Ill Conceived

Natalists have an ideal life and an ideal wife: rugged, individualistic, and dedicated to self-sufficiency. Perhaps nothing epitomizes this ideal better than Ballerina Farm, the popular social media account of dancer and pageant queen Hannah Neeleman that is growing into an influential direct-to-consumer food and lifestyle brand that no longer sells raw milk. This week, Josh and June look at the history of Ballerina Farm and try to understand how its strange brand of seemingly apolitical tradwifery serves as a stalking horse for the natalist movement and reactionary politics more broadly. CHECK OUT OUR RECENT PODCAST GUEST APPEARANCES! June on Anime Sickos Josh on Lions Led By Donkeys Josh on Well There's Your Problem ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]*** EPISODE ART: Hannah Neeleman in a professional headshot. After graduating from Juilliard's dance undergraduate program while pregnant, Neeleman moved to Brazil then back home to Utah, where she and her husband Daniel purchased a farm along the east side of the Wasatch Range. Her Instagram account Ballerina Farm has over 10 million followers. AUDIO CLIPS: 1:01:48 – "Strength at Every Stage" protein powder advertisement from Ballerina Farm 1:27:12 – Response to the Sunday Times article from the Ballerina Farm Instagram account SOURCES: Ballerina Farm website Ballerina Farm Instagram “Meet the queen of the ‘trad wives’ (and her eight children)” by Megan Agnew (The Sunday Times, July 20, 2024) “She Gave Birth Two Weeks Ago. Now She’s in a Beauty Pageant” by Madison Malone Kircher (The New York Times, January 30, 2024) “Tycoon or Tradwife? The Woman Behind Ballerina Farm Makes Her Own Path” by Julia Moskin (The New York Times, December 3, 2024) “The Business of Ballerina Farm” by Liz Flora (Business of Fashion, May 27, 2025) “When Ballerina Farm Comes to Town” by Erica Schwiegershausen (The Cut, September 10, 2025) “Park City Creamery to sell business to Ballerina Farm” by Katie Hatzfeld (The Park Record, December 23, 2025) “Ballerina Farm pauses raw milk sales after samples fail health tests” by Grace Doerfler (KPCW, January 29, 2026) Hannah Neeleman’s feature spread in Evie magazine “Audio Recording From Ballerina Farm Times Interview Exposes Dishonest Journalism” by Nicole Dominique (Evie, July 29, 2024) FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

Beast Week continues as the gang from The Worst of All Possible Worlds join with June and Caleb to dig into season 2 of Beast Games. This is the first half of a full-length episode; to get the whole thing head over to Patreon.com/worstofall!

We're so back. The next Ill Conceived, about Ballerina Farm, has been recorded and will drop this coming Friday. To tide you over until then, we've brought you some extra goodies. Our other shows, Josh's The Worst of All Possible Worlds and June's Kill The Computer, are doing a full crossover collaboration that we're calling Beast Week, dedicated to celebrating Jimmy "MrBeast" Donaldson. And it kicks off today. In this episode of Kill The Computer, the gang from The Worst of All Possible Worlds talked with June and Caleb about a number of videos MrBeast released in 2025. Then we dug into his theme park Beast Land, a temporary pop-up in Riyadh that was open for 45 days as part of the annual Saudi entertainment festival known as Riyadh Season. Next up, on Wednesday, Kill The Computer will be joining Josh, Brian, and A.J. on The Worst of All Possible Worlds Patreon for a premium episode about season 2 of Beast Games. We'll also upload the first half of the episode here so you can get a taste for it. Finally, on Friday, alongside new Ill Conceived we’ll be concluding Beast Week on the Kill The Computer Patreon with an in-depth conversation about what Jimmy’s been up to so far this year and where we think he might go next. Thank you as always for being our beloved babies. Love, Josh

THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- We try to clarify some of our thoughts last week on weight and health, then dig a bit more into some claims made by the Bro Scientists. Plus, June gets a bit loopy and we spend a solid 10+ minutes on ball tanning. We also read your emails about: Avoiding plastics because your dad is afraid of estrogen Jobs with lots of physical activity that are bad for your health Finally, here's a link to the GIF that June was cracking up about.

