Interdependence

Super excited to share this one, on the advent of our collaboration for Holly+, we are joined by Chris Deaner and Yotam Mann of Never Before Heard Sounds, a brand new company releasing AI music tools, to discuss approachable AI tools for music making, the inevitable model economy, new approaches to DAWs and the Holly+ project more generally! Never Before Heard Sounds: https://heardsounds.com/Follow them on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HeardSoundsPlay with Holly+ (and share your results!): https://holly.plus/

Happy to welcome activist and science communicator Zion Lights to discuss Energy Justice, the scientific consensus around Nuclear Power, the shaky morality of Degrowth positions, Greta Thunberg, Extinction Rebellion and her new advocacy organisation, Emergency Reactor!Zion Lights: http://www.zionlights.co.uk/Join Emergency Reactor: https://www.emergencyreactor.org/

Continuing our DAO thread we are thrilled to be joined by Aaron & Priyanka of OpenLaw, instrumental in formulating and passing the Wyoming DAO legislation, and stewards of NFT art collection DAO Flamingo, Tempest DAO and The LAO. We discuss what a DAO is, what the legislation means for human and nonhuman DAOs, art collecting in web3 and how DAO governance has been working in practice. This is a great introduction to DAOs and early experiments in the medium for the unfamiliar!Apologies for the imperfect audio, our laptop decided to rebel just as we started the call. Next week we continue the theme by inviting Science Fiction author Daniel Suarez, whose book Daemon had a hand in inspiring the concept of the DAO in the first place, as discussed in this episode :)Thanks again for your support everyone, have a wonderful week OpenLaw: https://www.openlaw.ioFlamingoDAO: https://flamingodao.xyz/The LAO: https://www.thelao.io/Follow Priyanka: https://twitter.com/pridesaiFollow Aaron: https://twitter.com/awrigh01

Watch Josh's streams: https://www.twitch.tv/joshuacitarellaListen to Josh's interviews: https://www.patreon.com/joshuacitarellaJoshua Citarella - 20 Interviews Book: https://www.amazon.com/20-Interviews-Joshua-Citarella/dp/1034279270/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=joshua+citarella&qid=1611597124&sr=8-1Welcome to TikTok, the Wildly Popular Video App Where Gen Z Makes the Rules: https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-tiktok-wildly-popular-video-app-gen-rules

Follow Jon: https://twitter.com/jgkoomeyTurning Numbers into Knowledge: http://www.numbersintoknowledge.com/Estimating Bitcoin Electricity Use: A Beginner’s Guide: https://www.coincenter.org/estimating-bitcoin-electricity-use-a-beginners-guide/SORRY, WRONG NUMBER: The Use and Misuse of Numerical Facts in Analysis and Media Reporting of Energy Issues: attached ;)Mike Berners Lee: How Bad are Bananas?: https://www.amazon.com/How-Bad-Are-Bananas-Everything/dp/1553658310Brandolini's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law

Rully Shabara: https://www.rullyshabara.id/Senyawa: https://www.rullyshabara.id/senyawaAlkisah: https://alkisah.net/Participating label list: https://alkisah.net/track-list/Raung Jagat: https://www.rullyshabara.id/raung-jagat

New Design Congress: https://newdesigncongress.org/en/On Weaponized Design: https://newdesigncongress.org/en/pub/on-weaponised-designThis is Fine: Optimism and Emergency in the P2P network: https://newdesigncongress.org/en/pub/this-is-fineCade: https://shiba.computer/Follow Cade: https://twitter.com/helveticade

Foundation: https://foundation.app/Foundation on Twitter: https://twitter.com/withFNDKayvon on Twitter: https://twitter.com/saturnialLindsay on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Lindsay_Howard

Sign up for updates on the Marine Snow project: https://marine-snow.co/sssFollow Tony Lashley: https://twitter.com/tooonyl

