Episode 222- Beware The Illegal PD Paperwork “Trap”

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Gun lawyer, concealed carry, firearm license, Summit PD, survey form, constitutional rights, police

misconduct, carry permit, gun violence prevention, executive orders, Second Amendment, gun rights,

sensitive places, airsoft gun parts, 3D printing.

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, John, Teddy Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:15

I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. Today on the show, we have Teddy Nappen, who will

be doing his Press Checks segment. Hello, Teddy.

Teddy Nappen 00:30

You keep bringing me back. I don’t know why.

Evan Nappen 00:31

I do. I know. By public demand. But before Teddy does his segment and we talk about a lot of very

interesting things, we have a special guest today in the studio, and that is John. And John is from

Summit, New Jersey, and he has a very interesting story to tell about what happened to him. I think

listeners should listen to what he has to say and beware. So, John, welcome to Gun Lawyer.

John 01:09

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Evan Nappen 01:11

My pleasure, John. So, tell me what happened in Summit. First of all, what did you apply for, a firearm

license? What did you apply for?

John 01:23

Yes, so it’s the concealed carry. I already had it for the two years, and I was reapplying. I guess, you

know. The expiration date was coming up, and so I reapplied for it. I got a phone call from the sergeant

there. I guess he’s relatively new, because I didn’t recognize him. He didn’t really know me, and I know

most of the people there. And he informed me to come on down and pick up. Everything was ready for

pickup.

Evan Nappen 01:58

Okay, so let me stop you right there. So, you tried for your carry permit renewal, and you did so via the

state police. You did so online, correct?Page – 2 – of 18

John 02:11

That’s correct.

Evan Nappen 02:13

As I’m sure you know, the permits, when they’re granted, are sent to you online. They’re emailed to you

essentially, right?

John 02:22

That’s also correct.

Evan Nappen 02:24

So, here the Summit PD is telling you to come in to pick up your permit to carry and that it’s all ready,

right? That’s what you were told.

John 02:36

That’s exactly right. It threw me for a loop, but right. So, I proceeded to go see them, yup.

Evan Nappen 02:42

So, you went down there with the understanding that you were going to go there, and just for some

reason, pick up your carry permit physically at the PD. And what happened when you got there?

John 02:55

The gentleman, he came out. I waited about a half an hour. He came out, and he had a sheet of paper

with him. You know, prior to getting off the phone, when he told me to come pick it up, he says, oh, and

by the way, I have a couple of questions, a survey, for you to fill out. And I go, oh, okay.

Evan Nappen 03:16

He called it a survey.

John 03:18

Yeah.

Evan Nappen 03:19

Is that like, you know, like doing, like a Google rating or something? We have a survey. Do a review. I

mean, what the hell a survey? Okay.

John 03:27

It threw me for a loop. I didn’t understand it. But I say, all right, you know what? Let me go see what’s

going on. So, I do.

Teddy Nappen 03:35

Did you give him a one star?Page – 3 – of 18

Evan Nappen 03:37

Yeah, right, yeah. One star. So, when you look at the, so you walked in, and then you waited a half an

hour. What happened when you met him?

John 03:50

The sergeant comes out, he tells me who he is, and he has the sheet of paper and a pen. He, you

know, asked me to come over and fill it out. And there were either nine or 10 questions. I can’t

remember exactly on that form. And, you know, one of the questions is like, do you want to hurt anyone

presently? They asked about blunt trauma or something along those lines, or something like that. And

you know, there was a yes and no. Right down the list. And so.

Evan Nappen 04:26

Did you have to sign it?

John 04:28

I did. I did. I had to sign it. And so I’m thinking, okay, after I completed this series of questions, he’s

going to turn around and give me my credentials. Well, he then turns and says, well, he goes. I said, so

where’s my, where’s my, you know, credential? He goes, oh, no, we email that. We’ll email you that

credential. You know, we don’t give it to you. We don’t physically handed to you. And I said, well, that’s

what you said on the phone. He goes, oh, no, we don’t do that anymore. And he’s, like, proceeding to

go back in the office area. Like, you know, kind of blowing me off a little bit. And I’m like confused

standing there, and I’m going, what? What just happened here? Yeah, I just didn’t understand it.

Evan Nappen 05:17

Did he give you a copy of what you signed?

John 05:21

He did not. He did not.

Evan Nappen 05:22

Did you ask him for a copy?

John 05:25

I did not. I didn’t think of it until I got home and I go, wait, I should have asked him for a copy. So, no, I

didn’t ask him to be fair.

