Freely Given

During this special Christmas episode, Gretchen and Katie talk about making preparations, handling Christmas stress, the joy of anticipation, and most importantly, celebrating the God who keeps his promises. The article: Dawning of a New Light Support 1517

We are excited to have one of Gretchen's pastors, Rev. Dale Hexum, on this episode to talk more about sermons. We ask him about the preaching philosophy he works within, and what to look for in a sermon. We discuss the differences between online church, and sitting under the preaching of your specific pastor. Of course, we bring up law and gospel, and why they have a place in his sermons, as well as the difference between "practical preaching," and "proclamation preaching." Support the ministry of 1517

We kept Rev. Tim Koch on for one more episode, as we expand the conversation from "what makes a sermon" from last week, to some of the struggles with both pastors and parishioners. What makes a church feel like "home" and what happens when a pastor you love takes a call someplace else? What happens when you move away, and have to find a new church, and struggle with finding a church as good as your last one? We talk a bit about the constant struggle with the cult of personalities, the non-spiritual gifts of pastors, and even when either pastors or parishioners move on or pass away, it's easy to get stuck in the pitfall we all fall into of nostalgia. Nostalgia can be different than remembrance, because remembrance of how God has been faithful should be played over and over again in the church. But nostalgia is longing for what used to be. This conversation is important because when we go to church for the wrong reasons, when that reason is no longer there, we lose our bearings. Understanding our purpose in gathering around Christ, and our purpose in mission can help us find clarity as we try again that patient process of church becoming family. Support the ministry of 1517

In a world where sermons can be downloaded from any church at the touch of a button, it's easy to follow "celebrity pastors" pastors who are outside your denomination, pastors who don't even know you. There are books and journals dedicated to theories of what makes a good sermon. What makes a sermon difference than a "Ted Talk" or motivational speaker? Katie and Gretchen decided to interview 2 different pastors on how they think about sermons, and this is the first interview with Rev. Tim Koch. Tim talks about thinking about sermons like food, and assessing what kinds of food we are taking in. Support the ministry of 1517

As we are continuing our "verses taken out of context" episodes, we are honored to have Rev. Bob Hiller, author of "Christ in the Straw" to help us understand James 2:26. This was a fun conversation, full of laughter, and giving a "rat's patoot" about our neighbor. Is faith without works dead? Who are our works for? If this passage has ever haunted you, or if you've struggled to reconcile the words of Paul, and the words of James, this episode is for you. Bob Hiller's book on James "Christ in the Straw" Support 1517

We are discussing "I can do all things through Christ" in context of the rest of the passage, and then we discuss the story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac (rather... not sacrificing him) and whether or not Christians are called to sacrifice. Is that what this passage is talking about? Both these passages talk about faith, the purpose of faith, the testing of faith, and most importantly, the object of our faith. These commonly out of context passages, actually point to Christ. Support 1517

Gretchen and Katie start to tackle out of context verses. These verses are commonly quoted, whether they are from signs, devotionals, motivational talks, or conversation, but without the context that makes sense of them. This episode includes Psalm 46:10 (Be still and know that I am God) as well as Revelation 3:16 (So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.) Ever wonder how to be still, or not be a lukewarm Christian? We look at the context of these verses to shed some light, and point to Christ. Be Still Article Lukewarm Article by Philip Bartelt

There has been a lot of calls to fear lately in our world. As alarming things happen in every news cycle, and fear feels like the responsible thing to do, Katie and Gretchen talk about how the opposite of fear isn't apathy, it's hope. They talk about how the world often uses fear as a common motivator, and yet fear can often cause us to freeze, or feel overwhelmed by a problem that is too big for us. Our hope is in Christ. Our vocation is often small, and is full of hope. We Katie's article on grief and hope Chad Bird's Chicken Little FB Post Support 1517

Gretchen and Katie have been on the road, in the midst of harvest, and have collected the best highlights of the recent 1517 conference in Las Vegas. In this episode, they talk about the conference on assurance that they recently attended, and what impacted them the most. Highlights from speakers like Steve Paulson, Chad Bird, Flame, Michael Berg, and Scott Keith, as well as music that just sinks down deep into your soul. 1517 Music on Spotify Micheal Berg's book on Vocation Scott Keith's books 2022 HWSS San Diego Conference Support 1517

In a culture that talks about making everything bigger, better, stronger, and more streamlined, it's easy for the church to get sucked into that discussion. As we think about that discussion, we wanted to give a down home look at what is the purpose or function of the church? In our quest for growth, it's essential that we don't lose sight of our purpose. Is church for believers or unbelievers? Is it a community center and social club? Keeping the gospel central in ministry gives us a lot of freedom, but also a lot to think about. Support the ministry of 1517.

