heretics.

For video clips, follow me - andrewgold_ok - on Twitter or Instagram. A close friend of former prime minister David Cameron and Chancellor George Osborne, Daniel Finkelstein is a conservative peer and Times political columnist who has just released a collection of his best articles entitled Everything in Moderation. As I said to him in my email asking him on the show, the title of his book is the antithesis in every way to the podcast’s epithet of On the Edge. But, having read Daniel’s insightful book, which I’d recommend to everyone looking to get a sense of perspective - it does correspond with many of my views about the world. When I have a psychopath, a paedophile or a cult member on this podcast, the idea is not to celebrate or promote their ideas, but often to show the perils of living life too far on the edge, too close to precipice. That’s why I like to round off those edges every other week by hearing from thought leaders – we’ve had anti-woke scholars Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay, futurist Zoltan Istvan – and this week I’m interviewing feminist Helen Lewis. But right now I’m honoured to introduce Daniel Finkelstein, a conservative who is perhaps known for his uber modernist beliefs. He runs counter to the stereotype of the old-fashioned Tory, with liberal views on pretty much everything. With a father who had been exiled in Siberia and a mother who was a survivor of Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, he grew up able with a clear grasp on the perils of the extremes and the safety and liberties extended by the centre. He’s centre-right, and I ask him what makes a conservative and why so many people find them repellent. We talk about what he said to actor Martin Freeman and what it’s like down the pub with David Cameron and George Osborne. What was really going on in Cameron’s mind when he confused his football team of Aston Villa with West Ham. He also talks about prime minister Boris Johnson, with rumours abound about his stepping down in the coming months. To non-Brits or those who aren’t politically minded, there are some parts that delve into the nitty gritty, but Daniel does speak a lot about accessible and universal concepts. This is not a political podcast – and I’d be totally out of my depth framing it as such – it’s the type of podcast where I ask ‘Hey, what actually is a Lord?’ and ‘Which footie team DOES David Cameron support.’ As a writer, Daniel is not afraid to pluck cases from the popular or low-brow zeitgeist to make broader political points, and I hope you feel this podcast reflects that accessibility. By the way, thanks again for listening and recommending this pod to friends. It’s only a few months old but just entered the top 2 of Apple’s documentary section in the UK. It’s in their prestigious New and Noteworthy category too right now, so I’m delighted to welcome all the new listeners. Please make sure to leave a review in the Apple Podcasts app. If you use another app, don’t worry, there’s no homework – just enjoy. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One day, as she was on her way to take the kids out the house, Mary Turner Thomson received a phone call that was about to turn her life upside down. The woman on the other end was her husband Will Jordan’s other wife. I’m barely scratching the surface in this intro, as I think she tells it best, and I’d also really like you to get hold of her book, The Bigamist. But she agrees it’s not a spoiler to tell you that Will is a psychopath; he had at least two wives and 5 fiancées while with her; those are just the ones Mary knows about, as well as more than a dozen children. He explained his long absences by saying he was a spy, and went to extraordinary lengths to prove it. He mutilated parts of his own body to show he’d been out fighting a secret war, and appeared to get old friends to collude in his lies, calling Mary and appearing to be part of his life in the secret services. Will was imprisoned but is now out doing his psychopath stuff to other unsuspecting victims. It’s just about the craziest story I’ve ever heard, and you’re about to hear some of the most unbelievable parts about the ways he managed to extract money from her and the other women in his life. In the aftermath, Mary wrote The Bigamist, detailing the whole saga, and has just written a follow-up called The Psychopath, where she goes into more detail about what it is to be one – so get hold of that in March when it comes out – until then, you can satiate your psycho desire with my earlier podcast with M.E. Thomas, who is one herself. Mary’s story was also the inspiration for The Psychopath Test, by Jon Ronson, who toured afterwards with her. By the way, I’ve been asking people to review – and this week people started kicking off at me, going there’s nowhere to review. So, I realised you can only really do that on Apple Podcasts. But whichever platform you use, please subscribe and check out the videos I post to Twitter and Instagram – my account is andrewgold_ok. Next week, we’ll hear from Conservative peer – he’s actually a lord – Daniel Finkelstein. But now it’s Mary, and she’s having one of those days. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Follow the pod's social media for video teasers: https://twitter.com/AndrewGold_ok or https://www.instagram.com/andrewgold_ok/. James Lindsay is a colleague of Helen Pluckrose, who was on the podcast just a few weeks ago. Together with Peter Boghossian, the group faked woke – or social justice – academic papers and got them published in prestigious journals. These included bogus ideas like that dogs engage in rape culture and that men could become less transphobic by inserting things up their back passage. The idea was to show that there is a bias in academia towards social justice ideas. James has a doctorate in math(s) – there’s an S at the end the word, American listeners – and a background in physics. He also has a huge following on Twitter, and recently caused a storm by arguing that 2+2 does indeed equal 4. This may sound obvious, but his critics, including many respected academics have been suggesting it could also equal 5 – in a worrying echo of the kind of doublethink described in George Orwell’s 1984. James is suggesting that this is part of the problem with how woke people think, and how they’ll twist words and meaning to suit their agenda. This week, James and Helen have a book coming out; it’s called Cynical Theories: How Activist Scholarship Made Everything about Race, Gender, and Identity—and Why This Harms Everybody. Make sure to get hold of it. The podcast does get a little mathematical early on, and if you listen closely, you can actually hear the moment my brain begins to melt, just as he talks about two concatenated ones. But we do start to move away from maths after a few minutes. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Follow me on Twitter for short video highlights: https://twitter.com/AndrewGold_ok On today’s show is Mark Meechan, known online as Count Dankula. In 2016, he made a YouTube video showing how he taught his girlfriend’s beloved pug Buddha to do a Nazi salute – a Sieg Heil – on his command. His command was Gas the Jews. The video quickly went viral, and Mark was arrested and charged with committing a hate crime. He spent time in jail and was fined; a fine he refused to pay. As he’ll explain in more detail, Mark was fired from his job and pretty much unemployable by anyone who had Google. Which is obviously everyone. However, things have recently picked up for him; every time he is mentioned in the paper, his YouTube channel grows – and he now has over 100 million views. He also has 250,000 followers on Twitter, who enjoy his brand of shock humour much in line with the initial Hitler dog routine. They’re a strange bunch his followers – when he shared a photo promoting this podcast, many of them followed me and asked if I could send them photos of Mark’s penis – or if not – my own. I politely declined. I hope some of you newbies are here listening today and will stick around – they’re part of a strange online world in the dark corners of the web full of jokes and memes I don’t quite understand. But it’s not just in the obscure recesses of computer-world where Mark has made his mark. He is often talked about by famous mainstream advocates of free speech, including Ricky Gervais, who brought him up once again just this week. I remember when I heard about the dog joke at the time, I imagined a horrible neo-Nazi, so had little sympathy for him, even if it seemed strange he was being arrested for a joke. Meechan was later in the UK Independence Party, or UKIP, and had some association with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson and American far-right radio presenter Alex Jones, all of which further convinced me his apple was of the bad variety. He refutes this image, and says most of his friends are on the Left; he was nice enough to give me his time to do this podcast, so the least I could do was give him a fair hearing with an open mind. We have a bit of a chat about free speech, humour, offence and where these things collide. Should any joke be illegal? Mark certainly doesn’t think so, and I’m inclined to agree. It seems pretty crazy how the whole thing blew up, and a waste of everyone’s time and money. It can set some bad precedents…that doesn’t mean I give Mark a free pass. Just as I believe strongly in his right to make those jokes, I value my right to criticise them and say they’re in bad taste. For example, a recent video he posted mocking the Beirut explosion might be particularly hurtful for people who’ve just lost loved ones. It may not be illegal, but I consider that worthy of