In the Shadows of Utopia: The Khmer Rouge and the Cambodian Nightmare

Time Period Covered: 1971 – 1973How do you get out of a war without losing it?What did Nixon’s opening to China have to do with Vietnam?And how much of “peace” in 1972 was about diplomacy, and how much was about the election?In this episode, Lachlan examines the pivotal year of 1972. North Vietnam launches the Spring Offensive, the largest conventional campaign of the war, while American air power returns on a massive scale. At the same time, Nixon travels to Beijing and Moscow, reshaping the Cold War balance and strengthening his position at home.Behind the scenes, Henry Kissinger conducts secret negotiations in Paris. The Oval Office tapes reveal a colder logic: South Vietnam may not survive indefinitely, but if it lasts long enough, the United States can leave on its own terms. Cambodia, meanwhile, remains entangled in bombing, secrecy, and executive overreach, part of the same governing culture that produces Watergate.By January 1973, the Paris Peace Accords are signed. American prisoners are coming home. Nixon has won a landslide re-election on promises of peace.But the settlement leaves North Vietnamese troops in the South, freezes the battlefield in place, and offers no real solution for Cambodia.The war, in other words, is ending. Just not for everyone.Sources:Short Mao: The Man Who Built ChinaHastings Vietnam: An Epic TragedyMiller The Vietnam War: A Documentary ReaderVarious Recordings: Nixon Whitehouse 1971-2Shawcross Sideshow

In this extended interview, I’m joined by historian Matt Galway, author of Global Maoism, to unpack the intellectual, ideological, and historical foundations of Maoism and Cambodian communism.We begin with Galway’s academic background and how the Khmer Rouge became a central focus of his research, before moving into core Marxist concepts such as dialectics, contradiction, and why communists historically understood Marxism as a science rather than a belief system.From there, we turn to the Cambodian students in Paris, particularly Hou Yuon, examining the seriousness of their Marxist education, their intellectual commitments, and the long-term consequences of their ideological formation. We explore the “Three Ghosts,” the growing divide between intellectuals and the Khmer Rouge leadership, and how revolutionary paranoia hardened into purges.The conversation then widens to Maoism itself: the Chinese Cultural Revolution, Maoism’s distinctive features compared to orthodox Marxism-Leninism, and how Maoism evolved into a flexible, exportable revolutionary model. We conclude by discussing communism as a quasi-religious system, touching on Pol Pot, Buddhism, and how revolutionary ideology functioned in Democratic Kampuchea.

Check out my visit to M13 at YouTube or https://www.patreon.com/Time Period Covered: 1971 - 1972Why would someone join the Khmer Rouge?How would people view the parts of the country that were now being run by the communists?What was M13 and why is it so important?In this episode, Lachlan returns to discuss one of the most invaluable insights into the proto-type regime of Democratic Kampuchea and the countryside control of the Khmer Rouge. Ith Sarin's Regrets for the Khmer Soul, a detailed account of life under the communists for nine months which wasn't as damning as some might think.This is in sharp contrast to another memoir of life under the regime recalled from this very same time period, the account of Francois Bizot's The Gate, in which he explains his time imprisoned at M13, the jungle-based prototype of Tuol Sleng.Woven through these two sides of the story is the evolution of the Khmer Rouge into a group taking over the functions of running a state, and employing the blueprint of revolution they had decided upon on the Cambodian population they controlled -- which numbered in the millions.Sources:David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Philip Short Pol PotIth Sarin Regrets for the Khmer Soul (available at https://www.mekongriverpress.com/)Francois Bizot The GateECCC Testimony Kang Gek Iev (Duch)Henri Locard Jungle Heart of the Khmer RougeNorodom Sihanouk My War with the CIABen Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to PowerSophal Ear The Khmer Rouge Cannon (Phd Thesis)Ian Harris Buddhism Under Pol PotAlex Hinton Why Did They Kill?

This episode is a follow-up to the two-hour discussion I had with historian Henri Locard. The video of that full conversation is available for free on Patreon right here (or just go to https://www.patreon.com/shadowsofutopia) - no sign up required.Henri Locard is a prominent scholar of the Khmer Rouge, he testified as an expert witness at the ECCC, and has written extensively on the subject. Most notably Pol Pot's Little Red Book, a collection of the slogans used by the Khmer Rouge, and most recently, Jungle Heart of the Khmer Rouge, a biography of Phi Phuon, Pol Pot's Jarai bodyguard. He also has an upcoming book about the extent of the Khmer Rouge prison system that he is looking to find a publisher for.Unlike last time, in our 'discussion', the focus is tighter. I ask Henri four main questions, particularly the ones that we hadn't got to last time, and while he still drifts a little in his answers (as he does), this is a more concentrated exchange that digs deep into how he sees Cambodia’s past and present.We talk about the meaning of the “Super Great Leap Forward,” the myths of the so-called “hydraulic city” and how they shaped Khmer Rouge policy, the true extent of the regime’s prison system (which Henri argues was more than three times what the ECCC has documented), and finally, what he believes is the single best book written about the Khmer Rouge.Henri has a habit of challenging accepted ideas about Cambodian history, but not in the revisionist way of minimizing the regime’s crimes. He re-examines long-held assumptions, particularly about just how widespread the brutality of the Khmer Rouge was. What makes his perspective powerful is his deep, lived connection to the country, and his long study of how the Khmer Rouge prison network worked. And as you’ll hear, the conversation begins in one place, loops back around, and then veers in an unexpected direction by the end.

