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Home Education Matters

Home Education Matters

172 episodes — Page 3 of 4

Ep 71All you need to know about the EHCP process with Ann Drewitt

Today we do a deep dive into EHCPs including:EHCP at schoolEHCP and specialist school provisionEOTASEHCP with a budgetAnd the advantages and disadvantages of each possible routePlus a huge amount more. Ann is an expert in the provision of EHCPs and we are really grateful for her time talking us through this vital but complex area of educational support.

Jan 7, 20241h 3m

Ep 70A Journey into Home Education - December ’Confidence and Understanding’

Welcome to month four of our regular catch up with new home educator Ash. And today we find out how December has gone for her and her son, Ismael. It's been a time of nagging inner voices and so we discuss the inherent worry of parenting and the self-doubt that hits us all as home educators from time to time. And we also look ahead to the next year and discuss the tweaks and adjustments Ash hopes to make in her home education journey. 

Dec 31, 202323 min

Ep 69Christmas Special - Quiz Time!

Welcome to a special Christmas edition of Home Education Matters and we are going for a quiz on all things home education! Sit back, test your knowledge and see if you can keep up with the ever changing question numbers :)

Dec 24, 202332 min

Ep 68Sharing our Successes - Making Home Education work for you with Chloe

It's the third episode in our Sharing our Successes season and we're meeting the fabulous Chloe, who is crafting her own home education journey to make sure it works just right for her. She's a fabulous example of liberation from 'this is how it's always been done' to 'this is how I'm going to do it!'. And all this while documenting it on her Instagram account: chlojosclassroom. Feeling like you need a bit of inspiration for how to run your life better? I reckon Chloe's the girl to give it you!

Dec 17, 202319 min

Ep 67How to engage a disengaged child with Humanatees Learning

Is your home educated child struggling to engage with their learning? Maybe you've just started home educating and your child isn't engaging with their work or perhaps you've been home educating a while but have hit a bit of a wall.Today we talk to Jake from Humanatees to find his top tips for engaging a child who has disengaged from their learning. 

Dec 10, 202354 min

Ep 66Do children need manners? A parenting discussion

Join Jo Moorcroft, dog behaviourist, and I as we discuss the role of manners and etiquette in parenting. Our latest episode as part of our mini series where we see how the worlds of dog behaviourism and progressive parenting meet!Today we discuss what role manners has to play when home educating your child, whether there is a place for learned etiquette and how our family values might dictate our approach to manners as parents. 

Dec 3, 202329 min

Ep 65A Journey into Home Education - November ’Relaxing into it’

Our monthly catch up with Ash and Ismael on their home educating journey and today we hear how month 3 is going. We discuss that fine line between 'lessons' and 'learning', how home education impacts on the wider family and the role that the parent's attitude plays in making it a success. Look out for next month's catch up which will be out on 1st January 2024. How time flies!

Dec 1, 202322 min

Ep 64Physics for Home Educators with Claire Johnson

Today Claire and I deep dive into Physics provision for home educators, with a focus on secondary age learning. We discuss the different exam specs available to home educators, IGCSE vs GCSE, incorporating practicals into your home learning and how to revise for your exams most effectively.A big thank you to Claire for guiding us through Physics and she'll be in our FB group to answer any subject specific questions you might have: https://www.facebook.com/groups/homeeducationmatters

Nov 26, 202345 min

Ep 63Parenting with Possibilities - The 4 Feelings with Sareeta Pattni

Join Sareeta Pattni and I as we launch into the very first episode of our new series which focuses on parenting issues when home educating. Today we talk about the importance of allowing feelings to be expressed, how to help your child feel able to discuss their emotions and how to also express your own emotions in a way that is both helpful and healthy for the family.Keep an eye out for episode two when we'll discuss the roles of speaker and recipient in emotional conversations and how to ensure they land just right with you and your child.

Nov 19, 202345 min

Ep 62Season One Finale!

We celebrate coming to the end of our first year podcasting with a very special episode. Join Diane and I as we talk about her big news, plus there's a special announcement right at the end so stay tuned for that one.To help us celebrate, perhaps each of you could share your favourite episode of our podcast in a home ed FB group. We know that home ed is all about connection and sharing episodes across platforms is a wonderful way for us to connect with more of you.And thank you to everyone for joining us throughout this last year. It's been a lot of fun and we couldn't have done it without you all listening to us each and every week!