criticism at the least. And he’s perfectly entitled to tell me he doesn’t care. We do get distracted while talking about the Nazi pug incident, and end up waffling about free speech for a while, and come back to his arrest and jail time at the end. Which is fine, because you always listen to the end anyway. Don’t you. Next week is a chat with another controversial American scholar James Lindsay, who has pretty much blown up Twitter by claiming that 2+2=4. In an Orwellian turn, hundreds of thousands of Left-Wing academics have been suggesting the equation actually equals 5, and we believe it’s 4 because of something to do with colonisation. But for now, we’re in Scotland with Count Dankula discussing whether jokes and fried mars bars are offensive. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Catch video clips on @andrewgold_ok on Twitter or Instagram! This is one of my favourite topics ever, so you’re in for a treat. I’ve managed to get a real-life psychopath on the show – M. E. Thomas is the pseudonym of the writer of Confessions of a Psychopath. Having read Jon Ronson’s Psychopath Test a few years ago, and grown up on such films as Silence of the Lambs, American Psycho and later, No Country for Old Men and Nightcrawler, I became fascinated by them. I guess those movies make you think of a psycho killer, qu’est-ce que c’est, but apparently most psychopaths or sociopaths – who are said to make up 1% of the population – aren’t that interested in murdering. They just totally lack empathy. In fact, I’m amazed to learn from M.E. or ‘me’ about just how little is known about them, and she presents some theories I’ve never heard. Check the podcast twitter page for video trailers, which I always post there…M.E. is, however, a blurred figure behind a layer of Sellotape covering her webcam. Still, it’s worth a look, to see the fear in my eyes, if nothing else. There are indeed a couple of moments where I take some risks, but I think we get on OK, even if she wouldn’t care if I died. Please make sure to write a little review – those push you up the Apple charts. And tell some friends to get listening. Next week, I’ve got Mark Meechan, the Scottish comedian who taught his dog to do a Hitler salute in reaction to the phrase ‘Do you wanna gas the Jews’. He was arrested, sparking a worldwide debate about free speech and the right to cause offence. Tricky subject – next week. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Firstly, let me just say I’m delighted to have Josh Friend from internationally acclaimed Modestep on the show. He’s actually an old friend of mine – and certainly the most famous of anyone I knew growing up, and an extremely talented guy – it’s a great podcast, as he really speaks his mind and doesn’t mince his words. In the UK this week, a leading rapper known as the godfather of the grime sub-genre, Wiley (who Josh knows), went on an anti-Semitic tirade on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and wherever else he could get his message out. A tirade is being kind, as it was about as subtle as Mein Kampf; I don’t’ say that with hyperbole; the things he said had nothing to do with the typical criticism of Israel or Zionism, this was straight up, the Jews are slippery, the Jews are like the KKK, and the Jews need to be shot and killed. He called out for the ‘top Jew’ to come and speak with him, and he very nearly came on this podcast – but didn’t turn up to the Zoom meeting. Josh Friend is a musician, the main man of Modestep – look them up, you’ll know their tunes, really eclectic and original stuff. He has worked with Wiley, he knows him, he knows his character - and it’s a fairly damning report. But what’s fascinating about talking with him, is we get a look into where Wiley’s racism comes from. I'm upset this is overshadowing what would have been an interview more focussed on the music industry and Josh’s place within it, and the amazing work Modestep have done. But, I also feel lucky i was able to catch up with him at this time. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Trigger warning: This one is going to alienate some people – the woke among you - but this is a safe space for open discussion. Today, I speak with Helen Pluckrose, author of the new book Cynical Theories and an anti-woke scholar who was part of a team that composed fake papers to highlight poor scholarship across academic fields. They created these bogus academic papers on things like dogs engage in rape culture, men can cure their transphobia by inserting something up their back passage and that mein kampf be translated using feminist language. Many of these hoax papers were indeed published by leading journals, leaving them red-faced both metaphorically and politically. Communism joke there… In the wake of the J.K. Rowling trans debate and the hijacking of the Black Lives Matter movement by anti-Zionist