Evan Nappen 05:34

So, what you have here is a police department adding to the form for getting a carry license, and that is

not something found in the statute. This is not part of what their authority is for them to do. They can’t

just go on fishing expeditions like this. So, this extra form is improper, and not only that. They’re

creating another hurdle so that if you never got down there to do their “survey”, your license would be

getting further delayed. This is the kind of abuse that has to end. It is not how our laws are structured.

We have a uniform system for carry licensing since the Bruen decision, and we’re talking about a

Constitutional right. You were going to say something?Page – 4 – of 18

John 06:42

Absolutely. I felt that something was wrong. Because going back to the phone call, I was told

everything’s ready to be picked up. Come on down and, you know, pick up your credentials. So, when I

got there, it just felt underhanded in some kind of way. And the reason I say that is because, you know,

the sergeant basically baited me, in a sense, to tell me, hey, come pick up your things. You know, pick

up your credentials. But when I got there, it was, now he says, oh, no, we email it.

Evan Nappen 07:15

Yeah. So, you know, he basically, frankly, lied to you. Flat out, he lied to you. He misrepresented why

he wanted you to go down there, and then concealed the actual reason by calling this unauthorized

form a “survey”. He made you believe that you were just going to go down there and pick up your

license, which was untrue, and this is not how police should behave. I mean, we should be able to

believe our officers. They shouldn’t be misrepresenting to the public, to you, to applicants, to their

constituents. They’re supposed to just follow the law and not mislead and create added burdens of both

forms, your time, having to go there and to do this. It was wrong. It was wrong for them to lie to you. It

was wrong for them to put this forward, and I really am glad that you had the courage to share this with

folks. And if anybody else has experienced these kind of activities when trying to get the ability to

exercise your Constitutional rights, get a hold of me like John did. The best thing to do is to publicize it

and let it be known about departments that behave this way. So, John, thank you very much for sharing

the story.

Teddy Nappen 08:51

I have a couple questions.

Evan Nappen 08:53

Go ahead. Sure.

Teddy Nappen 08:54

My first question is, when you were there, and then he said, okay, can you do this survey, was there?

Did you any make any attempt to say no or like, why would I, why am I doing this? Is there. I’m not. I’m

just asking, kind of, like, was there very much like, oh, you need to do this in order to get your permit

from this guy.

John 09:15

Well, so, right, right. So, the way it was presented to me on the phone was, hey, you know, come and

pick up your credentials. And, oh, by the way, I have a survey or a questionnaire, whatever he called it

exactly, for you to fill out. So, I’m thinking, okay, maybe this is a part of the new procedures. You know,

I didn’t really study the law to the letter, so I’m a little gray in that area. I’m a little hairy in there. So, I’m

thinking, okay, maybe this is just something new that they’re doing. You know. Okay, sure, fine. I didn’t

really push back and ask them, do I need to fill this out? Or why am I? I didn’t really. I just thought, you

know, it was part of the new procedure or something. So, I just went with it. No big deal. But then again,

the way it was presented was, I got this questionnaire, and then, yeah, everything’s ready to be picked

up. So, I’m figuring after I do this questionnaire or survey, he’s going to then turn and hand me myPage – 5 – of 18

credentials. But he says, oh, well, the chief has to approve this. And once the chief approves it, we’re

going to email it to you. But again, going back to the original call, that’s not what was stated for me to

come down to the precinct, if that makes any sense.

Teddy Nappen 10:32

I got you.

Evan Nappen 10:32

And how long has it been since you went there now?

John 10:37

So, this was, what? Two ago, yeah.

Evan Nappen 10:42

And you still haven’t received your permit yet.

John 10:47

Nothing. I checked the emails before I jumped on the call. Nothing.

Evan Nappen 10:51

All right. Again, it’s good to put the disinfectant of light and truth on what’s going on. These kind of

abuses really have to stop. We’re talking about a Constitutional right. It’s a uniform system, and being

lied to and kind of conned into this is wrong. Although this is not the case in this situation, folks should

know that when you go to the police voluntarily, for any reason, and not that this is a criminal

investigation. This wasn’t criminal for you. But it doesn’t matter. If you go to the police voluntarily, you’re

not in custody, and if you’re not in custody, you don’t have to be read your Miranda rights. So, often as

a tactic, police will create other false narratives, false reasons to have you come down to the station,

and that gives them a free hand to question you about something you may not even be aware of, and

question you without having to read you Miranda rights, even though it may, in fact be a criminal

investigation. Of course, this was not that. This is just abusing your Second Amendment rights as

opposed to a criminal investigation. But still, individuals should be aware that if you’re ever asked to

come down to the police because they want to talk to you about anything, you should say, hey, I’ll talk

to my lawyer, and I’ll have them call you. Don’t make any statements, because there is no Miranda

requirement in those situations, and that’s a common tactic used by police to subvert you being read

your rights. Okay. Thanks again. Go ahead, Teddy. Go ahead.