We had 2 different listeners ask us: what does mortification of sin, also known as mortification of the flesh look like? In this episode, we talk about where this term came from, and what it means. More importantly, we talk about the difference between mortification of sin, and self-discipline, as they belong in 2 different theological categories. One is part of our justification/sanctification, and one is part of our vocation. Why does it matter what categories we put these things in? We circle back to our theology and mental health discussion, and how putting these things in the incorrect theological categories can cause us to live out our faith in "fight or flight mode," always wondering if we are doing "enough" to please God, and questioning if what he did was enough without our help. Sound theology is a means for peace. Notes: Thinking Fellows Episode, where at the end, they talk about the conversation we had off air on mortification of sin. Vocation by Michael Berg Here We Still Stand Conference in Las Vegas (coming up soon!) Support 1517.

It's easy to look at our faith through an emotional lens. Are you on an emotional high, or an emotional low? Are you on a mountaintop, or are things silent in the valley? What happens to your faith when you aren't "feeling it." Gretchen and Katie talk a little bit about the new and fresh love someone feels about their spouse, compared to the depth one sees in the low parts, when you realize they will stick with you no matter what. On the other side, what happens when we look at our faith through a logical lens, defining it by how much we are able to understand or articulate? Do the academics have more faith than a child? What it comes down to is, are we looking outside of us, to see the value and health of our faith, or are we looking within, to ourselves, to determine the value and health of our faith. Emotions and logic are both good, and give us helpful information, but they aren't the determining factors, because our faith comes from Christ--not us. We look to him for our salvation, and our growth, not ourselves. Join us to talk about assurance at the Here We Still Stand conference in Las Vegas. Support the ministry of 1517. Any questions? Send us an email freelygiven @ 1517.org

In this episode Gretchen and Katie get to as Kelsi Klembara about the practical implications of giving assurance. To put it another way, what is the fruit of giving assurance? Part of the beauty of pointing people to the sufficiency of Christ in this way is the lack of manipulation. It offers freedom to the listener. They also talk about the particulars of assurance. It's not for the general or vague "everyone" but there is a "for-you-ness" they explain. It directed personally. They talk about the tangible means, earthy means God uses to point to our assurance outside of us. God uses means to comfort us, not just these abstract ideas, but sensory means. God is not surprised by doubt, and has anticipated the need to assure us with means outside of us. This is such a comfort! Kelsi also talks about the use of the law in assurance, and how our assurance affects our relationship with others. To get tickets on our whole conference on assurance, there's still time! Visit the Here We Still Stand Regional Conference webpage to register. Support the ministry of 1517

In this episode, we interview one of our favorite people: Kelsi Klembara, editor of the 1517 website. Kelsi has done a lot of research on the topic of assurance of our salvation from both a theological and historical point of view, and we had some questions for her. This fascinating conversation talks about our resistance to giving or receiving assurance, and how we often assume that crisis of assurance of faith looks like doubts, when sometimes it manifests itself through pride. We also talk about how in seasons of church history, we swing between wanting to find assurance through emotional connection to God, or through logical/rational connections. We also talk about how we often try to itemize our assurance into categories of justification-assurance and sanctification-assurance, not understanding the full range of assurance we are freely given. We've been wanting to have Kelsi on since pretty much the beginning of this podcast. We are thrilled to have her with us in this episode. Come join us for a whole 1517 CONFERENCE on the topic of assurance in Las Vegas next month. Register HERE. Support the ministry of 1517.

We finish up our conversation with Heidi Goehmann on the relationship between mental health and theology. Our discussion touches upon shame, where it comes from, and how we deal with it. She also brings up how our attachment issues can have an effect on our hermeneutics (how we study the Bible) as we can unconsciously be reading into passages through the lens of our attachments or lack thereof. You can find more resources from Heidi on her website: www.heidigoehmann.com Please also support the ministry of 1517, as they produce podcasts like ours, as well as online courses, articles, and books, as resources for churches to use.