You've seen The Killing Fields, you probably know that Haing Ngor, who played Dith Pran in the film won an oscar. You might also know that he was murdered in Los Angeles. But the version of that story you've known for years... isn't true.Patricia Nunan, or MP, is a veteran journalist who has worked for a variety of well regarded institutions. She is now tackling the murder of Haing Ngo - completely challenging the narrative that I had assumed was completely sorted since the late 90's.I urge you to subsribe to Who Killed Haing Ngor - Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1tKU5RgGYYrw71iGj7Q9s4Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/who-killed-haing-ngor/id1674928262Website: https://www.whokilledhaingngor.com/Instagram: who_killed_haing_ngor

This is an episode that could be listened to if you’d like, or if you’d prefer to watch it (without ads!) then head to https://patreon.com/shadowsofutopia and watch it for free, no sign ups, no obligations. It's a nice pleasant video, and just one click away.In this bonus episode, I sit down to go through and explain an interview I recently conducted with an ex-Khmer Rouge doctor, who we will refer to as ‘uncle’. He lived through the events that we have been covering so extensively in the last few episodes of the podcast, the start of the war, Sihanouk’s call for his people to join the resistance against Lon Nol, the Vietnamese communists fighting in Cambodia, and training to become a Khmer Rouge doctor in their primary hospital during the civil war - and then going on to be become a surgeon in Phnom Penh during the regime’s time in power.While he obviously has certain biases, and beliefs, about what the Khmer Rouge were, what went wrong, and why… This is still a fascinating piece of history to contend with. Hearing from the Khmer Rouge themselves about what they felt they were trying to accomplish, as well as his own thoughts about communism, and that he felt that nothing was going wrong in the country - until 1977. He did not blame Pol Pot, but, like many Khmer Rouge, he instead blamed ‘factions’, bad actors, saboteurs, and those who were colluding with the Vietnamese.We get a very one sided view of the story here, and I put it into context for you, and challenge the views that this Khmer Rouge doctor had come to believe about their war, their time in power, and who was really responsible for what happened.I must extend a deep gratitude to Chhay Lim, who organised this trip, and organised contacts for me to be able to speak with.

In this bonus podcast episode, I’ve invited veteran journalist Jim Laurie to reflect on a lifetime spent amid global upheaval. From the Nixon incursion into Cambodia to the oblivious tranquility of Phnom Penh before war erupted—Laurie shares his remarkable memories, including a poignant love story with a local woman, a comparison between the wars in Saigon and Cambodia, and the shock of revisiting Cambodia in 1979 to find destruction everywhere.This episode is enhanced by visuals, including archival footage, that bring his narrative powerfully to life. If you have the opportunity to watch on YouTube, you’ll gain an even richer experience.Watch it at https://youtu.be/hBSejgATaB8

What was the political fallout from Lon Nol's Stroke?How did race and religion become such a key theme of his regime?What led to the worst military defeat of the Cambodian Civil War?Time Period Covered: March - December 1971In this episode, Lon Nol returns to Cambodia after recoving from a mild stroke in Hawaii. While many hoped he might step aside, and that the US might provoke a change in leadership, Lon Nol remained in power. His little brother's influence grew, and his obsession with race and religion became even more pronounced. Amongst the Vietnam War playing out on Cambodian land, the carnage of American bombs became a regular occurrence. Meanwhile, politics in Phnom Penh leaned toward a military dictatorship. By the end of the year, the Khmer Republic had to face its worst military defeat, one that it would not recover from.Check out www.shadowsofutopia.com/episodes/ for maps and diagramsSources:Wilfred Deac The Road to the Killing FieldsCraig Etcheson The Rise and Demise of Democratic KampucheaSat Sutsakhan The Khmer Republic at WarElizabeth Becker When The War Was OverDavid Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian HistoryHenry Kamm Report From a Stricken Land

In this episode, I talk with journalist and author Sebastian Strangio about the border tensions between Cambodia and Thailand that have escalated in July 2025. Sebastian is the Southeast Asia editor at The Diplomat and one of the region’s leading journalists. He’s a former reporter at the Phnom Penh Post, and the author of Hun Sen’s Cambodia (re-released as Cambodia: From Pol Pot to Hun Sen and Beyond) and In the Dragon’s Shadow, a study of China’s growing influence in Southeast Asia. We start with the political figure who has shaped Cambodia for decades, Hun Sen, and trace how his rise from Khmer Rouge defector to Prime Minister led to the creation of a powerful political dynasty. We then look at the handover of power to his son, Hun Manet, and what that has meant for Cambodian politics in the last two years. From there, we shift focus to Thailand and explore the structure of Thai politics today. Who holds power? How have coups and party shifts shaped its modern system? And how does that compare to Cambodia’s more centralized model? This helps us understand one of the key triggers of the current crisis: a leaked phone call between Hun Sen and former Thai Prime Minister Paetongtarn Shinawatra. We then move into the border dispute itself. We look at the long history of territorial claims, colonial-era maps, and temple flashpoints like Preah Vihear and Ta Moan. And we ask how this latest confrontation fits into broader patterns of nationalism, political theatre, and regional rivalry. Finally, we explore what role public opinion and media narratives are playing on both sides of the border.

Hello everyone, I've put together a quick look at the long history of the Thai Cambodia border dispute to compliment what I'm sure many of you are reading and watching in newspapers and on television. The escalation is far from good, and I hope it simmers down back to - as I'll discuss - a normal state of not-quite-peaceful.I cover the history from 900 CE to 2025, and everything from the 1794 retrocession of Battambang, the Franco-Thai War, Sihanouks ICJ case in 1962, Khmer Rouge border clashes and spies, to the more recent disputes about Preah Vihear.Much of this is based off of a recent bonus episode I made for Patreon, so for those that have listened to that, apologies for some of the overlap.www.shadowsofutopia.com/support

How did the Khmer Republic try to take back control of Cambodia? Time Period Covered: June 1970 - January 1971 In this episode, we follow the Lon Nol government as it attempts to prove that the Khmer Republic can fight and win. After the initial chaos of the coup and the brief U.S. incursion, Cambodia’s leaders launch their first large-scale offensive: Operation Chenla I. We look at how the Cambodians, with American and South Vietnamese support, attempt to open Route 6, retake lost territory, and secure the Lon Nol strategy. Please see this link for Chenla Offensive Visuals and Maps: https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/episodes/the-khmer-republic-chenla-one Sources: Wilfred Deac The Road to the Killing Fields Craig Etcheson The Rise and Demise of Democratic Kampuchea Sat Sutsakhan The Khmer Republic at War Various New York Times Articles June 1970 CBS News September 4 1970 Ros Sereysothea (song) David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Henry Kamm Report From a Stricken Land Haing Ngor Surival in the Killing Fields Presidential Briefings 1970 (CIA reading room) Lon Nol - Nixon Correspondance (Office of the Historian)

Why was Duch released from prison on April 3rd, 1970? How did Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge transition from small guerrilla enclaves to administering huge areas of Cambodia? What exactly was “Independence Mastery,” and why was it so central to the Khmer Rouge mindset? Time Period Covered: April 1970 – July 1971 In this episode, we pivot from Lon Nol’s takeover to the Cambodian communist perspective, exploring how Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge navigated the chaotic months following the coup. We follow Duch’s unexpected release from prison, track Pol Pot’s return journey from Beijing and Hanoi, and see how the Khmer Rouge began absorbing millions of Cambodians into so-called “liberated zones.” Along the way, we delve into the principle of Independence Mastery, the uneasy alliance with the Vietnamese, and the early precursor to S-21 known as M-13. We also uncover the paranoid mindset driving the Khmer Rouge’s suspicion of outside influence, including alleged assassination plots and forced confessions, shadows of the horror to come. Remember, if you can, to please support the show at www.shadowsofutopia.com/support. Sources: Chandler - Tragedy of Cambodian History and Voices From S21 Short - Pol Pot Kiernan - How Pol Pot Came To Power ECCC Archives - Duch Trial 2009 Heder - Cambodian Communism and the Vietnamese Model Edwards - Cambodge Harris - Buddhism Under Pol Pot

Why did Nixon invade Cambodia in May 1970?What impact did the 'Cambodian Incursion' have on the war in Vietnam?How did this effect Cambodia?Time Period Covered: May - June 1970In part two of our discussion about the situation in Cambodia after the coup which pushed Sihanouk from power, we see how the Nixon Whitehouse responded to the crisis facing Cambodia.Lachlan asks whether the decision that Nixon and Kissinger made was the right one, or whether there was a correct answer. We look at the circumstances which brought about the decision, what options were on the table, and the impact that Nixon's speech which announced the 'incursion' had. Then we look at the 'Cambodia Campaign' itself, discussing the fighting which overtakes much of the country, and the outcomes this had in the short, and long term.Remember, if you can, to please support the show at www.shadowsofutopia.com/supportSources: Chandler “Tragedy of Cambodian History”Short “Pol Pot”Shawcross “Sideshow”Kamm “Report from a Stricken Land”Sak Satsukhan “The Khmer Republic at War”Wilfred Deac “Road to the Killing Fields”Walter Isaacson “Kissinger”Kiernan “How Pol Pot Came to Power”Etcheson “Rise and Demise of Democratic Kampuchea”James Sterba "G.I's in Cambodia" (New York Times)

What was the crisis facing the new Cambodian Government in April 1970? Why were the Vietnamese communities subjected to massacres? What circumstances led to a US invasion into Cambodia? Time Period Covered: April 1970 In this episode Lachlan explores the horrible aftermath of the coup against Sihanouk, a panicked new regime produced a pogrom against an innocent group of civilians. The Communist Vietnamese armies take much of the countryside. Journalists disappear as they report on the Vietnam War which had spilled over the border. The Nixon Whitehouse faces a decision. Apologies for the abrupt ending, part two is basically done and will be out soon! Please consider supporting the show at https://www.patreon.com/shadowsofutopia Check out https://www.mekongriverpress.com/mekong-river-press Sources Chandler “Tragedy of Cambodian History” Short “Pol Pot” Shawcross “Sideshow” Kamm “Report from a Stricken Land” Sak Satsukhan “The Khmer Republic at War” Wilfred Deac “Road to the Killing Fields” Walter Isaacson “Kissinger” Kiernan “How Pol Pot Came to Power” Etcheson “Rise and Demise of Democratic Kampuchea”

Lachlan takes you back through the more than 30 hours of Season 2's storyline that took us through 15 years of Cambodian history. Support the show at https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

Were the CIA responsible for the coup against Sihanouk? Why did Lon Nol and Sirik Matak finally make a move against the prince? What did Sihanouk’s removal from power mean for the Khmer Rouge? Time Period Covered 1969 - 1970 In the final episode of this season, Lachlan covers the circumstances that surround the plot to remove Norodom Sihanouk from his position as head of state. Lon Nol and Sirik Matak will take advantage of the problem of Vietnamese troop presence on Cambodian land and turn it into a political necessity to oust the Prince. They would make several miscalculations which would mean that this plan would largely backfire, as Sihanouk joins a resistance front with who he thinks are the Khmer Rouge, as well as the Vietnamese and recieving Chinese aid. Lon Nol’s new government will have to resort to terrible measures to try and deliver on their promises. Please consider supporting the show at https://www.patreon.com/shadowsofutopia Sources Chandler “Tragedy of Cambodian History” and “Brother Number One” Short “Pol Pot” Shawcross “Sideshow” Heder “Cambodian Communism” Sihanouk “My War With The CIA” Osbourne “Sihanouk” Jagel “Khmer Nationalist” Haing Ngor “Survival in the Killing Fields” Kamm “Report from a Stricken Land”