Teddy Nappen 12:37

This kind of reminds me of, I think it was either a case you dealt with, or another one. This is how

effective they are lying there. How they are able to lie to people. In the early days when fax machines,

when people didn’t know what they were. And so this guy is in interrogation, and one of the cops gets

the idea, and he brings it into the room, in the interrogation room, and he says, do you know what this

is?Page – 6 – of 18

Evan Nappen 13:05

Actually, he brings him to the to the machine.

Evan Nappen 13:08

Because there’s a big office type, uh, machine. And what they did was they, as you said, they told him it

was a lie detector machine. And what they had done is taken a piece of paper and wrote in big black

magic marker letters the word “lie” on the document on top of the machine. Now he didn’t know this.

They would ask him a question, and then they’d hit the print button. But he thought it was a lie detector.

It would spit out a piece of paper, and then they showed it to him say, “lie”. You just lied. The machine

knows. They keep asking questions, and every time they hit the button, it spit out the word “lie”. That’s

how they interrogated him and broke him on it. Yeah, yeah, that’s a good story. I remember.

Teddy Nappen 13:08

Yeah.

John 13:51

Pretty interesting.

Evan Nappen 13:52

I’m glad you reminded me about that.

John 13:54

Now, the one thing I will say really quick is that this guy, apparently, is a newer guy in that role.

Because with the previous guys, I never had a problem. They know me. When I apply for gun permits,

they know who I am. Everything, generally is smooth. But this guy, I just think he’s newer at the spot,

and I don’t know what he’s doing, but

Evan Nappen 14:16

Maybe he made up this form. He made it up, right? Maybe he made it up and is going to be the hot shot

making up a new form for doing this job. I don’t know how it came about, but it’s a good question. How

did this form come about, and why? Look, in order to get your carry, you had to get your CCARE. You

already had the training and your core competency with your firearm, and you were taught

John 14:48

That’s correct.

Evan Nappen 14:49

Justification, use of force, etc. So, all that’s already a done deal by state process in the uniform system.

So, those things. You don’t need to be suddenly given a quiz on your knowledge of deadly force or

asked other questions about anything that isn’t part of the statewide uniform licensing system that we

have. Our statewide system is bad enough, and these other things shouldn’t be happening. Okay.

John 15:25

Evan.Page – 7 – of 18

Evan Nappen 15:26

Go ahead.

John 15:26

Yeah, I’m sorry, one last thing.

Evan Nappen 15:28

Yeah, go right ahead. I’m happy to.

John 15:29

So, this is the other thing I’m curious then, as to, let’s say I bombed on the questions, right? I had no,

no clue of any of this stuff, and I bomb, right?

Evan Nappen 15:41

Yeah.

John 15:42

Well, you know what I mean, I’m wondering what the next steps would have been.

Evan Nappen 15:46

Well, they still could say, well, they could deny your license and say, given these answers to these

questions, they would use what I call the all inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause, which is the denial

part of 2C:58-3, which says public health, safety, welfare based on character and temperament, and

that broad bullshit reason to deny anybody about anything. It’s often the one used to have the

institutionalized racism take effect, because it’s so broad. That’s the one that they can then say, oh,

well, we think he’s a danger to public health, safety, whatever that means. Then we end up having to

fight it in court to get your license. And that’s what’s abused, because that’s more subjective. It’s not an

objective thing, like, are you a convicted felon or not? Either you are or you’re not. Simple, right? But

this one is broad and can be abused, and, in fact, is abused. So, that’s where their unauthorized form

outside of state law that they would then make this claim, and that’s how they’ll try to deny folks when

they want to try to deny them when they don’t have anything actual to deny individuals and oppress

their Second Amendment rights. That’s what goes on. Okay, man, thanks again, and.

John 17:14

Thank you.

Evan Nappen 17:14

Speaking of, thank you, man. Speaking of one of oppression, Teddy, why don’t you tell us about your

discovery in Press Checks? Your press checks?

Teddy Nappen 17:27

Oh, first, I want to clarify, as we’ve gotten a lot of questions. Apparently a lot of our listeners don’t know

what a Press Check is.Page – 8 – of 18

Evan Nappen 17:36

Whoa, what is a Press Check, Teddy? Do Press Checks cost anything?

Teddy Nappen 17:42

No, Press Checks are free.

Evan Nappen 17:44

And what is a Press Check?