It has been 1 year since Katie and Gretchen started the Freely Given podcast. They take some time to reflect on the year. They back up and talk about how they met, their friendship and how it grew, their favorite episodes, and some of the feedback they've had. Lots of the feedback they've had has to do with theology and its impact on personal relationships, so they talk about that a bit, and of course, a short tangent on the harm of legalism. This was a very fun episode. Support the ministry of 1517

We are thrilled to have Heidi Goehmann, author, deaconess, and mental health provider talk about the intersection of theology and mental health. We have a great conversation about how we view our mental health, "modern gnostics," understanding the practical side of theology, and how theological words can sometimes have baggage. Support 1517 here!

In this episode we talk about who does what in repentance. It can be easy to put ourselves in the driver's seat of someone else's repentance. But every time we do that, we don't produce repentance, we produce manipulation. So how do we get people to repent, or at least change their behavior? In this episode Gretchen and Katie talk about how sin is a stress on relationships, and in our effort to relieve that stress and pain, we often take on the role of the Holy Spirit in unhealthy ways. So how does the Holy Spirit work, and what is our role? Listen in to today's episode. Support 1517 Join us for Here We Still Stand in Las Vegas

What is repentance, and how do we get it, or do it? In this episode, Gretchen and Katie talk about some common questions about repentance. How do you know if someone has repented enough? How do you know if you have repented enough? Where do we get repentance? What it comes down to is: what comes first, repentance or grace? They talk about how this doctrine deeply impacts how we evangelize and interact with non-Christians, as we can easily think, if they can just turn away from their bad deeds, it will be so much easier for them to become Christians--when in fact, that is not salvation by grace, that is salvation by works. This episode in repentance gets down to the practical/logistical questions that impact our daily relationships with others. Come join us at Here We Still Stand regional conference in Las Vegas! Support 1517

Christian community is often described as the activity and programs going on at the church. Many people will join a church for the sake of having a tight knit community. But what does Christian community mean? Katie and Gretchen discuss the book "Life Together" by Dietrich Bonhoeffer, about the what it means to be a Christian community. What does it mean to be a group of diverse individuals who come together under the banner of grace? Bonhoeffer has a lot of great things to say about that.

As they end their conversation on baptism, Gretchen and Katie talk about how it connects with assurance. They talk about fears people have in emphasizing the assurance we have in Christ. Can you emphasize grace too much? Is the chance of being legalistic a necessary evil of holiness? How does assurance change us, free us, and how does that change how we live? They talk about Jesus' story of the 2 brothers, how it's easy for people doing all the right things, and living moral lives to feel that if grace is given lavishly, then they somehow "missed out." They talk about forgiveness for the sin of self-righteousness and self-justification, and how exactly we remember our baptism daily. Support 1517 Join Gretchen and Katie in Las Vegas this October

Continuing on our baptism discussion, and the power of God's Word, through physical means, Katie and Gretchen walk through their catechisms and think about the common struggles with the doctrine of baptism. They discuss the consistent theme of washing throughout the Old and New Testament, and the beautiful picture of grace given to the helpless that is seen at every baptism. Support 1517

In this episode, Gretchen and Katie tackle a question from a listener about baptism. What do we believe? What does it mean? What does it do? So, they each brought out their catechisms, and are going to walk through some basic points. In this episode, they talk about their personal history with baptism, (and maybe even wrestling with it?) They also compare and contrast their denominations editions of Luther's Small Catechisms, and sprinkling vs immersion. This is the beginning of a fun conversation, full of laughter, clarification, and lots of grace. Katie's article cited: Girl, When You Wash Your Face, Remember Your Baptism Support 1517

In this episode, Katie and Gretchen attempt to define 2 separate terms: Christian freedom and American freedom. While the term "freedom" is often used interchangeably between the 2 kingdoms, they have different roles. There are many similarities and even trying to define religious freedom and Christian freedom is often difficult as many people use the terms interchangeably. The main question that it comes down to is: do Christians living under persecution in their country still have freedom in Christ, even though they don't have religious freedom? Freedom in Christ is something that no government or outside source can touch, and that is the difference. They also talk a bit about how we honor "heroes" whether military heroes, or Christian heroes. But as they attempt to define all of these terms, they wrestle through how both types of freedoms are both good--just different. It's when we start seeing them as the same when trouble starts. Support the ministry of 1517

It's Gretchen's turn to talk about books that have been influential on her life. This puts Gretchen and Katie on a couple of tangents about reading outside of your denominational tradition, and interacting with ideas that you disagree with in order to shape and develop your thinking. This episode also reveals Katie's role in Gretchen's life to prevent her writing from getting "too Ann Voskamp-y." From catechisms, church history, to Lutheran spirituality, studies on the Holy Spirit and of course GRACE, this episode covers a range of topics.