How did Cambodia become the ‘key’ to Nixon’s plan to end the Vietnam War? What was the secret bombing of Cambodia? How many bombs did the US drop on Cambodia? What factors led to the end of Sihanouk’s leadership of the country? Time Period Covered 1968 - 1969 In this episode Lachlan looks at the gradually degrading situation in Cambodia, and the destabilization prior to a change in the Whitehouse that will only make matters worse. We look at Sihanouk’s movies, the Cambodian economy, and the Khmer Rouge as they continue their ‘armed struggle’ across the country. Nixon’s ascension to power in the USA is explored, his plans for a quick end to the Vietnam War, and the role that Cambodia could play in producing this. Bombing, done in secret, is explained, as well as some comments on the general discourse around the idea of ‘bombs over Cambodia’. Check out the YouTube Channel at https://youtu.be/8QdRvpbMr_w?si=vTEurMs6dDEmjjHI Sources Short “Pol Pot” Chandler “Tragedy of Cambodian History” Shawcross “Sideshow” Mark Atwood Lawrence “Concise History of the Vietnam War” Kiernan “How Pol Pot Came To Power” Osbourne “Sihanouk” Heder “Cambodian Communism and the Vietnamese Model” Article Links https://quillette.com/2023/12/07/kissinger-and-cambodia/ https://gsp.yale.edu/case-studies/cambodian-genocide-program/us-involvement/united-states-bombing-cambodia-1965-1973 Support https://www.patreon.com/shadowsofutopia

How many journalists were able to set foot in Cambodia before the revolution, during the revolution and after the revolution? Not many. Elizabeth Becker is one of those people. In 1973 she began covering the war in Cambodia, in 1978 she was part of a three person delegation which saw the first western journalists to enter into Democratic Kampuchea. There she was witness to, as she describes it a "Twilight Zone" version of Cambodia. She also met Pol Pot. The end of her trip ended in tragedy as one member of the delegation was murdered the same night. A fictionalised version of that story is the subject of Rithy Panh's new film Rendez-vous avec Pol Pot, and I got to speak to Elizabeth about her newest book "You Don't Belong Here", as well as her story and work in Cambodia, witnessing the effects of the 1973 US bombing campaign, her tour of Democratic Kampuchea and much more. Please Note At the beginning of the interview, Elizabeth references a review by David Chandler from 1987 and what it meant to hear this critique in the Khmer Rouge Tribunals. She also gives her reasoning behind why she thinks that criticism was given. I had failed to mention to her before the interview or at the time that I had worked with David previously, which I regret. However, I feel it is necessary to mention that Chandler had later recommended "When the War Was Over" in his 'top five books' that someone should read about Cambodia. This was amongst high praise and the reasons he gave for his initially critical review in the late 80s: "She manages to tell the dramatic sides, the painful aspects, she builds up a very clear and moving picture. She worked in Cambodia in the early 1970s so she got a feel for the country, she understood what had been damaged and how people were affected. It is a very effective book and I believe that it will stand up to the test of time. I had reservations initially because she wasn’t an insider, and like so many writers she goes into the story through the dark side of the Khmers, the spooky nature of the land and people- in this way foreshadowing Philip Short. I don’t buy into that at all. It’s a small reservation I have, but otherwise this is a wonderful book." That recommendation can be found at https://fivebooks.com/best-books/best-books-cambodia/ Please visit https://www.patreon.com/shadowsofutopia to watch the video of the interview.

What role does the Tet Offensive play in the My Lai Massacre? What circumstances in troop deployment and officer training influenced what happened? Why were more than 500 civilians murdered by Charlie Company? Time Period Covered December 1967 - March 1968 In this episode, Lachlan confronts the horrors that occurred in My Lai on the 16th of March 1968. He attempts to answer why more than 500 civilians were killed, what the context of these killings were, as well as the role that officers such as William Calley had in producing the My Lai Massacre. Please visit https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html For Photos and Maps of the My Lai Assault please visit https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/episodes/tet-part-two-the-my-lai-massacre ** Be advised of a mistake in the episode. Hugh Thompson did not receive the "Medal of Honour", but a US Army Soldier's Medal. I meant this as a generality but forgot there is a genuine "Congressional Medal of Honour". Apologies. ** Sources The Peers Inquiry of the Massacre at My Lai 1970 Edward Miller The Vietnam War: A Documentary Reader William Thomas Allison My Lai The Vietnam War Geoffrey War and Ken Burns The Vietnam War Mark Atwood Lawrence Anatomy of US and South Korean Massacres In the Year of the Monkey Heonik Kwon

Lachlan sits down with Matt Madden, translator of Chan Samoeun’s Prisoners of Class. The book, having been recently released in English for the first time, is an amazing example of a Khmer Rouge survivor memoir. They discuss Matt’s journey in finding the original book, meeting the author and translating it over many years. The book itself, including amazing details and descriptions of the world of the ‘life slave’ in Democratic Kampuchea, are discussed and thought about, as well as the contributions to the work that Matt has produced. Please go out and get yourself a copy of the book, the best place to do so is from https://www.mekongriverpress.com/ where you can preview the book, get access to the supplementary material, as well as purchase various editions. Please take the time to leave a rating or review wherever you get it from!

What did the Tet offensive achieve? How was the Battle of Hue waged? Why were almost 3000 people murdered by the Viet Cong? Time Period Covered 1968 This episode covers the Tet Offensive of early 1968. Lachlan links the media coverage of the event, with the extreme scenes in Saigon, to the reality of the offensive and what the communists hoped to achieve. In Hue, perhaps the most stunning battle of the offensive took place, as for four weeks the city was occupied by the NVA and NLF. During this time, as a brutal campaign of house-to-house combat took place, the communists embarked upon a reign of terror to reshape the city they had taken, at least 2800 civilians were murdered. Sources Edward Miller The Vietnam War: A Documentary Reader Nha Ca Mourning Headband For Hue The Vietnam War Geoffrey War and Ken Burns The Vietnam War Mark Atwood Lawrence Vietnam Max Hastings The Viet-Cong Strategy of Terror Douglas Pike Hue Mark Bowden

How did the CPK develop their plan to genuinely start a war in Cambodia?Why did Sihanouk seek rapprochment with the United States?How did the bombing of Cambodia begin?Time Period Covered 1967-1968January 1968 will prove to be a pivotal month for the Vietnamese, Cambodian and American interests in the war. This episode details how the Cambodian communist movement finally began an armed struggle against the Sihanouk government. How the United States negotiated a deal to bomb Cambodia, and how the Vietnamese began a counter attack against the Saigon regime.SourcesPhilip Short Pol Pot: History of a NightmareDavid Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History & Brother Number OneBen Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to Power and Peasants & Politics in KampucheaMilton Osbourne SihanoukSteve Heder Cambodian Communism and the Vietnamese ModelElizabeth Becker When the War was OverNic Dunlop Lost ExecutionerECCC Case 001 Witness Testimony 2009Shawcross Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon, and the Destruction of CambodiaCIA FOIA

What led to Mao's launching of a 'cultural revolution' in the People's Republic?What were the aims of this movement?Why did perhaps a million people die at the hands of their countrymen in less than four years?Time Period Covered 1964 - 1969In what could be considered a belated "Part Two" to the episode introducing Maoism and the Great Leap Forward, Lachlan revisits China and attempts to explain the "Cultural Revolution". Officially launched in 1966, this period of chaos, an example of a cult of personality being used to destroy a system and replace it with a kind of perpetual revolution, would lead China into a near state of anarchy. Radical young Maoists, organised into groups of "Red Guards" terrorised those that they considered to be sufficiently counter to the ideological mandate set by Mao. Philip Short MaoFrank Dikotter The Cultural Revolution: A People's HistoryAndrew Walder China Under MaoRichard Baum Lecture Series

Special guest Matthew Jagel joins Lachlan to talk about his new book: Khmer Nationalist. The book is an exploration of Cambodian history using Son Ngoc Thanh as the central focus, and they join up to talk about Cambodian nationalism, the influence of Imperial Japan, Sihanouk's antagonism, the Khmer Serei and the CIA. Visit https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501769337/khmer-nationalist/ to purchase the book or find Matthew on social media at https://twitter.com/matthew_jagel?s=20 or listen to Matthew's podcast "Napalm in the Morning" on Itunes and Spotify.Visit www.shadowsofutopia.com/support to contribute to the show.

What was the Samlaut Rebellion, and how did it start?Who was responsible for this outbreak of violence?What leads to Khieu Samphan disappearing over night?Time Period Covered 1967In the first part of an explanation of how the Cambodian Civil War begins, Lachlan looks into the circumstances which lead to an outbreak of violence in the province of Battambang. Then on April 2, 1967, a series of murders turns into a genuine eruption of peasant unrest and government reprisal; the Samlaut Rebellion. But who started it? Was it the Khmer Rouge as Sihanouk thinks - and just who are these Cambodian communists in his eyes? Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a NightmareDavid Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History & Brother Number OneBen Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to Power and Peasants & Politics in KampucheaMilton Osbourne SihanoukSteve Heder Cambodian Communism and the Vietnamese ModelElizabeth Becker When the War was OverNic Dunlop Lost ExecutionerECCC Case 001 Witness Testimony 2009

How does the "Vietnam War" begin?How did the Communist Party of Kampuchea (CPK) get its name?Why did Sihanouk start making so many movies in the 1960's?Time Period Covered 1964 - 1967In this episode, Lachlan revisits Vietnam as LBJ wages war upon the North and the Viet Cong. Pol Pot leaves the jungle to visit Hanoi, and Beijing, and changes the direction of Khmer Communism. Meanwhile, in Cambodia, Sihanouk begins losing his magic touch as various quarters become less enamoured with his policies. The Cambodian Civil War approaches, as the war in Vietnam begins to spread.SourcesPhilip Short Pol Pot: History of a NightmareDavid Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History & Brother Number OneBen Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to PowerMilton Osbourne SihanoukSteve Heder Cambodian Communism and the Vietnamese ModelEdward Miller The Vietnam WarMark Atwood Lawrence A Concise History of the Vietnam WarDemocratic Kampuchea Livre Noir

Who was Nuon Chea?What does Buddhism have to do with Khmer Rouge ideology?Why did Sihanouk sever ties with the United States? Time Period Covered 1963 - 1965In this episode we explore the impact of the fateful year of 1963 in Cambodia, as well as the circumstances that the new Cambodian communist leadership were dealing with in the Vietnamese jungle. We also look at the difference between two influential future leaders of Democratic Kampuchea; Khieu Samphan and Nuon Chea, as they play quite different roles for the organisation.This episode also explores the relationship between Theravada Buddhist language, grammar and thought and the way this was utilised by the Khmer Rouge to transplant communist ideas into Cambodian minds. Finally, the episode concludes by explaining the reasons surrounding Sihanouk's distancing from the US and eventual cutting off of US aid and relations between the two countries.SourcesPhilip Short Pol Pot: History of a NightmareDavid Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History & Brother Number OneBen Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to PowerMilton Osbourne SihanoukSteve Heder Cambodian Communism and the Vietnamese ModelNorodom Sihanouk My War with the CIAAlex Hinton Why Did They Kill?Show Contenthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/dramatis-personae.html

What is Agent Orange and why did the Kennedy Administration decide to use it? How did Diem's Regime collapse? What was the Buddhist Crisis?Time Period Covered 1961 - 1963In the final part of our exploration into the beginnings of the "Vietnam War", we look at the circumstances surrounding the early Kennedy years and how a 'prudent' approach to South Vietnam resulted in a number of problems, both immediate and in the future. We look in depth at Operation Ranch Hand, the decision to use defoliants in South Vietnam, as well as how the Diem Regime becomes a no longer viable partner for the US and their wider strategic interests. We explain the Buddhist Crisis and the self-immolation of Quang Duc and the competing visions of a new South Vietnam. Finally the coup against Diem, Kennedy's assassination as well as the return of Pol Pot to the jungles of Vietnam represents a new chapter in the coming historical hurricane.SourcesChristopher Goscha Vietnam: A New HistoryFredrick Logevall The Embers of WarEdward Miller The Vietnam War & Reinterpreting the Buddhist Crisis (Modern Asian Studies November 2015)Neil Sheehan The Pentagon PapersGeoffrey Warner The United States and Vietnam 1945-1965 (International Affairs October 1972)William Buckingham The US Air Force and Herbicides in Southeast AsiaShow Contenthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/dramatis-personae.htmlSupporthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