Nov 12, 202323 min

Ep 61Online schools with Lianne Abram

For this episode, I am joined by Lianne Abram, the creator of the Which Online School guide. Love them or hate them, online schooling is a lifeline for many home educators and today we explore what to look out for, how to find a good one and what sort of options are open to you. As well as a rather fun debate on the pros and cons of online schooling when home educating. Do leave a comment and tell us what side of the fence you fall on!And a big thank you to Lianne for putting up with all my questions and some of my rather combative views ;-)

Nov 5, 202350 min

Ep 60A Journey into Home Education - October ’Ups and downs!’

We catch up with Ash in her second month as a home educator. Hear about her ups and downs, her experiences writing her report for the Local Authority and the perils of home education socialising!Do subscribe to our podcast to make sure you're notified of our next episode on Ash's journey or join our FB group to chat with Ash and all our other podcast guests.

Nov 1, 202327 min

Ep 59The GrowBadges Project for your home educated child

Today I am joined by Matt and Miriam from GrowBadges, an amazing project designed to help your child (and you!) explore some of the more diverse skills we find in our modern world. From journalling to diversity, volunteering to gardening, GrowBadges are shining a light on some of the most important 'soft skills' that are often so important within the home education community.Do check it out and if you enjoy it, give us a review!

Oct 29, 202349 min

Ep 58Incorporating play into your home education journey with Jo Moorcroft

Join myself and Jo as we discuss another vital element of home education, the power of play. As part of our mini series looking at the ways dog psychology meets parenting, we talk about the educational value of play, the ways it can be incorporated into your home ed daily life and the wonderful ways it can create harmony and bonding within your family.It's never too late to incorporate play into your family life, so check it out and do give us a like, subscribe and review if you enjoy our episodes.

Oct 22, 202333 min

Ep 57Exploring the wonderful world of Rap Yoga with Veronica Youdell

Today we talk to Rap Yoga creator Veronica Youdell to discover the amazing creative and well-being benefits of combining rap and yoga. It is an amazing way to foster self-confidence, creative skills and holistic movement for you and your home educated child.If you enjoy our podcast, do leave us a review :)

Oct 15, 202331 min

Ep 56English Language IGCSE - Cambridge - with Iram Malik

Join Iram and I as we make our way through the English Language IGCSE exam. We discuss the differences between the three main IGCSE options (Edexcel A, Edexcel B and Cambridge English) and then zone in on the Cambridge qualification.Iram guides us through each paper, what to expect, what the examiner is looking for and her top tips to getting the highest grades for each section of each paper.It's a long one but it's a must listen for anyone whose child is sitting the Cambridge IGCSE exam.

Oct 8, 20231h 24m

Ep 55A Journey into Home Education - September ’One Month In’

Join Ash and I as we catch up on her first month as a home educator. We discuss the highs and the lows, the challenges of socialising and the gradual relaxing into a slower tempo. We will be releasing an episode every month this year charting Ash's journey, so make sure you subscribe or follow the podcast to receive notifications. 

Oct 1, 202332 min

Ep 54The importance of relationship in parenting

Today is the first in our series of short podcasts using the world of dog behaviourism to inform our discussion on parenting. Yes, it's mad but it works!We're joined by Jo Moorcroft, dog behaviourist, to chat about the role of relationship when parenting. Why does the relationship matter and what can you do to strengthen it as a home educating parent? Hop onto youTube or our FB page and tell us what moments have challenged or strengthened your relationship.https://www.facebook.com/homeeducationmatters 

Sep 24, 202323 min

Ep 53Inspiring your child to write with Jodie Foster

Today I am joined by children's author and educational psychologist Jodie Foster to discuss how to foster and then harness your child's love of writing. It's full of great advice for helping your child to put pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard!). Whether they're naturally interested in writing or resistant to writing, Jodie has some great tips to get you started in creating a happy, writing environment in your home ed world.

Sep 17, 202343 min

Ep 52Help your child feel Seen, Heard and Understood with Lainie Liberti

Today I am joined by the fabulous Lainie Liberti, bestselling author of Seen, Heard and Understood, a book which encourages us all to transform our family life. We discuss the idea of partnership parenting and the benefits of meeting your child exactly where they're at and in a way that wholly respects their sovereignty. Lainie answers some of the most common responses and criticisms of this approach, and shares some advice for how to apply this parenting style in everyday situations. Don't worry, it's not that we're doing it wrong, it's that we can maybe do it better. Check it out and don't forget to like, subscribe and rate our podcast if you enjoy it.