We are talking about books that have shaped our faith, and we come back to again, and again, and again. Time to load up your summer reading plan, because we have some good ones. Katie is going first in this episode to share her book stack of faith-shaping books. From the catechism, to books on vocation, and theology of the cross, you're in for some rich discussions. Support the ministry of 1517

We are answering some more listener questions this week, and both questions we answer today revolve around discontent with the church. The first question is: do I have to go to a "real" church, or can I get together with just my family, or just a small group of my friends? What if I want to stay with online church? Gretchen and Katie talk about meeting together, the importance of diversity, and how cults start. The second question is: at what point should I leave a church and find a new church? This question centered around the problem of not getting anything out of the preaching. We break this question down a couple of different ways, and talk about when to leave, and when to stay. Support 1517 with your donation today

In this episode we are answering a question sent into us, about when it's ok to say "no" to being pulled into serving in a ministry. We talk about how we don't always "feel like" being involved, and also manipulation, and the "savior complex" we slip into so easily. We talk about the need rest, training in the next generation, and how our theology impacts how we approach some of the more practical aspects of ministry. The longer we are involved in ministry, the more we realize the Holy Spirit can actually be trusted to do what he says he will do. The earlier episode we referenced on classical education in the Church: Truth, Connection, and Growth with Bible Studies Help support the 1517 podcast network

In this extra special episode, we get to sit down and talk with Dr. Scott Keith, executive director of 1517, and author of "Being Dad: Father of a Picture of God's Grace." This was a great conversation about the purpose of the law in parenting, and the purpose of the gospel when it comes to raising kids. We talked about the newer term of grace-based parenting, how having no law means that everything is law, having big fences, and how seeing the personhood of children changes our approach. Also, this week is the 3rd anniversary of the 1517 podcast network and we are celebrating the ministry the various podcasts in the 1517 podcast network by launching a brand new podcast: A Field Guide to the Bible. This series will provide a broad overview of the entire Bible, especially designed for those who are brand new to the Bible or those who want to review the grand narrative of redemption. We would like to invite you to celebrate with us, by making a donation to this network that brings the message of Christ to so many. You can make a donation of any amount here: www.1517.org/celebrate

After talking about Bible studies, and various ministries, and even our rural churches, Gretchen and Katie get down to the root question underlying all of those episodes: what are we here for? What is the purpose of the church? What message are we to be teaching to the world and to those around us? It may seem obvious: we are here to proclaim that Christ has been crucified for the forgiveness of sins. That is the gospel. But we easily get distracted from this message, and they unpack the root of those distractions. They also quote Rod Rosenbladt to the extent that they end the podcast in tears. Listen to the end. Support the ministry of 1517

Oftentimes when we are serving in ministry, we brainstorm outreach and growth. But what does growth look like when you live in a rural setting? What does growth look like when things remain small? This conversation goes deeper than just location of ministry, and is an opportunity to step back and consider: what are we, as the church, here for, and what is that supposed to look like? Gretchen's Book "Ragged: Spiritual Disciplines for the Spiritually Exhausted" is now available. 1517 event in Fergus Falls Support 1517

What is it mean to be blessed? What does it mean to bless others? In this episode, we talk about the power of words, and the power of the gospel given through words. The term "blessed" can take on many meanings in our culture, but the Bible uses that term to remind us of the works of God. Katie references: Pastoring by Blessing by John Kleinig Gretchen's book comes out in a few days! Order here: "Ragged: Spiritual Disciplines for the Spiritually Exhausted" Join us in Minnesota for the "Life Lived in Christ" one day event. Support the ministry of 1517.

We all pray for love. We all desire peace. We all want to have joy. It's that patience that looks suspicious. We all know the joke about how praying for patience is dangerous, because God answers that prayer with lots of opportunities to develop it. Is that what the Bible says about patience, though? In this episode Gretchen and Katie go deep as they talk about how hope and patience are linked together, how we are given patience, and how the 3 persons of the Trinity fit into all of this. What if patience was not about working our muscles, and more about God? Register for the 1517 event in Minnesota Support 1517 podcasts

How does one share the gospel on social media? Is there a way to communicate the love of God in a medium that thrives on uproar and misinformation? In this episode, Gretchen and Katie talk about the lives touched, and the opportunities for speaking truth and making relationships with others online. This is the ending to the conversation in the last episode: "Loving Your Neighbor Online." Katie's Article, "What Do I Have to Give?" Our Freely Given FB group Support 1517