How did a succession of US administrations become stuck in Vietnam? How did Diem's policies create the conditions for insurgency? What did the early activities of the NLF look like?Time Period Covered 1954 - 1961In part two of our exploration of the path to the Second Indochina War, we focus on early American efforts to create a stable regime in South Vietnam. The activities of the CIA and Edward Lansdale in the aftermath of Geneva are used to introduce this relationship, as well as the growing realisation in some quarters that perhaps Diem was not the best person for the job of leading the country. We look at the 'paradox' of Vietnam, why escalation slowly continued in the face of private doubts. NLF operations in the Mekong Delta are discussed from the point of view of those staging these actions, as well as those civilians who were effected by the authoritarianism of Diem and the intimidating tactics of those that wished to overthrow him. SourcesChristopher Goscha Vietnam: A New HistoryFredrick Logevall The Embers of WarEdward Miller The Vietnam WarNeil Sheehan The Pentagon PapersGeoffrey Warner The United States and Vietnam 1945-1965 (International Affairs October 1972)Show Contenthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/dramatis-personae.htmlSupporthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

What occurred in a divided Vietnam in the aftermath of the Geneva Accords? How did so many die during the North Vietnamese “Land Reform Campaign”? Why was South Vietnam described as an ‘emerging fascist state’?Time Period Covered 1954 - 1963In this first part of a kind of mini-series on the origins of the Vietnam War, Lachlan investigates the state building in the divided Vietnam. Exploring the ideology and benefactors of the separate regimes, we touch upon the thousands of those who died during the efforts to revolutionise the North – as well as similarly draconian methods to consolidate power in the hands of one family in the South. SourcesChristopher Goscha Vietnam: A New HistoryBen Kiernan Viet NamEdward Miller The Vietnam WarAlec Holcombe Mass Mobilisation in the Democratic Republic of VietnamShow Contenthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/dramatis-personae.htmlSupport https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

How did Pol Pot become leader of the Khmer Rouge? What did prominent communists like Khieu Samphan do in Sihanouk’s Cambodia?Were there limits to Sihanouk’s power and tightrope act? Time Period Covered 1960-1963We begin with a reflection on how Cambodian history can permeate even seemingly mundane spaces, before looking in on a secret communist seminar led by the new leader of the Khmer Rouge. This episode functions as a revisit of some loose ends left as the Cambodian communists began taking their own steps toward having an independent movement from the Vietnamese, as well as how the roles in that party began taking shape. We learn about the mysterious death of Tuo Samouth, as well as the circumstances that precede the vitally important year of 1963.Apologies for some audio hiccups, this one was recorded in a different location. Sources Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History, Brother Number One, A History of CambodiaBen Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to Power Milton Osbourne SihanoukElizabeth Becker When the War was OverNorodom Sihanouk My War with the CIAShow Contenthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/dramatis-personae.htmlSupporthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

Why was one of the most prominent slogans of the Khmer Rouge about a "super great leap forward"?What is Maoism and why did the People's Republic of China provide a new ideological source for the world?Why did the USSR and the PRC split in the 1960s?Time Period Covered 1949 - 1962This episode could be considered the third instalment in the history of communist ideology of the series. Lachlan discusses the Chinese Civil War, the People's Republic of China, Mao, Maoism, the circumstances surrounding the Great Leap Forward and it's terrible consequences. This is a brief explanation of the 45 million deaths that occurred in China as a result of government policy. The Chinese communists will provide the Khmer Rouge not only with material and economic aid once they come to power, but also with an ideological framework - a program - that the Cambodians will seek to recapitulate. This is an explanation of that program, as well as another hugely important factor in the coming chaos in Indochina, the ideological schism between the USSR and the PRC known as the Sino-Soviet Split.SourcesPhilip Short MaoJulia Lovell Maoism: A Global HistoryRichard Baum The Fall and Rise of ChinaFrank Dikotter Mao's Great Famine

How does the Communist Party of Kampuchea form? How does Saloth Sar become a married man and teacher? What are the consequences of Sihanouk’s neutral foreign policy? Time Period Covered 1955-1960 As peace broke out over Cambodia in the wake of the First Indochina War, the fledgling communist movement had to learn to survive in a newly independent country under the rule of Prince Norodom Sihanouk. Numbers dwindling and unable to openly resist the government, the ‘revolutionary organisation’, as they began calling themselves, found an avenue for recruits in the schools of Phnom Penh. The man who would become Pol Pot became a teacher. Meanwhile, in an attempt to navigate a neutral path for Cambodia in the Cold War era, Sihanouk opens relations with China as well as the United States. This agenda will have consequences, as the CIA begins trying to undermine his government and even seek his removal. The resulting “Bangkok Plot”, a series of conspiracies against him, will be explained. The Khmer Rouge, as Sihanouk had begun calling the communists in his country, will also meet to discuss a new kind of organisation - the Communist Party of Kampuchea. Saloth Sar, Nuon Chea and Ieng Sary will all find themselves in high-ranking positions as the seeds of their revolution are sewn. Sources Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History, Brother Number One Ben Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to Power Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Elizabeth Becker When the War was Over Norodom Sihanouk My War with the CIA Peter Froberg Idling Song for an Approaching Storm Craig Etcheson Overview of Hierarchy of Democratic Kampuchea Show Content https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/dramatis-personae.html

This bonus episode is for those who would like to remind themselves of the topics covered in the first season of the podcast, or for new listeners who might want a simple overview of Cambodian history as it relates to the rise and fall of the Khmer Rouge. This is an introduction to the themes of the series as a whole, the aims of the podcast, the Khmer Empire, the conditions relating to Cambodia's modernity and the French colonial period. The growth of nationalism, the events of the Second World War and efforts toward independence, including the early stages of a Cambodian communist movement are also revisited.SupportInterview