Teddy Nappen 17:45

Well, if you ever want to check to make sure that your firearm is loaded, you look down, you slowly pull

the slide back and see if there is a round chambered and there you go. That’s a Press Check.

Evan Nappen 17:57

And not only that, you can also push the front of the slide, carefully, and that will push the slide back

slightly. You can look and see if there’s a round in the chamber. The idea of a Press Check is to

confirm that your gun is loaded so it’s ready to fire if need be, or confirm it’s unloaded. And of course,

you’re looking to confirm that it’s completely unloaded. You want to pull the slide all the way back, dump

the mag, look down the barrel, and make sure it’s completely unloaded. But that’s what Press Checks

are for. It’s a way to do a quick check to see if your gun is loaded. Now, Teddy, your segment on the

show is called Press Checks and that’s because you are checking the press. What have you

discovered in your press checking this week?

Teddy Nappen 18:44

Well, I think we’re all very much overloaded on the amount of victories we’ve been getting thanks to

President Trump with all the great, great policies that he has enacted to help save our country. He is

warp speeding, hitting the ground running.

Evan Nappen 19:02

Every day I’m getting, I’m getting, stuffed with W’s here.

Teddy Nappen 19:06

Exactly.

Evan Nappen 19:06

Win, win, win. It’s fantastic.

Teddy Nappen 19:08

Well, there’s one “w” that got overlooked because, you know, it’s just been a giant wave of goodness.

One was the Office of Gun Violence Prevention has been shut down.

(https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/bidens-gun-violence-office-disappears-from-white-house-website/)Page – 9 – of 18

Evan Nappen 19:22

Oh, the gun rights oppression office of the senile sock puppet.

Teddy Nappen 19:26

Yes, the Ministry of Disarmament, if you will. But it’s one of those that is very much an overlooked

aspect of how damning that office became, and what.

Evan Nappen 19:41

How did that come about? What is this? Maybe you should tell everyone.

Teddy Nappen 19:45

I’m going to roll back to former President Joe Biden, respect the office, he and his cohorts had passed

with the bipartisan. When I say bipartisan, I mean Liz Cheney and Mitch McConnell. The Bipartisan

Safer Community Act. It was a laundry list of anti-gun bits and pieces, one of which included the

formation of the (White House) Office of Gun Violence Prevention, and they named their leader, Vice

President Kamala Harris, to lead the Federal Office of Gun Violence Prevention, as the Gun Czar.

Evan Nappen 20:28

But she did a lot of work there, as like she did in everything else, right? She was incredibly effective,

very.

Teddy Nappen 20:35

Very effective. In actuality, the real leader was a woman named Stephanie Feldman, Biden’s aid or

geriatric nurse, if you will. Along with, and this was the more disgusting, they took two of the top anti-

gun group leaders, one being Communities Justice Action Fund, Greg Jackson, and EveryTown for

Gun Safety, you know, Bloomturds group run by Rob Wilcox, and named them unelected bureaucrats

running this office. And because of that, it gave them the pipeline to cause havoc on our rights under

the Biden administration. Just to give you an example from the insanity that they were pulling, going

down the list, one of the things is they were able to distribute over $200 million to different states to

fund the community violence intervention, which is just a nice way of saying that they laundered their

money to their anti-gun groups to get their anti-gun agendas passed in the States.

Teddy Nappen 20:58

And another bit, which you had brought up in the show prior. You remember when they were hitting all

the dealers with the ATF where, like, if you had,

Evan Nappen 21:56

Yeah, I’ve defended a number of dealers on that very thing, where they had zero tolerance. They gave

more tolerance to pharmacies and nuke plants than to a gun dealer. Making any type of minor

bureaucratic errorPage – 10 – of 18

Teddy Nappen 22:13

Correct. And one of the big leading pieces of the office, which they bragged about it, is that they helped

pass over 50 Executive Actions against gun violence, including their coordination with various federal

agencies like the ATF and telling them to have a zero tolerance policy on all FFLs. So, if you made one

clerical error, they would yank your license.

Evan Nappen 22:45

Yeah, Biden signed off on a number of Executive Orders, I’m sure, at their urging, and it created a lot of

problems. And that Bipartisan bill was a disaster, and it laid the groundwork for not only their zero

tolerance approach through this Office of Gun Rights Oppression, but also on the opposite side. They

removed the “for profit” for the definition of dealer. I mean the “livelihood”, “for livelihood” and only left

“for profit”. So, anybody who sold a gun for profit could be construed to be a dealer. They were

essentially trying to stop all sales by anybody, even just, you know, a sale to a friend or transfer to a

family member. Anything for profit. If in any way, you had a profit. That was it. And you didn’t even have

to complete the sale. Then they were requiring you to get an FFL. Requiring an FFL if you’re going to

have any gun moved for profit. So, on one hand, they’re requiring FFLs, and on the other hand, they’re

taking them away in a zero tolerance fashion. So, they had both those things running at the same time.