As believers, we have the freedom to write off social media completely, or interact with others online. A lot of that decision has to do with vocation (or calling), and loving your neighbor well. In this episode Katie and Gretchen talk about the benefits and limitations of being a Christian who is online, and strategies they consider when, why, and how they interact with others. Here We Still Stand Conference Support 1517

Women's Bible studies...men's Bible studies, mixed Bible studies. While some avoid women's Bible studies because they think that they're too flowery and shallow, others feel more comfortable sharing and speaking up when it's only one gender there. In this episode Katie and Gretchen talk about the pros and cons of each, and why men and women need fellowship within the church, and we also have to provide safe and comfortable spaces for people to ask the hard questions. Support 1517

Do you feel bad when you're not very joyful? What do you do with grief that lingers? Can anger be righteous? Gretchen and Katie talk about the guilt and shame that often gets put on our emotions, and discusses if how we feel makes us more or less righteous. We often lie about our emotions so they appear more holy, or we use our emotions as an excuse to sin against our neighbor. The question then becomes, what do we do when our emotions aren't what we want them to be? We can easily turn the state of our emotions into a balancing act, instead of something that we bring to God. When it comes down to it, it's about embracing both truth and love. Support 1517 Pre-Order Gretchen's book: Ragged: Spiritual Disciplines for the Spiritually Exhausted

What does it mean to do everything for the glory of God? Oftentimes we take this verse out of context, and use it to pressure ourselves to be the best at something, or to dedicate our whole lives to something. This gets very difficult when we start talking about vocation, rest, or wrestling through failures. Putting this verse in context, Gretchen and Katie talk about understanding our inheritance, and how once again, God gets all the glory. Links mentioned: Thinking Fellows episode 1517 Podcasts Support 1517

What do you do when you doubt? What happens when people or churches who have lead you to faith have betrayed you? What is deconstruction anyway? In this episode, Gretchen and Katie talk about this buzz word "deconstruction" and the various definitions it has. They also talk about how our faith is constantly being "detangled" from ideals in this world, whether it be politics, faith in people or systems, which all disappoint. They discuss how to minister to someone who is doubting, as well as speak comfort those who might be going through this. This packed episode is a bit longer than usual, but worth the time. Resources mentioned: Christianity in America Pre-order Ragged: Spiritual Disciplines for the Spiritually Exhausted Support the ministry of 1517

The heaviness of being lonely and weary has fallen on the church collectively in the last year. But for many people, this isn't anything new. Many go through seasons, or even huge chunks of their lives living on the outskirts, and told to try harder. Katie and Gretchen talk about bad church basement coffee, the strength that comes from being together, and ponder where we go from here. Pre-order Gretchen's new book: Ragged: Spiritual Disciplines for the Spiritually Exhausted Support 1517

Gretchen and Katie talk through what can sometimes feel like opposing needs: studying the Bible deeply, and fellowshipping with one another. Endless prayer requests, generational gaps within the group, MLMs being sold within the group, and fallen expectations are all discussed in this packed episode. The big overarching question we must ask: what is the goal of meeting together, and are we communicating that well to those coming? Are we giving those in our group sound theology, or are we just forming a social club? Tune in to hear our thoughts on all this. Resources mentioned: Luther biography mentioned Gospel Mentoring Pre-order Gretchen's book, Ragged: Spiritual Disciplines for the Spiritually Exhausted Support 1517

Gretchen and Katie continue talking through leading or being a part of Bible studies. First, they talk about making it a safe place to disagree. While some studies have the dynamic of no one talking, for fear of saying something wrong, it's a good goal to cultivate an environment where people can sort through questions and say something wrong, and be able to process through what the Bible teaches. The key to this is asking good questions, and loving people well. They also talk about avoiding using cliche's and explaining Biblical concepts in your own words and through story as a means of learning. They also have lots of thoughts on Bible study homework. Is it fruitful to give it out? Is this an accountability group? What happens if someone comes to Bible study unprepared? Here We Still Stand Regional Event in Arkansas Support 1517

Whether you lead Bible studies, attend Bible studies, or are thinking about joining a Bible study, you will find something helpful in this episode. Katie and Gretchen talk about the awkward thing we are all afraid of: theological arguments, and offending people. Are they avoidable? They also talk about the comfort and freedom in the fact that the Holy Spirit is the one directing people's hearts. You don't have to change people's minds, or win arguments. Teaching the Bible means that you get to witness God himself at work in the hearts and minds of others, and that is a beautiful thing. Register for Here We Still Stand Regional Event in Arkansas Support 1517