Testosterone is lowering. Sperm counts are shrinking. Men, a once proud and noble half of the human race, are accelerating down the road to extinction. So say many natalists, who tie their fear of demographic decline into their anxieties about gender. But how much of what they claim has any basis in truth whatsoever? This week, June and Josh take a look at Tucker Carlson's 2022 Fox Nation short "The End of Men" to see how it both set a template for and propagated narratives about declining masculinity that have since become ubiquitous. ***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]*** EPISODE ART: Tucker Carlson in an ABC News press photo. After spending years as a mid-level host of various news shows, Carlson became a leading star of Fox News' primetime lineup with the debut of Tucker Carlson Tonight in 2016. Carlson was fired by the network in 2023 for spreading falsehoods and misleading video about the January 6, 2020 riots on the United States Capitol and has since become a leading voice of right-wing new media. SOURCES: Why Tucker Carlson's 'The End of Men' Is So Disturbing Why Are Testosterone Levels Decreasing? Secular trends in testosterone- findings from a large state-mandate care provider Environmental Toxins Likely Cause of 50% Decline in Global Sperm Count Male fertility is declining – studies show that environmental toxins could be a reason Low t and fertility Low Testosterone & Fertility Endocrine Disruptor What are endocrine disruptors? What Are Ultra Processed Foods? How Diet Impacts Health Seeding doubt: The truth about cooking oils Trump executive order on a weed killer chemical didn’t do RFK Jr. any favors RFK Jr. post agreeing with Trumps EO Red Light Therapy: Benefits, Safety and Things to Know Is Eating Raw Eggs Bad? Cold Plunge Benefits: The Science Behind Ice Baths for Recovery Beef Tallow: Doctors Group Shares Consumer Health Alert Warning “Unapologetically Bomb” Whitehouse post The Myth of the New Man in Italian Fascist Ideology FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- The new CEO of Xbox is worried about birthrates and thinks AI might have the solution. We're talking about it, plus we read your letters from the Jeffrey Epstein episode regarding: How "pregnant people" provides more specificity as a term than "pregnant women" and why natalists don't like it The emails that Sarah Ferguson, the then-wife of then-Prince Andrew, sent to Epstein How Epstein associate Nick Bostrom's obsession with superintelligent AI reflects a faulty consensus among tech industry types Also, here's a link to the official music video for Jimmy MacMillan's song "Ain't Nothing To Talk About" in its entirety.