Pseudodoxology Podcast Network: https://www.patreon.com/Pseudodoxia"The Deluge": https://medium.com/@EdwardWaverley/the-deluge-f62968b20972"The Sublimity of Permanent Collapse": https://medium.com/@EdwardWaverley/the-sublimity-of-permanent-collapse-and-the-leibnizian-problem-of-monadic-optimization-inherent-in-70d6e8be095aBooks!Anything by Frederick BeiserThe Art of Memory by Frances A.Yates :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_MemoryThe Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_MindLogic and the Art of Memory (The Quest for a Universal Language) by Paolo Rossi:https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/L/bo3620360.htmlThe Gallery of Memory: Literary and Iconographic Models in the Age of the Printing Press by Lina Bolzoni and Jeremy Parzen:https://utorontopress.com/us/the-gallery-of-memory-2LibGen: https://libgen.is/

Scissor Labels Essay: https://j.mirror.xyz/RUeJfZEZxr-hkuzUCakQyUuf2kOJVMPPiAWBaQFhhqcHow it was funded via $ESSAY: https://j.mirror.xyz/uVGCCwwm3k341lPpxaJmHTZROESVse9Pe_rmbiuUAC0John Palmer: https://johnpalmer.site/#/Kara Kittel: https://twitter.com/karakittel?lang=enToby Shorin: https://tobyshorin.com/Other Internet: https://otherinter.net/

http://audreyt.org/ Full editable transcript hosted on gov.tw:https://sayit.pdis.nat.gov.tw/2021-03-03-interview-with-interdependence

Back in the saddle with Artist and Musician Lawrence Lek for the advent of his latest film AIDOL (2019) and the release of it's wonderful soundtrack on Hyperdub.We discuss AI Pop Stars, SinoFuturism, IP and cultural stereotypes, NFT murder plots and a great deal moreHave a wonderful week all :)LINKSLawrence Lek: https://lawrencelek.com/AIDOL OST (Hyperdub): https://hyperdub.net/products/lawrence-lek-aidol-ostAIDOL Trailer: https://vimeo.com/331655114Geomancer Trailer: https://vimeo.com/251303726

In celebration of his new book "Hope Runners of Gridlock", we chat to polymath Simon de la Rouviere about designing new economies, never ending stories, Metamodernism and maintaining hope!Buy the book! https://blog.simondlr.com/posts/hope-runners-of-gridlockFollow Simon's writings! https://blog.simondlr.com/Follow Simon! https://twitter.com/simondlr

A rare conversation with designer David Rudnick https://void.davidrudnick.org/

A brief history of tokens and tulips, NFT aesthetics, energy dramas, fan brigades, social tokens and the meataverse with Daniel Keller (New Models)Check out New Models!https://newmodels.io/https://www.patreon.com/newmodels Topic marks!3:00 NFTs and Post Internet5:00 Metahaven “Can Jokes Bring Down Governments?” https://www.amazon.com/Can-Jokes-Bring-Down-Governments/dp/099291468X7:00 NFTs for n00bs / What is an NFT11:30 Ethereum Name Services15:00 History of the space16:00 Cryptokitties20:00 Tulip Mania was overblown!22:00 Terra0’s Flowertokens24:00 Price and market26:00 Present state of NFTs29:00 Traditional art market improvements31:00 Current NFT aesthetics35:00 Horizontalism and “democratisation”38:00 Beeple40:00 Sedition and earlier experiments44:00 NFTs, Ownership and My Collectible Ass57:00 NFTs tied to physical objects62:00 Protocols vs Symbolism65:00 Crypto energy drama77:00 Social and Community Tokens82:00 Gas fees91:00 Non custodial protocols94:00 Matt Liston’s 0xOmega98:00 Portable identities102:00 The meataverse108:00 What does Interdependence mean to Dan?

