conversation Ross had on “The Ezra Klein Show” this past spring. Ezra asks Ross about his most recent book, “Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.” But along the way, they debate not just how religion influences the Trump administration but also their own lives. Come for their seeking and stay for their thoughts on ayahuasca and mystical encounters.02:39 - Trump: man of destiny?19:55 - Political power, cruelty and Godliness36:13 - Religion and spirituality in the modern world42:53 - The mysteries of the universe…48:38 - Aliens! Fairies! (and some Catholic history)56:51 - Contending with uncertainty and evil1:05:24 - Psychedelic experiences1:20:56 - Official knowledge1:38:58 - Book recommendationsThoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

For Democrats, President Trump’s victories have revealed the antidemocratic flaws at the core of our government. But could it be an opening for a constitutional revolution as the party searches for its next leader?This week, Ross explores what that revolution would entail with Osita Nwanevu, the author of the book, “The Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding.”3:46 - What's wrong with our democracy? 9:07 - Our undemocratic founding 17:00 - The case for more U.S. states and a new constitution23:52 - Where economic reform fits into this problem 29:26 - Does Trump represent the will of the people?37:17 - What Trump’s presidency says about democracy40:30 - The elusive Bernie Sanders moment 46:29 - The mystical element of our politicsThoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Would you use an algorithm to select your embryos? Enter Orchid, a company that promises parents the ability to protect their future children through genetic testing for embryos before pregnancy. The founder, Noor Siddiqui, and Ross debate the scientific, moral and ethical implications of designing a “healthy” child and what we lose in separating reproduction from sex.01:27 - Orchid’s vision04:59- The process and benefits17:20 - Noor explains why Orchid was developed22:00- Criticism and skepticism around genetic screening36:21 - Does IVF need to change?44:00 - “The moral status of the embryo”53:36 - How does this technology change us?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Does America have a moral obligation to the world? The former Department of Government Efficiency staffer Jeremy Lewin, now deputy administrator for the United States Agency for International Development, explains how he is implementing President Trump’s foreign aid philosophy and what it means for humanitarian assistance going forward.01:59 - From the private sector to interviewing with Elon Musk09:18 - The rapid restructuring of U.S.A.I.D.19:44 - Lewin’s critiques of U.S.A.I.D.’s focus25:15 - The most controversial cuts: humanitarian aid 29:50 - America’s interests first, values-based interests second40:14 - What is the future vision for foreign aid?(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

U.F.O.s, fairies and abductions! This week, Ross talks to Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religious studies, about how a deep dive into Catholic archives led her down a path to unravel the connections between religion, extraterrestrial encounters and government secrecy.01:53 - How Pasulka’s religious studies led to the U.F.O. debate06:08 - Modern U.F.O. encounters and telepathic communication13:29 - What are the actual beliefs of the U.F.O. community?19:28 - Whistleblowers and government contradictions31:35 - Angels, demons and “actual things in the sky”45:38 - Disclosure52:51 - “Amazing.”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Julie K. Brown thinks Jeffrey Epstein didn’t act alone. On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross talks to Brown, the investigative reporter whose work ultimately led to Epstein’s re-arrest, about what the government could release that it hasn’t and how the story is bigger than Epstein.2:32 - Brown's initial interest in the Epstein case5:26 - Discovering Epstein's crimes and the plea deal13:13 - Epstein's victims and the impact of Brown's reporting18:20 - Epstein's wealth and connections25:20 - Epstein's social circles35:01 - Certainty and unsolved mysteries45:25 - The role of government in the case51:04 - Trump and the political fallout(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The conservative Christian podcaster Allie Beth Stuckey joins Ross on “Interesting Times” this week to explain why “toxic empathy” has a stranglehold on politics, whether evangelical Christians have a red line President Trump could cross and why her commentary has echoes of Phyllis Schlafly.01:26 “The New Phyllis Schlafly”9:46 Untangling the web of Evangelical Protestants15:50 Female authority in the church22:12 What is “toxic empathy”?30:55 Toxic empathy and cruelty in American politics40:19 Do conservative christians have a red line?57:24 “The mushy middle”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.