On January 30, the U.S. Department of Justice released over 3 million pages of new information about Jeffrey Epstein. Among these documents are thousands of new emails detailing Epstein's links to technologists and academics in the world of evolutionary biology, eugenics, and artificial intelligence. This week, Josh and June dig into the history of Epstein's connections with these people and discuss how his bizarre plans for his own offspring reflect the ideas and objectives of the tech natalist agenda. ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON! Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]*** EPISODE ART: Jeffrey Epstein, the disgraced financier and human trafficker, wearing a Harvard university sweatshirt. One month after being indicted on federal child sex trafficking charges in 2019, Epstein was found dead in his jail cell, leaving his likely thousands of victims without justice for the crimes he committed. SOURCES: “Harvard closes evolution center after finding connections to Jeffrey Epstein” by Edward Helmore (The Guardian, March 27, 2021) “Martin Nowak Sanctioned for Jeffrey Epstein Involvement” by Lydialyle Gibson (Harvard Magazine, March 25, 2021) “How Jeffrey Epstein Captivated Harvard” by Michael Massing (The Nation, July 24, 2023) Harvard report concerning Jeffrey Epstein’s connections to Harvard University “Professor Corina Tarnita on the Epstein Files: ‘I Wish I Had Never Known Him’” by Lia Opperman (Princeton Alumni Weekly, February 10, 2026) “Jeffrey Epstein Raked In $200 Million After Legal and Financial Crises” by Matthew Goldstein and Steve Eder (The New York Times, October 3, 2019) “Epstein files reveal deeper ties to scientists than previously known” by Dan Garisto (Nature, February 6, 2026) Epstein testimony before the Economic Development Commission, USVI “Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery” by Landon Thomas Jr. (New York Magazine, October 28, 2002) “Jeffrey Epstein files shed light on ties to Santa Fe Institute scientists” by Clara Bates (Santa Fe New Mexican, February 11, 2026) “Jeffrey Epstein E-mails Reveal Depth of Ties to High-Profile Scientists” by Dan Vergano (Scientific American, November 13, 2025) “The DIY designer baby project funded with Bitcoin” by Antonio Regalado (MIT Technology Review, February 1, 2019) “Jeffrey Epstein Hoped to Seed Human Race With His DNA” by James B. Stewart, Matthew Goldstein and Jessica Silver-Greenberg (The New York Times, July 31, 2019) “Why did Jeffrey Epstein cultivate famous scientists?” by Dan Vergano (Scientific American, January 20, 2026) “Jeffrey Epstein had a 'Frankenstein'-like plan to analyze human DNA in the US Virgin Islands, and it reportedly pulled in $200 million” by Erin Brodwin (Business Insider, October 4, 2019) “Texas GOP politician Don Huffines plans Christian retreat at Zorro Ranch” by Clara Bates (Santa Fe New Mexican, February 16, 2026) “Former MIT scientist funded by Epstein made racist and sexist claims in private emails” by Kate Selig (Boston Globe, November 21, 2025) “New Mexico House unanimously enacts Epstein ‘truth commission’” by Danielle Prokop (Source NM, February 16, 2026) “How Jeffrey Epstein Bought His Way Into An Exclusive Intellectual Boys Club” by Peter Aldhous (Buzzfeed News, September 26, 2019) “How Epstein Infiltrated the Silicon Valley Network Behind Trump’s New Tech Order” by Nafeez Ahmed (Byline Times, December 3, 2025) “How Epstein Channelled Race Science and ‘Climate Culling’ Into Silicon Valley’s AI Elite” by Nafeez Ahmed (Byline Times, December 5, 2025) DIRECT LINKS TO EPSTEIN FILES QUOTED IN THIS EPISODE: Exchange between Epstein and Stephen Kosslyn where Epstein requests the name of a psychologist for a 15-year-old girl Epstein’s pitch to Martin Nowak for “commercial evolution” Nowak’s first reply Nowak’s second reply Nowak’s third reply Exchange between Nowak and Epstein about “a polish beauty” Exchange between Nowak and Epstein about a “captured spy” Exchange between Nowak and Epstein concerning Nowak’s “Korean friend” Exchange between Nowak's assistant, Epstein, and Epstein's accountant concerning a wire of $10,000 to "the girl from Romania" Journal that appears to document a young woman’s experience as a “human incubator” for Epstein FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- We didn't get a lot of mail about surrogacy this week. But you wanted to hear more about weird Silicon Valley Christians and we wanted to talk about them, so we read from an interview with the founder of a Peter Thiel-connected organization called ACTS 17 that hosted the "Code and Cosmos" event we mentioned in last week's main feed episode. Plus, an update on Trump Accounts.

An increasingly popular childbirth option for couples who cannot easily naturally conceive is to utilize a surrogate who gestates and births the pregnancy on behalf of the intended parents. And as of late, surrogacy is also being used by some especially wealthy people, particularly in the tech industry, as a way for them to avoid pregnancy altogether. This week, June and Josh look at the history of surrogacy, the moral disagreements among the religious right about the practice, and some of the ethical and legal complications that can result. ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON! Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]*** EPISODE ART: Cindy Bi, a venture capitalist who attempted to give birth via surrogacy. When the pregnancy resulted in a stillbirth, Bi sued her surrogate and went to the press to disparage her further. AUDIO CLIPS: 1:15:47 – Epic Church promotional "About Us" video 1:22:49 – Ben Pilgreen, pastor of Epic Church, delivering a sermon called "What Maturity Demands" SOURCES: Man into Woman: An Authentic Record of a Change of Sex (1933) The History of Surrogacy: A Legal Timeline Baby M and the Question of Surrogate Motherhood Surrogacy Laws: The Best States For Compensated Surrogacy Severe Maternal and Neonatal Morbidity Among Gestational Carriers: A Cohort Study Americans want biological children but prefer adoption to surrogacy The Difference Between Love and Surrogacy Gestational Surrogacy Success Rates Common issues with surrogacy and IVF Surrogates 20 years on: long-term psychological health, contact with surrogacy families, and thoughts and feelings about post-birth contact The Baby Died. Whose Fault Is It? The billionaire obsession with surrogacy Christianity Was “Borderline Illegal” in Silicon Valley. Now It’s the New Religion The Chinese Billionaires Having Dozens of U.S.-Born Babies Via Surrogate Artificial womb robot promises cheap surrogacy but sparks deep ethical fears Silicon Valley wants to help me make a superbaby. Should I let it? Suggestion to use brain stem dead women's bodies for surrogate pregnancies sparks huge backlash Regulation of Genetic Tests Perspectives on Surrogate Motherhood FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- Palantir employees are in their feels about their company's complicity with ICE and we're talking about it. We also issue a couple corrections about the Peter Thiel episode (28 is the number of days in a menstrual cycle and it turns out that Thiel does have children), then dig into the world-famous mailbag for your thoughts on: The way that Ashley St. Clair and other right-wing media figures have influenced children to develop a conservative worldview from a young age, both recently and in the past The privacy and data tracking implications of period tracking apps The paradox of the non-identity problem and how it applies to IVF If you haven't listened to June and Matt's interview with Ashley St. Clair, go check it out!