Hello everyone! Over the moon this week to welcome Professor Jason Edward Lewis and Suzanne Kite of the Indigenous Protocol and AI Working group!We discuss the origins and goals of the project, different perspectives on creating AI elders, lessons about communicating with non human intelligences from various Indigenous groups, where utopian freedom of information ideas clash with ideas of self determination, and speculations about building a Hawaiian programming language. We may take a break next week, but have plenty more great conversations recorded for you all. Thanks again for your support and have a safe and warm, albeit not ideal, holiday period LINKSIndigenous AI https://www.indigenous-ai.net/Their Position Paper: https://spectrum.library.concordia.ca/986506/7/Indigenous_Protocol_and_AI_2020.pdfProfessor Jason Edward Lewishttp://jasonlewis.org/Suzanne Kitehttp://kitekitekitekite.com/Kite's beautiful album "People You Must Look At Me" https://unheardrecords.bandcamp.com/

In this episode we welcome the full Audius squad, Roneil Rumberg, Forrest Browning and Clayton Blaha to discuss their new music protocol, how it establishes the rails for artist led, rather than centrally mandated, pricing and design of economic and interactive relationships, Soundcloud and the dangers of platform risk, and the ways in which we might drag people away from centralised platforms and communicate the benefits unlocked by decentralised scene ownership.It was a wonderful discussion and I left it feeling very confident that this group of people are onto something! Head over to audius.co to take a look around.Have a sweet week, we’ve got a lot more coming!LINKShttps://audius.co/https://twitter.com/AudiusProjecthttps://twitter.com/roneilrhttps://twitter.com/ForrestBrowninghttps://twitter.com/FerrariJetpack

In the advent of their new book “Pharmako-AI”, co-written with OpenAI’s GPT-3 system, we speak to K Allado-McDowell (and GPT-3) about creating with an inhuman (and a human), the nature and history of intelligence, and focussing art and technology towards healing.K Allado-McDowell is a writer, speaker, and musician. They are the author, with GPT-3, of the book Pharmako-AI, and are co-editor, with Ben Vickers, of The Atlas of Anomalous AI. Allado-McDowell records and releases music under the name Qenric.Allado-McDowell established the Artists + Machine Intelligence program at Google AI. They are a conference speaker, educator and consultant to think-tanks and institutions seeking to align their work with deeper traditions of human understanding.Buy Pharmako-AI: https://ignota.org/products/pharmako-aiCheck out Kalla's other work: kalladomcdowell.comThe Inclosure of Reason (by Anil Bawa-Cavia): https://technosphere-magazine.hkw.de/p/The-Inclosure-of-Reason-ecTsvnENeC1GXtmgRNaMH9

Let's talk about elitism.Buy Eliane's incredible book Elitism: A Progressive Defensehttps://www.bitebackpublishing.com/books/elitism-a-progressive-defence

We welcome author Matt Colquhoun to discuss his release of TWO new books exploring the work of the late, great Mark Fisher.We discuss Mark's life and legacy, Post Capitalist desire, accelerationism, the various misinterpretations of Capitalist Realism, and the need for psychedelic new fantasies.Postcapitalist Desire: The Final Lectures: https://repeaterbooks.com/product/postcapitalist-desire-the-final-lectures/Egress: On Mourning, Melancholy and Mark Fisher: https://repeaterbooks.com/product/egress-on-mourning-melancholy-and-mark-fisher/Xenogothic: https://xenogothic.com/

It was difficult to coordinate release schedules with the CIA but we got there in the endThis week we discuss the CIA and the art world with Frances Stonor Saunders, author of the canonical book in this field "Who Paid The Piper?". Big thanks to the HKW for facilitating this discussion, and be sure to check out the other programming from their "Disappearance of Music" event.LINKSWho Paid the Piper?:https://granta.com/products/who-paid-the-piper/HKW Disappearance of Music: https://www.hkw.de/en/programm/projekte/2020/das_verschwinden_der_musik/start.php#:~:text=The%20discursive%20digital%20music%20festival,or%20under%20strict%20protective%20measures.

