142 – How to Succeed as a Songwriter – with Award-Winning Singer-Songwriter & Producer Troy Kokol

Sometimes, it might seem like building a music career is all about the hustle. But sometimes, you just need to let the opportunities come to you. In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I interview award-winning Canadian singer-songwriter Troy Kokol, who shares his journey as a songwriter and how he’s been able to make songwriting his full-time gig. Download the PDF Transcription Podcast Highlights: 00:34 – Who is Troy Kokol? 03:00 – Revenue streams you can create with songwriting 05:10 – How do you get into writing songs for others? 07:36 – When opportunities come to you (and not the other way around) 10:16 – Do you have a team helping you? 11:51 – How to write hits and become a professional songwriter 17:52 – Being prolific vs. being perfectionist 19:58 – Is writer’s block real? 22:56 – Getting passed analysis paralysis and staying true to yourself 24:07 – What are your thoughts on the Calgary music scene? 28:05 – Grants and funding for musicians 29:31 – What is Calgary Songsmiths? 33:21 – Concluding thoughts Transcription: D.A.: Today we’re chatting with award-winning Candian singer, songwriter, and producer, Troy Kokol. How are you today Troy? Troy: Doing good. Doing very good, David. D.A.: Awesome. Thanks for joining me. I was trying to learn a little bit about you for this conversation but you're a bit of a mystery online, so I would love for you to take a moment to share about your background, who you are, and what you're up to. Troy: Yeah. So, I started late in the business. I didn't pay my dues like everybody else. I had a job and was just going about my life, and we had a fortunate break with songwriting. It's a super long story but ultimately, what ended up happening was a song that we wrote was cut by a Canadian artist with a brand-new label, brand new artist, and it blew up. It did as good as a song could have in that type of situation. And so, all of a sudden, we were thrust from doing a day job thing to like, “Oh, okay. I guess we're songwriting now.” And so, that was about 10 years ago. A little over 10 years ago. And so, from there we just have evolved. It's evolved into songwriting. I started producing and then of course the more you start singing, the more you start doing your own stuff. Right now, what we do business wise is pretty broad. I'm an independent artist as well. I mix, and master, and produce, and record all my stuff myself but I also produce, mix, and master for other artists. And most of the stuff that we do and most of the things that we have had success with are in the country pop genre but I do work in folk as well with folk artists. It all feels new even though it's been 10 years. Like I say, I never suffered sleeping in the van down by the river. Nothing like that. I kind of have the best of both worlds. And so, yeah, I'm really enjoying it. And we make our home here in Calgary and we decided to do that a long time ago. We could have moved south and that was an option but we decided that Calgary was going to be the place where we’re going to set our roots and just do what we could from our home. And so, we've been really glad to do that. D.A.: That's awesome. It strikes me that there are a lot of opportunities in songwriting just from having talked to a few other people out there who are doing the same thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but sort of what I'm seeing is it actually offers quite a few different revenue streams, right? Because you could be writing songs for others and collecting royalties on that, but you could also be making your own music. And like you said, you're producing other people's music too. So, creating more opportunities for yourself really allows you to draw from a bit of a bigger pool, right? Troy:  That's right. I think the other part of it is that when we got in the business, it was a different world. And now, especially because of the digital era, a lot of people I feel think that digital era has crushed the music business and it certainly has for the large companies but I feel like the smaller independent artists, the independent labels, and you know even someone like myself, I mean because we can now… I mean I can do all of the things I need to do to make a record sound, you know, half decently pro and put it out. And so, I think as a songwriter, yeah, you're absolutely right, David. If you can write your own music and you can release that music, there are five major revenue streams you can draw on as a songwriter. And so, you can take advantage of that because you own the master, because you're paid for the recording, because you are the singer, because you are the songwriter. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of, you know. You're collecting pennies from all over the place but there's the more exposure and of course the better the songs are. I always tell artists it's so important to focus on the quality of your songs. Until that's ready, it's almost not really worth it to go busting down doors and making CDs quite yet. Performing, absolutely. But on the songwriting side of it, I think you just need to give yourself the opportunity to grow and to grow into something that other people can get into. It's so important to focus on the quality of your songs. Until that's ready, it's almost not worth it to go busting down doors and making CDs.Share on X D.A.: So, how do you get into writing songs for others? Is that a matter of like networking and getting to know people? Is it a matter of using certain tools online? Is it a combination thereof? Troy: Oh yeah, it's definitely a combination, but I would say most importantly for all of it is honing your craft and being good. And being okay with not being good for a while, and having that patience and persistence. I can honestly say and I tell people this all the time. The opportunities that have put money in my pocket have been almost exclusively when my phone rings. It's not when I'm trying to get a publishing deal or I'm trying to get a co-write with some big artist or I'm trying to you know, whatever it is, fulfill some ego thing that I've got. We're all artists and we all have that sort of… It's really hard to suppress that want to just like, “I should get a record deal, or I should do this, or I should song write for this person or that person.” But what I've found is that every time I tried to do that and take control of it, it's always failed but when I've had success is when I've just decided, “You know what? I'm going to do what I have control over and just try to write better songs.” Lo and behold, the more I did that and the more I focused on my own skills. You know what? The phone rings because you're actually… I think part of it is that you're proving yourself. You're able to prove to other people and you're not coming out of it with an attitude of desperation. People are coming to you because it's like, “Wow! Did you hear that song that David just sang? That's amazing. I'm going to go talk to that guy.” Because you spent the time to work on it. So, all of my opportunities have come that way. I never called… Like I write children songs for international educational company that's headquartered in Japan. I didn't call them and I didn't get that gig because I thought that's what I should do. I always wanted to write children songs but the funny thing was that it was through people that I knew. And, I feel like part of that work had to do with me just focusing on the things I had control over which was writing songs, you know playing out, releasing songs, and you know definitely meeting people. Networking is so important. D.A.: Yeah. I love that because there aren't too many people that are taking that sort of approach or attitude to things, like just working on your craft allows you to get better gigs, right? I have something similar going on in the sense that I've booked so few of my own gigs probably in the last five to 10 years. They get booked because of band leaders, because of acquaintances, or friends, or people I know, or other musicians to where when I do go and try to book my own gigs, it often fails and I don't get the gig. Troy: Yeah. I always say when your phone rings that's the opportunity you're ready for. My friends are sick of hearing this but I call the pie shop. You know, you have this amazing recipe because your grandma gave it to you, and you know you can make these amazing pies, and you take this recipe and you go out the street and you try to get people to buy this recipe from you and we're like “Man, are you crazy?” Like, “Go away.” Like, “I don't want your stupid recipe.” When your phone rings that's the opportunity you're ready for.Share on X But instead, if you take control over what you're able to do and maybe you rent a little corner place, and you get a little oven, and you start baking stuff. What happens? The smell goes out to the street. People are like, “Oh my God. What is that?” And you know you focus on. And maybe it starts small but then you start… you're always improving your apple pie. The more that you improve it, after awhile people start talking about it. It’s like, “Oh my God, have you ever been to that place? The pie is unbelievable.” And so, after awhile, your work, the work that you're trying to… the things you're trying to make happen just happen anyway. I think we as artists focus a lot, especially in the beginning, we focus a lot on outcomes which to me outcomes are like you know getting an award, getting a gig, getting an agent, getting a manager. And to me, what I have found in my experience with people that I know that have been signed with major labels even the little bit of success that we've had. I feel all of those things, those outcomes that people are wanting often are just byproducts of doing what you have control over, which is gigging when you can,