Big data controls our lives like never before, and few people are more responsible than Peter Thiel, the billionaire cofounder of Palantir who made the bulk of his fortune by investing early in Facebook. But it turns out that beyond his obsession with data, Thiel is equally fixated on the end times, the rise of the Antichrist, and the recent trend of declining birth rates in the West. This week, Josh and June try to figure out why Peter Thiel has the worldview he does and how it bears out in his investments in natalist technology. CHECK OUT OUR RECENT PODCAST GUEST APPEARANCES! June on A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein talking with Ashley St. Clair about her history with, and regrets about, the right-wing propaganda machine Josh on Have You Seen This? talking about the movie Catch My Soul Josh on Reserved Recommendations talking about the Christian musical group Newsboys ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON! Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]*** EPISODE ART: Peter Thiel in a 2016 address to the Republican National Convention. Born in Germany, Thiel spent the bulk of his childhood in an apartheid settlement in South West Africa. After graduating from Stanford and briefly attempting a career in law, Thiel co-founded PayPal, Palantir and numerous venture capital funds, also making a critical early investment in Facebook that now represents the core of his fortune. AUDIO CLIPS: 59:59 – Peter Thiel talks about the Antichrist in a Mercatus Center interview about political theology 1:24:12 – Peter Thiel talks about demographic collapse in an episode of The Joe Rogan Experience FURTHER READING: "The Real Stakes, and Real Story, of Peter Thiel’s Antichrist Obsession" by Laura Bullard (Wired, September 30, 2025) SOURCES: "No Death, No Taxes" by George Packer (The New Yorker, November 20, 2011) "How the roots of the ‘PayPal mafia’ extend to apartheid South Africa" by Chris McGreal (The Guardian, January 26, 2025) "South‐West Africa City Remains ‘More German Than Germany’" by Henry Kamm (The New York Times, October 30, 1976) "Quote of the Day: PayPal Co-Founder on Sullivan & Cromwell Stint" (Bloomberg, May 24, 2016) "Peter Thiel is totally gay, people" by Owen Thomas (Gawker, December 19, 2007) "What Does Palantir Actually Do?" by Caroline Haskins (Wired, August 11, 2025) "‘ELITE’: The Palantir App ICE Uses to Find Neighborhoods to Raid" by Joseph Cox (404 Media, January 15, 2026) "Jeffrey Epstein Invested With Peter Thiel, and His Estate Is Reaping Millions" by Matthew Goldstein (The New York Times, June 4, 2025) "Concern Grows Around Billionaire Peter Thiel’s Period-Tracking App" by Maggie Harrison Dupré (Futurism, September 11, 2022) "Surveillance Titan Peter Thiel Invests Millions in New Anti-Feminist Menstrual Tracking App" by Kylie Cheung (Jezebel, September 6, 2022) "Would You Wear a Period-Tracker Funded by Peter Thiel?" by Jessica Valenti & Kylie Cheung (Abortion Every Day, November 11, 2025) "With backing from Thiel, Recharge Capital launches $200M women’s health investment vehicle" by Catherine Shu (TechCrunch, June 15, 2023) "Rhea reaps $10M more led by Thiel" by Kate Park (TechCrunch, May 30, 2024) FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is now going to allow young women to go on their mission starting at the age of 18 in the hopes of getting young Mormons married even younger. We're talking about it, plus we read your letters responding to our Masturbation & Pornography episode regarding: How age verification works for restricted websites in Australia How anti-pornography action reflects the natalist agenda Resources and organizations that are fighting online CSAM, including the Canadian Centre for Child Protection's Project Arachnid The important differences between the Kellogg brothers From here on out, you can expect Mailbag & Chill episodes every other Friday where we read your letters responding to the previous week's episode. (And we'll eventually get around to doing a dramatic reading of the Zootopia abortion comic.) Thanks as always for being a subscriber!