organisations, Helen talks to me about the dangers of woke culture and the hierarchy it creates between different groups. She says the woke or social justice system places trans and certain races at the top, with Jews - like myself – firmly at the bottom, just below women, gay men and lesbians, who are increasingly getting a rough time. In the past few days we’ve had UK grime music star Wiley tweeting incessantly about how the Jews are slippery and lots of other horrible stuff…I very nearly had him on this podcast and was even waiting in the Zoom call – but he didn’t show up. Before we start, I’d just like to apologise to my dad Neil Gold, for swearing on the last two podcasts…he gets very upset about it, and by listening, you’ve all been complicit in my micro-aggressions. You thought I was going to swear there. Always keep ‘em guessing. You fff… See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, we peer behind the curtain of the life of ex-Muslim Ray - founder of the counter-extremism non-profit, The Committee to Protect Muslims and Ex-Muslims. Disclaimer: this is by no means an attack on Islam, just as the episode with Emily Green the Hasidic Jew was not an attack on Judaism. Both episodes are simply a case of giving a platform to women who were suppressed, harassed and threatened by their families and the extreme sides of their culture. Before I continue about Ray: thanks so much for your continued support and all the messages – I love it, so do get in touch on Twitter or wherever. In just six weeks, we’ve gone from 50 listeners a week to a couple of thousand, and growing fast. All I ask of you is that you go to the place you download this and see if you can review it and give it some love, it helps with all the charts and analytics and stuff. Ray and I have been online pen pals for a while. Now a prominent ex-Muslim speaker on the perils of extremism, Ray – who moved to the UK from Bangladesh - is still stalked by her family and wider members of Islamist extremist groups who believe in the blasphemy law. She is also attacked online by both the far-left and the far-right – so, not an enviable position. Her family abused her throughout childhood, and when she was 26 her father urged her to drink two bottles of unknown medicine, suggesting if she drink them, she’ll die. He then violently assaulted her, prompting her to leave her family for the UK. She’s been in constant communication with the police; and I reached her at her current safe house. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Matthew F. Collins, a former racist turned spy and author. In 1993, he raided a town meeting in the Welling Library with the British National Party – not known to be very nice people. He found himself changed by the senseless violence, and became a mole for the Searchlight and Hope Not Hate anti-racist organisations. In 2018, it was in his role running the intelligence network and recruitment of far-right extremists for Hope not Hate that he helped to prevent the assassination of British politician Rosie Cooper – an attempted murder that reminded the UK of Joe Cox, who was tragically killed two years earlier. Jack Renshaw, the baby-faced spokesman of terrorist group National Action had bought a machete to carry out the murder, and will serve at least 20 years in prison. I was interested in Matthew because he has some fascinating tales, but also because he encapsulates the human tendency to follow the stories we’re told about ourselves as well as our capacity for change. For a more detailed look at his life, read his books Hate: My Life in the British Far Right and Nazi Terrorist. I found him a no-nonsense mood that also reflects how we’re all beginning to feel after months of lockdown. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is probably one for the football fans, but it's also a look into how to grow a social media channel and cross over into TV. Robbie Lyle of Arsenal Fan TV created his own channel in 2012 and it now has more a million followers. He can't walk the streets without being greeted by fans - and that goes for China and other parts of the world just as much as it does the UK. AFTV has attracted criticism from high profile fans and players, former and current, who claim the show profits from the teams defeats. Robbie has always flatly denied this accusation. I ask him about it and point out that 16 of his top-20 videos came after defeats, because his regular fellow fans get so angry that it brings in rival fans out of schadenfreude. We also have a great chat about his surprise upon meeting Spurs player Harry Kane, before Robbie gives his opinion and recounts person stories on everyone from Wenger and Lacazette to Kanu and Xhaka. He talks about the racist abuse he received at Spurs, and how the club got in touch with the YouTuber afterwards. And we get into life on the road and how it affects his kids. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I don't want to go into this one too much, because it's a topic that is just too controversial and awful, and you'll make your own minds up. That said, I thought it was important to approach it, so that we can learn about these people...and how to keep our children safe from them. This is in no way a plea to take the act involved more lightly; it is in fact a plea for us to understand it and find a way to root it out. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a special and important one because I got to talk to Race Cooper, a former porn star, who told me all about racism in the industry. Now a personal trainer and fitness model, Race worked for the illustrious gay porn company Falcon Studios, where he told me he suffered racism in many different forms. Amid the Black Lives Matter movement, Race signed off a tweet and an Insta post decrying the hypocrisy and the racial prejudice in the porn industry. He blew up in a big way and was even interviewed by Pink News. He still goes by his stage name of Race - which he initially picked as a test that he believes the porn industry failed. He’s a thoroughly nice fella, he’s good company, he’s bright and determined to help change things. And he taught me a lot about subtle forms of systemic racism and the highs and lows of porn. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ever wonder who the world's first ever blogger was? The first blog in history was links.net, published by Justin Hall. And I was lucky enough to get an interview with him for the fourth episode of the Andrew Gold Podcast. From the Kardashians and One Direction to Kelly Clarkson and Donald Trump, every influencer and reality star owes a debt to Justin Hall, the world’s first ever blogger. If over-sharing online has become a disease, I like to think of Justin as Patient Zero of our Social Influenza. And yet, you’ve probably never heard of him. His is a tale of the cautionary variety. When he was just 8, his father killed himself in a corner of the family home. Justin went to therapy, where he developed a penchant for oversharing to anyone who’d listen, judge and advise. The Web came around at just the right time, allowing him an outlet for these thoughts and feelings. For some time, he was the darling of the early web and he amassed a following in the tens of thousands in the early 90s. Steadfast in his commitment to document every minor and major detail in his life and lay himself bear, he…quite literally lay himself bear, his sexy pornographic photos juxtaposing well with images of his flaccid, infected penis – a work of art he calls Cat Dick. As friends and family began to call him out for writing about them on the net, Justin fell apart, leading to the breakdown video you heard at the top of this recording. You’ll find that, along with everything else, on his blog, links.net, which has been running since 1993 in its original format. It’s a digital museum. The highlights of his story include the time he travelled across the States to meet his fans and teach them to make their own websites – and the time he had a physical altercation with writer Kurt Vonnegut. All of this has led him, I’m pleased and humbled to say, to a conversation ON THIS PODCAST about how it all began, what led to his breakdown and how he sees the future of online sharing, blogging and influencing. We also talk about Cat Dick. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Former Orthodox Jewish Woman tells Andrew Gold on episode 3 of the Andrew Gold Podcast about what it was like growing up in the Hasidic community, an extreme branch of the Jewish Orthodox group. Having broken out of the cult, she talks of the difficulties she had taking her children with her and compares it to the struggles of the protagonist in Netflix's Unorthodox, we she watched a little uncomfortably with her children. She started Gesher EU, an organisation that, like New York's Footsteps, helps other Orthodox men and women to leave the sect and adjust to a new life in 'the real world'. If you're struggling with these issues and want to leave the community - or if you know someone you could help - contact them here: http://www.geshereu.org.uk/ Please do subscribe to the channel for more riveting entertainment of this kind, with the world's first ever blogger, Justin Hall, on next week's podcast. Find me on Twitter and Instagram on @andrewgold_ok See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you want to live forever? I know I do. Here, Zoltan Istvan - a leading light in the Transhumanist movement - believes we can move beyond our physical human limitations (hence the trans-human name) and into an age of immortality. Welcome to my second ever podcast, which is double the number of my first one last week. If you missed that, do go back and listen, it was an