In this episode, Gretchen and Katie talk about how we learn, and what to do when people in a Bible study are all in different places of Biblical knowledge. Gretchen explains how she approaches teaching a group with the classical method, where three stages of learning get repeated over and over as our brains make new connections. These three stages are called the "trivium" and the stages are: grammar, logic, and rhetoric, or as Gretchen calls them: truth, connection, and growth. For reference, the "5 Common Topics" of questions mentioned for the connection phase are: -Definition -Comparison -Relationship (Cause and Effect) -Circumstances -Testimony/Authority (what is the source) While one stage can be done by yourself, (just sitting and reading your Bible on your own) the other two stages are done within community of other people. Showing the design of God placing us within a church, we can see how Bible reading isn't just for our own edification, but for the edification of others. They also talk about their love for Bible study curriculum, but what is actually necessary. Support 1517

One of the last questions given to Gretchen and Katie was about Bible study recommendations. This was a perfect transition episode into our next series as we go deep into the topic of Bible studies. Are you leading Bible studies? Are you in a Bible study? Do you trepidation or nervousness when studying the Bible? With rising excitement of this topic, the girls talk about Bible study practices, and things to look for when looking for a Bible study. Here We Still Stand Regional Event Katie's Galatians Bible Study: Forgiven Therefore Free Martin Luther biography book Nancie Guthrie 40 Minutes in the Old Testament 30 Minutes in the New Testament Seamless by Angie Heidi Goehmann and Katie Koplin "He Leads" Altogether Beautiful Crossway Bible Journals Free 1517 Courses: Christ in the Old Testament Theology of the Augsburg Confession Support 1517

In this episode as Gretchen and Katie pause to answer a few questions from listeners. Much of the episode is talking about what books they have been reading from theological topics to fiction, and even theology within fiction. But they also answer the question whether or not they have ever changed a theological position, and questions about rural life. Resources Mentioned: Gentle and Lowly Grace Upon Grace The Divine Embrace Walking the Labyrinth Hannah Coulter Jayber Crow Virgil Wander Piranesi 'Til We Have Faces Echo Island Luther's Commentary on Galatians 30 Minutes in the NT on Galatians Martin Luther and the Enduring Word of God Support 1517

Should we set goals like reading our Bible in a year, or working on our sanctification? It's that time of year when we all think about new year, new us, new goals. Rather than throwing any sort of goal planning out the window, in any part of our life, Gretchen and Katie talk about putting goals in their proper place, and not looking to them to justify or sanctify us. They talk a bit about their goals for the year, how they use goal planning in their lives, and why they recommend writing goals in pencil. Links mentioned: Gretchen's book pre-order Ragged: Spiritual Disciplines for the Spiritually Exhausted Luther's Commentary on Galatians CLB Forge Podcast Gentle and Lowly

In this 2nd episode in the 2-part discussion on marriage, Katie and Gretchen discuss forgiveness in marriage. Where does it come from? What does it mean? What doesn't it mean? While both comforting and painful, forgiveness in marriage comes from outside of us, for us. They also talk a bit about divorce, both seeking to prevent divorce, and putting divorce in its proper place. Divorce does not shake our salvation or make us lesser Christians. The guys are there too for this one, but let's be honest, Katie and Gretchen had things to say, drawn from their years in women's ministry. Support to 1517

In this episode, we bring on Katie's husband, Dallas, and Gretchen's husband, Knut, as we start talk about marriage and how poor theology can lead to unhealthy expectations. First each couple talks a bit about how they met, and their early expectations of marriage. They talk a bit about the difference between a husband being the head of the home and the husband being the priest of the home, and why the distinction is important when it comes to how a wife views her access to God. Dallas talks about his 60/40 rule and we address our tendencies to view our spouses as a project to fix. Near the end we introduce the idea of unconditional forgiveness which we will dig into further in the next episode.

Gretchen and Katie wrap up their conversation on parenting, otherwise known as "calling a thing what it is." They talk about confession and absolution in the home and standing back when we try to take over the Holy Spirit's role. When our kids face failures, they will either give up, or beat themselves into self-righteous Pharisees, and it's important to teach them how to deal with failure. They talk about teaching kids that their value and peace comes not from the world, or their works, but from Christ and Christ alone. Katie's 1517 article Resilient Kids Foot story in episode "From Guilt to Confession" Thinking Fellows episode: Repent!