Moral panic about masturbation and pornography is nothing new, but in the wake of Donald Trump's re-election, numerous conservative groups—many of whom have deep ties to the natalist movement—have started to ring the alarm bell once again. This week, June and Josh take a look at the early history of fear of masturbation, then jump forward to the present day to see how the Kids Online Safety Act (KOSA) reflects many of these paranoias and introduces problems of its own. There's also a pretty significant detour into talking about the Zootopia abortion comic, if that's your thing. ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON NOW! We record bonus mailbag episodes and release them at the beginning of each week. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]*** EPISODE ART: John Harvey Kellogg, a physician who founded the Kellogg Company with his brother Will in Battle Creek, Michigan in 1906. Kellogg believed that bland food such as unsweetened corn flakes could aid in reducing the urge to masturbate. He also was a notable eugenicist and co-founded the Race Betterment Foundation in 1914 to discourage interracial relationships. AUDIO CLIPS: 16:07 – Tucker Carlson talks to Milo Yiannopolous about homosexuality FURTHER READING/LISTENING: The Worst of All Possible Worlds episode about Every Young Man's Battle (Apple Podcasts / Spotify / YouTube) The Zootopia abortion comic SOURCES: The Age-Gated Internet Is Sweeping the US. Activists Are Fighting Back The far right’s crusade against porn is a red herring – it’s actually a crusade against progress Re-Victimized: When Sexual Assault Gets Uploaded to Porn Platforms The Disturbing True Story of Kellogg’s Anti-Masturbation Cereal How Project 2025 Tries to Demonize LGBTQI+ People—and Why It’ll Fail Nick Kristof and the Holy War on Pornhub Delete history: Pornhub changed the world, but its empire faces a reckoning Internet Censorship Bills Wouldn’t Help Catch Sex Traffickers Project 2025 Tracker Age verification regulations in the United States of America Hack of Age Verification Company Shows Privacy Danger of Social Media Laws Press release about the passage of KOSA from the office of Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-MD) IHOPKC founder committed sexual abuse, misconduct against 17 women, investigation finds Melissa McCarthy Apologizes for Supporting Charity with Anti-LGBTQ Past FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

Josh was really sick the past couple weeks so we haven't been able to get new episodes out. But we wanted to get you something before the end of the year, so we talked about sperm racing and read some more mail. New episodes in the standard format will resume on a biweekly schedule starting Friday, January 2. Thank you for being our wonderful babies and we'll see you in the new year. ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON NOW! We record bonus mailbag episodes and release them every other week. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** EPISODE ART: A charming LEGO mailman who is holding a brick of mail. AUDIO CLIPS: 13:09 – The official Sperm Racing trailer, as posted to the brand's X account on December 12 SOURCES: "I Watched Sperm Race With Hundreds of Teens. It Was a Total Sh*t Show." by Jason Rogers (Men's Health, May 7, 2025) FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