absolute belter with Nate Phelps, defector from the Westboro Baptist Church. But now, I hope I don’t sound too much like a sycophant when I tell you how I excited I am to introduce my chat with Zoltan Istvan. Zoltan is frankly one of the most interesting people in the world. He believes very strongly that we can and will achieve immortality – far sooner than many of us may think. While some people – who Zoltan calls Deathists – find the idea of living forever abhorrent, many of us see it as our saving grace. The very idea has sparked thousands of years of religious practices, traditions…and war. Essentially, we don’t want to die. And former National Geographic correspondent Zoltan is at the forefront of that movement. Like a futuristic evangelist, he tours the US in the so-called Immortality Bus – shaped like a coffin - promoting the concept that death is a merely a disease waiting to be cured. He opens doors with a chip in his hand, has written sci-fi novels and is currently making a documentary about the immortality industry. In our chat, he tells me about how he just ran for president, how he believes we can bring people back from the dead through something called quantum archaeology and tells me what inspired him to want to live forever. He’s great company and full of enthusiasm, so I hope by the end of this episode, you’ll also want him to stick around. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the first episode of On the Edge with Andrew Gold. This being the inaugural one, I should probably tell you a little about myself and the podcast. I’m a documentary maker and TV presenter by trade. You can watch my documentary about an abusive exorcist in Argentina on YouTube or BBC iPlayer, and I’ve made films on everything from UFOs and porn to abortion and infidelity. Over the years, with my documentary hat on, I connected with so many people on the edge of society who I found absolutely fascinating, but didn’t quite fit the stories that TV channels were looking for, so I thought, why not bring these characters to you via a podcast. In my first ever episode, I talk to Nate Phelps, the son of Gramps Phelps - from America's Most Hated Family: the Westboro Baptist Church. Brother of Shirley Phelps and son of Fred 'Gramps' Phelps, Nate is now an LGBT advocate and an extremely lovely and thoughtful guy. He is a defector from the Westboro Baptist Church sect from Topeka, Kansas. The cult, which is also known as America's Most Hated Family, became infamous in the 1990s for its campaigns in which they'd picket funerals of military personnel as a bizarre and illogical protest against homosexuality. And now, with more church members defecting, we're approaching the baptist church death. Their signs at the pickets usually claimed that 'god hates f***' (a homophobic slur), but also took aim at such celebrities as Princess Diana and Louis Theroux, who made three BBC documentaries about the Kansas-based cult. Nate was indoctrinated with the church’s homophobic philosophy and made to listen to his father’s preaching from the moment he left the womb. After doubts began to rise in his mind, he escaped his father’s church at midnight on his 18th birthday in a terrifying account you’ll hear him relay. He was left to fend for himself, confused, scared and alone, his mind still consumed by the teachings of his abusive cult leader of a father. This led him to do some bad things, once out of the church, which he discusses openly. He now speaks as a public advocate of LGBT rights and is a prominent member of the hub of secular thought, the Center for Inquiry. In our conversation, I find him charming, penitent and single-minded in his defence of civil liberties. He discusses his meeting with Louis Theroux, the brutal abuse with a medieval instrument at the hands of his tyrannical father and the intelligence, wit and humour of his sister and mouthpiece for the church, Shirley. He tells me what really went down with his supposedly repentant dad and the LGBT Rainbow House across the street from the church, and he reveals what he tells his children about the church he grew up in. As we speak, I find it hard to believe that I’m speaking to a man who – even after leaving the church - has would physically attack gay men … and, as explains, some of those demons remain deep within. This is my very first podcast, so I was delighted to have such a fascinating and charming person on the show. Like most of us, I've always had a strange fascination around the Westboro Baptist Church, and as we discuss, I think part of that is down the cruel and acerbic wit and intelligence behind their bonkers theories and religious drivel. Like a car crash, you can't help but look. I hope you feel the same about our chat, and like and subscribe to be updated about my next guests in the coming weeks. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices