164 – How to be a Happy & Profitable Live Performer – with Robonzo of The Unstarving Musician

Do you wish you could play better gigs? Do you want to engage in the type of projects and work that will leave you feeling happy and fulfilled? In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I pass the mic with Robonzo of The Unstarving Musician, who’s got a podcast and a book of his own. He shares how he was able to build a profitable live performance career and how he helps other musicians do the same. Podcast Highlights: 00:34 – The podcasting journey 01:39 – How did you get started with The Unstarving Musician? 04:59 – The value of subbing 08:20 – Being a good hang 09:18 – How can musicians better leverage live performance? 12:34 – Having too many lines in the water 15:57 – Taking care of yourself 17:41 – Depression in the music industry/success doesn’t make you happy 20:44 – Who do you know that isn’t a starving musician? 24:48 – The Music Entrepreneur Code 25:49 – Why did you get into podcasting? 31:14 – Current social media marketing trends 36:19 – Making new music 37:52 – Why did you write a book and what impact has it had? 42:11 – Are there any books that have helped you on your journey? 43:49 – Wrap up Transcription: David Andrew Wiebe: Today I'm chatting with host of The Unstarving Musician Podcast, Robonzo. How are you today, Robonzo? Robonzo: I'm great. That was like one of the smoothest intros ever because as we were just saying pre-episode, we've just been chitchatting, ice breaking. I love it. I'm doing great. Thank you. DA: Awesome. Yeah, we just been chatting away. I don't know how many times I've said the intro like that now but I guess something people wouldn't know necessarily is I have been podcasting since 2009 with the David Andrew Wiebe Podcast, which quickly turned into David Andrew Wiebe Interviews, a music business podcast, which then became DAWCast: Music Entrepreneurship. And then, when I realized that nobody understood the cleverness behind the name of DAWCast: Music Entrepreneurship, I temporarily quit, and then reboot it. And that's The New Music Industry Podcast, which is also the namesake of my book. But it's been an awesome and fun journey. We'll be getting into that too because you're also a podcaster. Your website makes it fairly clear that you're passionate about helping musicians, especially in the area of live performance. So, where does that passion come from? How did you get started in the space? Robonzo: Yeah, that's where I started. I am a lifelong gigging musician, drummer, and singer. I recently confessed in another conversation with the podcast that I years ago used to play guitar and just stopped and picked that back up because I think it's from talking to so many songwriters. I'm like, “Wow, I'd like to write some songs.” So, I picked that up as well. But it did come from gigging a lot and being very proficient at it in terms of being… I was fond of saying, you know, when I was in the markets, where there are the opportunities that I could gig at will, you know, when and where I wanted to and get paid. I guess, you know, the story I usually tell is one December, a while back, I realized my gig calendar had one or more gigs per month in the coming year. I was like, “Oh, that's pretty cool. I should maybe share that with some people.” Eventually, it drove me to write a book called The Unstarving Musician’s Guide to getting paid gigs. Once that was done, maybe during the process, I thought, “What can I do to make this a little bigger?” Because if this does help musicians, surely there's, you know, I can take it to a broader audience over time. Though, from talking to a number of songwriters, musicians, industry people, content creators that are in the music space, and learning all these other things that we're able to share, I'm able to share, you know, even outside the podcast. So, my new thing I'm fond of saying is, “I feel like a curator of you know, expertise, mistakes, and new trends that independent musicians want to use.” So that's how it started. DA: What kind of gigs were you playing at the time? Robonzo: I have always been predominantly like a club, private events, winery type of gig person. There are the occasional things that I consider a little unusual like playing at a Google corporate event or in a wedding occasionally. So, just getting out and gigging with rock bands, pop bands, dance bands, occasionally filling in for other types of genres. And just for me, not every musician as you know, is of this ilk. But for me, I put myself out there to be a sub whenever possible to grow my network as a musician. So, just put myself out there and that started happening more and more. And before I know it, I have wonderful opportunities to work with four or five bands in any given quarter. A lot of them are cover bands and then some original artists. So that's predominantly what I was doing. DA: Yeah, I think subbing is