Hi everyoneIn this episode we welcome Nathan Schneider, professor of media studies at the University of Colorado Boulder, significant player in the platform co-operativism movement and the originator of the term “exit to community”We discuss the state of platform co-operativism today, the intersections between more traditional coop communities and the emerging crypto world, the history of co-ops, and as usual we get to gleefully dunk on the mythologies of the centralised platform economy.xxxx

Hi everyone,happy to share a conversation this week with The Union of Musicians and Allied Workers, whose petition making demands of Spotify to improve terms for artists has gathered over 20,000 signatures and counting.We discuss those demands in detail, other initiatives they have undertaken and take the rare opportunity to have a conversation about living under streaming with other actively touring musicians . LINKSSign up for Justice at Spotify: https://www.unionofmusicians.org/justice-at-spotifyGet involved with UMAW: https://www.unionofmusicians.org/Follow them: https://twitter.com/UMAW_Buy a Downtown Boys record: https://downtownboys.bandcamp.com/

We join Sarah Friend, core dev from talk of the town project Circles UBI to discuss the crazy few weeks they have been having giving away a UBI through social trust networks. We pull apart how the project works and discuss the history of local currencies, potential dystopian scenarios, "weird fatigue" and the turbulence of pursuing an art practice that involves building things that do stuff.We went on a recording frenzy this past week so have a bunch more great episodes lined up. Hope you are all good! Links!Circles UBIhttps://circles.garden/Sarah's other workhttps://isthisa.com/2017: The year the blockchain got weirdhttps://www.coindesk.com/2017-year-blockchain-got-weird

Hi everyone!This week we welcome Dee and Jacob from Zora, a new organisation that is building tools for artists to issue tokens around their creative practices.We discuss their idea of dynamic pricing of art releases and at the advent of the musician RAC releasing his $RAC token through ZORA, the new space of artists and their audiences owning a stake in the value they interdependently create in the world. We also talk a tour around the very short history of artist token models, how these new tools are enabling financial literacy, what not to do, and what other potential models could emerge from this nascent era of collectively owned cultural institutions.This was a really fun and optimistic conversation, and if you are interested to learn more about the project, be sure to check out http://ourzora.com or reach out to Dee or Jacob on twitter.Have a great week and thanks again for your support!LINKShttp://ourzora.comhttps://twitter.com/js_hornehttps://twitter.com/dg_goens

Back with a conversation with a special person and close friend of the podcast Jay SpringettJay is a writer, theorist and podcaster who falls into a special category of people where we can say with some confidence that whatever they are thinking about will be commonplace in a few years. We discuss a passion of his, Solarpunk, cultural fracking, universe construction, permaculture, Russia’s real jurassic park, K pop and the factory model, reality modelling and aerospace, conspiracy theories and much more.Can’t recommend enough that you check out Jay’s various cultural contributions, and hope you are all having a wonderful week. LINKSthejaymo.netPermanentlymoved.onlineComeinternetwith.mehttps://www.thejaymo.net/solarpunk-rusted-chrome/http://opentranscripts.org/transcript/solarpunk-grand-dress-rehearsal/https://www.thejaymo.net/seeing-through-the-debris/https://stacktivism.com/

This week we are thrilled to welcome the author and critic Huw Lemmey in celebration of his new novel Unknown Language, written in collaboration with Hildegard of Bingen and out now on Ignota booksWe discuss what it is like to channel the dead and write a novel together, Hildegard's visions and genius, constructed languages, and Bad Gays; Huw’s wonderful podcast with the historian Ben Miller.We could have talked for a few lifetimes :)Thanks again for the support and have a wonderful week! LINKSUnknown Language out now on Ignota Bookshttps://ignota.org/products/unknown-languageUtopian Drivel, Huw's weekly Substack!https://huw.substack.com/Bad Gays pod!https://badgayspod.com/Huw on Twitterhttps://twitter.com/huwlemmey