Crazy.

Teddy Nappen 24:14

What’s even more disgusting is their group, even their leader, Bragg saying, we stopped 800 rogue

dealers. In actuality, they just, you know, had a clerical error, and then yanked their license.

Evan Nappen 24:28

Right. Exactly.

Teddy Nappen 24:29

And it also, and this was the very disgusting part, is what they were helping the ATF, which, I mean,

look, they say they don’t keep the 4473s, but they were leading on building the billion records. You

know, they have their billion records that they keep of every transaction, and it was their way of

eventually setting up a national gun registry, which was the main goal with this office.

Evan Nappen 24:57

Right. I’m hopeful that President Trump will order that destroyed, and we may even see legislation

because they unlawfully recorded almost a billion gun records, in violation of federal law, by the way.

Teddy Nappen 25:14

Yeah, which is even worse. Because the office was communicating with other agencies, they were

talking with the Department of Treasury, who have access to all purchases. So, now you mix that in

with the registry and you could catalog every single purchase in the U.S. And you know the first step is

registration.Page – 11 – of 18

Evan Nappen 25:37

Now, you know, one of the other things Trump did in his Executive Orders was he signed an order

called “Defending W from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal

Government”. And what he’s mandated is that there’s only two sexes. Are you shocked about that,

Teddy? It’s male and female. Okay, that’s it. So, it has to be male or female in the Federal Government.

And any of the, any of the things that the federal government does, they define women, they define

men. And it is clear that there is nothing else other than male or female, okay?

Teddy Nappen 26:25

Well, I’ll give you a worse one.

Evan Nappen 26:26

Well, wait the impact of this, which is, you know, in terms of culture and everything we’ve been dealing

with on that issue. It has an impact that I don’t think has readily been talked about on firearms. Because

the 4473, the federal form that you fill out to purchase a firearm from a dealer, originally had male or

female on that form. Then after there was this cultural push by Biden to invent other gender identities

and this kind of thing, the spread of that went to various states where you could get a driver’s license

that said either male, female or non-binary. And the problem was, if you had a non-binary driver’s

license, you then could not buy a gun, because you had to have some type of government-issued photo

ID that had to identify your sex, and because it did not identify male or female, you couldn’t buy a gun.

So, they added non-binary to the form for those individuals, but guess what? Now individuals, when

they get rid of non-binary, which is part of this Executive Order that is only male or female, they will no

longer be able to buy a gun from a dealer. So, those individuals, if they want to exercise their Second

Amendment rights, are going to have to identify their biological sex and pick a sex, either be male or be

female, to purchase a gun, which is how it was before they added non-binary. But President Trump’s

order appears to state that that is no longer acceptable throughout the federal government.

Teddy Nappen 28:33

Yeah, it was actually kind of hilarious. There was an individual that there was this ploy that they were

trying to use where basically they would, “lose their ID”, and they would have to use their passport,

which the passport had the non-binary at the time. So, they tried to get the ID issued, and I think it was

in Florida where then DeSantis just issued, no, that just means your ID is invalid if you don’t have.

Evan Nappen 28:59

So, that took care of it. Huh?

Teddy Nappen 29:01

Exactly. It’s so stupid. And the last bit I want to get on for the office is, by the way, the money is still

allocated for the Office of Gun Violence Prevention under the Trump administration, but the office is just

gone. So, now I think we need to take that money and create a new office, and I think we know what

we’re going to call that one, the Office of Gun Rights Protection.

Evan Nappen 29:30

Yeah, I like that.Page – 12 – of 18

Teddy Nappen 29:32

Do the opposite. Where we start there.

Evan Nappen 29:35

And their mission is to fight gun rights oppression, anywhere and everywhere. That sounds good.

Teddy Nappen 29:41

Anyone who’s rights are being trampled on by anti-gun laws or any form of anti-gun groups that are

attacking our rights. Any of the gun, any gun shows or anybody, or anything that could basically push

for the pro-Second Amendment, across the nation. That should be the office.

Evan Nappen 30:05

Yeah, imagine a government agency that’s focused on protecting a Constitutional right. Wouldn’t that

be refreshing? That sounds good.

Evan Nappen 30:16

Well, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. So, WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood,

New Jersey. It’s where I shoot, where Teddy shoots, and my family shoots. It&