Charles Murray & Richard Herrnstein's 1994 book The Bell Curve caused tremendous controversy on its publication by positing a link between intelligence and race. But this certainly wasn't the first time someone had made this argument, nor would it be the last. This week, Josh and June take a look at the foundation of the eugenics movement in North America, track its close relationship with the development of IQ testing, and discover some surprising links to German, Italian, and American fascism. ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON NOW! We record bonus mailbag episodes and release them at the beginning of each week. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]*** EPISODE ART: Charles Murray, co-author of The Bell Curve. Murray, a Harvard and MIT-trained political scientist, is strongly opposed to social welfare programs and has made dismantling the welfare state a central goal of his project. He has been in residence at the American Enterpise Institute since 1990 and currently holds the F. A. Hayek Chair Emeritus in Cultural Studies there. SOURCES: “Christianity and Eugenics: The Place of Religion in the British Eugenics Education Society and the American Eugenics Society, c.1907–1940” by Graham J. Baker (Social History of Medicine, 2014) “The Pioneer Fund: Financier of Fascist Research” by Steven J. Rosenthal (American Behavioral Scientist,1995) “The Pioneer Fund: Bankrolling the Professors of Hate” by Adam Miller (The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, 1994) “Revealed: International ‘race science’ network secretly funded by US tech boss” by David Pegg, Tom Burgis, Hannah Devlin and Jason Wilson (The Guardian, October 16, 2024) “A Company Says It Can Predict Your Baby’s IQ Before Birth. But Where’s the Science?” by Darren Orf (Popular Mechanics, August 7, 2025) The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life by Charles A. Murray and Richard Herrnstein (Free Press, 1994) Predatory Data: Eugenics in Big Tech and our Fight for an Independent Future by Anita Say Chan (University of California Press, 2025) “The Pronatalism of Silicon Valley” by Emma Waters (The Heritage Foundation, August 22, 2024) “The influencers who want the world to have more babies - and say the White House is on their side” by Stephanie Hegarty (BBC, April 1, 2025) “The Education of a Libertarian” by Peter Thiel (Cato Unbound, April 13, 2009) FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)

THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other weekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived -------------------------- NYC Subway's Broadway-Lafayette station is now full of apparently eugenicist ads for an IVF and genetic testing company called Nucleus. We're talking about it, plus: The parallels between Balaji Srinivasan's ideas and the novels of Neal Stephenson Other sci-fi that predicts other futures Electrical engineers and why they're Like That A screenshot of the embryo selection grid on Nucleus's website: https://imgur.com/a/bfV9Hay

The White House will likely soon release a large set of documents about convicted pedophile and human trafficker Jeffrey Epstein further detailing the depths of his crimes. Alongside this, a line of rhetoric seems to be developing in certain right-wing circles: although what Epstein did was morally abominable, not all of it was criminal, and it's certainly categorically different from preying on "real children." But what exactly is childhood, and why are certain reactionaries making this argument now? This week, June and Josh look into the history of the concept of childhood in the United States to try and figure out why. ***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON NOW! We record bonus mailbag episodes and release them at the beginning of each week. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!*** ***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]*** EPISODE ART: Richard Hanania, a writer and online right-wing personality whose work includes 2023's The Origins of Woke, published by HarperCollins under their Broadside Books imprint. Hanania is a co-author of Project 2025, previously wrote for white supremacists publications under the pen name Richard Hoste, and recently wrote about how pedophilia is a moral panic. AUDIO CLIPS: 3:11 – Megyn Kelly speaking about Jeffrey Epstein in a recent episode of The Megyn Kelly Show 1:05:01 – "Jailbait," a song released by Olivia Nuzzi under the pseudonym "Livvy" in 2009 when she was 16 years old 1:14:32 – Neil Sedaka performs "Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen" on American Bandstand in 1963 FURTHER LISTENING: The Worst of All Possible Worlds episode about Fireproof (Apple Podcasts / Spotify / Pocket Casts) SOURCES: Republican Wants to Loosen Child Labor Laws Why is the teen birth rate falling? Child Labor Laws - Facts and Misconceptions Injuries, death and abuse: The disturbing reality behind Ohio’s rollback child labor laws A Brief History of Education in the United States Epstein files: Who else was mentioned? Hulk Hogan Awarded $115 Million in Privacy Suit Against Gawker The U.S. Fertility Decline Is Not Due to the Drop in Teen Pregnancies Age of Consent Through the Years in the United States. Hitler, Demi Moore, and Other "Pedophiles" FOLLOW THE SHOW: Website: illconceivedpodcast.com Bluesky: ‪@illconceivedpodcast.com Tumblr: @illconceivedpod FOLLOW JOSH: Website: joshboerman.com Bluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.world Other podcast: The Worst of All Possible Worlds Stream: Traditional Scrench FOLLOW JUNE: Bluesky: @junlper.beer Other podcast: Kill The Computer Writing: June's Substack ILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)