The second part of our discussion facilitated in collaboration with Sonar +D and Ars Electronica.Particularly excited to share this one, where we reflect upon what foundations of the club economy appear to be most exposed by the current crisis, discuss Richie's work with AFEM to help get producers paid, and speculate on the possibility of new and necessary economic relationships between DJ's and producers under a guild model.LinksSonar +D https://sonarplusd.com/Ars Electronica https://ars.electronica.art/news/en/AFEM: https://www.associationforelectronicmusic.org/initiatives/

Really happy to welcome Other Internet to the podcast, an independent strategy and research squad based between New York and Berlin.Their recent essay “Squad Wealth” looks at the phenomenon of interdependent squads emerging on the internet as a necessary progression from the atomized independence economy.We discuss Squad Wealth and their other incredibly useful conception of Headless Brands, the redundancy of the binary left/right axis when tracking emerging cultural developments, critiques that have been leveled against their Squad analysis, and different decentralized institutions and arrangements that are forming to spread big squad energy.Wonderful group of people. Hope you are having a good week! We have a bunch of great guests lined up into the fall, and now have electricity in the space. Although given the way things work in Berlin it might be a few months before we might have an internet connection…Linkshttps://otherinter.net/squad-wealth/https://otherinter.net/web3/headless-brands/

Last night we recorded a long and fun conversation with the Hugo award winning author and futurist Bruce Sterling. As you will hear Bruce has a great deal of knowledge about a great deal of stuff, and as well as his early writing helping to establish the cyberpunk movement, he was also among a handful of people who set the countercultural tone in San Francisco at the dawn of WIRED and the dot com boom. He is also a curator and expert on digital art. We discuss his being the first WIRED cover story, new information he uncovered on the relationship between Charles Babbage and Ada Lovelace, the first science fiction writer; a woman referred to as “mad Madge”, Qanon as Christian fundamentalist Scifi, Amazons beginnings as a sci-fi bookstore, ideas from early dot com times that people didn’t pick up but maybe should have done more with, and to close we have a fiery debate about the merits and pitfalls of the name of this podcast and a conversation with GPT-3.Bruce is a treat to talk to and a fountain of wild knowledge, we hope its fun to listen to. Have a great week.

This week we are thrilled to bring a conversation with Amy C. Beal from UC Santa Cruz, whose book "New Music New Allies: Experimental Music in West Germany from the Zero Hour to Reunification" not only gives us insight into the role that German state funding has played in American experimental art since the Second World War, but also offers clues as to the unique responsibilities and complications inherent to that continued funding to the present day. We get to discuss how the US State Department funded Jazz concerts throughout Europe, the CIA involvement in cold war soft power art games, and she shares some novel insights as to the level of internal discrimination posed towards female Avant Garde composers of the time. Amy is a deeply researched guest, and we hope that the contemporary implications of this conversation are clear to see.Have a great week!Links:New Music New Allies: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Amy-C-Beal/dp/0520247558

It’s a hot one! This afternoon recorded a discussion with Mixcloud CEO and DJ Nico Perez, and our studio was so hot that we had to keep all the windows open for our own health and also to keep the laptop from spontaneously combusting! As a result this recording is resplendent with the occasional child screaming or dog barking, but hopefully that adds to the experience :)Nico joined us to discuss Mixcloud's select feature for directly supporting artists, how their bold move to introduce payment splits between DJ’s and artists could potentially be taken further, club culture under COVID-19 and the new terrain of artist live streaming, and the importance of building strong foundations for strong scenes in opposition to the “one size fits all” model that is fortunately receiving its fair share of criticism online at the moment.Thanks again for supporting us!! We hope you are having a great week and are well hydrated!Links (feel free to request if we missed one!)Mixcloud Select: https://www.mixcloud.com/select/AFEM/Get Played Get Paid: https://www.associationforelectronicmusic.org/initiatives/

This week we welcome Jesse Walden, who recently announced the launch of Variant Fund, which looks to support what he describes as “The Ownership Economy”. We discuss Jesse’s background as an artist manager, his early experiments with putting tools into artists hands to control the destiny of their work online, the opportunities that decentralised networks offer to help us transition from the centralised platform economy in music and culture more broadly, and how distributing ownership to users and artists can help us transition from atomised and individualist support systems like Patreon towards more ambitious collective, interdependent(!), models online and in real space.Mat and Jesse get really deep into some of these ideas, and if some of the technical speak is unfamiliar stick with us as we spend a lot of the conversation cycling back to hopefully demystify it. We hope you enjoy it and have a great week!LinksThe Ownership Economy: https://variant.fund/the-ownership-economy-crypto-and-consumer-software/MediaChain Labs: http://www.mediachain.io/Saga: https://fallowmedia.com/2015/dec/mat/Bitcoin: https://bitcoin.org/en/Ethereum: https://ethereum.org/en/Passion Economy and The Future of Work: https://a16z.com/2019/10/08/passion-economy/Media 2020: Rise of the Renaissance Creator: https://medium.com/@jarroddicker/media-2020-rise-of-the-renaissance-creator-459daec4bc6bDefector: https://defector.com/Foundation: https://withfoundation.com/Jonas Lund Token: https://jlt.ltd/

For the second part of our conversation series with contemporary fiction writers we are over the moon to have a chat with Elvia Wilk, who released her debut novel “Oval” last year to great acclaim.Oval is a beautiful book that depicts a world at vastly different scales, not least addressing the contemporary role of the artist as embedded in wider economic systems. We discuss how art communities in the shifting economic landscape of Berlin inspired some of the books themes, the increasingly entangled relationships between artists and corporations, the hyperstitional anxiety of seeing gestures from marginal scenes influence wider culture from your bedroom while also simultaneously feeling very little agency over the future, and how some of her writing related to machine learning takes on new dimension in the wake of OpenAI’s release of the GPT3 API.Thanks again for listening and have a great week :)LinksRead Oval - https://softskull.com/dd-product/oval/"My Kid Could Do That" - https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/my-kid-could-do-that/

For this episode we welcome academic and DJ Larisa Kingston Mann from Temple University in Philadelphia, whose work analyzes the relationship between law, technology, sovereignty and creativity, especially focusing on the ways changing media technologies affect communities’ ability to flourishHer PhD thesis “Rude Citizenship”, soon to be turned into a book, looks at the ways in which Jamaican popular music practices challenge the colonial underpinnings of copyright law and of sovereignty itself. We discuss the economics of Jamaican sound system culture, the sticky topic of copyright as a flawed protection for creators, and proposals for a fairer DJ economy.We had a few sound issues that we tried to clean up for this episode, and Larissa is a generous and fun guest. I hope you enjoy it and are having a great week!Thanks again for the support :)On Larisa's recommendation, we donated to support The Attic Youth Center in Philly. The Attic Youth Center is the only organization in Philadelphia exclusively serving lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and questioning (LGBTQ) youth. https://www.atticyouthcenter.org/LinksSonic Publics Booming at the Margins: Ethnic Radio, Intimacy, and Nonlinear Innovation in Media: https://ijoc.org/index.php/ijoc/article/view/8591White Faces in Intimate Spaces: Jamaican Popular Music in Global Circulation: https://academic.oup.com/ccc/article-abstract/9/2/266/3979315