Sep 10, 20231h 0m

Ep 51Our very first ’Journey into Home Education’ - Ash’s Story

Join me for our first episode following the journey of Ash and her son as they embark on home education. Today we discuss deregistering, nervy moments, colour coded planning and even sneak in a quick 'quiz the teacher' round!

Sep 3, 202325 min

Ep 50Sharing Our Successes - From Home Education to NASA with Lauren

The second in our Sharing our Successes mini series is with the amazing Lauren, who was home educated up to 16 in the UK and then went on to do English and Astrophysics at university. The next time you see a post in a FB group asking for 'success stories' from home ed, this might be one to share. And much like our first Successes podcast with Liam, it's clear that home education is the foundation for Lauren's inspirational story. Do check it out and share it around.

Aug 27, 202329 min

Ep 49Helping your child get into a top tier university with Emma White

I am joined by the wonderful Emma White, home educating parent and founder of Mark My Papers, and we're discussing how to support your child if they choose to apply to a top tier university. We talk about the preparation in advance and the importance of planning your application years in advance, as well as the way to build a firm academic foundation in your home education journey. This is a must listen podcast for any home educating parent aiming to help their child apply to a Russell group / Oxbridge / top level university.

Aug 20, 20231h 26m

Ep 48Helping your child learn to read with Harriet, David and Jen

For today's podcast I am joined by experts Jen Shaw, David Oates and Harriet Pattison to discuss how best to support your child to learn to read. We cover the main school approaches to learning to read and its limitations, alongside the other reading options open to home educators (and all parents).From the great Reading War (in the red corner we have phonics, in the blue corner we have whole word learning, in between we have a lot of very befuddled parents!) all the way through to tips on getting started right now supporting your child, this is a fabulous podcast for anyone wanting to help their child feel empowered to pick up a book. If you enjoyed it, do rate our show on your preferred streaming platform and join all our guests on our dedicated FB group just for guests and listeners to the podcast. 

Aug 13, 20231h 13m

Ep 47The gift of nature in home education with The Farming Mother

Join Diane as she chats with Keeley, AKA The Farming Mother. It's a really inspirational podcast all about home educating through those tough times, and how nature and animals can bring you and your child something truly remarkable. 

Aug 6, 20231h 0m

Ep 46All about Autism with Diane and Tara Vassallo

Autism is hugely misunderstood and today we discuss the many benefits as well as the challenges of autism and home educating autistic children. Diane and I are joined by Tara Vassallo, lecturer in Education, specialising in Autism. We discuss spotting early signs of autism, supporting your autistic child, what role wider society plays, labels, integration, resilience and much more. If you'd like to join in the conversation, join us over in our FB group and don't forget that if you enjoyed this podcast please rate, like and subscribe. It really helps to get the word out!

Jul 30, 20231h 36m

Ep 45Using ChatGPT and other LLMs in your learning with Luke Dadford

We are excited to have Luke Dadford with us this week talking about Large Language Models, specifically the newly popular ChatGPT software. We discuss the good, the bad, the slightly terrifying and how you can use it to enhance your home education journey. 

Jul 23, 202330 min

Ep 44How Dungeons and Dragons can inspire your home education journey! with Chris Nicholls

Join Diane and Chris as they discuss the wonderful imaginative world of Dungeons and Dragons. From maths to creative thinking, strategy to team work, it's an amazing way to incorporate play into your learning journey. Chris is in our FB group so feel free to pop over and ask him any Dungeon related questions! And follow / subscribe to the podcast to get a notification when we do our follow up podcast with him guiding us through getting started with the game.

Jul 16, 20231h 4m

Ep 43News and updates with Eleanor

A little bonus mid week podcast just to let you all know some minor changes and also a big shout out to everyone around the world who tunes into the podcast. Wherever you are, I see you and appreciate you!Also, I announce a couple of changes and a few things to look forward to in the upcoming episodes.

Jul 12, 202314 min

Ep 42Latin and Greek for home educators with Ana Martin

Latin and Greek ... boring dead languages ... Think again! This podcast was a revelation to me on so many levels. I defy you not to be inspired to get your child (and yourself!) off and learning some ancient Greek and Latin. If only to have the chance to chit chat with your neighbours in a cool, niche language!Ana is in our FB group if you want any advice or tips on incorporating some Latin or Greek into your home schooling journey. https://www.facebook.com/groups/homeeducationmatters

Jul 9, 202348 min

Ep 41The use of Artificial Intelligence in Education with Michael Olagunju

Today I discuss the role of artificial intelligence in learning with Michael Olagunju, the head of Exam Solutions and Air Maths. Join us as we talk about the benefits and pitfall of AI use, how he's embedding ChatGPT style features into his platforms and what this tells us about the future of our schools, our education approach and how it might aid us in our home education journey. If you think any of your friends or family might find this podcast interesting, do share the link with them and spread the word on how home education provision is at the forefront of radical change in the education world.