probably underrated. I used to do that quite a bit as a guitar teacher. And honestly, some of the most fruitful times as a guitar teacher were when I was subbing for a group of teachers who are working at the same store, Long & McQuade, up here in Canada. It was probably some of the best pay scale I've seen for teaching. So, I'm kind of glad to be out of the teaching space at this point, but I remember those being really good pay days. Robonzo: Yeah, it's a blast. And, you know, if you're putting in your best, it's so fun to perform with a group of new musicians rehearsed and rehearsed. And, you know, they generally make you feel like a superstar. If you just go and make them look good, that's a lot of fun. DA: That's so true. Yeah. And that's a really great tip too, is to be mindful of the musicians you're playing with and then complimenting them. Robonzo: Totally. You know what? You also reminded me, I have a good friend who's got this monster of a band called The House Rockers. Once upon a time they were the Silicon Valley House Rockers which I almost said, but the House Rockers are a nine-piece band. The guy's a huge Bruce Springsteen fan. And I don't think they do any original music, but they are a working musician’s band. Many of the guys were full time musicians, not all of them. So, some of those guys sub quite a bit. And in fact, I got to play with one of them on a couple of his side projects. But anyway, back to my friend who leads the band, he really doesn't like it because he wants these guys to be available always, 100% of the time. And he's pretty good. I mean, what he's producing for his band and the musicians that he’s playing with is pretty special. The pay day is always good, and they really enjoy it. So, for the most part, they're probably 99% available, but there's the occasion where they're like, “Dang, you know, I can't do it. I got myself put on this other thing.” He really gets a little… I imagine he gets a little tense around the shoulders when I talk about subbing. DA: I mean that is the life of a session musician, though, right? If you don't have your own band, or if you're just the kind of artists that everybody wants on their record or at their live show, I mean, that's the life. That's the way it is. Robonzo: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, to state the obvious, on top of being a good player, and a conscientious player and, you know, listening to the musicians around you at all moments, being a nice, you know, a nice guy or a nice gal, to those that you work with. And beyond that, just like doing this personal inventory, or whatever we call it these days to make sure that we are because I have my moments where I'm not always the nicest guy or I get, you know, get my buttons pushed and say things I wish I wouldn't have but anyway to just always be mindful of that too. That, to me, you know, just the effort of trying to treat everyone like rock stars and being appreciative and having gratitude for all the opportunities took me so far. Just with gigging and so you know. I mean that transcends into everything we do, right? DA: Yeah. I've had Matt star on the show. I remember him talking about the fact that it was so weird sort of like introducing himself to Ace Freely, or like Mr. Big, or whoever it was, and hobnobbing with them and trying to build that relationship so that he could ultimately get the gig. He's like, it's not really the intention. The intention, first and foremost, was to build that good strong connection and relationship. But I think it's still necessary, right? No matter how awkward or uncomfortable it feels, you just got to be a good hang and be around these people if you want the gig. Robonzo: Yeah. I think it was my very first or second interview for the podcast was a friend from Texas who's been a working musician has done some really cool stuff over the years. One of the things he talked a lot about was, and he used that word, he’s from spending time in Nashville - the hang. He said it's all about the hang and relationships. DA: Yeah, exactly. It really is. What other kind of tips are you sharing with musicians to help them improve their gigging income? Robonzo: Outside of improving that, but it is related. Actually, it's very related, is to make sure that whatever projects you're working in, that you're happy with. If they're not creating joy, helping you create or realize joy in making the music that you're making, to just take a step back and think about how you can rectify that. Sometimes that means changing the situation. So that's a big one because you know. And I share this one lately because I've kind of experienced this in two facets of my life where I was doing something a little longer than I should have. But, you know, eventually, either by my own doing or by external forces, I am presented with the opportunity for things to change. And lo and behold, when you're doing things that you really enjoy,