Since the idea of this podcast first came to mind, we had imagined starting a thread of conversations with fiction authors and artists that in many ways touch on some of issues that we might be exploring in other conversations.Today we are thrilled to kick off this direction with a conversation with Tim Maughan, the author of Infinite Detail, winner of The Guardians best science fiction and fantasy book of 2019, and a gripping and prescient work that explores the simple question: what would happen if the internet stopped working?In this conversation we discuss sailing on a trade ship to China, the 21st century skills of reading how invisible networks dictate many aspects of our lives, conservatism and relevancy in science fiction, and how the book economy works, and could work better.Tim is a generous and funny guest, we hope you enjoy it! There is also a weird noise that occasionally appears on Tim's side, we tried to pull it out but it made the audio very muffled. Hope it isn't too distracting!Links!Buy Infinite Detail! https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374175412DRONEGOD$ manifesto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U7F5X84bj0

This week we talk to Director at PRS for music and Gomez songwriter Tom Gray, who, through the #brokenrecord hashtag and other advocacy work has been championing the need for reform the way that streaming services work, and reform copyright policy to better protect songwriters and producers.We discuss the case for user centric streaming over the current pro-rata payment model, what is was like to witness the transition from sales to streaming as a successful touring band, and how, at a time when the song is earning the least amount it has ever earned, the expenses to develop the songs are being placed on the songwriter and producer more than ever before by labels and streaming. There are also some stories that border on ASMR, Tom has by far the best microphone we have encountered doing the podcast so far.Links (if we ever mention anything in the pod you want a link to, leave a comment!)Tom on Twitter: https://twitter.com/mrtomgray?lang=enPRS: https://www.prsformusic.com/Ivors Academy: https://ivorsacademy.com/

In this episode we speak with Kate Crawford, founder of the AI Now Institute and professor who has spent the last decade studying the political implications of data systems, machine learning and artificial intelligence. We discuss the anatomy of AI systems and full ecosystem of human and material resources behind an Amazon echo, the need to develop an understanding of the exponential accumulation of power under platform capitalism, the use of AI systems in predictive policing and other controversial areas, and Kate’s parallel experience as an electronic musician.This episode ends rather abruptly as we got lost in conversation and Kate had to run, so forgive us for the atypical ending! Relevant Kate links:AI Now Institute: https://ainowinstitute.org/Anatomy of AI: https://anatomyof.ai/Links we raised:Stance Features of Youtube Celebrities by Katri Mustonen: https://jyx.jyu.fi/bitstream/handle/123456789/56988/1/URN%3ANBN%3Afi%3Ajyu-201802011411.pdf

In this episode we welcome David Turner, writer and founder of the Penny Fractions newsletter, which holds a critical and often political lens to the latest developments in the music industry.In this episode we discuss the music industry response to Black Lives Matter, positive infrastructural proposals that could lead to long lasting and meaningful diversification, the meme music economy, lessons from ad hoc protest gatherings and sitting on a small plane with Radiohead and Silento.David is a deeply thoughtful and fun guest, we hope you enjoy this one!LINKS:Penny Fractions newsletter (sign up!): https://www.getrevue.co/profile/pennyfractions/issues/penny-fractions-why-did-we-pause-the-show-255631Black Teens are Breaking the Internet and Seeing None of The Profits by Doreen St.Felix:https://www.thefader.com/2015/12/03/on-fleek-peaches-monroee-meechie-viral-vinesMusic Workers Alliance: https://musicworkersalliance.org/Aziz Mian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX9SsfK6B24Silentó - Watch Me (Whip/Nae Nae) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjW8wmF5VWc

In this episode we speak to Glen Weyl, author, economist and Principal Research at Microsoft Research. His ideas inspired the formation of the RadicalxChange Foundation, who recently held a conference in which we were speaking alongside Audrey Tang, Digital Minister of Taiwan, Vitalik Buterin of Ethereum and others. Head over to RadicalxChange.org and look out for the deep list of archived talks.In this very candid discussion with Glen we cover his recent work on COVID-19, his recently published essay “AI is an ideology, not a technology” co-authored with Jaron Lanier, his belief in the urgent need for pluralistic technologies and transitioning from corporations to stakeholder democracies, as well as his personal political transition from California libertarianism to socialism. It is a fun and generous conversation, I hope you enjoy it!Links:RadicalxChange conferencehttps://www.radicalxchange.org/2020-conference/AI is an Ideology not a Technologyhttps://www.wired.com/story/opinion-ai-is-an-ideology-not-a-technology/Data Dignity:https://issuu.com/radicalxchange/docs/data_legislation_paper_--_20191031