Jul 2, 202354 min

Ep 40Sharing our Successes - Following your passions as a home educated teen with Liam

Sharing our successes within home education! Periodically, we feature interviews with home educated children and today we have a fabulous podcast with 14 year old Liam. As a home educated teen for the last six years, he is uniquely able to share with us just how being home schooled allows him to be able to follow his passions and interests. We discuss his escape from bullying within school to being able to prepare and plan for his ideal future. Liam is an inspirational young man and I am really pleased to be able to share this podcast with you all. [This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Jun 25, 202328 min

Ep 39When dog behaviourism meets progressive parenting - two worlds collide? With Jo Moorcroft

What can the world of dog behaviour teach us as parents? Is it all about compliance and control? Do I really want my child to sit on command??Join dog behaviourist, Jo Moorcroft, and I as we discuss what we can learn as home educating parents from the ever advancing world of dog training. Sounds like everything home educating isn't? You might be surprised! [This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Jun 18, 20231h 0m

Ep 38Preconceptions vs reality of home education

Today Diane and I have a fun and irreverent discussion about life as a home educator. We chat about our preconceptions of home education versus the reality of life as a home educating family. Ranging from the education aspect to community life, we take aim at our previously held beliefs and discuss how these have been challenged by the reality of being home educators. There's laughter, discussion and even a bit of controversy! [This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Jun 11, 202341 min

Ep 37Supporting your anxious child with Dr Naomi Fisher

It's great to be joined again by Dr Naomi Fisher as we discuss how best to support your anxious child. We discuss the anxieties inherent within our education system (in fact integral to them) and also lots of practical advice for how to help your child navigate their anxiety, coping with it as a family and supporting them through it and out the other side. [This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Jun 4, 20231h 13m

Ep 36From teaching to tuition with Andrea Gadsbey

Join Andrea and I as we discuss the crisis in teaching, how to shift from teaching to tutoring and the specific benefits of the home education sector. As a home ed parent, I discuss the things to look out for when choosing a tutor and Andrea gives some amazing insight into why she loves teaching home educated students and the differences in our approach to learning compared to school children.Whether you're a home ed parent looking at using tutors or a teacher wanting to shift into the home ed sector, this episode is a treasure trove of information.[This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

May 28, 20231h 25m

Ep 35Choosing your GCSEs with Katherine Sneep

Today I chat with Katherine Sneep from HomeMade Education about how to go about choosing your I/GCSE subjects. We discuss timing of subjects, favourite ones to start with and potential pitfalls of certain curriculum subjects. It's a great whizz-through exam choices for anyone with home educated children aged from 10 upwards. [This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

May 21, 20231h 6m

Ep 34Charlotte Mason Double Bill - Using the method up to and beyond exams with Diana Edwin

In the second of our Charlotte Mason double bill, I talk to Diana Edwin about how to take this popular approach and use it to help your child through their GCSEs and A levels. Often this educational approach is used by home educators with younger children but then gets dropped as the child nears exam age. Diana explains why the CM approach is an empowering way to retain your child's love of learning whilst also allowing them to get solid UK qualifications. [This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

May 14, 20231h 9m

Ep 33Charlotte Mason Double Bill - Introducing the Approach with Amanda Goodchild

In the first of our Charlotte Mason double bill, I talk to Amanda Goodchild about the benefits of using this approach with your home educated child. We discuss the details of the CM approach: what it is and what it isn't, and tell you everything you need to know to decide if it's the right route for you and your child.[This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

May 14, 202351 min

Ep 32EOTAS and EHCPs with Karen Bonthron

Today's episode covers all things you need to know about EHCPs for your EOTAS or home educated child, including how to get an EHCP, what can be included in one, how the process differs from when in school, how to carry over your EHCP from a school setting, and the benefits and negatives of getting one. Karen is in our FB group 'Home Education Matters' and happy to answer any questions you may have about your specific situation so do join us over there. [This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