How does the First Indochina War end? What do the Geneva Accords mean for Cambodia? Who wins the 1955 Cambodian general election? Time Period Covered December 1953 – July 1955 Cambodia faces Viet Minh assaults around the country as the First Indochina War comes to its climax, but the French will suffer their most stunning defeat at Dien Bien Phu. World powers will convene to find a solution to the conflict. The resulting ‘peace’ will marginalise the Cambodian communist movement at the expense of the Vietnamese one, and Sihanouk will create a new political movement. Google Maps View of Dien Bien Phu Support the show Sources Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Ben Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to Power Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Christopher Goscha Vietnam: A New History

How does Cambodian Independence day originate in November 1953? What does the First Indochina War look like in Cambodia? How does a young Pol Pot 'join the maquis'? Time Period Covered January – December 1953 This episode explains the actions of King Sihanouk that one French General declared were ‘that of a madman, but a madman of genius’. Almost out of the blue the Cambodian king will claim independence for his country and end almost a century of French colonial rule. Meanwhile, the First Indochina War will bring its ruin to the Cambodian countryside and Saloth Sar will join the communist struggle against the French in the jungles. Sources Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Christopher Goscha Vietnam A New History Ben Kiernan Viet Nam Edward Miller ​The Vietnam War Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

How did the First Indochina War become part of the Cold War? When did the Khmer students studying in Paris become communists? What influenced Saloth Sar to become a revolutionary? Time Period Covered 1947-1953 This episode explains the way that the first ‘Vietnam War’ began developing into something recognisably part of the Cold War. We also trace the path of the young Pol Pot as his studies in Paris become influenced by a rising influence of communism. Cambodian politics and the return of Son Ngoc Thanh will produce a change in the rule of King Sihanouk, and the early developments of what will be the Khmer Rouge’s ideology begin taking shape. The Viet Minh dissolve the 'Indochinese Communist Party' into discrete parties based on national lines, and the Khmer People's Revolutionary Party is formed - the organisation that will eventually become the Communist Party of Kampuchea and the Khmer Rouge. Sources ​Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Ben Kiernan ​How Pol Pot Came to Power Edward Miller ​The Vietnam War Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

Craig Etcheson is currently visiting scientist at Harvard’s TH Chan School of Public Health, and he was a founder of the Documentation Centre of Cambodia, he has been studying the Khmer Rouge regime for more than thirty years. He worked as an investigator of the prosecution at the ECCC between 2006-2012, and testified at the tribunal as an expert witness. He recently published a book titled "Extraordinary Justice: Law, Politics, and the Khmer Rouge Tribunals" and in this conversation we get into some of the complexities involved in this ‘experiment’ as he puts it, including the shortcomings of the tribunal, government interference, as well as the status of the cases still being heard.

What does the anti-colonial scene look like in Cambodia? Who are the Khmer Issarak and how do nationalists and young Cambodian students relate to this movement as well as the growing war in Vietnam with the returning French? Time Period Covered 1945 - 1950 Saloth Sar, the young Pol Pot, will arrive in Paris in October 1949. In this episode we trace the path that he takes to get there, as well as the very important developments in Cambodian and world history that are taking place at this time. Resistance to French colonialism takes the shape of the 'Khmer Issarak' in Cambodia, a banner which includes many different groups and figures - some open to communist ideology and some staunch nationalists. Leaders such as Dap Chhuon, Prince Chantaraingsey, Puth Chhay and Son Ngoc Minh are discussed, as well as the circumstances around the beginning of the First Indochina War. Meanwhile, Saloth Sar is introduced to communist ideology in Paris, and a group of students including Ieng Sary, Thioun Mumm, Keng Vannsak and more will organise themselves along Marxist inspired politics. Sources Philip Short Pol Pot: History of a Nightmare David Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History Milton Osbourne Sihanouk Christopher Goscha Vietnam A New History Ben Kiernan Viet Nam Edward Miller ​The Vietnam War Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

What is the Umbrella Revolt in Cambodia? How do nationalists like Son Ngoc Thanh react to the rise of Imperial Japan? What are the circumstances surrounding the choice of Norodom Sihanouk as the new Cambodian king in 1941 - as a 19 year old?Time Period Covered: 1939 - 1945This episode is an in-depth discussion of the events in Cambodia and Vietnam that occurred once the French presence in Indochina was diminished by Imperial Japan during WWII. Cambodia will briefly become independent amongst the chaos of 1945, but the road to this change will involve a host of different events. Cambodian nationalism becomes a genuine force within the country, and Prince Norodom Sihanouk will become king in 1941. Monks will protest, some will join revolutionary movements. The young men and women who will eventually form the core of the Khmer Rouge will witness rapid change as the world transforms radically in just six years. The rise of the Viet Minh and the declaration of an independent Democratic Republic of Vietnam - as well as the famous speech that Ho Chi Minh makes to mark this occasion - concludes this episode.SourcesPhilip Short Pol Pot: History of a NightmareDavid Chandler The Tragedy of Cambodian History and A History of CambodiaBen Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to Power and Viet NamMilton Osbourne SihanoukHo Chi Minh Declaration of Independence Christopher Goscha Vietnam: A New HistorySupporthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

How do you build a society out of the theories of Marx and Engels? Who was Lenin and why is he such an important communist figure? How did communism come to Indochina?Time Period Covered: 1917 - 1939Beginning with Lenin being sent into the fragile Russian Empire in 1917, this episode is a discussion of the evolution of Marxism from 'theory' to 'practise'. This creates a new version of the 'doctrine': 'Marxism-Leninism'. The Russian Revolution in 1917 represents the entrance of a new civilisation onto the globe, one fuelled by the energy of communism. A young Vietnamese man sees this ideology as a potential way for his country to be freed from colonialism, as do many others. The reign of Lenin gives way to Stalin, and terror, as we expand our vocabulary of 'communism' in order to better understand the actions of the Khmer Rouge.Supporthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