In this latest episode we talk with Professor Guy Standing, who has been at the forefront of Basic Income research for 30 years, running pilots all over the world. We discuss his original concept of “The Precariat”, a new class that might be familiar to many listeners, the moral case for a basic income and its fans in US politics and Silicon Valley, and his vision of a future of a new left built upon enlightenment principles. Links!Guy Standing: https://www.guystanding.com/Basic Income Earth Network: https://basicincome.org/The Precariat: https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-precariat-9781849664561/Plunder of the Commons: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308/308407/plunder-of-the-commons/9780141990620.html

In this episode we speak with the writer Liz Pelly, who over the past 5 years has written a series of revelatory critical pieces about the streaming economy for The Baffler.We discuss whether the distinction of Independence is all that useful in music at this point in history, take a look at the ways in which the streaming platforms flatter some kinds of music and have flattered to deceive for others, and question what the recent Spotify exclusivity deal with Joe Rogan might mean for musicians.This is a nice and long conversation, and we had one or two connection issues, so forgive us if you notice one or two jarring edits!Check out Liz's work online here:https://lizpelly.com/https://thebaffler.com/authors/liz-pelly

In this episode we talk with Jesse Engel, musician, Senior Research Scientist at Google Brain and creative lead of the Magenta project. Magenta is an open source research project exploring the role of machine learning as a tool in the creative process, developed by numerous researchers and engineers from the Google brain team, Google’s self directed machine intelligence group. Amongst many things we discuss the role and research focus of Magenta, look at how research lab OpenAI’s recent Jukebox project raised some necessary ethical debates around the puppeteering of living artists voices and styles, get psychedelic about how making music technology precedes spoken language, and discuss his latest exciting project.Check out the tools they have developed and reach out to Magenta here:https://magenta.tensorflow.org/If you would like to hear the full episode, consider supporting the project athttps://patreon.com/interdependence

In this episode we catch up with Trevor McFedries, founder of the meta media studio Brud ( (http://brud.fyi/) ), whose digital avatar artist and influencer Lil Miquela recently caused a stir through signing with one of the worlds premier talent agencies, CAA.We discuss the origins of the project, why he sees Miquela as more of a challenge to Mickey Mouse than human artists, and also some pretty bold ideas for how avatar led projects might help us reorganise the music industry to be more equitable.

We are joined by research scientist and Director of Spotify's CTRL lab François Pachet and his collaborator, the composer Benoit Carré to discuss how the latest in AI research offers a new paradigm for both composition and the concept of authorship and ownership.This will be one of many times we pursue conversations with researchers at the cutting edge of Artificial Intelligence and music, not only because it offers a glimpse into the future of music, but also the greater economy. Music is often the first to feel the tremors for greater economic earthquakes, so it feels like an important conversation to jump into!We can't play their music during the podcast, however we recommend that you check out these works in combination with listening to the conversation!Daddy's Car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSHZ_b05W7oThe Ballad of Mr.Shadow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcGYEXJqun8American Folk Songs EP: https://skyggewithai.bandcamp.com/"Black is the Color” by SKYGGE featuring Pete Seeger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=20&v=sv56kfvsQAM

If you are interested in reading Evgeny's new piece in the Guardian, visit:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/15/tech-coronavirus-surveilance-state-digital-disruptSign up to Evgeny's Syllabus project to receive a weekly syllabi curated around your interests:https://the-syllabus.com/If you would like to support this series, please visit:https://www.patreon.com/interdependence