May 7, 202346 min

Ep 31Who needs knowledge anyway?? With Maxwell Roach

"You're not going to walk around with a calculator in your pocket all your life" ... Or are we?Join Canadian education entrepreneur Maxwell Roach and I in our lively discussion on the role that actually knowing stuff plays in education. Do we need to know basic maths facts? Is the why more important than the what? Are some sectors of the population needed to just unquestioningly do grunt work? Is accelerated learning helpful or harmful?It's a fascinating and feisty discussion between two people with different educational ideologies. Check it out and tell us what side of the fence you fall on![This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Apr 30, 20231h 10m

Ep 30GCSE alternatives with Deborah Hayward

Tired of the limitations of GCSEs? Does your child not fit the narrow mold of our standard (and some might say, antiquated!) assessment system? Maybe you're looking for something without final exams or a system that is more inclusive of your child's preferences? Then this podcast is for you, as Debs and I discuss all the wonderful options out there that map across to GCSEs.Freedom and flexibility? You got it.[This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Apr 23, 202358 min

Ep 29Call it what you want! Home education styles with Helen Royston

Helen and I go through 26 (yes, 26!) different ways to home educate. From structured to unschooling, Charlotte Mason to Reggio Emilia, delight directed to tidal learning - we discuss each one, what it is and why it might work (or maybe not work) for you and your family.Home Education in all its variety! How do you do it? Is your approach on the list? Tell us in the comments and let us know.[This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Apr 16, 20231h 15m

Ep 28ICT and Computer Science with Holly Billinghurst

Harness your child's techy brain and find out what various qualifications are open to them. In this podcast, I am joined by Holly from TeachAllAboutIT to discuss all things tech education. From gaming courses and internet safety to GCSE and A level Computer Science, we deep dive into specifications and syllabi to discover what options your home educated child has. [This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Apr 9, 202355 min

Ep 27Home Education 101 with Juliet English

Today's episode is a whistlestop tour through all the things you need to know about home education. We cover:deregisteringyour rights and responsibilitiesreport writingdealing with your local authorityqualifications and college entrydifferent home ed approachesdeschoolingsitting examsother people's judgementhow to engage your child in the processThis is an amazing episode full of information and advice to arm you on your home education journey.[This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Apr 2, 20231h 8m

Ep 26Want to home educate but worried about taking the plunge? Your questions answered.

Diane and I discuss some of the most common questions that parents have when considering home education, from "Am I clever enough?" to "But isn't it really boring??" we answer all your questions openly and honestly. If your question isn't answered, comment below and we'll answer it for you.[This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Mar 26, 202358 min

Ep 25Juggling work and home educating - a group discussion with home educators who also run their own business

Join me as I chat with home educating businesswomen Kate Symonds, Claire Hirst and Veronica Williams. From imposter syndrome to spinning never ending plates, we talk about the challenges and enormous benefits of working from home while home educating your children.[This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Mar 19, 20231h 10m

Ep 24Screen use with Dr Naomi Fisher - the good, the bad and the ugly

I'm very excited to be joined by Dr Naomi Fisher today, author of hugely popular home education book: Changing our Minds. Join us as we discuss unschooling and the delicate balance between protection and freedom. We look at teen development and educating with respect and equality, with a focus on screen use.Have you ever wondered how to incorporate screen use into your family with honour but also caution? This is a fabulous episode which really dives into the difficulties but also the privileges of parenting our home educated children.[This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Mar 12, 20231h 7m

Ep 23US qualifications in the UK - Part 2 - The AP vs A level debate

This second part of our discussion on the US system and how it can be applied to UK home educators sees me chat with Helen Harrold and Jenni Cassidy about their AP offering. Providing an option for British home educated children to combine a High School Diploma with APs in order to attend the very best universities in Britain, join us as we discuss the benefits of AP qualifications compared to A levels. [This podcast is very much a labour of love, but it's also both a costly and time consuming process ... if you'd like to Buy Me a Coffee - no obligation at all! - you can do so here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/HomeEducation]

Mar 5, 20231h 12m

Ep 22US qualifications in the UK - Part 1 - The High School Diploma vs GCSEs

Michele Holmes is on a mission to bring the High School Diploma to UK home educators. Join me as I chat with Michele about why she thinks the American system is perfectly suited to British home educators, and how it equates across to our UK system of GCSEs. No exams, broader range of subjects and parental assessments ... sounds too good to be true? Have a listen and find out!Breaking news ... I managed to wangle listeners to the podcast a $75 discount using code HOMEED75 at https://homeschooldirective.com/program?orid=53&opid=1

Mar 5, 20231h 13m