Who are the proletariat? Who wrote the Communist Manifesto? What was the context in which it was written? Time Period Covered 1842 – 1900 This episode is intended to function as an introduction to the ideas of Marx and Engels, and more broadly to 'communism'. We begin with some common phrases used by the Communist Party of Kampuchea and their cadre that highlight the ideology of the movement. We then depart Southeast Asia for Europe in the midst of the Industrial Revolution, and look at the work of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels as they form a new view of history based on economics and class, and they forecast revolution. Sources Friedrich Engels The Conditions of the Working Class in England Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels The Communist Manifesto Henri Locard ​Pol Pot's Little Red Book: The Sayings of Angkar Support https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

What did French control of Cambodia look like? How did this ‘Protectorate’ function? What are the origins of Cambodian nationalism? What was life like for your average Khmer in the early 20th century?Time Period Covered 1880 – 1938This episode centres around Cambodian history as the French instigate the colonisation of Indochina. We learn about the early reactions to French rule, as well as the treatment of the Khmer by the imperial power and how the 'protectorate' functioned. The murder of the French 'resident' Felix Louis Bardez in a rural hamlet also prompts a discussion of the culture of the Khmer living in the areas outside of the major towns and cities based on May Ebihara's groundbreaking work. This episode continues detailing the early life of Saloth Sar, and his family, as well as introducing Son Ngoc Thanh, and the first Khmer language newspaper 'Nagaravatta'. Episode Content Map Google Maps ImageSourcesDavid Chandler A History of CambodiaBen Kiernan How Pol Pot Came to PowerPhilip Short Pol Pot: History of a NightmareMay Ebihara Svay: A Khmer Village in Cambodia

What happened in the years leading up the French colonisation of Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam? How did Cambodian rulers become so dependent on either Siam or Vietnam for protection? Time period covered: 1789 - 1887In this episode, Lachlan bridges the gap between Cambodia’s ‘middle period’ and the dawn of French colonisation of Indochina. Beginning with the French revolution and its links with the eventual Khmer Rouge revolution, we then explore the imposition of Vietnamese control on Cambodia in the 19th century, as well as the story of a French naturalist who visited the region. The episode ends with the different ways in which the French conquered Cambodia and Vietnam.The story of Cambodia’s ‘years of calamity’ and the influence of this period on the psyche of a country dominated by the ascendant Siam and Vietnam is explored. We even have an introduction to the early years of Saloth Sar, otherwise known as Pol Pot.SourcesDavid Chandler A History of CambodiaHenri Mouhot Travels in Siam, Cambodia and LaosPhilip Short Pol Pot: History of a NightmareSupporthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

Professor David Chandler is perhaps the most widely recognised and respected scholar of Cambodian history. Author of books such as A History of Cambodia, Brother Number One, Voices from S-21 and The Tragedy of Cambodian History, David has also testified as an expert witness on two occasions during the trial of former leaders of the Khmer Rouge. I had the privilege to sit down with Professor Chandler in his home in Melbourne to discuss ideas about the current state of Khmer Rouge historiography, his thoughts on the Khmer Rouge Tribunal, whether the crimes of the CPK can be considered 'genocide', and his experience visiting the country so soon after it 're-opened' in 1981. David was until recently a Professor Emeritus at Monash University, where I first met him in 2011.Supporthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

How will the forces of Imperialism and Colonialism come to the region of Indochina? What role will Europeans play in shaping what will eventually become the state of Cambodia?Time period covered: 1500 - 1825Cambodia’s transitionary period will also see the start of European influence in the region. What did these early encounters look like? The ridiculous story of Ruiz and Veloso, two ‘adventurers’ from Spain and Portugal who attempt to take over the country is relayed. Lachlan also spends some time introducing what the larger forces of colonialism looked like around the globe at this time. The attention then shifts to France as we look to foreshadow the coming imposition of control from Europe that will culminate in ‘French Indochina’ being eventually established. The story of Pierre De Behaine, a French missionary stationed in Vietnam, is told as we look to set up the long and tangential relationship between Vietnam and France. The period of conflict within Vietnam and the eventual unification of that kingdom by Emperor Gia Long – with help from the aforementioned missionary – is also related to Cambodian history, particularly the infamous Cambodian folktale of ‘the master’s tea’; a story about Vietnamese cruelty to the Khmer that can still be heard today.SourcesBriggs, L.P. ‘Spanish Intervention in Cambodia’, T'oung Pao, Second Series, Vol. 39, 1950David Chandler A History of CambodiaAlex Hinton Why Did They Kill? Supporthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

How did the Khmer go from a civilisation which dominated most of mainland Southeast Asia, to a reduced vassal state of either the Siamese or the Vietnamese? Why did the capital move from Angkor? Why are the Vietnamese the ‘hereditary enemy’ of the Khmer?Time period covered: 1431 - 1800The next part of the series is hugely important for establishing the context of Cambodia in the 20th century, and therefore the factors leading to the Khmer Rouge revolution. The transition of Angkor to Phnom Penh, as well as the relationship that develops between the Khmer and their neighbours in Siam and Vietnam are important aspects of Cambodian history in its ‘dark ages’ or ‘middle period’. In this episode, Lachlan introduces a brief history of Vietnam, as this eastern neighbour will play a vital role in the story of the region in the 20th century and is necessary for a Cambodian History podcast focusing on the Khmer Rouge.SourcesDavid Chandler A History of CambodiaChristopher Goscha Vietnam: A New History Supporthttps://www.shadowsofutopia.com/support.html

Tom Chandler is a senior lecturer at Monash University. His research has focused upon the design and development of immersive simulations of the past, particularly the medieval Cambodian capital of Angkor. In what is the first interview of the series Lachlan speaks with Tom about how immersive virtual recreations can transform our imagination of the 'skeletal remains' of Angkor. The uses of this research for historians as well as the resources that Tom and his team at the Virtual Angkor Project are discussed, as well as his thoughts on technology and archaeology. Visit https://www.virtualangkor.com/ for more information about the project Tom is building.